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caco0283
02-23-2010, 05:41 AM
I can't wait for this to happen...anyone else plan on trading?



Hollywood Stock Exchange is tentatively set to launch as a real-money commodity exchange April 20.

A spokesman said the exchange is "on track" to begin listing films' boxoffice projections for live trading from that date. HSX filed with the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission for approval as an active trading site in November 2008 and recently entered the final phase of regulatory review.

Since 1998, HSX has allowed just-for-fun traders to buy and sell valueless shares in Hollywood films based on forecasts of what the pics will ring up. Once launched, a new HSX site will list current and imminent movie releases with their projected four-week domestic grosses and allow exchange users to take long or short positions on the films.

A formal announcement about rules and guidelines for HSX users is expected closer to the launch. The exchange hopes to lure hobbyist investors as well as industry professionals, though the latter will be prohibited from improper insider activity.

For instance, distribution execs with access to early boxoffice data will be barred from making trades on the exchange after a film has opened. But film financiers will be allowed to invest in HSX an amount equal to a minority percentage of their total investment in a movie.

Investors wishing to participate in the exchange will buy "contracts" priced at one one-millionth of a film's projected boxoffice, with films to be listed on the exchange from the time productions are announced in the industry trade papers. Trading will begin six months before a movie's anticipated wide release.

HSX is owned by U.K.-based investment firm Cantor Fitzgerald.

"The number of people who visit movie theaters each year and form opinions about a film's success is in the tens of millions," Cantor Exchange president Richard Jaycobs said. "We believe that's the reason the public response to this product has been very positive."

Cantor Entertainment chief Andrew Wing said the exchange targets movie distributors, exhibitors, producers and other investors seeking "an unprecedented public market to create liquidity and hedge their daily business activities."

Until now, HSX revenue has come from industry ad sales and the sale of customer-use data to Hollywood marketing outfits.
Hollywood Stock Exchange set to launch
Targets April 20 to begin listing b.o. projections for live trading

By Carl DiOrio

Feb 23, 2010, 09:00 AM ET
Hollywood Stock Exchange is tentatively set to launch as a real-money commodity exchange April 20.

A spokesman said the exchange is "on track" to begin listing films' boxoffice projections for live trading from that date. HSX filed with the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission for approval as an active trading site in November 2008 and recently entered the final phase of regulatory review.

Since 1998, HSX has allowed just-for-fun traders to buy and sell valueless shares in Hollywood films based on forecasts of what the pics will ring up. Once launched, a new HSX site will list current and imminent movie releases with their projected four-week domestic grosses and allow exchange users to take long or short positions on the films.

A formal announcement about rules and guidelines for HSX users is expected closer to the launch. The exchange hopes to lure hobbyist investors as well as industry professionals, though the latter will be prohibited from improper insider activity.

For instance, distribution execs with access to early boxoffice data will be barred from making trades on the exchange after a film has opened. But film financiers will be allowed to invest in HSX an amount equal to a minority percentage of their total investment in a movie.

Investors wishing to participate in the exchange will buy "contracts" priced at one one-millionth of a film's projected boxoffice, with films to be listed on the exchange from the time productions are announced in the industry trade papers. Trading will begin six months before a movie's anticipated wide release.

HSX is owned by U.K.-based investment firm Cantor Fitzgerald.

"The number of people who visit movie theaters each year and form opinions about a film's success is in the tens of millions," Cantor Exchange president Richard Jaycobs said. "We believe that's the reason the public response to this product has been very positive."

Cantor Entertainment chief Andrew Wing said the exchange targets movie distributors, exhibitors, producers and other investors seeking "an unprecedented public market to create liquidity and hedge their daily business activities."

Until now, HSX revenue has come from industry ad sales and the sale of customer-use data to Hollywood marketing outfits.

penny-man
03-02-2010, 07:22 AM
i too am eagerly waiting for that to happen so i can invest in them

fatbastard
03-02-2010, 07:30 AM
Sounds like a flood of junk on the market.

marooko
03-02-2010, 07:34 AM
FUCK YOU HOLLYWOOD!!! And anyone who would do this.

SDsoldier7
03-02-2010, 07:35 AM
As if people on this board could give sound financial advice.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 07:42 AM
As if people on this board could give sound financial advice.

Tom can....he's old and not poor

MissingPerson
03-02-2010, 07:46 AM
Holy shit. I used to love HSX. I was terrible at it though, so I don't know if this is a good thing.

TomAz
03-02-2010, 07:49 AM
Not sure what economic need this fills. Seems to be closer to gambling than investing. Unless they're going to actually use it to raise capital for new projects?

PotVsKtl
03-02-2010, 08:56 AM
I just put all my savings into Alan Smithee.

marooko
03-02-2010, 08:58 AM
Not sure what ....... need this fills.

It's hollywood, baby.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 08:58 AM
I'd do this in a fucking heartbeat.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 09:18 AM
Not sure what economic need this fills. Seems to be closer to gambling than investing. Unless they're going to actually use it to raise capital for new projects?

Now that I think of it, the most interesting application of this would seem to me to be for brand new projects not even yet in production. I mean, in theory this could provide a very easy system for investing in new projects, couldn't it? In a couple of years people will be browsing through pages of announced projects not yet filmed to pick things to dump their money into. Possible?

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 09:20 AM
This has failure written all over it.


A formal announcement about rules and guidelines for HSX users is expected closer to the launch. The exchange hopes to lure hobbyist investors as well as industry professionals, though the latter will be prohibited from improper insider activity.

For instance, distribution execs with access to early boxoffice data will be barred from making trades on the exchange after a film has opened. But film financiers will be allowed to invest in HSX an amount equal to a minority percentage of their total investment in a movie.

TomAz
03-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Yeah. I mean insiders are the ones who will know if a picture in pre-production is actually worth investing in.

Are they going to be issuing prospectuses? Seems like that raises all sorts of issues regarding intellectual property.

Yes. failure.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 09:27 AM
I'm not sure that insiders are really all that clear on what's going to succeed and what won't. Remember, the only way you make money is if a movie earns over its projections. That adds an interesting factor to it.

I think the only way to make this work in the end is to pull the stocks from exchange the instant they premiere.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 09:29 AM
The thing that seems interesting about it to me is that for small time filmmakers it could be a very easy way to persuade people to invest in your movie. Well, at least it would be a very easy mechanism for doing it. By the same token that it's a lot easier to get people to donate to haiti when they can just text it, it's probably a lot easier to get people to invest in something if they can do it from their laptop.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 09:30 AM
I just put all my savings into Alan Smithee.

God I love you!!! If i liked penis or if you had a vag...i would dry hump you like there was no tomorrow just for this one statement

marooko
03-02-2010, 09:33 AM
This sounds great. We can pay to watch a movie twice. I've been trying to figure out a way to do this.

TomAz
03-02-2010, 09:44 AM
The thing that seems interesting about it to me is that for small time filmmakers it could be a very easy way to persuade people to invest in your movie. Well, at least it would be a very easy mechanism for doing it. By the same token that it's a lot easier to get people to donate to haiti when they can just text it, it's probably a lot easier to get people to invest in something if they can do it from their laptop.

You really think it would be easy? Wouldn't it be like issuing an IPO? not easy.


Conducting an IPO is time consuming and expensive. A successful IPO can take up to a year or more to complete and a company can expect to spend several hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorneys, accountants, and printers. In addition, the underwriter's fees can range from 3% to 10% of the value of the offering. Due to the time and expense of preparation of the IPO, many companies simply cannot afford the time or spare the expense of preparing the IPO.

Small startup companies do not trade on the NYSE or AMEX or publicly at all. They get private equity from individual investors. Which, I think, is sort of how independent filmmakers raise capital?

Monklish
03-02-2010, 09:48 AM
You really think it would be easy? Wouldn't it be like issuing an IPO? not easy.



Small startup companies do not trade on the NYSE or AMEX or publicly at all. They get private equity from individual investors. Which, I think, is sort of how independent filmmakers raise capital?

I dunno, I mean I didn't pass a series 7 so I don't exactly know. But with my complete lack of understanding, I'm firmly of the opinion that there ought to be a much easier way to do it.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
The thing that seems interesting about it to me is that for small time filmmakers it could be a very easy way to persuade people to invest in your movie. Well, at least it would be a very easy mechanism for doing it. By the same token that it's a lot easier to get people to donate to haiti when they can just text it, it's probably a lot easier to get people to invest in something if they can do it from their laptop.

This could also destroy the independent film industry. It will also force slot big budget bullshit in to theaters.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 09:50 AM
Small startup companies do not trade on the NYSE or AMEX or publicly at all. They get private equity from individual investors. Which, I think, is sort of how independent filmmakers raise capital?

This is very true Tom...many independent films get anywhere from 5-20 investors in a film..which is why you see the films with 30 producers on one fucking movie.

I'm not sure how this is going to work...I'm going to set up an account and do the free beta version they have.....i think you can make up to 100 bucks of real cash on the beta version

Monklish
03-02-2010, 09:52 AM
Why would it destroy independent film? The best way to make money off this would be speculating in small pictures that have very small projected earnings. Big pictures like Spiderman and Batman sequels are already projected to earn hundreds of millions and their equivalent stock price is probably going to get driven up even further by this market.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 09:56 AM
Thats why you invest in the bitches now....we all know films like Twilight and Harry Potter will have a stock at least 5x the original amount. I'll spend about a grand on each movie and sell that bitch the day before the movie comes out.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 10:01 AM
most of you are reading waaaay too much into this.

all this will be is a glorified futures market.

i'm looking forward to seeing the people who will get busted for insider trading.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 10:01 AM
I dunno, seems to me that if this shit blew up the way it could investing in flicks like Harry Potter and Twilight would almost have to be weighted to not be so easily profitable unless they performed WAY above expectations. Like the first Twilight you definitely would have made money, and the second one although highly anticipated still went way above what people were projecting, so you would've cleaned up there too. But since the third one is going to be projected close to the way the second performed, it's probably not gonna make so much money.

If this plays out the way the stock market does you have to think about it like this: if the movie is projected to make 300 million and it makes 600 million instead, you still only get a 2:1 return. If the movie's projected to make 20 or 30 and clears 100 though--or better yet, if you're investing before the movie is even in production and therefore its price is significantly lower due to the risk factor that the film might not even get finished... then you have a chance to really make some money.

I'd invest in True Grit, in other words.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 10:04 AM
I dunno, seems to me that if this shit blew up the way it could investing in flicks like Harry Potter and Twilight would almost have to be weighted to not be so easily profitable unless they performed WAY above expectations. Like the first Twilight you definitely would have made money, and the second one although highly anticipated still went way above what people were projecting, so you would've cleaned up there too. But since the third one is going to be projected close to the way the second performed, it's probably not gonna make so much money.

If this plays out the way the stock market does you have to think about it like this: if the movie is projected to make 300 million and it makes 600 million instead, you still only get a 2:1 return. If the movie's projected to make 20 or 30 and clears 100 though--or better yet, if you're investing before the movie is even in production and therefore its price is significantly lower due to the risk factor that the film might not even get finished... then you have a chance to really make some money.

I'd invest in True Grit, in other words.


ummm...no.

research how futures contracts work, and then apply it with movies.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Go fuck yourself.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 10:09 AM
Seriously--go fuck yourself.

fatbastard
03-02-2010, 10:46 AM
Ponzai IPO?

TomAz
03-02-2010, 10:50 AM
all this will be is a glorified futures market.



Hence my "this is more like gambling than investing" comment. But at least stock and commodities futures can serve an economic role (mostly as hedges). Still not sure what the function is here.. studios hedging their investment maybe?

caco0283
03-02-2010, 10:53 AM
https://practice.cantorexchange.com/

TomAz
03-02-2010, 11:01 AM
Hence my "this is more like gambling than investing" comment. But at least stock and commodities futures can serve an economic role (mostly as hedges). Still not sure what the function is here.. studios hedging their investment maybe?

I guess I should have read the first post more carefully.


Cantor Entertainment chief Andrew Wing said the exchange targets movie distributors, exhibitors, producers and other investors seeking "an unprecedented public market to create liquidity and hedge their daily business activities."

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 11:13 AM
hedging ones own investment in a movie seems like a pointless endeavor to me

caco0283
03-02-2010, 11:14 AM
hedging ones own investment in a movie seems like a pointless endeavor to me

but why

Monklish
03-02-2010, 11:14 AM
... what? How is that a pointless endeavor? How is it ever pointless to hedge an investment?

Maybe you should go read up a bit about how everything works, then get back to me.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 11:15 AM
Like Tom said earlier they really should just call it what it is, its a sports book for hollywood. I want to invest now in the movie about the fallout of the HSX and all the people that go to jail.

short sales, insider trading, and early leaks to bitorrents will destroy this.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 11:18 AM
... what? How is that a pointless endeavor? How is it ever pointless to hedge an investment?

Maybe you should go read up a bit about how everything works, then get back to me.

haha. you seem upset, monklish?

it is pointless to me because investing in making a movie is a bit different than investing in coca cola. you do it with the expectation that you will have a large gain in the short term.

TomAz
03-02-2010, 11:19 AM
hedging ones own investment in a movie seems like a pointless endeavor to me

It's like buying insurance. Pay a premium now in case the movie does poorly. Not perfect but can trim some of the risk.

What I don't understand is how they can pull this off and not have insider trading. I mean the people who would have an economic interest in hedging are those who know what's going on.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 11:19 AM
... please explain why that has anything to do with hedging your investment not being worthwhile.

I'm upset in that you make me look dumb for being friends with you. Please do better.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 11:26 AM
i want to know how to avoid going to jail again

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 11:36 AM
If you are smart enough and well connected in the industry you could make a shit load of money, just get out quick when the money is good and move to a country with terrible extradition laws.

marooko
03-02-2010, 11:44 AM
Don't be black.

caco0283
03-02-2010, 11:53 AM
That makes sense Justin

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 12:05 PM
... please explain why that has anything to do with hedging your investment not being worthwhile.

I'm upset in that you make me look dumb for being friends with you. Please do better.

you make yourself look dumb by trying to talk about investments.

also, if you are one of the investors (producers) of one of these movies, i would think that there would be special laws that would apply to you with respects to using this site/timing/amount of "betting".

the problem is that there are so many people connected with one picture alone that 80% of all the money being bet on this site would qualify as insider trading in any other sector.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 12:23 PM
ITS LIKE 9/11 ALL OVER AGAIN!