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gaypalmsprings
12-01-2009, 04:34 PM
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obama-devil.gif

Afghanistan’s future does not look good. The Taliban are gaining military and political strength, and President Hamid Karzai is losing support at home and internationally due to his administration’s rampant corruption and the obvious fraud committed in his re-election. Weariness with the war is spreading in the United States, where President Barack Obama announced his strategy for dealing with the country yesterday, including an increase in troops. European NATO members with troops in Afghanistan would prefer to withdraw them today rather than tomorrow.

TheWatcher
12-01-2009, 04:47 PM
Does it seem like a sudden change of heart? Obama had been acting with caution, not wanting to send people to die if the cause was not good. Now he's going with the advice from the generals?

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 04:48 PM
http://img.wonkette.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obama-devil.gif

Afghanistan’s future does not look good. The Taliban are gaining military and political strength, and President Hamid Karzai is losing support at home and internationally due to his administration’s rampant corruption and the obvious fraud committed in his re-election. Weariness with the war is spreading in the United States, where President Barack Obama announced his strategy for dealing with the country yesterday, including an increase in troops. European NATO members with troops in Afghanistan would prefer to withdraw them today rather than tomorrow.

I'm ok with the generalizations but the picture is just irresponsible.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Does it seem like a sudden change of heart? Obama had been acting with caution, not wanting to send people to die if the cause was not good. Now he's going with the advice from the generals?

Depends on how you want to frame his comments. The bulk of what Obama had to say was that going to Iraq was irresponsible, unnecessary during his campaign. Afghanistan, it was always pretty overwhelmingly agreed I believe, at least made sense after 9/11 because, you know, that's where fucking Al-Qaeda was, and I'm not certain Obama spoke out against military actions there as often.

That being said, I have a hard time rationalizing ratcheting up efforts there. There's about 100 Al-Qaeda operatives there now. I think it has more to do with trying to keep some stability in Pakistan but trying to get stability in the Middle East is like trying to [insert something that doesn't seem like you'd be able to do it as comparison].

MissingPerson
12-01-2009, 05:04 PM
Stupid picture and shoddy rhetoric. Paint it on a sandwich board and yell it on the street.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Cheers.

rage patton
12-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Please gaypalm, explain to me exactly how Obama is a communist.

zenidogx
12-01-2009, 05:15 PM
Please gaypalm, explain to me exactly how Obama is a communist.

Obviously you've never watched Glenn Beck. ACORN and SEIU are the masterminds behind this latest conspiracy. They're out to get us!

MissingPerson
12-01-2009, 05:19 PM
Wasn't aimed at you, MJA.

If the US pulls out of Afghanistan, there'll be open war in Pakistan. If there's open war in Pakistan, there'll be border war with India.

India and Pakistan are both nuclear powers.

Of course none of that will happen, because Russia, maybe even China or Iran, will move in on Afghanistan first. Two of those are nuclear powers - the third is on it's way.

There is a running theme here that may have become apparent.

wmgaretjax
12-01-2009, 05:21 PM
so instead... the US "invades" (a nuclear power).

republicans and democrats at least have warmongering in common...

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:21 PM
Oh, no, I was supporting you, MP. I think you hit it right on the head.

gaypalmsprings
12-01-2009, 05:21 PM
There is a running theme here that may have become apparent.

The theme is fear. Control the people with fear.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:23 PM
GPS - is NO fear ever legitimate?

MissingPerson
12-01-2009, 05:24 PM
That makes absolutely no sense. About Iraq, it makes sense, but not Afghanistan.

rage patton
12-01-2009, 05:25 PM
Obviously you've never watched Glenn Beck. ACORN and SEIU are the masterminds behind this latest conspiracy. They're out to get us!

I am aware Glenn Beck and the general stance of fox news. I just want gaypalm to answer the question.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:25 PM
GPS - you're like a goulash of the worst far left and far right soundbytes all mixed together.

gaypalmsprings
12-01-2009, 05:28 PM
http://crosswords.ryanfacestheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/i_love_goulash_heart_t_shirtp235193879370739817t5t r_400.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_XU9x8G7khv0/Sn8pfw2zSaI/AAAAAAAAICU/LQXn236whcM/s400/HPIM2112.JPG

BlackSwan
12-01-2009, 05:29 PM
Shadowy networks!

Archie Bunker
12-01-2009, 05:29 PM
The problem here was Obama dragging his feet forever as to what to do about Afghanistan.

There were only two possible correct solutions: Pull out, or send the appropriate number of troops.

Instead he was indecisive and hung with a dangerous middle ground for far too long.

Archie Bunker
12-01-2009, 05:30 PM
And I am 1/4 Hungarian, so I am quite familiar with goulash.

gaypalmsprings
12-01-2009, 05:32 PM
I see his lips moving on TV, but hear bla bla bla. Does he believe that crap?

hawkingvsreeve
12-01-2009, 05:35 PM
Nobody cares.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:35 PM
The problem here was Obama dragging his feet forever as to what to do about Afghanistan.

There were only two possible correct solutions: Pull out, or send the appropriate number of troops.

Instead he was indecisive and hung with a dangerous middle ground for far too long.

So, do you feel he now sent the appropriate number of troops?

malcolmjamalawesome
12-01-2009, 05:35 PM
And I am 1/4 Hungarian, so I am quite familiar with goulash.

Goulash is the bomb

MissingPerson
12-01-2009, 05:46 PM
so instead... the US "invades" (a nuclear power).


I don't like it anymore than anybody else. I don't like the idea of the US throwing it's weight around or invading where it wants on a whim; but right now, right this second, they are currently the only single force with even the faintest chance of responsibly seeing some sort of stability in that region. A region far more important than just caves or poppy fields. I would sooner see the US pull out of Iraq than pull out of Afghanistan, although in either case I think it would be reprehensibly irresponsible.

There probably weren't legitimate reasons to go into Afghanistan, but for Christ's sake, there's any dozen of reasons to stay.

humanoid
12-01-2009, 05:49 PM
duh....advanced positions for bombing raids over Iran! now we can hit them from both sides

zimmy1222
12-01-2009, 05:49 PM
republicans and democrats at least have warmongering in common...

republicans and democrats have a lot more than warmongering in common...

bobert
12-01-2009, 06:10 PM
I think some kind of lay-away plan should be implemented for this troop surge. No more military campaigns on the national credit card. If we start saving now, perhaps one day our great-grand-children can fight all of the wars our leaders wish we had the money for now.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
12-01-2009, 06:12 PM
republicans and democrats have a lot more than warmongering in common...

fingers in butts, dicks in butts

rage patton
12-01-2009, 06:18 PM
http://www.sneakmedia.com/lemondonkey/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/dickbutt.jpg

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
12-01-2009, 06:20 PM
21ImmTL05SM

moomoo
12-01-2009, 06:28 PM
The theme is fear. Control the people with fear.

e.g. posting a picture of Obama as a communist. seriously. what the fuck?

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
12-01-2009, 06:30 PM
e.g. posting a picture of Obama as a communist. seriously. what the fuck?

he's trying to scare you into sucking his dick

gaypalmsprings
12-01-2009, 06:36 PM
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/4/11/128839491413931669.jpg

Shredder
12-01-2009, 06:37 PM
it time we auto-tuned this thread... it seems to make other political debates tolerable and funny

Young blood
12-02-2009, 08:29 AM
Fuck Obama, He has sold out to Wall Street. Fuck Bob Rubin, In January 2009, Rubin was named by Marketwatch as one of the "10 most unethical people in business". Timothy Geithner can eat a fat dick too. Peter Orszag, Michael Froman, and James Rubin, Robert Rubin's son all fucking crooks.

"Rubinomics" is the shit that got us to the point of where we are today. Its a free for all and Obama cant get his head out of his ass long enough to understand sending 30,000+ troops in to Afghanistan isn't going to help anything but cover-up his economic shortcomings.

Kucinich is still my prez.

bug on your lip
12-02-2009, 08:32 AM
was Kucinich the one with the hot wife?

Young blood
12-02-2009, 08:36 AM
pierced tongue.

MissingPerson
12-02-2009, 08:38 AM
See? Now that makes sense.

Using every decision he makes as an excuse to rant incoherently and post clumsy propaganda just to further your own preconcieved agenda is dumb. On the other hand, making a coherent argument about the faulty choices you think he's made and why, that works.

I don't think anybody can reasonably, responsibly argue that an immediate US withdrawal from Afghanistan would make the world a better place. It doesn't make any sense for anybody. On the other hand, shady dealings with unethical people, that's an argument worth having.

captncrzy
12-02-2009, 08:40 AM
GPS thinks Obama is a communist because he hasn't done anything for the gays. If Obama's first order of business was to revoke the ban on gay marriage, I suspect he'd be singing a different tune.

TomAz
12-02-2009, 08:43 AM
Calling Obama a commie/socialist is nothing new and if you people are shocked by it you should read more or something.

yzkXkY5wNmg

bug on your lip
12-02-2009, 08:49 AM
i heard Obama is secretly a Muslim and that he hates America
Also i heard that the liberal media is too afraid to report this

TomAz
12-02-2009, 08:50 AM
also that he's not a US citizen

Young blood
12-02-2009, 08:53 AM
SHOW ME A BIRTH CERTIFICATE! SHOW ME! MUSLIM!!!

Monklish
12-02-2009, 08:54 AM
I heard that he hates queers.

That's when I started supporting him.

marooko
12-02-2009, 09:07 AM
I'm ok with the generalizations but the picture is just irresponsible.

I think it fits.


What I like most if the collective reaction. How the wagons circle around the "D", awesome sight.

malcolmjamalawesome
12-02-2009, 09:41 AM
I think it fits.


What I like most if the collective reaction. How the wagons circle around the "D", awesome sight.

This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of Communism.

Look, there are legitimate criticisms to be made about Obama. Calling him a Communist isn't one of them. It's rhetoric and it's unfounded but it's easily digestible because there's a common superficial agreement amongst people that "Communism = bad" and "taxing rich to help poor = communism" and "Democrats = tax rich and help poor." Dummies can circle their wagons around the "Communist" label. Beyond that it's empty.

You want to shit on Obama? Take a note from Young Blood. Obama is in bed with some super scummy motherfuckers. Whether that's had a practical effect on our nation yet or not? I dunno.

bug on your lip
12-02-2009, 09:49 AM
Obama is in bed with some super scummy motherfuckers.

This seems to imply that Obama is the exception, and that other politicians are cleaner. However if you did a background check on the advisors for any elected official on a National level you would find scummy. If you scrutinized every donation made towards any elected official on a National level you would find scummy.
Obama is not the exception.
You have committed a logical fallacy.

FAIL

malcolmjamalawesome
12-02-2009, 09:59 AM
So my accurate statement is a logical fallacy?

gaypalmsprings
12-02-2009, 10:10 AM
GPS thinks Obama is a communist because he hasn't done anything for the gays. If Obama's first order of business was to revoke the ban on gay marriage, I suspect he'd be singing a different tune.

Don't forget gays in the military.

No - I think he's still a socialist economist & an avid fan of war. He lacks the balls to do what is right.

biggfoot17
12-02-2009, 10:13 AM
This seems to imply that Obama is the exception, and that other politicians are cleaner. However if you did a background check on the advisors for any elected official on a National level you would find scummy. If you scrutinized every donation made towards any elected official on a National level you would find scummy.
Obama is not the exception.
You have committed a logical fallacy.

FAIL

Where did MJA imply anything? And yes, Obama was supposed to be the exception. Obama was seen as the white knight coming to save America and the world, so his involvement in "scummy" politics will be a surprise to many. Also, Joe Whogivesafuck from district 3 in bumfuck nowhere associating with scummy mother fuckers is a little different than the President of the United States associating with scummy mother fuckers.

bug on your lip
12-02-2009, 10:15 AM
only fools thought he was the exception

i'm just pointing out that you would be a fool to think so

biggfoot17
12-02-2009, 10:15 AM
No - I think he's still a socialist economist & an avid fan of war. He lacks the balls to do what is right.

And what is right, GPS?

bobert
12-02-2009, 10:21 AM
The speeches are nice. The man can talk, no arguing with that.

wmgaretjax
12-02-2009, 10:32 AM
only fools thought he was the exception

i'm just pointing out that you would be a fool to think so

truth.

BlackSwan
12-02-2009, 10:43 AM
x3.

hawkingvsreeve
12-02-2009, 10:46 AM
= Tttrrruuuttthhh


Dig on that.

Chaplipman
12-02-2009, 12:51 PM
You guys are CRAZY! He's change we can believe in!

!!!



And yes, Obama was supposed to be the exception. Obama was seen as the white knight coming to save America and the world,

I see you lack independent thought.

TomAz
12-02-2009, 12:57 PM
Claiming that someone 'lacks independent thought', without substantiation or elaboration, is not a rational argument. It's not thought at all. It's nothing but attitude and posing. Unfortunately, attitude and posing are what constitute thoughtful political discussion in this country these days.

Monklish
12-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Claiming that someone 'lacks independent thought', without substantiation or elaboration, is not a rational argument. It's not thought at all. It's nothing but attitude and posing. Unfortunately, attitude and posing are what constitute thoughtful political discussion in this country these days.

I see you lack independent thought.

obzen
12-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Crushing death-blows.




How is that for independent thought?

biggfoot17
12-02-2009, 01:17 PM
I see you lack independent thought.

I see you lack reading comprehension. I never said those were my beliefs.

Alchemy
12-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Wait........

Obama is black?

marooko
12-02-2009, 02:39 PM
I'm a little sour today.

marooko
12-02-2009, 02:40 PM
ALCHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sending you a PM.

greghead
12-02-2009, 03:32 PM
This all comes about six years too late.

Regardless, what is that brilliant saying about the cyclical nature of history? Alexander, the Roman Empire, Genghis Khan, the British, and the Soviets have all provided stunning examples that the Afghans are some of the toughest and most dedicated fighters on the planet. I don't foresee our little jaunt into Afghanistan ending any differently.

chairmenmeow47
12-02-2009, 04:24 PM
fuck obama. fucking pussy keeping us there. have we EVER made any progress in afghanistan?!?! no. DO WE HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THIS WAR, no. fuck this bullshit. WE CANNOT AFFORD IMPERIALISM ANY LONGER. we should stop trying to prevent the inevitable shit storm that is brewing in that region and move the fuck on already. no, we can't be rome. not ours.

MissingPerson
12-02-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't think the US want to hold onto Afghanistan - they just can't afford to have anybody else take it instead.

psycobetabuckdown
12-02-2009, 04:32 PM
fuck obama. fucking pussy keeping us there. have we EVER made any progress in afghanistan?!?! no. DO WE HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THIS WAR, no. fuck this bullshit. WE CANNOT AFFORD IMPERIALISM ANY LONGER. we should stop trying to prevent the inevitable shit storm that is brewing in that region and move the fuck on already. no, we can't be rome. not ours.

Thank you. Agree 100%.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-02-2009, 04:33 PM
I don't think the US want to hold onto Afghanistan - they just can't afford to have anybody else take it instead.

^
most insightful post ever.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 06:52 AM
fuck obama. fucking pussy keeping us there. have we EVER made any progress in afghanistan?!?! no. DO WE HAVE THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THIS WAR, no. fuck this bullshit. WE CANNOT AFFORD IMPERIALISM ANY LONGER. we should stop trying to prevent the inevitable shit storm that is brewing in that region and move the fuck on already. no, we can't be rome. not ours.

fuck fucking pussy fuck bullshit, shit.

KooKoo Banana Funtime
12-03-2009, 06:53 AM
^
most insightful post ever.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 07:04 AM
^
most insightful post ever.

I don't think we have a list of nations waiting to "take it" though. We leave, the Taliban continues to strive and we have already conceded they will be a part of the government in some fashion anyway. Then over time 100 Al Quada multiplies like cockroaches.

It's really a lose lose situation.

I realize we were all angry and justfied following 9/11 but even if Bush didn't neglect Afghanistan we wouldn't all of the sudden have a successful democracy at this point. Even with all the neglect, they only have 100 members of Al Quada running around at this point. It's more about keeping footing in the region and less about saving a people and purple fingers from voting.

stinkbutt
12-03-2009, 07:15 AM
Did any of you actually believe anything was going to change? How stupid are you people? Should I check out your beats?

JewFace
12-03-2009, 07:39 AM
I think calling the Afghanistan war "imperialism" is a bit ridiculous. Of course the war was completely mismanaged and then neglected by the Bush Administration, but we're there now. And while I hardly worship at the temple of Obama I sure as hell trust the judgment of him, his cabinet and his generals on the ground over that of angry undergrad international relations students.

Not that one soldier on the ground can know it all, but my friend Mikey is currently serving his 3rd tour in Afghanistan. He's a sergeant so while he's not a general or a member of Obama's cabinet, he's also not a fresh off the boat private. He and a lot of his fellow soldiers are applauding Obama's troop increase and actually wishing he'd increased the levels more. The husbands, wives and families of those soldiers of course might feel differently, but my friend at least feels they have no chance of making any progress in Afghanistan without more US and or NATO troops.

I'm not saying we as citizens shouldn't speak out when we feel a war is unjust, but I don't think this will end up being Obama's Vietnam.

chairmenmeow47
12-03-2009, 09:02 AM
we have wanted afghanistan long before 9/11. it's offensive to use it as an excuse to be there now.

it's also naive to think no one else would want afghanistan. russia needs a path to the sea somehow.

and for how many thousdands of years have great nations tried and ultimately failed to conquer afghanistan? why do we think we'll be any different?

faxman75
12-03-2009, 09:05 AM
Why would Russia succeed this time if we left?

chairmenmeow47
12-03-2009, 09:06 AM
i'm not saying ANYONE will succeed because generally they don't. i'm just saying there is value to the region and so it make sense various countries would want it.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 09:08 AM
http://www.theglobaleducationproject.org/mideast/info/maps/middle-east-military-and-oil-map.jpg

Young blood
12-03-2009, 09:12 AM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3562/3292775161_fab90b095b.jpg

Turkmenistan-Afghanistan Pipeline bypassing Iran.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 09:44 AM
Cheap opiates are also key when trying to make money off a nationally funded Heath care program.

amyzzz
12-03-2009, 09:54 AM
gimme some.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 09:55 AM
Cheap opiates are also key when trying to make money off a nationally funded Heath care program.

what we need is another Tea party led by Glenn Beck and march on Washington.
OUR VOICES MUST BE HEARD !!
DOWN WITH BLACK MUSLIMS WHO FORCE OPIATES AND UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE DOWN OUR GOD-FEARING HONEST HARDWORKING AMERICAN PATRIOT THROATS !! AMIRITE?

Monklish
12-03-2009, 09:56 AM
If this war meant cheap and readily available H I'd say we definitely need to commit more troops.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 10:02 AM
Oh bug. we should liberate the people because of the cheap labor they can provide us.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 10:05 AM
good point... is Randy still unemployed?
i would like to get my car's upholstery cleaned but i don't want to pay that much

canexplain
12-03-2009, 10:12 AM
I say napalm the poppy fields for about 3 months and then see how important or how much trouble that fucking county is. cr****

Young blood
12-03-2009, 10:14 AM
I say napalm the poppy fields for about 3 months and then see how important or how much trouble that fucking county is. cr****

Hell yeah! now you're talkin ron, a country of glass. Nukes the poppies!

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 10:14 AM
ron hates blacks and towel heads

Young blood
12-03-2009, 10:15 AM
sandies.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 10:17 AM
and don't even get him started on arab women

canexplain
12-03-2009, 10:26 AM
lolz ..... Nothing like the smell of burning towel head women in the morning :) cr****

Gribbz
12-03-2009, 10:28 AM
lolz ..... Nothing like the smell of burning towel head women in the morning :) cr****

Charlie don't surf.

amyzzz
12-03-2009, 10:29 AM
wtf, ron.

canexplain
12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
wtf, ron.

Come on amy, they are still going back to that thread ages ago. cr****

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/canexplain/napalm.jpg

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/canexplain/napalm2.jpg


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j211/canexplain/naplam3.jpg

Young blood
12-03-2009, 10:45 AM
hahahaha anddddddddd banhammer.

bobert
12-03-2009, 11:19 AM
and for how many thousdands of years have great nations tried and ultimately failed to conquer afghanistan? why do we think we'll be any different?

Genghis Khan didn't have unmanned fighter drones. We will prevail - so long as our enemy doesn't catch wind of our projected withdrawal date and wait us out.

gaypalmsprings
12-03-2009, 11:41 AM
and don't even get him started on arab women

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a281/Miss_Mischief/livejournal%20pics/sexy-hijab.jpg

chairmenmeow47
12-03-2009, 12:42 PM
Genghis Khan didn't have unmanned fighter drones.

if we don't starve trying to pay for them.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 12:50 PM
if we don't starve trying to pay for them.

Its all good china and the Asian Development Bank are bankrollin this one.

YOU BUY! US TREASURY! YOU BUY NOW!

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 01:15 PM
lots of uninformed hippies on this thread i see.

maybe most of you were not paying attention during the elections when obama made it clear that he was going to take this action?

maybe some of you forget 9/11 and just hate america?

maybe some of you forget that there are people in our country right now that go to that region to train with the hopes of blowing us up?

or maybe....just maybe....you have no clue about the subject at hand?

either way, i applaud this move by obama as will allow us to save face in the region after bush and co. fcked this up so bad.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 01:20 PM
maybe some of you forget 9/11 and just hate america?


THIS

Young blood
12-03-2009, 01:20 PM
lots of uninformed hippies on this thread i see.

maybe some of you forget 9/11 and just hate america?

maybe some of you forget that there are people in our country right now that go to that region to train with the hopes of blowing us up?


hahahahaha.....hahahahahaha

Its like when Rocky Balboa went to Russia in Rocky IV.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 01:22 PM
i don't hate america i just hate our soldiers.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 01:23 PM
either way, i applaud this move by obama as will allow us to save face in the region after bush and co. fcked this up so bad.

How are we saving face when we are leaving in a couple years? Do you really think the people of Afghanistan are happy that we are going to stick around long enough to prop up a government that will involve the Taliban?

You're a god damned fucking idiot. Go lick a wall you fucking dolt.

bobert
12-03-2009, 01:23 PM
maybe some of you forget 9/11 and just hate america?

maybe some of you forget that there are people in our country right now that go to that region to train with the hopes of blowing us up?

Right, I forgot the 911 terrorists learned how to fly airplanes in Afghanistan.

canexplain
12-03-2009, 01:23 PM
shyguy, I find it something akin to sending 40k soldiers into NY to get the Mafia. (I always did like the song 40,000 headmen by Traffic though) .... cr****

TomAz
12-03-2009, 01:24 PM
If we don't bring stability to Afghanistan, heroin prices will go through the roof.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 01:26 PM
What about my Oxycontin?

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 01:35 PM
How are we saving face when we are leaving in a couple years? Do you really think the people of Afghanistan are happy that we are going to stick around long enough to prop up a government that will involve the Taliban?

You're a god damned fucking idiot. Go lick a wall you fucking dolt.

does your medication require you to read my post twice in order to form one coherent thought on it? you remind of when i was in 4th grade. we used to sit around and see who could come up with the insult that uses the most cuss words.

since i'm bored right now...

yes, by us doing what we are doing with this latest round of troops we will show the world that we didn't just go in there once again, fck things up, and then leave them high and dry. maybe you should pick up a history book to learn about our influence in that country over the past few decades. you can have your uncle read it to you.

if (and that is a big if) the taliban get involved in the govt. over there, it will be because of the people who live there. not us. elections and democracy ring a bell? last i checked, your vote was no good over there, fauxy.

Young blood
12-03-2009, 01:39 PM
does your medication require you to read my post twice in order to form one coherent thought on it? you remind of when i was in 4th grade. we used to sit around and see who could come up with the insult that uses the most cuss words.

since i'm bored right now...

yes, by us doing what we are doing with this latest round of troops we will show the world that we didn't just go in there once again, fck things up, and then leave them high and dry. maybe you should pick up a history book to learn about our influence in that country over the past few decades. you can have your uncle read it to you.

if (and that is a big if) the taliban get involved in the govt. over there, it will be because of the people who live there. not us. elections and democracy ring a bell? last i checked, your vote was no good over there, fauxy.


The 2009 presidential election in Afghanistan was characterized by lack of security, low voter turnout and widespread ballot stuffing, intimidation, and other electoral fraud.[1][2][3]

The vote, along with elections for 420 provincial council seats, took place on August 20, 2009, but remained unresolved during a lengthy period of vote counting and fraud investigation.[4]

Two months later, under heavy U.S. and ally pressure, a second round run-off vote between incumbent President Hamid Karzai and his main rival Abdullah Abdullah was announced for November 7, 2009. On November 1, however, Abdullah announced that he would no longer be participating in the run-off because his demands for changes in the electoral commission had not been met, and a "transparent election is not possible." A day later, on November 2, 2009, officials of the election commission cancelled the run-off and declared Hamid Karzai as President of Afghanistan for another 5 year term.[2][3]

NATO officials announced in March 2009 that 15.6 million voters had registered to vote, roughly half of the country's population, and that 35 to 38 percent of registered voters were women.[5] Those registration numbers were disputed, however, by the Free and Fair Election Foundation of Afghanistan and media reports, which suggested widespread fraudulent activity in the election process.[6][7][8][9]


Sounds like their votes are no good either.

TomAz
12-03-2009, 01:50 PM
lots of uninformed hippies on this thread i see.

maybe most of you were not paying attention during the elections when obama made it clear that he was going to take this action?

maybe some of you forget 9/11 and just hate america?

maybe some of you forget that there are people in our country right now that go to that region to train with the hopes of blowing us up?

or maybe....just maybe....you have no clue about the subject at hand?

either way, i applaud this move by obama as will allow us to save face in the region after bush and co. fcked this up so bad.

Saving face: the new national priority.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 01:52 PM
yes, by us doing what we are doing with this latest round of troops we will show the world that we didn't just go in there once again, fck things up, and then leave them high and dry. maybe you should pick up a history book to learn about our influence in that country over the past few decades. you can have your uncle read it to you.

You are a fucking moron. That's exactly what we will be doing. Once we leave, what do you think is going to happen? You need to read those history books before you tell me to read anything.

Our influence in that country didn't exactly stop the Taliban from controlling the country nor did it stop them from allowing terrorists to train there. By doing what Obama has approved we are showing the Afghans that we are willing to make half assed committments and then when things at least appear to be pretty to the rest of the world, we will do exactly that, leave them high and dry. History. Read up.



if (and that is a big if) the taliban get involved in the govt. over there, it will be because of the people who live there. not us. elections and democracy ring a bell? last i checked, your vote was no good over there, fauxy.


You really are fucking clueless. Don't comment in this thread until you know what is going on with the election process over there. Obama has already welcomed talks with the Taliban and just today Karzai has opened up for talks with the Taliban yet again, as he has been wanting to do since 2008.

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 02:13 PM
You are a fucking moron. That's exactly what we will be doing. Once we leave, what do you think is going to happen? You need to read those history books before you tell me to read anything.

Our influence in that country didn't exactly stop the Taliban from controlling the country nor did it stop them from allowing terrorists to train there. By doing what Obama has approved we are showing the Afghans that we are willing to make half assed committments and then when things at least appear to be pretty to the rest of the world, we will do exactly that, leave them high and dry. History. Read up.




You really are fucking clueless. Don't comment in this thread until you know what is going on with the election process over there. Obama has already welcomed talks with the Taliban and just today Karzai has opened up for talks with the Taliban yet again, as he has been wanting to do since 2008.


fauxy, you are once again showing that you have no clue about the history of that region before 2001 nor are you making any sense what so ever with this emotional outburst. part of it even agrees with what i said, yet you are too caught up in yourself to realize it.

as much as you want the taliban to go away, they won't. again, you are clueless to the process and clueless to the way things work over there, so please spare us another 2 minutes of our lives in having to read your period stained posts, gtfo of this thread and let the adults speak.

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 02:15 PM
Saving face

yet another reason that you voted for obama

faxman75
12-03-2009, 02:18 PM
fauxy, you are once again showing that you have no clue about the history of that region before 2001

I learned everything about that region from Rambo 3 and Ron.

Since I am clueless to the "process" you should educate me.

bug on your lip
12-03-2009, 02:18 PM
yet another reason that you voted for obama

Tom eats Thai manboys like you for breakfast

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 02:28 PM
thomas won't play angry with me because he agrees with me.

fauxy, you can start by simply picking up a book on the history of afghanistan and pakistan. and yes, you should start to think in terms with respects to pakistan as being a bigger reason as to why obama just did what he did. i realize it is hard for you, but maybe you can fire a brain cell or two tonight.

bobert
12-03-2009, 02:51 PM
yes, by us doing what we are doing with this latest round of troops we will show the world that we didn't just go in there once again, fck things up, and then leave them high and dry. maybe you should pick up a history book to learn about our influence in that country over the past few decades. you can have your uncle read it to you.

Or just rent Charlie Wilson's War on DVD. It sums up the whole situation beautifully and Philip Seymour Hoffman really steals the show. While some people may feel that Tom Hanks was miscast and any amount of Julia Roberts is too much, I challenge you to find any movie that makes waging war seem so lighthearted and patriotic. It taught me everything I know about Afghanistan.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 02:55 PM
Keep cheering for these most excellent elections and our heroic involvement in setting up this very successful democracy.

When you stop peering over the cover of your history books that you keep harping on despite not knowing a thing about me, you should read and try to understand what is currently going on over there.

wmgaretjax
12-03-2009, 02:56 PM
either way, i applaud this move by obama as will allow us to save face in the region after bush and co. fcked this up so bad.

assuming things go the way Obama and co think they will....

canexplain
12-03-2009, 03:20 PM
I did hear an interesting discussion on Sunday about physical space and terrorists. One pundit said that 80 percent of world wide terrorist’s talks, education, indoctrination and such were via the internet from Iran to Afghanistan, et al. His statement was, “So what are you going to do, attack the internet?” The other pundit said they actually need physical space in order to do actual training thus Afghanistan is the perfect place. My only contention to the second part is you could buy a big farm in Arkansas and do the same kind of things and most locals would think all that shooting and explosions was normal. I am being a bit facetious there but it is not far from the truth if you know backwoods hillbillies. Cr****

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 03:42 PM
Keep cheering for these most excellent elections and our heroic involvement in setting up this very successful democracy.

When you stop peering over the cover of your history books that you keep harping on despite not knowing a thing about me, you should read and try to understand what is currently going on over there.

first you agree with me, quoting part of my post, then you see who wrote it and decide to bleed out? is that what happened here, fauxy?

it sounds to me like you want us to leave this region to those who roamed freely in it during the 90's. surely you cannot be that naive, can you?

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 03:44 PM
assuming things go the way Obama and co think they will....

we will never know. they will trumpet it as a success no matter what, paving the way for his re-election in 2012.

we will, however, leave back a secret strking force to mop up in the border region when needed. most likely, they will say it is a humanitarian force. call it what you want, as long as we have something there to act quickly.

TomAz
12-03-2009, 03:53 PM
Or just rent Charlie Wilson's War on DVD. It sums up the whole situation beautifully and Philip Seymour Hoffman really steals the show. While some people may feel that Tom Hanks was miscast and any amount of Julia Roberts is too much, I challenge you to find any movie that makes waging war seem so lighthearted and patriotic. It taught me everything I know about Afghanistan.

If you'd said Iraq, I'd've agreed with you. But Afghanistan? How old were you when that began? What filter are you getting your facts through?

TomAz
12-03-2009, 03:58 PM
thomas won't play angry with me because he agrees with me.



I don't know if I'd call it agreeing with you. I think you and I reach the same conclusion via very different routes.

I don't think Afghanistan is ultimately winnable, though. I think it will go like this: 2010, troop surge, lots of Taliban dead, remaining Taliban go into hiding; 2011, troop withdrawal; 2012, Obama re-election; 2013, Taliban driving tanks through the center of Kabul. This is not Bush's fault or Obama's fault but just the reality of the region.

Though maybe it is Bush's fault. If we hadn't invaded Iraq we could have kept our focus on the Taliban and maybe actually done something right for a change.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 03:58 PM
first you agree with me, quoting part of my post, then you see who wrote it and decide to bleed out? is that what happened here, fauxy?

it sounds to me like you want us to leave this region to those who roamed freely in it during the 90's. surely you cannot be that naive, can you?

I'm not sure why you think I am agreeing with you. This whole time we have been arguing about your position, not mine. My position is if we are leaving in 2 years, those who roamed freely in the 90's will return to do so.

Our presence in the region is simply a pause button. Once we leave, it will be back to normal. Your position seems to be schitzophrenic as you continue to back the Obama surge while trumpeting its success despite the histroy that tells us there is no positive outcome no matter when we actually leave.

It's really a shame that you have to act like an ass for a dozen posts before having any sort of logically discussion on the matter. That behavior is exactly why you aren't much more than a troll around here.

faxman75
12-03-2009, 04:00 PM
I don't know if I'd call it agreeing with you. I think you and I reach the same conclusion via very different routes.

I don't think Afghanistan is ultimately winnable, though. I think it will go like this: 2010, troop surge, lots of Taliban dead, remaining Taliban go into hiding; 2011, troop withdrawal; 2012, Obama re-election; 2013, Taliban driving tanks through the center of Kabul. This is not Bush's fault or Obama's fault but just the reality of the region.

Though maybe it is Bush's fault. If we hadn't invaded Iraq we could have kept our focus on the Taliban and maybe actually done something right for a change.

There it is. So if you agree with this assessment Shylilguy, then we agree.

greghead
12-03-2009, 04:06 PM
I think calling the Afghanistan war "imperialism" is a bit ridiculous.

What else would you call it? And I think you misinterpreted her post, I believe she was referring to all economic and military imperialism perpetrated by the U.S., not just Afghanistan.

greghead
12-03-2009, 04:10 PM
I think it will go like this: 2010, troop surge, lots of Taliban dead, remaining Taliban go into hiding; 2011, troop withdrawal; 2012, Obama re-election; 2013, Taliban driving tanks through the center of Kabul. This is not Bush's fault or Obama's fault but just the reality of the region.

Though maybe it is Bush's fault. If we hadn't invaded Iraq we could have kept our focus on the Taliban and maybe actually done something right for a change.

BINGO!

This is exactly what happened under Bush. The U.S. military "controlled" Afghanistan, but quickly lost its tenuous grip while everyone focused attention and resources on Iraq. Meanwhile Bush rode his military "success" all the way to another term.

Honestly, Afghanistan lost all hope the minute Massoud was assassinated. He was the only person who had a chance of effectively governing Afghanistan, IMO.

chairmenmeow47
12-03-2009, 04:13 PM
what would we have done "right" and what makes you think that things would have stayed "right" after we left?

bobert
12-03-2009, 04:16 PM
If you'd said Iraq, I'd've agreed with you. But Afghanistan? How old were you when that began? What filter are you getting your facts through?

I'd put my date of birth at approximately 15 minutes into act 1 - right around the part where Tom Hanks is doing blow in the hot-tub with all those hookers. So, I was pretty young I guess. Don't recall Iraq being mentioned in that movie and if pressed I'd have to say that Saving Jessica Lynch is the definitive film for that conflict.

ShyGuy75
12-03-2009, 04:26 PM
I'm not sure why you think I am agreeing with you. This whole time we have been arguing about your position, not mine. My position is if we are leaving in 2 years, those who roamed freely in the 90's will return to do so.

Our presence in the region is simply a pause button. Once we leave, it will be back to normal. Your position seems to be schitzophrenic as you continue to back the Obama surge while trumpeting its success despite the histroy that tells us there is no positive outcome no matter when we actually leave.

It's really a shame that you have to act like an ass for a dozen posts before having any sort of logically discussion on the matter. That behavior is exactly why you aren't much more than a troll around here.

when you quoted part of my post and wrote "THIS".

again, fauxy, you fail to see the big picture of why we are there, which is to disrupt AQ in the tribal regions of pakistan and quell violence that has spiraled out of control ever since we diverted everything into iraq.

you also fail to see how this latest move is necessary right now considering the state of the region and the FACT that people from this country are still going over there to get training. if that kid from NY pulled off his train bombings of the NYC subway system, you would be crying for more troops. so please, spare us the rah rah b.s. of whatever flavor you are sucking on this week. shocking, but there are people in the world that want to do us harm. ignoring that fact is what caused 9/11.

i don't agree with tom. if he were talking about iraq, yes, i would agree with him. afghanistan is not iraq, which you seem to be having a hard time wraping your tiny head around. the taliban must be included in the political process over there if they want any kind of peace within their own country. there are moderate taliban. let them fight the hard liners.

yes, this is all bush's fault for letting bin laden slip away in order to further his war agenda.

p.s. your mom is a troll

ELECtROjan
12-03-2009, 04:58 PM
im of the opinion that we could pull our soldiers and still maintain a level of security at par with its current level. With our fleet UAV providing surveillance and short attack capabilities and covert CIA and special forces doing routine missions we could kill the people we need to, give Afghanistan some level of sovereignty, and force them to take responsibility for their country. We need to apply pressure rather then keep telling them everything is going to be alright

Stickjohn
12-03-2009, 05:24 PM
With our fleet UAV providing surveillance and short attack capabilities and covert CIA and special forces doing routine missions

shh. that's in Pakistan. we don't talk about off-the-record wars.

bobert
12-03-2009, 05:30 PM
shh. that's in Pakistan. we don't talk about off-the-record wars.

I know, right? It's too bad, we really kicked ass in Cambodia.

boarderwoozel3
12-03-2009, 07:09 PM
shocking, but there are people in the world that want to do us harm. ignoring that fact is what caused 9/11.



Rummy? Is that you?

gaypalmsprings
12-03-2009, 07:20 PM
http://www.citizensamericaparty.org/martin-luther-king-jr-right.jpg

Bud Luster
12-03-2009, 09:46 PM
Sigh** I surely miss the first gulf war.. those were fantastic times...

BlackSwan
12-03-2009, 10:56 PM
p.s. your mom is a troll

...

BlackSwan
12-03-2009, 11:00 PM
Suggested Viewing:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/112560/the-daily-show-with-jon-stewart-wed-dec-2-2009


Comedy Central's Jon Stewart on Wednesday absolutely tore apart President Obama's speech on Afghanistan for being a virtual rehashing of former President George W. Bush's 2007 address concerning a troop surge in Iraq.

In the opening segment of "The Daily Show," Stewart asked, "[I]s 30,000 troops the military equivalent of two Advil?"

From there, Stewart used videoclips to show just how much Obama's speech resembled what Bush said more than two years ago concerning Iraq.

Still-ill
12-03-2009, 11:31 PM
That's upsetting.

Gribbz
12-03-2009, 11:38 PM
Thank god John Stewart weighed in on this. I was so lost.

BlackSwan
12-03-2009, 11:41 PM
So you immediately made the connection when you heard Obama's speech?

Gribbz
12-03-2009, 11:50 PM
It's nothing new.

BlackSwan
12-03-2009, 11:53 PM
This case is certainly new, silly.

Gribbz
12-04-2009, 12:01 AM
It sounds like the same rhetoric.

I watch the Daily Show. I was just merely commenting on John Stewart's influence.

I'm sure you've heard that same argument before right?

BlackSwan
12-04-2009, 12:09 AM
I've heard him do it a couple times before. The point of posting it is for people who don't watch the Daily Show, and have never seen it before.

Gribbz
12-04-2009, 12:12 AM
I've heard him do it a couple times before. The point of posting it is for people who don't watch the Daily Show, and have never seen it before.

Fair enough. I thought you were trying to make a point out of said skit.

boarderwoozel3
12-07-2009, 01:25 AM
US says bin Laden sometimes slips into Afghanistan
(http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091207/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_us_afghanistan)

Honestly, this is so painfully obvious that I'm a little offended this administration would play this card. I get why but still, come on. We're better than this.