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thestripe
03-09-2010, 11:37 AM
Locke's drawing.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/d/d6/LockeDrawingSmokey.jpg/800px-LockeDrawingSmokey.jpg


I almost forgot about this.

Monklish
03-09-2010, 11:47 AM
Jack hate is overrated.

He's an unbelievably terrible actor.

J~$$$$
03-09-2010, 05:22 PM
We need to talk more in depth about lost. It's the final season!!!!


Random;

Miles uses the subjective "we" when talking about Claire when she shows up at the temple....

after Claire says "he wants to talk to you" to dogen about fake Locke, dogen says "he will kill me" Claire then says "maybe you should send somebody he won't kill" he immediatly turns to sayid and says I need to talk to you and sends sayid to meet with fake Locke.

In the Jungle Sayid meets up with Nadia she asks "what did I miss?" he says talk go miles. Next scene he tells calire exactly what's going on.

I hope the audience plays a role in the finale.

J~$$$$
03-09-2010, 05:32 PM
I think Jacob and evil dude/fake Locke are playing the same game it's not about winning it's about traping "canidates" to take thier places neither is right or wrong it's about being free of the island.

Monklish
03-09-2010, 05:36 PM
If Ben dies I'm going to weep into my panties.

stinkbutt
03-09-2010, 05:38 PM
So this seals up that Richard was a slave on the Black Rock right?

Monklish
03-09-2010, 05:39 PM
Yeah but we already knew that because I said so.

Monklish
03-09-2010, 06:04 PM
And there's The Wid.

J~$$$$
03-09-2010, 06:06 PM
Long long long shot. Is the school that Ben and Locke teach at the same school Locke went to as a kid where richarded first visited him? Kind of a stupid question.

Monklish
03-09-2010, 06:08 PM
... sure, why not. Also, who gives a fuck.

atom heart
03-09-2010, 06:16 PM
"I'll have you?" O_o

Jack is INSANE. I kind of like bat-shit crazy Jack better than any other iteration of slightly insane Jack.

And that's twice that the commercials have faked out Ben's death. Both he and Richard are seriously sad people now.

J~$$$$
03-09-2010, 06:18 PM
... sure, why not. Also, who gives a fuck.



okay. Glad we could get that off our dick.

J~$$$$
03-09-2010, 07:03 PM
One of my favorite episodes. It had the same feel as when hurley got the dharma van to start with Charlie and crew.

captncrzy
03-09-2010, 07:24 PM
I'm over Jack. WHY NOT DEMAND ANSWERS FROM RICHARD IN EXCHANGE FOR 'KILLING' HIM before lighting the match? GOD.


Also

"When Jacob touches you, he gives you a gift". Hmmmm.

OnlyNonStranger
03-09-2010, 07:26 PM
I thought this was a rather boring episode.

VicVinegar
03-09-2010, 09:22 PM
I liked this episode. Bird on the Wire was a nice touch for the music during the promo afterwards too.

Sexecutioner
03-09-2010, 10:10 PM
Watching Bens transformation from powerful leader to loaner reject has been pretty great tv. one of the best characters ever. god i love this show.

so when ben and his dad are talking in the flash sideways about leaving the island, i wonder how that happened?. didnt ben get shot in the 70s by sayid right before they set off the bomb? i wonder what happened that led them to leave?

mickflyy
03-09-2010, 10:38 PM
blehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Cancersticks1
03-10-2010, 06:45 AM
One of my favorite episodes. It had the same feel as when hurley got the dharma van to start with Charlie and crew.

I mentioned this very thing when the episode ended. Personally, I think this was the most satisfying episode of the series. It pretty much had everything I wanted; Lots of Ben being awesome obviously, finally some concrete info about Richard, Jack is finally starting to get it, WIDMORE SUB, Arzt in the flash sideways and tied to the island via the dynamite, and Miles digging up Nikki & Paulo's diamonds was pure genius. The only other thing I would have liked to see is Vincent. Also, it seems that Ben's alt-story kind of puts an end to this simply being a timeline branched from the incident, particularly Alex and Danielle, whatever spawned this reality either happened way before that event, or this reality is completely unique from the other. I think it backs up the "bedazzled" universe theory pretty strongly.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 07:36 AM
I'm over Jack. WHY NOT DEMAND ANSWERS FROM RICHARD IN EXCHANGE FOR 'KILLING' HIM before lighting the match? GOD.


Also

"When Jacob touches you, he gives you a gift". Hmmmm.

my girlfriend amy & i said the same thing!!! though i also like crazy jack doing shit like eating the pill & sitting there with the dynamite. he finally has some faith it seems like, and it's working for him. i don't think he's the worst actor on the show by far though, claire certainly has him beat there. along with nadia's horrible, horrible attempt at an accent.

and is the gift different for different people? also, did jacob ever touch michael? he wasn't able to committe suicide afterall.

so now richard is the new ben, hating jacob and all that. i personally wish richard was from egyptian times and not the black rock because i want an egyptian flashback so bad. we need richard's back story STAT! i'm sick of waiting!!!

ben as a teacher was HILARIOUS. at first we thought that him and alex were gonna get sexy (don't stand so close to me popped in our heads) or something. i guess ben redeems himself in that timeline with alex rousseau... which makes you wonder where rousseau is in the flash sideways, but i doubt we'll get an answer to that. i was glad to see locke and arnzt at the school.

the palo & nikki reference from miles was awesome. i really couldn't care less about ilana though, she's like ana lucia 2.0, annoying, i don't care about your feelings for jacob!!!!

also, after watching the enhanced last week's episode, we wondered if the kitchen with keamy & sayid was the same kitchen that miles was taken to in a prior episode to view a body.

Monklish
03-10-2010, 07:36 AM
Why do any of you give a flying fuck about Vincent? You realize he's not really a character, right? He's a dog.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 07:37 AM
i care about vincent!!! come back!!!!!!!!!!!

Monklish
03-10-2010, 07:37 AM
Yeah, I can't wait for Vincent to come back so that we can see a dramatic scene of people petting him for five seconds.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 07:39 AM
whatever, you didn't see vincent's name etched on the wheel? the mirror pointing towards the dog house... vincent is the chosen one and the island will be ruled by dogs. they shall topple the four toed statue and replace it with the finest paw in the land.

Monklish
03-10-2010, 07:45 AM
That's not a bad point.

Seriously though, has Vincent ever done anything on the show but come running into a scene so that people can go "VINCENT!" and then cut to something else?

J~$$$$
03-10-2010, 07:47 AM
Vincent is awesome. He will play a huge role I bet. There is no other reason to keep him around.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 07:47 AM
he led jack to the beach in the pilot for a start.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 07:53 AM
from lostpedia...


woke everyone up by barking to warn them of boars
vincent made shannon less cunty
vincent helped bring sayid & shannon together
vincent brought charlie the virgin mary filled with heroin
vincent brought the arm of ben's dad that had the key to the dharma volkswaggon
vincent found the body of the doctor washed up on the shore

thestripe
03-10-2010, 07:56 AM
He was also the reason that Walt and Locke became close, and pissed off Micheal on a regular.

Cancersticks1
03-10-2010, 08:06 AM
Also the deleted scene when Christian sends him to wake Jack up in the pilot. Still feel like that was important.

vinylmartyr
03-10-2010, 08:10 AM
Seems like Jack has already taken Jacobs place.

Monklish
03-10-2010, 08:21 AM
Vincent is awesome. He will play a huge role I bet. There is no other reason to keep him around.

Maybe that's why they haven't kept him around.


from lostpedia...


woke everyone up by barking to warn them of boars
vincent made shannon less cunty
vincent helped bring sayid & shannon together
vincent brought charlie the virgin mary filled with heroin
vincent brought the arm of ben's dad that had the key to the dharma volkswaggon
vincent found the body of the doctor washed up on the shore


Oh whatever. They should change his name to Deus Ex Machina. "Alright, so what do we want them to find? Okay, how should they find it? Ah fuck it, let's not be creative, let's just have the dog point it out."

faxman75
03-10-2010, 08:22 AM
Yeah, I can't wait for Vincent to come back so that we can see a dramatic scene of people petting him for five seconds.

Heartwarming.

I wonder if Vincent has a sideways story.

BeHereNOW
03-10-2010, 08:31 AM
alex is hot

thestripe
03-10-2010, 08:32 AM
I'm still stuck on the interaction between time travel Locke and Richard. Richard gives Locke the compass and tells him to bring back everyone to the island. But it turns out that FLocke is the one who told Richard to do that. Why? FLocke happens regardless of that interaction between time travel Locke and Richard. What's the play here? I'm probably missing something big and it's bugging me.

This episode was great. The little interaction between Ben and Locke in the teachers lounge was very cool. Reminded me of how great a character the real Locke is. It was also cool to see Ben dealing with the same struggles off the island, only small time. I like that Jack is now a man of faith and makes me think that he'll replace Jacob. But that seems too easy. I’m interested to see how The Wid vs. Ben plays out. You know it’s coming.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 08:43 AM
I'm still stuck on the interaction between time travel Locke and Richard. Richard gives Locke the compass and tells him to bring back everyone to the island. But it turns out that FLocke is the one who told Richard to do that. Why? FLocke happens regardless of that interaction between time travel Locke and Richard. What's the play here? I'm probably missing something big and it's bugging me.

This episode was great. The little interaction between Ben and Locke in the teachers lounge was very cool. Reminded me of how great a character the real Locke is. It was also cool to see Ben dealing with the same struggles off the island, only small time. I like that Jack is now a man of faith and makes me think that he'll replace Jacob. But that seems too easy. I’m interested to see how The Wid vs. Ben plays out. You know it’s coming.

what makes you think Flocke gave the compass to richard and said they needed to bring everyone back to the island and not locke? i thought locke gave him the compass while he was still on island time travelling, which was before he moved the island and ultimately died, right?

i thought it was interesting in this episode when they asked richard where he came from and he said "you wouldn't believe me". wonder what he was doing...

thestripe
03-10-2010, 09:26 AM
Ummm....I hope I'm not remembering it wrong. FLocke shows up at Richard's. Richard thinks he's RLocke. Flocke tells Richard they have to go see Jacob. On the way Flocke tells Richard that RLocke is going to apprear, and will be wounded. He tells Richard to go patch him up and gives him the compass to pass along to the RLocke. He also orders him to tell RLocke to bring back Oceanic 6. Richard finds RLocke with a bullet in his leg, and does as ordered, telling him to give back the compass later so he'll know it's him. Also tells him he'll have to die. Richard goes back to FLocke thinking he was resurrected by Jacob, just as Jacob made Richard not age. Wrong.

I guess my theory is, RLocke was no longer a candidate once off the island. He was supposed to kill himself causing some kind of re-evaluation/reaction to (mainly Jack)the Oceanic 6 lives. Ben steps in and kills RLocke, opening the door for FLocke to take occupancy upon returning to the island. Ben's fucked everything up.

Cancersticks1
03-10-2010, 09:35 AM
He needed to do that to maintain the chain of events that led to him taking over Lockes body. Seems pretty straight forward to me, if he changed anything (if he could change anything) it wouldn't have played out the way it did. Besides, Locke needed to have a "purpose" he believed in in order to sacrifice himself.

thestripe
03-10-2010, 10:34 AM
He needed to do that to maintain the chain of events that led to him taking over Lockes body. Seems pretty straight forward to me, if he changed anything (if he could change anything) it wouldn't have played out the way it did. Besides, Locke needed to have a "purpose" he believed in in order to sacrifice himself.

How is FLocke maintaining chain of events? I'm assuming that this is all happening in real time. The only solution I can think of is that FLocke is buying time. He knows that he has to somehow convince a weary Richard that he is RLocke. He tells Richard to go to RLocke so he'll come back convinced that FLocke is the real deal. The compass and all that has no effect on the outcome of past events. What's done is done. We are not in a time loop.

I feel better.

donkey sex
03-10-2010, 11:08 AM
Yeah, when Locke told Linus that he was going to leave the island to Benís control he responded with an excited, approving look at the idea. Linusí has been so far down the totem pole lately and it seems like forever since he had the peak manipulative power of the first couple seasons. Is Ben hungry to get that role of complete island controller back after being so dejected by the loss of his daughter due to his self perceived poor decision making and complete loss of confidence?

The only way that happens is by killing Locke or the black smoke monster inside Locke or whatever Locke is. Ben should know that John isnít going to leave the island like he said he would. There is going to be a showdown and we can already see the Locke/Linus teams developing.

But before that battle with Locke he first must lead the new beach group. The exit wide shot of him as an outsider at the end of last nightís episode doesnít paint an immediate picture that he will be, but canít believe he is going to stand there as a pawn much longer. Coming Soon: Linus mojo resurrection and ensuing mind and body battles galore.

The Whitmores, the Jacks, the Sayids will contribute to the storyline, but I think itís going to come down to Locke and Linus at the end. Thought that from the beginning.

Astrid
03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
How is FLocke maintaining chain of events? I'm assuming that this is all happening in real time. The only solution I can think of is that FLocke is buying time. He knows that he has to somehow convince a weary Richard that he is RLocke. He tells Richard to go to RLocke so he'll come back convinced that FLocke is the real deal. The compass and all that has no effect on the outcome of past events. What's done is done. We are not in a time loop.

I feel better.

im tired and hungover, but i agree with cancersticks on this one. at the moment that Flocke facilitates the interaction between richard and locke there are 2 timelines/dimensions/whatevers occurring simultaneously. That moment was pivotal in the chain of events that got Flocke his new body, and therefore aided in successfully killing jacob. just because he was perpetuating the occurrence of one time discrepancy does not mean they are trapped in a time loop. it is done now. time is restored to its natural state. if he hadnt done that...well michael j fox might have started disappearing.

my question is how did Flocke know...well im getting confused. so when we originally saw that interaction, it was locke 3 years ago, transmitted to the future. so...i guess im just thinking that the only way Flocke would have known he needed to be there/facilitate that interaction is some sort of grand plan type scenario. but that doesnt make sense either. time travel gets me a little lost in the morning...

in summation: i loved when ben says IT'S DR LINUS. <3 richard was awesome, i love me some broken men.

p.s.WHERE'S DESMOND?

donkey sex
03-10-2010, 11:14 AM
A friend wrote a pretty funny take on Vincent if you are arsed. This is from a few years ago mind. The 'Gay Fans of Ben Linus' blog:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=204820202&blogId=285897515

stinkbutt
03-10-2010, 11:15 AM
im tired and hungover, but i agree with cancersticks on this one. at the moment that Flocke facilitates the interaction between richard and locke there are 2 timelines/dimensions/whatevers occurring simultaneously. That moment was pivotal in the chain of events that got Flocke his new body, and therefore aided in successfully killing jacob. just because he was perpetuating the occurrence of one time discrepancy does not mean they are trapped in a time loop. it is done now. time is restored to its natural state. if he hadnt done that...well michael j fox might have started disappearing.

my question is how did Flocke know...well im getting confused. so when we originally saw that interaction, it was locke 3 years ago, transmitted to the future. so...i guess im just thinking that the only way Flocke would have known he needed to be there/facilitate that interaction is some sort of grand plan type scenario. but that doesnt make sense either. time travel gets me a little lost in the morning...


So how did smokey replicate Locke at that point? Didn't they say he can only take the form of someone who has already died?

thestripe
03-10-2010, 11:20 AM
im tired and hungover, but i agree with cancersticks on this one. at the moment that Flocke facilitates the interaction between richard and locke there are 2 timelines/dimensions/whatevers occurring simultaneously. That moment was pivotal in the chain of events that got Flocke his new body, and therefore aided in successfully killing jacob. just because he was perpetuating the occurrence of one time discrepancy does not mean they are trapped in a time loop. it is done now. time is restored to its natural state. if he hadnt done that...well michael j fox might have started disappearing.

my question is how did Flocke know...well im getting confused. so when we originally saw that interaction, it was locke 3 years ago, transmitted to the future. so...i guess im just thinking that the only way Flocke would have known he needed to be there/facilitate that interaction is some sort of grand plan type scenario. but that doesnt make sense either. time travel gets me a little lost in the morning...

in summation: i loved when ben says IT'S DR LINUS. <3 richard was awesome, i love me some broken men.

p.s.WHERE'S DESMOND?

Shit. You're right. That was the Locke from three years ago transmitted to the future. How FLocke know's to send Richard is beyond me. Fucking Lost.

Astrid
03-10-2010, 11:28 AM
So how did smokey replicate Locke at that point? Didn't they say he can only take the form of someone who has already died?

well it was richard who interacted with Rlocke when he was technically 3 years ago locke. and in Flockes future time (aka present time) locke was already dead. so loophole? or convenient overstep in the writing?

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 01:58 PM
oh yeah, the submarine, WIDMORE!


so we know that keamy used to work on widmore's freighter.
we also know that keamy has interactions with both sayid & his brother and also jin.
we know that jin is representing paik


therefore, is keamy working for widmore in the alternate timeline? what is widmore's connection with paik then as it comes up in both timelines? who is widmore at war with if ben is not the reason exile since ben left the island as a child in the flash sideways??

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2010, 02:00 PM
Shit. You're right. That was the Locke from three years ago transmitted to the future. How FLocke know's to send Richard is beyond me. Fucking Lost.

Flocke has shown that he has memories that were Rlocke's. therefore maybe Flocke knows what happened between richard and Rlocke?

atom heart
03-10-2010, 03:34 PM
at first we thought that him and alex were gonna get sexy (don't stand so close to me popped in our heads)

Thank god I wasn't the only one who thought this. All of the sex stuff in that ep was weird. Ben finding Sawyer's stash? The principal and the nurse? Am I the only one who thought that Illana's last line to Ben was a double entendre?

thestripe
03-10-2010, 04:08 PM
J, I know this is your thing but your a little late today. Sorry.


THINGS I NOTICED - DR. LINUS

In past seasons, an episode like Dr. Linus would be considered "filler". Although it succeeded in advancing the storyline, it didn't deliver the raw action of Sundown or provide the startling answers associated with The Substitute and Lighthouse. Still, neither of those things mattered much. This week's episode was stolen away by the amazing acting of Michael Emerson, in both the ALT and on-island timelines. Things I Noticed:


Lo There Do I See The Line of My People... Back to the Beginning... Back to the Beach Camp!

Maybe Miles was right last season - walking back to the beach is the only real plan anyone in LOST every really has. The place where LOST began is also the place we've spent most of our time, and it's fast becoming the epicenter of the entire show - the wellspring from which everything and everyone has seemingly flowed. When all else fails, the 815'ers beach always becomes a convenient START point from which to regroup and re-plan, and season six is no exception.


Everbody Wants To Rule The World - Especially Napoleon

The first glimpse we got of Dr. Linus turned me off a few weeks ago. After a more thorough view, maybe I prejudged him. LAX_Linus is a likeable enough guy, with honest interests and genuine passion for all good things. Unfortunately for him, nice guys usually finish last.

Principal Reynolds is the same kickass 80's nemesis he portrayed as professor Hathaway in Real Genius (and if I remember, he was carrying on inappropriate school-based sexual relations in that movie too), and also as the annoying face-punched journalist in Die Hard. They could've also gotten the principal from Ferris Bueller's Day Off, but I think that guy touched some children recently. Then again, so did Jacob.

Arzt is back, and it was good to see him with a semi-significant role here. He's got formaldehyde on his shirt , and I took this as a backhanded reference to the fact that island-Arzt is already dead. He's stuck in the same familiar role as always: sitting alone during lunch, far removed from the cool kids' table.

As Ben and Arzt discuss the decaying state of school affairs, Ben utters a prophetic line: "I know you've given up, but I refuse to." Later on in the episode, this ties in neatly to island-Ben's salvation. Broken, beaten, and finally ready to give up, Illana breathes new life into Benjamin Linus by forgiving his sins and accepting him into Jacob's army. In that aspect, Ben's refusal to give up here in the LAX timeline is paralleled on the island.

The most interesting part of the school scene occurs when John Locke interacts with Ben. Here in the bizarro world Locke is good, not bad. He's also ready to follow and listen to Ben, instead of asking Ben to follow him. These are more examples of role-reversals; all through the show we've seen Ben 'push' people in Jacob-like fashion to get them to do all sorts of things. Here, LAX_Locke is returning the favor.


You're Forgetting One Thing. What If?

In the land of bizarro daddy issues, Ben is caring for his father by gassing him with oxygen rather than lethal poison gas. I'd point out that this was ironic, but last week the irony police slapped me with some violations that I'm still trying to clear up.

But hey, we get our first real reference to the island here - and that's big. Roger Linus confirms what bad CGI has already told us this season: Dharma does exist (or at least did exist) in the alternate timeline. Not only that, but both Ben and his father have spent some time on the island. What made them leave is unclear, but Roger goes extra-crazy-special out of his way to pointedly wonder (aloud and for our benefit) just what life would've been like if they'd "stayed on the island".

I felt as if we, the viewers, were getting a direct message here. This type of "what if" theorizing was almost a little too pronounced, especially when it got echoed later on during Ben's brief conversation with Lapidus. Frank wonders aloud how different his life would've been if his alarm clock had gone off, and if he had actually piloted Flight 815. Ben slaps him in the face with a dose of fate, reminding him that it doesn't really matter because "the island got you anyway".

I've always had the feeling that we'd see Flight 815 crash again, and that Lapidus would be at the control wheel. This would be the corrected version of the crash, with the correct people involved. Not saying this will definitely happen, but it's been in the back of my mind for three seasons now. And Jack's line about "going back to where we started" - although yes he was also referring to the beach camp - seemed to gel nicely with the idea.


Maybe We Could Build A Fire... Sing a Few Songs!

Miles is the king of sarcasm. Lapidus is the king of zinging one-liners. Together the two of them would make a great sitcom, especially with the pad Miles can now afford after digging up Nikki and Paulo's diamonds. It was funny how fast he figured this out, and how quickly he snubbed Ben's lame offer to finally pay out on the 3.2 million dollars. Good for him.

When Miles approaches Ben with bananas and beanpods, the subject of Jacob comes up again. Here, Ben echoes what many of us have already thought: that Jacob didn't really care about being killed at all. Miles immediately corrects him however, telling Ben: "No, he cared. He was hoping he was wrong about you."

This is highly interesting, because it seems to go against the original theory of Jacob knowingly accepting his own demise. If what Miles says is true, Jacob's last words to Ben about 'having a choice' now carry a lot more weight. At the same time however, I find it difficult to believe Jacob's not still pushing Ben from beyond the grave. Through the use of Miles, maybe Jacob is allowing Ben to know his disappointment for a very specific reason. Perhaps Jacob is trying to appeal to the good within Benjamin Linus, because bringing that good back to the surface again is the only way to successfully recruit him.

Say it... Say it...

Sun again fulfills her obligatory 10-second dialogue, this time talking to Illana. We get a fairly big answer here, as Illana tells us that a candidate's role is to replace Jacob. "What does that mean?" Sun asks. "Sorry, not this episode", Illana tells her.

Illana is as confused about 'Kwon' as we are. Whether the name of the candidate 42 refers to Sun or Jin, Illana explains she plans to protect them both. How she'll do this with a single rifle is beyond me, but maybe she's got a sick dagger buried somewhere that we don't know about.

I also found it interesting that Illana said there were "six candidates left". She already knows John Locke is dead AND occupied by the man in black, which would leave five at most. It left me wondering if Illana knew of a sixth candidate, and whether or not that candidate was Kate.

From our standpoint, replacing Jacob's role seems to be a piss-poor job. Maybe Illana doesn't see it that way, which is why she talks about it so openly. Later on this episode, we see the MIB talking about enlisting a replacement as well. So does the island need two replacements? A ying and a yang? Or are Jacob and the MIB really just two halves of the same entity, waging an internal, Tyler Durden-like war of fate vs. free will? Great question. But sorry, not this episode.


There Are Two Types of People In This World. Those Who Have Guns... And Those Who Dig

Illana's insistence that Ben dig his own grave was very Clint Eastwood. Ben's compliance was an unmistakable indication that he's utterly broken. No longer do I think that Ben 'still has a plan' - I guess I've been wrong about that. Right now the only thing up Ben's sleeve is a sweaty, dirt-covered arm.

Ben's only redemption at this point lies in the fact that he himself was pushed and manipulated into the very role he's played. Benjamin Linus never chose to be leader, and unlike Napoleon maybe he never really wanted it. The metamorphosis he underwent at the temple came while he was an unconscious child, with no choice given to him whatsoever. He usurped power from Charles Widmore out of necessity, in an effort to raise a daughter who Widmore admittedly would rather see dead. Unknowingly, Ben's upbringing as a Dharma-brat also influenced his decision to move everyone to the barracks... a decision, in hindsight, that would disconnect him from the island at the most fundamental of levels.

String all of these things together, and the sum total of Ben's existance has been engineered since childhood. He's been given very few choices, other than the one he himself later points out: the death of Alex. Ben confesses to choosing the island over the life of his daughter, and honestly admits to his mistake. His pain and sorrow are genuine, and so is his regret.


You Wanna Walk Your Baby Nuts Around The Block, You Won't Make It To The Corner!

In the alternate/sideways/simultaneous universe, Dr. Linus is thinking of making a power-play much, much bigger than himself. He's about to bite off a lot more than he can chew, yet he still has the balls to go through with it. The 'big nuts' portion of Ben's personality seems to be bred straight into him, regardless of whether he stayed on the island or left.

The thing is, Ben had principal Reynolds by the balls and we all know it. I couldn't buy into the whole "If you blackmail me I'll crush Alex's college dreams" storyline, because Dr. Linus could've included him not doing that as a stipulation of the blackmail (hey, isnt that what blackmail's all about!?) It was a weak counter-ploy that shouldn't have held any weight, especially since Ben could've written Alex his own letter of recommendation once he assumed Reynold's position.

Although It didn't make any sense, the principal's counter-move was obviously there to further the motif of Ben making the correct choices in both the ALT and on-island storylines. He's destined to look out for Alex's best interests in a fatherly way no matter what universe he's in, but once again he's still not her true father. LAX_Ben selflessly chooses Alex over himself, correcting his one big on-island mistake. It also seemed as if he recognized her at one point, in the same deja-vu way we've seen in past episodes.

Poor Arzt is the same little player caught in a much bigger game, not allowed to sit at the cool kids' table. And all the guy wanted was a parking spot and some aprons. Damn.


Like I've Always Told You, You Put Your Mind to it, You Can Accomplish Anything

Cyborg... vampire... when it comes to Richard Alpert, Hurley is hilariously covering all the bases. In the last few weeks Richard has been stripped of all semblance of power or control. He's been reduced to a man with a great many answers and very little reason to continue on, and that makes him highly interesting to us... and to Jack, too.

Not sure about the rest of you, but every time I see the Black Rock I pee in my pants a little bit. Just sayin. As Richard reflects thoughtfully on that one set of leg irons, it's becoming more and more obvious that his backstory involves the slave ship in some way... and that getting a more in-depth glimpse of his past history is not far off.

Richard looked a little surprised at seeing the dynamite. Maybe he just wasn't expecting it to still be there. He flipped around and juggled it to show us that he couldn't be responsible for his own demise, which means one of two things: either Richard is a sick maniac, or he knows the gifts associated with Jacob's touch extend even beyond Jacob's own apparent demise.

"I can't kill myself", Richard tells us. It doesn't explain his agelessness, but it does explain a lot of other things we've seen these past years. Namely, it tells us why Jack couldn't kill himself on the sixth street bridge. It tells us why Locke couldn't hang himself in that hotel room, and ended up needing some help from Ben. Maybe it even suggests that Michael was touched by Jacob at one point too, because his repeated attempts at suicide in season four were all thwarted.

In any case, the real story here is the new badass Jack. Unlike Richard, post-lighthouse Jack IS a sick maniac. His little sit-down over a stick of lit dynamite even had indestructible Hurley running for the hills, but in this poker game Jack was 100% certain he was holding the nuts. As far as Jack was concerned, the whole scenario wasn't even a gamble. When Richard asks "What if you're wrong?", Jack replies cooly and uncaringly with the simple phrase: "I'm not."

Go back and listen to the way Jack says those two words. He's so unfailingly confident, it's kinda scary. We've never seen Jack like this before. New Jack is way past maybe's or what if's. He's completely and unequivocally sure of his indestructibility, even though he doesn't know what his role is just yet. That's what he wants from Richard right now: the ultimate answer. Jack is no longer fighting the reasons why he was brought to the island, he finally wants to know what it is that he's supposed to do.


Your Overconfidence Is Your Weakness

Flocke has played the last few episodes pretty flawlessly. Aside from tripping over that root and throwing his little Johnny Locke tantrum, everything he's set out to accomplish has fallen snugly into place. Yet here, as he approaches a miserable Benjamin Linus (at a time in his life when he's weak and helpless, might I add...), smokey goes about things all wrong. It's right here, right now, that the dark man makes a pretty big mistake.

After using the Force to pop his leg irons like a Jedi, Flocke totally had Ben with "We're all gonna blow this taco stand". He completely lost him however, with "But hey, someone's gotta stay behind. You're cool with that, right?"

Perhaps it's because Ben was so far disconnected from the island's roots (again, the barracks), or maybe it's because the MIB just assumes every leader of The Others is as inherently power-hungry as Charles Widmore... but it turns out the dark man doesn't really know Benjamin Linus. Because of this, he mistakenly assumes Ben's greatest wish is to rule the island. Just as Sawyer's biggest desire was to leave, and Sayid's only wish was to be with Nadia again, the dark man approached Ben offering the one thing he figured a deposed leader would certainly want most: to regain his power.

Ben however, never truly relished his rule. He was a great leader and master manipulator, but his real motivations were never grounded in obtaining and keeping his power. Although he obedientlyfollowed what he thought were Jacob's orders, Ben was constantly distracted by his own inclinations. His fruitless attempt to solve the fertility problem was (according to Richard) never in line with the island's interests, and the raising of Alex as his daughter was for Ben's own personal reasons.

The dark man releases Ben, gives him access to a weapon, and then presents him with what he believes to be an easy choice. Ultimately however, Ben resists. He chooses to come clean and admit his sins, even if it means being shot or banned from the good guys' group. By laying down his rifle and "explaining" to Illana, he ends up being surprisingly absolved by her. In what becomes a fantastic, awesome scene, both Illana and Ben tearfully come to the realization that they have an awful lot in common.

The dark-shirted man loses Ben here, and that's important. Ben becomes the first person to resist the MIB's siren-like call, and Illana's forgiveness places him squarely on team Jacob. There's a definite momentum shift here, and the impact is probably felt a little harder when contrasted against the dark gloom of last week's episode. Ben's future role may still be uncertain, but if I had to choose up sides for an island game of kickball, I'd say Benjamin Linus would probably be one of my top five picks.

Anything That We Want to Know, From Just a Beginner to a Pro, You Need a Montage... Montage!

The beach camp is a sacred place for us, and with very good reason. It represents the origins of the show we love so much, and memories of a more mysterious yet simpler time. It makes sense that LOST would begin and end in the same place, especially with all the circle and loop references scattered throughout the show. So when everyone ended up back here, including Jack and Hurley (and even Richard?) - it wasn't all that shocking. Cue dramatic montage, and bring on the hugging.

Standing just outside the circle of trust, Richard and Ben are the newcomers. They're fallen defenders of the island who've finally come to the realization that everyone's been pretty much on the same team all along. The sides are being chosen up very quickly, and they'd better be... because here comes the periscope of Widmore's sneaky sub. What havoc will he wreak? What shenanigans will he be up to? Not really sure, but having been off-island for so long he'd better be damned good at playing catch up.

Okay, here's a guess: Widmore will unknowingly end up following the wrong side. As leader of The Others, let's assume he'd been doing Jacob's will (or thought he was) for the entire time he was on the island. But what if he was actually listening to the MIB, without even realizing it? What if he were taking baby-killing direction not from Jacob, but from his nemesis instead?

Knowing what we know now, Widmore's words to John Locke about the upcoming war now contain a more sinister connotation: "If you're not back there, the wrong side will win". It's as if he knew (or was coached) that John Locke's body was necessary to the dark man's ultimate plan. In a way, Widmore participated in the MIB's long con, whether he knew it or not.

My section titles were all movie quotes this week, so I'll leave you with two more. These are from Memento, and in the world of LOST I think they very much apply:

Memory can change the shape of a room; it can change the color of a car. And memories can be distorted. They're just an interpretation, they're not a record, and they're irrelevant if you have the facts.

We all need mirrors to remind ourselves who we are.

See you next week,
-Vozz

J~$$$$
03-10-2010, 05:33 PM
Ehhh no problem Gary. I try post them as much as possible because vozz is so on the money everytime. I wish I could see every episode has he does. Focused.

J~$$$$
03-10-2010, 05:56 PM
I'm going to say that Ben/illana scene in the jungle was the biggest thing we have seen on lost so far.


It shows the dynmaic of that no one is control, Forgiveness is key, and the island says how the universe and time equals out. They both changellenged each other but understood that no matter what they did at that moment it didn't matter, whatever was going to happen was going to happen. The island controls their time and space... i.e their destiny if those choose to see it science based or faith based. The yin and yang. Forgivness was key.

stinkbutt
03-10-2010, 06:00 PM
Way to make it even more gay

J~$$$$
03-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Balance.

tessalasset
03-10-2010, 09:38 PM
just brought me to tears the second time around.

XFrYMO0jhGs

Cancersticks1
03-11-2010, 06:59 AM
I love vozzeks reviews, but I think I tend to agree with Doc Jensen more often:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20350039,00.html

Monklish
03-11-2010, 07:11 AM
just brought me to tears the second time around.


... srsly?

ShyGuy75
03-11-2010, 07:14 AM
the biggest thing we have seen on lost is the last episode of season 5, when we are first introduced to jacob and the mib.

Monklish
03-11-2010, 07:29 AM
I don't understand why anyone calls him MiB. Do we really need to be referencing shitty movies just because the fucking guy was wearing a black shirt? Annoying.

ShyGuy75
03-11-2010, 07:32 AM
I don't understand why anyone calls him MiB. Do we really need to be referencing shitty movies just because the fucking guy was wearing a black shirt? Annoying.

that is what they refer to him in the captions when they play the episode from the week before....douchebag.

J~$$$$
03-11-2010, 07:48 AM
I love vozzeks reviews, but I think I tend to agree with Doc Jensen more often:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20350039,00.html

Doc Jensen is always a great read, it just sucks having to go to EW.com to read it.

atom heart
03-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Pick a name you like and stick to it. If it's descriptive enough everyone will know. I don't think he'll ever get a name.


Also:
Kind of ridiculous little tribute to Ben:
http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/03/ben-linus.html

atom heart
03-11-2010, 06:44 PM
WTF
ZDgbKJWDxcE

Emerson is now added to my list of people that look better as they age. Those eyes are the stuff of nightmare.

tessalasset
03-12-2010, 12:48 AM
I kind of want to bang Michael Emerson.

mickflyy
03-12-2010, 12:57 AM
WTF
ZDgbKJWDxcE

Emerson is now added to my list of people that look better as they age. Those eyes are the stuff of nightmare.

whoa man

caco0283
03-15-2010, 10:03 AM
http://reporter.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451d69069e201310f4e4ab1970c-800wi

Leeartlee
03-15-2010, 10:16 AM
Tomorrows episode is Sawyer centric. i.e. It's gonna fucking rock!

atom heart
03-15-2010, 12:14 PM
http://stout.hampshire.edu/~as07/pics/terminalroomweb.JPG

atom heart
03-16-2010, 06:13 PM
CRAAAAAZY MOTHER.

If Smokey can't get over it in a matter of centuries, doesn't bode well for anyone else with "problems". Too bad no plane crash sent him a psychiatrist.

mickflyy
03-16-2010, 07:09 PM
I hope tonight's episode doesn't disappoint.

OnlyNonStranger
03-16-2010, 07:41 PM
This was the best episode of the season, in my opinion.

mickflyy
03-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Oh nooooooooo!!!!! The earthquakes are coming.

mickflyy
03-16-2010, 08:58 PM
Is it me or are niether of those two believeable as cops.

chairmenmeow47
03-16-2010, 09:04 PM
I hope tonight's episode doesn't disappoint.

i was disappointed. next week looks AWESOME though.

i'm really just posting because i keep forgeting to talk about what a cunt cindy is. you know, miss cindy with they ribbons in her hair, living the high temple/other life. what the fuck cindy, can't help the rest of the people on your goddamend flight?!?!?!

yes drunk...

SDsoldier7
03-16-2010, 09:31 PM
That bitch slap Flocke dished out was great. Had me crackin up.

Laura owns you
03-16-2010, 10:30 PM
tonites episode was crap except for the bitch slap. fucking crazy ass claire. i hate her.

next week.....richard.....mmmmmmmmm

tessalasset
03-17-2010, 12:46 AM
I thought tonight's ep was great. I seriously love all the alternate story lines. I could see Miles as a cop more than Sawyer, actually. Wasn't excited for annoying ass Charlotte to be back, thought I did love seeing Liam again, even if it was just for a few seconds. When Flocke said "My mother was crazy," I laughed out loud. Such a horrible line. That whole convo was a little weird for me. And I'm so sure Flocke could talk Claire out of being psycho in like 5 minutes. When she went to hug Kate, the entire time I was waiting for Claire to stab her in the back with a hidden knife. Also we're trying to figure out if that look from Sawyer was one of recognition? Or just stoked that he pounced on a hot chick. I'm definitely thinking it was one of recognition. The longer this goes on, the more I agree with that theory pages back that said Sawyer is playing a long con on Flocke. I personally wouldn't rely on Sawyer if I were there right now. And so sure he'd be all feeling up Kate's dress in the cage like 2 days after Juliet died. It sucks how they have to speed things up now. I thought this was a super interested episode tho, and SO excited for next week.

Monklish
03-17-2010, 03:15 AM
I thought it was a nice episode. Tess, why do you think the mother line was so bad? I thought it was a fairly cute way of revealing that UnLocke was a person before he became a smoke monster.

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 05:32 AM
i thought the mother thing was lame too and the whole episode was lame. the second i saw red hair, i thought charlotte. miles did make a better cop than sawyer and a miles backstory as a cop probably would have been more interesting than sawyer's. only good part of the episode was claire getting bitch slapped. blah, next week will own though.

Monklish
03-17-2010, 05:52 AM
I still don't quite get why you guys hated that bit of information so much. The story itself could have been better flushed out and more personally detailed, but it might be setting up something pretty interesting. I like it when villains are made relatable and flawed like that--the idea of the smoke thing having been vulnerable under the pressure of a nutty mother is cute. Crazy bitches are something we can all relate to. Any guesses as to who his mother might end up being if they make it a person connected to the story?

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 06:18 AM
for me it was an awkward delivery/scene.

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 06:28 AM
Agreed. That episode was lame. It felt rushed. Everyone has had a great sideways flash, except Kate and Saywer. Who knows maybe it will surprise me later on. That whole mother speech was so ghey. If its up being about mommy issues all along, Im writing a strongly worded letter to the producers.

Monklish
03-17-2010, 06:30 AM
Jacob and UnLocke = brothers?

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 06:32 AM
of course, cain & able.

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 06:34 AM
and Twwwwiiiiiinnnsss. bad twin.

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 06:43 AM
and can we talk about the tina fey look alike from widmore's boat? what's the deal?

invisiblerobots
03-17-2010, 06:57 AM
So if Sawyer's a cop, why did he help Kate escape at the airport? Is that to show his roguish side in alt time?

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 07:07 AM
Ohh good question. I think the only purpose for him becoming a cop was finding "Sawyer". Hes still a con man. His sideways flash was identical to on island events up to this point. Even the flower scene mimicked the him bringing Juliet the flower scene in 1977.

The "audience is stupid scene/foreshadow" of whats in the locker on the sub pissed me off.

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 07:12 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S6AbMyx7zJI/AAAAAAAAyNs/QRvpIs5OXrQ/s400/516OE6Mro2L._SS500_.jpg

38 disks dvd/Blu-ray

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 07:13 AM
http://stout.hampshire.edu/~as07/pics/terminalroomweb.JPG

btw this is awesome.

atom heart
03-17-2010, 07:21 AM
^^ my school is full of nerds

Alright, which mother ISN'T crazy on this show. Eloise, Claire, Sun (just for coming back to mystery island IMO), all crazy.

Even though Sayid said he wasn't a zombie, I can't imagine him not being one now. I don't mean brain eating zombie, but the tiny exchange between him and Kate was pretty telling. He looked blank and didn't even flinch when Claire attacked Kate-- and if there's one thing that Sayid would have always done, it's defend his friends. He's been basically bodysnatched by the Monster, and is aware of it but is powerless.

Monklish
03-17-2010, 07:25 AM
I'm not sure that Sawyer's actually a cop, although this alt timeline certainly fucks with a lot of the predictability of Lost. My instincts say that Sawyer might still just be pulling off a con where he pretends to be a cop. Not sure if it's significant at all, but I found it interesting that Miles kept calling him "Jim," the fake name he used in Otherton. Technically still his real name, and maybe just an indication of familiarity, but something about it stuck out to me.

thestripe
03-17-2010, 07:25 AM
Flocke Keep'n his pimp hand strong was the best part of the episode. Locke's mother was that crazy bitch who ate that magic apple from that smart tree, and ended up ruining life for us all. Next week looks bad ass though.

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 07:32 AM
Sun (just for coming back to mystery island IMO), all crazy.

TOTALLY agree. i have no idea why she came back. i'd be pissed if i were jin.


I'm not sure that Sawyer's actually a cop, although this alt timeline certainly fucks with a lot of the predictability of Lost. My instincts say that Sawyer might still just be pulling off a con where he pretends to be a cop. Not sure if it's significant at all, but I found it interesting that Miles kept calling him "Jim," the fake name he used in Otherton. Technically still his real name, and maybe just an indication of familiarity, but something about it stuck out to me.

jim is a nickname for james, so it could be familiarity, but it's also pretty common. seems like a very elaborate ruse if he ain't a cop as they showed him in the police station answering the phone, didn't they? when he was with that girl in the hotel, i thought maybe he was an informant or something, but i think he's actually a cop in the flash sideways sequence. he's probably just doing it to find his dad, but i think he's still an official cop.

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 07:46 AM
Dharma cops = LA cops.

invisiblerobots
03-17-2010, 07:54 AM
Sawyer made it pretty obvious that his main motivation for being is a cop in order to find Cooper. So Locke's dad is still/was the conman like in the regular timeline? I wonder if alt Locke knows about this.

I also liked the nod Miles gave to his dad, Pierre working at a museum. That he worked with Charlotte though seemed like they're just trying to pile on as many returning cast members as possible.

thestripe
03-17-2010, 07:54 AM
I feel that Sawyer being a cop represent the progress he’s made on the island. He’s gone from a hated con man, to an unstable hero. The sideways timeline is showing that Sawyer is in the position to either change for the ”good” or give in to “bad”. He’s both a cop and a con man right now. My guess is that he’s pretty much in the same situation on the island right now.

Flocke didn’t seem as evil in this episode, which is annoying. Just when I finally bought into the whole good vs. evil thing, we get this lame episode. Also, Clair magically returns to normal form, Really? Come on. It can’t be that easy. I wish she would have just knifed Kate right then and there. That way I wouldn’t have had to see that big fat stupid smile when Sawyer told Kate that they were leaving the island. Kate = fucking blah.

Cancersticks1
03-17-2010, 08:45 AM
I enjoyed seeing the different side of Flocke in this episode. Now that he has his team lined up he took on the mantel of Papa Bear to the troupe, and treated them all like little children one way or another. Punishing Claire, pandering to Kate much the way he pandered to the kids, and it seemed to me like he was pushing his favorite son, Sawyer, to follow in his footsteps. I agree though that the "my mom was crazy too" line was silly, it was a semi-interesting anecdote meant to force us to run through our bible rolodex of crazy mothers, but it just didn't come off right. Sawyers alt I thought was perfectly in standing with what we've seen so far, every one of them has sort of gotten what they wanted, but not quite. While he's come a long way and has a respectable job and accepted a role in society, he still can't quite overcome his hang-up with Cooper.

i812many
03-17-2010, 09:33 AM
I'm getting annoyed with all the rabbit references. There has been mention or an actual rabbit in every episode so far. I get it, it has to do with through the looking glass but enough already.

DRcube
03-17-2010, 09:43 AM
So if Sawyer's a cop, why did he help Kate escape at the airport? Is that to show his roguish side in alt time?

i assumed he didn't help her because Miles would question him as to why he was at the airport and not palm springs

invisiblerobots
03-17-2010, 10:04 AM
i assumed he didn't help her because Miles would question him as to why he was at the airport and not palm springs

Couldn't he have told Miles that he was flying back from Palm Springs? Also, he could have just kept quiet and pretend not to notice her situation but no, he pulls a ballsy move and makes the security guys let her out first. I guess what it really shows is that he doesn't really give a shit about being a cop and is only in it for revenge.

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 10:12 AM
or it just shows that sawyer has the hots for kate in any timeline :p

Monklish
03-17-2010, 10:15 AM
I'm aware that Jim is a nickname for James. I'm saying that the writers wouldn't specifically have Miles call him "Jim" several times if they weren't trying to nudge us with their elbows. But we shall see.

tessalasset
03-17-2010, 11:40 AM
So if Sawyer's a cop, why did he help Kate escape at the airport? Is that to show his roguish side in alt time?

OH, this could be his look of recognition last night. So he definitely recognized her when he caught her, but not from the island. From LAX. Ok I forgot about that.


And yeah, Randy, it was just in Flocke's delivery that made me cringe. It almost sounded like he was joking but he wasn't.

And don't forget about brothers Jacob and Esau, from our original theories.

tessalasset
03-17-2010, 11:41 AM
I'm aware that Jim is a nickname for James. I'm saying that the writers wouldn't specifically have Miles call him "Jim" several times if they weren't trying to nudge us with their elbows. But we shall see.

Also remember the safety word for the con was "la fleur."

invisiblerobots
03-17-2010, 11:49 AM
Also remember the safety word for the con was "la fleur."

And that Miles called him Jim when they worked together in Dharmaville.

Monklish
03-17-2010, 11:53 AM
Right, yes, I remember all of that. Look it's either just coincidence or a pointless wink-wink from the writers or it's a pointed wink-wink. Time will tell. All I'm saying is that as many meaningless coincidences as there are in Lost there are just as many instances of them tipping you off to something about to happen.

tessalasset
03-17-2010, 11:58 AM
Remember they called him JIM and that was his name in Dharma, Randy!!!!

Jgomesart
03-17-2010, 12:23 PM
Here's this weeks write up.


THINGS I NOTICED - RECON

Sawyer-centric episodes never really disappoint, but Recon was not my favorite episode of season six. Although James Ford's off-island scenario directly opposes what we've seen of his pre-Jughead life, his motivations and basic personality remains constant. There were mirrors and reflections, but no Earth-shattering life changes for him - at least not yet. The on-island stuff was a lot more interesting, but even that seemed a little flat this week. Things I Noticed:

Man, I'm Gonna KILL My Guidance Counselor!

Can someone tell me where you sign up for James Ford's job? If sleeping with a suspect's hot wife in order to plant a trace seemed a little over the top for you guys, that's because it WAS over the top. There was very little realism in this week's opening scene, and a whole lot of (intentionally?) bad acting. The entire Ava/con storyline had an overly rehearsed feel to it, right down to James calling "LaFleur" to shatter the illusion and bring in reality.

It would be easy to chalk this scene up as a simple introduction to James Ford the LA cop, but that's not even the half of it. Instead, we're whisked away to a world of awful detective cliches: a wondrous land of cool badges hanging from long chains, of Laker tickets and blind dates with fast, fiery red-headed women who despite being ridiculously hot can't seem to get a guy on their own.

James tells Ava "I don't need saving", using the same line Claire gave Kate during Sundown. We know that on-island, Sawyer and Claire are in the same boat, having thrown in with the MIB version of John Locke. Off-island James Ford doesn't feel he needs saving either, despite still being emotionally tortured by the murder/suicide of his parents.

The most symbolic part of the scene however, comes as James is convincing his mark that she's busted. As far as Ava is concerned she knows where she is, what's going on, and what to do next. All of this is an illusion however, perpetuated by her own version of events. It falls away the moment James says his 'magic word', and the door busts open. In the blink of an eye, she realizes that nothing is not what it seems to be. Quite suddenly, everything changes.

Look at the background as Miles' team breaks into the room. We see a mirror image of the word HOTEL, as if the doorway represents peering through the looking glass to the other side. Yes, I know we're seeing the back side of the hotel's sign that probably faces the road. But at the same time, we're being shown all these mirror-image references for a definite reason. Time and time again, they shouldn't be ignored.

An even bigger clue comes back at the station as Miles serves coffee, taking the black mug while giving his partner the white one. James' mug has the word HOLLYWOOD written across it, as if to emphasize the acting, set-building, and trumped up feel to Sawyer's version of his sideways reality. Just as his encounter with Ava was all a set up, perhaps so is Sawyer's ALT. In that case it becomes a place of magic, mirrors, and special effects... in a single word, it's Hollywood.



Date a Redhead / Die Alone

Just as they were partners in the Dharma version of law-enforcement, Miles remains Sawyer's partner in the alternate reality as well. The two of them are the Ponch and Jon of LOST... those guys were always setting each other up on blind dates with overly-attractive (by 70's standards) women too. Those dates never ended in sex though. They were more likely to end in roller-skating, sharing sodas at the malt shop, and cheesy freeze-frame smiles just as the credits rolled.


We also learn here that Miles' father, presumably still Dr. Chang, got off the island as well - if he ever was on the island in the first place. His own watered-down version of the ALT-reality involves working for a museum.



Claire's Squirrel-Baby Looks LIke Jar-Jar Binks

At least we learned this week that Claire didn't think her baby was Aaron. Instead, she used it to replace the son she lost in order to maintain her maternal sanity. This didn't stop Kate from going "Ewwww" though.


Isn't It About Time For Zach To Ditch The Teddy Bear?

As Flocke tells his people that he'll be available for Q&A, Cindy chimes in by asking what happened to everyone else at the temple. The dark man tells the truth here - that the dark smoke killed them - but not the whole truth; something we've seen throughout LOST. Still, he also seems concerned with keeping everyone safely non-mutinous and reassured.

Every five minutes, Locke keeps promising to take care of everyone. It's as if the MIB has figured out what we've known all along: you get more flies with honey than with a shotgun... more compliance with explanation and answers than mysteries and silence. This is the opposite of Jacob's previous approach, leading to more mirror imagery and direct dichotomy between these two characters.

At the mention of smokey, Claire grips Kate's hand protectively. I thought she did this this to make it known that Kate's 'one of them', and to visually mark her as a loyal member of Flocke's crew. Despite Claire still being infected, this seemed to be a moment of clarity. Later in the episode however, I adopted a different opinion: Claire was scared. More on that later in the recap.


In A Kill Or Be Killed World, It's Good To Be A Smoke Monster

After calling Sawyer over to the new cool kids table, Flocke comes clean about being the smoke monster. Thinking back to what a huge mystery this once was, I thoroughly enjoyed this moment. Although not a revelation for us, this was a pretty big reveal as far as Sawyer was concerned. Still, it didn't even phase him. Sawyer's one true motivation remains the same: getting off the island for good. But by the end of the episode, as he bargains for his friends' safe passage as well? I think we start to see signs of old Sawyer shining through.

Again, it would've been easy for the dark man to lie here. Telling Sawyer the straight-up truth seems to be a refreshing change from all the secrecy and lies we've associated with LOST for so long. Even so, the smoke monster's admission has a deceitfully underlying purpose: he follows that truth by fibbing to Sawyer about why he's sending him to Hydra island, tricking him into going for made-up reasons. "Do whatever you can to gain their trust, find out what you can about them, and then get back here." Now where have we heard that before?

It's kind of interesting that the dark man doesn't do his own recon here. He's already told his army that they'll be sitting around camp for three days, so it's not like he has any pressing engagements. Maybe this has to do with him crossing the water. During dead is dead, Locke took his shoes off during the canoe ride over to the main island, and put them back on when he reached the dock. Yet if the water bothers him, why did we see a resurrected John Locke standing ankle-deep in the ocean right after the crash of Ajira 316? I'm not sure what the deal is with him and water, but something definitely seems up.

In the last part of their conversation, the dark man mentions taking the Ajira plane as a way off the island. I'm calling bullshit on this one, as he mentioned it only to keep Sawyer going. He may want to leave, but I don't think the plane (or the sub for that matter) has anything to do with the MIB's escape. I mean, where would he go? It's not like he's gonna just fly off to LA and take up a 9 to 5 job or something.


I Got To A Point In My Life Where I Was Either Going To Be A Criminal Or A Cop... So I Chose Cop. Because Hey, This Is The Alternate Reality, And That's How We ROLL, Son!

Gag me with a candy apple... Sawyer's whole date with Charlotte - from the ice-breaking banter to the cute little jokes - was over the top sugary and sticky-sweet. It was way too Days of Our Lives, and way too "take me to bed or lose me forever". Like Indiana Jones and his whip, it was also far too Hollywood... too "set me up with a beautiful blind date who wants to have sex an hour after meeting me" perfect.

In fact, everything's going amazingly well until James Ford asks Charlotte if she wants some water. Again, water acts as a catalyst for change. It's here that Charlotte stumbles across the Sawyer corner, replete with Watership Down, Anthony Cooper folders, newspaper clippings, and family photos of a much happier time. Sawyer's even got an 80's style boom-box and a container of petroleum jelly within easy reach - the staples of any good bachelor pad. Smooth, bro.

I guess my point here is that Sawyer's life is a little bit too stereotypically contrived. It's all too neat... as if Charlotte herself were a set up (not saying she is, not saying she isn't...) designed on cue to bring about a change of heart in this version of James Ford. It's like everything we've seen here was written for an episode of [insert crime drama], cheesy dialogue, unlikely situations and all.



Hydra Island... Now With 800% More Death, Carnage, and Flies!

Sawyer's trip down memory lane, much like Jack and Hurley's, was designed to instill ghost-town imagery wherever he walked. The deserted Ajira plane, the beating zoo... it felt a lot like that last episode of Survivor, where the final contestants walk past the burned-out torches of their eliminated comarades.

Revisiting this scenery from seasons past feels a lot like going back to your old childhood haunts and digging up some bittersweet memories. Kate's sundress is conveniently left where Sawyer can ponder their past together, helped out by sappy piano arrangement and some heavy sighing.

If Sawyer somehow ends up with Kate again, a good many people will go absolutely berserk... and probably rightfully so. Although it would be nice to have some closure within the original love triangle, Saywer's relationship with Juliet would be severely cheapened if he starts falling for Kate again within hours of her death. Not to mention that cup of coffee they're still supposed to go for, in this life or the next.

Eventually Sawyer meets up with Zoe, a girl who wins LOST's "suckiest at lying" award for all six seasons. "How many people are you? How many guns do you have?" It doesn't take a con man to know what was up here, and it didn't take long to see we were being introduced to a whole new crowd of people with guns and hidden agendas... again. Sawyer's "Take me to your leader" line was delivered with resigned sarcasm, reflecting exactly what we all felt at the moment, minus ten million eyerolls.


Mirrors, Fists, and Shattered Bromances

I'm not sure why Miles was so up-in-his-partner's-face about going out to Australia. "Trust" didn't seem a good enough reason to pull your friend's credit card info and throw him up against a row of lockers, at least not without some deep-seeded, unrequited man-feelings.

Then again, go back to earlier in the episode where Miles tells Sawyer "You know you can tell me the truth" (cue creepy music) "...about anything". Reflecting back, it's a little bit like Miles is watching over Sawyer in a suspiciously knowing way.

And like everyone else on the show, seeing himself in the mirror reflects back the truth to James Ford. Despite every attempt to be the Ponch to Miles' Jon, he's still obsessed with finding and killing the man responsible for the death of his parents. He can't be James Ford the happy and successful (and set up with a great girl, too) detective until he resolves his Anthony Cooper issues. And these aren't issues you can just shove aside... or lock away in your underwear drawer.


This Is Completely Inappropria- Wait! CATFIGHT!

"Sayid are you alright?" Hell no he's not alright. Claire's not alright either, and if Kate had brought her A-game she wouldn't be ass-down at knifepoint struggling to keep from getting an unwanted tracheotomy. Flocke steps in and tosses Claire off like a sack of potatoes, but not before reprimanding her like he's scolding a little girl.

And so this got me thinking... what if Claire is a little girl? Not in the physical sense of course, but in a mental sense maybe her mind got reset to when she was a kid. Think about that. She's prone to quick bouts of anger, then shows remorse later on by hugging Kate and crying. She holds Kate's hand... she plays with dolls... in essence, she's acting a lot like a scared, angry little girl.

Is this what the sickness reduces you to? Does it strip away the logical inhibitions an adult would have, leaving you with radically childlike tendencies? Did Vozzek just solve the sickness??? I vote 'hell yes' to all three.

Later on, Claire does seem legitimately sorry, as a child would after throwing a tantrum. Either the sickness itself isn't constant - allowing for moments of clarity and remembrance - or it's a twisted version of childhood. I'm leaning toward the latter, as it would make the sickness far more interesting and a lot less 'evil'.

If this is the case, the MIB is gonna have his hands full when Sayid decides he wants to play on the swingset... and delivers an unholy asskicking to anyone that tells him he can't.


I'm Sorry I Keep Stealing Jacob's Lines...

After the catfight, Flocke apologizes twice to Kate. He still seems overly concerned about keeping everyone happy, which makes sense because he knows that most people have been kept in the dark for too long. In trying to make amends, he accepts full responsibility for Claire's attack on Kate, and then uses Jacob's own line: "I'm sorry this happened" - yet another in a long line of direct connections between these two characters.


I've discussed the possibility that Jacob and the MIB are two halves of the same entity, and we see two types of evidence that point to this. The first are the mirrored and reversed traits: white and black, chaos and order, secrecy and full disclosure. Other evidence however, comes in the form of direct parallels between these characters: shared ideology, symbolism, and even identical dialogue. As these last few episodes fly by, keep this in mind and try to look for these things. More and more I get the feeling we're barking up the right tree.


When Kate asks where Sawyer went, Flocke offers to take her hand and show her. She refuses to accept his gesture of help, and gets up to follow him on her own accord. This keeps Kate markedly separate from everyone else on the MIB's crew who has made some type of deal with him. So far, Kate's done nothing of the sort.


All The Biggest Cowboys Have Mommy Issues

Flocke and Kate's conversation as he showed her Hydra island gave us more critical insight into the dark man's past. Once again he claims to be nothing but a man, something that has seemed very important to him these last few episodes. Whatever happened to the MIB, I'm starting to think he somehow lost his original form - the one we saw on the beach with Jacob during The Incident - for good.

Could it be that his physical body was destroyed, but his essence remained on the island in the form of the dark smoke? We already know he can take the form of those who've died, but over time even this seems to be wearing on him. Unlike Jacob, the MIB has no physical persona he can call his own, and it will be interesting to find out what exactly happened to his original body.

Even more mysterious: his mother. The dark man talks of once having a mother just like everyone else, but unlike everyone else his mom was crazy. Maybe she had the sickness when the MIB was just a boy, resulting in what happened to him. The way he spoke of his growing pains seemed like he was downplaying something a lot more horrific. His concerns about Aaron having a crazy mother may be a genuine reflection of him not wanting a child to go through the same thing he had to, and at times like this the MIB garners a lot of sympathy points. His character gets greatly humanized in this scene. Lots to process here, and I think it should make us go back and examine just who was talking to Claire in her season one visions and dreams.


Thanks Michael Landon!


"That's what life's all about - laughing and loving each other - and ***knowing that people aren't really gone when they die***

Yup, that's right... there's an "other side". There always has been, from the very beginning, yet so many people refuse to accept it. This is the proverbial curtain on the stage - the looking glass that separates everything we've seen so far from the real answers we've been salivating over since the show first started. I know it, lots of others know it, and Michael Landon definitely knows it.

If you've listened to the ODI Podcast, you already know my opinion on this. Everyone who's ever died on LOST has reached the other side. What's over there? An open bar, live music, and a lot of drunk "dead" people. Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Eko, Ana Lucia, Rose, Bernard, even Arzt, although they're serving him virgin drinks and still making fun of him whenever his back is turned.

What's that, Michael Landon? "We have all the good memories to sustain us ***until we see them again***. HUGE hints here. Just my opinion of course, but Mike's handing out big clues as to what we should expect at the end of the show.

Want less theorizing and more matter-of-fact reporting on this scene? I aim to please both sides here. With a little help from Michael Landon, Sawyer recognizes that hating on Cooper his whole life is preventing him from actually living a happy existence. He stops off at the Sunflower & Brew store and tries to make amends with Charlotte, but in her words "he blew it". Maybe it's too late for James Ford to turn over a new leaf, even in the ALT timeline.

As always with him, Sawyer sits on the fence between right and wrong, good and bad, convict and cop. The title's clever play on words seems to demonstrate the constant battle between the side of Sawyer that wants to do good, and the side that keeps falling back into more criminal activity. Ponch and Jon never plotted vengeance and murder, unless I missed that episode.


Awwww... What An Adorable Little Sonic Fence!

For about the 800th time, Saywer is marched somewhere at gunpoint. Widmore's sub has all the dark corridors and sinister locked rooms you'd think it should have, while above deck his crew begins setting up a low-budget version of a sonic perimeter. Someone should probably tell them there's only a half-season left.

In Widmore's quarters, Sawyer does almost all of the talking. He refuses to take Widmore's hand, then blames him for the death of the Ajira people. Pushing aside Widmore's denials, Sawyer cuts right to the chase: both of them know Locke is dead, yet he's still walking around and plotting new craziness. Sawywer however, makes the quick and possibly inaccurate assumption that Charles Widmore is here to do battle with the man in black.

"I'll bring the old man right to your doorstep... then you can kill him." Widmore smirks here, probably because he doesn't WANT to kill Flocke. It's hard to say what Widmore's motives are at this point, but he definitely knew Locke had to go back to the island. It also stands to reason he knew Locke would have to die to accomplish that goal. Therefore, if Widmore had wanted Jacob safe, he wouldn't have encouraged Locke to go back at all.

The only deal Sawyer's willing to shake on involves the safety of his friends. He's playing both sides of the fence to get what he wants, and doesn't seem to trust either side. He's a smart enough con to hedge his bets.


Puppy-Dog Eyes And An Ultra Lame Ending

Unfortunately, the ending of Recon was pretty lackluster. After giving Miles his best puppy-dog eyes, James Ford hands over the folder containing all his info on Anthony Cooper. It's unsure whether or not he plans to keep tracking the con man down, using the present tense as he tells Miles "When I find him, I'm gonna kill him".

As a good partner, Miles is obligated to talk Sawyer down off this ledge for a few days before ultimately helping find Cooper and bring him to justice. Sawyer's redemption comes the moment he catches Coop and refuses to kill him, which at this point would be pretty damned predictable. Cue fugitive Kate, a car crash, and yet another "son of a bitch!"

On-island, the ending is even worse. Sawyer and Kate could be playing 'I never', but instead they're discussing how to escape... not by plane, mind you... but BY SUB! Dun-Dun-DUUUUUNNNNN!!!! Sorry, but that just totally sucked.


So What Saves A Shitty Ending?

An incredible, jaw-dropping promo for next week's episode. If you refuse to watch it for fear of being spoiled, you're probably a Communist.

juloxx
03-17-2010, 12:39 PM
Are they gonna bring back that black fool and is son (one of them was named Walt, i think), or are we just supposed to forget they existed?

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 12:41 PM
juloxx, ignored.

mickflyy
03-17-2010, 12:42 PM
"that black fool" .....LMFAO

J~$$$$
03-17-2010, 12:44 PM
mickflyy, ignored

mickflyy
03-17-2010, 12:46 PM
like i said ...PENDEJO

juloxx
03-17-2010, 12:50 PM
juloxx, ignored.

Bout fucking time, I am finally spared of your bitch-fits.

But for real, what happened to this guy and his son?

http://arrowheadaddict.com/files/2009/04/harold.gif

chairmenmeow47
03-17-2010, 12:51 PM
did you not see christian tell michael he could go now???

donkey sex
03-17-2010, 07:34 PM
Sand be damned, Sawyer is gonna try to increase his island tally by taking down glasses girl on the beach without a blanket. For someone so seemingly unhappy with his situation he sure likes to take it out on unkept vaginas (you know it’s hairy). After seven years all the blades are dull.

Astrid
03-19-2010, 11:13 AM
I'm getting annoyed with all the rabbit references. There has been mention or an actual rabbit in every episode so far. I get it, it has to do with through the looking glass but enough already.

if youre referring to the watership down book on sawyers dresser, i think that was more of a reference to the s1 episode where boone sees sawyer reading it and realizes sawyer has stolen his bag with shannons inhalers in it. if that makes it any less repugnant to you?

also in regard to whomever said it was unbelievable when claire was all of the sudden nice, that is TOTALLY the way seriously deranged chicks act. unpredictable as fuck.

i didnt dig the crazy mom moment either. it was laughable to say the least. it was nice to get to some more sawyer time. he has become a really well developed and awesome character throughout the course of the show.

captncrzy
03-19-2010, 11:15 AM
Did any of you guys read this week's EW blog?

Very weird theory about who Smokey really is.

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,20313460,00.html

Cancersticks1
03-19-2010, 12:41 PM
Did any of you guys read this week's EW blog?

Very weird theory about who Smokey really is.

http://www.ew.com/ew/package/0,,20313460,00.html

Yeah, not with Doc on that one.

Monklish
03-19-2010, 12:46 PM
Short version?

captncrzy
03-19-2010, 01:03 PM
Go to the last page of that blog; it's where his Smokey theory is.

tessalasset
03-19-2010, 01:23 PM
oh jesus that's a long recap.

Cancersticks1
03-21-2010, 04:04 PM
Theory: Desmond is behind the locked door on the submarine, which is how Widmore was able to get back to the island. Just like Ben on Ajira.

J~$$$$
03-23-2010, 09:31 AM
You just ruined the surprise for me. That sounds like a pretty awesome theory.


I bet tonights episode is the best one ever.

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 09:35 AM
I predict major epicness from tonight's show. Major.

chairmenmeow47
03-23-2010, 09:39 AM
i have been thinking about this episode since the last one. cannot WAIT for tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!! :) :) :)

and i like the theory about desmond being on the sub. perhaps he has to go to the island in this alt timeline to win penny?

thestripe
03-23-2010, 11:41 AM
PUMPED.

chairmenmeow47
03-23-2010, 12:15 PM
someone just informed me that lost is running 6 minutes long tonight. set your DVRs accordingly.

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 12:16 PM
Seriously, thank you for letting me know this. I don't think they have that info on Directv.

thestripe
03-23-2010, 12:49 PM
That Doc blog is crazy. I don't want to agree with it, because some of it just sounds stupid. BUT. Smokey being the collective souls of the dead is a really cool thought.

atom heart
03-23-2010, 01:44 PM
Nkuq3_dcmo0

Cancersticks1
03-23-2010, 01:45 PM
Woah, thanks for the heads up! Something would have got stabbed.

chairmenmeow47
03-23-2010, 01:57 PM
here's an article about the 6 minutes over (http://www.forareasonblog.com/2010/03/20/lost-schedule-march-23-2010-warning-episode-will-run-six-minutes-over/)

Sexecutioner
03-23-2010, 02:15 PM
Woah, thanks for the heads up! Something would have got stabbed.

seriously...with DVRs so popular these days, this is a HORRIBLE thing to do. thanks for heads up ivy, thats huge!

chairmenmeow47
03-23-2010, 02:18 PM
i know!!! i get sooooooo annoyed that DVR can't account for this. if i say to record all episodes of a show, you as the cable company should be able to tell my DVR when it starts and stops!!!!

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 02:22 PM
I'm just going to record the entire night's worth of programming on that channel to be safe.

shotglass75
03-23-2010, 06:12 PM
IF THAT SHIT RICHARD JUST SAID IN THE FIRST THREE MINUTES OF THIS EPISODE IS TRUE I'M GONNA HACK DAMON LINDELOF UP WITH A FUCKING AXE.

But it can't be.

LOL!!!!! Hilarious

Cancersticks1
03-23-2010, 06:23 PM
not nearly as epic as it was supposed to be.

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 06:24 PM
The clouds here are causing satellite interruption and all of the local TV shows are skipping and pixelating and shit every few minutes. If they don't fix it soon I'm going to melt down.

I am fucking pissed off right now.

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 08:17 PM
It's all just one really big game.

arman
03-23-2010, 08:36 PM
this show sucks, why do i keep comin back to it

invisiblerobots
03-23-2010, 08:42 PM
Hmm, Tenerife. Air disaster connection.

captncrzy
03-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Sort of a weird nod to two planes that crashed into each other on an island.

mickflyy
03-23-2010, 09:36 PM
haha I knew it .... Although i thought they were in purgatory, but close enough.

invisiblerobots
03-23-2010, 10:27 PM
haha I knew it .... Although i thought they were in purgatory, but close enough.

What? Are suggesting that they're literally in hell? I'm not sure you've been paying attention.

Sexecutioner
03-23-2010, 11:02 PM
WOW, they just dropped the bomb. all these years and they finally tell us what the fuck is going on.

and yea, the purgatory/hell theory has been around since day 1. although doesnt seem like thats quite what is going on...

the question is...which one is really good and which one is really evil? i wouldnt be surprised if it turns out jacob is the devil. it seems otherwise, but its almost too obvious that smokey is the evil one right now.

tessalasset
03-23-2010, 11:53 PM
That was a fucking fantastic episode. I LOVED Alpert. I think they have totally under-utilized that actor for the entire goddamn series. I didn't even know he had that in him. Like up there with Michael Emerson. God damn. That might have been my favorite episode of the season.

atom heart
03-24-2010, 04:22 AM
WOW, they just dropped the bomb. all these years and they finally tell us what the fuck is going on.

and yea, the purgatory/hell theory has been around since day 1. although doesnt seem like thats quite what is going on...

the question is...which one is really good and which one is really evil? i wouldnt be surprised if it turns out jacob is the devil. it seems otherwise, but its almost too obvious that smokey is the evil one right now.

You don't seriously believe Richard, do you? The whole hell thing was just a way to play off Richard's fears to get him to do what they wanted (both Smokey AND Jacob). The scene where Jacob starts drowning Richard proves that Richard is in fact alive. Richard just came to distrust Jacob and so fell back to his original belief that he was dead and in hell.

By the way, beautifully shot episode. I thought that they had totally lost the knack for it in season four.

Somewhat Damaged
03-24-2010, 05:36 AM
My theory: the Man in Black used to be a normal human being until he was imbued with a supernatural gift by Jacob, just like Ricardo until he was granted his wish to live forever. But over time -- decades, centuries -- the Man in Black grew disillusioned with Jacob for much the same reason Ben did and Richard has, hence his dubbing Jacob "the devil" and claiming that he took his body.

i812many
03-24-2010, 06:07 AM
In the first episode where Jacob and MIB were talking on the beach and the ship was just off land it was a nice sunny day, unless that was a different ship than the Black Rock they have a continuity problem.

chairmenmeow47
03-24-2010, 08:57 AM
The clouds here are causing satellite interruption and all of the local TV shows are skipping and pixelating and shit every few minutes. If they don't fix it soon I'm going to melt down.

I am fucking pissed off right now.

my dad had the same problem. this is exactly why i have cable! the cable company also caught that it was going 6 minutes over, so no DVR issues.

so i liked the episode. it could have had more answers, but i agree with tessa that richard did some good acting. my one disappointment was that this was one of the few episodes of lost where i was able to call everything before it happened. i knew hurley was talking to richard's wife the second we saw her, i knew he was going to run to dig up the necklace and i knew the man in black would smash the bottle of wine. the ending was also a bit lackluster. i did like the captain going crazy on the ship and stabbing everyone. and what was up with that asshole priest who stole richard's bible? and the asshole doctor? what was that cure anyways?

i guess we know a few things now after that episode:


we know how the statue fell
we know richard lives forever (even though we all suspected this)
we know the man in black is not the smoke monster's true form
we know that it doesn't seem to matter where or when someone died for hurley to be able to talk to them
we know the black rock was charted by hanso
we now have confirmation of my original theory that richard is just a representative of the island.

things we kind of know:


we can assume that the isabella on the slave ship and the isabella with hurley in the woods are probably not the same since they had different outfits and different agendas (the isabella on the ship was most likely the smoke monster as we all probably assumed)
we kind of know that jacob is not jesus or anything like that (since he can't absolve sins)
we kind of know that jacob has limits as to how he can "heal" people and that he probably can't just bring people back to life that aren't on the island already.


i hate that trailer that showed sun lying on the ground by the tree, TEASE!!!!!!!!!

captncrzy
03-24-2010, 09:05 AM
We also now have a nice analogy of what the island actually is

J~$$$$
03-24-2010, 09:20 AM
We also now have a nice analogy of what the island actually is

???

J~$$$$
03-24-2010, 09:21 AM
!!!


Wow, just #&@^ing WOW. Things I Noticed: "Ab Aeterno" by Vozzek69
Posted by DarkUFO at 3/24/2010 04:52:00 PM View Comments
Labels: Ab Aeterno, Recaps, Vozzek69
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Illana Cleans Up Pretty Damned Good

There's one small problem with Jacob healing Illana in that hospital, and it involves him not touching her. From what we've seen so far, Jacob's touch has been required to manipulate or bring about change, and by the end of this episode we even watched him physically bestow his gift upon Richard. In the Illana scene however, we've known since The Incident that Jacob wore gloves. This seemed an obvious precaution against him touching her, even by accident.

So how did Illana get healed? We don't see it, but I don't think the healing is the important part. Maybe Jacob left Illana untouched because he needed her unmanipulated. Maybe he needed her pure and unbiased so that - in his own words - she could decide for herself what was right and wrong. Perhaps the very act of marking his playing pieces has invalidated their decision-making process, voiding them out as examples for Jacob's argument that people can change? If so, it would make the characters he hasn't touched yet a lot more important in the future.


Did You Rewatch Richard's Laugh About Twelve Times? Me Too.

Back "where it all began", everyone's playing a rousing, firelight game of What Do We Do Next? Illana steps up to the plate, quoting Jacob and pointing to Richard as somehow being the key. Here we have a character who, especially recently, seemed to be completely in the dark about what's been going on. Richard's been clueless since Jacob got stabbed... yet once again, we see someone who has some sort of hidden knowledge or purpose that not even they themselves know about. Just as it would seem that Richard is indeed "he who will save us all", he laughs mockingly and walks off into the jungle night.

We can't really blame Richard here. By now he's in the same boat as Ben: a guy who's played by Jacob's rulebook all his life (and then some), only to find out there never was a plan. Jacob's communication skills have traditionally sucked, and perhaps later in this episode we find out why. After his brief conversation with Richard on the beach, it seemed like Jacob learned something important: that the very act of illumination or explanation might be influencing the decisions his subjects make. Direct interference has been inadvertently corrupting the point he's been trying to make, marking the whole experiment null and void. This may be why everyone else is dead, and nothing has so far has worked to prove the dark man wrong.

Want to go a step further? Richard's own conversation with him is what exactly made Jacob realize the need for an impartial go-between. Jacob creates Richard's job because, after realizing Richard's point, he recognizes the necessity of giving orders without handing out answers. Alpert essentially creates his own position. In that respect, Richard becomes the cause of his own suffering. He wanders the island for the next 150 years as an ancient adviser with very little real knowledge to share, he himself nothing more than a middle man kept in the dark about most things.


As Long As We're Going Back To The Beginning, We May As Well Mention Death/Hell/Purgatory Again

Before Richard stomps off, we get a reveal so big it can't possibly be true: yes, everyone IS dead. Yes, everyone IS in hell... or Purgatory... or wherever it is that souls need to go to reconcile their past lives before moving on. Our main characters receive this news with the same impassivity as the rest of us, knowing it's too far fetched to be the one big answer. As snugly as that puzzle piece would fit right into LOST, after five and a half seasons it's just not something we can accept at this point.

So no, I don't think everyone is dead. I don't think everyone's in hell. I will however, say this: the way Richard looked specifically at Jack when he said "You're dead"? I happen to think that was tremendously important. If anyone did die during the plane crash, maybe it was Jack. Maybe that's why he woke up so far removed from 815's wreckage. Maybe that's also why his tattoo says "He walks among us (i.e. 'the living'), but is not one of us". Maybe that's what Achara saw in him back in Thailand that scared the shit out of her. So maybe, just maybe, when Richard said that Jack is dead, he hit the nail right on the head... without even really knowing it.

Where's Ji... Er, Oh, I Mean 'He Meant Locke'

Looks like Sun got a new line this episode. Together she and Ben catch Jack up to speed on John Locke's resurrection and newfound badassedness, but Jack doesn't seem all that surprised. The typical S6 reaction to this level of news is about the same as finding a polar bear in the jungle during season one. "Really? Whoa. That's strange." Not sure anything would phase new Jack at this point anyway.


Same Rain, Different Island

We've been waiting a long, long time for Richard's backstory, and I'm thrilled to say it didn't disappoint. What made it all the better though, was an absolutely incredible performance by Nestor Carbonell. Galloping through thunderstorms, the humble way Ricardo bowed his head as he tried to buy medicine for his sick wife instantly opened our hearts to him. If there were Easter eggs or hidden meaning during these Canary Island scenes, I totally and happily missed out on them.

Turns out there's a lot more to Richard than immortality and guyliner - there's a hardworking, loving husband. Desperate to save Isabella, Richard is willing to do anything and everything... and this is unfortunately where LOST has taken advantage of many of our best characters. As viewers, we know Ricardo never meant to kill the town doctor in the puffy shirt and mutton-chop sideburns. But in terms of the island? That one hasty act requires seemingly endless penance.

Again, I can't say enough about how amazing Nestor Carbonell was in this episode. Watching Richard's life spiral to the ground in such a short time span was heartbreaking. The writers made us watch angrily as the doctor threw Isabella's pendant to the floor, followed immediately by the overly righteous priest clipping his dead wife's bible. The symbolism in that scene was a little more obvious: Richard in white, the priest in black, along with the offer of food... right away it reminded me of the opening of The Incident. The priest tells Richard he can't be absolved for murder because he hasn't done proper penance, and unfortunately for him, there's just not enough time. Later on Richard would ask Jacob for that time, driven mostly out of the fear of dying and going to hell.
Strong hands and English lessons end up saving Ricardo's life, but they're also responsible for placing him on the island. Magnus Hanso ends up physically owning Richard, and it was interesting that the writers went out of their way to tell us that. Seeing Hanso himself would've been cool, but keeping him a mystery was equally so. I guess they needed Whitfield as the evil throwaway character - the proverbial pilot who gets sucked through the cockpit upon arrival on the island.


I Hope Those Waves Didn't Ruin Jacob's Tapestry

At long last, we finally got to see the Black Rock's ultra-dramatic arrival on the island. Waves cresting as high as the 4-toed statue's head plunge it deep into the jungle, crashing it through the statue in the process. This takes place, as is so often the case throughout LOST, during a spectacular thunderstorm. More important than that though, it also takes place at night.

For this reason, maybe the ship we saw during The Incident wasn't the Black Rock at all, but some other ship containing another crew of poor random souls. The weather isn't the only thing that points to this fact - Jacob and the Dark man both wear shorter, cleaner-cropped hair than they did when they were first introduced last season. It's like they were powdery-fresh from the nearest barber shop, shaved necks and everything.

And if Jacob brought the Black Rock to the island, maybe the dark man caused the wreck. Perhaps he's even responsible for the storm, too. We already know the MIB protests new people being brought to the island, so it would make sense that he'd try to sink or destroy the ship. In a vengeful way, it even makes sense that he'd ram the prow of the Black Rock right into Jacob's statue... almost as if saying "You want it? HERE!" and shoving the vessel down Jacob's throat. These two characters definitely revel in sending messages to each other, as indicated later on when Richard brings the dark man a white rock on Jacob's behalf.


People In The 19th Century Sure Were Sword-Happy Dicks

"They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt..." Damn, Whitfield proved every one of these things within 15 minutes of arriving on the island. Maybe this is why the smoke monster showed up so quickly, dropping the hammer right down on the Black's Rock's crew. None of the officers here were Jacob-type material, or at least none of them contained qualities that could prove his point. This allowed fast, hard judgment on the part of the dark man.

If it seemed the middle part of this episode dragged a bit, that's because it did. Yet in hindsight, it was necessary for us to see Richard get broken down to his absolute lowest point. This was a slow process, starting with the rainwater being just of reach as Richard is dying of thirst. Still determined to live, he pries a nail from the floorboard to chip away at his bonds.

That's where the man in black comes in again. The first time he scanned Richard as the smoke monster, to draw from his memories. This time he arrives in the form of a boar, to knock the nail from Richard's hand. As Richard realizes he's lost any real chance for escape, his despair runs even deeper. Again, the dark man leaves him to wallow in that desperation for a while longer, bringing him to a weaker and weaker state.

Then, in one of the dirtiest of all known tricks, the MIB shows up as Isabella. After giving him false hope, she runs from Richard's clinging grasp only to be crushed by the smoke monster. This destroys any last trace of fight, or even will to live, within Ricardo. And as he lays there utterly and completely broken, that's when the man in black finally moves to recruit him - first touching him on the shoulder.

He goes on letting Richard think they're in hell, mainly because it serves his purpose but also because the MIB is indeed trapped in his own personal hell. He also doesn't waste any time in getting to his point, convincing Richard he'll need to "kill the devil". The way the dark man gets Richard to agree to do anything he asks is almost like cheating; although still giving him a choice, he's been closely and directly influencing Richard's environment for several days now.

One cool thing we get confirmation on: the dark man can manifest himself based upon other people's memories. We've seen hints that this was possible during The Cost of Living, when he appeared as ghosts of the drug dealers Mr. Eko had killed with his machete. Up until that point we'd only seen the dark man use physical bodies he'd accessed while on the island: Christian Shephard, Yemi, and later on Alex. But just as he plucked those ghosts from Eko's past after scanning him, the dark man was able to take Isabella's form after scanning Richard. His abilities to take the shape of people are limited only to what he knows and sees.

Are You Done Eating? Cool, Because I Need You To Stab Someone For Me

For the second straight episode, the dark man fully admits to being the smoke monster. This blunt truth is actually detrimental to the story he's cooking up - believing it was the monster who killed his wife, Richard nearly balks at hearing the news. The MIB quickly backtracks, letting Richard know it was the devil that swiped Isabella and not him, hastily correcting what was almost too revealing a mistake.

The fact is, the MIB really can't help himself here. We learn that he holds Jacob responsible for stealing his form, and therefore his humanity. He can't even mask his anger long enough to lie. It's also obvious by now that the character being played by Titus Welliver probably isn't the original incarnation of the man who became the smoke monster, but likely just another human form he's taken for the time being.

Sometime, long ago, something happened between him and Jacob that ended with the dark man losing his physical form. The black smoke is all that's really left of the man he once was, and this is why he refuses to deny or lie about being the monster. To betray that one true image would be to deny all that's left of him, and the dark man is too proud to do so... even when lying his ass off and creating a story where Jacob is the devil who took Richard's wife.

It was also cool to see Dogen's dagger again. Apparently it works the same on Jacob as it does on the MIB, which is yet another nod toward the theory that these characters are nothing but two halves of one whole being. Jacob got the name, identity, and original human form... the dark man got the kickass smoke powers and ability to manifest himself as other people. They're as opposite as black and white can get, yet still cut from the same mold.

Technically, the MIB isn't really lying when he tells Richard he has the ability to let him "see his wife" again. What Richard doesn't realize is that the MIB's promise doesn't truly involve giving Isabella back to him. Again, the dark man has stuck around long enough to offer the one thing Richard wants more than anything else. His recruitment process involves promises that, so far, it seems he'll be unable to keep.

Jacob - Gentle Pacifist, But Not Afraid To Open The Occasional Can of Whoop-Ass

Opposite the MIB's approach, Jacob's beatdown of Richard was more physical than mental. It's not until he drags him into the churning surf that Richard finally realizes he's not dead or in hell at all. This baptism marks the beginning of Jacob's recruitment (and the beginning of Ricardo's new life), as he sits Richard down to explain who and what the dark man is. He also gives us an all-important glimpse into the island's exact purpose.

In every sense we're looking at Pandora's box. Jacob is the lock that keeps it closed, and the man in black represents the malevolence and evil trapped inside. Jacob describes the island as a cork, keeping that evil from spreading into the world. As long as Jacob lives, the man in black can't escape the island. The game these two characters play is an internal struggle for control: the dark man seeks release, and Jacob wants to keep things exactly where they are.

This would seem to go against Jacob's assertion that progress is being made. On the contrary however, Jacob is actively seeking to prove his point. He flat out explains LOST's most basic principal as his own philosophy: people need to do good or bad by their own choice. If he has to interfere or influence them in any way, his point is disproved and therefore meaningless. Over and over he's tried, and over and over he's failed, ending in the deaths of all those people he's brought to the island.

It's here that Richard points out the flaw in Jacob's logic: just because he's not influencing the people who come to the island, it doesn't mean the dark man isn't corrupting them himself. If you watch as Jacob first encounters Richard he actually seems frustrated that he's already been reached, or even touched, by the man in black. At this point Jacob realizes the need to protect his subjects from such outside influence, and that's where Richard's job as adviser comes in. Through the use of obscure lists and direction, Jacob's people can help those who arrive on the island's shores make their own choices without directly interfering in those choices themselves. That, in essence, is the crux of LOST.

One other thing about Pandora's box: although it contained a whole host of really bad stuff, it also contained something else: hope. Lessons of hope and faith have been drilled hard all throughout LOST, amongst the rest of the island's chaos.

Unlike the dark man, Jacob doesn't promise Richard his wife back, telling him simply "I can't do that". This seems out of place; according to Dogen, Jacob promised to restore his son's life in return for service on the island. Did Dogen really encounter Jacob, or did he unknowingly meet with the man in black? We'll probably never know, but it does seem an inconsistency. We also know that the MIB is willing to lie - especially about Jacob - to get people to follow him and do what he wants.

On The Spanish Speaking Side of That Coin...

By the same token, we can't completely absolve Jacob of outside interference either. Throughout the show, we've seen ghostly appearances by people who we know to be dead. Here, Richard's wife Isabella shows up to speak to him for the first time in a century and a half... using Hurley as an otherworldly, Spanish-speaking go-between.

Make no mistake about it: Richard was seconds away from joining team Flocke. Hugo arrived in the nick of time to turn Richard around, preventing the dark man from gaining a valuable recruit. The biggest question however, becomes this: did we really see Isabella speaking to her husband? Or did we see Jacob's own version of Isabella, strategically placed there to sway Richard back to his own team?

Manipulation goes both ways. It wouldn't be all too surprising to find out that Jacob is interfering here, in a much more direct manner. Then again, why wouldn't Jacob appear to Richard as Isabella himself? Why would he take a silent and invisible form of Richard's wife, and then use Hurley to speak to him? Either Jacob is playing that same middle-man game again, or we really are seeing Isabella here. The way she spoke to him it certainly sounded like Richard's wife, and she even knew to tell him to close his eyes.

I half expected Richard to open his eyes and see his wife here, which would've been really cool. Watching it again, I think maybe he actually did feel her. Overall, the whole thing seemed pretty real to me. I don't think Jacob was bullshitting or manipulating... I tend to think what we saw was genuine. There's certainly evidence for both sides of this argument, but that's my gut feeling.

Leave The Dagger, Take The Rock

Back in 1867, Jacob sends Ricardo back to the dark man with a message - sans dagger, of course. Yet instead of demonstrating anger, the man in black is understanding and even apologetic towards Richard. He obviously does this in order to leave the door open for future recruitment. He's already invested some time and energy into winning this playing piece, and he knows he's promised Richard something that Jacob never will: the ability to be reunited with his wife again.

In time, after much more frustration, the dark man realizes Richard will eventually arrive at another low point in his life. When that time happens, he wants Richard to remember his offer. He gives Richard back his wife's golden pendant and crucifix as a physical reminder of that promise, enabling him to change his mind at any time.

The Man In Black... Not That Big a Drinker

In a mirror image of The Incident's beach scene, Jacob approaches the man in black for a sit-down meeting. Everything we've learned about these two characters is solidified here, including their roles. There's no deception, no reason to lie, and no one else around to impress. In short, we can accept the very frank discussion they have here as a straight-up, real-deal representation of exactly what's going on.

Jacob can apparently be killed, and he knows it. His presence is the only thing keeping the man in black from leaving the island. This puts Jacob in the position of eternal guardian, a role he seems content enough with. It's also a role that can be transferred to or inherited by someone else, should the man in black succeed in killing his arch-nemesis. Jacob reminds him of this, as if to point out the futility of killing him.

We also see that Jacob's mention of candidates predates the crash of Flight 815. This means he knows in advance that he's going to die, and has been busy planning ahead by preparing a successor. The dark man has been equally busy destroying Jacob's potential candidates - if not physically, by at least corrupting them enough that they're no longer suitable to inherit Jacob's job. As The Others would put it, they're no longer one of the "good" ones.

It's unclear whether the dark man can actually be killed, or if he himself represents the evil and maleovelence Jacob spoke of to Richard. The mission Sayid sent Dogen on seemed to infer that he could actually be destroyed, but I'm not entirely sold on that. I tend to think the man in black isn't evil himself, but that instead he represents a dereliction of duty. Maybe he and Jacob are both required to keep the cork sealed - black and white together - and the dark man is finally sick of babysitting the island.

Just as the Swan hatch acted as a cork for unlimited magnetic energies, the island acts as a cork to keep corruption and wickedness at bay. This explains why Ms. Hawking (and probably Charles Widmore) understand the gloomy ramifications should the island fail to contain this wellspring of darkness. In fact, it might even explain Widmore's return to the island: he's always fancied himself as Jacob's replacement. I could totally see Widmore's fanatical devotion lending him a sense of entitlement to Jacob's position, with the very desire for that power corrupting him and disqualifying him from assuming the role. All other explanations for Widmore's motives don't seem to make any sense, at least not right now.

The Shape of Things To Come

Ab Aeterno not only lived up to the hype, I think it surpassed expectations. Richard's story was beautifully told, almost straight through, without the constant distraction of flashing back to island events. We got very big answers to long-standing mysteries, and we learned tons of new information regarding the rivalry between Jacob and the man in black. We also learned what the island is, metaphorically speaking.

Shit is winding down, and answers are finally here. Drink them in, and let's wait for the next inevitable step: Jacob and MIB's backstory. LOST can't end until we've seen that beginning.

Astrid
03-24-2010, 10:21 AM
i didnt read the review yet, so sorry if that makes what im saying superfluous.

fucking loved the episode, richard is a badass, and he looks damn sexy with a beard. i havent felt that bad for anyone on the show since the episode where desmond turns the failsafe key, blowing up the swan, getting blasted back to penny only to wake up on the island. fucccccck.

BUT, two things this episode has called into question for me:
1. (assuming MIB was using isabellas form, i think it would be stupid to do otherwise at this point) does this mean he can take the shape of anyone who is dead? he doesnt need physical contact with their bodies? that pretty much goes against what we have seen so far (christian, alex, locke) seems a little shitty to me. perhaps richard was hallucinating?

2. seeing as both dogan and MIB really stressed that the stabbing had to be done before any words were spoken, and with a very specific knife, what does that mean for jacobs death? he most definitely spoke to ben beforehand. i dont remember whether it was the same knife, but i dont think so. i find it hard to believe you arent supposed to let them speak because theyre both so fucking persuasive, and the knife is just a cool knife. what does it all mean?!?

thestripe
03-24-2010, 10:37 AM
Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it had something to do with Isabella's necklace? MiB gives Richard the necklace back after he joins team Jacob. Or maybe it's like old voss says, MIB scans memories and uses their forms.


Last night had the best acting that I've ever seen on Lost. The episode was great. It's hard to believe that it gave us as much information as it did.

Cancersticks1
03-24-2010, 10:38 AM
Well we have seen the spectres of the horse and Ben's mother, so it's not really that much of a stretch. Also, we've seen Hurley talk to countless ghosts while off the island. So I don't think the rules have been very clearly defined. One thing in the recap struck me though, vozzek makes an argument about how Jacob says he can't resurrect people citing Dogen's son. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't think Dogen's son was dead when Jacob made him the offer. I thought he was terminal, so Jacob only needed to heal him, not resurrect him.

captncrzy
03-24-2010, 10:39 AM
Yeah, Dogen's son wasn't dead. He was "spared".

Astrid
03-24-2010, 10:44 AM
yeah i can accept the memories explanation.

also i like this theory a LOT: Maybe he and Jacob are both required to keep the cork sealed - black and white together - and the dark man is finally sick of babysitting the island.

i cant really by that MIB is evil incarnate. we know he used to be a man, his humanity basically invalidates it as a possibility. also just from watching him for this season, hes not that evil. just a manipulative little fuck, but he has some compassion. unless perhaps HE is "the best liar [we've] ever seen"

alssssso, the "its nice to see you out of those chains" moment totally absolved any frustration i had with that moment initially. it made me love this show even fucking more. most excellent.

Leeartlee
03-24-2010, 10:46 AM
In the words of Vozzek69


Wow, just #&@^ing WOW.

thestripe
03-24-2010, 10:57 AM
I heard someone mention The Howling Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man) when trying to explain MIB not seeming to be evil. So I wiki'd it.

I love how people find the most obscure shit and apply it to the show. Really cool.

chairmenmeow47
03-24-2010, 10:59 AM
i am quite disappointed that i've never seen that episode of the twilight zone!!!

Leeartlee
03-24-2010, 11:07 AM
I heard someone mention The Howling Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Howling_Man) when trying to explain MIB not seeming to be evil. So I wiki'd it.

I love how people find the most obscure shit and apply it to the show. Really cool.

That's because this show brings the awesome out of everyone who watches it. God, 2011 is going to be fucking bleak

Blinken
03-24-2010, 12:19 PM
I have been thinking for awhile that the smoke monster is what the island is protecting the world from. Just imagine that thing loose in downtown LA, complete chaos. I don't see how Flocke getting off the island can lead to anything good.

chairmenmeow47
03-24-2010, 12:34 PM
still haven't read vozzek's recap, so sorry if this is in the recap.

i think last night helped to confirm the theory that hurley is "the one" to succeed jacob. jacob in last night's episode he wanted to find one person who can determine right from wrong without jacob having to tell them what that is. hurley is a great candidate for this. not only because he's such a nice guy, but also because there's nothing he's "lost" or "needs" that the smoke monster could provide that would make hurley sacrifice his values. this is also a downfall for him in a way though, because without that desire, he might be more likely to to say "screw this island" and go into hiding with some dharma apollo bars. i find it interesting that jacob almost always sends hurley on missions that involve his friends. his friends seem to be the only thing that hurley is willing to sacrifice himself for.

that was a ramble and probably pointless, sorry :)

Leeartlee
03-24-2010, 12:46 PM
No, Vozzek didn't touch on the Hurley angle. Nice catch :)

GeezrRckr
03-24-2010, 01:22 PM
That was a fucking fantastic episode. That might have been my favorite episode of the season.
agreed, tessa! loved it.


I LOVED Alpert. I think they have totally under-utilized that actor for the entire goddamn series. I didn't even know he had that in him. Like up there with Michael Emerson. God damn.
or did they? maybe they chose him with this episode in mind. dunno, but he was supremely epic last night.

digitaldragon03
03-24-2010, 01:24 PM
Lost in Spanish, epic.

"I see the devil...This island is protected by the devil!" - Epic.

The shot at the end of the episode where the camera panned to the right, then zoomed in on Locke's face as he turned to look in the distance, epic.

The Howling Man video (http://www.cbs.com/classics/the_twilight_zone/video/index.php?pid=CMn1vaTft9Nv9niDLnnMu8OTw69hyQEa)

tessalasset
03-24-2010, 01:43 PM
God I love this show so much.

Even if they hired him just for that episode specifically, it still bums me out that we never got to see how great of an actor he is until last night. That makes me want to go out and watch other things he's been in. I seriously had NO idea he had that in him. He's been so calm and dull this entire time. That was an insane change.

shotglass75
03-24-2010, 03:04 PM
Without The Devil there is no need for God. Without God there is no need for The Devil.

atom heart
03-24-2010, 06:06 PM
I was a little worried about it because I didn't know if he could carry a whole episode. But, my god, he OWNED it.

Things he's been in? I can only think of the Dark Knight. Oh and I ran into this:
ZFyzGkBKkBw

Aren't you glad he didn't have that accent?

J~$$$$
03-24-2010, 06:23 PM
Jes.

tessalasset
03-25-2010, 02:28 AM
Holy shit I'm so pissed I didn't see this tweet from Damon Lindelof until right now.


Santa Monica Apple Store Event in thirty minutes. Me, CC and any fan who has the moxie to tell us how much they can't stand the sideways!
5:32 PM Mar 18th via web

tessalasset
03-25-2010, 02:33 AM
ps join this facebook group if you liked his performance as much as i did:

Nestor Carbonell deserves an Emmy (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=108988709120335&ref=nf)

malcolmjamalawesome
03-25-2010, 06:58 AM
I get what Ivy's saying ... but also it seems clear that the reason Hurley is doing the talking for Jacob is because only Hurley can see and hear dead people.

chairmenmeow47
03-25-2010, 07:03 AM
you're right MJA. i just thought of all that because vozzek has had a theory that hurley is "the one" before we even met jacob.

malcolmjamalawesome
03-25-2010, 07:03 AM
Is there any way that this show isn't actually as good as I think it is?

Leeartlee
03-25-2010, 08:18 AM
Now you've done it. Expect a polar to kill you while you sleep tonight

bballarl
03-25-2010, 10:37 AM
I don't really have anything to add to this conversation other than the episode was pretty good and things are definitely moving forward.

tessalasset
03-25-2010, 03:58 PM
Is there any way that this show isn't actually as good as I think it is?

i don't think so.

J~$$$$
03-26-2010, 10:43 AM
from "just cause 2" the video game (easter egg).....the developers must be big fans of LOST. The plane explodes when you get close to the island too. nothing exciting, but im nerd for video games and lost sooo....
t8r7rlJQ3pk&feature

ShyGuy75
03-26-2010, 11:00 AM
So here's a curious question:

is the flash sideways what would have happened if "the cork came out?"

no.

now go outside and play in the yard for a bit.

thestripe
03-26-2010, 11:02 AM
I remember a few years back, hearing rumors about a smoke monster spin off. I thought it was such a stupid idea at the time. Not so much now. Does anyone remember hearing that?

J~$$$$
03-26-2010, 11:04 AM
Like my two dads type of comedy?

Leeartlee
03-26-2010, 11:04 AM
from "just cause 2" the video game (easter egg).....the developers must be big fans of LOST. The plane explodes when you get close to the island too. nothing exciting, but im nerd for video games and lost sooo....
t8r7rlJQ3pk&feature

.... that's fucking awesome

(See's if he can afford Just Cause 2)

tessalasset
03-26-2010, 01:01 PM
is that not affiliated with Lost in some way?

i take it the guy making the video just played the Lostiest theme over the game, but are they legally allowed to get away with the plane crash on the beach and the hatch? i wonder what they're legally allowed to do.

digitaldragon03
03-26-2010, 01:08 PM
Imagine if there was no way to open that hatch, but the developers said there was only one way and they werent going to tell how...Id be stuck for years trying to get that thing open like Locke.

J~$$$$
03-26-2010, 01:28 PM
Dynamite from the black rock.

kitt kat
03-26-2010, 02:46 PM
watching right now............

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh richard

tessalasset
03-26-2010, 11:29 PM
SDSOLDIER get your ass in here.

weeklymix
03-26-2010, 11:30 PM
What is this?

tessalasset
03-27-2010, 01:02 AM
WEEKLY! come talk abnout lost with us. and dont leave chat when youre not really leaving goddammit.

atom heart
03-27-2010, 09:10 AM
The other side of the coin:

Emily Nussbaum on being a hater (http://nymag.com/daily/tv/2010/03/the_haters_lament.html#comments)

I think she's a little too hung up on the good/evil thing especially given how manipulative both Jacob and Smokey were in that ep. Her recap is pretty scathing.

chairmenmeow47
03-27-2010, 09:58 AM
i can't believe i missed a lost conversation last night :(

tessalasset
03-27-2010, 11:33 AM
yeah dude! sdsoldier and i were talkin it up. you left too early. im going to target today to exchange my cam for one that has a mic. i was too cheap yesterday when i bought it. mic is totally worth it.

atom heart
03-29-2010, 10:20 AM
http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/03/jacob_bowling.jpg (http://www.bestweekever.tv/2010-03-10/mystery-solved-jacob-from-lost-actually-works-for-jackie-treehorn/)

chairmenmeow47
03-29-2010, 11:18 AM
yeah dude! sdsoldier and i were talkin it up. you left too early. im going to target today to exchange my cam for one that has a mic. i was too cheap yesterday when i bought it. mic is totally worth it.

WE SHOULD DO A LOST CHAT TOMORROW AFTER LOST!!!!!!!!!!!! is there a way to make a tiny chat coachella lost link or something? i'll try and figure it out tonight. i was so tired last night. my meds make me sleepy.

tessalasset
03-29-2010, 12:41 PM
i totally will. i always go watch it at someone else's place tho. tomorrow i'll be at gabe and jen's, so i wont be in immediately afterward. but i'll make it in eventually and hopefully you'll still be there.

chairmenmeow47
03-29-2010, 01:01 PM
awesome tessa, hopefully we can make it work :)

and thanks pants!

J~$$$$
03-30-2010, 02:35 PM
Tonights episode is going to suck. I really dont care about juice and jin anymore.

mickflyy
03-30-2010, 02:37 PM
^^^Agreed. There story became boring a while back.

captncrzy
03-30-2010, 02:39 PM
Tonights episode is going to suck. I really dont care about juice and jin anymore.

I read the Dark UFO spoilers and there's going to be some interesting things revealed tonight (not having to do with those two).

J~$$$$
03-30-2010, 02:45 PM
Dont get me wrong Wreckx-are-n-Effect, but I just don't care if they get back together.

chairmenmeow47
03-30-2010, 02:54 PM
i admit, i care. and i used to HATE sun storylines. i still don't understand how jin lived through the freighter explosion. that was fucking ridiculous.

atom heart
03-30-2010, 03:04 PM
The island needed Jin. In the context of Jack et al getting sucked off of the Ajira flight, it's kind of more consistent than it could be.

chairmenmeow47
03-30-2010, 03:05 PM
i get the loophole. i just think it was obnoxious to have him standing in the middle of a freighter that was expoding to bits, have such a powerful reaction from sun and then he magically lives just because the island wants him to.

tessalasset
03-30-2010, 03:32 PM
i have to admit i'm also not too excited about tonight's ep. they drew this one out way too long.

atom heart
03-30-2010, 06:14 PM
Fuuuuucccckkkk I wish they would get to the point! Also, called the "package".

Cancersticks1
03-30-2010, 06:26 PM
Nailed it.

chairmenmeow47
03-30-2010, 07:32 PM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/843909-1/Complaint.png

Cancersticks1
03-30-2010, 07:49 PM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/843909-1/Complaint.png

Haha! Seriously.

benhur
03-30-2010, 07:56 PM
took long enough to bring des back

captncrzy
03-30-2010, 08:25 PM
Desmond is the constant.

tessalasset
03-30-2010, 10:59 PM
im done with desmond. bummer.

bballarl
03-30-2010, 11:26 PM
Loved Desmond staring all confused at Apocalypse Now-channeling Sayid.

Astrid
03-31-2010, 12:59 AM
http://www.brandimills.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/batmanuel-2.jpg
found this gem tonight.

so fucking glad desmond is back. his moment with sayid was priceless. next week is going to be a total boner party.

i also loved sawyers like "No, because that would be ridiculous". Brilliant.

tessalasset
03-31-2010, 01:32 AM
yeah jennie and i laughed out loud at that line. +10, lost writers.

thestripe
03-31-2010, 06:46 AM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/843909-1/Complaint.png

Srsly. With the countdown clock too! Nobody gives a shitty about that stupid show.

ShyGuy75
03-31-2010, 06:55 AM
Widmore's about to reveal the "who" in the secret compartment. I'm saying it's either Walt or Jacob

stfu, idiot. you don't know dick about dick.

desmond has electric juice in him from turning the fail safe key that will allow him to kill the MIB w/ the magic knife.

obvious ending is obvious

invisiblerobots
03-31-2010, 07:14 AM
http://www.brandimills.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/batmanuel-2.jpg
found this gem tonight.

Damn, I need to go back and watch me some The Tick.

ivankay
03-31-2010, 08:00 AM
i would like to nominate Sun's unbuttoning as one of the hottest things in Lost.

A-Ron
03-31-2010, 08:12 AM
"It's like I'm in a goddamn Godzilla movie"

gazercmh
03-31-2010, 08:21 AM
Don't talk about bacon.

captncrzy
03-31-2010, 08:45 AM
i would like to nominate Sun's unbuttoning as one of the hottest things in Lost.

I thought she looked like a kid with downs syndrome trying to seduce a pizza hut delivery man.

ivankay
03-31-2010, 09:18 AM
Are they hiring at Pizza Hut?

thestripe
03-31-2010, 09:38 AM
I'm with ya, Mike. Sun is hot.

GrossMagic
03-31-2010, 09:40 AM
There was definitely a boob double going on in those shots.

i812many
03-31-2010, 09:45 AM
I like how Jack did the whole Jacob/MIB thing when he reached out his hand to Sun. Setting up the future perhaps?

motionnn77
03-31-2010, 11:06 AM
I haven't seen it yet. My man is addicted to watching Season 2 of Breaking Bad.

Somewhat Damaged
03-31-2010, 11:08 AM
Wow, thanks for filling us in!

chairmenmeow47
03-31-2010, 11:12 AM
sun was hot and the bacon line was excellent. i am also loving the return of keamy and meekyle (i am not even trying to spell that right).

i need to re-watch, i was drunk last night so i'm not going to speculate on anything and sound like an idiot.

thestripe
03-31-2010, 11:44 AM
Someone post the vozz.

J~$$$$
03-31-2010, 12:08 PM
Darkufo has not posted it yet.

tessalasset
03-31-2010, 12:45 PM
haha ivy it's mikhail. jennie didn't recognize him at first when i screamed "ITS PATCHY!" but after jin shot his eye out she remembered. that was pretty awesome and i love how he ends up dead with 1 eye in either lifetime.




I like how Jack did the whole Jacob/MIB thing when he reached out his hand to Sun. Setting up the future perhaps?

we were talking about this too. it seemed very set up for foreshadowing in that scene. the whole time i was talking to jennie about how MIB and jacob have to touch the people, and MIB specifically has to ask to help them, and then jack goes and does the same damn thing. something was up there.

tessalasset
03-31-2010, 12:48 PM
Go vote for Lost against the Simpsons to win Best TV Show on Hulu: http://www.hulu.com/spotlight/bestinshow/4/3

tessalasset
03-31-2010, 12:51 PM
http://www.sl-lost.com/2010/03/25/lost-slapdown-part-8/

atom heart
03-31-2010, 12:52 PM
Lost is never going to win against the Simpsons.

I'm seriously concerned for Penny and Little Charlie if Charles Widmore managed to get Des out of the hospital and on his mystery sub.

At that slapdown-- reminds me of the Hater recap with the smoke monster thing.

Sexecutioner
03-31-2010, 01:11 PM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/843909-1/Complaint.png

haha, this is awesome. that shit should not be allowed on a show like lost.

invisiblerobots
03-31-2010, 01:52 PM
Voz:


I'll admit it... I went into this week of LOST with fairly low expectations. Sun and Jin episodes aren't traditionally known for being action packed, and last week's Ab Aeterno was a pretty tough act to follow. Once more, it's good to be surprised. The Package threw a bunch of HUGE answers at us all at once, in both the ALT and regular storylines. I'll even point them out throughout my recap, to help all the struggling "We didn't get any real answers!" people still out there. Things I Noticed:


The 'V' Countdown Timer Was a 62-Minute Suckfest

Nothing like jamming the next ABC show down my throat while I'm trying to savor the final season of my favorite one. The ads involving that short-haired chick talking about LOST's ending and 'survival of the fittest' was an even bigger turnoff. I'll forgive ABC this week, and this week only. Pulling that shit again next Tuesday would be sacrilegious.



Sayid Didn't Keep Much of an Eye on the Camp

The smoke monster may seem all powerful, but there's one thing he hasn't had to do in the last few centuries: lead anyone. It's all well and good to be ripping trees out by the roots and judging people when the mood strikes, but getting human beings to do what you want while giving them the choice to do something else isn't as easy as just promising puppy dogs and ice cream. "You'll get answers" can only take you so far, and this is why people keep slipping through Flocke's fingers. It's also why he doesn't notice a whole team of Widmore's people surrounding his camp with night vision goggles, even though he has Sayid on his team.


Claire's unhappiness at the current situation was seen 10 miles back when the temple came up Aaronless. Plane or no plane, the dark man has a tenuous hold over her at best. Still, Claire has something Sayid does not: feelings and emotions. Within her version of the sickness we've seen anger, sadness, longing... even suspicion that she'd be left behind. Sayid on the other hand has been sick for much less time, yet all he feels is empty inside (a description which actually seemed to surprise the MIB). His vapid, melancholy stare creeped out my TV, and probably the whole camp. Flocke should've been lining him up some asses to kick or some cute girls to hit on, not handing him a tissue and telling him to man up.

It's important to point out Sayid's motivations for joining the MIB: he wanted to see Nadia again. This was back when he had feelings, however. Without such emotions, Sayid's motivations for continuing on will rapidly disintegrate... and along with that, his loyalty as well. The smoke monster is too busy to see this right now, but as six-year veterans of LOST we all know what happens when Sayid gets restless.



BIG Answer #1: The MIB Needs All of the Candidates Together In Order to Leave The Island

Flat out, we learn the ultimate purpose of Flocke's army: the man in black needs to collect all six candidates before he can leave the island. If he's really going to fly off into the sunset the dark man obviously need Lapidus too, but I'm of the opinion the Ajira plane probably means squat in the grand scheme of things. I don't know about you guys, but I for one do NOT want to see a heroic last-second takeoff as that plane screams down a dirt runway... Hurley helping Frank yank back on the control wheel as Ajira's landing gear skims the jungle treetops. I can totally picture Frank wiping the sweat from his grimy brow: "Whew! That was a close one!" Yikes.

As for Jacob and his nemesis, it must be hard to live with all the rules they're required to follow. The plan to gather up all six candidates seemed a lot like Hawking's need to round up everyone from the Oceanic Six timeline, and we all know how that went. With members of the MIB's army defecting, plotting against him, and now being abducted at dart-point, I just can't see him making the full count. Especially now that Widmore's team - a group infinitely more capable than the shadow-statue people - have finally arrived.

It was surprising to see Widmore's people taking Jin - and only Jin - while leaving the rest of Flocke's army unconscious. By not slitting everyone's throat Widmore may have proved he didn't kill the Ajira folk, but by not taking Sawyer and Sayid he may also have proved he doesn't yet know who all the candidates are. Why Jin? Not sure, but Widmore's ultimate weapon, as we see in the closing scene, is going to be Desmond.



SEMI-BIG Answer #2: Sideways Sun and Jin aren't Married, But They're Still Shacking Up

We learn that in the alternate timeline, Sun and Jin are still happily (although secretly) together. No wedding vows means no binding agreement for Jin to do Mr. Paik's dirty work, which means we're looking at a happier, more golden version of Jin. If you don't believe me, just look at the way he glows later on when he wakes up next to Sun. I thought they were going to draw a CGI a halo over his head in that scene. Compare it later on to the post-mirror glimpse of Jin we get in the bathroom, standing there covered in gloom and shadow.

Sun's plan to escape now includes Jin instead of excluding him. She hasn't learned English in an attempt to escape to America, and probably hasn't cheated on him either. The two of them are very much in love, and Jin seems a lot softer and easier on Sun. The only thing he's upset about is losing the $25k, but even those thoughts quickly disappear as Sun mesmerizes him with her exceptional cleavage.



Man, That Razor Grass Is No Joke

Back on the island however, Sun is an angry gardener. After getting seven lines in eight episodes, maybe she read the script and found out she goes back to speaking Korean. Perhaps she learned that her own centric-episode doesn't even include the long-awaited Sun/Jin reunion. Either way, her plants and tomatoes pay the price.

Here the dark man approaches her, and this time he thinks he's got a sure thing. Offering Sun the opportunity to see her husband is an easy play, which is why he's so taken off guard when she refuses to accept his hand. Flocke can't force Sun to join him here, and he can't physically take her along. Not really having a plan B, he chases her desperately through the tall grass, just like he chased after the young blonde boy a few episodes back. The top-down camera work also reminded me of the polar bear running after Michael and Walt in season one. Very cool.

With each passing episode, the dark man continues to lose control. He's unused to people not doing what he wants. In the past he's killed whenever he needed to, but things are now different. Here, he's forced to try and finesse certain people into doing what he wants without being able to bash them against the nearest tree when they refuse. This is taxing on him - it's wearing him down, and his frustration is growing. The dark man is unable to disguise his impatience with "Something wrong, Claire?" and answering to an increasingly sarcastic Sawyer is taking its toll. His camp is rapidly coming apart, just as John Locke's own perfect little community began unraveling when he lead half the cast to New Otherton.

Tree branches like the one Sun hits her head on should start getting listed in the credits. As she becomes the umpteenth person to slip into unconsciousness this episode, we cut to:



Wow, Look at That! I Just Happened To 'Wake Up' in the Alternate Timeline!

Okay, hang on a second. Before we talk about what happens here, we have to examine the circumstances leading up to this flash-sideways. On-island Sun is knocked out cold, and off-island Sun is just waking up. We've seen this happen time and time again, most noticeably when Jack gets put under for his on-island appendectomy and immediately wakes up in the Oceanic Six timeline.

How many times does this have to happen before it becomes more than just a convenient plot device? Unconsciousness has always been associated with enlightenment. It's always worked as a transition between scenes and storylines... but what if it also acts as a transition between worlds? Remember sleeping Claire waking up in her flashback car crash during Par Avion? Remember Desmond hitting his head on the freighter and waking up in one of his flashes? I could list dozens and dozens of examples here, but there's really no need. The link between unconsciousness and making these journeys is as plain as the big frosty glass of Orange Julius they made Desmond drink on the sub-ride over.


"See you on the other side..." - Ben's words, right before Jack puts him under. Think he's just being cute here? Do you really think, when Sun looks into the mirror this episode, that she's not actually looking into the other side? That she really doesn't start to remember her past self? Do you think it's coincidence that Keamy's knock conveniently and pointedly pulls her back into the 'real' world, exactly the way Juliet got pulled out of her own little mirror staredown by the island burning her cookies?

I said it a few weeks ago, and Sawyer said it again last night: "Of course not. Because that would be ridiculous."

Watch Keamy's reaction as he introduces himself to Sun: he cocks his head and squints a little bit, almost as if to say "Don'tcha remember me?" There's actually a lot off about Keamy this episode - much more than usual. As a criminal we can all agree he's creepy awesome... but as someone who potentially knows things, he's got some pretty odd knowledge. Much more of this gets revealed later on, during his encounter with Jin in the walk-in fridge.

"She hits her head and forgets English? Are we supposed to buy that?" No Miles, we're not. I mean, yeah, some people may be buying it... but not me. And if you're reading this, hopefully not you either, because the mental transition from island to LAX back to island again hasn't caused Sun some obscure medical condition where she can no longer speak English, no matter how deep Jack digs into his patient history. No, what we're seeing here is the first concrete evidence of the next major reveal:



BIG Answer #3: The ALT Timeline is Actually Bleeding Through To the Island's Current Events

We're seeing LAX_Sun's non-English speaking skills carrying over to island_Sun, and at this point there shouldn't be much of a debate about that. The more important question to ask is this: how long has stuff like this been going on? Is Sun losing English the same thing as season one Claire losing her memories? As post-Swan Locke losing his ability to speak? As Desmond losing his clothes? Is this what's been happening to characters we've seen reset or rebooted, and if so, when did it start?

So many questions get potential answers here, it's actually kind of frightening. Were Desmond's "flashes" really just him experiencing the ALT timeline, but we were thrown off by this because he was visiting a past version of it? And while we're at it, exactly how many different timelines exist? Just because our LAX characters seem to have blasted themselves into the "Jughead" universe, it would be ignorant to assume there's only one. Was the Oceanic Six season nothing more than another alternate timeline, one in which Flight 815 really did hit the Indian ocean? Did Ben/Jacob really cure Juliet's sister's cancer, or was Mikhail pointing the Flame's monitor at a different timeline, in a different universe, on a different playground where that cancer didn't exist?

If Sun's memories starts crossing over from the ALT universe, where will they stop? Will all of our on-island characters begin 'remembering' their LAX lives? If so, it makes sense that everyone on the island would end up enlightened by their own off-island experiences. This might be what drives them to make the right decisions - ultimately breaking the seemingly endless cycle of repeating their own mistakes, and thus being the cause of their own suffering.

And if the two timelines merge, will it go both ways? Will the LAX characters gain sudden knowledge of their on-island experiences, and use them to move on with their lives? Is this where everyone's consciousness ends up when they die? Is this how on-island Juliet and on-island Sawyer can eventually go out for off-island coffee?

These are all tremendous questions. The floodgates have been opened here, starting with Sun smashing her head into that tree branch. The possibilities are endless. The stories can wind in any virtually direction. The merging of character consciousness allows for both timelines to remain relevant, and for both timelines to mean something. It seems to be the answer as to where everything is going, and yet at the same time it also seems to be something that's always been there.


Mikhail Still Rocks

Ah, it was good to see Mikhail again! Three whole seasons! While he didn't play a huge role, he still got to flash his trademark knowing smirk. He also got to scrap with Jin again, which he seems eternally destined to do. No matter how many different timelines there may be, it's good to see that some things never change. Jin's always destined to get the best of Mikhail, and the Russian is always fated to lose an eye.




Zoe Still Sucks

Remember how Nikki rubbed you the wrong way (there's a joke in there somewhere) back in S3? Zoe's done the same thing, and there's little chance of recovering from it. No matter what she does from this point forward, it'll be hard for her to make up ground. In a way, I feel somewhat bad for her. In other ways, I just want her off the screen so more important characters can speak.


Continuing our walk down memory lane this week is a nostalgic visit to Room 23. Speakers, wires, creepy Ring-like video... the room is revealed to be "nothing more" than one of Dharma's head games. Pockets of electromagnetism become suddenly important again, lending a more scientific approach to Charles Widmore's group. Here's a guy who shows up with expensive equipment and geophysicists instead of vials of ash and magic daggers. I thought it a little unlikely Widmore's sub brought enough of those cute little sonic fence posts to encircle the entire Hydra station, but if I can suspend disbelief far enough to include time travel I can certainly overlook crap like this.



Introducing Keamy's Gang of Misfit Bad Guys

Martin Keamy once again rocked. Still, there was an odd coincidence involving him and his crew of ruffians: they seemed to include all of LOST's biggest, baddest bad guys. Keamy and Omar are easy enough to put together, but they happen to be linked up with Mikhail too? All of them working for Paik? And when Keamy mentions another guy named "Danny", could he be referring to Danny Pickett - one of the all-time biggest pricks on the show? It felt like we were watching the LOST goon reunion, here. I half expected Phil to come stumbling out of the bathroom, zipping up his pants.

Let's go to the walk-in fridge, where Omar bangs Jin's head on the way in. "C'mon Omar, you gotta be more careful than that..." For a guy about to 'pop' someone, didn't Keamy seem overly concerned about what happened here? Was he just looking to keep things neat and tidy, or was Keamy concerned that Jin might go unconscious on them? Remember, unconsciousness = enlightenment. As far as I'm concerned, Keamy seems to somehow know this. He puts a wet cloth to Jin's head too, not out of caring or kindness but to wake him up. Before even talking to Jin, Keamy prefaces his speech by making sure he can't comprehend him, asking: "You don't understand what I'm sayin' to you right now? Nothing?"

This is, of course, when Keamy mentions THE ISLAND. Yeah, that's right - the island. There's no possible way you can convince me that Keamy didn't say "Just in case you figure out what's about to happen TO THE ISLAND..." here. Closed captioning can kiss my ass, that's what the man said. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, and the writers tossed it in as a joke to get us talking about it. Or maybe it means everything, and Jin - still in a daze from hitting his skull against a metal doorframe - heard Keamy correctly. Either way, we know something is going to happen to the island, back in the regular timeline anyway. Something that sinks it to the bottom of the ocean... probably something we'll see at the end of the show.

Keamy also makes reference to the heart, a reference that parallels his own connection to the heart-monitor bomb he hooked himself up to. His last line seems to foreshadow doom on the Sun/Jin relationship: "Some people just aren't meant to be together". I'm holding out for a happy ending, though. Jack's closing tomato reference represents Sun and Jin's relationship defying the odds. And besides, when Jacob shows up at your wedding? That just has to be good luck.



Razorblades, Garlic, Duct Tape...

Jin's limited view of the Sayid/Keamy encounter comes from inside the walk-in. I thought it fitting and cool that Sayid refused to cut Jin free, but still provided him with a means to do so. This repeats the "Moth" motif we've seen so often, allowing a character to experience personal struggle along the way to freedom or enlightenment. I thought of Locke giving Boone the knife during Hearts and Minds, and of Richard being given the nail needed to chip away at his own bonds last episode.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I asked myself a question: was Sayid fully himself? The carefree way he said "Good luck" (and with an almost evil smirk) belied a character who seemed so committed to caring for his niece and nephew a few episodes ago. It made me wonder if on-island Sayid's 'emptiness' was bleeding through to his LAX life. We already started to see this the moment he shot Keamy, and now we continue to see it in the following scene. Accepting this as fact, the merging of consciousness seems to go in both directions, and this is another huge piece of the puzzle.



BIG Answer #4: Ji-Yeon Does Exist In The Sideways Reality

In discussing the theory that the ALT reality will make up the show's final conclusion, I've always had one huge problem: Ji-Yeon. How could they write a suitable ending for Sun and Jin that didn't involve their daughter? They couldn't just forget all about her, and they couldn't strand her in the O6 timeline. Pretending she never existed was always a possibility, but that just seemed cheap and lame.

Here, bleeding all over Keamy's immaculate kitchen, Sun reveals that she's pregnant. For me, this one small moment changes everything. It lends tremendous evidence in favor of the LAX universe turning out to be the final timeline, because now this story has an ending. Ji-Yeon's place is established in both worlds, providing a satisfying conclusion to that whole story arc.

If you believe Jin's infertility was healed by the island, this could be even more evidence of bleeding through. LAX_Jin has never been to the island, yet somehow he's able to father a child. This could be chalked up as one of the things that are simply 'different' in the sideways timeline, or you could take it to mean there was island influence. Both theories work.



BIG Answer #5: The Smoke Monster Can't Cross Water Directly

For a while now, we've known about smokey's aversion to ash. He's not thrilled about sonic fences, and now we find out he can't cross water. This is the polar opposite of Jacob, whose healing essence seemed to be a very part of the spring water welling up inside the temple. Jacob also showed us he wasn't afraid to get wet when he stopped to give Richard a serious bath.

Being unable to cross the ocean, the island makes the perfect jail for the man in black. This could easily be why he's been imprisoned here, of all places. The fact that he can't cross bodies of water (without a boat, anyway) also gives us an answer to another long-standing question, although indirectly:



BIG Answer #6: Christian Shephard Couldn't Have Always Appeared As The Man In Black

The Christian we saw in the cabin? Yes. The Christian we saw on the freighter, talking to Michael? No way. Because of the dark man's aversion to water, this particular incarnation of Jack's father had to have been someone (or something) else.

But wait, there's more. Think about the Christian Shephard we saw in the Oceanic Six timeline, where Jack saw him at the hospital. This is when the smoke detector went off, prompting everyone (me included) to think we were looking at the smoke monster. Could this have been the man in black taking Christian's form? Not if we believe what the MIB tells us this episode. This leaves us with three possible scenarios:

a) The dark man takes a boat to Los Angeles, fucks with Jack's head, then takes a boat back to the island.

b) Jack Shephard never left the island at all, and the Oceanic timeline is pure bullshit.

c) Despite the smoke detector clue, Christian wasn't the smoke monster here.


You guys make the call, I think you already know my thoughts on this one.



No No No, You're Not Expendable! But on the Other Hand, if Something Were To "Happen" To Kate...

It's interesting how Flocke reaches out to touch Claire, just as she's questioning his motives. Maybe his "I need you" speech isn't enough - he needs to physically touch her in order to keep Claire on his team right now. It's a good thing Richard, Ben, Kate, and now Sun have all refused the dark man's hand when it was offered to them.

We pointedly learn here that Kate's name is not on the candidate wall, and I predict this information will hurt Flocke later on. Because of this he doesn't see her as a threat, but only as a tool needed to recruit his other three candidates. Once the dark man has Jack, Hurley, and Sun in his pocket, "whatever happens, happens". So in order to maintain her loyalty, he lets Claire envision shoving Kate out Ajira's emergency door once Lapidus flips off the seatbelt sign.

QUICK NOTE: Despite his self-proclaimed righteousness, these are not the actions of a "good" guy. Team Jacob is looking whiter and whiter each day.



Richard's Plan... Not Exactly A Bulletproof Masterpiece

Blowing up Ajira? Hurley drags Richard back from the brink of a soulless, evil existence, and this is the best he comes up with? It's no wonder Sun angrily balks at the idea. Now removed from both her daughter and her husband, Sun's understandably not on board with the whole destroy-the-plane agenda. Can't say I blame her either. Hopefully Richard comes up with something better than that... something more befitting of "He who would save us all".



BIG Answer #7: Widmore is Batting For Team Jacob

The Charles Widmore scenes told us a hell of a lot this episode. We learned that Widmore is indeed looking to stop the man in black, if not defeat him altogether. He's on some sort of timetable, and although seizing Jin seemed to be part of his overall plan, it was a part he wasn't yet ready for. He made the best of it though, and did a good job deflecting Jin's angry questions by leading off with photos of Ji-Yeon. Cool scene.

Widmore's confrontation with the man in black was eerie and cool. As a native of the island, Charles knows the MIB from "myth, ghost stories, and jungle noises in the night". Off-island however, it seems he's gained a more intimate knowledge of things. Specifically and perhaps most importantly, Widmore knows what will happen if they fail to stop the smoke monster from leaving the island.

Here's where alternative universes, parallel timelines, and even a little bit of science come into play. Widmore explains to Jin that unless they stop the MIB's army, "everyone we know and love would simply cease to be." I took this in the most basic and direct of ways; if the dark man were to succeed, a new universe would spawn in which everyone and everything would no longer be. It's impossible to say how or why this would happen, but judging from the way Widmore presents the issue it's not hard to believe him. He goes on to tell Jin that he came to "make sure that doesn't happen", and his primary weapon with which to fight the man in black? Desmond.



BIG Answer #8: The Island Isn't Finished With Desmond Yet - Not by a Longshot

Desmond is more than just a favorite character - he's perhaps the one person who's been thrust through LOST's loop fully and completely. Faraday's assertion that Desmond is uniquely and miraculously special seems to be finally coming to fruition: Widmore's gone to great lengths to bring him back to the island again. Whatever powers Desmond obtained when he turned the failsafe key may be the same powers needed to stop the MIB from leaving the island. How's that going to happen? Great question.

The Package was filled with all good stuff - a lot more than I thought we'd get. It gave us a glimpse into the future of LOST, and it handed us answers to some very big questions. In the end it even delivered a savior: Desmond Hume, a character responsible for some of the highest-rated episodes in all of LOST. As has been theorized by many people for many years, it's only fitting that he be the possible key to the end of the show.

captncrzy
03-31-2010, 02:41 PM
Wow, Look at That! I Just Happened To 'Wake Up' in the Alternate Timeline!

Okay, hang on a second. Before we talk about what happens here, we have to examine the circumstances leading up to this flash-sideways. On-island Sun is knocked out cold, and off-island Sun is just waking up. We've seen this happen time and time again, most noticeably when Jack gets put under for his on-island appendectomy and immediately wakes up in the Oceanic Six timeline.

How many times does this have to happen before it becomes more than just a convenient plot device? Unconsciousness has always been associated with enlightenment. It's always worked as a transition between scenes and storylines... but what if it also acts as a transition between worlds? Remember sleeping Claire waking up in her flashback car crash during Par Avion? Remember Desmond hitting his head on the freighter and waking up in one of his flashes? I could list dozens and dozens of examples here, but there's really no need. The link between unconsciousness and making these journeys is as plain as the big frosty glass of Orange Julius they made Desmond drink on the sub-ride over.


"See you on the other side..." - Ben's words, right before Jack puts him under. Think he's just being cute here? Do you really think, when Sun looks into the mirror this episode, that she's not actually looking into the other side? That she really doesn't start to remember her past self? Do you think it's coincidence that Keamy's knock conveniently and pointedly pulls her back into the 'real' world, exactly the way Juliet got pulled out of her own little mirror staredown by the island burning her cookies?

I said it a few weeks ago, and Sawyer said it again last night: "Of course not. Because that would be ridiculous."

Watch Keamy's reaction as he introduces himself to Sun: he cocks his head and squints a little bit, almost as if to say "Don'tcha remember me?" There's actually a lot off about Keamy this episode - much more than usual. As a criminal we can all agree he's creepy awesome... but as someone who potentially knows things, he's got some pretty odd knowledge. Much more of this gets revealed later on, during his encounter with Jin in the walk-in fridge.

"She hits her head and forgets English? Are we supposed to buy that?" No Miles, we're not. I mean, yeah, some people may be buying it... but not me. And if you're reading this, hopefully not you either, because the mental transition from island to LAX back to island again hasn't caused Sun some obscure medical condition where she can no longer speak English, no matter how deep Jack digs into his patient history. No, what we're seeing here is the first concrete evidence of the next major reveal:



BIG Answer #3: The ALT Timeline is Actually Bleeding Through To the Island's Current Events

We're seeing LAX_Sun's non-English speaking skills carrying over to island_Sun, and at this point there shouldn't be much of a debate about that. The more important question to ask is this: how long has stuff like this been going on? Is Sun losing English the same thing as season one Claire losing her memories? As post-Swan Locke losing his ability to speak? As Desmond losing his clothes? Is this what's been happening to characters we've seen reset or rebooted, and if so, when did it start?

So many questions get potential answers here, it's actually kind of frightening. Were Desmond's "flashes" really just him experiencing the ALT timeline, but we were thrown off by this because he was visiting a past version of it? And while we're at it, exactly how many different timelines exist? Just because our LAX characters seem to have blasted themselves into the "Jughead" universe, it would be ignorant to assume there's only one. Was the Oceanic Six season nothing more than another alternate timeline, one in which Flight 815 really did hit the Indian ocean? Did Ben/Jacob really cure Juliet's sister's cancer, or was Mikhail pointing the Flame's monitor at a different timeline, in a different universe, on a different playground where that cancer didn't exist?

If Sun's memories starts crossing over from the ALT universe, where will they stop? Will all of our on-island characters begin 'remembering' their LAX lives? If so, it makes sense that everyone on the island would end up enlightened by their own off-island experiences. This might be what drives them to make the right decisions - ultimately breaking the seemingly endless cycle of repeating their own mistakes, and thus being the cause of their own suffering.

And if the two timelines merge, will it go both ways? Will the LAX characters gain sudden knowledge of their on-island experiences, and use them to move on with their lives? Is this where everyone's consciousness ends up when they die? Is this how on-island Juliet and on-island Sawyer can eventually go out for off-island coffee?




...

Let's go to the walk-in fridge, where Omar bangs Jin's head on the way in. "C'mon Omar, you gotta be more careful than that..." For a guy about to 'pop' someone, didn't Keamy seem overly concerned about what happened here? Was he just looking to keep things neat and tidy, or was Keamy concerned that Jin might go unconscious on them? Remember, unconsciousness = enlightenment. As far as I'm concerned, Keamy seems to somehow know this. He puts a wet cloth to Jin's head too, not out of caring or kindness but to wake him up. Before even talking to Jin, Keamy prefaces his speech by making sure he can't comprehend him, asking: "You don't understand what I'm sayin' to you right now? Nothing?"

This is, of course, when Keamy mentions THE ISLAND. Yeah, that's right - the island. There's no possible way you can convince me that Keamy didn't say "Just in case you figure out what's about to happen TO THE ISLAND..." here. Closed captioning can kiss my ass, that's what the man said. Maybe it doesn't mean anything, and the writers tossed it in as a joke to get us talking about it. Or maybe it means everything, and Jin - still in a daze from hitting his skull against a metal doorframe - heard Keamy correctly. Either way, we know something is going to happen to the island, back in the regular timeline anyway. Something that sinks it to the bottom of the ocean... probably something we'll see at the end of the show.




...

I'd be lying if I didn't say I asked myself a question: was Sayid fully himself? The carefree way he said "Good luck" (and with an almost evil smirk) belied a character who seemed so committed to caring for his niece and nephew a few episodes ago. It made me wonder if on-island Sayid's 'emptiness' was bleeding through to his LAX life. We already started to see this the moment he shot Keamy, and now we continue to see it in the following scene. Accepting this as fact, the merging of consciousness seems to go in both directions, and this is another huge piece of the puzzle.



...
If you believe Jin's infertility was healed by the island, this could be even more evidence of bleeding through. LAX_Jin has never been to the island, yet somehow he's able to father a child. This could be chalked up as one of the things that are simply 'different' in the sideways timeline, or you could take it to mean there was island influence. Both theories work.



...

BIG Answer #6: Christian Shephard Couldn't Have Always Appeared As The Man In Black

The Christian we saw in the cabin? Yes. The Christian we saw on the freighter, talking to Michael? No way. Because of the dark man's aversion to water, this particular incarnation of Jack's father had to have been someone (or something) else.

But wait, there's more. Think about the Christian Shephard we saw in the Oceanic Six timeline, where Jack saw him at the hospital. This is when the smoke detector went off, prompting everyone (me included) to think we were looking at the smoke monster. Could this have been the man in black taking Christian's form? Not if we believe what the MIB tells us this episode. This leaves us with three possible scenarios:

a) The dark man takes a boat to Los Angeles, fucks with Jack's head, then takes a boat back to the island.

b) Jack Shephard never left the island at all, and the Oceanic timeline is pure bullshit.

c) Despite the smoke detector clue, Christian wasn't the smoke monster here.

...

Here's where alternative universes, parallel timelines, and even a little bit of science come into play. Widmore explains to Jin that unless they stop the MIB's army, "everyone we know and love would simply cease to be." I took this in the most basic and direct of ways; if the dark man were to succeed, a new universe would spawn in which everyone and everything would no longer be. It's impossible to say how or why this would happen, but judging from the way Widmore presents the issue it's not hard to believe him. He goes on to tell Jin that he came to "make sure that doesn't happen", and his primary weapon with which to fight the man in black? Desmond.



Holy shit. I had forgotten about the Desmond that was flipping back and forth between consciousnesses. I always thought he was jumping around in time. He wasn't. He was jumping around in different universes.

Holy shit.

Astrid
03-31-2010, 03:56 PM
does anyone know what episode he is referring to where jack sees his father at the hospital? i cannot remember this at all and would like to watch it for myself.


also doesnt MIB need all the candidates so that he can kill them? i thought we already knew that from last weeks episode.

captncrzy
03-31-2010, 04:59 PM
I think the episode he is referring to is when they've come back from the island and Jack is working in his own medical practice; he's alone in the office at night and hears the fire alarm go off; he's on a ladder changing the batteries when he hears a noise and goes into the lobby, where his father is sitting.

SDsoldier7
03-31-2010, 08:59 PM
WE SHOULD DO A LOST CHAT TOMORROW AFTER LOST!!!!!!!!!!!! is there a way to make a tiny chat coachella lost link or something? i'll try and figure it out tonight. i was so tired last night. my meds make me sleepy.


i totally will. i always go watch it at someone else's place tho. tomorrow i'll be at gabe and jen's, so i wont be in immediately afterward. but i'll make it in eventually and hopefully you'll still be there.

Yes. Please. I would have liked to chat last night, but did not watch the episode until this morning. We definately need a seperate room though.


Widmore's about to reveal the "who" in the secret compartment. I'm saying it's either Walt or Jacob, just to go against the grain of the Desmond votes, although I'm dying for a Desmond return.

Im leaning towards Walt, simply because he is a very mysterious character that needs to get some serious questions answered about him. Dude is a freak.


Sun is an emo cunt. I also love Claire, that crazy ass bitch.

Edit:
Also that part with Sun and Jack, wow, trust!

kitt kat
03-31-2010, 10:51 PM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/843909-1/Complaint.png

Lovely.

J~$$$$
04-01-2010, 07:55 AM
So the vozz recap confused the shit out of me. They (the candidates) are all basically like little islands unstuck in space and time effecting other universes and timeliness?

thestripe
04-01-2010, 10:09 AM
Holy shit. I had forgotten about the Desmond that was flipping back and forth between consciousnesses. I always thought he was jumping around in time. He wasn't. He was jumping around in different universes.

Holy shit.

Whoa.




But that's confusing as hell.

atom heart
04-01-2010, 11:19 AM
Not on the rug, man...
Jg5OxQlj5zY

ragingdave
04-01-2010, 11:24 AM
Has anyone posted over at the official ABC Lost Boards?
It's freaking painful.
I've already been kicked off it twice.

captncrzy
04-01-2010, 12:37 PM
Nah, those nerds are way too much for me. I stay pretty loyal to reading the Dark UFO stuff; they have the best spoilers.

tessalasset
04-02-2010, 12:27 AM
cute.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/blogs/popcornbiz/Want-Lost-Secrets-Dont-Ask-Michael-Emersons-Wife-89616582.html