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instinct
02-17-2009, 04:39 PM
According to the AP, Coachella will have a conservative talk radio stage this year.. here is the all-star line-up:

Friday: SEAN HANNITY, John and Ken, Michael Savage

Saturday: MARK LEVIN, Larry Elder, Kennedy and Suits

Sunday: RUSH LIMBAUGH, Bill O'Reily vs Glenn Beck, Dr. Laura


It's time for Coachella to get schooled!!!

psycobetabuckdown
02-17-2009, 04:52 PM
Fuck that, where's Glenn Beck? I thought Coachella was supposed to have edgy acts.

edit: Any chance of Alex Jones opening on Friday?

PS - you must be bored to make this thread

instinct
02-17-2009, 04:56 PM
Updated: Bill O'Reily vs Glenn special 2x4 dj set!!

instinct
02-17-2009, 04:58 PM
Fuck that, where's Glenn Beck? I thought Coachella was supposed to have edgy acts.

edit: Any chance of Alex Jones opening on Friday?

PS - you must be bored to make this thread

Jones will be at Stagecoach battling Al Franken to death.

I'm an alias...
02-17-2009, 05:08 PM
PS - you must be bored to make this thread

Or from Orange County.

SubBass49
02-17-2009, 05:29 PM
Can we bring eggs to lob (or fast-pitch)?

instinct
02-17-2009, 05:32 PM
No eggs, but you can bring Anderson Cooper and the lesbian chick who wears big glasses.

weeklymix
02-17-2009, 05:34 PM
Keith Olbermann fights Brit Hume on Thursday for the campers?

SubBass49
02-17-2009, 05:55 PM
No eggs, but you can bring Anderson Cooper and the lesbian chick who wears big glasses.

How about frozen water bottles instead?

instinct
02-17-2009, 06:02 PM
How about frozen water bottles instead?

How typical of a liberal wanting to solve their differences through violence.

TallGuyCM
02-17-2009, 06:59 PM
How typical of a liberal wanting to solve their differences through violence.

Right, the liberals elected the president who was in office when we bombed Iraq.

SubBass49
02-17-2009, 07:42 PM
How typical of a liberal wanting to solve their differences through violence.

I never said anything about solving differences.

woogie846
02-17-2009, 10:26 PM
I vote for a roast of Alan Colmes featuring roast master Hannity.

brando4n82
02-17-2009, 10:58 PM
I'm actually a fan of Papa O'Reilly. I tried to get tickets for his appearance at the Reagan Library, but came up empty =(

NightGoat
02-17-2009, 11:15 PM
I guess we just found out where Henry Rollins will be doing all his tackling for the weekend.

WhyTheLongFace
02-17-2009, 11:20 PM
Saturday needs adds


/Typical Coacheller

Shooters08
02-17-2009, 11:50 PM
Keith Olbermann fights Brit Hume on Thursday for the campers?

Keith Olbermann would whoop some ass

That would be fun to watch

psycobetabuckdown
02-18-2009, 07:35 PM
That's pretty funny that Brit Hume and Anderson Cooper are part of this discussion, even though they are supposed to be impartial.

Seriously though, I would skip My Bloody Valentine to watch Ron Paul talk about the economy and such.

BKsaysAction!
02-18-2009, 07:41 PM
Is it a dunk tank?

Cheddar's Cousin
02-18-2009, 07:44 PM
Saturday needs adds


/Typical Coacheller

Mike Church is the Real Headliner...or so I've heard.

Beef Jerky
02-18-2009, 08:04 PM
No eggs, but you can bring Anderson Cooper and the lesbian chick who wears big glasses.

I want to have crazy sex with Anderson Cooper.

BKsaysAction!
02-18-2009, 09:40 PM
I'd pay 290 to see henry rolins punch rush limbaugh in the face.

bodydown
02-18-2009, 11:42 PM
I'd pay 290 to see henry rolins punch rush limbaugh in the face.

I'd throw in on that.

zajaa
02-19-2009, 12:58 AM
I'm actually a fan of Papa O'Reilly.

orly?

cooperb1
02-19-2009, 01:18 AM
yicks! no to this idea! i hate Conservative,s

Cheddar's Cousin
02-19-2009, 10:55 AM
Way to keep it open minded and tolerant!

SubBass49
02-19-2009, 07:38 PM
Ahhhh...there's no tolerance quite like conservative tolerance...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200901130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810070011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050004

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711010008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200812080003

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810310015

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810210011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808260019

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807170005

http://mediamatters.org/items/200805300010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706290010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706210013

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809190011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809040020

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806240008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150021

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710160001

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704190008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703060014

Reading fun for the whole family!

instinct
02-19-2009, 07:54 PM
Ahhhh...there's no tolerance quite like conservative tolerance...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200901130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810070011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050004

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711010008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200812080003

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810310015

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810210011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808260019

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807170005

http://mediamatters.org/items/200805300010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706290010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706210013

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809190011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809040020

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806240008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150021

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710160001

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704190008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703060014

Reading fun for the whole family!

wow.. great job find some non-biased articles.. media matters is the biggest piece of shit headed by Michael Brock who spent time in a mental hospital.

instinct
02-19-2009, 07:56 PM
Keith Olbermann would whoop some ass

That would be fun to watch



Keith Olbermann is a pussy and could never debate Hannity or Limbaugh.. He would be taken down in a heartbeat.

Thief of Fire
02-19-2009, 07:57 PM
"Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael S. Steele plans an 'off the hook' public relations offensive to attract younger voters, especially blacks and Hispanics, by applying the party's principles to 'urban-suburban hip-hop settings.'

The RNC's first black chairman will 'surprise everyone' when updating the party's image using the Internet and advertisements on radio, on television and in print, he told The Washington Times...

'We want to convey that the modern-day GOP looks like the conservative party that stands on principles. But we want to apply them to urban-surburban hip-hop settings.'"

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/19/steele-gop-needs-hip-hop-makeover/

instinct
02-19-2009, 08:03 PM
"Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael S. Steele plans an 'off the hook' public relations offensive to attract younger voters, especially blacks and Hispanics, by applying the party's principles to 'urban-suburban hip-hop settings.'

The RNC's first black chairman will 'surprise everyone' when updating the party's image using the Internet and advertisements on radio, on television and in print, he told The Washington Times...

'We want to convey that the modern-day GOP looks like the conservative party that stands on principles. But we want to apply them to urban-surburban hip-hop settings.'"

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/19/steele-gop-needs-hip-hop-makeover/

Cool.. That's from the RNC..

Too bad everyone I listed as the headliners is straying away from the Republican Party because they are abandoning their principles by doing shit like this. They strictly call themselves conservatives and don't like to associate with Republicans anymore, especially since the nomination of John McCain.

Trudeau
02-19-2009, 08:51 PM
Seriously though, I would skip My Bloody Valentine to watch Ron Paul talk about the economy and such.

The government is eeeevillll!
We need to return to the gold standard of monetary value!
It's all in the Constitution!

There. Now you can stay and watch MBV.

BKsaysAction!
02-19-2009, 08:58 PM
The "Conservatives" that are moving away from the republican party aren't really Republicans in definition. They're overly religious nationalist who want everything to be exactly the way it was when they were kids. They seriously need to get over it.

biggfoot17
02-19-2009, 10:17 PM
The "Conservatives" that are moving away from the republican party aren't really Republicans in definition. They're overly religious nationalist who want everything to be exactly the way it was when they were kids. They seriously need to get over it.

werd

instinct
02-20-2009, 12:10 AM
The "Conservatives" that are moving away from the republican party aren't really Republicans in definition. They're overly religious nationalist who want everything to be exactly the way it was when they were kids. They seriously need to get over it.

Have you honestly even took an hour of your time to ever listen to any of them?? They rarely mention religion and never put down other religions besides Christianity..

BIGOTS!!

SubBass49
02-20-2009, 06:16 AM
wow.. great job find some non-biased articles.. media matters is the biggest piece of shit headed by Michael Brock who spent time in a mental hospital.

Ummm....attention MORON:

EACH LINK HAS A VIDEO CLIP OR AN AUDIO CLIP.

I could give a fat flying fuck what Media Matters has to say about them in terms of commentary...THEIR OWN WORDS are what damns these "conservative" assholes.

BTW...I'm a social liberal but a fiscal conservative. There is no party that represents me fully, so I tend to side with the one that actually promotes equality.

(Ahhh....just looked at your location...now it all makes sense)

Cheddar's Cousin
02-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Ahhhh...there's no tolerance quite like conservative tolerance...



I get it...we only need to tolerate the tolerant.

Gribbz
02-20-2009, 10:13 AM
Michael Savage spoken word would be hilarious.

SubBass49
02-20-2009, 10:18 AM
Michael Savage spoken word would be hilarious.

He actually has done spoken word poetry on his show before...was much better than his usual drivel and racist/homophobic rants.

Gribbz
02-20-2009, 10:38 AM
I don't care for his political views....but his rants are so funny.

psycobetabuckdown
02-20-2009, 03:22 PM
The government is eeeevillll!
We need to return to the gold standard of monetary value!
It's all in the Constitution!

There. Now you can stay and watch MBV.

Naw, it's just not the same. Besides, I have seen MBV live but not Ron Paul.

Btw that Michael Steele "hip-hop" shit is so predictable and stupid. But then so is Obama's entire life.

SubBass49
02-20-2009, 06:55 PM
Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael S. Steele

http://users.pullman.com/fjstevens/tokens/cec/CECimages/SuperTokenPlain.jpg

It's the, "LOOK! WE LIKE BLACK FOLKS TOO!" move. Cute, but no one is fooled except for die-hard Republicans who didn't need fooling in the first place.

roberto73
02-20-2009, 07:45 PM
"Newly elected Republican National Committee Chairman Michael S. Steele plans an 'off the hook' public relations offensive to attract younger voters, especially blacks and Hispanics, by applying the party's principles to 'urban-suburban hip-hop settings.'

The RNC's first black chairman will 'surprise everyone' when updating the party's image using the Internet and advertisements on radio, on television and in print, he told The Washington Times...

'We want to convey that the modern-day GOP looks like the conservative party that stands on principles. But we want to apply them to urban-surburban hip-hop settings.'"

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/19/steele-gop-needs-hip-hop-makeover/

And what will this "off the hook" Republican/hip-hop convergence look like? Probably something like this:

hYZre8kEsuw

Because nothing says "hip-hop" like a bunch of rich old white guys.

instinct
02-21-2009, 08:13 PM
It's so sad that the people on these boards don't believe in the great principles this country was founded on (capitalism, freedom of religion, slavery). You guys are always preaching tolerance but have no tolerance when it comes to REAL AMERICANS!!!

SubBass49
02-21-2009, 09:07 PM
lol...

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg

instinct
02-22-2009, 08:30 PM
lol...

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg

eh.. doesn't mean I don't really feel that way though. I definitely didn't vote for Obama.

I listen to AM Conservative Talk Radio everyday.. It's a Love/Hate relationship.

BKsaysAction!
02-22-2009, 09:41 PM
It's so sad that the people on these boards don't believe in the great principles this country was founded on (capitalism, freedom of religion, slavery). You guys are always preaching tolerance but have no tolerance when it comes to REAL AMERICANS!!!

The fact that you just said Real Americans proves my point. It's not so much the religous aspect but this Nationalist pride that makes me not like the conservatives so much. That whole speel last election about Real america and Real americans as opposed to people believing in something else, that makes me unamerican because i don't agree with what you do? Fuck it, the fact you said slavery was a great principle and you like outkast baffles me. What are you some kind of Racist Hypocrite?

psycobetabuckdown
02-22-2009, 10:05 PM
lol...

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/obvious_troll.jpg

Wait is this funny because he's trolling or because the only black guy in this pic is serving drinks?

instinct
02-22-2009, 10:28 PM
The fact that you just said Real Americans proves my point. It's not so much the religous aspect but this Nationalist pride that makes me not like the conservatives so much. That whole speel last election about Real america and Real americans as opposed to people believing in something else, that makes me unamerican because i don't agree with what you do? Fuck it, the fact you said slavery was a great principle and you like outkast baffles me. What are you some kind of Racist Hypocrite?



I'm PROUD to be an AMERICAN!!!


Are you!??!?!??

BKsaysAction!
02-22-2009, 10:38 PM
ROFL. This has to be a joke. In that case Mike Hukabee should do standup.

instinct
02-22-2009, 10:57 PM
His show on Fox sucks.. He is the reason Mitt Romney is not our President. America is pretty much doomed.

SubBass49
02-23-2009, 06:14 AM
His show on Fox sucks.. He is the reason Mitt Romney is not our President. America is pretty much doomed.

I think Joseph Smith is the reason Mitt Romney isn't our president...just to clear things up for ya.

psycobetabuckdown
02-23-2009, 06:06 PM
Mitt Romney is not a conservative and he's actually a bit of a douchebag. I dislike Huckabee but at least he's a real person sometimes. Christ, how about that video of Romney ignoring a guy in a wheelchair? Out...of...touch.

BKsaysAction!
02-23-2009, 08:50 PM
Yeah i don't agree with Huckabee's politics at all but you have to give it to him that guy has jokes. Shit he made his campaign a chuck norris joke.

instinct
02-23-2009, 09:34 PM
Mitt Romney is not a conservative and he's actually a bit of a douchebag. I dislike Huckabee but at least he's a real person sometimes. Christ, how about that video of Romney ignoring a guy in a wheelchair? Out...of...touch.

PROOF ROMNEY IS DOWN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8Nq7BglIg

NightGoat
02-24-2009, 12:36 AM
Yeah i don't agree with Huckabee's politics at all but you have to give it to him that guy has jokes. Shit he made his campaign a chuck norris joke.

Huckabee was definitely the most well-spoken person in the debates and he just seems like an all-around nice guy. Too bad he's completely fucking insane

psycobetabuckdown
02-24-2009, 01:12 AM
PROOF ROMNEY IS DOWN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8Nq7BglIg

Oh my lord.


Huckabee was definitely the most well-spoken person in the debates and he just seems like an all-around nice guy. Too bad he's completely fucking insane

This is true - well-spoken, but wrong, and a lot too god-centric. Republicans need to go back to conservatism.

SubBass49
02-24-2009, 03:03 PM
I would actually consider voting Republican if they did a few things:

- dropped the use of religious bigotry
- held to conservative fiscal values
- kept their noses out of people's bedrooms
- guaranteed federal civil rights for all citizens
- legalized & taxed marijuana
- ended the rampant corruption
- faced the reality that taxes play an important role in building a model nation

I may think of more, but that would be a start in winning my vote.

NightGoat
02-24-2009, 03:30 PM
Michael Savage spoken word would be hilarious.

Michael Savage actually used to be a beatnik that ran around with Alan Ginsberg in San Francisco during the 70s, meaning that he used to be the embodiment of the liberal stereotypes people fear to this day. It would also explain his spoken word talents. There is also evidence that he may have participated in gay sex acts during this period. In other words, present day Michael Savage would absolutely hate 1970s Michael Savage. I'm not really sure if this means anything, it's just kind of interesting.

Gribbz
02-24-2009, 03:34 PM
I always thought it was weird that he lives in San Francisco.

marooko
02-24-2009, 03:39 PM
Ahhhh...there's no tolerance quite like conservative tolerance...

http://mediamatters.org/items/200901130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810130009

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810070011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050004

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711010008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200812080003

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810310015

http://mediamatters.org/items/200810210011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200808260019

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807170005

http://mediamatters.org/items/200805300010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200803050008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706290010

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706210013

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809190011

http://mediamatters.org/items/200809040020

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806240008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200801150021

http://mediamatters.org/items/200710160001

http://mediamatters.org/items/200704190008

http://mediamatters.org/items/200703060014

Reading fun for the whole family!

i dont know, liberal tolerance is pretty up there.

Gribbz
02-24-2009, 03:39 PM
I love being a moderate.

NightGoat
02-24-2009, 04:24 PM
We should all take E and dance our asses of at the Conservative Talk Radio tent

BKsaysAction!
02-24-2009, 04:51 PM
The real Idea of Republicans is almost libertarian except they want to have a strong military might for the sake of national security. I used to consider myself a libertarian untill over the last two years when we've seen what happens when leaving stuff up to privite companies to handle things for us. so now i have more trust in the government handling things than companies doing everything. I mean after everything we've learned about Oil companies and these Banking and Insurance firms the government seems like the lesser of two evils. At least we the people have the right to tell our government what to do. Privite firms don't care except for the money.

instinct
02-24-2009, 05:42 PM
I give some blame to the banks, the government and the people in regards to the housing bubble. People bought homes they couldn't afford, they try and say the banks tricked them, but that is retarded. People should figure these things before they buy a house. If I can somehow buy a house for 1 million dollars, but my monthly payments are $1000, I would know something is up.

psycobetabuckdown
02-25-2009, 03:19 PM
I would actually consider voting Republican if they did a few things:

- dropped the use of religious bigotry
- held to conservative fiscal values
- kept their noses out of people's bedrooms
- guaranteed federal civil rights for all citizens
- legalized & taxed marijuana
- ended the rampant corruption
- faced the reality that taxes play an important role in building a model nation

I may think of more, but that would be a start in winning my vote.

Minus the taxes thing, you're pretty much talking about voting for Ron Paul. Yeah, the stuff you're pointing out is pretty much what Republicans should be about.

tomphan1
02-25-2009, 03:23 PM
F... all that bullcrap. It all about Big Bang Bang Roy Masters biaaaatch!!!

psycobetabuckdown
02-25-2009, 03:26 PM
The real Idea of Republicans is almost libertarian except they want to have a strong military might for the sake of national security. I used to consider myself a libertarian untill over the last two years when we've seen what happens when leaving stuff up to privite companies to handle things for us. so now i have more trust in the government handling things than companies doing everything. I mean after everything we've learned about Oil companies and these Banking and Insurance firms the government seems like the lesser of two evils. At least we the people have the right to tell our government what to do. Privite firms don't care except for the money.

Oh no, the housing bubble and the crisis are the result of government regulation and the ineptitude of the Federal Reserve. Private companies aren't "handling" anything for anyone except the well-being of their businesses. It's pretty silly to blame anything on them. It's like giving your lazy fat brother $400 to pay bills and then dropping him off at Sizzler, then blaming him for wasting the money. Yeah, it's his fault but that's what happens when you leave it up to your irresponsible brother to spend his money wisely.

SubBass49
02-26-2009, 12:19 PM
Minus the taxes thing, you're pretty much talking about voting for Ron Paul. Yeah, the stuff you're pointing out is pretty much what Republicans should be about.

Ron Paul's close ties to extremist racist groups turned me off to him. That, and his desire to abolish the Department of Education.

NightGoat
02-26-2009, 01:32 PM
Yeah, the way I see it, if Ron Paul got his way things would quickly devolve into total chaos.

instinct
02-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Ron Paul's close ties to extremist racist groups turned me off to him. That, and his desire to abolish the Department of Education.

If you think Ron Paul is a racists, you probably believe that Obama is a muslim.

instinct
02-26-2009, 04:02 PM
Yeah, the way I see it, if Ron Paul got his way things would quickly devolve into total chaos.

Why?

PlayaDelWes
02-26-2009, 04:17 PM
http://www.drudgereport.com/dc.jpg http://ivo.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/homer-simpson-doh.jpg

instinct
02-26-2009, 04:41 PM
Obama is going to bring us into a deeper deficit.

dank bud ftw
02-26-2009, 05:46 PM
obama is spending more in his first 100 days than bush did over 4 years. unreal.

BKsaysAction!
02-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Got to put money in before you can take it out.

DJdharma
02-26-2009, 06:53 PM
The women of FOX versus the women of CNN !!!
In KY jelly !!!
On E !!!

obzen
02-26-2009, 07:31 PM
Hicks! no to this idea! i hate Conservatives

FIXED.:)

obzen
02-26-2009, 07:37 PM
The fact that you just said Real Americans proves my point. It's not so much the religous aspect but this Nationalist pride that makes me not like the conservatives so much. That whole speel last election about Real america and Real americans as opposed to people believing in something else, that makes me unamerican because i don't agree with what you do? Fuck it, the fact you said slavery was a great principle and you like outkast baffles me. What are you some kind of Racist Hypocrite?

QFT

obzen
02-26-2009, 07:49 PM
I'm PROUD to be an AMERICAN!!!


Are you!??!?!??

YOU SOUND LIKE JOE THE PLUMBER
-REAL AMERICANS ARE EVERYWHERE-ITS NOT OUR FAULT 84% OF PEOPLE(MOSTLY DEMOCRATIC)IN THIS COUNTRY LIVE IN METROPOLITAN AREAS AND THE GOP BASE IS CENTERED IN THE SOUTH(MOST OF WHOM ARE CLOSET RACISTS)-MIGHT AS WELL CALL THEM CONFEDERATES

FUCK NEO-CONS-AND THEIR NO FISCAL RESPONSIBLITY HAVING,NON EFFICIENT TAX-CUT PUSHING,FREE MARKET CAPITALISM DELUSION HAVING DEREGULATING WALLSTREET ASS MOTHERFUCKERS

INTINCTS LOCATION DOES SAY IT ALL

IM LEFT AS FUCK
WE NEED INFRASTRUCTURE AND NEW ENERGY SOURCES/TECH.


IM OUT,PEACE.:afu

DJdharma
02-26-2009, 08:18 PM
Isn't this kind of conversation supposed to take place on the STAGECOACH board !?



Please, President Obama! Leagalize Marijuana Now !!!!

NightGoat
02-26-2009, 08:48 PM
I'm just saying that all I've heard out of the mouth of Ron Paul is he wants to deregulate damn near everything, and we've seen the consequences of deregulation. I agree with him on a few points but I think the bad outweighs the good in his case.

SubBass49
02-26-2009, 09:05 PM
If you think Ron Paul is a racists, you probably believe that Obama is a muslim.

Well, first off, I never said HE was a racist...just that I don't like his ties to racist extremist groups...but when I googled him, I found out that he is INDEED a racist (with bonus homophobe thrown in for good measure):

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/10/paul.newsletters/index.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835179/posts
(you know it's pretty bad when even FREEPERS are calling you a racist anti-semite)



obama is spending more in his first 100 days than bush did over 4 years. unreal.

Hahahaha....Bwahahahaha....oh...holy shit....lol....

Are you for real?

Guess that whole $600 BILLION + for the Iraq war thing slipped your mind?

Turning a surplus into a deficit ring a bell?

Tell me...is it fun being that dumb? Are you easily amused by chewing on your own hand? How about laser pointers...do they keep you occupied for hours on end?

BKsaysAction!
02-26-2009, 10:35 PM
The women of FOX versus the women of CNN !!!
In KY jelly !!!
On E !!!

That would settle it for me. That and a Bill O versus Rollins thunderdome match.

NightGoat
02-26-2009, 10:44 PM
I think I'd rather watch Keith Olbermann and Henry Rollins vs Bill O'Reilly and Jessie "The Body" Ventura in a tag team steel cage match

BKsaysAction!
02-26-2009, 10:53 PM
I think I'd rather watch Keith Olbermann and Henry Rollins vs Bill O'Reilly and Jessie "The Body" Ventura in a tag team steel cage match

Fucken a. That would be awesome but you think olbermann can fight? He has gained some weight so maybe he can stand his ground. Maybe they can use chris mathews as a weapon.

NightGoat
02-26-2009, 11:32 PM
I think Olbermann and O'Reilly are a pretty even match, but Ventura may be a bit too old to go against Rollins. We'd probably have to get someone else to keep the match, y'know, fair and balanced.

SubBass49
02-27-2009, 06:18 AM
I think I'd rather watch Keith Olbermann and Henry Rollins vs Bill O'Reilly and Jessie "The Body" Ventura in a tag team steel cage match

Ventura would pretend to be on O'Reilly's side, and then smash him over the head with a folding chair. He's like me...socially liberal, fiscally conservative. He most likely can't stand the FAUX News people.

obzen
02-27-2009, 07:34 AM
Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews rule!!!!

SubBass49
02-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Matthews gets on my nerves very quickly, and Olbermann gets on my nerves after any extended listening.

That said, Olbermann's "Special Comment" segments during the Bush years were CLASSIC material.

Gribbz
02-27-2009, 01:00 PM
I LOVE when Olberman does NFL highlights. Pretty witty guy.

BKsaysAction!
02-27-2009, 02:01 PM
chris matthews is one of the biggest brown nosers on cable news. He was such a kiss ass to hillary clinton when the elections started that it drove me crazy. He's one of those guys that spits when he talks. I love Olberman and Maddows but their republican bashing gets a little old sometimes, especially when they talk about the same subject on both shows. Fox news is worse but MSNBC is getting down there. What happend to Objectivity and non bias? Shit even John stewart is making fun of both sides and they seem more credible these days and thats supposed to be a fake news show.

obzen
02-27-2009, 02:35 PM
I love being a moderate.

lolz

obzen
02-27-2009, 02:36 PM
fuck CPAC!!

NightGoat
02-27-2009, 03:54 PM
Olbermann just rants too much. The first time was kind of cool, but it got really old after he did it every night. He likes the sound of his own voice

Also, his O'Reilly bashing gets very tiresome. I mean, granted, someone like O'Reilly needs to be called out occasionally, but Keith spends so much energy on criticizing his every move and I think that would be energy better spent on reporting actual, relevant news. If you look around, you can see Keith flipping out at O'Reilly in various segments for things as small as historical inaccuracies. It's a little ridiculous. Besides, I think there's more to it than Olbermann feeling he needs to right the wrongs of the O'Reilly Factor. Olbermann was once a sports announcer on Fox Sports and he was fired, so I think his motivation for Fox has a little more to do with selfish reasons than it does for moral reasons.

Chris Matthews cracks me up though. He's really lame and his mere existence is kind of funny. If I was to say who the most annoying news personality was, I'd say (besides everyone on Fox News) it would have to be Lou Dobbs. That guy really has it out for immigrants.

obzen
02-27-2009, 04:21 PM
Chris Mattews knows whats up man-hes just one of them ol Philly Cats:)

Thief of Fire
02-27-2009, 04:34 PM
_vz1TVpwme0

SubBass49
02-27-2009, 06:42 PM
I miss Tim Russert.

BKsaysAction!
02-27-2009, 06:51 PM
_vz1TVpwme0

WTF? that kid isn't even old enough to vote and he writes a book about what it's like being a conservative. Trust fund kids, the future of the republican party.

obzen
02-27-2009, 07:03 PM
thats all conservatives are good for-saving seats and raising money(for their causes):)

obzen
02-27-2009, 07:04 PM
I miss Tim Russert.
RIP
:nono

SubBass49
02-27-2009, 07:25 PM
WTF? that kid isn't even old enough to vote and he writes a book about what it's like being a conservative. Trust fund kids, the PAST, PRESENT, AND future of the republican party.

Fixed that for you.

BKsaysAction!
02-28-2009, 04:17 PM
Got a point. I think I've seen how these kids turn out before but where?
oh yeah....
POl3eD6IJ7A

obzen
02-28-2009, 04:33 PM
Bateman is definitely a neo-con.

Gribbz
02-28-2009, 04:39 PM
Bateman is definitely a neo-con.

Bateman? Maitre d' at Canal bar?

psycobetabuckdown
03-01-2009, 01:00 PM
Ron Paul's close ties to extremist racist groups turned me off to him. That, and his desire to abolish the Department of Education.

Well okay, but based on the list you gave me, he was the only guy in the election who even came close to satisfying your demands. You are one of those people who is just never happy with ANY of the candidates, even the little guys?

SubBass49
03-01-2009, 05:34 PM
Well okay, but based on the list you gave me, he was the only guy in the election who even came close to satisfying your demands. You are one of those people who is just never happy with ANY of the candidates, even the little guys?

I'm not satisfied with a racist (I'm married to a Black woman and have a bi-racial child) that wants to abolish the Department of Education (I'm a teacher).

Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a viable 3rd party candidate. It just means that I have ethical standards for the people that I would like to represent me. Ron Paul doesn't live up to my standards. Jesse Ventura might, but he's not likely to be taken seriously by enough people to stand a chance.

obzen
03-01-2009, 10:08 PM
just let go of the GOP and vote democrat:)

BKsaysAction!
03-01-2009, 10:11 PM
If only the Green Party had a stonger backing....

obzen
03-01-2009, 10:12 PM
2% of the vote will never suffice...

psycobetabuckdown
03-01-2009, 10:21 PM
I'm not satisfied with a racist (I'm married to a Black woman and have a bi-racial child) that wants to abolish the Department of Education (I'm a teacher).

Doesn't mean I can't appreciate a viable 3rd party candidate. It just means that I have ethical standards for the people that I would like to represent me. Ron Paul doesn't live up to my standards. Jesse Ventura might, but he's not likely to be taken seriously by enough people to stand a chance.

OK but you're ignoring the fact that he's not a racist and you clearly lean Democratic and you're finding reasons not to like someone whose stances match yours on everything except taxes and your personal area of expertise (education). It's seriously like me saying I love 98% of Obama's stances except I can't vote for him because a) he's a Muslim and b) he wants to establish universal healthcare at some point. The first is fabrication, the second is not going to happen within his term anyway. I would never be happy with anyone.

Jesse Ventura is probably running in 2012, and I will probably get behind him because he will probably be the best candidate with any chance.

Department of Education? You must be a public school teacher. Nothing unethical about wanting to eliminate big government, that's conservativism. I personally believe that public schools are something we could do without, but that's taking it a step further.

NightGoat
03-01-2009, 10:36 PM
If Obama pisses me off in his presidency, I'm voting green instead of not voting at all.

The problem with the Green Party is that the Democrats and Republicans have successfully suppressed them. There's a reason the libertarians and the Greens aren't ever invited to debates, y'know. The best that you can do is ignore the whole "if you vote green you might as well not vote" mentality and cast your ballot for their candidate, if you like him/her, and just hope the rest of the united states catches up.

That said, I haven't totally lost faith in the Dems yet, but who knows, that could change.

NightGoat
03-01-2009, 10:52 PM
I personally believe that public schools are something we could do without, but that's taking it a step further.

So you'd like to narrow the options down to paying for private schools or homeschooling? I'm sorry, but that's completely ridiculous. I do believe we need to overhaul the education system, but everyone should be guaranteed at least basic education, regardless of their income. Trying to imagine a generation that wasn't guaranteed basic education is utterly terrifying, at best.

obzen
03-01-2009, 11:04 PM
I personally believe that public schools are something we could do without

really?!
wow-how do you think well be able to be competitive and cultivate the great minds thatll help this nation remain innovative in the future???

reverse-engineering alien technology isnt going to keep us on the cutting edge in every walk of life...

SubBass49
03-02-2009, 05:39 AM
OK but you're ignoring the fact that he's not a racist and you clearly lean Democratic and you're finding reasons not to like someone whose stances match yours on everything except taxes and your personal area of expertise (education). It's seriously like me saying I love 98% of Obama's stances except I can't vote for him because a) he's a Muslim and b) he wants to establish universal healthcare at some point. The first is fabrication, the second is not going to happen within his term anyway. I would never be happy with anyone.

Jesse Ventura is probably running in 2012, and I will probably get behind him because he will probably be the best candidate with any chance.

Department of Education? You must be a public school teacher. Nothing unethical about wanting to eliminate big government, that's conservativism. I personally believe that public schools are something we could do without, but that's taking it a step further.

lol...wow...where to begin...

1. So Ron Paul isn't racist? Wow...I guess we misinterpreted his rant about how the L.A. riots were put down when Blacks went "to pick up their welfare checks."

Guess this quote from his newsletter is also taken out of context:
"The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day -- are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to 'fight the power,' to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible."

Maybe this one was as well:
Carjacking is the "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos."


2. The Obama comparison doesn't hold water. Two completely different scenarios. The Ron Paul quotes come from a newsletter he published called the Ron Paul Political Report. The "Obama is a Muslim" rumor was some made-up bullshit in an attempt to scare people away from voting for him.


3. The Department of Education is a necessary evil. It may be a symbol of bloated government to you and other uninformed people, but it's purpose is to work for federal education funding and enforce privacy & civil rights laws in regards to education. Regardless, Republicans aren't seeking to abolish it in order to save the government money...they want to abolish it so that they can further their goals of forcing religious education/indoctrination on individual states. They want to end "federal meddling" in their schools' curriculums.


4. If you want to get rid of public schools, what is your reasoning? How would that in any way benefit our country or our children? It would be a horrible detriment to our country as a whole...not even just for poor kids. It would eventually push the divide between the haves & the have-nots to the breaking point. Situations like that are then ripe for armed revolution.

biggfoot17
03-02-2009, 04:27 PM
lol...wow...where to begin...

1. So Ron Paul isn't racist? Wow...I guess we misinterpreted his rant about how the L.A. riots were put down when Blacks went "to pick up their welfare checks."

Guess this quote from his newsletter is also taken out of context:
"The criminals who terrorize our cities -- in riots and on every non-riot day -- are not exclusively young black males, but they largely are. As children, they are trained to hate whites, to believe that white oppression is responsible for all black ills, to 'fight the power,' to steal and loot as much money from the white enemy as possible."

Maybe this one was as well:
Carjacking is the "hip-hop thing to do among the urban youth who play unsuspecting whites like pianos."

hahahaha keep going!

psycobetabuckdown
03-02-2009, 05:09 PM
*sigh*

election season's over, are we really still arguing about Ron Paul? The newsletter wasn't written by him, only attributed to him. It was written by someone else in the early 90s. How the hell would he have gotten away with that if it had been written by him? He's been reelected over and over again since then, the only reason "uninformed" people like you think he's a racist is because a) you do shitty swiftboat research and b) you are already inclined not to want to like a Republican. I understand, I used to not like them too. I'm from the Bay Area for fuck's sake.

None of the "Departments" are necessary evils. Evil is evil. When the government gets involved with almost anything, it goes to shit. Our public schools are not anything to be proud of. You should know, being a public school teacher. Why not have exclusively private schools and home schooling? This does not mean exclusively expensive, elite private schools. This means allowing you to choose the quality of your kids' education. The public schools suck, then you can send them to a good private school. If you can't afford that, there will be cheaper, mediocre private schools. Don't like that word "mediocre"? Well it describes our public schools nationwide so you're already dealing with it. And why not let home schooling be a viable option? Why shouldn't education be in the hands of parents, instead of people like SubBass, who lazily Google Republican presidential candidates and then go and tell a bunch of innocent children that Obama is Jesus incarnate?


They want to end "federal meddling" in their schools' curriculums.
I'm not really sure what's wrong with that.

obzen
03-02-2009, 05:16 PM
* And why not let home schooling be a viable option? Why shouldn't education be in the hands of parents, instead of people like SubBass, who lazily Google Republican presidential candidates and then go and tell a bunch of innocent children that Obama is Jesus incarnate?

gop genius in action...:lool

psycobetabuckdown
03-02-2009, 05:19 PM
So you'd like to narrow the options down to paying for private schools or homeschooling? I'm sorry, but that's completely ridiculous. I do believe we need to overhaul the education system, but everyone should be guaranteed at least basic education, regardless of their income. Trying to imagine a generation that wasn't guaranteed basic education is utterly terrifying, at best.

Don't be sorry, it's your opinion. Why should you apologize for it?

Everyone should be educated. However, nowhere does it say that education is a right. It's unrealistic to think that everyone can be equally educated UNLESS we have millions of dedicated parents who are willing to put forth the effort. Kids in Oakland are guaranteed their education and don't do shit with it - maybe their own fault, but probably also because California public schools (especially inner city) are terrible. THIS is terrifying, if you look at dropout rates, crime rates, etc. Or if you just meet some people who've had to endure the shitty public school system. I went to private college, but the few classes I took in public community college were a joke, embarrassing. My freshman year at Cal State University wasn't much more impressive.

It's the same with healthcare - people who support it universally adopted claim it's a "right". It's not a right. It'd be nice to have, and everyone SHOULD have it, but it is by no means guaranteed. We can't even afford to guarantee it. The money doesn't exist. Not to mention that it's questionable to trust a government to provide healthcare when it messes up everything else (education, the economy, the war on drugs, the war on Iraq...itself).

psycobetabuckdown
03-02-2009, 05:21 PM
gop genius in action...:lool

Okay, well you're from downtown LA, you must have met a few people who would've been better off homeschooled than how they turned out. Let's not lie to ourselves here.

obzen
03-02-2009, 05:29 PM
HA!
presumptuous-just like the rest of the elitist neo-cons with their cheap god-complexions and righteous demeanors-face it,pal
y'all are dinosaurs

NightGoat
03-02-2009, 06:15 PM
None of the "Departments" are necessary evils. Evil is evil. When the government gets involved with almost anything, it goes to shit. Our public schools are not anything to be proud of. You should know, being a public school teacher. Why not have exclusively private schools and home schooling? This does not mean exclusively expensive, elite private schools. This means allowing you to choose the quality of your kids' education. The public schools suck, then you can send them to a good private school. If you can't afford that, there will be cheaper, mediocre private schools. Don't like that word "mediocre"? Well it describes our public schools nationwide so you're already dealing with it.


So, pretty much, you're saying that we keep everything the same except make people pay to go to a shitty school? No offense, but that is totally fucking retarded. Why don't we just hold public schooling to a higher standard?

And there's a few problems with home schooling -

1. People simply don't have time to be home schooling their kids. Usually, they're pretty preoccupied with, y'know, supporting their families and shit.

Say a person couldn't afford public schooling, yet they couldn't take the time to sit around and educate their kids because they're trying to earn money to afford basic living costs. How is that fair to the child? Just because his parent/parents cant manage funds doesn't mean they shouldn't at least be given the means to learn educational basics such as reading, history, and math. Maybe, if we ever got to that point, child labor would be legal again so that lazy little bastard could pay for his own damn schooling.

I'm not saying that everyone would be in this situation, or even the majority of the population, but I'd be willing to bet that in a system like that such a scenario is totally possible, and I think that's wrong.

2. Home schooling can also be potentially disastrous. It's a parent teaching their kid(s) whatever they THINK is important, not necessarily what actually IS important. A good example of this is the Christian parents who take their kid out of public school and homeschool them so they're not exposed to the dangers of "sex education" and "evolution".

3. It stunts children's social development. They aren't in an environment that benefits them socially. Every home schooled kid I've met has been a total wreck. They've all been awkward, depressed, lonely and extremely fearful of the world around them. Additionally, every home schooler I've met has maintained a relationship with their mother that is pathetic enough to make Oedipus cringe. I'm not saying home schooling does this to everyone, I'm just speaking from my experiences.

And, by the way, what exactly makes private schools better than public ones? I went through both private and public schools and the both sucked equally, albeit for different reasons.

SubBass49
03-02-2009, 07:27 PM
*sigh*

election season's over, are we really still arguing about Ron Paul? The newsletter wasn't written by him, only attributed to him. It was written by someone else in the early 90s. How the hell would he have gotten away with that if it had been written by him? He's been reelected over and over again since then, the only reason "uninformed" people like you think he's a racist is because a) you do shitty swiftboat research and b) you are already inclined not to want to like a Republican. I understand, I used to not like them too. I'm from the Bay Area for fuck's sake.

None of the "Departments" are necessary evils. Evil is evil. When the government gets involved with almost anything, it goes to shit. Our public schools are not anything to be proud of. You should know, being a public school teacher. Why not have exclusively private schools and home schooling? This does not mean exclusively expensive, elite private schools. This means allowing you to choose the quality of your kids' education. The public schools suck, then you can send them to a good private school. If you can't afford that, there will be cheaper, mediocre private schools. Don't like that word "mediocre"? Well it describes our public schools nationwide so you're already dealing with it. And why not let home schooling be a viable option? Why shouldn't education be in the hands of parents, instead of people like SubBass, who lazily Google Republican presidential candidates and then go and tell a bunch of innocent children that Obama is Jesus incarnate?


I'm not really sure what's wrong with that.


Hahaha...you sure talk a lot of mess for someone who really has no clue what they're talking about.

1. Ron Paul's name is in the title of the newsletter. Why would he allow something like that to go out to the public if he didn't agree with it, EVEN IF he didn't write it? The public assumption is that he wrote it, and he never made any attempts to clear up the confusion until the shit hit the fan and it was mentioned during the primaries. The likelihood is that he agreed completely with it, allowed it to be sent to print, and OK'd it...even if it wasn't written by him directly.

2. The mere fact that someone has been re-elected multiple times has nothing to do with their racist views. Democratic Senator Robert Byrd has been a senator for over 50 years UNINTERRUPTED. He also was a full-fledged member of the KKK and helped to fillibuster the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Strom Thurmond used to hold the record for longest-serving senator before Byrd took it away, and he had run on a strict SEGREGATIONIST TICKET for president in 1948. Ron Paul's district is in Texas...a state that is no stranger to racist & White-supremacist views.

3. People like you always spout out the idea of private schools doing "such a great job" versus public schools, yet you CONSTANTLY ignore the reasons behind that fact.

- PUBLIC SCHOOLS TAKE ANYONE WHO SHOWS UP. THEY HAVE TO.

- PRIVATE SCHOOLS PICK AND CHOOSE WHO IS ALLOWED TO ATTEND AND WHO ISN'T

- PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE HIGHER RATES OF UNINVOLVED PARENTS THAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

- PRIVATE SCHOOLS CAN FINE PARENTS FOR POOR STUDENT BEHAVIOR, PUBLIC SCHOOLS CANNOT.

Now, if ALL students are given the chance to attend private schools a few things will happen.

a). Private schools will "select" the best & brightest students to attend (just as they do now) and public schools will drop in terms of academic performance.

b). Private schools will be forced to accept everyone, and their achievement will drop precipitously.

c). Public school funding will be drained and given to private schools, thus furthering the gap between public & private school funding.

Do you get it now? Parent involvement has more to do with student achievement than which school the students attend. Private school students invariably have more involved parents, and are exposed to more successful people throughout their childhood. If you bothered to read up on the issue, you'd already know that.

4. Home schooling already IS an option. Go for it! Do it! Please! Take some kids off our hands! Our schools are overcrowded and under-funded as it stands.

5. It's cute how you just make shit up when you can't beat my logical arguments. Where'd you get the idea that I "lazily google" Republican candidates? How about the "jesus incarnate" thing? I let kids make up their own minds politically. Hell, I even helped a kid prep for a debate were he was taking McCain's position during the elections. BTW...I'm not the debate teacher. The kid ended up winning his debate because of the help I gave him.

But anyway...you'll still probably not "get it" after this. I've learned that trying to explain things like this logically doesn't seem to get through to rabid anti-government types. They're not politically or intellectually mature enough to weigh the reality of their simplistic goals.

obzen
03-02-2009, 08:32 PM
:yyablo














ha,psyco-what a scholar

instinct
03-03-2009, 04:42 PM
*sigh*

election season's over, are we really still arguing about Ron Paul? The newsletter wasn't written by him, only attributed to him. It was written by someone else in the early 90s. How the hell would he have gotten away with that if it had been written by him? He's been reelected over and over again since then, the only reason "uninformed" people like you think he's a racist is because a) you do shitty swiftboat research and b) you are already inclined not to want to like a Republican. I understand, I used to not like them too. I'm from the Bay Area for fuck's sake.

None of the "Departments" are necessary evils. Evil is evil. When the government gets involved with almost anything, it goes to shit. Our public schools are not anything to be proud of. You should know, being a public school teacher. Why not have exclusively private schools and home schooling? This does not mean exclusively expensive, elite private schools. This means allowing you to choose the quality of your kids' education. The public schools suck, then you can send them to a good private school. If you can't afford that, there will be cheaper, mediocre private schools. Don't like that word "mediocre"? Well it describes our public schools nationwide so you're already dealing with it. And why not let home schooling be a viable option? Why shouldn't education be in the hands of parents, instead of people like SubBass, who lazily Google Republican presidential candidates and then go and tell a bunch of innocent children that Obama is Jesus incarnate?


I'm not really sure what's wrong with that.

Oh man I like you.. plus you have Outkast in your sig which is a major plus.

I work for the public school system, I do not think we should get rid of public schools, but it should really be left up to the states and not the Department of Education. Californians should be able to learn about Global Warming, while Mississippi can do without it. I don't want my children to hear about "Intelligent Design" either. Private schools are so much better mostly due to the fact that their parents are more involved in their education. It's easy to see in at work which childrens parents actually care about their education.

Vouchers would be great, we are spending the tax dollars anyways, why not let people choose what schools their children can go to?

Anyways for SubBass who believes that Ron Paul agrees with everything in the newsletters, must also believe that Obama believes everything Reverend Wright says. Actually Reverend Wright spewed a lot of the stuff that was in Ron Pau'ls newsletter accused black people of doing.

Damn, I can't believe my thread turned so political.

NightGoat
03-03-2009, 05:06 PM
Well, to get back on topic, they should put the tent in the campgrounds as after-festival entertainment.

obzen
03-03-2009, 05:10 PM
Californians should be able to learn about Global Warming, while Mississippi can do without it.
really???
ever heard of Hurricane Season?
comes around June-Oct,we'll be seein them in May-Nov more often these days-i hope folks and elected officials along the gulf would learn more about the cause-
its called Climate Change

different vernacular than that of the gop(wmd,homeland security)but it carries alot of water

no pun intended

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2009, 05:11 PM
public schools are shitty because we spend a fafillion dollars on bombs to kill brown people

obzen
03-03-2009, 05:13 PM
public schools are shitty because we spend a fafillion dollars on bombs to kill brown people

word,b:afu

instinct
03-03-2009, 05:24 PM
really???
ever heard of Hurricane Season?
comes around June-Oct,we'll be seein them in May-Nov more often these days-i hope folks and elected officials along the gulf would learn more about the cause-
its called Climate Change

different vernacular than that of the gop(wmd,homeland security)but it carries alot of water

no pun intended

Yes, Really.

obzen
03-03-2009, 05:33 PM
whatever-the gop on capitol hill is not pertinent to the success of the middle class or the positive growth of the private sector and this countrys infrastructure-republicans have no real core arguments if only taxes and redistribution/class warfare

-conservatives are a geographically-based party for cryin out loud!

instinct
03-03-2009, 05:38 PM
whatever-the gop on capitol hill is not pertinent to the success of the middle class or the positive growth of the private sector and this countrys infrastructure-republicans have no real core arguments if only taxes and redistribution/class warfare

-conservatives are a geographically-based party for cryin out loud!

Can you elaborate on this at all?

BKsaysAction!
03-03-2009, 05:46 PM
What i don't understand is why both of the teachers on this thread support taking money away from education. This has always been where government (especially GOP members) cuts when they need money. How about the no child left behind bullshit, that basicly forces teachers to limit their teaching to the test so the kids can get high scores which takes away the whole ideal of teaching in my opinion. It's the taking away and dumbing down of education that is destroying this country.

instinct
03-03-2009, 05:52 PM
What i don't understand is why both of the teachers on this thread support taking money away from education. This has always been where government (especially GOP members) cuts when they need money. How about the no child left behind bullshit, that basicly forces teachers to limit their teaching to the test so the kids can get high scores which takes away the whole ideal of teaching in my opinion. It's the taking away and dumbing down of education that is destroying this country.

I am not support of No Child Left Behind. I am just saying, that the education system should be left up to the state, and not to the Federal Government.

BKsaysAction!
03-03-2009, 06:36 PM
I'm just afraid some states will rape the shit out of their education and use the funds for their golf courses or pay off bills. Thats why i can't agree with you.

obzen
03-03-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm just afraid some states will rape the shit out of their education and use the funds for their golf courses or pay off bills. Thats why i can't agree with you.

most of those people on the range are republicans,same goes for wallstreet
go figure...:rolleyes

SubBass49
03-03-2009, 08:41 PM
I work for the public school system, I do not think we should get rid of public schools, but it should really be left up to the states and not the Department of Education. Californians should be able to learn about Global Warming, while Mississippi can do without it. I don't want my children to hear about "Intelligent Design" either. Private schools are so much better mostly due to the fact that their parents are more involved in their education. It's easy to see in at work which childrens parents actually care about their education.

Vouchers would be great, we are spending the tax dollars anyways, why not let people choose what schools their children can go to?

Anyways for SubBass who believes that Ron Paul agrees with everything in the newsletters, must also believe that Obama believes everything Reverend Wright says. Actually Reverend Wright spewed a lot of the stuff that was in Ron Pau'ls newsletter accused black people of doing.


How do you not get this?

- Our nation needs federal oversight of education. Otherwise we end up with an even less intelligent nation than we already have. Keep in mind that the people being taught in Mississippi will end up voting for the future leaders of this nation. You really want them to be that stupid?

- Vouchers would be great except for the fact that the best public schools would end up with the best students, the worst public schools would end up with the worst students, and teacher would leave the bad school in DROVES. Vouchers would completely fuck up the idea of a free and equal public education.

- Obama attended a church where Wright preached. Ron Paul PUBLISHED A NEWSLETTER WITH HIS NAME IN THE TITLE. A lot of what Wright preached was logical and realistic (if you listened to the entire sermon rather than the 10 second sound-bite). The stuff in Ron Paul's newsletter was outright racist and untrue. If you can't see the difference, then you're either an idiot or you're not trying very hard.




public schools are shitty because we spend a fafillion dollars on bombs to kill brown people

Indeed. Yet Republicans would love nothing more than to leave education to the states rather than the federal government, even though the federal government has a vested interest in making sure our populace is educated. What a bunch of idiots.




What i don't understand is why both of the teachers on this thread support taking money away from education. This has always been where government (especially GOP members) cuts when they need money. How about the no child left behind bullshit, that basicly forces teachers to limit their teaching to the test so the kids can get high scores which takes away the whole ideal of teaching in my opinion. It's the taking away and dumbing down of education that is destroying this country.

I'm a teacher, and I never said I support taking money away from education. In fact, the way California is going right now, I might be out of a job come June (after 8 years at the same school) because Schwarzenegger and his butt-buddies in Sacramento would rather sell out public education than hurt their wealthy donors' feelings/pocketbooks. Oh, and FUCK NCLB.

obzen
03-03-2009, 10:08 PM
Can you elaborate on this at all?

can i?
yes.

will i?






































...no.

psycobetabuckdown
03-04-2009, 09:51 AM
HA!
presumptuous-just like the rest of the elitist neo-cons with their cheap god-complexions and righteous demeanors-face it,pal
y'all are dinosaurs

Don't call me a neo-con you fucking prick, neo-cons are just like liberals and don't stand for anything I've been talking about.

psycobetabuckdown
03-04-2009, 10:06 AM
So, pretty much, you're saying that we keep everything the same except make people pay to go to a shitty school? No offense, but that is totally fucking retarded. Why don't we just hold public schooling to a higher standard?

And there's a few problems with home schooling -

1. People simply don't have time to be home schooling their kids. Usually, they're pretty preoccupied with, y'know, supporting their families and shit.

Say a person couldn't afford public schooling, yet they couldn't take the time to sit around and educate their kids because they're trying to earn money to afford basic living costs. How is that fair to the child? Just because his parent/parents cant manage funds doesn't mean they shouldn't at least be given the means to learn educational basics such as reading, history, and math. Maybe, if we ever got to that point, child labor would be legal again so that lazy little bastard could pay for his own damn schooling.

I'm not saying that everyone would be in this situation, or even the majority of the population, but I'd be willing to bet that in a system like that such a scenario is totally possible, and I think that's wrong.

2. Home schooling can also be potentially disastrous. It's a parent teaching their kid(s) whatever they THINK is important, not necessarily what actually IS important. A good example of this is the Christian parents who take their kid out of public school and homeschool them so they're not exposed to the dangers of "sex education" and "evolution".

3. It stunts children's social development. They aren't in an environment that benefits them socially. Every home schooled kid I've met has been a total wreck. They've all been awkward, depressed, lonely and extremely fearful of the world around them. Additionally, every home schooler I've met has maintained a relationship with their mother that is pathetic enough to make Oedipus cringe. I'm not saying home schooling does this to everyone, I'm just speaking from my experiences.

And, by the way, what exactly makes private schools better than public ones? I went through both private and public schools and the both sucked equally, albeit for different reasons.

No offense, but you're totally fucking retarded. We ARE paying for public schools. It's called taxes. Even people who don't use them are paying for them. Nothing would change, except people would pay directly to those providing education instead of going through the government. Nothing is free, that's what liberals never understand.

1. Then don't home school. That's why there's choice in life.
2. This is a parent's right, believe it or not. If parents believe their kids shouldn't be taught that Columbus proved the world was round and other bullshit, they have the right to do a better job at home.
3. I agree with this. I think this falls on the parents - they should develop some kind of (private, not government-funded) social meetup or something to that effect. I think parents have as much responsibility to educate their kids as they do to keep them from being fucking weird their whole lives.

Obviously it depends on the school. Some public schools are better. What is always true is that the reason they're better is that they don't involve the government. But generally they have smaller class sizes, more committed teachers, less delinquent students, more of a responsibility to their customers (because they have customers). Parents are more involved.

From personal experience, I hated high school but looking back on it I was glad I went there because it was a better education than I would've had at my local public school. Same with my college and elementary schools. I took one year of public education in college and was unimpressed.

psycobetabuckdown
03-04-2009, 10:27 AM
Hahaha...you sure talk a lot of mess for someone who really has no clue what they're talking about.

1. Ron Paul's name is in the title of the newsletter. Why would he allow something like that to go out to the public if he didn't agree with it, EVEN IF he didn't write it? The public assumption is that he wrote it, and he never made any attempts to clear up the confusion until the shit hit the fan and it was mentioned during the primaries. The likelihood is that he agreed completely with it, allowed it to be sent to print, and OK'd it...even if it wasn't written by him directly.

2. The mere fact that someone has been re-elected multiple times has nothing to do with their racist views. Democratic Senator Robert Byrd has been a senator for over 50 years UNINTERRUPTED. He also was a full-fledged member of the KKK and helped to fillibuster the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Strom Thurmond used to hold the record for longest-serving senator before Byrd took it away, and he had run on a strict SEGREGATIONIST TICKET for president in 1948. Ron Paul's district is in Texas...a state that is no stranger to racist & White-supremacist views.

3. People like you always spout out the idea of private schools doing "such a great job" versus public schools, yet you CONSTANTLY ignore the reasons behind that fact.

- PUBLIC SCHOOLS TAKE ANYONE WHO SHOWS UP. THEY HAVE TO.

- PRIVATE SCHOOLS PICK AND CHOOSE WHO IS ALLOWED TO ATTEND AND WHO ISN'T

- PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE HIGHER RATES OF UNINVOLVED PARENTS THAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

- PRIVATE SCHOOLS CAN FINE PARENTS FOR POOR STUDENT BEHAVIOR, PUBLIC SCHOOLS CANNOT.

Now, if ALL students are given the chance to attend private schools a few things will happen.

a). Private schools will "select" the best & brightest students to attend (just as they do now) and public schools will drop in terms of academic performance.

b). Private schools will be forced to accept everyone, and their achievement will drop precipitously.

c). Public school funding will be drained and given to private schools, thus furthering the gap between public & private school funding.

Do you get it now? Parent involvement has more to do with student achievement than which school the students attend. Private school students invariably have more involved parents, and are exposed to more successful people throughout their childhood. If you bothered to read up on the issue, you'd already know that.

4. Home schooling already IS an option. Go for it! Do it! Please! Take some kids off our hands! Our schools are overcrowded and under-funded as it stands.

5. It's cute how you just make shit up when you can't beat my logical arguments. Where'd you get the idea that I "lazily google" Republican candidates? How about the "jesus incarnate" thing? I let kids make up their own minds politically. Hell, I even helped a kid prep for a debate were he was taking McCain's position during the elections. BTW...I'm not the debate teacher. The kid ended up winning his debate because of the help I gave him.

But anyway...you'll still probably not "get it" after this. I've learned that trying to explain things like this logically doesn't seem to get through to rabid anti-government types. They're not politically or intellectually mature enough to weigh the reality of their simplistic goals.

1. No, he had to go through the same bullshit in previous elections, with people accusing him and him defending, and he still won these elections. He did not just wait until the primaries to talk about it. Should he have to make a yearly speech apologizing for a newsletter he didn't even write? WHY do people focus on dumb shit like this in elections? How about his views, which once again, you are 98% in agreement with? You will never be happy with any candidate. I would understand if he came out and said that shit and got called on it, but then his career would've been over. The reason it's not over is because he has good ideas and...oh yeah, he didn't write it.

2. Way to stereotype Texas. Yeah, they all gave him a pass because they're racist Texans, right? Give me a fucking break. The other two you're talking about are from pre-CRM days, not relevant.

3. I've been saying the whole time that private schools are better, and you're not disagreeing. I don't get why you like public schools. Just because they have to take people?

a) If there are no public schools you don't have to worry about this. But anyway, like I said, I am in favor of having private schools' qualities be related to price and other factors. There would be room for poor people and (for lack of a better word) low-potential people.
b) No they won't. Some private schools will accept some people, some others. That's why they're private. You can't force private entities to do anything for the public good. When I say private, I mean it.
c) NO. They're private. They don't need public funding. Unless the state decides to give it to them. But maybe you didn't understand that I was talking about getting rid of public schools, not just making more private ones. But like instinct, I am really talking about federal funding - if a state wants to have private schools it can choose to do so.

I already got it. I don't think we disagreed, and I don't know why you thought we did. I've gone to private school almost my whole life, I am well aware that they're better and of why they're better.

5. It was just a dig at you for being so lazy with your research on Ron Paul. Obviously I was exaggerating.

obzen
03-04-2009, 11:22 AM
Don't call me a neo-con you fucking prick, neo-cons are just like liberals and don't stand for anything I've been talking about.

yeah im liberated enough to put my left foot up in your boosty ass

punk motherfucker

obzen
03-04-2009, 12:01 PM
is it just a coincidence that conservatives and most neo-cons are geographically based in the south

you know-the same south the where KKK was founded
the same south where The Civil Rights Movement started
the same south that broke from the Union in a stubborn refusal to acknowledge our brown brethren as our equals

the only gop elected officials on capitol hill that are willing to help the American people,regardless if those people are apart of their respective,immediate constituencies or not,are the moderates

you didnt see the conservatives on capital hill supporting the American auto industry-they saw opposing any action as an oppurtuity to hurt the unions by acting like fiscal conservatives while the blue-collar worker is out of a job
(and there are alot of em)

why?


because conservatives,not moderates-represent southern states that happen to have manufacturing plants that make cars for Japanese Corps. like Toyota,Honda,Mazda and Hyndai-who also dont have union workers




fuck conservatives-
inbred,closet racists-hating cause they all got hit with the ugly stick with their bad skin,teeth,hair,genes:)

SubBass49
03-04-2009, 01:22 PM
1. No, he had to go through the same bullshit in previous elections, with people accusing him and him defending, and he still won these elections. He did not just wait until the primaries to talk about it. Should he have to make a yearly speech apologizing for a newsletter he didn't even write? WHY do people focus on dumb shit like this in elections? How about his views, which once again, you are 98% in agreement with? You will never be happy with any candidate. I would understand if he came out and said that shit and got called on it, but then his career would've been over. The reason it's not over is because he has good ideas and...oh yeah, he didn't write it.

Would you put out a newsletter that you have to pay for and publish WITH YOUR NAME IN THE TITLE without proofreading it first? Of course not. That would be IDIOTIC. So either Ron Paul is a racist or a MORON...no two ways about it.




2. Way to stereotype Texas. Yeah, they all gave him a pass because they're racist Texans, right? Give me a fucking break. The other two you're talking about are from pre-CRM days, not relevant.

I have family in Texas, and the stereotype is well-deserved. Even members of my own family are ignorant. It's a way of life down there. I can't fault the people who grew up in it, because they don't know any different. He may not have WON because he's racist, but enough people weren't turned off by his racism to hurt his re-election chances.




3. I've been saying the whole time that private schools are better, and you're not disagreeing. I don't get why you like public schools. Just because they have to take people?

UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM THEY ARE BETTER. Jesus Christ you're stupid. Did you even read what I wrote? If you do vouchers, THEY WILL EITHER CHERRY PICK THE GOOD STUDENTS OR THEY WILL SINK WHEN THEY TAKE ON THE CHILDREN OF UNINTERESTED PARENTS (you know, the kids public schools teach under the current system). You want to fix public schools? Force parents to give a shit about their children. Force parents to act like parents. Force parents to actually discipline their children, and set a good example for them. THEN public schools will improve. Oh, and I like public schools because they're one of the few equalizers in this nation. It's our attempt at giving everyone as close to a fair start as we can.




a) If there are no public schools you don't have to worry about this. But anyway, like I said, I am in favor of having private schools' qualities be related to price and other factors. There would be room for poor people and (for lack of a better word) low-potential people.

Hahahaha.....WTF are you even talking about? This makes no sense. So we could be like a 3rd world nation and have everyone PAY to attend school? You're a fucking idiot. "Room for poor people?" Hahaha...like you're storing them for later. You're an elitist prick man...you really are. Living proof of why private schools are a bad idea.




b) No they won't. Some private schools will accept some people, some others. That's why they're private. You can't force private entities to do anything for the public good. When I say private, I mean it.

There's the issue...you can't force them to do anything for the public good. EDUCATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD. An educated populace is IMPORTANT for the progress of our nation. If you disagree, there's going to be no talking to you.




c) NO. They're private. They don't need public funding. Unless the state decides to give it to them. But maybe you didn't understand that I was talking about getting rid of public schools, not just making more private ones. But like instinct, I am really talking about federal funding - if a state wants to have private schools it can choose to do so.

What the fuck do you think vouchers are? PUBLIC FUNDING...PAID FOR WITH TAXES.

Did you have an IEP at your private school? If so, I'll be nicer.

NightGoat
03-04-2009, 05:12 PM
SubBass, IEPs don't always necessarily mean someone is slow. I was in special education classes (meaning I had a yearly IEP meeting) and I could articulately debate in government class, write 5 point essays, and read through about 5 books a month while the rest of the class was reading "Catcher in the Rye" and stumbling on the word "highball". My friend that I met in a special ed class actually skipped the whole community college route and was accepted to a 4 year college and is majoring in computer programming. So yeah, I agree with everything else you said, but just keep in mind that not everyone that has an IEP is slow.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-04-2009, 05:20 PM
republican policies are basically designed to help people who don't need help (here, save some money on the private school you're already sending your kids to!) and through pretty genius (albeit entirely evil) manipulation of fears about gays, browns, and communists they've managed to get a lot of people who won't be helped by their policies to vote for them anyway.

fuck 'em.

BKsaysAction!
03-04-2009, 05:30 PM
I'll just say that without the federal government taking our money in taxes for education we wouldn't have the education system we even have today. Our education system would fail so fast and privite schools would jack up their prices to keep their schools elite that it would screw the kids who parents either can't afford to pay for new clothes let alone schools or don't care about their kids at all. If you've ever noticed some people don't do things unless they're forced to it's sad but true.

Harrisment
03-04-2009, 05:39 PM
is it just a coincidence that conservatives and most neo-cons are geographically based in the south

you know-the same south the where KKK was founded
the same south where The Civil Rights Movement started
the same south that broke from the Union in a stubborn refusal to acknowledge our brown brethren as our equals

the only gop elected officials on capitol hill that are willing to help the American people,regardless if those people are apart of their respective,immediate constituencies or not,are the moderates

you didnt see the conservatives on capital hill supporting the American auto industry-they saw opposing any action as an oppurtuity to hurt the unions by acting like fiscal conservatives while the blue-collar worker is out of a job
(and there are alot of em)

why?


because conservatives,not moderates-represent southern states that happen to have manufacturing plants that make cars for Japanese Corps. like Toyota,Honda,Mazda and Hyndai-who also dont have union workers




fuck conservatives-
inbred,closet racists-hating cause they all got hit with the ugly stick with their bad skin,teeth,hair,genes:)

I was born and still live in Texas and as a bleeding heart liberal I take great offense to this generalization.

NightGoat
03-04-2009, 05:49 PM
I was born and still live in Texas and as a bleeding heart liberal I take great offense to this generalization.

Yeah, redneck types don't just live in the south and the midwest and whatnot. I've lived in California all my life and you meet rednecks out here too. If you have ever taken a trip up to Clear Lake County you'd know what I'm talking about.

SubBass49
03-04-2009, 08:02 PM
SubBass, IEPs don't always necessarily mean someone is slow. I was in special education classes (meaning I had a yearly IEP meeting) and I could articulately debate in government class, write 5 point essays, and read through about 5 books a month while the rest of the class was reading "Catcher in the Rye" and stumbling on the word "highball". My friend that I met in a special ed class actually skipped the whole community college route and was accepted to a 4 year college and is majoring in computer programming. So yeah, I agree with everything else you said, but just keep in mind that not everyone that has an IEP is slow.

Yeah, I know. I have some brilliant students with IEPs...I was just fuckin' with him.

instinct
03-04-2009, 08:31 PM
Funny you guys are talking about IEPS, I work in Special Ed, and all the students have them, I didn't know that the general population knew what they were.

That stuff about the South and KKK and rednecks is just ignorant.

- Abraham Lincoln was a Conservative
- Martin Luther King was a Conservative
- Democrats fought for the Jim Crow Laws
- Democrats started the KKK

BKsaysAction!
03-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Yeah, redneck types don't just live in the south and the midwest and whatnot. I've lived in California all my life and you meet rednecks out here too. If you have ever taken a trip up to Clear Lake County you'd know what I'm talking about.

Yeah the town i live in is very republican ultra conservative religious redneckish town and its in Cali as well. Trying to have a political conversation with anybody here is very sketchy. At my job i was called the Liberal and was ganged up on when we got into debates about the election or whatnot. I honestly think i had more likeminded friends back east in SC than out here. It's been proven the farther you live away from Cities the more conservative it gets. I plan to leave the suburbs as soon as i can.

obzen
03-04-2009, 08:53 PM
I was born and still live in Texas and as a bleeding heart liberal I take great offense to this generalization.

im sorry you feel that way-but some stereotypes carry some validity,clearly it is so in this case

ive spent plenty of time in the Texas/New Mexico area-
the prevelant attitiude is conservative/dated and dare i say backwards-and this includes friends/family/and acquaintances,mind you

the problem is theres too much of a rural mindset-theyre not used to the melting pot like major metropolitan areas are(Houston is kinda sprawling but besides that its all sticks pretty much for that quad)-the rural folks have a different cultural assimilation,and its a lagging indicator of where the other 80%(approx.)of the population is at as a nation

-fuck all that small town-real american shit-we're a nation of immigrants-we aint gotta lie to kick it-we're all Americans

fuck that conservative shit

BKsaysAction!
03-04-2009, 08:58 PM
-fuck all that small town-real american shit-we're a nation of immigrants-we aint gotta lie to kick it-we're all Americans

Agreed

Harrisment
03-04-2009, 09:02 PM
im sorry you feel that way-but some stereotypes carry some validity,clearly it is so in this case

ive spent plenty of time in the Texas/New Mexico area-
the prevelant attitiude is conservative/dated and dare i say backwards-and this includes friends/family/and acquaintances,mind you

the problem is theres too much of a rural mindset-theyre not used to the melting pot like major metropolitan areas are(Houston is kinda sprawling but besides that its all sticks pretty much for that quad)-the rural folks have a different cultural assimilation,and its a lagging indicator of where the other 80%(approx.)of the population is at as a nation

-fuck all that small town-real american shit-we're a nation of immigrants-we aint gotta lie to kick it-we're all Americans

fuck that conservative shit

Yeah, unfortunately you are right. There are a ton of close minded people down here and it's fucking difficult sometimes. For the most part though I just feel sorry for those people and take comfort in the fact that I actually try to educate myself on issues rather than just being an ignorant dumbfuck like so many people. Even so, I still love Texas and there are plenty of people here with an open mind. We just get drowned out by the idiots. :)

obzen
03-04-2009, 09:15 PM
Funny you guys are talking about IEPS, I work in Special Ed, and all the students have them, I didn't know that the general population knew what they were.

That stuff about the South and KKK and rednecks is just ignorant.

- Abraham Lincoln was a Conservative
- Martin Luther King was a Conservative
- Democrats fought for the Jim Crow Laws
- Democrats started the KKK

conservatives by definition want to preserve the lay of the law like it was back in the day-i can understand Honest Abes argument-but its the 21st century now
-get w/with it-
these aint the frontier days

government cant just tell the people-sorry youre on your own-theres close to 350 million americans now
theres just too many people these days to just let shit take its natural course
and to think the stock markets will fix themselves is just plain ignorant
things have to change-

for example,we need a progressive tax system:)

and besides-it was the conservative ideals of free-market capitalism and deregulatory influences that perpetuated predatory loaning-
banks like Countrywide were able to securitize sub-prime loans(many of which were made around 2005)and sell them as assets to investors
-thats free trade-not fair trade,and an example of why conservative ideals are fucking alot of honest working families and this country

fuckin banks,running amok

it wasnt because of lazy minorities taking loans from fannie mae like conservatives(of course)were alluding to

fuckin racists

obzen
03-04-2009, 09:17 PM
Even so, I still love Texas and there are plenty of people here with an open mind. We just get drowned out by the idiots. :)

thats cool,mein-their are alot of fine hynas in Texas!:thu

NightGoat
03-04-2009, 11:11 PM
Yeah the town i live in is very republican ultra conservative religious redneckish town and its in Cali as well. Trying to have a political conversation with anybody here is very sketchy. At my job i was called the Liberal and was ganged up on when we got into debates about the election or whatnot. I honestly think i had more likeminded friends back east in SC than out here. It's been proven the farther you live away from Cities the more conservative it gets. I plan to leave the suburbs as soon as i can.

Yeah, I live in La Crescenta, which is about 30 minutes outside of LA. There's a few liberal people here, but for the most part it's a little bit of redneck conservatism mixed in with that middle class, white picket fence American idealist conservatism.

SubBass49
03-05-2009, 06:00 AM
That stuff about the South and KKK and rednecks is just ignorant.

- Abraham Lincoln was a Conservative
- Martin Luther King was a Conservative
- Democrats fought for the Jim Crow Laws
- Democrats started the KKK

Lincoln & the Republican party as a whole were anti-slavery during the late 1800s. The Republican Party shifted though during the late reconstruction years to a more anti-Black, anti-immigrant stance. I suggest you read Sundown Towns by James W. Loewen (http://www.uvm.edu/~jloewen/sundowntowns.php) for a real eye-opener (not only on the Republican party's shift, but on racism today in America).

obzen
03-05-2009, 07:31 AM
conservatives-they talk about how they want 'less government'
but they werent saying anything when Dick Cheney was expanding his 'role' as VP-or that warrantless wire-tapping shit for that matter...

hypocrites.

psycobetabuckdown
03-05-2009, 07:07 PM
conservatives-they talk about how they want 'less government'
but they werent saying anything when Dick Cheney was expanding his 'role' as VP-or that warrantless wire-tapping shit for that matter...

hypocrites.

Some of them were. I was. Glenn Beck was. Ron Paul was. Rush Limbaugh wasn't. You truly don't know a thing about conservatism or what it means - you just generalize them into the mainstream neo-con majority that has arisen over the past couple decades. I'll give you a hint: George Bush was not a particularly conservative president.

psycobetabuckdown
03-05-2009, 07:24 PM
Jesus, do you have to be such a fucking asshole? You must be a young fucking teacher to be so immature in a debate. Calm the fuck down or shut up.


Would you put out a newsletter that you have to pay for and publish WITH YOUR NAME IN THE TITLE without proofreading it first? Of course not. That would be IDIOTIC. So either Ron Paul is a racist or a MORON...no two ways about it.

Possible he's too fucking busy to oversee everything that his aides do? He fired the guy who wrote it for god's sake. If you never give any politician a break, you will literally never be happy with any politician. You haven't denied this and it's obvious why.


I have family in Texas, and the stereotype is well-deserved. Even members of my own family are ignorant. It's a way of life down there. I can't fault the people who grew up in it, because they don't know any different. He may not have WON because he's racist, but enough people weren't turned off by his racism to hurt his re-election chances.

You're just like Rush Limbaugh and the neo-cons accusing San Francisco - yeah, the whole fucking city - of being gay, valueless heathen liberal sodomizers. Really. You must've been terrified Obama wouldn't be elected because of his race.


UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM THEY ARE BETTER. Jesus Christ you're stupid. Did you even read what I wrote? If you do vouchers, THEY WILL EITHER CHERRY PICK THE GOOD STUDENTS OR THEY WILL SINK WHEN THEY TAKE ON THE CHILDREN OF UNINTERESTED PARENTS (you know, the kids public schools teach under the current system). You want to fix public schools? Force parents to give a shit about their children. Force parents to act like parents. Force parents to actually discipline their children, and set a good example for them. THEN public schools will improve. Oh, and I like public schools because they're one of the few equalizers in this nation. It's our attempt at giving everyone as close to a fair start as we can.

We have a different goddamn opinion. Jesus Christ I must be stupid. I didn't say a thing about vouchers so you're talking out your ass. Did you even read what I wrote? You haven't said why my idea wouldn't work, you just keep reiterating your idea. If that isn't the state of political discussion today...

And no, the "cherry pick" argument does not address my idea. Read slowly and take your time.



Hahahaha.....WTF are you even talking about? This makes no sense. So we could be like a 3rd world nation and have everyone PAY to attend school? You're a fucking idiot. "Room for poor people?" Hahaha...like you're storing them for later. You're an elitist prick man...you really are. Living proof of why private schools are a bad idea.

We DO pay to attend school, like I pointed out earlier. Do you understand the concept of taxes? Why do you think paying indirectly through taxes is better than paying directly to those providing the service? I'm a fucking idiot elitist prick though, excuse me for thinking (take some advil and calm down, really).


There's the issue...you can't force them to do anything for the public good. EDUCATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR THE PUBLIC GOOD. An educated populace is IMPORTANT for the progress of our nation. If you disagree, there's going to be no talking to you.

We have differing opinions about how to bring about that public good. It's the same for healthcare - it's for the public good, but that doesn't mean it should be run by, funded by or provided by the government.



What the fuck do you think vouchers are? PUBLIC FUNDING...PAID FOR WITH TAXES.

I'm not fucking Steve Forbes. I didn't say anything about vouchers. You seem to be arguing with some preloaded conservative image in your brain instead of debating the things I am bringing up.


Did you have an IEP at your private school? If so, I'll be nicer.

Don't know what an IEP is, so I guess not. But should a teacher really be mocking this program when apparently it's for kids with special needs? Remind me to avoid sending any kids I might have to your school.

obzen
03-05-2009, 07:38 PM
Some of them were. I was. Glenn Beck was. Ron Paul was. Rush Limbaugh wasn't. You truly don't know a thing about conservatism or what it means - you just generalize them into the mainstream neo-con majority that has arisen over the past couple decades. I'll give you a hint: George Bush was not a particularly conservative president.

no but his VP(Cheney)was a conservative
-and he handled alot of the foreign policy/homeland security <--(neo-con lingo)
-that makes him a hypocrite when it comes to his self-imposed expanded influence in washington and the invasion of the peoples privacy


and no,Bush was not a fiscal conservative
but the right(conservatives) are the base of the gop and thats because their ideals are the gist of the republican agenda more often than not-and the only ideal of conservatism that has a fighting chance right now are taxes-but not even that argument is credible from the gop given the last 8 years



im tellin you-the gop these days have nothing constructive to bring to the table-
conservatives are still old,southern and white!!!
and the only thing theyve been good for lately is raising money for their interests and saving seats




youre not gonna school me,mein
dont trip:)

NightGoat
03-05-2009, 07:43 PM
I think the problem you two are having is that you're disagreeing on what constitutes as conservatism. You guys should come to a mutual understanding of the definition of conservatism before you guys keep calling each other douchebags and assholes and whatnot.

obzen
03-05-2009, 07:49 PM
im not losing my cool-dont trip:)

SubBass49
03-05-2009, 08:39 PM
psycobetabuckdown -

The whole "school choice" argument is about one of two things.

1. Vouchers - everyone can pick their school (even private ones) and use the government voucher to pay for it. This is the classic neocon con-job, used to dupe stupid people into thinking they somehow want to help their precious snowflakes.

2. Classist Stupidity - All public schools are abolished, and people pay for what they can afford. This is the system in place in most African nations. So far (since you're so offended that I thought you'd want vouchers) this seems to be the one you want. Therefore my assumption that you have special needs.

Argument is done.

You're so anti-government that you'd prefer to knock 200+ years of educational progress back to the stone-age rather than fully fund equal public education for all American children. That makes you either an idiot or a soulless prick.

Guess what happens in nations with pay-to-play school systems when a family can't afford schools? The kids don't go. They end up dirt-poor. They form militias. They rob and kill to survive. Eventually, if they live in a nation where the wealthy control everything, they tend to be fond of armed revolution. Guess who the first targets are?

obzen
03-05-2009, 09:49 PM
either these fucks dont get it-or they get a kick out of acting a fool:dumbo

BKsaysAction!
03-06-2009, 12:37 AM
I think it's time for new parties.

obzen
03-06-2009, 07:33 AM
its just a matter of time until conservatives manage to completely sever themselves from the gop

WALRUS
03-06-2009, 11:15 AM
im sorry you feel that way-but some stereotypes carry some validity,clearly it is so in this case

ive spent plenty of time in the Texas/New Mexico area-
the prevelant attitiude is conservative/dated and dare i say backwards-and this includes friends/family/and acquaintances,mind you

the problem is theres too much of a rural mindset-theyre not used to the melting pot like major metropolitan areas are(Houston is kinda sprawling but besides that its all sticks pretty much for that quad)-the rural folks have a different cultural assimilation,and its a lagging indicator of where the other 80%(approx.)of the population is at as a nation

-fuck all that small town-real american shit-we're a nation of immigrants-we aint gotta lie to kick it-we're all Americans

fuck that conservative shit


america is a continent not a country, fucker,

obzen
03-06-2009, 01:25 PM
slurp balls,lame fuck.

lickety_spit
03-10-2009, 05:07 AM
nationalism =/= patriotism

obzen
03-10-2009, 09:56 AM
^youre fuckin kiddin me right?!

do you even know the ideologies of the right considering your statement and that abomination of an avatar?!

lickety_spit
03-10-2009, 05:26 PM
^youre fuckin kiddin me right?!

do you even know the ideologies of the right considering your statement and that abomination of an avatar?!

what are you talking about?
i very simply stated that nationalism is not equal to patriotism. you don't have to have a nationalist attitude to be patriotic. no fucking kidding going on here. did you misunderstand where i was going with that?

obzen
03-10-2009, 06:41 PM
is that Sarah Palin in your avatar?
are you aware that she is a die-hard conservative?

DO YOU REALIZE THAT CONVSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY INCLUDES THE ILL-FATED DELUSION THAT IS FREE MARKET CAPITALISM AND THE DEREGULATORY INFLUENCES THAT LEAD TO PREDATORY LOANING FROM THE SAME BANKS THAT SECURITIZED BAD MORTGAGES AND SOLD THEM ON WALLSTREET WHICH SUBSEQUENTLY LEAD TO OUR GOVERNMENT HAVING TO NATIONALIZE/SEMI-NATIONALIZE OUR BIGGEST/OLDEST BANKS IN ORDER TO KEEP THE WORLD ECONOMY FROM COLLAPSING...WELL,DO YOU?!!?

NightGoat
03-10-2009, 08:19 PM
dude, Lickety didn't say anything mildly conservative in that last post.

psycobetabuckdown
03-10-2009, 09:51 PM
psycobetabuckdown -

The whole "school choice" argument is about one of two things.

1. Vouchers - everyone can pick their school (even private ones) and use the government voucher to pay for it. This is the classic neocon con-job, used to dupe stupid people into thinking they somehow want to help their precious snowflakes.

2. Classist Stupidity - All public schools are abolished, and people pay for what they can afford. This is the system in place in most African nations. So far (since you're so offended that I thought you'd want vouchers) this seems to be the one you want. Therefore my assumption that you have special needs.

And there's no chance that what I'm talking about doesn't fall into either category? Not everything is as simple as you pretend it is.

psycobetabuckdown
03-10-2009, 09:56 PM
its just a matter of time until conservatives manage to completely sever themselves from the gop

Right, I hope so. I don't really understand your argument about conservatives being old, white Cheney types when you admit here that conservatives and Republicans are different things. I'm a conservative and registered Republican, but only Republican because I wanted to vote for a Republican candidate in the primary.

Dick Cheney is not a pure conservative - conservativism requires less spending (including war spending) and a non-interventionist foreign policy, like the founders talked about.

I don't think a lot of GOP or Dem politicians bring much constructive to the table. That includes Obama's "stimulus" plan.

zajaa
03-10-2009, 10:05 PM
2. Classist Stupidity - All public schools are abolished, and people pay for what they can afford. This is the system in place in most African nations.

...

Guess what happens in nations with pay-to-play school systems when a family can't afford schools? The kids don't go. They end up dirt-poor. They form militias. They rob and kill to survive. Eventually, if they live in a nation where the wealthy control everything, they tend to be fond of armed revolution. Guess who the first targets are?

your supposed correlation between vouchers and african militias is a pretty ludicrous stretch.

i think the issue is as simple as parents of privately-schooled children not wanting to have to shell out tax dollars to a school system that they're not using, on top of what they're paying for tuition.

SubBass49
03-10-2009, 10:31 PM
zajaa -

Taxes are a necessity to have a society that functions.

Though one may not have children enrolled in a public school, they still reap the benefits of having an educated populace (lower crime rates, more functional society, etc.), therefore they should still be required to invest in said schools.

By the way, the amount of money per taxpayer that is spent on public schools is minimal for the reward that is tied to public education. I seriously invite you & psycho to check out the difference between our nation and those where school is a pay-as-you-go service. Honestly compare the two systems. Be real about which you prefer.

zajaa
03-10-2009, 11:01 PM
zajaa -

Taxes are a necessity to have a society that functions.

Though one may not have children enrolled in a public school, they still reap the benefits of having an educated populace (lower crime rates, more functional society, etc.), therefore they should still be required to invest in said schools.

By the way, the amount of money per taxpayer that is spent on public schools is minimal for the reward that is tied to public education. I seriously invite you & psycho to check out the difference between our nation and those where school is a pay-as-you-go service. Honestly compare the two systems. Be real about which you prefer.

ok but some kind of break would be in order. maybe a write-off for tuition costs, etc.

the voucher plan i heard that made most sense to me was one in which the parent was not in fact reimbursed for the entire amount paid in taxes toward public schools, but instead they are reimbursed for a portion. over time, in theory, as private school becomes more affordable (via vouchers) for more parents of public school students, the number of students in the public schools decreases as they transfer to private schools. with every parent still paying tax dollars toward those public schools, but far fewer students enrolled, when the funds are distributed per student, each winds up with more per capita. (also smaller class sizes, etc)

lickety_spit
03-10-2009, 11:44 PM
is that Sarah Palin in your avatar?
are you aware that she is a die-hard conservative?

DO YOU REALIZE THAT CONVSERVATIVE IDEOLOGY INCLUDES THE ILL-FATED DELUSION THAT IS FREE MARKET CAPITALISM AND THE DEREGULATORY INFLUENCES THAT LEAD TO PREDATORY LOANING FROM THE SAME BANKS THAT SECURITIZED BAD MORTGAGES AND SOLD THEM ON WALLSTREET WHICH SUBSEQUENTLY LEAD TO OUR GOVERNMENT HAVING TO NATIONALIZE/SEMI-NATIONALIZE OUR BIGGEST/OLDEST BANKS IN ORDER TO KEEP THE WORLD ECONOMY FROM COLLAPSING...WELL,DO YOU?!!?

hey man,
just because i have dark hair and square glasses doesn't mean i'm a palin fanatic. i've looked like this since 6th grade. i parodied palin on halloween because it was the easiest choice, but that's as close as i come to being like her. i made that south park avatar 5 years ago. south park me is wearing a slayer shirt, for christ's sake!:lool(i slay me) for reasons that are mine and nobody else's business, i voted for obama. i'm the furthest from a right-wing christian fundamentalist or even fiscal conservative that you can get. (okay, so those are pretty much the reasons...)
let me straighten this up for you once and for all:
the whole toby keith "we'll put a boot in your ass 'cause it's the american way," "USA is the greatest nation in all the land" pompousness is nationalism misconstrued as patriotism. just because you don't stand behind the war or don't fly flags from your car windows or do question the motives of the government doesn't mean you can't love and have pride in your country.




duh.

lickety_spit
03-10-2009, 11:53 PM
dude, Lickety didn't say anything mildly conservative in that last post.

thanks for having my back, man or lady. what is this guy on about...?

NightGoat
03-11-2009, 12:33 AM
I'm not really sure what that was about. I've noticed that once you get on the internet people exhibit really ridiculous behavior, regardless of how they act in actual life. I think it's because people rarely ever meet the people they speak to on the internet so they don't bother thinking about what they're saying because there's no real-world consequences. I'm not really sure if it's an unconscious thing or not.

And for the record, I'm a dude.

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 06:15 AM
ok but some kind of break would be in order. maybe a write-off for tuition costs, etc.

the voucher plan i heard that made most sense to me was one in which the parent was not in fact reimbursed for the entire amount paid in taxes toward public schools, but instead they are reimbursed for a portion. over time, in theory, as private school becomes more affordable (via vouchers) for more parents of public school students, the number of students in the public schools decreases as they transfer to private schools. with every parent still paying tax dollars toward those public schools, but far fewer students enrolled, when the funds are distributed per student, each winds up with more per capita. (also smaller class sizes, etc)

Do you honestly think that's really going to work?

Shit...I just attended a school board meeting last night where the district was about to vote to eliminate ALL public school ATHLETICS, ART, DRAMA, AND MUSIC programs because the state delivered them a budget that forces them to cut over $100 MILLION from next year's budget. You HONESTLY think that these voucher plans won't KILL OFF public education once & for all (a long-standing dream of so-called conservatives)? If you still believe this shit, I've got some oceanfront property in Wyoming to sell you...special price.

obzen
03-11-2009, 09:15 AM
dude, Lickety didn't say anything mildly conservative in that last post.

really?

'Patriotism=\=Nationalism'
-doesnt that sound like the rhetoric of the right?
it does to me-maybe cause im privy to the vernacular/lingo of politicians

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 09:18 AM
Patriotism not equalling nationalism is more of a left-leaning idea these days. Especially after 8 years of Bush's cowboy-foreign-policy & militarism.

obzen
03-11-2009, 09:51 AM
Dick Cheney is not a pure conservative - conservativism requires less spending (including war spending)

there is no such thing as a pure-Conservative/Liberal/Moderate

just like theres no such thing as a pure Socialist/Capitalist society-ever heard of Social Security,MediCare??

...Socialist programs.

and Cheney is a prime example of most politicians w/ulterior motives,regardless of political ideology-"conservatives" are just more scandalous in this matter

dont tell me right-ring extremists didnt have a hand in JFK's murder.


don't think a lot of GOP or Dem politicians bring much constructive to the table. That includes Obama's "stimulus" plan.
^
dont say stimulus-it makes you sound like you watch too much local news

but whatevs.
Its clear that Obama reached too far across the aisle-the "recovery bill" managed to be fiscally conservative w/o the lollygagging gop who are too preoccupied w/finding some solid footing on the all things fiscally conservative-which doesnt make sense after their support of a trillion dollar war which was not pertinent to the capture of Osama Bin Laden and 8 years of tax cuts for the rich while the middle-class disappeared

-and if you ask me,i say we've been fairly moderate in our borrowing/spending-$787billion is nothing compared to what the Chinese are spending-and even our own civil engineers say we need $2.2trillion just to modify our infrastructure-something that would create jobs for years to come

-but yes,the tax-cuts that the gop got on the bill arent really that effective in this happenstance:)

zajaa
03-11-2009, 10:14 AM
Do you honestly think that's really going to work?

Shit...I just attended a school board meeting last night where the district was about to vote to eliminate ALL public school ATHLETICS, ART, DRAMA, AND MUSIC programs because the state delivered them a budget that forces them to cut over $100 MILLION from next year's budget. You HONESTLY think that these voucher plans won't KILL OFF public education once & for all (a long-standing dream of so-called conservatives)? If you still believe this shit, I've got some oceanfront property in Wyoming to sell you...special price.

i dunno if it would work. i think some case studies would certainly be helpful.

i will say that i prefer my tax dollars to fund education over almost anything else. i agree with your benefiting-the-good-of-society-as-a-whole argument, and it's a far preferable to fund education as opposed to excessive military spending, or many other programs (insert wasteful unnecessary govt spending here _______). but i would have much less of a problem knowing my taxes are going to pay to educate other people's kids if i thought the public schools were operating efficiently and producing stellar results.

obzen
03-11-2009, 10:41 AM
I'm not really sure what that was about. I've noticed that once you get on the internet people exhibit really ridiculous behavior, regardless of how they act in actual life. I think it's because people rarely ever meet the people they speak to on the internet so they don't bother thinking about what they're saying because there's no real-world consequences. I'm not really sure if it's an unconscious thing or not.

And for the record, I'm a dude.

nightgoat,you dont fuckin know me man-ill tell straight and ill say it to your face homie-i aint gotta lie to kick it

if you dont think so,let me know-ill be on the campgrounds-y que?

zajaa
03-11-2009, 11:02 AM
http://www.crappyclothing.com/Shirts/KickHisAssSeaBass.jpg

NightGoat
03-11-2009, 11:14 AM
nightgoat,you dont fuckin know me man-ill tell straight and ill say it to your face homie-i aint gotta lie to kick it

if you dont think so,let me know-ill be on the campgrounds-y que?

I'm not trying to insult you at all, I'm just theorizing about internet behavior. just relax, maaaaan

obzen
03-11-2009, 11:32 AM
dont trip-
im not stupid,my post to split was the impetus of your internet behaviorpost-meaning you were indirectly refering to me

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 12:03 PM
i dunno if it would work. i think some case studies would certainly be helpful.

i will say that i prefer my tax dollars to fund education over almost anything else. i agree with your benefiting-the-good-of-society-as-a-whole argument, and it's a far preferable to fund education as opposed to excessive military spending, or many other programs (insert wasteful unnecessary govt spending here _______). but i would have much less of a problem knowing my taxes are going to pay to educate other people's kids if i thought the public schools were operating efficiently and producing stellar results.

Public schools tend to do what they can with what they get handed to them by state governments. If there is waste in "public education" at all, you're likely to find it at the administrative and district-office level. Catered lunches, travel allowances, free beverages...all on the state's dime (and keep in mind that most of these people have six-figure salaries). The problem is that people always want to take that out on the schools and the teachers! Hello! We're the ones suffering!

Trick Loves The Kids
03-11-2009, 12:03 PM
GOP SOP:

- cut funding for schools
- point to schools that are performing poorly as a result of aforementioned funding cuts
- further cut funding for schools and hope the free market sorts it out

obzen
03-11-2009, 12:06 PM
^figures,gop elected officials attend private schools as it were

zajaa
03-11-2009, 12:48 PM
Public schools tend to do what they can with what they get handed to them by state governments. If there is waste in "public education" at all, you're likely to find it at the administrative and district-office level. Catered lunches, travel allowances, free beverages...all on the state's dime (and keep in mind that most of these people have six-figure salaries). The problem is that people always want to take that out on the schools and the teachers! Hello! We're the ones suffering!

i believe you. seems like that stuff is rampant everywhere.

i wonder, do i dare ask your opinion of merit pay? are there any teachers who favor this? it seems like rewarding an employee based on performance works well in the private sector.

just as a side note, i'm generally left-wing... i just felt like bouncing a few ideas off of someone experienced in the field.

lickety_spit
03-11-2009, 12:52 PM
really?

'Patriotism=\=Nationalism'
-doesnt that sound like the rhetoric of the right?
it does to me-maybe cause im privy to the vernacular/lingo of politicians

think of "nationalism," in this sense, as "racism."
as in:
USA > France, Canada, UK, etc...
white people > Blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, etc...

in my opinion, those views are equally skewed.

and don't throw down, please. NightGoat was being completely objective. you were pretty abrasively preaching to the choir about the evils of the right... (not to say the left doesn't have its mega-faults, to anyone who may be thinking i'm one of those "obama is the new messiah" wackjobs.)

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 01:08 PM
i believe you. seems like that stuff is rampant everywhere.

i wonder, do i dare ask your opinion of merit pay? are there any teachers who favor this? it seems like rewarding an employee based on performance works well in the private sector.

just as a side note, i'm generally left-wing... i just felt like bouncing a few ideas off of someone experienced in the field.

Merit pay is pretty ridiculous.

I know for a fact that I (amd my fellow teachers that teach at my school) work our asses off on a daily basis, and we're very experienced & well-educated teachers. Our school has one of the top staff-development & training programs, along with a partnership with a university. All of this, yet our school is deemed "failing."

Why?
Because we deal with a segment of the population that is hard to teach.
Kids that are in gangs.
Kids that don't speak English.
Homeless kids.
Refugees from the Sudan and Somalia who have seen unspeakable horrors.
Kids whose parents that don't value education.
Kids whose parents provide a negative example for their kids.
Kids whose parents are drug addicts.
Kids whose parents are prostitutes.

Now...what makes us a failing school isn't our teaching abilities, efforts, or techniques...it's student & parental effort. Go to a suburban school and teach the SAME way that we teach here, and you'll have a top-notch school.

How would you judge teachers' "merit" knowing all of the outside factors? There is no "fair" way to do it. It's impossible. Standardized tests sure as hell don't do it.` How do you judge a teacher who teaches P.E.? How about Music? Art?

"Merit" pay is unfair and it degrades teachers as professionals by making the assumption that they don't try hard enough, and that if they just made an effort, students would be doing better. Try placing pressure on parents and students if you want to see improvement....the overwhelming majority of teachers are already doing everything they can.

canexplain
03-11-2009, 01:23 PM
vouchers=end of public schools=end of the US in general being the greatest country in the world .... cr****

zajaa
03-11-2009, 01:50 PM
Merit pay is pretty ridiculous.

I know for a fact that I (amd my fellow teachers that teach at my school) work our asses off on a daily basis, and we're very experienced & well-educated teachers. Our school has one of the top staff-development & training programs, along with a partnership with a university. All of this, yet our school is deemed "failing."

Why?
Because we deal with a segment of the population that is hard to teach.
Kids that are in gangs.
Kids that don't speak English.
Homeless kids.
Refugees from the Sudan and Somalia who have seen unspeakable horrors.
Kids whose parents that don't value education.
Kids whose parents provide a negative example for their kids.
Kids whose parents are drug addicts.
Kids whose parents are prostitutes.

Now...what makes us a failing school isn't our teaching abilities, efforts, or techniques...it's student & parental effort. Go to a suburban school and teach the SAME way that we teach here, and you'll have a top-notch school.

How would you judge teachers' "merit" knowing all of the outside factors? There is no "fair" way to do it. It's impossible. Standardized tests sure as hell don't do it.` How do you judge a teacher who teaches P.E.? How about Music? Art?

"Merit" pay is unfair and it degrades teachers as professionals by making the assumption that they don't try hard enough, and that if they just made an effort, students would be doing better. Try placing pressure on parents and students if you want to see improvement....the overwhelming majority of teachers are already doing everything they can.

i wonder what could possibly be done. that's a pretty awful laundry list of dilemmas. was it always like this?

it must be frustrating. one can only do so much from the position you're in as a teacher. it's not really feasible to think that the schools / the state can somehow turn around the lives of entire segments of society.

how can one 'place pressure on parents and students' as you said? it almost seems impossible to improve the situation, unless you somehow get to the root of the social ills. the parents not valuing education seems like a particularly difficult barrier.

any solutions??

obzen
03-11-2009, 02:33 PM
and don't throw down, please. NightGoat was being completely objective. you were pretty abrasively preaching to the choir about the evils of the right... (not to say the left doesn't have its mega-faults, to anyone who may be thinking i'm one of those "obama is the new messiah" wackjobs.)

i dont preach to no choir,dig

and the avatar does look like sarah palin...

lickety_spit
03-11-2009, 04:25 PM
i dont preach to no choir,dig

and the avatar does look like sarah palin...

you think?
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/36/l_0a8a6eab5a36524b723bf0f4ff15b053.jpg
because i don't.

obzen
03-11-2009, 04:55 PM
^thats not necessary...

...and yes,yes it does.

BKsaysAction!
03-11-2009, 05:51 PM
Merit pay is pretty ridiculous.

I know for a fact that I (amd my fellow teachers that teach at my school) work our asses off on a daily basis, and we're very experienced & well-educated teachers. Our school has one of the top staff-development & training programs, along with a partnership with a university. All of this, yet our school is deemed "failing."

Why?
Because we deal with a segment of the population that is hard to teach.
Kids that are in gangs.
Kids that don't speak English.
Homeless kids.
Refugees from the Sudan and Somalia who have seen unspeakable horrors.
Kids whose parents that don't value education.
Kids whose parents provide a negative example for their kids.
Kids whose parents are drug addicts.
Kids whose parents are prostitutes.

Now...what makes us a failing school isn't our teaching abilities, efforts, or techniques...it's student & parental effort. Go to a suburban school and teach the SAME way that we teach here, and you'll have a top-notch school.

How would you judge teachers' "merit" knowing all of the outside factors? There is no "fair" way to do it. It's impossible. Standardized tests sure as hell don't do it.` How do you judge a teacher who teaches P.E.? How about Music? Art?

"Merit" pay is unfair and it degrades teachers as professionals by making the assumption that they don't try hard enough, and that if they just made an effort, students would be doing better. Try placing pressure on parents and students if you want to see improvement....the overwhelming majority of teachers are already doing everything they can.

My nephew mentioned all of those are getting cut from his junior high, Thats the wrong place to cut money by all means.

Thats the major flaw with our education system, we judge on test scores and compare schools that are polar opposites in what they are dealing with. I think there should be a law against taking money from education. It's in my opinion the most important part of any country or society, you take away from education you take away from our future.

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 08:39 PM
My nephew mentioned all of those are getting cut from his junior high, Thats the wrong place to cut money by all means.

Thats the major flaw with our education system, we judge on test scores and compare schools that are polar opposites in what they are dealing with. I think there should be a law against taking money from education. It's in my opinion the most important part of any country or society, you take away from education you take away from our future.

Indeed.

California passed Prop 98 to GUARANTEE minimum school funding, yet Schwarzenegger and our IDIOTIC legislature are CONSTANTLY dipping into the education funds and at the same time guaranteeing tax breaks & loopholes for their wealthy campaign donors.

Fuck all of them.

I've started updating my resume and looking at other states. So far Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, and Utah are looking like possibilities. They're all preserving the arts in their budgets.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-11-2009, 08:49 PM
it's absolutely ridic that it's cool to cut the education budget no problem but the military budget is basically untouchable

SubBass49
03-11-2009, 08:52 PM
It's all about how much the general population cares, and how loud they're willing to get. We've been force-fed this whole "military-is-god-like" idea for so long that it's now a cardinal sin just to talk about cutting back on military spending. Meanwhile we're also being force-fed the idea that teachers unions are somehow preventing children from learning because of their overwhelming greed...thus the anti-teacher/anti-union attitudes that are starting to become popular in the mainstream.

obzen
03-12-2009, 09:12 AM
we need a democratic governor.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-12-2009, 03:29 PM
democrats ain't much better

Wheres the beef?
03-12-2009, 04:30 PM
Merit pay is pretty ridiculous.

I know for a fact that I (amd my fellow teachers that teach at my school) work our asses off on a daily basis, and we're very experienced & well-educated teachers. Our school has one of the top staff-development & training programs, along with a partnership with a university. All of this, yet our school is deemed "failing."

Why?
Because we deal with a segment of the population that is hard to teach.
Kids that are in gangs.
Kids that don't speak English.
Homeless kids.
Refugees from the Sudan and Somalia who have seen unspeakable horrors.
Kids whose parents that don't value education.
Kids whose parents provide a negative example for their kids.
Kids whose parents are drug addicts.
Kids whose parents are prostitutes.

Now...what makes us a failing school isn't our teaching abilities, efforts, or techniques...it's student & parental effort. Go to a suburban school and teach the SAME way that we teach here, and you'll have a top-notch school.

How would you judge teachers' "merit" knowing all of the outside factors? There is no "fair" way to do it. It's impossible. Standardized tests sure as hell don't do it.` How do you judge a teacher who teaches P.E.? How about Music? Art?

"Merit" pay is unfair and it degrades teachers as professionals by making the assumption that they don't try hard enough, and that if they just made an effort, students would be doing better. Try placing pressure on parents and students if you want to see improvement....the overwhelming majority of teachers are already doing everything they can.

Not being sarcastic. But, 99% of the problem is parenting. Its the root of sooo much of the BS people get caught up in around here. But it is a great excuse for lazy ideological people to impose their moral agendas on everyone else.

SubBass49
03-12-2009, 05:23 PM
Not being sarcastic. But, 99% of the problem is parenting. Its the root of sooo much of the BS people get caught up in around here. But it is a great excuse for lazy ideological people to impose their moral agendas on everyone else.

Exactly.

The attitude USED TO BE, "If my kid is fucking up in school, let me know so I can handle 'em at home, and they won't be a problem again."

The attitude NOW tends to be, "Why did my kid get a bad grade in your class? Why didn't he/she pass the standardized test? You must be a shitty teacher."

That second attitude is the one starting to come to the forefront in national and state-level politics as well. It's the Fox News/Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh attitude. Shit...it's even edging on Barack Obama's attitude (see his education comments from earlier in the week). The schools (for the most part) are doing what they can...it's more often than not the PARENTS that are failing the children.

Lack of discipline.
Lack of consistent rules/expectations.
Lack of meaningful interaction.
Lack of willpower.
Lack of doing what a parent is SUPPOSED to do.

Shit...I know if my mom hadn't been on my ass to do well in school, and hadn't set boundaries for me, and hadn't held fast to her rules...I sure as hell wouldn't have ended up in college, I wouldn't have ended up with a career, I probably would have ended up in jail the way I was going.

It wasn't a teacher's fault when I got shitty grades...it was MY fault.

It wasn't a teacher's fault when those bad grades continued for a little while, it was MY fault.

I thank my mom for straightening me out along the way and never giving up on me. I was a real shithead for a while. Not enough kids in the current generatio have a parent like that...they have parents that want to be their friends...that want to be "cool."

But society will keep blaming teachers, just watch. Eventually, very few people will want to become teachers. It will no longer be worth the hassle and overwhelming red-tape necessary to obtain and retain a teaching certificate/credential...or to teach for that matter.

obzen
03-12-2009, 09:20 PM
democrats ain't much better

well what else is there realistically-Green Party,a liberal Independent?

zajaa
03-12-2009, 09:36 PM
Exactly.

The attitude USED TO BE, "If my kid is fucking up in school, let me know so I can handle 'em at home, and they won't be a problem again."

The attitude NOW tends to be, "Why did my kid get a bad grade in your class? Why didn't he/she pass the standardized test? You must be a shitty teacher."

That second attitude is the one starting to come to the forefront in national and state-level politics as well. It's the Fox News/Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh attitude. Shit...it's even edging on Barack Obama's attitude (see his education comments from earlier in the week). The schools (for the most part) are doing what they can...it's more often than not the PARENTS that are failing the children.

Lack of discipline.
Lack of consistent rules/expectations.
Lack of meaningful interaction.
Lack of willpower.
Lack of doing what a parent is SUPPOSED to do.

Shit...I know if my mom hadn't been on my ass to do well in school, and hadn't set boundaries for me, and hadn't held fast to her rules...I sure as hell wouldn't have ended up in college, I wouldn't have ended up with a career, I probably would have ended up in jail the way I was going.

It wasn't a teacher's fault when I got shitty grades...it was MY fault.

It wasn't a teacher's fault when those bad grades continued for a little while, it was MY fault.

I thank my mom for straightening me out along the way and never giving up on me. I was a real shithead for a while. Not enough kids in the current generatio have a parent like that...they have parents that want to be their friends...that want to be "cool."

But society will keep blaming teachers, just watch. Eventually, very few people will want to become teachers. It will no longer be worth the hassle and overwhelming red-tape necessary to obtain and retain a teaching certificate/credential...or to teach for that matter.

i agree that poor parents are a huge problem, but u can't exempt all teachers. and i would even argue that there are probably some great parents out there with kids who for one reason or another are just shitheads.

also, i am still curious to know if you have any solution ideas. how can the problem of poor parents be tackled, and by whom? what can be done? where does it start?

NightGoat
03-12-2009, 09:56 PM
SubBass, I agree with the idea of parental responsibility but don't you think there are some situations where the teacher is just totally shit and should be held responsible? I mean, bitching and screaming at a teacher because your kid's a fuck-up is totally unreasonable, but I think there are situations where the teacher is simply not doing their job and they get off with a slap on the wrist while a student doesn't learn a damn thing from them and maybe even fail the class.

We had a teacher that would actually hallucinate in class and would grade people down for not turning in assignments that she never actually assigned. Half the class transferred out but the other half couldn't. If some of those people failed because she was crazy, how was that their fault?

BKsaysAction!
03-12-2009, 10:06 PM
SubBass, I agree with the idea of parental responsibility but don't you think there are some situations where the teacher is just totally shit and should be held responsible? I mean, bitching and screaming at a teacher because your kid's a fuck-up is totally unreasonable, but I think there are situations where the teacher is simply not doing their job and they get off with a slap on the wrist while a student doesn't learn a damn thing from them and maybe even fail the class.

We had a teacher that would actually hallucinate in class and would grade people down for not turning in assignments that she never actually assigned. Half the class transferred out but the other half couldn't. If some of those people failed because she was crazy, how was that their fault?

I had a couple of teachers like that but all three eventually were fired one was even deported (she burned down her portable when she left the heater on all night).

obzen
03-12-2009, 10:18 PM
yeah now that i think of it-there were/are ALOT of teachers that arent very professional-though i thought most of them were good people at heart.

NightGoat
03-12-2009, 11:23 PM
The teacher I was talking about wasn't fired. We also had a teacher that strangled a kid in class and wasn't fired until two years later when he got drunk, got into an accident, and beat the other driver with his antennae.

lickety_spit
03-12-2009, 11:27 PM
The teacher I was talking about wasn't fired. We also had a teacher that strangled a kid in class and wasn't fired until two years later when he got drunk, got into an accident, and beat the other driver with his antennae.

do you live in arizona? they'll hire just about anybody for a teaching position here.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-12-2009, 11:30 PM
well what else is there realistically-Green Party,a liberal Independent?

nothing, I vote democrat every chance I get but i don't think they're great even though they're by far the best option. i'd vote third party on a local level but i'm much more interested in keeping republicans out of office at state/national levels because while the democrats are pretty impotent and corrupt in their own way at least they make an effort to pretend that they care about basic human welfare.

Wheres the beef?
03-13-2009, 12:05 AM
nothing, I vote democrat every chance I get but i don't think they're great even though they're by far the best option. i'd vote third party on a local level but i'm much more interested in keeping republicans out of office at state/national levels because while the democrats are pretty impotent and corrupt in their own way at least they make an effort to pretend that they care about basic human welfare.

Well at least republicans stab you in the face instead of in the back like democrats.

BKsaysAction!
03-13-2009, 12:09 AM
Well at least republicans stab you in the face instead of in the back like democrats.

I think these days i'd rather be stabbed in the back than in the face at least you can survive a backstabbing.

NightGoat
03-13-2009, 01:00 AM
do you live in arizona? they'll hire just about anybody for a teaching position here.

Nope, I live in good ol' La Crescenta,CA or The Lock, as the wannabe gangster types call it

SubBass49
03-13-2009, 06:18 AM
SubBass, I agree with the idea of parental responsibility but don't you think there are some situations where the teacher is just totally shit and should be held responsible? I mean, bitching and screaming at a teacher because your kid's a fuck-up is totally unreasonable, but I think there are situations where the teacher is simply not doing their job and they get off with a slap on the wrist while a student doesn't learn a damn thing from them and maybe even fail the class.

We had a teacher that would actually hallucinate in class and would grade people down for not turning in assignments that she never actually assigned. Half the class transferred out but the other half couldn't. If some of those people failed because she was crazy, how was that their fault?

For some reason, people seem to think that the teachers unions try to protect people like that. They don't. They just make sure that every teacher is given a fair opportunity to address their grievances and prove their worth. Those protections were only put in place after DECADES of teachers being subject to whatever whims and administration felt. It's the same sort of process as any corporate job. You get to find out the charges against you, address any concerns, and have representation to protect your rights.

USUALLY, when a teacher like that isn't fired or asked to step down gracefully, it's because the administration didn't have the balls to do it, or because the kids never told anyone about it.

As a teacher, I COMPLETELY agree with getting rid of bad teachers...but I also want to make sure that there is a step-by-step process that is fair to the teacher AND the students.

obzen
03-13-2009, 08:13 AM
nothing, I vote democrat every chance I get but i don't think they're great even though they're by far the best option. i'd vote third party on a local level but i'm much more interested in keeping republicans out of office at state/national levels because while the democrats are pretty impotent and corrupt in their own way at least they make an effort to pretend that they care about basic human welfare.

buy the anarchist cookbook:)

Trick Loves The Kids
03-13-2009, 10:19 AM
i'm gonna get it off the internet for free

obzen
03-13-2009, 12:04 PM
^youre gonna get marked like that:)

zajaa
03-13-2009, 12:57 PM
sub bass? solutions? anything?

SubBass49
03-13-2009, 02:42 PM
Wish I had some that were realistic.

Only solutions would involve a general shift in culture. A return to the culture of personal responsibility and parenting. Some of the things that Bill Cosby talked about in "Come On People." Also a cultural shift in understanding the reason for taxes, and how they benefit everyone in a society. Perhaps laws that include attention to a child's education as an aspect of parenting (lack of attention to a child's education would be seen as neglect/abuse)? Hard to say.

What causes it? Who knows? Entitlement culture? Over-protective helicopter parents? Their polar opposites? Instant gratification culture? Wish I had a clear answer.

Wheres the beef?
03-13-2009, 02:57 PM
Teachers should tell parents to just fuck off.

SubBass49
03-13-2009, 02:57 PM
lol...great career move...lol

JustSteve
03-13-2009, 03:08 PM
Wish I had some that were realistic.

Only solutions would involve a general shift in culture. A return to the culture of personal responsibility and parenting. Some of the things that Bill Cosby talked about in "Come On People." Also a cultural shift in understanding the reason for taxes, and how they benefit everyone in a society. Perhaps laws that include attention to a child's education as an aspect of parenting (lack of attention to a child's education would be seen as neglect/abuse)? Hard to say.

What causes it? Who knows? Entitlement culture? Over-protective helicopter parents? Their polar opposites? Instant gratification culture?
Wish I had a clear answer.

with both parents working these days in many families kids have little to no oversight in terms of anything they do: homework, what is going on after school, etc. we need to make it feasible for there to be at home parents again. pipe dream? probably.

zajaa
03-13-2009, 03:15 PM
with both parents working these days in many families kids have little to no oversight in terms of anything they do: homework, what is going on after school, etc. we need to make it feasible for there to be at home parents again. pipe dream? probably.

yeah this seems like the unfortunate result of a major oversight in the earlier waves of the feminist movement.

BKsaysAction!
03-13-2009, 03:32 PM
I think it's more of a money makes the world go round issue.

instinct
03-13-2009, 03:33 PM
we need a democratic governor.

we do.

instinct
03-13-2009, 03:34 PM
buy the anarchist cookbook:)

who would actually BUY it?

instinct
03-13-2009, 03:35 PM
man this thread got lame.

BKsaysAction!
03-13-2009, 03:35 PM
who would actually BUY it?

Can you buy it?

JustSteve
03-13-2009, 03:36 PM
who would actually BUY it?

not an anarchist.

instinct
03-13-2009, 03:50 PM
Can you buy it?

Yeah.. It's called The Capitalist Cookbook though.

BKsaysAction!
03-13-2009, 03:55 PM
Thats what i thought. Kind of defeats the purpose.

zajaa
03-13-2009, 04:06 PM
I think it's more of a money makes the world go round issue.

i dunno, americans are said to work more hours and take fewer vacations than any country. i think it's a money makes americans go round issue.

amidoingitwrite
03-13-2009, 04:08 PM
wat?
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/lalocura_2007/pics/1232354859191s.jpg

zajaa
03-13-2009, 04:10 PM
yeah nobody likes you




weirdo

amidoingitwrite
03-13-2009, 04:11 PM
yeah nobody likes you




weirdo

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t113/lalocura_2007/pics/1233029398262.gif

SubBass49
03-13-2009, 05:20 PM
with both parents working these days in many families kids have little to no oversight in terms of anything they do: homework, what is going on after school, etc. we need to make it feasible for there to be at home parents again. pipe dream? probably.

Good point, but no excuse. I grew up for most of my life in a single-parent household (from the time I was 6). My mom's work day lasted for at least 2 hours after school let out...sometimes longer. She still acted as a parent. She'd call the school when she didn't see a report card. She'd take her lunch break and drop in on me when I got suspended or got in trouble and was sitting in the office. She was tenacious. She was an involved parent.



yeah this seems like the unfortunate result of a major oversight in the earlier waves of the feminist movement.

No point in having a woman stay home with the kids if she doesn't want to be there. That's not helping anyone. Women can work and be a parent at the same time. (see my example above)

Thief of Fire
03-19-2009, 05:07 PM
Anyone want to join Glenn Beck's new right-wing numerology cult?

rM4xqnukQrM

SubBass49
03-19-2009, 08:56 PM
I thought Glenn Beck was Mormon...

heyeric
03-19-2009, 09:00 PM
Glenn Beck is brainwashing people.

Miroir Noir
02-19-2013, 03:54 PM
Glenn Beck late add:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oLgWHreuN7A