PDA

View Full Version : LOST!



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 [17] 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

ivankay
02-09-2010, 03:12 PM
Then what is the different Flight 815 that flies over a sunken island? How did the island sink if not the bomb?
The timeline is introduced to us after the bomb goes off.

OnlyNonStranger
02-09-2010, 03:14 PM
So they're not showing a new episode until after they re-air the second part of last weeks tonight. That's fucking lame, I just finished rewatching last weeks!

Blinken
02-09-2010, 03:27 PM
Then what is the different Flight 815 that flies over a sunken island? How did the island sink if not the bomb?
The timeline is introduced to us after the bomb goes off.

Flight 815 is still in an alt timeline just not caused by the explosion. The 1977 losties did too much to set up the island timeline which means they had already existed in 77 by the time the first crash took place. Without them in 77 the evacuation that saved baby Miles and Charlote would not have happened. Even Faraday completed his circle by still warning Charlotte. He came back only to set off the bomb which means that he had to have done the exact same thing before. The change in the timelines has yet to happen I think.

gazercmh
02-09-2010, 05:24 PM
Forgive me if this has been discussed -- or is obvious -- but what was with the scene where the island was underwater in the opening last week?

ShyGuy75
02-09-2010, 05:29 PM
30 minutes in and this has been the worst episode in years.

hopefully they don't waste one in the final season.

J~$$$$
02-09-2010, 05:42 PM
The water looks like a dirty deep fryer.

When Hurley is on the phone in the taxi line it sounds like he says Naomi's name.

chairmenmeow47
02-09-2010, 07:06 PM
claire is WAY more interesting dead.

and "he's an iraqi torturer who shoots kids, of course he deserves a second go-round"

OnlyNonStranger
02-09-2010, 07:18 PM
I just now made the connection for Sayid being "infected." Isn't that sort of along the lines of what Russeo(sp?) said about her crew whenever they crashed on the island? Claire kind of has the crazy french chick thing going on right now, except you know, smoking hot.

vogina
02-09-2010, 07:26 PM
worst show ever

digitaldragon03
02-09-2010, 09:01 PM
This episode sucked.

Down Rodeo
02-09-2010, 09:04 PM
Lackluster episode that ended nicely. Oh, and it was hilarious seeing the guy from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia get shot at the end.

GrossMagic
02-09-2010, 09:09 PM
Smokie is the infection, so yes it can take multiple forms.

Gizbro..
02-09-2010, 09:30 PM
Mac got Smoked..

Astrid
02-09-2010, 09:47 PM
i agree that this episode was pretty lamesauce. NO LOCKE OR RICHARD???

also so does this imply claire died? too much kate time. eh.

OnlyNonStranger
02-09-2010, 09:48 PM
^I also hate Kate.

Sexecutioner
02-09-2010, 09:53 PM
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/1/c/21c5dfa3767d62a1b8d2a09e4213ff97.jpg

GeezrRckr
02-09-2010, 10:06 PM
man, that was pretty lame.

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 12:48 AM
I don't think it was bad, but I do think next week is going to be better. (HOLY SHIT DOES SAWYER DIE?!?!?!)

It was nice to see some finality between Sawyer and Kate, and God knows she deserved to be brushed off like that. I really liked Josh Holloway's scenes in this episode. I don't think we've ever seen him cry and be as vulnerable as he was tonight. I'm glad they're really showing him in mourning and not just starting fresh with this new storyline. I hope he stays mopey for a while. Although the writers do say that the love triangle is going to come back full swing this season, so fuck. How awkward was that when Jack tried to kiss her in the temple tho?

I thought it was badass when Jack dropped the pill. Did not even see that coming, and obviously neither did Yoko Ono. That was quite a bluff. I like that they immediately got to the point with Sayid, cause two years ago it probably would have taken three or four episodes for that information to come out. Now I guess we just wait and see if he really is infected or not. What a horrible way to find out tho. Interesting to see him yet again on the receiving end of torture.

I loved Kate and Claire's scenes and thought they were the best part of the episode. Every time it flashed over to the island I kept wanting to go back to LA. BRENTWOOD REPRESENT! Having grown up in Brentwood, that was the first time the locations didn't gel for me. It just looked like Hawaii. I was a little skeptical that Claire got back in the car with Kate after being held at gunpoint and thrown out of the car just an hour before. I definitely gasped when I saw Ethan, but I guess in that time line, he just never even went to the island, huh? So he was still a good guy. And it was so convincing to see him play good. Great actor.

Overall I didn't think it was a bad episode, but it did move pretty fast. It was awesome seeing Mac, but it sucks for him cause I just couldn't take him seriously the entire time he was on screen. Kind of bad casting I guess. And I'm confused - was he in the show previously? I just watched It's Always Sunny a couple months ago, so if he was in it years ago, I wouldn't have noticed him anyways.

Next week looks like it's going to be ridiculous.

Astrid
02-10-2010, 01:04 AM
aldo was in the episode in s3 where kate and sawyer are trying to help alex rescue her boyfriend. kate knocks him out with her gun, as he referenced in this episode.

stinkbutt
02-10-2010, 01:29 AM
I for one am glad they brought Claire back I always told everyone that as far as this show is concerned if they don't show them dead or dying they aren't dead. I always loved the stories surrounding her even if she herself was boring. I also really like the Christian, Jack, and Claire connection even though Claire and Jack are some of the most lame characters, that plot always intrigued me for some reason.

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 01:40 AM
aldo was in the episode in s3 where kate and sawyer are trying to help alex rescue her boyfriend. kate knocks him out with her gun, as he referenced in this episode.

oh snap is he the guy who was guarding them?

stinkbutt
02-10-2010, 01:45 AM
Yeah. I remember when I saw that episode saying "Holy shit it's Mac" then a couple minutes into tonight's episode I got a text "Mac is back on Lost"

kitt kat
02-10-2010, 02:03 AM
I kept expecting Danny DeVito to pop out of the woods and be like, "GOTCHA, SUCKERS"

gooftroop
02-10-2010, 02:05 AM
I used to like lost when I watched the first 2 seasons on DVD. Then I started the 3rd season on TV. I suddenly realized it made no sense and was just a waste of time. Some of my friends convinced me to start watching again when this season. I saw the first recap episode, which was only kind of excruciating, and then that 2 hour episode. It was ridiculous, so drawn out and full of filler. That one plane scene was literally 5 minutes of slow mo of them walking off the fucking plane. A setup to a new season.

I watched tonight's episode as well to give it a shot to see if it could build some interest in me. It was not good. I just don't like this show, it puts me off too much by being based in no semblance of reality but still somehow taking itself super seriously. Or maybe it's all a big joke, that would make the most sense at this point.

One man's opinion...Lost is far from the best TV has to offer.

kitt kat
02-10-2010, 02:05 AM
Oh, and Kate is a 'tard for still liking Sawyer.

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 02:16 AM
I agree Kate needs to get over it. She's not good for either of them.


Another cross-television show actor I just realized was Maryanne from True Blood. She's the pilot of the plane with the Oceanic Six right before they touch down for their press conference.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/6/6d/Snapshot20080516080911.jpg/800px-Snapshot20080516080911.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/5/5d/KarenD.jpg

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID16974/images/Maryann-true-blood-7261163-333-500.jpg

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 02:20 AM
I like this, from lostpedia:
Ethan, in the flash-sideways timeline, says that he doesn't want to stick a bunch of needles into Claire if he doesn't have to, which is exactly what he does to her in the original timeline.

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 02:21 AM
oooh i didn't notice this. continuity error? no way, on lost.

Why was Claire's ultrasound dated a month after the Original Timeline Oceanic flight crashed?

ADrunkPoet
02-10-2010, 02:24 AM
I agree Kate needs to get over it. She's not good for either of them.


Another cross-television show actor I just realized was Maryanne from True Blood. She's the pilot of the plane with the Oceanic Six right before they touch down for their press conference.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/6/6d/Snapshot20080516080911.jpg/800px-Snapshot20080516080911.jpg

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/5/5d/KarenD.jpg

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID16974/images/Maryann-true-blood-7261163-333-500.jpg

She is also in BSG.

stinkbutt
02-10-2010, 02:27 AM
I like this, from lostpedia:

that actually made me lol

also for those Big Love fans Nicki's first husband played Julliette's ex husband

thestripe
02-10-2010, 05:10 AM
You're not a zombie are you dude?

J~$$$$
02-10-2010, 06:47 AM
So Mirror Ethan is a good guy that wants to help Claire by postponing labor, and bad Ethan wants to induce labor and infect Claire.

Mirror Jack is a man of faith off the island, and science on the island. I can see this affecting both time lines. When he is man of doubt on the island he is certain off the island in sideways timeline. Its like opposite personalities afflicting the other. Evil twin. Not in balance as one. This kind of goes for the whole "sideways" or "mirror" people alive on and off the island.

I can see all the losties will have to die on the island but when the time is right.

chairmenmeow47
02-10-2010, 07:01 AM
i bet that ethan still makes it to the island one way or another, even if he wasn't there at the exact moment of 815.

typical second episode of the season, BOR-ING! kate is quite the little slut, christ. i found it both hilarious and obnoxious that everyone kept brushing off jin's questions about the ajira plane "what, you want to know about your wife who you haven't seen in 3 years, fuck off!".

also, why on earth does jack believe he has ANY idea what he's talking about with the pill nonsense. and how can he believe that sayid is still sayid? is he not a man of science anymore? i personally would have been hanging back with kate & sawyer not trusting sayid for one bit. dead is dead. that shit ain't natural and it ain't right.

i also did not understand why claire got in the car with kate. or why kate, a goddamned fugitive, chose to drive around town for a visit in a stolen fucking vehicle. first she gives up the cab to phil and then she keeps driving the stolen cab. worst fugitive ever.

i really liked that miles pointed out that hurley was the leader now. also, the best line for me was the "he's an iraqi torturer who kills kids, of course he deserves a second go-round".

i'm finally glad to see claire be interesting. also glad to learn more about the infection. i guess ben was not infected then? was christian infected? tune in next week...

captncrzy
02-10-2010, 07:19 AM
Ethan didn't have to go "back" to the island. He was born on the island to Dharma people. Juliet delivered him. I guess in the alternate timeline, he was evacuated with the other women and children rather than becoming an "other". I'm not sure if they ever addressed how Ethan became an "other".

Also, Ethan wasn't trying to infect Claire; he was trying to protect her baby from the infection.

chairmenmeow47
02-10-2010, 07:29 AM
that raises an interesting point, was claire infected before or after the explosion in othertown and before or after she gave birth to aaron? or did ethan & co. think she was infected before delivery?

J~$$$$
02-10-2010, 07:49 AM
"we'll be waiting in the food court."


Communication is a motherfucker. If I had to deal with these assholes on a regular basis, I would just go live on the beach in a hut like Rose and Bernard. We could have had this show wrapped up two seasons ago if everyone just talked this confusing shit out.


Im going with Ethan infected Claire.

chairmenmeow47
02-10-2010, 07:50 AM
i'm also constantly pointing out how annoying communication is on the island. there's a scene where juliet & locke find widmore & his partner in the forest. juliet & one of those guys starts talking about richard in latin. locke asks "are you talking about richard" and instead of giving the quick response of "yes" she says "we don't have time for this" or something that takes even longer to spout out. lost would have been over seasons ago if people just said what the fuck was on their mind instead of playing the riddler at every turn.

ivankay
02-10-2010, 08:15 AM
Clair easily going along with a gun toting Kate i was chalking up to a little bit of Stockholme Syndrome and the "connection" the Losties are feeling with each other in the "Without an Island" timeline. That connection hit Kate hard when the cab was driving slowly by Jack. The LAX cops were practically incompetent by letting them get away. This is the helicopter car chase capital of the world and no way would Kate be able to cruise along for afternoon driving with Clair. For a little plausibility, Kate should have at least stolen another car.

GeezrRckr
02-10-2010, 08:27 AM
LA. BRENTWOOD REPRESENT! Having grown up in Brentwood, that was the first time the locations didn't gel for me.

me too. pali high?

faxman75
02-10-2010, 08:39 AM
I couldn't stand the Kate/James emo moments. I was laughing my ass off as Kate strolled around town seemingly in no hurry at all or not on any kind of run from the law, the writing for the scenes between Clair and Kate was awkward and much of that portion of the show was ridiculous. When Clair went into labor on the door step I half expected Jack to be driving down the street to help sis out with the dlivering of Erin.

I wasn't bored with the episode but it certainly wasn't very strong.

the whole scene with Kate getting help from the mechanic all went a little too smooth as well. I'm surprised she didn't blow the guy for a repaint and some new plates, that would have been smarter than heading over to become Clair's best friend just in time for pregnancy.

chairmenmeow47
02-10-2010, 08:41 AM
kate helped deliver AARON, the BOY, not jack. so it is completely fitting that she was with claire in the hospital. though i was wrong about the baby coming early in my prediction :(

but yes, the whole thing was rather absurd. worst fugitive ever!

Astrid
02-10-2010, 08:57 AM
oh snap is he the guy who was guarding them?

no he was guarding karl, alex's boyfriend.

chairmenmeow47
02-10-2010, 08:57 AM
my girlfriend caught that too. she said "hey, that's the guy that fell for the wookie prisoner gag"

Somewhat Damaged
02-10-2010, 10:24 AM
"No, I am not a zombie," should be the title of a movie.

Monklish
02-10-2010, 10:38 AM
My hunch is that the infection they speak of refers to whatever mind zap Smokey put on Claire when we saw her hanging out with Christian in the cabin. Let's start applying the tactics of the smoke monster to the discussion of infection and go back through the series:

Desmond and other dude in the hatch--well we already know that the chemicals they had to inject themselves with are more or less placebos, so what's the purpose of the infection rumor here? I suppose it definitely is important to keep that kind of fear in them though as Smokey is out there.

The stuff with pregnancy relating to the infection doesn't make much sense unless there's something we don't yet understand. Ethan pumping drugs into your stomach to keep smokey from getting at the baby? Dubious, but perhaps the drugs had their own purpose for the pregnancy (unlike the hatch placebos) and instead of having to explain everything twice they just went ahead with using the same scare tactic twice.

Cases of other people possibly being infected--I would think Michael when Walt kept persuading him to do creepy shit. Come to think of it though, did Michael ever actually see Walt? He communicated with something pretending to be Walt through the hatch computer, but did he have actual visions of the boy the way other characters did? Can Smokey even take the form of living people?

captncrzy
02-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Wondering now after reading what Randy wrote if there is some way Smokey can get into a newborn. Maybe that's why the babies kept dying, and why they were trying to inject the infants with "protection".

Monklish
02-10-2010, 11:18 AM
Well supposedly that problem didn't come into existence until the Incident or whatever, right? Actually I'm not sure that we're remotely clear on that. For some reason it feels like the baby problem must have started somewhere between when the Others took over the Dharma barracks and Juliette's arrival though.

Blinken
02-10-2010, 11:57 AM
I think the baby problem has to do with the island's healing properties. It was said that the mothers immune system goes into overdrive and starts attacking the fetus.

Interesting to note though that if Claire got infected at the explosion, it happened moments after Danielle died. So maybe the infection is more like possession by specific Island powers. The one that was in Rousseau may have then Jumped to the weakest/most compatible host. This may mean that Jacob was infected with something that then jumped to Sayid.

LAPD worst police force ever. Can't even find a bitch driving around in a stolen cab, leaving LAX.

Blinken
02-10-2010, 11:59 AM
Maybe the incident kicked the healing powers into overdrive by releasing so much energy

herro kitty
02-10-2010, 12:15 PM
the whole scene with Kate getting help from the mechanic all went a little too smooth as well. I'm surprised she didn't blow the guy for a repaint and some new plates, that would have been smarter than heading over to become Clair's best friend just in time for pregnancy.

Yeah, what the heck? No one calls the cops anymore? The mechanic even lets her use the restroom. What the heck. At least the cab driver should report a stolen vehicle? And Kate's officer guy sees her and chases after the cab, but when the cab stops because that guy is in front of it, where did the cop go? Did he give up a second later? Shouldn't the cop have caught up by then?! Kate gets away with too much just because she's pretty.

J~$$$$
02-10-2010, 12:19 PM
gets away with too much just because she's pretty.

Life's little lessons.

tessalasset
02-10-2010, 12:59 PM
Seriously. Last night I said out loud "Wait, she already got out of LAX?" They would have had to drive from the Bradley terminal all the way to the end of the horse shoe, mid day, in traffic. That would have taken her way longer. To their credit tho, it really did look like LAX. I completely forgot they didn't shoot it there.


Geezr, I would have gone to Paul Revere and Pali but I ended up staying in private school the whole time. For high school I actually went to a boarding school in St. Louis. Both of my sisters went to Pali though.

thestripe
02-10-2010, 02:17 PM
I lost my entire day to lostpedia. Shit's deep.

J~$$$$
02-10-2010, 02:42 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S3LVyuVnOfI/AAAAAAAAxqA/G9wUfDrO1Bk/s640/SS-2010.02.10-15.50.08.png

cansei de ser sexme
02-15-2010, 08:35 PM
I am guessing that Claire is dead and controlled by the smoke monster. If she wasn't then why would she have never tried to return?

Also is there even an infection, because it seems that every time someone mentions an "infection" it is just referring to them acting differently because the smoke monster has taken over their body. For example the french people, who all died going into the smoke monster's cave, and then tried to kill Rousseau.

Also end of the last season, when Jacob dies he says "They're coming." Who are they? I thought this would have been answered at the beginning of this season.


So the real question I have is...

clean kate vs dirty kate

chairmenmeow47
02-16-2010, 08:00 AM
"claimed" was the closest translation to whatever this infection is. maybe it's just like being possessed.

atom heart
02-16-2010, 08:04 AM
eRJvaQuCh5c

thestripe
02-16-2010, 10:44 AM
It's Tuesday already!

PUMPED

tessalasset
02-16-2010, 01:16 PM
god i love michael emerson.

Blinken
02-16-2010, 01:36 PM
Canada gets the show 2 hours early tonight. So it will on the internet really early tonight.

atom heart
02-16-2010, 06:11 PM
My friend totally called Bizarro Ben's profession last week!

J~$$$$
02-16-2010, 07:15 PM
I finally get it.

Dj Oso Fresh
02-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Wait, so no one was ever meant to leave? They will all either die or take Jacobs place? What about Aaron and Walt?

Dj Oso Fresh
02-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Just wanted to share that my girlfriend just said

"Wait, so its like Hotel California?"

hahahaha

tessalasset
02-16-2010, 10:03 PM
Wait, so no one was ever meant to leave? They will all either die or take Jacobs place? What about Aaron and Walt?

Only the candidates will have the option to take Jacobs place. Walt and Aaron weren't candidates.

bballarl
02-16-2010, 11:41 PM
"John Locke was a much better man than I will ever be, and I'm sorry I murdered him."

tessalasset
02-17-2010, 12:06 AM
I like how by this point, no one was even fazed by that.

bballarl
02-17-2010, 12:14 AM
Best line in the series at this point.

tessalasset
02-17-2010, 01:42 AM
I don't think this has been posted yet from last week:


Things I Noticed - "What Kate Does" by Vozzek69
Posted by DarkUFO at 2/10/2010 07:45:00 PM View Comments
Labels: Recaps, Vozzek69, What Kate Does
Bookmark and Share

A Kate-centric episode? GASP! The horror.

When it comes to any episode that's centered around Kate, there are some LOST fans that will never be pleased. If Kate is selfish and self-centered, she's villainized. If she pulls a few selfless acts (as in tonight's case), the episode is declared boring or slow-paced. Action-packed writing is great, but character-driven writing is what has always made LOST stand out from other TV shows. The recipe for LOST's success has been an equal amount of both, which is why we can't always jump on the 'lame, boring, filler' bandwagon whenever it rolls into town.

Last night's episode was good but not great, but even a good episode of LOST is better than 95% of everything else on television these days. The other day I was trapped in a waiting room while they made vibrator jokes on The View (no joke). Ugh. Kate-haters and action-junkies aside, What Kate Does was pretty solid. Things I Noticed:


Kate-Centric Episodes v6.0 . . . Now With 50% More Gunplay!

If there's one thing Kate knows, it's the value of a good hostage. Her departure from LAX may have seemed rather cold, but that's because getting away from the marshal requires some serious effort. Kate wasn't too good at noticing that Claire was pregnant, but she sure as hell recognized Jack as the taxi driver stopped so Arzt could pick up his, uh, excessive baggage.

"But Vozzek, Kate's gaze lingered on Jack only because she recognized him from the airplane!" Yeah, okay. And Claire blurted out Aaron's name this episode because it happened to be rattling around in her head after reading a baby name book. C'mon, really. It's season six. We threw coincidence out the window years ago, and it cartwheeled through the jungle like the fuselage of Flight 815. At this point, the looks and sudden flashes of recognition we're seeing are our main characters channeling their experiences from another timeline. Kate and Jack didn't lock eyes simply because she remembered stealing his pen as he left the can... her look was a lot more telling than that.

But hey, I'm not here to convince anyone. If you want to believe the alternate timeline has nothing to do with the previous events we've seen for the last five years, go crazy. :)


No More Whoooosh

For five years, we've heard the same familiar sound byte used as a changeover effect, signifying on-island events transitioning to off-island memories or flashbacks. Yet these new flashes sound different now; broken or disjointed... maybe even from the other side of a mirror. It reminded me of the lead-in from the backward episode of Seinfeld.


Miles, Get Us Some Water... And None of that Brown Stuff They Drowned Sayid In

Sayid seemed more than a little confused after his apparent resurrection. He was totally blanked out - his mind resetting to the moment he got shot. Jack makes no bones about the fact that he died, and the temple-dwellers seem to understand this too. If Sayid had been healed by the water, he would've been fine, but that's not what happened. Somehow Sayid has returned from the dead, and in the eyes of Dogen's people, that presents a very big problem.

Did Sayid spend some time at the "in-between" place mentioned in the Eko-centric episode entitled ? Totally. Just as Charlotte Malkin drowned and later came back to life, it seems Sayid might've dipped into this realm for a few minutes himself. It should be interesting if he regains memories of being in that place, and can somehow talk about it the way Charlotte told Eko of seeing his brother, Yemi. Sayid's mention of the last thing he remembered also seemed similar to Locke's words when he woke up on the beach after the Ajira flight: "I remember dying".

Sawyer's line about Sayid coming back because he was a torturer and child-killer was him channeling his anger at what happened to Juliet. Yet in a very 'only the good die young moment', it reminded us of some Purgatory-like rules: the greater the sin, the more the suffering. Perhaps Sawyer has it all backward. Maybe Juliet was allowed to pass on because she'd reconciled herself and made peace with her past. Sayid on the other hand, had drifted into unconsciousness knowing and believing he'd end up in a very terrible place. That place? The island, all over again. If it does turn out to be a place of suffering, it would make sense that the island isn't done with him yet - the same way it wasn't done with Michael.


After We Torture Sayid For a While, We'll Be Happy To Do Some Q&A

It's funny how much less patience our main characters have with the Others nowadays. Their captivity somehow feels different this time around, and it's like they all know it. Jack doesn't believe for a single minute that they'll get any form of answers from Dogen or his people, and Sawyer's willing to back out of the temple behind the business end of a heavy pistol. Nobody does much to stop him, and I think that's for a variety of reasons.

His loaded gun aside, the temple-dwellers simply can't force Sawyer to stay. They could bring him there, bully him, and even claim they were protecting him. But the moment Sawyer decided to leave on his own volition? I got the definite feeling they had to let him go. I think this had to do more with the concept of free will, and allowing individual choices. It also seems critical that the people on Jacob's list stay safe, because if they were to be killed off it would apparently ruin everything.

For these two reasons Dogen steps forward, and using English, very nicely asks Sawyer to stay. When he refuses, he allows Kate and Jin to go after him because, as Kate puts it, she intends to 'convince him' to come back. Although they might've dragged Sawyer there the first time around, I think Dogen knows it's important that he come back to the temple on his own, like the rest of Jack's group did. Maybe this is even why Sawyer leaves in the first place.

I'm still not sure how Dogen's diagnosis of Sayid was supposed to work. Either he electrocuted Sayid because he'd watched a little too much Rambo II, or he felt the need to perpetuate the season one parallel of Rousseau zapping Sayid with a car battery. After sprinkling him with some volcanic ash, Dogen wordlessly seared Sayid's wound with a hot poker, all the while looking into his eyes for his reaction. I watched this scene several times, and I'm not sure at which point Dogen determines that Sayid is somehow infected. The first scream he lets out seems a bit inhuman and unlike Sayid, but I guess that's to be expected. Ash or no ash, you could've covered Sayid with cherry Fun Dip and he was still going to scream like that.

Cool Star Wars reference when Sayid was returned, post-torture, to see the rest of his friends. "They didn't even ask me any questions." Excellent job channeling the Han Solo.


Not Too Worried About Hurley's Red Shirt

I'm thinking they've dressed Hugo in a red shirt this season in complete defiance of the red=dead policy. If you believe like I do, Hurley is and has always been completely untouchable by all island forces. The color of his shirt might be the writers handing us a 4XL clue: no matter what the hell happens, Hugo just can't be affected. Red shirt or not, we'll dress him however we like.


Are You A Zombie Dude?

Well, not yet, anyway. The LOST zombie season (or at least zombie-episode) is foreshadowed here, and I think it's all a matter of destiny. Break out the makeup, and check your S6 DVD for easter eggs.


Please Don't Go? Dogen's Making Tea, and Later On We're Picking Sides For Baseball...

Dogen was good this episode - I liked him much better than last time. He demonstrated some qualities that seemed to humanize his character, from contemplatively spinning the baseball to pounding out his letter to Santa on that old typewriter. Although still cryptic and demanding, the Other Others chilled out a lot more this episode, and started recognizing our 815 characters as both equals and allies. With the exception of Aldo (who thanks to Claire I don't have to worry about anymore) the temple-dwellers are actually starting to grow on me.

The scenes in which Dogen spoke to Jack were also pretty telling. As he explained his arrival on the island, I got the impression he'd been there for quite a long while. You could also tell that he missed home. Speaking Japanese in lieu of English might've been Dogen's way of protesting the island's captivity, and this was something he and Jack both shared. At this point, everyone is showing a weary bitterness at having been dragged to the island and not permitted to leave.

For a fleeting moment, I also got the impression of even greater age - as if Dogen's history extended back way beyond modern times, back to when having such a territorial disdain for the English language might be a lot more common. While I'm not saying he's as old as Richard Alpert - not even close - I will go out on a limb and say perhaps he's from another era, or time. Maybe even during WWII, an already common theme throughout LOST.

How Dogen got to the island isn't as important as his role as temple leader. He has a sense of duty and an air of resentful detachment. He's still very secretive, but in S6 style he also relents and eventually reveals some big information (although it takes Jack almost killing himself to do it). The coolest part about watching these temple scenes is that, at any moment, huge answers could suddenly be revealed.


Claire's Back! And This Time Around, She's Taking The Bus

Taxi-jacked at gunpoint... all of your belongings stolen... dropped off in the middle of nowhere with a bootprint on your ass. Do you call the police? Dial 911? Nah. Instead you find the nearest bus stop, sit down, and wait for your assailant to return with a free ride. Hey, what can you do? It's all necessary to advance the plot.

While it wasn't the most believable storyline, Kate returning to bring Claire her stuff was a major deviation from her past character. In prior seasons, Kate would've been flying down some highway with the occasional glance in her rear-view mirror. Instead, Kate not only risks returning to the very scene of her escape, but she offers Claire a ride and even accompanies her to the doorstep of her adoptive parents' home.

This time around however, as in many other places, something has changed. This time Claire might have to raise the baby - an idea that was a pretty hot topic back in season one. Even Kate suggests that she keep her son, as if she inwardly knows it's the right thing to do. If this alternate timeline is indeed the corrected one, then Claire staying with Aaron is an important positive change. Claire forging a friendship with Kate might be another. The fact that they bonded over some very intense experiences here may mean that Kate later becomes a big part of Claire's life, playing a mother-like role to Aaron after all.

The big evolution here is that Kate's suddenly a sucker for some baby washcloths and a big stuffed orca. Whatever Kate did, this is now what she does. These important character developments in the LAX timeline signify core changes in Kate's fugitive-like behavior. Apparently, Kate's now a fugitive with heart. Bringing Claire to the hospital was another big risk for her, and it almost got her caught. Still, people probably won't give Kate nearly enough credit here. Despite the fact that she's no more a murderer than Sayid, Locke, Eko, or Sawyer, Kate has traditionally received far less fan forgiveness for the things she's done. Kate-hating will still run rampant, due not so much to her characterization but to the fact that she's bounced back and forth between Jack and Sawyer, and this seems to piss people off to no end.

It's true that Kate has pulled some real wishy-washy romantic shit that has made us want to wring our own necks. But lately? The love triangle has been shoved aside in light of the sheer number of overwhelming experiences these characters have gone through. The writers want us to forget about love for a while, and this is good. The time for sweaty naked writhing on the jungle floor is over, just as our heroes sitting around waiting for The Others to always make the first move seems to be over too.


Ethan - Still Badass, Even In A Long White Lab Coat

Seeing Ethan in the alternate timeline was cool, but not all that surprising. As with everything else that's destiny-related, this seems to be a case of always having to do something over and over again. Just as Charlie is always supposed to die, Ethan is always supposed to be involved in Claire's pregnancy. This is apparently an unchangeable, uncorrectable event - like him not wanting to put needles into her belly. As cool as William Mapother's character is, I have to say I still miss psychotic, Terminator Ethan. That guy was badass. Would've loved to have seen a fight between him and Keamy.

Notice how the baby's heartbeat disappears the moment Claire says "I'm not ready". Not until Claire gets distressed enough to cry out Aaron's name does the heartbeat come back into view on the monitor. Once again, here's a case where wanting or believing in something seems to make it more concrete and tangible. The further Claire seems to get from her baby, the more disconnected she and Aaron become.


Damn, Justin Was Just About To Tell Us Cool Stuff!

Aldo's character was about as interesting and effective as Pryce. He quickly made us hate him this episode, not just because of his disdain for our main characters but also for trying to keep us eternally in the dark. Justin on the other hand, was about to reveal some cool and important shit. We were going to find out a little about jungle-commando Claire, and maybe even what happened to the forgotten Ajira people. Aldo shutting him up was similar to Widmore shutting up Cunningham during Jughead, although not as violently or permanently.

After Kate chumped Aldo for the 2nd straight time, it was cool to see Jin take on an agenda of his own. Following Kate on her never-ending Sawyer quest would've been outright lame. All too often Jin gets relegated to the back seat of LOST's big ride, but here he finally steps up to form his own plan. I was glad to see Jin taking steps to find Sun, especially after realizing they were probably in the same timeline. It's exactly what he should, and would do.

Justin's cryptic last words to Aldo regarding Jin also seemed important: "He might be one of them." We already know Jin is on Jacob's list, and both Aldo and Justin should know it too. So what else does "one of them" mean? Is there an ultimate purpose these people need to stay alive in order to accomplish? I'm thinking yes. What that purpose is however, will probably be one of our last mysteries.


What Part Of "Don't Come After Me" Did You Not Understand???

Josh Holloway was great in this episode. Sawyer's emotional struggle on the dock no longer included anger for Jack, but only self-loathing and blame at causing Juliet's death. This was similar to Ben's slow realization that he himself was responsible for the death of Alex, and not Martin Keamy or Charles Widmore. Sawyer saw himself as selfish for keeping Juliet on the island, just as Ben saw himself as selfish for trying to raise Alex as his own daughter when he really should've known better. And Sawyer throwing his engagement ring into the water mirrored Desmond's past actions in a very touching scene. These types of parallels are always cool, and this one was done exceptionally well.

In my opinion? This much selflessness completes Sawyer's journey. His character has come full circle. At this point we should be worried about losing him, as characters on LOST who have such deep revelations almost always end up leaving the realm of the island. Who knows where Sawyer might've ended up if Kate hadn't chased after him? Perhaps he would've completed his journey of self-discovery, like Boone... Shannon... Ana Lucia... Michael. Not all characters who reach enlightenment have happy endings on LOST, as Rose & Bernard seem to have. We need to recognize that.


Jack Shephard, Free Will, And The Importance Of Cleaning Up One's Own Mess

In what was the most crucial part of the episode, Jack storms into Dogen's study for some hard answers. Watch as he tells the armed guards to "step aside"... they glance at each other for a moment, then move to let him through as if they didn't have a choice. This seemed to make Jack important, even if he doesn't yet know it. Lennon's next words to him? "We were hoping you'd come on your own". They didn't send for him - possibly because they couldn't - but they needed him nonetheless.

Throughout LOST, one of the bigger recurring themes has always been choice. Dogen and Lennon needed Jack to show up here because he's the one who must deliver Sayid's 'medicine'. When Jack asks why they don't just give it to him themselves, he's told "Because it won't work unless he takes it freely. And he won't take it freely unless you give it to him".

Think back to season two for a minute, where Ms. Klugh was asking Michael to lure four of his friends to The Others' encampment. "Why don't you just get them yourselves?" Michael had asked her, to which Klugh replied "It doesn't work that way, Michael". The Others could've taken these people by force any time that they wanted, but for some reason they didn't. They even had three out of four of them at gunpoint, on the day Mr. Friendly drew a line in the sand. Yet somehow, for some reason, they needed these people to come on their own. Just like Jack did, here and now.

Now think back to season three, where Benjamin Linus was trying to convince Jack to do his spinal surgery. "You want me to save your life?" Jack had asked him incredulously. "No", Ben responded. "I want you to want to save my life". Although there were any number of ways Ben could've forced Jack to operate, he never did. He used Kate and Sawyer (and a live video feed of their heated cage-sex romp) to soften Jack up, and then sweetened the pot with an offer of freedom. Once this happened, Jack was willing to do the operation of his own free will... and I got the impression back then this was the only way it could've been done.

Here, Dogen wants to poison Sayid. He's already had him pinned down, strapped to a table, and could've killed him any time he wanted. We know now however, that this is not how things work. Maybe it's because Sayid is on Jacob's list, or maybe it's for another reason... whatever the case, there are some definite rules involved that prevent the temple-dwellers from just outright killing Sayid. Dogen and his crew need him to accept the pill willingly, yet one more direct parallel to the way Neo took his own pill during The Matrix.

Ah, but here's where things get even more interesting.

Not only do the temple-dwellers need Sayid to effectively kill himself, but they need Jack to act as the accomplice. You could argue that Dogen used Jack because Sayid inherently trusts him, but that's not the sole reason. Jack, and Jack alone, must be the person who gets Sayid to take the poison. And the reason for this is simple: Jack must clean up his own mess.

Go back to last episode. Right before they dipped Sayid in the spring, Dogen says "Who did this to him?" Jack steps up and claims responsibility. "My fault. I didn't shoot him, but it's my fault." This seemed pretty out of place back then, but Dogen puts the same question to Jack right now. He asks again how Sayid got shot, and Jack tells him what happened. "So, he was helping you?", Dogen asks, very specifically. "Yes", Jack says again. And from here, two things become brutally obvious.

First, Jack has to be the one to give Sayid the pill. It can't be Hurley, it can't be Miles... because Jack was the person directly responsible, he must also be the one to clean up his own mess. This very line is used more than once in past seasons, and we've already seen the theory in action:

During season three, Ben tried to make Locke kill Anthony Cooper. He even made it seem as if it were some strange test he had to pass. The truth of the matter however, is that Ben couldn't kill Cooper for a much different reason: Ben wasn't the person who brought the man from Tallahassee to the island in the first place. He thought it was Locke, and therefore needed Locke to commit the murder. But Ben turned out to be wrong here, because it was actually Sawyer who had brought Cooper to the island - a manifestation of his intense desire to find the man responsible for the death of his parents. Even Locke realized this, when he somehow couldn't even bring himself to kill the man who had caused his paralysis. Instead, Locke lured Sawyer to the Black Rock, where he strangled Cooper Jabba-the-Hutt style.

Confused? Don't be. Sawyer had to deal with Cooper because he was the one who brought him to the island, just as Jack had to deal with Christian and Hurley had to deal with Dave. In that respect, the island is much like that evil cave on Dagobah. What's in there? Only what you bring with you.

The second fact that becomes obvious here is how slick and manipulative Dogen can be. Knowing that Jack is the only person who can give Sayid the ill-pill, he uses Jack's guilty conscience against him. "Have there been others who have been hurt, or who have died helping you?" As Jack nods his head, Dogen offers him a chance at false redemption. He tries playing upon Jack's need to constantly save people, threatening the fact that his friend will die without taking the medicine.

Jack is smart enough not to go for it, and for that I give him credit. Dogen actually had me convinced the pill was a good idea. I thought it might've contained the volcanic ash, and that it would somehow exorcise the demons (or 'growing darkness') about to possess Sayid. Instead, it was meant to kill him - something Jack selflessly figured out on his own in much the same way he power-played Ben and Mr. Friendly to facilitate Sawyer & Kate's escape from zoo-island.

Jack's need to look out for Sayid overrode his own safety here. He was already feeling responsible for too many deaths. Although I don't think Jack has always given himself a fair shake, this was just another one of those times where he put other people above himself. When they live, he's a hero doctor. When they die, he gets slapped by others with the responsibility of their demise. In the grand scheme of things, Jack has a lot of messes that still need to be cleaned up. Fortunately for him, he also seems to hold some hidden power we don't yet know about.


The Closest Translation Would Be... Annoying

Sayid's soon-to-be metamorphosis seems almost moth-like, and raises some very big questions. Is the dark man the one who will be claiming Sayid, or will Jacob himself do it? I vote for Jacob - if only because it might mean Sayid's continued safety. I also think it's important that Sayid was dipped in the temple pool - whatever was left of Jacob's physical spirit may have entered him through that nasty water. The dark-shirted man also seems busy at the moment, and perhaps the Other Others don't know about him already claiming Locke. But if Claire was claimed in the same way... then whatever is about to happen to Sayid might be independent of both Jacob and his nemesis. Maybe.


Jungle Commando Claire Has A Bad Case Of The Frizzies

The sickness is back... and this time it's real? That one threw me. Even more important, why has Claire jumped into Danielle Rousseau's exact role... filth-smeared complexion, rifle, lost baby and all?

Did Claire skip through time with the island's movements last season? Did she spend three years on the island during 70's Dharma, or did she remain in the island present from 2004 through 2007? There are lots of immediate questions we need answers too, the least of which is what happened when she hooked up with ghost Christian Shephard.

Claire's existence as Danielle Rousseau should be more than a little troubling here. It's as if her body has jumped into a whole new role, adapting a whole new set of rules. Remember that Claire's mind was once "reset to the crash", way back in season one. What if this happened to her again? Or what if Claire's mind was reset so many times she went berserk with the sickness, with only vague recollections of her previous times through the island's historic loop?

Maybe she won't recognize Jin at all, but my guess is that some flash of vague recognition has given her pause right now. Just as Claire slowly began remembering things after returning from Ethan's captivity, perhaps her season one through four memories are being suppressed much the same way. If two weeks of her life went missing during Homecoming, why not three whole years? Yet none of this explains how closely she can be channeling Danielle Rousseau. It's not like making coconut net traps is a skill she could've picked up from one of Locke's survival magazines.

We need more. A quick glance and a squint isn't much to go on, so hopefully next week will provide some answers.

tessalasset
02-17-2010, 02:49 AM
I really freaking hope this is in Los Angeles and not Honolulu. (http://profilesinhistory.com/upcoming-auctions/lost-the-auction.html)

atom heart
02-17-2010, 04:30 AM
I hope the Bizarro timeline isn't all warm and fuzzy because if the two timelines ever converge it'll just end in tears.

J~$$$$
02-17-2010, 05:58 AM
I think the timelines will eventually merge.

Quick side note the guy that writes that blog that Tessa posted.... His house burnt down on Monday and he is now homeless. Via darkufo blogspot.

J~$$$$
02-17-2010, 06:18 AM
best theroy I have heard


The ALT timeline: shows the candidates without their defining candidate characteristics. Last night we saw Locke without faith in anything. Jack seems less psychotically driven. Hurley, though, still seems pure, but seems MORE confident. A BETTER candidate.

The ALT timeline is the one where Smokey thinks he has stacked the deck to win. Smokey is going to eliminate (he hopes) the knowledgeable versions of the candidates on the island and then (his loophole) deal with the more tractable, ALT versions. One of whom, he hopes, will let him loose, particularly since they don't know much about him, even if he can't get one of the Sawyers or Sayids already on the island to be his patsy.

The island ends up getting sunk; Smokey gets free; Jacob is still dead (otherwise, how did the island get destroyed/sunk, since the appointed guardian is supposed to protect the island); and the candidates (at least so far in their centric episodes) have lost what made them candidates: faith, single-minded drive, in the brief instance we saw Sun/Jin, a genuine focus on each other vs. the way they were at the beginning of S1). So there aren't any candidates, or at least, the candidates have lost what will enable them to stand up to Smokey (and by the end, I am fairly sure the ALT timeline characters will end up on the island).

Prediction: Winner and still champion at the end of S6, and new guardian of the island: Hurley. He seems like the weakest one, but he is the one who is pure and has stayed pure throughout the show. He's even a BETTER good guy in the ALT timeline: selfless despite wealth and temptation, more confident. Still sorry when he offends someone, and still turns the other cheek. Smokey has underestimated Hugo.

Sawyer will be shown to be running a con on Smokey, and will be a hero in the end, but will pay for it.

Last scene: Smokey and Hurley on the beach. Something is inbound for the island. An ALT version of the first scene of S5. The game renews.

captncrzy
02-17-2010, 07:08 AM
"John Locke was a much better man than I will ever be, and I'm sorry I murdered him."


Best line in the series at this point.

"No, I am not a zombie".


I found the differences in who Locke is in LA interesting; I suspect because Jacob/Richard haven't manipulated his life in this go-around, giving him a sense of entitlement or higher purpose. He's a realist because of it.

chairmenmeow47
02-17-2010, 07:32 AM
Only the candidates will have the option to take Jacobs place. Walt and Aaron weren't candidates.

i don't think kate was either.

4 - locke
8 - reyes
15 - ford
16 - jirrah
23 - shepard (jack or christian or claire or aaron depending on how you think of it???)
42 - kwon (sun or jin or ji-yeong depending on how you think of it???)

awesome episode. i totally called that he was with helen when they pulled into suburbia. i wonder if he's in the wheelchair for the same reason since he didn't cry over the mention of his dad.

"inside joke"

stinkbutt
02-17-2010, 08:25 AM
I was gonna bring up Kate not being on the wall too. Why the hell is she even such a main character if she isn't a candidate? Is she just a protagonist? If so then why did Jacob visit her as a child like the other candidates?

GeezrRckr
02-17-2010, 08:44 AM
i can't remember, but where one of the stones white and the other black ("inside joke")?

stinkbutt
02-17-2010, 08:48 AM
yeah like the ones they found in the first season on those corpses

thestripe
02-17-2010, 08:51 AM
In that respect, the island is much like that evil cave on Dagobah. What's in there? Only what you bring with you.


This is great.

GeezrRckr
02-17-2010, 08:53 AM
yeah like the ones they found in the first season on those corpses

oh shit. interesting.

but, damn...i forgot about this tidbit. please refresh my memory....thanks!

thestripe
02-17-2010, 09:29 AM
So who is the blood covered boy?


The casting call described him as "Teenage boy, caucasian, 12-14. Dirty blond hair. Wise beyond his years. He's got intense, searching eyes. He's dealt with a horrible family accident. Even at a young age, he has been put in charge of something very important, and it weighs heavily on his shoulders."

Last nights episode was excellent.

J~$$$$
02-17-2010, 09:30 AM
Jacob.

chairmenmeow47
02-17-2010, 09:41 AM
the kid appeared to be a part of the temple vest club, so i assumed he was one of the kids from the flight. jacob is a good guess too. and if smokey was in fact a man at one point, maybe it's someone from smokey's past we have yet to meet.

bballarl
02-17-2010, 09:46 AM
Gotta be Jacob.

J~$$$$
02-17-2010, 09:53 AM
Jacob can't die per say. Ben killing him just gave smokie some time to set his final plan in motion.

Blinken
02-17-2010, 09:56 AM
I really think it is Jacob, at least in the same way Yemi was Yemi. There seems to be a third being, we are all wrong when we assume that Flocke is represented by the black stone. I think that Flocke is the scale not one of the stones. Remember Ben needed the Smoke Monster to judge him, and Richard doesn't know the whole story.

I noticed that Littleton was a crossed out name on the wall. So we can assume that once they are claimed by one of the three the can't be used by anyone else. It also makes sense thay Flocke is not the one claiming Claire and Sayid.

chairmenmeow47
02-17-2010, 10:09 AM
stop trying to make flocke happen, blink :p

good catch on littleton.

thestripe
02-17-2010, 10:13 AM
I assumed it was Jacob as well, but why in the form of a child? Hurley saw him in the form of an adult. If it is Jacob you would have to assume that "You can't kill him" is referencing someone besides Jacob. Unless the island took the shape of young jacob, letting MiB know that that rules have been broken (The island's the scale, not Locke). Either way, MiB looked very surprised to see him and looked even more suprised that Sawyer could see him.

Did anyone else find it a little odd that MiB seemed to act like Locke with the whole "You can't tell me what I can do".

atom heart
02-17-2010, 12:12 PM
Not sure how I feel about Smokey in general. Richard is plain terrified of him, but obviously doesn't really know what's going on. He talks a good talk. Both his speech to Richard about "respect" (undermined by his having punched Richard in the throat), and to Sawyer about being trapped and forgetting his freedom were oddly convincing to me. Also his clear confusion about the appearance of bloody mystery boy made him a little less mystifying.

Also, good on Sawyer for being unfazed and seeing through UnLocke's appearance.

iGz89
02-17-2010, 03:38 PM
I wonder if Michael Emerson knows how much he and Thom Yorke look alike.

atom heart
02-17-2010, 05:10 PM
I don't know what you're talking about. Emerson looks nothing like Yorke.
It's all about:
http://theenvelope.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-06/39831593.jpg
http://lostfournaridis.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/richard_alpert.jpg

fikus222
02-17-2010, 08:27 PM
LOST, I continue to be pleased.

bballarl
02-17-2010, 11:37 PM
My friend commented that that boy might have been Aaron. While he is probably someone less exciting than that, we both thought that would be pretty cool.

Blinken
02-18-2010, 01:34 PM
Ok something has been bugging my for awhile now. When Jacob touches the losties it is to guide them to the Island. He gives Sawyer a pen to finish the letter that will drive him to Australia. He gives Kate the lunch box that will store the little airplane which motivates her journey later in life. He saves Sayid from getting run over and brings Locke back from the dead. He even put Hurley on the plane back to the island. But all he did for Jack was give him a fucking candy bar???? Does this bug anyone else?

Ivy I am going to keep using Flocke until I get a real name. :)

captncrzy
02-18-2010, 01:36 PM
He's rich. The rest are poor. Ergo the snickers instead of the lunch box or fancy pen. (Hugo is super rich and he only got a shitty beat up guitar case purchased at the pawn shop down the street.)

gazercmh
02-18-2010, 01:41 PM
I kinda like Smoky John as his name.

J~$$$$
02-18-2010, 02:00 PM
Ok something has been bugging my for awhile now. When Jacob touches the losties it is to guide them to the Island. He gives Sawyer a pen to finish the letter that will drive him to Australia. He gives Kate the lunch box that will store the little airplane which motivates her journey later in life. He saves Sayid from getting run over and brings Locke back from the dead. He even put Hurley on the plane back to the island. But all he did for Jack was give him a fucking candy bar???? Does this bug anyone else?

Ivy I am going to keep using Flocke until I get a real name. :)

snickers=satisfied.

chairmenmeow47
02-18-2010, 02:04 PM
http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/829101-1/Jesus_Snickers.jpg

ivankay
02-18-2010, 02:24 PM
That blood does look a little chocolatey.

tessalasset
02-19-2010, 05:37 PM
He saves Sayid from getting run over

On the contrary, I think Sayid and Nadia would have crossed the street just fine. Jacob pulled Sayid aside, causing Nadia to stop in the middle of the street and wait for him, only to get hit. Jacob caused Nadia to die and Sayid to become depressed enough to go on a killing rampage and eventually get pulled back to the island.

atom heart
02-20-2010, 06:31 AM
Did Sayid ever kill anyone mainland on his own? Weren't all of his hits by Ben's request? Who did Ben have Sayid kill anyway?

chairmenmeow47
02-20-2010, 08:18 AM
Did Sayid ever kill anyone mainland on his own? Weren't all of his hits by Ben's request? Who did Ben have Sayid kill anyway?

i would guess at some point he killed someone during his time as a torturer in the republican guard, but i don't know that we ever get any specifics other than from people he tortured that lived.

tessalasset
02-20-2010, 11:59 PM
Didn't Ben tell Sayid every one of those men worked for Widmore, who had Nadia killed? I was under the impression Sayid was avending Nadia's death.

juloxx
02-21-2010, 12:39 AM
My friend commented that that boy might have been Aaron. While he is probably someone less exciting than that, we both thought that would be pretty cool.

He is Aaron, dont trip.

atom heart
02-21-2010, 03:11 PM
But Ben would just tell Sayid that they had Nadia killed no matter what they actually did. Also, Nadia's death looked more like an accident than anything. Was Ben ever aware of the creepy What Lies in the Shadow of the Stature crew before he met them on the island?

damn damn DAMN
the series finale is the day after I have to leave campus! So much for seeing it with my friends.

J~$$$$
02-23-2010, 05:13 PM
Hi.

J~$$$$
02-23-2010, 05:14 PM
THE LIGHTHOUSE.

Monklish
02-23-2010, 05:15 PM
Episode looks pretty awesome thus far. The Lighthouse?

J~$$$$
02-23-2010, 05:16 PM
That is the name of the eps. and station.

juloxx
02-23-2010, 05:18 PM
I don't know what you're talking about. Emerson looks nothing like Yorke.
It's all about:
http://lostfournaridis.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/richard_alpert.jpg

http://viejohnny.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/xerxes.jpg

Blinken
02-23-2010, 05:28 PM
Very good episode so far.

Monklish
02-23-2010, 05:50 PM
I FUCKING HATE JACK SO MUCH.

OnlyNonStranger
02-23-2010, 05:50 PM
^Agreed.

Blinken
02-23-2010, 05:51 PM
Yep, what a fucking idiot.

Monklish
02-23-2010, 06:00 PM
I swear to God every episode with a Kate or Jack backstory fucking blows.

Blinken
02-23-2010, 06:01 PM
HOLY SHIT

Yeah the flash-sideways was kinda lame(although the appendectomy scar raises lots of questions), but the everything on the Island was fucking great. WOW.

Monklish
02-23-2010, 06:09 PM
Really? That surprised you?

BobCaygeon
02-23-2010, 06:27 PM
Did you notice "Linus" and "Rousseau" crossed out on the compass?

donkey sex
02-23-2010, 06:38 PM
got an hour and a half till I get to witness the Claire as Roussou onslaught shown in the previews

tick tick tick

chairmenmeow47
02-23-2010, 06:40 PM
WHY THE FUCK IS JACK A LEPER?!??!

J~$$$$
02-23-2010, 07:39 PM
Did you notice "Linus" and "Rousseau" crossed out on the compass?

Oh noes ways. I totally missed it, I hate when they flash shit.

captncrzy
02-23-2010, 08:14 PM
I just lied to a samurai

GeezrRckr
02-23-2010, 09:15 PM
great ending!

digitaldragon03
02-23-2010, 10:14 PM
Emile de Ravin showed her lack of acting skills in this episode. Other than that, it was a good episode. Not as good as last weeks, but still good.

Sexecutioner
02-23-2010, 10:18 PM
I FUCKING HATE JACK SO MUCH.

Seriously!

tessalasset
02-23-2010, 11:01 PM
1. why did jin wait til the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND before he told claire about aaron? like he just enjoyed watching black dude almost die.
2. why the HELL did he word it like that to her? he can clearly see she's over the edge, and instead of saying "you fucking ran off so we were stuck taking care of your infant and kate made sure he got off the island and into civilization safely because we all thought your ass was dead," he simply says "kate took your baby and she's raising him."

that entire scene just pissed me off and usually i'm able to overlook stuff.

i don't know if it's just because they have to answer so many questions now, but the writing on tonight's episode felt almost lazy to me. this was probably my least favorite episode so far.

it was definitely cool seeing jack as a dad and getting to fix his relationship with david before he spiraled into his own father. as are all of you, i am SO PISSED he smashed the fucking mirrors. jennie and i flipped out at that point. here's this thing that could potentially provide many answers and you just bash it away. fucking idiot. i guess this episode made me more mad than anything.

Blinken
02-24-2010, 12:31 AM
I paused the tv on the names, so I could make out a few of them. Linus, Dawson(michael), Friendly, Rousseau, and Lewis(Charlotte) were all crossed out. The big one that I noticed was number 51 Austen, and it wasn't crossed out. So Kate is on the list after all, I wonder why she wasn't on the cave wall.

I think Jin was just scared shitless by Claire and that is why he didn't speak up sooner. He say the fake baby made with an animal skull, that was disturbing. If he had started to blame Claire then Jin would have an Ax in his stomach as well. She was in no state to listen to reason. I doubt she remembers anything from the explosion, remember how clam she was in the cabin. She obviously didn't start caring about Arron again until after he off the island completely.

Is Christian the Smoke Monster or someone else entirely. Remember she sees them as two separate beings, and knows who John really is. Christian might still have been the smoke monster but I think Clair would have known the difference.

atom heart
02-24-2010, 04:38 AM
Jack Angry! Jack Smash!

And if the most endearing interaction you've had with someone in a long time is almost getting shot, that's pretty sad.

Awaiting a full Hurley episode because his whole interaction with Jacob was HILARIOUS (if a little disturbing that he would blindly do what this guy says).

I find it interesting that both the Monster and Jacob showed someone that Jack et al's names were written on the island but the Monster was straightforward and asked people if they wanted to know (even if they were having none of it, like Richard)

BobCaygeon
02-24-2010, 04:51 AM
I paused the tv on the names, so I could make out a few of them. Linus, Dawson(michael), Friendly, Rousseau, and Lewis(Charlotte) were all crossed out. The big one that I noticed was number 51 Austen, and it wasn't crossed out. So Kate is on the list after all, I wonder why she wasn't on the cave wall.


According to Lostpedia's episode summary (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Lighthouse):


The lighthouse wheel reveals the following that previously wasn't known from the Cliffside cave:
Rousseau crossed out at number 20.
Austen at number 51. Austen is not crossed out and was not shown in the scene in the cave in "The Substitute."
Burke crossed out at number 58.
Faraday crossed out at number 101.
Lewis crossed out at number 104, which is different from The Substitute where she has number 140.
Rutherford crossed out at number 32, which is different from The Substitute where she has number 31.
Wallace crossed out at number 108.
Friendly crossed out at number 109.
Linus crossed out at number 117.
Dawson crossed out at number 124.
Littleton crossed out at number 313.
Horton crossed out at numbers 98 and 112.
Stuart Radzinskycrossed out at 106.
Thomson crossed out at 107.
Klein crossed out at 111.
Lambert crossed out at 116.
Bargas crossed out at 115.
Worden crossed out at 113.

Some names I don't recognize, but they're all hyperlinked for your research pleasure.

Edit: Better list here: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Candidates

captncrzy
02-24-2010, 06:10 AM
Ok, so Jacob wanted Jack to smash the glass....so:


The compass: people that Smokey are recruiting to come to the island to "replace" him?

The rock wall: people that Jacob are recruiting to come to the island to "replace" him?

J~$$$$
02-24-2010, 07:09 AM
I think they all came to the island to replace Jaccob. But smokeys part of the game is to use the candidates to set him free. No one knows who the chosen one is but only that person can set smokey free. Thats why its good to have most of the game pieces on your side.


But something strange is the rules of backgammon,

The object of the game is move all your checkers into your own home board and then bear them off. The first player to bear off all of their checkers wins the game.

chairmenmeow47
02-24-2010, 07:44 AM
so 108 is wallace, who the fuck is wallace? obviously it doesn't matter much though because jacob didn't send them up for that reason anyways. i wonder if it matters what number you are. i mean the show has always placed significance on the 4 8 15 16 23 42 numbers, so why is kate 51? does it even matter?

also, i really couldn't care less about jack's chopin playing kid, as much as i love the imprompteu (which speaking of, did they really need to place a score over chopin???) this is confusing though and makes me wonder how they will reconcile the timelines. jack magically has a son in one timeline and not the other? is it even "his" son or is he a step-dad? seems like his real dad, but you never know with lost. and why was mr. miagi in his past? he's interesting, but i don't really care so much about season 6 characters like him & this new kid, i want to know what's happening with people we've already fucking seen. i agree with tessa that this was a horrible episode all around.

speaking of horrible, claire pretending to be tough like danielle was painful to watch. i can't believe someone let that shit acting job air. and while i agree with tessa that jin handled that situation in an odd manner, i don't know that claire would have understand the truth. she obviously doesn't even seem to acknowledge that SHE LEFT her baby; no one TOOK the baby from her.

so that leads us to more pressing questions, claire & christian, why the fuck do their bodies walk around? are they truly dead? are they dead and somehow resurrected? did the temple bring them back to life? are they just incarnations of smokey as well? can he only take the form of people he's "touched" or something, a la terminator 2? i'm really confused on whether or not claire died, whether or not she's actually alive now as we knew her and whether or not she's beyong saving from whatever this "infection" or "being claimed" is.

i am pretty much done with sayid at this point and wonder what more he can possibly bring to this show. i'm not a fan of jack, but at least we see he's being set-up for SOME sort of importance in the ending and he has family ties so it makes sense for him to be around, as annoying as he is. i'm done with kate too, though i also understand that there will have to be some sort of claire vs. kate showdown. i'm really really REALLY hoping we get some jin & sun action soon, i want them to find each other so bad. and WHEN OH WHEN are we going to get a richard flashback?!?!?!??!

it was kinda eerie when they found shannon's inhaler. also when jack noticed his appendectimy (sp?) scar. maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's interesting the show has two "lighthouses", the one on the island to find candidates and the one off the island to find the island. i wonder if there's any correlation? lastly, why the fuck wasn't jack at his dad's funeral to know his son was crying? did that not seem odd to anyone else?

MOST IMPORTANTLY, what the FUCK was that leper looking scar on jack's face during all the island scenes?!?!? that was driving me bananas.

i can't wait for next week's episode. it HAS to be better than this week's at least, right?

i812many
02-24-2010, 09:05 AM
So do we know for sure that Jacob is the good guy? I don't believe it was ever said out loud. And Psalm 23 is "The lord is my shepherd" and Jacks number is 23

chairmenmeow47
02-24-2010, 09:12 AM
So do we know for sure that Jacob is the good guy? I don't believe it was ever said out loud. And Psalm 23 is "The lord is my shepherd" and Jacks number is 23

thanks for pointing that out. we'd better fucking get some answers regarding the numbers this season.

J~$$$$
02-24-2010, 09:12 AM
I am in the minority but I loved that eps. The skeletons= rose and Bernard. They can't hide that well, but if Claire could do it so could they.


There was so much to this eps. I missed. I'm going to have to watch it again, and yes Claire sucks at acting.

chairmenmeow47
02-24-2010, 10:12 AM
interesting theory about rose & bernard being the skeletons. i was glad hurley mentioned them if only because i'm sick to death of reading questions about the skeletons. out of all of lost's mysteries, the skeletons don't really interest me that much. i'm more interested in finding vincent, have we seen him this season?

and why is jacob ok with hurley & jack not being at the temple cause he knows some shit is about to go down?

ivankay
02-24-2010, 10:28 AM
and why is jacob ok with hurley & jack not being at the temple cause he knows some shit is about to go down?

i think they all might be toast once Claire and Smocke get in thanks to Jin.

digitaldragon03
02-24-2010, 10:35 AM
i think they all might be toast once Claire and Smocke get in thanks to Jin.
I think chairmen is asking why Jacob ISNT concerned with his people being killed by Smokie and Claire, as long as the Oceanic people are safe. Im beginning to think Jacob is less of a good guy now. Well, his intentions might be good, but he goes about it in a bad way.

ivankay
02-24-2010, 10:52 AM
Right. Shouldn't be werking and half assed reading at the same time. Jacob can't feel too bad about people who are already dead in his eyes. If he crossed them out, he must have seen their inevitable end. The candidates' demises might concern him.

tessalasset
02-24-2010, 12:26 PM
MOST IMPORTANTLY, what the FUCK was that leper looking scar on jack's face during all the island scenes?!?!? that was driving me bananas.


i was under the impression it was a healing scab from when sawyer beat the shit out of him.

tessalasset
02-24-2010, 12:30 PM
http://viejohnny.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/xerxes.jpg

more like

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/108losties/108losties/paulo.jpg

J~$$$$
02-24-2010, 01:32 PM
I <3 this guy.


Things I Noticed - "Lighthouse" by Vozzek69

Lighthouse didn't have action. It didn't have gunplay, or chase scenes, or anything resembling an explosion. Aside from Claire putting an axe through Justin's chest cavity, it was devoid of violence or punishment. Yet this episode did have something else - something that at this point in the story most of us are willing to trade all of these past LOST staples for: great acting, season one nostalgia, and more big answers. Things I Noticed:

Chicks Dig Scars

LAX_Jack's storyline provided some big reveals, starting right off with another scene in which shirtless Jack checks himself out in a mirror. Once more, the catalyst of running water is included. Again the mirrors on LOST reflect back the truth: Jack sees his appendectomy scar and begins vaguely remembering how he got it... on island, of course. Even after asking his mother, Jack doesn't seem to remember a procedure that would certainly stick out in the mind of any nine-year old boy. And of course the reason Jack doesn't remember this event, is because the LAX_appendectomy never really happened.

This makes the flash-sideways scenery nothing more than another trumped up extension of LOST's storytelling. Like the flashbacks of past seasons and the off-island world of the Oceanic Six, these are experiences that have been completely tampered with. Locke's alarm clock from last episode sounded exactly like the 1-minute warning horn of the Swan's countdown timer, just as Desmond's microwave sounded exactly like the 4-minute reminder beep. MacCutcheon's whiskey even makes another encore appearance, and this should be getting pretty routine by now.

Accepting on-island coincidence is easy to do - we've seen all kinds of magical things happen on LOST. But for the diehard skeptics, I invite you to explore the possibility that even the off-island stuff isn't real. There's a chapter in my book called "The Flashbacks Aren't Really Flashbacks", and there's a really good reason for that. Here in season six, it's looking more and more like the same thing goes for the flash-sideways of the alternate LAX timeline.

So who's manipulating all these experiences? It's hard to say. But if we're willing to accept that Jacob's been pushing and manipulating his candidates all of their lives, it's not that big a stretch to think that most of what we've seen so far - flashwise, anyway - has been altered, fabricated, or modified to fit each character's predetermined role on the show.

Imagine for a moment that Jack's not a doctor because he went to medical school, but because his flashbacks make him a doctor... that Sayid tortures people because his flashbacks make him a torturer. Sawyer the con man, Kate the fugitive, Charlie the drug addict... you could say all of these people are products of their environment, but if their environment is manipulated, then who are they really?


Black and White with No Red in Sight

There was an amazing number of black and white references this episode, and most of them were in LAX_Jack's world. All throughout his home we saw black and white, especially amongst the paintings, photos, frames, and wall hangings. Ditto for Jack's black and white office. And the icing on the cake? All those various shots of piano keys.

Figuring out Jack's color is tough right now. Like Sawyer, he's walked both sides of the fence. He's been a man of science and a man of faith, and he's also someone who walks "among us but is not one of us". I suppose all of these references could be pointing out that Jack's final role has yet to be determined, or that maybe he's being played by both sides of LOST's game.


See You On The Other Side... Of The Daddy Issues

Reflections were rampant during The Lighthouse, but there was no bigger reflection than getting to see that Jack had a son. David is a dark, brooding kid who has separated himself and his life from his father's own busy world. He's so much like Jack it's almost ridiculous... but more on that later on.

I thought the kid who played David did a tremendous job. It was a tough role, and he really pulled it off. Matthew Fox had some great scenes with him, and his acting was extremely believable. I don't usually comment on stuff like this, but everything this episode was very well done.

There were many interesting things about Jack's interaction with David. For one, it seemed the more out of touch he got with his son, the further removed David became. I'm not talking about mentally or emotionally removed either - I'm talking about the scene where Jack returns to find that David is utterly and completely gone.

Again, I was reminded of Aaron here. In the Oceanic Six storyline, Aaron pulled a similar disappearing act. The more Kate needed him, the firmer he became. But once she doubted herself or her ability to keep him, Aaron seemed to very quickly disappear. Jack has doubts like this all throughout this episode, even telling Hurley he'd make a "terrible father".

Another strong parallel between David and Aaron occurs as Jack picks up the book Alice in Wonderland. As Jack smiles in recognition, you have to wonder exactly what he's recalling. "I used to read this to you when you were little" could easily be him remembering reading the book to Aaron, as he and Kate played house together two seasons back. How many times has Jack read the book, and to how many of his young sons? Very good question.


I Appreciate Your Honesty... But Like WTF Is Going On?

Again, more water and more mirror-imagery. At the temple, Jack stares down into a distorted reflection marred by droplets from the rain, trying to figure out what comes next for him. As Dogen approaches the rain is suddenly gone, and the water behind them is glasslike and calm. Did the rain conveniently stop, or did it only exist in Jack's mind's eye? That's up for you guys to decide, but I'm putting it out there.

Dogen's conversation with Jack lacks the disdain or mystery of past discussions our heroes have had with the Others. There's no smug superiority (Mr. Friendly, Mikhail, etc...) and there's no rampant deception (Ben). Instead, two guys are casually talking shop while trying to figure things out. As per the rules, Dogen knows far more than he can ever say to Jack... but at least he's cool about it. As Jacob says later on, sometimes you can tell people to do something, and other times people need to stare at the ocean and work things out.


What Can You Say, The Guy Likes To Fish

I'm not sure if Jacob was fishing in the brown toilet-water of the temple spring, but it sure looked that way. Again he appears only to Hurley, this time providing something we don't often see during LOST: direct and pointed guidance. More and more, we're getting to understand that Hurley is special. He's not just special in that he can see and speak with the dead, he's special in that the 'dead' are somehow allowed to help him along directly.

"You can do what you want", Jacob tells Hugo, and this is important. Unlike most of LOST's characters, Hurley's path is not predetermined or set in stone. In many ways he's a variable - one that's able to do his own thing. I don't think this is solely because he's a candidate, either. I think it's more because, as Dave once said, Hurley is the one player who's "not even in the game".


Just Past The Mess Hall, Make a Right at Hieroglyph Hallway

As Dogen approaches Hugo while he searches for the secret passage, we notice another interesting aspect of the "rules". Without even realizing it, Hurley is able to Jedi mind-trick Dogen into doing exactly what he says. As he suggests "Why don't you go back to the courtyard", Dogen must reluctantly obey. I think this is because Hurley is a candidate. Just as Jack ordered those two guards to move aside during the season premiere, the direct command Hugo gives Dogen must somehow be followed. Candidates have that power, or so it would seem.


Sayid Needs a New Shirt - Or Five Minutes With a Sewing Kit

Nothing's more obvious than the bullet-hole in Sayid's tank top. If he really wants the temple-dwellers to stop staring at him, he shouldn't be flaunting this glaring reminder that he's just hours away from going zombie-sick on everyone within arm's length.


What's Kate Doing? Oh Yeah... She's Getting WATER

Jack and Hurley's encounter with Kate: totally strange. I wasn't really sure what was off about it until I went back and watched it a few times in a row.

I can understand Kate's agenda - after all, she did promise to find Claire. But the way she cheerily spoke to Jack and even laughed during their encounter seemed just plain 'off', especially considering what's been going on lately. Her final words were weird also: "Just go. Jack, I hope you find what you're looking for". That message wasn't very Kate-ish... it was more like something Rose might say. Dunno why it stuck out for me, but it struck me as somewhat out of character.


The Circle Is Almost Complete... You're a Great Surgeon and a Shitty Father

Jack shows up at his mother's house to help look for his father's will, but there are much deeper reasons for his arrival. Jack's here so his mom can school him in the ways of self-realization, making him an overall better father. He's here to show us that "Good for you" Jack doesn't have an alcohol problem in the ALT, and so we get a nice fat glimpse of the old Shephard residence, enabling us to better recognize it later on at the lighthouse.

We're seeing a very distinct pattern in the LAX timeline, and here it is in a nutshell: the circle can be broken. People can change. Mistakes don't need to be repeated, over and over again. Some examples so far:

* Kate Austin is a fugitive on the run, only looking out for herself. She glances into a garage mirror and... BANG! Kate heads back to bring pregnant Claire her stuff, help her through false labor, and befriend her during a major crisis... all at great risk to her personal safety. Cue Claire's credit cards and a makeover shopping spree.

* John Locke is the same angry and defiant cripple he's always been. Still struggling against his paralysis he calls Jack's number, looks into a mirror and... BANG! Locke suddenly hangs up the phone and embraces his condition. Helen loves and accepts him for who he is, there's a nice tearful hug, and everything is unicorns and rainbows.

* Jack Shephard is a workaholic surgeon neglecting a son he only sees once a month. He looks in the mirror and... well, you get the picture. With some help from his mother Jack realizes the error of his ways, eases up on young David, and opens his loving arms to his son. Time for ice cream and some hair-rumpling.

This is some exciting news, actually. It may be proof that Jacob is right. People don't always have to fight, corrupt, and destroy. By stopping to take a good look at what they've become, people can actually reverse bad behavior and start making positive changes to their lives. Maybe broken people can be fixed after all.


Maybe We Went Back To Dinosaur Times!

Jack and Hurley's journey to the lighthouse was a long string of amazing scenes. Even something as simple as finding Shannon's asthma inhaler sent me reeling back to a much simpler (never thought I'd say those words when describing LOST!) and more mystical time in the show's history. Hurley mentioning Shannon's name got me almost misty-eyed, and seeing them arrive back at the caves was extremely nostalgic.

"My father led me here", Jack says, finally understanding what we've known all along. Water, shelter... these things weren't provided by Jack, but rather by whatever entity or apparition happened to be controlling Christian Shephard back during White Rabbit. Nothing that's happened to the Flight 815 survivors has been by coincidence or chance, something John Locke explains to Jack very early on in the show. All along, it's been this way. All along, our characters have followed a path not really their own.

Upon seeing the Adam and Eve skeletons, you have to wonder if Jack was led there to find them in the first place. And did Christian bring them to the caves for another reason: the extreme amount of water located around there? Again, water has always been a catalyst for some very bizarre stuff.

As for Hugo and Jack, we didn't often get to see these two characters alone together, and they have a cool dynamic. Hurley's childlike openness seems to bring out a very honest side of Jack - one that we don't ever get to see. Around Sawyer, Kate, and everyone else, Jack is always very guarded. Here, we get a more personal glimpse into his character as he and Hugo discuss fatherhood, his failed relationship with Kate, and their past together on the island.


Hey, Check It Out - A Humongous Lighthouse!

Jack: "I don't understand... How is it we've never seen it before?"
Hurley: "Guess we weren't looking for it".

Here's a phrase you've heard me say before: "placed into being by requirement". Charlie's guitar, Locke's knives, Jack's sewing kit, Rose's husband, Yemi's crashed plane, the black rock's dynamite, a shitload of heroin, the Swan's washer/dryer, Christian's coffin, the food drop, Sun's pregnancy test, the marshal's Haliburton case, Anthony Cooper, Jacob's cabin, IM chats with Walt, batteries, radios, guns, canoes, explosives, medicine, a spinal surgeon, Aaron himself... and now, a giant stone lighthouse.

The end of LOST is near. Answers are bigger, and they're right in front of our eyes. The reason we never saw the lighthouse until now is because our characters never needed the lighthouse until now. So was it always there? Shoot me, but I say NO.


David Is Jack. (I Know, I'm Pretty Far Out There This Week)

In this new alternate timeline, we've learned that anything goes. By the same token, all throughout LOST we've learned that people are not always what they seem. Put these two things together, and you have my initial thoughts on David, Jack, and the all-important conversation we saw with Dogen.

As Jack approaches the site of his son's piano audition, he passes a sign for the Conservatory that reads "Welcome all candidates". This is because Jack is a candidate. David isn't just an equally gifted reflection of his father... he's an actual representation of Jack himself.

Listen to Dogen talk to Jack about his son David, and how it's unfair that he's under such a tremendous amount of pressure. "It's hard to watch, and not be able to help". This simple statement is one of the fundamental principals of LOST. It's almost as if Jacob is speaking through Dogen here, looking on helplessly but hopefully. Jack and the other candidates are like his children: he can only sit back and watch as they walk their paths in life, unable to do much of anything to help. He can only push or nudge them in the right direction, but he cannot directly interfere.

Dogen's final statement, "How long has he been playing?", is much more than an innocent throwaway line of dialogue. It's a direct reference to just how long LOST's game has gone on, and how many times Jack himself has been through the loop. Iteration after iteration, Jack has been playing damned near forever. Yet perhaps this time through, maybe he's come further than ever before. As the dark man told Sawyer last episode, "it would be a shame to turn back now after coming so far".

David is Jack's direct reflection. To say what's real or unreal is getting irrelevant at this late stage in the game. Suffice it to say that the Jack of this timeline - much like Kate and Locke - is finally learning. My guess is he's gaining the important knowledge needed to go back to the island, where he'll eventually win the war against Flocke and his recruits.

Claire, The Sickness, her Skeletal Baby, and a Very Big Axe
Alright, I'll come clean here and say I totally hate this storyline. I don't know where they're going with the sickness, or why it took until season six to start telling us about it. If the writers never talked about it again, I'd just as well assume the quarantine was designed to keep Desmond or Kelvin in the hatch, pressing the button. But here we have batshit crazy Claire, mocking up a skeletal baby and putting an axe into poor Justin's sternum... so I guess we should probably talk about it.

I would've preferred it if Claire were mute, memory-wiped, or caveman crazy. Instead, she remembers Jin. She remembers Aaron, and she knows her baby is missing. So why, by Tawaret's great nipples, is she keeping a Blair Witch version of Aaron? Either you recognize that your kid has been kidnapped OR you think your kid has a weak appetite and a possum-skull face... but you can't have it both ways. The skeleton thing seemed cheesy and unnecessary, and it turned me totally off.

I guess they're showing us how fully immersed Claire now is in Danielle Rousseau's role. She's hunting, trapping, and killing the Others, all while trying to find out where they're keeping Aaron. She's created a Rousseau-like headquarters, and has adapted some Rousseau-like qualities. Yet considering her agenda, you'd think Claire would be thrilled to see Jin right now. You'd think she'd ask where everyone else is, and how they could help her get her baby back.

But hey, didn't you hear? Claire is CRAYYYZEEEE now.

Important things to take away from this scene: at some point Claire has been captured by the Others, and she was branded. She was probably branded by Dogen, and he did it on her arm. Knowing how Sayid was branded in the same place he got shot, we're left to wonder if Claire herself was wounded in the shoulder. If so, maybe the sickness requires a wound before it can take someone down.

Claire's special friend is also revealed to be Flocke. This puts the dark man back at Jacob's cabin, manifesting himself as Christian Shephard a few seasons ago. Maybe he's responsible for the sickness, or maybe he just used it to his advantage in order to befriend Claire. I'm not sure which it is, but perhaps Sawyer wasn't the dark man's first recruit after all.


Jack's Getting 21 Years Bad Luck

As if there weren't enough reflections this episode, the lighthouse scene was almost a mirror image of the candidate cave. Here, Jack gets pretty much the same reveal that Sawyer did last episode. He finds out that Jacob is ultimately the architect of everyone's time on the island, and that each person is assigned one of the all-too-familiar magic numbers.

Hurley's reaction to all this is none too shocking. He seemed iffy and almost sheepish as Jack asked him when Jacob was going to show up. In short, I think Hurley knew. He knew Jacob wasn't coming, and that he'd most likely tricked Jack up into the lighthouse for some mirror-shattering carnage. Hurley felt bad, and it showed.

Seeing the names listed as degree marks on the lighthouse wheel put Jack in a very angry place, and rightfully so. Time after time, Jack has sought scientific answers when many people around him were demonstrating blind faith. Jack's struggle to champion free will culminated in the detonation of Jughead, and the crushing guilt laid upon him after Juliet's death. Yet now, after all his assertions that things could be changed, it seems as if everything Jack fought for was all for nothing. Someone else had set the deck, and they were responsible for these failures... not him. These were failures Jack had already taken, time and time again, upon his own heavy shoulders.

Jacob's ultimate blueprint for who should live and who should die is spread out before Jack, crossed-off names and everything. As he turns the wheel to number 23, Jack sees the horrible truth: someone else has been tampering with not only the on-island events, but with history itself. We see the church at Sawyer's parents funeral... ... the pagoda where Jin and Sun got married... and eventually, the house where Jack himself grew up. Going all the way back to Boone, here was evidence that every death or loss on the island was part of some other asshole's master plan.

It was interesting to note Kate's name on the wheel, at number 51. Even more interesting, her name was not crossed out. This reinforces my opinion from last recap: that although she's not assigned one of the big six numbers, Kate is still a candidate. In fact, she's a secret candidate, because the dark man knows only about Locke, Reyes, Jarrah, Shephard, Ford, and Kwon.

So who's coming to the island? Who's number 108? The name on the wheel reads Wallace. Before I'd even seen the name, my money was on Desmond. Even afterward, I still like the idea that Desmond is on his way. He'll arrive by boat, just as he did the last time he came to the island, just as the Oceanic six had to return by way of an airplane.

The closing conversation between Jacob and Hurley re-emphasizes how significant Jack is to LOST's overall ending. As Dogen mentioned when speaking about David, Jack has a gift. Jacob sent him to the lighthouse, via Hurley, to understand how incredibly important he is. In Jacob's own words: "Jack is here to do something".

Right now, staring out to sea, Jack still doesn't realize his significance. Jacob can't even sit down to explain it to him. Jack needs to look out over the ocean for a while, before he finally realizes his goal. Yet while he might be spinning his wheels and aimlessly smashing things in the on-island world, LAX_Jack is making definite progress toward bettering himself. In the end, I'm betting that's going to be very, very important.

tessalasset
02-24-2010, 02:31 PM
dammit i want to read that so badly right now but i have to leave.

J~$$$$
02-24-2010, 02:42 PM
Its so good tessa.

I bolded a part to answer Ivy's question/concern about not hearing David play piano.


also, i really couldn't care less about jack's chopin playing kid, as much as i love the imprompteu (which speaking of, did they really need to place a score over chopin???) this is confusing though and makes me wonder how they will reconcile the timelines. jack magically has a son in one timeline and not the other? is it even "his" son or is he a step-dad? seems like his real dad, but you never know with lost. and why was mr. miagi in his past? he's interesting, but i don't really care so much about season 6 characters like him & this new kid, i want to know what's happening with people we've already fucking seen. i agree with tessa that this was a horrible episode all around.

signmeup
02-24-2010, 05:49 PM
so wallace is 108, is he like super special since 4+8+15+16+23+42=108?

chairmenmeow47
02-24-2010, 07:07 PM
thanks, J$$$

i totally noticed locke's alarm clock, glad he mentioned that. I MISSED THE MACHUTCHENS THOUGH!

kate saying for jack to just do whatever he wants seemed to be passive aggressive.

the david being a reflection of jack thing might make sense cause wasn't jack playing the piano in one of the othertown houses in an episode?

i also thought desmond was 108. is penny still desmond's constant?

p.s. apparently vozzek is making flocke happen as well, blink!!!

fikus222
02-24-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm loving how since this is the last season of LOST, its tangents are truncated, which means my 'gimmee' urge continues to be satisfied and the characters do what they are 'supposed' to do sooner ;)

faxman75
02-25-2010, 09:03 AM
It drove me bat shit crazy that Jin didn't remind Claire or explain why Kate had Claire's baby. She's all grrrr I would kill her if she took my baby and Jin is all.....uh oh. All he had to say was why would you want to do that, you were gone and no one was left to care for Aaron? Argh.

Leeartlee
02-25-2010, 09:17 AM
Its so good tessa.

I bolded a part to answer Ivy's question/concern about not hearing David play piano.

Where do you get this from?

chairmenmeow47
02-25-2010, 09:21 AM
It drove me bat shit crazy that Jin didn't remind Claire or explain why Kate had Claire's baby. She's all grrrr I would kill her if she took my baby and Jin is all.....uh oh. All he had to say was why would you want to do that, you were gone and no one was left to care for Aaron? Argh.

i can see why you had problems with your crazy ex. you're trying to reason with crazy, it doesn't work.

faxman75
02-25-2010, 09:49 AM
Spot on Ivy. Excellent point. I seem to think if you make the crazy say the crazy then they hear it themselves for the first time and realize how irrational they are acting.

I love the blog entries J$ has posted in this thread.

Leeartlee
02-25-2010, 09:55 AM
Does anyone know whose blog it is? I see it's by Vozzek69 but I can't seem to find it...

faxman75
02-25-2010, 10:14 AM
http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/02/things-i-noticed-la-x-by-vozzek69.html

J~$$$$
02-25-2010, 10:21 AM
http://www.thingsinoticed.com/

Leeartlee
02-25-2010, 10:24 AM
Awesome, thanks

atom heart
02-25-2010, 01:00 PM
Probably the happiest anyone ever got over a little kid getting shot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/verabee/4365518957/in/set-72157623331185383/)
Foggy memories of LOST cartoons by Vera

digitaldragon03
02-25-2010, 01:54 PM
Probably the happiest anyone ever got over a little kid getting shot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/verabee/4365518957/in/set-72157623331185383/)
Foggy memories of LOST cartoons by Vera
By an Iraqi Republican Guard torturer no less. Im still surprised that ever made it to TV.

Blinken
02-25-2010, 05:31 PM
I believe that it was already mentioned what Dogan said to Hurley, but here is the video of the translation. It is worth watching just for the end.

vTAbgZI3_C4

atom heart
02-27-2010, 04:19 PM
Weird. This interviewer for GQ's blog had the same thought I did:

There's a great new gag clip of you petitioning the showrunners for a more robust love life for Ben. Do you think Ben is a virgin?
[pause] Wow. In the days when it looked like he had warm feelings for Juliet, I did give some thought to his experience or inexperience in romance... [pause] Wow! I don't know. If he is...experienced...who would it have been with? And where? And how? It's a possibility—it might go a long way toward explaining his personality, if he is a virgin.

This the gag clip (http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/02/lost-slapdown-videos.html#more), third down.

http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-q/2010/02/a-half-hour-with-losts-most-compelling-living-character.html

Monklish
02-27-2010, 05:36 PM
Michael Emerson on The Soup = pretty funny.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/127866/the-soup-michael-emerson#s-p2-sr-i0

thestripe
03-02-2010, 09:25 AM
Pumped. I'm even going to watch the re-run episode before the new one. I never do that.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 04:40 PM
So I had kind of an interesting thought last week that probably the rest of you have had as well, but I like it because it points out how the writers give thought into themeing each season.

J-$$$ made some comment about how "The Lighthouse" was the name of last week's episode and the next station. Well, as we all saw, it clearly wasn't a Dharma station. But that's kinda how this season is going--whereas in Season 2 we learned about Dharma and got introduced to several of the Dharma stations (more came later of course), and then in Season 3 and 4 we learned about The Others and the Dharma stations they'd taken over, in this season we're learning about the mystical "stations" of the island.

We've seen inside The Temple, The Lighthouse, The Cave, and it will progress so on.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 05:41 PM
Watching the re-run eps. Of the lighthouse made me realize it was a great episode and how in depth this show is. The talk of mirror images of ones self and how the sideways timelines is each charecter finding themselves and thier importance. It a trip into ones mind and how Alice in wonderland and the looking glass play such a huge role I can't wait until this show is over and I can start all over again from the beginning.

When Jack goes to find David at his house it's the lighthouse and the key is under the white rabbit, and when he goes to see David and finds out he's a cannidate and is told his good enough to be choosen mirrors the on island seen.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:02 PM
CHECK OUT THAT GANGSTA ASS LOCKE WALK. GODDAMN.

So glad this is a full length season again. Still ten more episodes AND a two hour finale left? Awesome.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:08 PM
So were the Lockemonster's group of people made up of peeps he had just devoured and killed? Also, this promise to Sayed of being able to have anything he wished for... Ben did that to Locke in an early season with that room where his father was tied to a chair. It'll be interesting to see how those two facts intertwine. Then there was the guy who was the head military guy during the seige on the Island by Penny's dad who appeared in Sayed's flash sideways story... That just makes me wonder what the point of that entire story line was now because back then Penny's dad was such a huge part of why the Island was there.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:09 PM
... Well, always good to hear from somebody who hasn't been paying much attention.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:13 PM
I don't get what you're saying.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 06:14 PM
So were the Lockemonster's group of people made up of peeps he had just devoured and killed? Also, this promise to Sayed of being able to have anything he wished for... Ben did that to Locke in an early season with that room where his father was tied to a chair. It'll be interesting to see how those two facts intertwine. Then there was the guy who was the head military guy during the seige on the Island by Penny's dad who appeared in Sayed's flash sideways story... That just makes me wonder what the point of that entire story line was now because back then Penny's dad was such a huge part of why the Island was there.

great points. what else did you uncover this week? you should post more in this thread.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:15 PM
I honestly don't know why you are all making fun of me. These are all questions that only came up in this week's episode that finished 15 minutes ago. Instead of being a snooty know it all, why not just answer my questions.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:15 PM
Snarf.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:17 PM
I think the reason we're making fun of you is that you're pointing out INSANELY obvious things and asking really dumb questions.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:18 PM
I find it hard to believe that any of you have been spending time contemplating the importance of the macho army guy who was killed in the siege a few seasons ago, and I find it hard to believe many of you even remembered that happened while trying to figure out the end game of the LOST story.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:19 PM
I think the reason we're making fun of you is that you're pointing out INSANELY obvious things and asking really dumb questions.

I just want to know if the Lockemonster's group were the people who were just in the temple. I honestly can't remember if they were the people who left before the attack or were there when it happened. A simple "Yes, the Lockemonster just killed them and now somehow they're back alive and joining him" would do!

ShyGuy75
03-02-2010, 06:19 PM
So were the Lockemonster's group of people made up of peeps he had just devoured and killed?

its even funnier the second time

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:20 PM
Remember the part where UnLocke had Sayid go into the temple and say "everyone who leaves and joins me will get to live, and everyone who doesn't will die?" And then all those people were leaving? And then all the people that stayed got killed by the smoke monster?

Figure it out.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Stop being fucking stupid queeny dumbfucks.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:22 PM
Oh okay, well I thought the stout asian looking man with the gun got tossed around and killed by the Lockemonster and didn't leave the temple before the attack but I guess I wasn't keeping track that he left. Sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry...

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 06:24 PM
Stop being fucking stupid queeny dumbfucks.

How am I being stupid? I'm just asking a question. Maybe you should have courtesy and just answer them and then I'll be on my merry way. It was a simple yes/no answer.

J~$$$$
03-02-2010, 06:28 PM
Fuck off, yes.

atom heart
03-02-2010, 06:50 PM
I'd say if we were posting in the LOST thread we would probably remember Keamy.

I call blatant false advertising on "questions will be answered". What exactly was made slightly more clear? Oh, Sayid is evil. Also Dogen (RIP) said that Smokey was evil. Everyone is now sporting the evil eye. On the other hand, I'm not convinced of the whole evil thing in general, and if it does turn out that cut and dried I'll be disappointed.

Random observation: all of the (former) Temple Others are wearing red.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:55 PM
I think that the "questions will be answered" is probably just going to be a standard thing for previews this season. At least I can remember hearing it several other times thus far.

The preview for next week was interesting. Fucking Ben had better not die.

atom heart
03-02-2010, 06:58 PM
seriously. Though, I would be cool with him dying if he gets to do something super badass and semi-redemptive on his part (which is probably the best he'll get, and also the most likely). Also, even if he did die, there would still be peevish European History teacher Ben, for what it's worth.

Monklish
03-02-2010, 06:59 PM
I've been a little annoyed at how under-utilized he's been. He's still the show's best character by far. I'm waiting for Widmore to come back into the scene and then he should get more involved.

chairmenmeow47
03-02-2010, 07:13 PM
i'm so done with sayid & claire.

keamy was a pleasant surprise.

what was jacob putting in the water last week?

why was dogen being alive the only thing protecting the temple. what about the ring of ash?

i like that miles finally told sayid what really happened. and that he told sun about jin.

why must smokey be stabbed before he speaks? or does that even matter? did dogen just assume sayid would be manipulated?

BEN'S DEMISE?!??!??!?!??!?!??!

Somewhat Damaged
03-02-2010, 07:29 PM
I think they want us to think that Ben's the one who's going to die next week when in fact it's going to be Sayid. I mean, why the fuck else would they so flagrantly telegraph a major event like the death of one of the show's biggest villains? Just seems like something they'd want to have surprise the audience.

Queenie Cupcakes
03-02-2010, 08:21 PM
I think they want us to think that Ben's the one who's going to die next week when in fact it's going to be Sayid. I mean, why the fuck else would they so flagrantly telegraph a major event like the death of one of the show's biggest villains? Just seems like something they'd want to have surprise the audience.

They kinda did that before with Ben during the whole Judgement Day episode previews. It only just makes you think he'll stay alive when next week's episode is over.

Sexecutioner
03-02-2010, 09:20 PM
regarding ben, they dont say it will be his demise, they say he will face his demise. maybe its not the same thing? dont know...

GrossMagic
03-02-2010, 09:36 PM
regarding ben, they dont say it will be his demise, they say he will face his demise. maybe its not the same thing? dont know...

He will face smokey which will ultimately be his demise during one of the last episodes.

VicVinegar
03-02-2010, 10:02 PM
Just when I thought I was over Kate as a character this episode really got me interested again. She's not one of the 'special' numbers which would make sense why Locke looked at her funny at the end of the ep, like he didn't recognize her or didn't expect her. It also reinforces this from darkufo:


It was interesting to note Kate's name on the wheel, at number 51. Even more interesting, her name was not crossed out. This reinforces my opinion from last recap: that although she's not assigned one of the big six numbers, Kate is still a candidate. In fact, she's a secret candidate, because the dark man knows only about Locke, Reyes, Jarrah, Shephard, Ford, and Kwon.

It also reminds me of what Jacob told her when he met her as a little girl: "Be good, Katie." Like he knows she's the x-factor and could go either way. And with all the mirror imagery I wonder if her being number 51 and Sawyer being number 15 has anything to do with it.

GeezrRckr
03-02-2010, 10:29 PM
unLocke rules.

Blinken
03-02-2010, 11:11 PM
Yes Randy, they have said "Questions will be answered," in every preview this season. UnLocke is much better than flocke, so I guess Ivy wins and I won't use it anymore.

Good point Vic on the Mirror numbers with Sawyer and Kate, speaking of which were has he been? Sawyer has been missing for the past two episodes. Maybe he is watching Jin right now but I don't think he would keep Jin hostage. Afterall they have lived together for the last 3 years.

I didn't think Dogan and Lennon where going to both die so soon. I was hoping that would be providing more answers to everyone. It might be worth noting that both of there bodies were in the pool. If it really is important how bodies are disposed of this might come back.

I think we will get another Sayid flash so he isn't going to die yet. So much left unanswered in his flash. What was his job that sends him all over the world? I don't believe for a second that he just reads and translates oil contracts. Is he still a hitman? It seemed like he was trying to redeem himself until he was with Keamy(really Queenie you thought that we didn't see that?), maybe he has accepted his roll in the world and that he truely doesn't deserve Nadia because he still isn't a good person. Also not to mention what happens with Jin now that Sayid found him locked up.

GeezrRckr
03-02-2010, 11:33 PM
better lay off queenie or she'll call in PF again.

tessalasset
03-02-2010, 11:49 PM
She reported several of the posts in here. Queenie, you're like the kid in elementary school who ruins it for all the rest of the kids cause you immediately tell your parents if anything bad happens to you instead of sticking up for yourself and growing a spine.

That's a little too harsh for what I'm trying to say. I guess the bottom line is, did you think it was really necessary to report anything going on in this thread? I came in here to see and said out loud to myself "oh you've got to be kidding me."

Stick up for yourself, and if you realize you said something dumb, admit it. Or if you really don't think you asked something dumb, go ask it again on a Lost message board and see how badly you get it. This wasn't bad at all.

tessalasset
03-02-2010, 11:51 PM
I call blatant false advertising on "questions will be answered". What exactly was made slightly more clear?

All I could think of with my friend is that they actually spelled it out for once that Locke's body was taken over by Jacob's nemesis. I mean they showed it with him turning into smokey, but I don't think they ever blatantly said "yes, this is what happened to him." They just made us assume all this time. Isn't that right?

Astrid
03-03-2010, 01:45 AM
i really enjoyed this episode.

i hope next week will be a jin episode. im curious to see how he went from lax interrogation to a freezer. also where the fuck is desmond? and richard? i miss them.

i found this theory on lostpedia to be of interest:

Nemesis' Offer = the Flash-sideways timeline

Theory: The characters' lives are different in the Flash-sideways timeline because MIB has made promises with each of them saying they can have whatever they want.

Evidence: So far, we have seen Nemesis offer that:

1. Claire will have her baby
2. Sayid will ensure that Nadia lives
3. Sawyer will get off the Island

In the Flash-sideways timeline, we have seen that these people are getting just that, however this might come with a huge price tag. In Sayid's case, Nadia will still be alive, but this is bought at at great personal cost to Sayid.

* We have also seen other examples from the FST of the Losties 'getting what they want':
1. Kate wants to be free, which she accomplishes in 'What Kate Does' by escaping Edward Marrs' custody.
2. Locke wants to be with Helen and have a normal relationship with his father.
3. Jack wants to get over the issues he had with his father and how his father raised him. He does so in 'Lighthouse' by giving his son David the support he wished Christian had given him.
4. Hurley wants to be able to help all of his friends and loved ones find happiness. He helps Locke (and possibly Rose as well) find their 'true calling' job-wise in 'The Substitute.'

* All of this can be explained if the flash-sideways timeline is the creation of the MiB. It is an 'alternate universe', a fantasy creation. It could be simply a mass hallucination, a computer simulation, or a step sideways into another reality, where people are 'touched by Nemesis', instead of being 'touched by Jacob'. Whatever is the case, the FST is a re-engineering of reality by the Nemesis to give his followers what they desire, in exchange for allegiance to him.

* This opens up the following possibilities:
1. Desmond - who has been seen to have mentally traveled through time at some points - may have the power to intervene or interact with the flash-sideways timeline.
2. Walt - who was considered "special" by many and mysteriously appeared at different points on the island - may also have this power.
3. That in Season 1 Locke saw that this was the ultimate outcome of the on-island events when he confronted the Smoke Monster and claimed to have seen "the soul of the island" which was "beautiful."

i812many
03-03-2010, 04:33 AM
After I saw Jack walking by Sayid in the hospital I started looking for Kate or Claire in the background somewhere.

atom heart
03-03-2010, 04:48 AM
All I could think of with my friend is that they actually spelled it out for once that Locke's body was taken over by Jacob's nemesis. I mean they showed it with him turning into smokey, but I don't think they ever blatantly said "yes, this is what happened to him." They just made us assume all this time. Isn't that right?

I think the Locke-Smokey connection was made pretty damn clear when he apologized to Ben for his appearance in the second episode.

Richard had been trying to get to the Temple when he met Sawyer, but I think if he had been killed in the melee they would have panned over him at least. Smokey barrelling through the Temple like a freight train was pretty awesome-- on the other hand why does he feel like everyone who doesn't agree with him has to die? Does everyone need to be dead for him to leave? Does he need some unanimous decision or something? Kill off the competition?

Queenie Cupcakes
03-03-2010, 06:20 AM
It seemed like he was trying to redeem himself until he was with Keamy(really Queenie you thought that we didn't see that?)

You're telling me that everyone here was anticipating Keamy to appear as a hitman in a flash-sideways with Sayid all this time? I know he was a hired gun a few seasons back but don't go telling me you all knew he was destined to appear in this episode as part of Sayid's flash sideways lol :rolleyes

Also to whoever pointed out that that the flash sideways universe is what life is like for the characters getting whatever it is they want from the Man in Black, its probably safe to say Dogon's son never gets killed in a car accident.

chairmenmeow47
03-03-2010, 06:30 AM
i have queenie on ignore, what happened? did she post someone else's tits again to get lost spoilers or something?

captncrzy
03-03-2010, 06:34 AM
Haha Queenie tattled on Justin and Randy for calling her an idiot?

Goddamn, what are you, 12? First you whine that your contest idea was stolen, and now this? Grow up you stupid bitch.

Edit-Ivy, I have her worthless ass on ignore too

captncrzy
03-03-2010, 06:38 AM
that MiB thing is interesting; but how would Locke be alive to tell MiB what he wanted in the first place?

thestripe
03-03-2010, 07:13 AM
I'd be happy to see Ben slowly slip into madness. He's still prancing around acting like he didn't kill Jacob. Dudes time has come.

Where the fuck is Sawyer? Srsly.

I think it's cool that Sayid finally chose a side. I was holding out hope that they guy would right his wrongs, but at this point I like him Waaayy more than Clair in the bad guy role.

Blinken
03-03-2010, 07:17 AM
that MiB thing is interesting; but how would Locke be alive to tell MiB what he wanted in the first place?

Well since MiB knows all of Locke's memories it is safe to assume that he would know what Locke wanted as well.

captncrzy
03-03-2010, 07:43 AM
I guess that's a good point about MiB knowing Locke's memories.

Cancersticks1
03-03-2010, 07:47 AM
You're telling me that everyone here was anticipating Keamy to appear as a hitman in a flash-sideways with Sayid all this time? I know he was a hired gun a few seasons back but don't go telling me you all knew he was destined to appear in this episode as part of Sayid's flash sideways lol :rolleyes

Also to whoever pointed out that that the flash sideways universe is what life is like for the characters getting whatever it is they want from the Man in Black, its probably safe to say Dogon's son never gets killed in a car accident.

*Sigh* We already saw Dogens son in the sideways timeline.

Cancersticks1
03-03-2010, 07:51 AM
The whole "questions will be answered" thing immediately made me think of the episode about Jack's tattoos, and how they promised that three of the biggest Lost mysteries would be solved.

I really like the theory that the sideways timeline is Unlockes "Bedazzled" universe, but wouldn't that put Kate in a permanent state of Jack/Sawyer fingercuffs?

chairmenmeow47
03-03-2010, 08:26 AM
I'd be happy to see Ben slowly slip into madness. He's still prancing around acting like he didn't kill

i totally agree. whether he actually dies next week or not, i want to see ben get his comeuppances (is that really the right way to spell that?).

Queenie Cupcakes
03-03-2010, 08:53 AM
*Sigh* We already saw Dogens son in the sideways timeline.

...which is why I pointed it out so that it could be added to the list of evidence in support of the theory that the alt universe is where the characters get what they want the most. While we saw the son last week, we didn't know until this week his he was killed in a car accident and otherwise shouldn't be alive. Get why I said that, or do you all want to continue that you know everything about the world and Lost and every band that makes music that plays Coachella like you continue to do with your sad lives while everyone else is dumb and doesn't know anything?

Cancersticks1
03-03-2010, 09:10 AM
...which is why I pointed it out so that it could be added to the list of evidence in support of the theory that the alt universe is where the characters get what they want the most. While we saw the son last week, we didn't know until this week his he was killed in a car accident and otherwise shouldn't be alive. Get why I said that, or do you all want to continue that you know everything about the world and Lost and every band that makes music that plays Coachella like you continue to do with your sad lives while everyone else is dumb and doesn't know anything?

Well that was some presumptuous bullshit. You may want to look back and reconsider which of us is being an ass here. No one has implied they knew everything about Lost, and the music thing is so out of left field it makes my head spin. What's irritating everyone here is how little credit you're giving people who regularly post in the Lost thread. Yes, we all noticed Keamy, no pretense or superior knowledge necessary. Yes, we all realize that Dogens redemptive issue is his son, he just said that, and we saw his son one episode ago. If you've only ever seen the last two episodes, or even just this episode of the show EVER, this conclusion is very, very, obvious.

psychic friend
03-03-2010, 09:16 AM
hello people, if you think someone is being mean by calling you names, please use the ignore feature. then you dont need to read their crap ok?

http://www.zachryhorn.com/ignore.jpg

captncrzy
03-03-2010, 09:18 AM
SNAG IT, BITCHES!

Cancersticks1
03-03-2010, 09:19 AM
Thing of beauty.

jimmycrackcorn
03-03-2010, 09:22 AM
http://www.zachryhorn.com/ignore.jpg

:thu

Cancersticks1
03-03-2010, 09:24 AM
Anyway, back on topic. Show of hands that Jacob comes back in the form of Vincent and his battle with Unlocke mirrors the Three Wolf Moon Shirt. Anybody?

GeezrRckr
03-03-2010, 09:54 AM
hello people, if you think someone is being mean by calling you names, please use the ignore feature. then you dont need to read their crap ok?

(but, seriously, using Monk for that = priceless)

psychic friend
03-03-2010, 10:10 AM
If the above post offends you, you should follow the directions.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 10:21 AM
DO NOT RUIN LOST THREAD!

invisiblerobots
03-03-2010, 10:29 AM
Baseballs have 108 double stitches! Coincidence? I think not. Those writers think of everything.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Baseballs have 108 double stitches! Coincidence? I think not. Those writers think of everything.

no way. I love this show.

thestripe
03-03-2010, 11:03 AM
That's just crazy. Crazy.

captncrzy
03-03-2010, 11:06 AM
hahaha holy shit about the baseball stitches. No stone left unturned.

tessalasset
03-03-2010, 12:16 PM
Queenie - I like you. You hooked me up in chat that one time. Just please try to stand up for yourself on your own and stop reporting these posts. They're not getting deleted. You should know by now you need to have a somewhat strong stomach to make it on this board.

thestripe
03-03-2010, 12:28 PM
Stop defending tards, Tessa. Queenie, it would benefit you to post less and read more. Just say'n.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 12:39 PM
Stop defending tards, Tessa. Queenie, it would benefit you to post less and read more. Just say'n.

That sounds angry......





flagged.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 12:42 PM
yes! here we go bitches,(not you cupcake)





Things I Noticed - "Sundown" by Vozzek69
Posted by DarkUFO at 3/03/2010 08:46:00 PM View Comments
Labels: Recaps, Sundown, Vozzek69
Bookmark and Share

THINGS I NOTICED - SUNDOWN

In stark contrast to last week's calm journey, this episode brought down the hammer and smashed much of what was built over the last six episodes into oblivion. Sundown also saw the demise of one of the most popular and awesome of all characters: Sayid. But hey, don't get too emotional. Week by week the sun is setting on LOST, and in order to have some finality we need to see the explosive end of certain things: the styrofoam temple included. Things I Noticed:


Yellow Roses? C'mon... You NEVER Buy a Chick Yellow Roses!

What could possibly be Sayid's last centric episode started, predictibly enough, with a Nadia reunion. This time around however, we find out that as a couple, Sayid and Nadia just weren't meant to be. Yellow roses, unanswered letters, and nauseating amounts of self-sacrifice have pushed goody-two-shoes Sayid so far away that not even a love forged in the smoldering cauldron of an Iraqi torture chamber could bring them back together again.

Take a good look at Sayid's reflection in the glass as he waits for Nadia to answer the door. Half his face is visible, but the other half falls into the darkness of a different reflection. This light/dark imagry is a direct reference to the growing darkness that is right now consuming Sayid on the island. Although we've seen flashes of memory or apparent recollections from various LAX characters, this is the first time we've seen a direct parallel to island events actually affecting the off-island timeline. More on that later, when Keamy makes some awesome eggs.


Go Into My Bag, Just Past the Automatic Pistol and Cyanide Capsules...

The boomeraangs that Sayid gives to his niece and nephew are perfect metaphors for LOST itself: each throw following the same path and returning to the point of origin. At least in theory, anyway. Every time I've ever thrown a boomeraang it's ended up 50 yards away stuck in the ground.


Sayid and Dogen Bust Up the Bonsai Shop

While the fight between Dogen and Sayid was pretty epic, I was a little disappointed when Sayid didn't win. Then again, by this time we weren't watching 100% Sayid either. Small flashes of a darker, more sinister version of Sayid kept pushing their way through - something that Dogen immediately recognized during their brief conversation.

"I think it would be best if you were dead" was Dogen's way of testing Sayid, to see if he really had his friends' best interests at heart. Old Sayid would've recognized himself as a danger to everyone and walked away from the temple. In fact, Sayid did this exact thing back in season one during Solitary after torturing Sawyer and declaring himself a hazard to the beach camp. New Sayid however does the opposite - he ignores Dogens words and still wants to hang around.

"You think you know me but you don't" is once again something Sayid has said many times before... but then he slips up by telling Dogen "I'm a good man". At this point in his life, the real Sayid would never try to convince someone that he's a good man - especially after confessing to Hurley on his deathbed about how he's done so many terrible things. This is where Dogen smirks; Sayid's words are indicitive of him being corrupted, and he knows he has to act quickly before the Iraqi is fully claimed. Next stop? A swift rabbit punch to the solar plexus.

As per the rules however, Dogen can't kill Sayid. Instead, the fight was initiated as a way to scare him off or get him out of the temple. Maybe Dogen was trying to put him to sleep with that Vulcan neck pinch, I don't really know. But as he finally does get the upper hand, the baseball rolling off that table was Jacob's subtle way of reminding Dogen of his promise, and that harming a candidate was out of the question.


Evil Incarnate Never Lies

Claire seems a little apprehensive about going into the temple, but presses on after receiving Flocke's solemn promise that he'll get Aaron back for her. This might be the MIB's first mistake, because I can definitely see Claire going axe-crazy once she finds out that her baby's not even on the island at all. Maybe.

"I always do what I say"... these words seemed pretty genuine, even coming from the man in black. Through all the deception he used to get Ben to kill Jacob, there was also a sort of direct honesty to Flocke's character all last season. He told Richard exactly where they were going, and he told Ben who was going to kill Jacob even before he got there. Maybe on some level he's honor-bound, but more likely the dark man is still following some version of the rules. Either way, his promise to deliver Claire's baby to her had me thinking that maybe he can keep his word. If Aaron is exactly where he's "supposed to be", maybe the MIB tucked him away safely at smoke monster day care before the Oceanic Six ever left the island in that chopper with FAaron.


The LAX Timeline... Turning Over a New Leaf Since 2010

Sayid is trying to be a good man in the new timeline. His brother using Nadia as leverage to solve his financial problems outright disgusts him, and Sayid flat out refuses to kick his normal quota of ass this episode. "I'm not that man anymore", he tells his brother, and this time Sayid really, really means it.

As I mentioned last week, the alternate timeline seems to be a place for correction. It's a realm where our characters can break their cycles of bad behavior and move forward with hope a different outcome. Here, halfway through this episode, it would appear as if LAX_Sayid is following the same pattern as LAX Kate, Locke, and Jack. We see Sayid turning over a new leaf... at least up until later on, when Keamy places Sayid at gunpoint and fries himself a nice pair of sunny-side up.


Three Years In The Jungle With No Soap or Deodorant... But Miles Would Still Hit That

In one of Sayid's 'good' moments, Miles informs him of the manner of his death. This gets Sayid to reexamine the situation, and he begins to realize that Dogen may be right. If he's already on the road to darkness, the good part of Sayid knows it would be dangerous for everyone if he stuck around any longer. Yet before he can leave, Claire's arrival results in a second meeting with Dogen.

Claire was much cooler this episode than she was during Lighthouse. She seemed more evil and less kooky. I loved the way she demanded that Dogen speak English, and got him to immediately comply. And once more, the opportunity to finally name the man in black is provided... but Claire refers to him only as "you know who". Check the end of the podcast I did last week with The ODI and Jeff Jensen for a really cool theory on why we haven't learned the MIB's name yet, and probably never will.


That's Not a Knife... Now That's a Knife

Dogen's ancient blade of death rocked the bonsai shop, and for a minute I thought Sayid might have a chance against the MIB. As he handed it over, it also occured to me that this is probably the 2,473rd time somebody has asked Sayid to kill someone.

"He will come to you as someone you know... someone who has died." WOW. This kind of information would've been pretty fucking useful last season, no? Dogen's intel on the dark man's operation is a thousand times better than Ben or Richard's. You'd think if they're sharing personnel with the barracks crew that Dogen could somehow educate his allies against what looks to be the island's greatest potential enemy. Instead, he keeps that knowledge to himself and hides ancient mystic weaponry in the soil of common houseplants. Not a smart move.

Dogen appeals to the last remaining good within Sayid, sending him on an unlikely suicide mission. Is he just trying to get Sayid to willingly leave the temple? Sure, but I also got the impression that if Sayid had struck John Locke before he had the chance to speak, Dogen's plan would've probably worked. In other words, I don't think Dogen was sending Sayid off to get killed here. Not without a shot at redemption, anyway.

Another important exchange occurs when Dogen tells Sayid that the dark man was imprisoned for several years. This suggests that the MIB was most likely the person Locke and Ben saw in Jacob's cabin, and that this person was trapped by the ash instead of protected. Stuck in the cabin, maybe the MIB/smoke monster was still able to operate but his powers had limitations... explaining why we didn't see so much of him at first. Once the ash was broken perhaps those restrictions were lifted, because that's when things got a little more nuts.


Nadia... Cute Iraqi Chick or Secret Agent of Free Will?

Nadia's necklace this episode consisted of a circle within a circle. It struck me that maybe this represented the alternate timeline being a subset of the larger story we've been watching for these past five years. Each would be without a beginning or an end, which of course would be very LOST-ish.

More references to the season one episode Solitary sprang up here, as Nadia tells Sayid: "Whatever you're thinking of doing... don't do it". LAX_Nadia wants Sayid to stay pure in this timeline, almost as if she somehow knows he's about to be corrupted. Actually, she's one of the first people to try and steer Sayid on the right path. Back in season one, when he first got his job/promotion to torturer, Nadia went out of her way to let Sayid know he was "pretending" and that this new person wasn't who he really was. All throughout LOST we've seen Sayid struggle against his role of assassin and killer, trying not to play this particularly bad role but always getting sucked back into it.


Now Why'd You Go And Do That?

Don't ignore the fact that Smokey/MIB's arrival is preceded by Sayid stopping, drinking some water, and then splashing more water on the back of his neck. Not gonna beat on the dead water horse here, but I'm just sayin'.

The faces Terry O'Quinn comes up with for these MIB scenes are absolutely incredible. He goes from looking automaton-ish (when stabbed) to confused (seeing the knife), disgusted (when Sayid repeats Dogen's words about him being 'evil incarnate'), and finally gives Sayid a look of persuasive wonderment while promising him "anything you want". It's easy to see that the MIB doesn't see himself as evil or wrong, but more along the lines of being constantly misconstrued. In his eyes, he's gotten a bad reputation from Jacob's people - one that's completely unfounded and unwarranted.

Flocke offers Sayid's knife back to him, an offer that Sayid accepts. I'm not sure if this sealed the deal for Sayid, but it definitely lined him up for the dark man's sales pitch. He expertly turns the Dogen situation around, easily convincing a half-dark Sayid that this is the 2nd time Dogen has tried to kill him. He ices the cake nicely with a "shame on you" before putting the cherry on top: Sayid can have whatever it is that his little heart desires. Yes, even Nadia. 'Dead' is rapidly losing credibility around here.

In all likelihood, the dark man is referring to the island's "magic box". We've seen anything and everything appear on the island, from pregnancy tests to dynamite... from Anthony Cooper to Amira's cat. Taking the MIB at his word, maybe he can provide some sort of holodeck fantasy for Sayid by Xeroxing a nice juicy copy of Nadia for him. Or maybe he's just bullshitting Sayid into delivering his message and emptying the temple. Or maybe you guys still don't believe there's a magic box at all. Pick one.


Gimmie Evil Claire Over Crazy Claire Any Day Of The Week

Few things in LOST will be remembered as creepier than Claire's haunting rendition of "catch a falling star" here at the Silence of the Lambs pit. Even better were her final words to Kate: "He's coming Kate... He's coming and you can't stop him!" Simply awesome.

Kate's reunion with Aaron's true mother didn't go exactly as she planned, and it doesn't appear as if she'll be getting any babysitting money. The point of this scene was to set up Claire's venomous "Katred" for the woman who took her baby away, a crazed loathing that will undoubtedly dominate any future Claire scenes to come. Do you smell a catfight? Hell yeah you do.


We Had An Unfortunate Incident Involving a Boomerrang

In lots of ways, this pretty much explains the sum total of LOST. (Cue moment of silence). Okay, let's continue.


You Can't Make an Omelette Without Emptying a Clip Into Someone's Chest

Hell yeah, it was great to see Keamy again. "I make good eggs!" has to go down as one of the best out-of-left-field LOST lines since Fake Henry Gale asked "You guys got any milk?"

The kitchen where Keamy is cooking up such a fantastic breakfast instantly reminded me of Miles meeting Naomi in a similar kitchen in Some Like It Hoth. I've looked at some screencaps and it's difficult to tell, so maybe someone else can verify or discredit the similarity.

LAX_Martin Keamy is every bit the same awesome character he was on the island during season four. Omar is every bit his lackey, too. These are the constants, at least in this alternate version of events. The variable here however, is Sayid.

As I said earlier, we've seen characters like LAX Jack and Kate 'remember' or somewhat be affected by what may have happened on the island. Here though, we see the opposite: LAX_Sayid is directly affected by what's going on in the island timeline... namely, his metamorphisis from good to evil.

Alternate Sayid is the nice guy, the pacifist, the man who wants to solve his brother's crisis diplomatically. Without thinking his reflexes take over, and he's forced to shoot Keamy's men. Letting Keamy go would've been easy at this point, especially considering what Sayid has told Nadia (and his brother) about being an entirely different person. Yet on the island, Sayid's internal pendulum is swinging over into darker, more evil territory. This rubs off on LAX_Sayid, causing him to shoot Keamy in cold blood.

And so right here and now, Sayid breaks our 3-episode long tradition of people being able to change. He's still the assassin, and he gets claimed by the MIB both on the island and off. Sayid is unable break the circle of violence that causes him to kill and destroy - he gives in to who he "really" is, and is not able to shatter the mold.

What all this means is uncertain. Up until now, our LAX characters have all been setting up some happy endings, which is why people have theorized that this new timeline might be the true "end" one. Yet here we have a much darker version of off-island Sayid - one with an itchy trigger finger and a soul mate who married his brother a decade ago. I'm not sure how that can play out to a happy ending, but then again, Sayid was never really lucky in love.


Cold Storage

I have absolutely NO CLUE what Jin's doing in Keamy's meat locker, but I will say this: this is the second time we've seen Jin in a walk-in fridge (Everyone Hates Hugo). Actually, this is the second time we've seen Sayid in one too (Enter 77). If anyone has any walk-in fridge theories, I'm open to them.



Jacob The Imaginary Guy We've Never Seen Before Is DEAD? Screw It, I'm Going Home

Similar to when Jack stared into it last episode, Dogen's reflecting pool is distorted by droplets of rain. His plans for protection have rapidly failed. The candidates have walked in and out of the place like a college frathouse, and his temple is emptying faster than a Mariah Carey concert. Thanks to Sayid's speech, shit has hit the fan.

Flocke has finally tricked Dogen's people into leaving him. He's done this by stating simple fact (that Jacob is dead), and then allowing each of the temple-dwellers to make their own choice. He promised Claire to hurt only the ones who defied him, and the dark man keeps this promise. By using Claire and Sayid as emissaries, Flocke has hamstrung Dogen's army and finally conquered the Other's one last stronghold - all without firing a single shot.

The coup de grāce involves Sayid putting Dogen out of his misery, and as we can all see, it certainly was misery. What happened to get Dogen to the island is one of the saddest tales in all of LOST, and it made me look at Jacob in an all new light. After all, promising to save one's son but then telling that person they can never see their child again is pretty much stretching the limits of cruelty.

Jacob's offer is exactly the same as Ben's promise back in season three. Made ironically enough under the pretense of "Jacob's word", Ben promised to cure Juliet's sister's cancer if she herself were to stay on the island. Stuck there, unable to leave, Juliet was miserable from that point forward... just as Dogen was miserable throughout his duty as stoic temple leader. His baseball was the only thing he had left to remember his son, and his only tie to the off-island life he once led.

Jacob's ability to make things right in the 'real world' via miracles which couldn't happen on island seems more than a bit fishy to me. What's real and unreal may be nothing more than a blind promise you can never check up on, or a 2-minute video showing your sister pushing your nephew on a swing. Jacob's method of recruiting people is the basest form of blackmail, almost like making a deal with the devil. As Fayid (sadly by this point he's no longer our Sayid) says, speaking through the MIB's mouth: "Jacob drives a hard bargain".

The fact that Dogen is drowned in the brown Jacob-water... does this mean he'll come back like Sayid did? If so, will he be 'claimed' immediately or will he have moments of clarity first where he'll be able to help team Jacob before being converted? These things are hard to say. But for poor Lennon who can now smile using his neck, it's safe to assume it's pretty much the end.


Into The Garbage Chute, Fly Boy!

I've finally figured out Illana's role: she's Princess Leia. Lapidus is Han Solo, Ben is Luke Skywalker, and I guess that makes Sun Chewbacca. The secret passage is the garbage chute, and the smoke monster represents the ineffective group of stormtroopers mystified by the David Blaine-like disappearance of three people and a giant wookie from a narrow hallway.

Illana knows stuff. She hasn't shared much with us, but apparently she's important. Hopefully her role will get fleshed out pretty soon, because it's getting harder and harder for me to care about her - especially after the pitiful display of ineptitude Bram & company put on back at the four-toed foot.

And I don't know about you guys, but I'm getting sick of the Others trying to fight off the smoke monster with guns. You'd think if they stayed at the temple in fear of him all their lives, they might have some idea on how to battle him more effectively. Any idea at all would be nice, rather than standing around with rifles and getting dragged all over the place by smoke tendrils.

I'm also getting pissed about Sun. "Jin was here? He's alive?" Since the freighter blew up, her role has been reduced to something very small and insignificant. She's fallen by the wayside, and it's hard to keep watching her included in each episode only by definition of her obligatory one-liners. She was once a pretty great character, and hopefully finding Jin will help her return to that role.

Although it seems like I did nothing but complain in this section, I have to say these are all fairly minor issues. The overall storyline still rocks, and (especially after this episode) season six is moving along at an accelerated pace. It just seems like all the big characters have been separated from the little ones, and the little ones have banded together to form their own dysfunctional group that gets 5-minutes of airtime each episode. "You wanna live, you'd better move your ass!"

Sayid Jarrah May Be Gone... But I'm Betting The Ass-Kicking Will Live On

Ben's scene with Sayid was for our own benefit, not his. It was the last glimpse we'd get of the old Sayid - the loveable yet deadly guy we've been good buddies with since S1E1. Sayid even seems to say goodbye to himself, using the last shred of his old persona to deny Ben's assertion that there's "still time" for him. "Not for me", he says sadly, embracing his fate.


Behold - The Army of Darkness... Plus Kate

We haven't had a really good slow montage in a long while, and Sundown helped out with that. Watching Locke's army march forward from the ruined temple, accompanied by that really creepy music, totally gave the impression that the sun had finally set on Jacob and his people. Not since Dead is Dead have we seen gloom like this.

Sayid emerges from the temple fully 'claimed' and converted, and John Locke smiles at him. He knows that Sayid has done exactly what he set him out to do, and he's converted yet another one of Jacob's all-important candidates.

The dark man's attention turns next to Claire, and he nods approvingly at her for a job well done. Maybe either of both of them still feel that father-daughter bond that John Locke and Claire developed during season two, when he made a cradle for Aaron on her birthday.

But then Flocke's brow furrows slightly, as he sees Kate come out next. He cocks his head to the side, as if to say Really? You, Kate? Although the MIB considers her a little more carefully then everyone else, he still accepts her into his army. He does this because Kate could prove useful in converting other candidates... and because simply, he believes he can kill her at the first sign of trouble.

Prediction: this will end up biting the MIB right in the ass - HARD. Recruiting Kate into his army will be one of the dark man's biggest mistakes, because even though Austen-51 may not be one of Jacob's favorite six numbers, Kate is definitely still a candidate. As mentioned a few episodes back, Kate is Jacob's dirty little secret. Now that secret has infiltrated Flocke's own dark army, and placed herself in a position of power.

Kate is the one recruit who hasn't made a deal with the man in black, taken anything from him, or chosen to join him of her own free will. This will be big. Crossing Kate's name out on his lighthouse wheel might've been Jacob's own little power-play, especially if the MIB had access to the ultimate list of people Jacob deemed important.

Sundown was awesome. I'm glad the temple storyline didn't drag on longer than a half-dozen episodes. As Jacob and the dark man choose up sides, it's time to ramp up the action and built up momentum for the second half of the season. Let's see how fast the ride goes.

chairmenmeow47
03-03-2010, 02:43 PM
i will have to read that after my schoolwork tonight.

i was disappointed that sundown was not about sun.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Next episode will be about Sun/Jin.

Sexecutioner
03-03-2010, 04:01 PM
i used to like this show a lot more back in the day when i thought somebody had thought up this crazy ass story from the beginning, but now that i know they are pretty much just making it up as they go along, its not nearly as cool. it sucks cause they give you all these plot lines and mysteries in the first few seasons, and I'm thinking "wow, its going to be insane when all these answers are revealed and we see how it's all tied together", but then they only choose develop some of them (whichever ones they can write their way out of), while they totally abandon others that were main plot lines at one point (walt, vincent, widmore, etc). i know we still have a bunch more episodes to go, so i hope they make me eat my words, but i'm lowering my expectations for this last season. i dont think theres any way they can live up to the hype i once had.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 04:09 PM
I'm 99 percent sure they're going to address Widmore. You can't really blame them for Walt--the kid grew up. As far as Vincent, I don't see how he's even a plot line. He's a goddamn dog.

Lost is not making it up as they go along. Like with any TV show, they plot out about one season in advance and are careful to leave things in place to make the next season workable once they get to it. If anything, from a writer's perspective, Lost is WAY more planned out in advance than most other TV shows. On any other show all you have to do is resolve each season and then you get to basically start fresh the next season. Lost labors under a much more substantial weight from its previous seasons and handles it pretty excellently.

Sexecutioner
03-03-2010, 04:25 PM
ok, maybe vincent was a bad example, but for walt, they still brought him back that one time when he was older, so growing up is no excuse. i just think they didnt know where to go where his story, cause they were making it up as they went along instead of planing it all out from the beginning.

i know how tv works, and i agree that lost is still way better than most, if not all other shows. just sayin..when it started and there were all these crazy theories as to what was going on with the island, i was hoping they had it all written in advance with just some minor details and character development to do, and that everything would tie in to some master plan, but knowing that it's not kind of makes it less cool for me.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 04:32 PM
Vincent will be in an upcoming eps.

tessalasset
03-03-2010, 04:32 PM
Actually the writers said in a panel I went to that pretty much growing up WAS the reason they had to stop the walt story line. Remember only 3 years have passed since they crashed and Walt was what...ten? Eleven? There's no way he could pass for 14 now, and they're not about to go get a new actor. When they originally cast the show and shot the pilot, they didn't think it was going to go on this long.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 04:38 PM
Yeah, Walt kinda got fucked by virtue of the fact that it's taken about a year and a half between each season when the first four seasons all took place in the span of, what, 3 months? They were able to write Walt into the flash forward because it took place 3 years later, but how many flash forwards involving shitty ass Michael can you have?

I dunno man, I don't quite know how you can say that they haven't addressed a lot of the mysteries of the island laid out in the beginning. They've done a pretty fucking good job, and went deeper than I certainly would have imagined. Each season builds a further layer of complication but also revelation onto the last.

Sexecutioner
03-03-2010, 04:51 PM
I dunno man, I don't quite know how you can say that they haven't addressed a lot of the mysteries of the island laid out in the beginning. They've done a pretty fucking good job, and went deeper than I certainly would have imagined. Each season builds a further layer of complication but also revelation onto the last.

i guess i was referring to certain plot-lines i feel were abandoned. i know theres more besides walt, i just cant think of any right now. or maybe im just full of shit and over-exaggerating this in my head...

Monklish
03-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Frankly I'm so glad Walt got ditched because fucking Miles was about as annoying as characters get.

J~$$$$
03-03-2010, 04:56 PM
Miles is fucking awesome.

I feel like he is an audience member or writer that sees the show exactly as we do but he is a charecter on the show.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 04:57 PM
Ugh. All I wanted in the first several seasons was for him, Charlie, Kate, and Jack to fucking die. I've gotten half my wishes.

atom heart
03-03-2010, 06:43 PM
Every time I see either Jack or Kate I want them both to go skipping off holding hands until they run off a cliff.

However, if Kate manages to do something badass while lurking in the Monster's flock of terrified Others I think more kindly of her.

Of Jack, I kind of want him to die some seemingly meaningless death which is shown later to have been a great help in plot X or saving someone, because as annoying as I think Jack is he kind of deserves at least a good a death as Ben.

invisiblerobots
03-03-2010, 06:53 PM
Next episode will be about Sun/Jin.

Next episode is Ben and Widmore is listed as a guest star. And I seriously doubt they're going to kill of Ben just yet. Those promos are such bullshit.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 06:58 PM
They're just both such terrible actors, Kate especially. She's far and away the most irritating character in the entire program. I just can't stand how absolutely brainless and oblivious she is. Like this week when she was cheerily explaining to Claire how she stole her baby, assuming that Claire would clearly be happy about it. WTF? I want someone to just beat the everloving dogshit out of her.

invisiblerobots
03-03-2010, 07:01 PM
I was waiting for Claire to leap up and claw her eyes out, but I think that for some reason Claire is biding her time. Why wasn't she pissed that Aaron wasn't in the temple like she was told and she had to hang out in the pit until He came?

Monklish
03-03-2010, 07:02 PM
Fine then, episode after next. The backstory (or now side-story I guess) rotation has to come around to them pretty soon, but you have a point. There's still a couple more people to deal with and they're not going to do the Sun/Jin sidestory until the episode where Sun and Jin get reunited.

Monklish
03-03-2010, 07:03 PM
She looked pretty pissed to me.

invisiblerobots
03-03-2010, 07:06 PM
Actually Sin/Jun is four episodes away. And yeah, I think we have to have some side-flashes to connect to which will lead up to why Jin is in the fridge. The further we go in the side-flashes, I think the more the characters will eventually connect.

invisiblerobots
03-03-2010, 07:07 PM
Yeah, I guess Smoky is not someone that you can really call out on their lies. But they did the nod to one another as if they were cool and then did the slo-mo walk of badassedness.

tessalasset
03-03-2010, 10:10 PM
Ugh. All I wanted in the first several seasons was for him, Charlie, Kate, and Jack to fucking die. I've gotten half my wishes.

Justin why did you delete your post? I was thinking the same thing. Randy, are you talking about Miles? Asian Miles? Didn't he just come into the show in like the very last episode of season 4, if that?

tessalasset
03-03-2010, 10:12 PM
Or am I totally a season ahead of myself? Did the freighter guys/Keamy shit all happen in season 3? Or 4? What the hell happened in season 4?

ok Season 1 - crash, immediate losties drama
Season 2 - tailies, hatch, desmond, michael drama, ben, others
Season 3 - dharma watching plane crash? juliet introduced, what else?
Season 4 - Keamy & crew?
Season 5 - time traveling?

do I have that in the right order?

Monklish
03-03-2010, 10:29 PM
Blah blah, yeah I got my names confused. Not Miles. Michael. Miles is awesome.

And yeah, you got the seasons right.

1-Island
2-Dharma, Tail section
3-Others
4-Keamy, flash forward
5-Time travel

thestripe
03-04-2010, 09:03 AM
Ugh. All I wanted in the first several seasons was for him, Charlie, Kate, and Jack to fucking die. I've gotten half my wishes.


Jack hate is overrated.

sportsbunny
03-06-2010, 10:14 AM
At this point in the series it's like reading a really good book - you can't stop turning the pages but you don't want to reach the end either!