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kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 11:03 AM
My friend needs a ticket for sunday...should I buy one now for around $200 or should I wait too see if the prices drop? I am not worried about friday or saturday...I KNOW the prices for those tickets will drop substantially...please give me your honest opinion, and PF please dont move this thread, I want the opinion of the people who frequent the lounge...thanks.

All That I Am
02-15-2007, 11:06 AM
get it now!
better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 11:08 AM
but do you think sunday tickets will drop in price at all in the next two months?

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 11:08 AM
no.

lowfront
02-15-2007, 11:09 AM
200 for a sunday ticket is nothing if you ask me...get it now!

kimery08
02-15-2007, 11:09 AM
not even a little bit.

fober
02-15-2007, 11:09 AM
I might be selling 18 Sunday tickets for $30 each on March 15th at 3:32PM on a craigslist website.

BUT WHICH CITY WILL IT BE

kimery08
02-15-2007, 11:11 AM
dun dun dunnn

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 11:12 AM
I might be selling 18 Sunday tickets for $30 each on March 15th at 3:32PM on a craigslist website.

BUT WHICH CITY WILL IT BE

3:32 pm, fuck, I will be masturbating at that time...do you think you could move it to 4:00...assfuck

bug on your lip
02-15-2007, 11:13 AM
do you know how i know you're gay ?

J~$$$
02-15-2007, 11:18 AM
thats what she said.

amyzzz
02-15-2007, 11:19 AM
Did you buy the ticket yet?

suprefan
02-15-2007, 11:22 AM
Prices are not going to drop... Get it now or be screwed ina few weeks when they are scarce...

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 11:24 AM
Or you'll be at suprefan's mercy.

bug on your lip
02-15-2007, 11:25 AM
sit in the wet

elChurro
02-15-2007, 12:28 PM
Have your friend jump the fence and meet them inside, if they happen to get busted just meet up with them later at the police station when your ready to head home.

chunk
02-15-2007, 12:31 PM
you are a horrible person if you decide to feed the system. your "friend" not going is better than contributing to the problem.

york707
02-15-2007, 01:17 PM
no.

That's what she said.

york707
02-15-2007, 01:18 PM
sit in the wet

That's what she said.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 01:19 PM
should I buy one now for around $200

that's what she said

york707
02-15-2007, 01:23 PM
3:32 pm, fuck, I will masturbating at that time...do you think you could move it to 4:00...assfuck

taht's what she said.

amyzzz
02-15-2007, 02:21 PM
You guys are fucking DEAD.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 02:35 PM
Allright, I just bought my friend a sunday night ticket for $180. AND yes chunk it really was for my friend. I am not a dumbass, my friend however, is, I bought my ticket the night L.A. times broke the news, he thought he could wait because tickets have not sold out this early EVER. I have the post to semi-prove I bought my ticket that day...

http://www.coachella.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5684&postcount=33

I also bumped the thread that post is in. It is located in the line-up/artists section so if you dont believe me go check it out. Its the "is this for real????" thread, second page.

PHEW...

chunk
02-15-2007, 02:50 PM
Allright, I just bought my friend a sunday night ticket for $180. AND yes chunk it really was for my friend. I am not a dumbass, my friend however, is, I bought my ticket the night L.A. times broke the news, he thought he could wait because tickets have not sold out this early EVER. I have the post to semi-prove I bought my ticket that day...

http://www.coachella.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5684&postcount=33

I also bumped the thread that post is in. It is located in the line-up/artists section so if you dont believe me go check it out. Its the "is this for real????" thread, second page.

PHEW...

it doesnt matter if you have a friend or not. the only thing that matters is if you contributed to a system that increases scalperism and high prices.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 02:54 PM
it doesnt matter if you have a friend or not. the only thing that matters is if you contributed to a system that increases scalperism and high prices.

chunk

stop ranting and instead make a coherent argument why we should adhere to your theology. specifically, I ask that you address the following set of facts.

1. Three day passes are sold out.
2. I want a three day pass.
3. Paul Tollett has not called and offered me one.
4. There are people who are willing to sell me one, at market rates.
5. I can afford market rates.

Under chunkism, what course of action should I follow?

breakjaw
02-15-2007, 02:58 PM
PHEW...

http://imageigloo.com/images/801product_detail_g_said.gif

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:02 PM
chunk

stop ranting and instead make a coherent argument why we should adhere to your theology. specifically, I ask that you address the following set of facts.

1. Three day passes are sold out.
2. I want a three day pass.
3. Paul Tollett has not called and offered me one.
4. There are people who are willing to sell me one, at market rates.
5. I can afford market rates.

Under chunkism, what course of action should I follow?

pay attention:

1) you were not able to get three day passes.

2) you can still go if you want to pay an exorbitant amount.

3) your decision to pay this amount will perpetuate situations like this.

UNDER CHUNKISM:

everybody will feel ashamed at buying tickets from these people (200 - 300% markup scum). these losers will then be selling less and start begging to recoup their losses in the parking lot on the day of the show.

and finally: if you cant go this time, then its not the end of the world. just sucks for us this time only. we messed up, thats all. but its better to not go than feed into the system.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:05 PM
Your alternative is no alternative at all. that's the problem with idealists.


let me propose to you this alternative:

You sell me your 3 day pass at face, and then you don't go.

deal?

amyzzz
02-15-2007, 03:07 PM
Chunk, what if ALL the tickets to the entire festival sold out in 10 minutes the first onsale date and many of us were not able to buy them? Where's your idealism then, hmmm?

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:08 PM
Your alternative is no alternative at all. That's the problem with idealists.

Tom, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard. I'm putting that into my guidelines for managers as we speak.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:09 PM
you fucking people dont read at all. maybe in itallics.

if you people didnt buy these tickets, then maybe these people wouldnt have jobs.

and once again, read. not going is better than paying what you did.

ayates
02-15-2007, 03:09 PM
chunk

5. I can afford market rates.

Under chunkism, what course of action should I follow?

http://imageigloo.com/images/801product_detail_g_said.gif

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:11 PM
Your alternative is no alternative at all. that's the problem with idealists.


let me propose to you this alternative:

You sell me your 3 day pass at face, and then you don't go.

deal?

i dont have a pass. im not willing to pay what your whore ass did, either.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:12 PM
If you did have a pass would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is and sell it to me at face?

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:17 PM
If you did have a pass would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is and sell it to me at face?

almost every concert i go to i buy two tickets. (except coachella the last two years). these are all sold out shows. rapture, silver jews, cursive, and hold steady immediately come to mind. many of those times, i am the only one able to go. i always find some extremely greatful person to sell it to at cost.

i do not have a spare coachella pass this year. or even one for me, for that matter. if i did, and i saw you in the parking lot or wherever, you would not pay one dollar over face.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:19 PM
I'm siding with chunk on this. Fucking scalpers are assholes.

For example - Modest Mouse sold out here in less than one day. I'm on craigslist to buy them but I'm not paying anything but the ticket price because the only kind of people I want to buy the ticket from are people who bought them because they were going to go but now aren't able to. I would not buy tickets from someone who purposefully bought the tickets to make a profit. Sorry...that's fucking sick. Tickets should NOT be sold for a profit twice.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:22 PM
chunk, you are right...if nobody buys their tickets for a ridiculous price then they will have to sell them at a lower price and it will benefit the entire community (the community being all who want to go to coachella, but dont have a ticket). However, the majority of the people in our society are individualists and do not care what people we do not know or have no compassion towards do. Thus, you/I cannot stop people from paying these absurd amounts (>500 for a ticket for sunday). So people like Tom and my friend have to conceed to the scalpers.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:23 PM
see, that's only a half-assed dedication to your chunkist religion. You're only willing to stop the sin if you happen to have a spare.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:23 PM
i do not have a spare coachella pass this year. or even one for me, for that matter. if i did, and i saw you in the parking lot or wherever, you would not pay one dollar over face.

i don't believe you. i would like to since i don't know you and you seem like a nice guy and this isn't my argument anyway but i don't believe you. coachella is not the same as seeing the rapture in some club. if you had an extra ticket to the festival, you'd put it on ebay just like everyone else. or say you DID bring it to the parking lot, you wouldn't say it's like a hundred bucks or whatever, you'd say "how much will you give me for it?" JUST LIKE YOUR HATED SCALPERS. you'd try to get whatever everybody else was getting. that's just free market economics. that's just supply and demand. no one's attacking your ideals, chunk. they're to be lauded. it just doesn't translate into reality. for me anyway.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:24 PM
see, that's only a half-assed dedication to your chunkist religion. You're only willing to stop the sin if you happen to have a spare.

what? where am i willing to not stop the sin? if i had one, i bought it at cost. if i had a spare, then maybe you would have one at cost, too.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:25 PM
Tickets should NOT be sold for a profit twice.


what is your moral basis for making this claim of "should"?

milk gets sold three times for a profit. farmer to wholesaler, wholesaler to grocer, grocer to you. Is that immoral?

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm siding with chunk on this. Fucking scalpers are assholes.

For example - Modest Mouse sold out here in less than one day. I'm on craigslist to buy them but I'm not paying anything but the ticket price because the only kind of people I want to buy the ticket from are people who bought them because they were going to go but now aren't able to. I would not buy tickets from someone who purposefully bought the tickets to make a profit. Sorry...that's fucking sick. Tickets should NOT be sold for a profit twice.

I agree with you, but if you really want to go to a show sometimes you have no choice. There are less people who decide/choose not to go than there are that buy up all the tickets. Leaving you no choice but to buy from the scalper. Besides I am counting on things evening out when my friend gets tickets for friday and saturday for $30

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:26 PM
i don't believe you. i would like to since i don't know you and you seem like a nice guy and this isn't my argument anyway but i don't believe you. coachella is not the same as seeing the rapture in some club. if you had an extra ticket to the festival, you'd put it on ebay just like everyone else. or say you DID bring it to the parking lot, you wouldn't say it's like a hundred bucks or whatever, you'd say "how much will you give me for it?" JUST LIKE YOUR HATED SCALPERS. you'd try to get whatever everybody else was getting. that's just free market economics. that's just supply and demand. no one's attacking your ideals, chunk. they're to be lauded. it just doesn't translate into reality. for me anyway.

Well said!

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:29 PM
i don't believe you. i would like to since i don't know you and you seem like a nice guy and this isn't my argument anyway but i don't believe you. coachella is not the same as seeing the rapture in some club. if you had an extra ticket to the festival, you'd put it on ebay just like everyone else. or say you DID bring it to the parking lot, you wouldn't say it's like a hundred bucks or whatever, you'd say "how much will you give me for it?" JUST LIKE YOUR HATED SCALPERS. you'd try to get whatever everybody else was getting. that's just free market economics. that's just supply and demand. no one's attacking your ideals, chunk. they're to be lauded. it just doesn't translate into reality. for me anyway.

That's ridiculous. If I read chunk right, he was saying he buys tickets to bring friends with him that may not have them. If he can't find a friend for the other ticket(s) he has, he would sell them in the parking lot for face value. I believe him. I'd do that too.

It's not idealism, it's just a different set of values. Going to a fest like this isn't the same thing as selling a product, you're sharing an artistic experience. That may sound hokey to you, but I don't think it's right to extract extra cash for something like that.

You live in a cynical world, dude. I thought it was partly an act, I guess not.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:29 PM
i don't believe you. i would like to since i don't know you and you seem like a nice guy and this isn't my argument anyway but i don't believe you. coachella is not the same as seeing the rapture in some club. if you had an extra ticket to the festival, you'd put it on ebay just like everyone else. or say you DID bring it to the parking lot, you wouldn't say it's like a hundred bucks or whatever, you'd say "how much will you give me for it?" JUST LIKE YOUR HATED SCALPERS. you'd try to get whatever everybody else was getting. that's just free market economics. that's just supply and demand. no one's attacking your ideals, chunk. they're to be lauded. it just doesn't translate into reality. for me anyway.

pay attention to your first sentence. and of course you dont know if i have ever scalped before or not. just saying you dont believe me doesnt add to the debate. youre just trying to attract attention.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:30 PM
I agree with you, but if you really want to go to a show sometimes you have no choice. There are less people who decide/choose not to go than there are that buy up all the tickets. Leaving you no choice but to buy from the scalper. Besides I am counting on things evening out when my friend gets tickets for friday and saturday for $30

I wouldn't pay the extra money. I love Modest Mouse, but I'm not giving anyone extra cash for them.

To be honest, I did overpay for Springsteen tickets when I was younger once to a scalper. I wouldn't do it now, though.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:32 PM
I wouldn't pay the extra money. I love Modest Mouse, but I'm not giving anyone extra cash for them.

To be honest, I did overpay for Springsteen tickets when I was younger once to a scalper. I wouldn't do it now, though.

Some people will.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:32 PM
what is your moral basis for making this claim of "should"?

milk gets sold three times for a profit. farmer to wholesaler, wholesaler to grocer, grocer to you. Is that immoral?

its okay to put things like art (musical/concerts) in a vacuum that excludes supply and demand. thats exactly why promoters and artists go to such extremes to avoid situations that cause a huge markup in prices.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:33 PM
Coachella is a commercial enterprise. This is not MOMA.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:36 PM
Coachella is a commercial enterprise. This is not MOMA.

they went to as great as means as possible to ensure the people who wanted to go at original prices could go. the agency you went to made sure you paid as much as possible.

NeverMyopic
02-15-2007, 03:39 PM
but do you think sunday tickets will drop in price at all in the next two months?

I think Sundays will actually go up. They're already difficult to get now, and they will be more scarce later on, or people will request ridiculous amounts for them. I would get it now.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:39 PM
That's ridiculous. If I read chunk right, he was saying he buys tickets to bring friends with him that may not have them. If he can't find a friend for the other ticket(s) he has, he would sell them in the parking lot for face value. I believe him. I'd do that too.

It's not idealism, it's just a different set of values. Going to a fest like this isn't the same thing as selling a product, you're sharing an artistic experience. That may sound hokey to you, but I don't think it's right to extract extra cash for something like that.

You live in a cynical world, dude. I thought it was partly an act, I guess not.

well yeah okay yablo. but i think you're missing the point of my argument. so let me ask you this. you've got front row seats to the sold out arcade fire show at judson church. you can't go. you paid sixty. someone is WILLING to pay you a thousand. you're not a millionaire and a thousand dollars is a lot of money to you. it's obviously NOT to the person willing to pay it. so what do you do?

i'm not saying that everybody who does this is a scalper and nor do i condone scalpers buying up rows of tickets. that's why i believe in ticket limits. what sets coachella apart is that every year it's a once in a lifetime thing and if some rich kid waited too long and WANTS to buy your ticket now at a premium, what is wrong with that? why is it inherently evil to turn a profit?


youre just trying to attract attention.

i've never tried to attract attention in my life. asshat. i'm just joining the political discussion currently unfolding here. you got a problem with that?

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:40 PM
I think Sundays will actually go up. They're already difficult to get now, and they will be more scarce later on, or people will request ridiculous amounts for them. I would get it now.

wrong

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:40 PM
what is your moral basis for making this claim of "should"?

milk gets sold three times for a profit. farmer to wholesaler, wholesaler to grocer, grocer to you. Is that immoral?

Jesus, Tom, are you Milton Friedman now?

Apples and oranges. CONTEXT. STAY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SITUATION. Morality is not a set of fixed priciples, it's driven by context.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:41 PM
they went to as great as means as possible to ensure the people who wanted to go at original prices could go. the agency you went to made sure you paid as much as possible.

You are right they did, GV did what they do every year: pre-pre-sale, pre-sale, on sale to public...However, people also make decisions on when to buy tickets based on facts like Coachella usually sells out (if it even does) week(s) before the event. So, as I see it GV did give people a chance to obtain tickets, but the chance they had was not as long as it was in previous years.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:41 PM
I think Sundays will actually go up. They're already difficult to get now, and they will be more scarce later on, or people will request ridiculous amounts for them. I would get it now.

Thanks, I already got it for $180

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:42 PM
Jesus, Tom, are you Milton Friedman now?

Apples and oranges. CONTEXT. STAY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SITUATION. Morality is not a set of fixed priciples, it's driven by context.

post-modernist.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:42 PM
You are right they did, GV did what they do every year: pre-pre-sale, pre-sale, on sale to public...However, people also make decisions on when to buy tickets based on facts like Coachella usually sells out (if it even does) week(s) before the event. So, as I see it GV did give people a chance to obtain tickets, but the chance they had was not as long as it was in previous years.

exactly right. gv puts out a quality product every year but even THEY don't know exactly what the response will be. this isn't gv's fault. so now the secondary market takes over. it's simple.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:44 PM
You are right they did, GV did what they do every year: pre-pre-sale, pre-sale, on sale to public...However, people also make decisions on when to buy tickets based on facts like Coachella usually sells out (if it even does) week(s) before the event. So, as I see it GV did give people a chance to obtain tickets, but the chance they had was not as long as it was in previous years.

and thats why it sucks for us. it would suck even more if we fed the agencies.

mountmccabe
02-15-2007, 03:46 PM
I wouldn't pay the extra money. I love Modest Mouse, but I'm not giving anyone extra cash for them.

To be honest, I did overpay for Springsteen tickets when I was younger once to a scalper. I wouldn't do it now, though.

I've overpaid for Modest Mouse tickets. And it wasn't even advance tickets; it was a scam put on by the people working the venue. The show was going to be sold out so if you didn't get there early enough you could wait in line for the lottery to see who gets in (which they were only doing to give them time to pull their scam) or you could go around back and buy tickets for double face. I felt pretty stupid and pretty awful doing it but they were one of my favorite bands and I had not seen them before.

I've learned my lesson, though. If I really care about going to a show to the point where I would pay double if it came to it then I'll break down and pay the 10-15% extra to get them beforehand even if I don't expect a sellout.


Some people will.

This is the problem with the idealism on the part of someone who wants tickets, of course. It's not effective. It would be effective if everyone acted that way but that isn't a stable system.


Also I believe chunk that he doesn't scalp. I don't either. Idealism as a seller is entirely possible... it just means you don't profit on ending up with extra tickets.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:47 PM
and thats why it sucks for us. it would suck even more if we fed the agencies. (people like tom, kreutz, amy, etc.)

My friend already decided he is going to the festival, there was no other alternative.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:47 PM
well yeah okay yablo. but i think you're missing the point of my argument. so let me ask you this. you've got front row seats to the sold out arcade fire show at judson church. you can't go. you paid sixty. someone is WILLING to pay you a thousand. you're not a millionaire and a thousand dollars is a lot of money to you. it's obviously NOT to the person willing to pay it. so what do you do?

i'm not saying that everybody who does this is a scalper and nor do i condone scalpers buying up rows of tickets. that's why i believe in ticket limits. what sets coachella apart is that every year it's a once in a lifetime thing and if some rich kid waited too long and WANTS to buy your ticket now at a premium, what is wrong with that? why is it inherently evil to turn a profit?


First of all, I did make the distinction between someone who purposefully paid for a ticket to sell it for a profit. The situation you describe is one where I can't go and need to unload the ticket. You won't believe me, but I swear that I would not sell the ticket for $1,000. If someone gave me a friendly tip, hey, sure I'd take it. It's nearly impossible for me to believe that someone would contact me without knowing my price and offer that kind of money for the ticket. If they did, I'd say, "Dude, I was going to sell it for face value." If s/he insisted on giving me the big bucks, I'm not going to put up a big fight about it.

But more likely, someone would ask me what I'm charging and I'd say face value. You may not believe me...whatever, that's fine. I would be happy to make someone's day by selling them a ticket for face value to a great show they didn't think they were going to get to see.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:49 PM
post-modernist.

Indeed I am.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:50 PM
This is the problem with the idealism on the part of someone who wants tickets, of course. It's not effective. It would be effective if everyone acted that way but that isn't a stable system.

You are right, but not everyone will act that way and you, I , or anyone cannot make them. LOST CAUSE. It will happen whether I or anyone on this board buys from scalpers.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:50 PM
chunk - your hollow moralism gets more shrill by the minute. Someday you'll learn that preaching at people doesn't usually work. You accuse us 'fucking people' of not reading but I think you need to get this through your 'fucking skull': Give them a good alternative and people will usually take the better path. Give them no alternative and people will keep doing what they are doing. That's not amoral, it's just intelligent behavior.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:52 PM
First of all, I did make the distinction between someone who purposefully paid for a ticket to sell it for a profit. The situation you describe is one where I can't go and need to unload the ticket. You won't believe me, but I swear that I would not sell the ticket for $1,000. If someone gave me a friendly tip, hey, sure I'd take it. It's nearly impossible for me to believe that someone would contact me without knowing my price and offer that kind of money for the ticket. If they did, I'd say, "Dude, I was going to sell it for face value." If s/he insisted on giving me the big bucks, I'm not going to put up a big fight about it.

But more likely, someone would ask me what I'm charging and I'd say face value. You may not believe me...whatever, that's fine. I would be happy to make someone's day by selling them a ticket for face value to a great show they didn't think they were going to get to see.

I as a well would sell a ticket for face value if I couldnt go...I have before...when I was in high school the band Thursday was playing a show and I had bought pre-sale tickets...well I ended up not being able to go because someone passed away...I sold my ticket to some kid for face value.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:53 PM
First of all, I did make the distinction between someone who purposefully paid for a ticket to sell it for a profit. The situation you describe is one where I can't go and need to unload the ticket. You won't believe me, but I swear that I would not sell the ticket for $1,000. If someone gave me a friendly tip, hey, sure I'd take it. It's nearly impossible for me to believe that someone would contact me without knowing my price and offer that kind of money for the ticket. If they did, I'd say, "Dude, I was going to sell it for face value." If s/he insisted on giving me the big bucks, I'm not going to put up a big fight about it.

But more likely, someone would ask me what I'm charging and I'd say face value. You may not believe me...whatever, that's fine. I would be happy to make someone's day by selling them a ticket for face value to a great show they didn't think they were going to get to see.

agreed. you're a good man yablo. perhaps better than i. but i think it's also important to make the distinction that some of us are talking about two different things here. walking into a festival holding a golden ticket and giving it away for practically nothing or at face value (a la grateful dead) is WAY different than posting them online pre-meditated weeks in advance. even i'd do the former and i'm a jerk.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 03:53 PM
chunk - your hollow moralism gets more shrill by the minute. Someday you'll learn that preaching at people doesn't usually work. You accuse us 'fucking people' of not reading but I think you need to get this through your 'fucking skull': Give them a good alternative and people will usually take the better path. Give them no alternative and people will keep doing what they are doing. That's not amoral, it's just intelligent behavior.

Yep.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:53 PM
chunk - your hollow moralism gets more shrill by the minute. Someday you'll learn that preaching at people doesn't usually work. You accuse us 'fucking people' of not reading but I think you need to get this through your 'fucking skull': Give them a good alternative and people will usually take the better path. Give them no alternative and people will keep doing what they are doing. That's not amoral, it's just intelligent behavior.

the alternative is going to be said for at least the third time now:

its okay to not pay that much and not go. its not the end of the world. paying what they want is worse than not going. even if you can afford it.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 03:54 PM
Give them no alternative and people will keep doing what they are doing. That's not amoral, it's just intelligent behavior.

What other alternative could GV possibly give?

I understand the behavior, but it's not intelligent, it's self-interested.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 03:56 PM
paying what they want is worse than not going.

that's your value judgment. I don't share it.

mountmccabe
02-15-2007, 03:58 PM
One of the people in our party went on Saturday in 2005 and then decided against going Sunday and we ended up giving away the ticket to some young guy lying by entry lines with a sign that said "I need a ticket." I later saw the same guy sleeping in the back of the Mojave.

I kinda got somebody in trouble one of the days at Pitchfork last summer by selling him tickets at face. They had just gotten off the L and I sold them my extras right there and I hear "But you said it would be tough to get tickets!"

york707
02-15-2007, 03:58 PM
I agree that if nobody paid scalpers for tickets this year and the next and for x number of more years, eventually scalpers would stop buying up the tickets in anticipation of selling them at mark ups. The market is dynamic and it learns. It may take them a while, but they would learn. But are people disciplined enough to do this? No, of course not. If I valued this festival to be $500 and I DID NOT pay for a ticket that was available for less, I would be acting irrationally. Chunk is asking people to act irrationally. If, somehow, people did not buy ANY tickets from scalpers, it would be because the tickets were perfectly priced in the first place.

Now consider the situation where all of the available tickets are sold either in pre-presale, pre sale, normal sale, and all the tickets that scalpers had were sold to willing buyers by the beginning of the festival. In this situation, every ticket would have a corresponding attending festival goer. Prices would have ranged from $199-~$700 (or whatever the last, most desparate person is willing to pay for that last ticket). This situation would reflect the actual demand for the tickets, and chances are, GV would raise prices the next year because they would rather capture those rents than let scalpers capture it. That way, they can reinvest that money in buying talent, lowering beer prices, etc...

From the purchasers perspective, it doesn't matter who gets the extra money -- the market (and GV) will figure it out eventually and adjust the prices accordingly. Chunck can go ahead and not buy from scalpers. Other people will. GV will raise the prices. Then Chunk will have to pay higher prices -- or not. GV doesn't care about Chunk. GV cares about the 80k people that are willing to pay the prices. You are either on this side of the demand curve or on the other. They don't really care which side any individual person lands on.

chunk
02-15-2007, 03:58 PM
that's your value judgment. I don't share it.

and i suppose thats the end of it. but remember, you initially asked "what can i do". you can do what im probably going to do. not end up paying 200 - 300%. dont act like theres no alternative.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 03:58 PM
What other alternative could GV possibly give?

I understand the behavior, but it's not intelligent, it's self-interested.

yablo. gv already gave the only alternative they could. here are the tickets, BUY THEM. after they're gone, they're gone, you're on your own. i'm totally with tom on this one. this is no one's fault. it's just the way things work. if you want to go bad enough, you'll find a way. people selling tickets that they can't use is merely providing a public sevice to those that can. i like the spirit of your argument, but i just don't see any way around that one irrefutable fact.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 04:00 PM
and i suppose thats the end of it. but remember, you initially asked "what can i do". you can do what im probably going to do. not end up paying 200 - 300%. dont act like theres no alternative.

there's no alternative that actually gets me inside the polo grounds.

york707
02-15-2007, 04:01 PM
Wow, there were 10 more posts posted as I typed that.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 04:02 PM
i'm totally rating this thread now.

good argument too york. eloquently stated.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 04:03 PM
What other alternative could GV possibly give?

I understand the behavior, but it's not intelligent, it's self-interested.

perhaps Professor you could inform us of the difference between intelligent and self-interested behavior. I am interested in the science behind this distinction.

chunk
02-15-2007, 04:04 PM
there's no alternative that actually gets me inside the polo grounds.

not for less than five something, no. and that five something will turn into six something and on and on because of people like you.

TomAz
02-15-2007, 04:05 PM
are either on this side of the demand curve or on the other.

bingo.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:07 PM
and i suppose thats the end of it. but remember, you initially asked "what can i do". you can do what im probably going to do. not end up paying 200 - 300%. dont act like theres no alternative.

See...I agree with this.

I also acknowledge that most people wouldn't. Which is a shame. I suppose tom and mob also think it's perfectly rational for ticketmaster to charge their exorbitant handling fees since people are willing to pay them. Tev.

Draw some fucking lines people.

york707
02-15-2007, 04:09 PM
Ticketmaster has a monopoly. It's a different story. The funny thing is, the secondary market for tickets is pretty close to a free market (once you get over the barriers to entry, which is to say, once it's sold out, it acts like a free market).

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:09 PM
perhaps Professor you could inform us of the difference between intelligent and self-interested behavior. I am interested in the science behind this distinction.

Are you saying they're the same thing?

york707
02-15-2007, 04:12 PM
When it comes to economics, they're pretty damn close.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 04:16 PM
See...I agree with this.

I also acknowledge that most people wouldn't. Which is a shame. I suppose tom and mob also think it's perfectly rational for ticketmaster to charge their exorbitant handling fees since people are willing to pay them. Tev.

Draw some fucking lines people.

that's a completely different argument and you know it. ticketmaster charges exorbitant fees to handle ticketing concerns for entities like GV. it sucks and they should be shot or at least forced to share the market a little more (which come to think of it, IS happening). but if you want to complain about that, THEN your argument is with the promoter for using TM. now if you're pissed because the event is SOLD OUT and you really wanted to go and still do and might have to pay more for the privilege of doing so, then the only person you have to complain about is YOURSELF for not getting the tickets sooner. you win some, you lose some. you still want to go, then you're going to have to PAY. it's a dynamic market, as york said, and it takes care of itself. to me, your argument is based more on ideals and principle and not enough on rational thinking and simple common sense.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:17 PM
When it comes to economics, they're pretty damn close.

The irony here is this is a condition largely created by a notably anti-capitalist band.

(Also, Tom, time to stop listening to The Clash.)

york707
02-15-2007, 04:18 PM
It's ironic like rain on your wedding day, dude.

kimery08
02-15-2007, 04:19 PM
hahaha

mountmccabe
02-15-2007, 04:19 PM
I suppose tom and mob also think it's perfectly rational for ticketmaster to charge their exorbitant handling fees since people are willing to pay them. Tev.

How often have you bought tickets online from non-Ticketmaster services? Ticketweb is Ticketmaster-owned so that doesn't count.

They may be jerks and overly aggressive and mean and whatever but they're also very good at what they do.

If the event isn't going to sell out right away or it's GA so you don't need to buy tickets right away then get them from the venue or some other place that charges less on the fees.

If that's not the case then you want to be buying from Ticketmaster rather than some tiny mess of a company that'll fuck up your order or crash when it's bombarded by 100,000 queries in 2 minutes.

What I'm saying is Ticketmaster performs a rather difficult service (when it comes to selling large numbers of tickets quickly to people scattered over the world) that I've seen few if any other companies do without serious issues.

mob roulette
02-15-2007, 04:22 PM
you know how i know you're gay?

you don't believe in free enterprise.

sorry. i just had to slip that in before i left the office.

great discussion though. GREAT.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:27 PM
that's a completely different argument and you know it. ticketmaster charges exorbitant fees to handle ticketing concerns for entities like GV. it sucks and they should be shot or at least forced to share the market a little more (which come to think of it, IS happening). but if you want to complain about that, THEN your argument is with the promoter for using TM. now if you're pissed because the event is SOLD OUT and you really wanted to go and still do and might have to pay more for the privilege of doing so, then the only person you have to complain about is YOURSELF for not getting the tickets sooner. you win some, you lose some. you still want to go, then you're going to have to PAY. it's a dynamic market, as york said, and it takes care of itself. to me, your argument is based more on ideals and principle and not enough on rational thinking and simple common sense.

I'm turned around to the point where I don't know what we're arguing about.

All I'm saying is this: I agree with chunk that I would not pay 10x (or even 2x) the face value for a ticket to a show I wasn't able to get tickets for. That's my bad for not getting the tickets. And I don't want to reward some prick who bought the tickets solely for the purpose of selling them for a profit. There's a lesser degree of infraction if the person bought the ticket with the expectation that they or someone they know were going and then were unable to BUT also charged more than face value. I wouldn't do that, but it's not as bad as buying with the intent of scalping tickets.

york707
02-15-2007, 04:28 PM
How often have you bought tickets online from non-Ticketmaster services? Ticketweb is Ticketmaster-owned so that doesn't count.

They may be jerks and overly aggressive and mean and whatever but they're also very good at what they do.

If the event isn't going to sell out right away or it's GA so you don't need to buy tickets right away then get them from the venue or some other place that charges less on the fees.

If that's not the case then you want to be buying from Ticketmaster rather than some tiny mess of a company that'll fuck up your order or crash when it's bombarded by 100,000 queries in 2 minutes.

What I'm saying is Ticketmaster performs a rather difficult service (when it comes to selling large numbers of tickets quickly to people scattered over the world) that I've seen few if any other companies do without serious issues.

We've had this discussion before, and I agree with John here, with the slight note that TM does actuvely and maliciously keep competitors out of markets in order to maintain monopolitic conditions.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:31 PM
I agree that if nobody paid scalpers for tickets this year and the next and for x number of more years, eventually scalpers would stop buying up the tickets in anticipation of selling them at mark ups. The market is dynamic and it learns. It may take them a while, but they would learn. But are people disciplined enough to do this? No, of course not. If I valued this festival to be $500 and I DID NOT pay for a ticket that was available for less, I would be acting irrationally. Chunk is asking people to act irrationally. If, somehow, people did not buy ANY tickets from scalpers, it would be because the tickets were perfectly priced in the first place.

Now consider the situation where all of the available tickets are sold either in pre-presale, pre sale, normal sale, and all the tickets that scalpers had were sold to willing buyers by the beginning of the festival. In this situation, every ticket would have a corresponding attending festival goer. Prices would have ranged from $199-~$700 (or whatever the last, most desparate person is willing to pay for that last ticket). This situation would reflect the actual demand for the tickets, and chances are, GV would raise prices the next year because they would rather capture those rents than let scalpers capture it. That way, they can reinvest that money in buying talent, lowering beer prices, etc...

From the purchasers perspective, it doesn't matter who gets the extra money -- the market (and GV) will figure it out eventually and adjust the prices accordingly. Chunck can go ahead and not buy from scalpers. Other people will. GV will raise the prices. Then Chunk will have to pay higher prices -- or not. GV doesn't care about Chunk. GV cares about the 80k people that are willing to pay the prices. You are either on this side of the demand curve or on the other. They don't really care which side any individual person lands on.

Well said.

york707
02-15-2007, 04:32 PM
Yablo, here it is:

If: (the price you value the event) - (the degree to which you are offended by the mark up and the ideals of the scalper) is greater than (the price being offered), you buy. Therefore, the more offended you are and the more your "ideals" kick in, the lower that price needs to be for you to be ok with buying. Your offense and indignation does not have to be static.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:33 PM
The Ticketmaster comment was off the cuff.

If everyone had the same amount of money and the same access to information about lineups, cost and ticketing procedures and times, then you might have a free market situation there. Apart from that, other people are getting screwed. But that's life. I have not done any work because of you assholes.

mountmccabe
02-15-2007, 04:35 PM
I'm turned around to the point where I don't know what we're arguing about.

All I'm saying is this: I agree with chunk that I would not pay 10x (or even 2x) the face value for a ticket to a show I wasn't able to get tickets for. That's my bad for not getting the tickets. And I don't want to reward some prick who bought the tickets solely for the purpose of selling them for a profit

Hypothetical for Yabs: What if the New Pornographers were going to play a set of Buddy Holly songs at a newly reopened Raven Cafe and the tickets sold out. Also it's on a Saturday and your kids are staying over at a friend's house for a birthday party.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:36 PM
Yablo, here it is:

If: (the price you value the event) - (the degree to which you are offended by the mark up and the ideals of the scalper) is greater than (the price being offered), you buy. Therefore, the more offended you are and the more your "ideals" kick in, the lower that price needs to be for you to be ok with buying. Your offense and indignation does not have to be static.

right and the degree my friend is offended by the scalpers is 0, so I bought him a ticket.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:39 PM
Hypothetical for Yabs: What if the New Pornographers were going to play a set of Buddy Holly songs at a newly reopened Raven Cafe and the tickets sold out. Also it's on a Saturday and your kids are staying over at a friend's house for a birthday party.

I'm not sure I'm happy with the idea of The New Pornographers playing Buddy Holly music.

If a friend of mine had tickets and said he couldn't make it and wanted know if I would buy them for $5 over face, I'd buy. Probably go up to $10.

If someone I didn't know was walking up and down the street saying "tickets!", I'd say to myself "FUCK YOU" and go back to my car. I don't engage people for tickets that are clearly selling them to make money. I never have. I'm not going to for this Modest Mouse show. And I can't tell you how badly I want to go. And I live in Missoula where this shit just doesn't happen very often. I missed out. Shame on me.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:41 PM
right and the degree my friend is offended by the scalpers is 0, so I bought him a ticket.

kreutz: I'm not dissing on you at all. I wouldn't have done what your friend did and I wish people wouldn't be so eager to buy scalped tickets, but I'm more pissed that there are a bunch of asswipes selling tickets for way over face value just because they can.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:41 PM
I'm not sure I'm happy with the idea of The New Pornographers playing Buddy Holly music.

If a friend of mine had tickets and said he couldn't make it and wanted know if I would buy them for $5 over face, I'd buy. Probably go up to $10.

If someone I didn't know was walking up and down the street saying "tickets!", I'd say to myself "FUCK YOU" and go back to my car. I don't engage people for tickets that are clearly selling them to make money. I never have. I'm not going to for this Modest Mouse show. And I can't tell you how badly I want to go. And I live in Missoula where this shit just doesn't happen very often. I missed out. Shame on me.

Yes, but dont regrets suck?

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 04:42 PM
Yes, but dont regrets suck?

Not as bad as feeling exploited.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:42 PM
kreutz: I'm not dissing on you at all. I wouldn't have done what your friend did and I wish people wouldn't be so eager to buy scalped tickets, but I'm more pissed that there are a bunch of asswipes selling tickets for way over market value just because they can.

It pisses me off also. I told my friend to hurry and buy his ticket, but he couldnt save fast enough (ie car payment, house payment, bills..etc)

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:44 PM
Not as bad as feeling exploited.

touche...there is a balance between the two that that one weighs when making financial decisions. It is a personal decision that affects everyone.

ayates
02-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Not as bad as feeling exploited.

http://imageigloo.com/images/801product_detail_g_said.gif

suprefan
02-15-2007, 04:45 PM
Or you'll be at suprefan's mercy.


Ouch, that hurt yablo........

mountmccabe
02-15-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm not sure I'm happy with the idea of The New Pornographers playing Buddy Holly music.

If a friend of mine had tickets and said he couldn't make it and wanted know if I would buy them for $5 over face, I'd buy. Probably go up to $10.

If someone I didn't know was walking up and down the street saying "tickets!", I'd say to myself "FUCK YOU" and go back to my car. I don't engage people for tickets that are clearly selling them to make money. I never have. I'm not going to for this Modest Mouse show. And I can't tell you how badly I want to go. And I live in Missoula where this shit just doesn't happen very often. I missed out. Shame on me.

Haha. I'd say your friend (hypothetically) was a jerk. Scalping to friends is ridic.

Also the New Pornos playing Buddy Holly was just a quick stab at something ridiculous that you couldn't bear to miss. I'd certainly find it interesting. But we probably should not focus on that particular part of my post. I mean, the Modest Mouse gig was probably good enough and that's what you were talking about non-hypothetically.

Oh well. I guess the point is that you're a stronger/more principled man than I. Or maybe you just don't like engaging people in that situation. I pretty much hated trying to sell those Pitchy tickets and I'm glad it went really quickly.

And really the only times I can thinking of when I've dealt with scalpers is for sporting events where I've paid less than face. And I really enjoyed that.


Also I was gonna say check craigslist because maybe there'll be nice people with an extra ticket but I did myself and all I see are people saying they want tickets. Damn.

kreutz2112
02-15-2007, 04:52 PM
Haha. I'd say your friend (hypothetically) was a jerk. Scalping to friends is ridic.

Also the New Pornos playing Buddy Holly was just a quick stab at something ridiculous that you couldn't bear to miss. I'd certainly find it interesting. But we probably should not focus on that particular part of my post. I mean, the Modest Mouse gig was probably good enough and that's what you were talking about non-hypothetically.

Oh well. I guess the point is that you're a stronger/more principled man than I. Or maybe you just don't like engaging people in that situation. I pretty much hated trying to sell those Pitchy tickets and I'm glad it went really quickly.

And really the only times I can thinking of when I've dealt with scalpers is for sporting events where I've paid less than face. And I really enjoyed that.


Also I was gonna say check craigslist because maybe there'll be nice people with an extra ticket but I did myself and all I see are people saying they want tickets. Damn.

(Craigslist) Thats where I found the ticket that started this thread. I had to look in every city in CA and there was this one guy who was selling sunday tickets for $180 compared to everyone else who was selling them on ebay "buy it nows" for around $600. Some of the bids on ebay are up in the $400 range for sunday tickets.

Yablonowitz
02-15-2007, 05:05 PM
There's nothing but people looking to buy Modest Mouse tickets on Craigslist. They put them in a venue that seats 1,000 people. Concert sold out in less than 12 hours.

This (http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2007/02/15/letters/letters5.txt) man shares my pain and anger.

york707
02-15-2007, 05:12 PM
The only time I pay for scalped tickets is for World Series tickets and when my girlfriend has reminded me the morning a show's tickets are on sale to not forget to get them and instead of waiting by my computer until 5 pm on Friday, I go out drinking and wake up on Saturday to find the show sold out.