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bballarl
01-30-2010, 01:41 AM
The writers don't know what I know.

fikus222
01-30-2010, 02:16 AM
You've got it wrong, it's all about Mr. Echo :D That church ain't building itself :D

atom heart
01-30-2010, 05:12 AM
Some kids at my school are going to be showing the premier in the main lecture hall. I really want to see it on a big screen (our TV is tiny) but on the other hand I don't know if people are going to be jackasses and be so loud as to ruin it.

tessalasset
01-30-2010, 12:26 PM
they will, trust me. i've done a big broadcast before (season 2 finale) and it gets loooouuuud and sorta ruins it. if you need quiet, you'd be better off staying at home.

ivankay
01-30-2010, 01:49 PM
i got an invite to a Lost viewing party. i mentioned my concerns of group watching and the guy who invited me said people crack jokes but i could always watch it again. No thanks party viewing. i'll be fine with my isolation.

OnlyNonStranger
01-30-2010, 01:57 PM
Crack jokes? During Lost? Are they mad?!

digitaldragon03
01-30-2010, 02:02 PM
Fuck me, I get back home from work at 9:20pm on Tuesday. Anyone know what time they put the episode on ABC.com?

OnlyNonStranger
01-30-2010, 02:02 PM
I think previous seasons have been around midnight.

tessalasset
01-30-2010, 11:08 PM
i love how we are with this show. the hardcore people require absolute intense silence for an hour. even the commercials irritate me because they make a crack in the environment. most of the time we'll start watching about 20-25 minutes in so we can fast forward through the commercials. or we'll pause during commercials and debrief what we just watched. it's completely intense for that whole hour. back when i lived at home, my mom would always come into the living room to try and hang out and she would pretend to get all into it but just keep asking questions DURING THE SHOW. "who is this?" "why did she do that?" i was about ready to snap.

atom heart
01-31-2010, 06:35 AM
In the first season I actually liked the commercial breaks because they allowed both the tension to stay high (say, if the scene ends on a cliff hanger before going to break) and for me to calm down a little (especially during the episode where Charlie is hanged by Ethan).
Later on they got annoying.

In our house we can talk a little during the show but commercial breaks are for the WTF?! discussions.

HowToDisappear
01-31-2010, 06:54 AM
We just did an 11 hour marathon yesterday of seasons 4 and 5. Pizza, popcorn and Pepsi. Rest of season 5 to go tonight after work.

atom heart
01-31-2010, 06:59 AM
Jeez.
Wait, so have you gotten through all of the seasons now? Last I heard you'd only seen season 1.

BTW:
Some cool LOST posters (http://ffffound.com/image/67860351c2f6acda7fed5f577596e1a525c39e98) via ffffound.

tessalasset
01-31-2010, 10:54 PM
i don't understand why he didn't just stick with the LOST font. I don't like any of the fonts he used.

altho i'd REALLY like this poster. fuck i might need to buy this one.

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/1e11e447dd70ed217c32a11933ff009de1a1aa8f_m.jpg

chairmenmeow47
02-01-2010, 07:47 AM
i love how we are with this show. the hardcore people require absolute intense silence for an hour. even the commercials irritate me because they make a crack in the environment. most of the time we'll start watching about 20-25 minutes in so we can fast forward through the commercials. or we'll pause during commercials and debrief what we just watched. it's completely intense for that whole hour. back when i lived at home, my mom would always come into the living room to try and hang out and she would pretend to get all into it but just keep asking questions DURING THE SHOW. "who is this?" "why did she do that?" i was about ready to snap.

i always try to let it play so we can fast forward, but some times i just can't wait.

i started re-watching over the weekend. it's so interesting to see "not locke", knowing what we know now. it's little things like him calling the manifest the "passenger list", when in season 1 everyone was calling it a manifest.

J~$$$$
02-01-2010, 08:03 AM
I watched the trailer on the LOST facebook page....so exciting....I want to drink a bunch of NyQuil now and wake up tomorrow night.

chairmenmeow47
02-01-2010, 08:04 AM
i want the world to flash & make a weird noise and transport me to tomorrow

J~$$$$
02-01-2010, 08:11 AM
IN YOUR MIND IT WOOSHES!

Somewhat Damaged
02-01-2010, 08:15 AM
Fuck me, I get back home from work at 9:20pm on Tuesday. Anyone know what time they put the episode on ABC.com?

Get DVR. Or a friend who has it. Problem solved.

Leeartlee
02-01-2010, 08:23 AM
i love how we are with this show. the hardcore people require absolute intense silence for an hour. even the commercials irritate me because they make a crack in the environment. most of the time we'll start watching about 20-25 minutes in so we can fast forward through the commercials. or we'll pause during commercials and debrief what we just watched. it's completely intense for that whole hour. back when i lived at home, my mom would always come into the living room to try and hang out and she would pretend to get all into it but just keep asking questions DURING THE SHOW. "who is this?" "why did she do that?" i was about ready to snap.

Yeah, I totally feel this. I used to live in this totally out of control party house which pretty much was always full of noise. But the moment right before Lost would come on and would announce, "If you don't live here, get the fuck out. If you do, ABSOLUTE silence when show is on." It was the only real rule I enforced in the house. It was so bad, I actually got into real fights with my roommates. As was true to my addiction to Lost.

Bring on the LA X

chairmenmeow47
02-01-2010, 08:29 AM
my old roommate would walk in almost every week and say "wait, i thought they were on an island?"

Leeartlee
02-01-2010, 11:45 AM
my old roommate would walk in almost every week and say "wait, i thought they were on an island?"

The ignorance, my God the ignorance.




That's pretty funny though

atom heart
02-01-2010, 04:27 PM
Our mod-mate found an abandoned TV that's way larger and has a better picture in the hallway. We've set it up for Tuesday but it's video-out is broken and we have no remote for it so we'll get rid of it once we watch LOST.

Courtney
02-01-2010, 04:32 PM
So no spoilers, but the premiere was pretty nuts. People were camping out in beach chairs on Waikiki from 7am for the 5pm premiere event, even though the weather was gross and the preview was only the first hour of the episode. Hawaii people love their Lost.

And Evangeline Lily, as gorgeous as she is, once again proved that she has horrible taste in clothing.

bballarl
02-01-2010, 07:16 PM
I am just happy to have all the jerk-around bullshit that I have put up with resolved. Or mostly resolved.

caco0283
02-01-2010, 07:38 PM
first four minutes from tomorrow released

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/43811

OnlyNonStranger
02-01-2010, 07:39 PM
Yeah, probably not all that resolved. It will still be good though!

captncrzy
02-01-2010, 08:00 PM
I'm not sure what to think about that.

chairmenmeow47
02-02-2010, 07:51 AM
tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night. tonight's the night.

http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/582904-2/disco_ben.jpg

http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/582918-3/screen_capture_14.jpg

http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/582383-2/0321080903_G.jpg

shakermaker113
02-02-2010, 07:52 AM
I hope I can find a tv to watch on tonight. :-/

locachica73
02-02-2010, 07:55 AM
I don't get to see the premier till tomorrow night so I will be avoiding this thread till then. Enjoy your watching people. :)

HowToDisappear
02-02-2010, 09:02 AM
I called out sick for work tonight. I didn't absorb two whole seasons of LOST in two days for nothing.

stellarpoet22
02-02-2010, 09:04 AM
Lost!!!!!!

Leeartlee
02-02-2010, 09:06 AM
I called out sick for work tonight. I didn't absorb two whole seasons of LOST in two days for nothing.

That's the only way to roll, in both regards. Well done!

locachica73
02-02-2010, 09:07 AM
I have taken "mental health days" but never an "I am LOST day". Nice work. :)

Astrid
02-02-2010, 12:50 PM
this is going to be my first time watching it while its actually airing. im really fucking excited.

i invited some other lost-ies over to my house to enjoy our big screen, if they bring non-serious viewers I WILL KILL THEM. :pulse

Leeartlee
02-02-2010, 12:52 PM
this is going to be my first time watching it while its actually airing. im really fucking excited.

i invited some other lost-ies over to my house to enjoy our big screen, if they bring non-serious viewers I WILL KILL THEM. :pulse

Completely understandable. They are infidels that deserve their fate.

stinkbutt
02-02-2010, 12:54 PM
same for me I am gonna run to the liquor store in an hour and then grab some pizza

I just hope my buddy who just broke up with his gf isn't sobbing the rest of the night

Leeartlee
02-02-2010, 12:57 PM
same for me I am gonna run to the liquor store in an hour and then grab some pizza

I just hope my buddy who just broke up with his gf isn't sobbing the rest of the night

Put a muzzle on him. It's the only way to be sure.

stinkbutt
02-02-2010, 01:02 PM
I should I can already hear him "wah Sarah and I used to watch this waaaaaaah"

Astrid
02-02-2010, 01:48 PM
i might just go to sleep until lost comes on....im not that into participating in today.

J~$$$$
02-02-2010, 02:26 PM
PUMPED!

1litro
02-02-2010, 04:44 PM
All day Saturday,some Sunday,some Monday-seasons four and five ready for six

Courtney
02-02-2010, 05:06 PM
Argh time change. And I'm going to be out tonight too, so I won't see it until tomorrow. TORTURE.

SDsoldier7
02-02-2010, 07:01 PM
the beginning of the end :(

juloxx
02-02-2010, 07:33 PM
I gave up on Lost after the 3rd season. I got tired of all the characters settling for the most half ass answers

John: Wait! Don't go! What happens if the lever gets pulled

Mystery Character: Something Bad.....

John: Ohhh

*Mystery Character proceeds to leave into the forest*


That scenario has happened at least 15 different times during the seasons I watched.

J~$$$$
02-02-2010, 07:40 PM
I gave up on Lost after the 3rd season. I got tired of all the characters settling for the most half ass answers

John: Wait! Don't go! What happens if the lever gets pulled

Mystery Character: Something Bad.....

John: Ohhh

*Mystery Character proceeds to leave into the forest*


That scenario has happened at least 15 different times during the seasons I watched.
cool story dumb fuck.

Find somewhere else to post your bullshit.

whynotsmile99
02-02-2010, 08:18 PM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/final_season_of_lost_promises_to

quicksand
02-02-2010, 08:36 PM
*SPOILER* RANT WARNING

Shit so is this full blown parallel universes now or what?
Man I really though Sayid was a goner there for a second.. I mean, they can't all make it through to a happy ending can they?? I guess they sort of hinted at his resurrection when Hurley asked Miles what was up and he hesitated before saying, "Nothing..."
Sort of cool with Juliet being dead (allegedly).
One thing I don't get - How the fuck was Desmond on the plane and where did he go? That shit blew my mind.
How many god damn times is Kate going to escape from that asshole?
Glad to see the absence of Michael and Walt. Oh and Shannon. I could do without those guys for now.

ponyup
02-02-2010, 08:44 PM
SPOILER

I'm so cool with Juliet being dead. I hope she stays that way. Not a fan of her. I better not see shannon's face anytime soon.

I don't understand why Desmond was on the plane though. Technically shouldn't he still be on the island with the Dharma crew?

Also...Jacob's nemesis is the smoke monster? and invincible?

OnlyNonStranger
02-02-2010, 08:47 PM
^Fuck you. I love Juliet. The only reason they killed her off is because she's on that new show V. Also you must not have been paying attention if you didn't know the smoke monster was Jacob's nemesis and also NOT invincible.

Besides that rant.

WHAT THE FUCK LOST?!

Tylerdurden31
02-02-2010, 08:54 PM
Desmond would have nowhere to be if the swan wasn't ever there. Especially if the entire Dharma crew was blow to shit by the bomb.

Also...my friend pointed out. Charlie saved Desmond. Jack saved Charlie, then Desmond disappeared...gah

J~$$$$
02-02-2010, 08:58 PM
Desmond would have nowhere to be if the swan wasn't ever there. Especially if the entire Dharma crew was blow to shit by the bomb.

Also...my friend pointed out. Charlie saved Desmond. Jack saved Charlie, then Desmond disappeared...gah

oh snap good call.

stinkbutt
02-02-2010, 09:00 PM
I like the island lore more than the actual characters so this season is looking great

Monklish
02-02-2010, 09:04 PM
Well, the Charlie saved Desmond thing doesn't exactly work, does it? 'Cause the events on The Looking Glass happen in the future from the new original plane flight timeline.

Tylerdurden31
02-02-2010, 09:19 PM
Well, the Charlie saved Desmond thing doesn't exactly work, does it? 'Cause the events on The Looking Glass happen in the future from the new original plane flight timeline.

or do they?

OnlyNonStranger
02-02-2010, 09:21 PM
There are two timelines.

Monklish
02-02-2010, 09:21 PM
or do they?

A good point. But when did Charlie save Desmond either way?

Monklish
02-02-2010, 09:22 PM
There are two timelines.

Shut the fuck up, no wai.

stinkbutt
02-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Was it just me or did it seem like (from all the recaps at least) Christian is going to play a big role in this season?

phenomenator
02-02-2010, 10:09 PM
*SPOLIER*

Christian's missing body must be the link between the two timelines somehow

vogina
02-02-2010, 10:13 PM
worst piece of shit programming EVER

SDsoldier7
02-02-2010, 10:17 PM
*SPOLIER*

Christian's missing body must be the link between the two timelines somehow



^thats weird.


Charlie saved desmond in season 3 i believe. when they were in the underwater base thing.

Monklish
02-02-2010, 10:19 PM
Charlie didn't save Desmond. He was supposed to die. Desmond had had a premonition of Charlie drowning in The Looking Glass.

bmack86
02-02-2010, 10:21 PM
Are they going to bring back Mr. Eko?

Monklish
02-02-2010, 10:22 PM
Are they going to bring back Mr. Eko?

God I hope so. Mr. Eko is still the best character ever on this show.

Astrid
02-02-2010, 11:31 PM
i would assume theyre going to bring back all the characters that are on the poster in some form or another. eko, penny, shannon, michael, walt, farraday, charlotte, and ana lucia. i would be happy if only eko and farraday came back. walt and penny are acceptable as well.

terry o'quinn was fucking awesome in this episode. shhhhit.

edit: apparently shannon has declined to rejoin the cast.

Sexecutioner
02-02-2010, 11:32 PM
i always wondered how they thought they would just magically re-appear back on the flight. even if they did prevent the flight from crashing, that would be a parallel universe at that point. farraday should have known that. shit, anybody whos seen back to the future should know that. i'm lovin seeing the old island inhabitants from back in the day (i think?). i want to know more about them. i also want to see the flashback from alpert in chains. man, i could go on and on...god damn i love this show.

Monklish
02-02-2010, 11:35 PM
Not Locke might be my favorite character.

So with this beginning here's my feeling about where they're going with this all: the ultimate goal is going to be some kind of mystical bullshit effort to join the two realities, most likely with the end result that when all's said and done the no-crash reality takes over the other reality and none of the show ever fucking happened.

tessalasset
02-02-2010, 11:38 PM
You could say Charlie saved everyone if you're gonna say Charlie saved Desmond. He just wrote a little blurb on his hand. It was Desmond who kept trying to save Charlie throughout the whole season.

Maybe Desmond was somehow responsible for Jack saving Charlie on the plane? Once Charlie was revived, Desmond wasn't needed anymore. Long shot.

And yeah, Desmond could have been anywhere. He totally could have been on the plane if there was never a Swan station in which for him to reside.

It was so awesome seeing what amounted to an extended play of the Oceanic flight. That was my favorite part of the episode.

And I LOVE that it's pretty much come down to Team Jacob and Team Esau. I really fucking hope that's who it is. It's interesting to think back to all those people smokie killed and why he killed them. Were there any people other than Ben and Locke that smokie didn't kill? Did it let Jack, Charlie and Kate escape on purpose in S1E2?

Jacob definitely knew something was going to compromise him, and he went to call on the help of Ilana and crew. That's pretty cool. Cept that they sucked. Do you think Jacob really died, if Esau can't die that easily? Can Jacob find a loophole to kill Esau if vice versa can happen?

Can't wait to see what Richard's chains were all about. He looked absolutely terrified.

So yeah, parallel timelines. I wonder if they're just going to merge throughout the season or at the very end, so they never crashed, but they still remember all this shit and remember how they got there.

Also I loved seeing Ilana's thug think he outsmarted smokie and then get impaled.

Monklish
02-02-2010, 11:43 PM
I had that thought about Desmond possibly being on the plane to save Charlie's life yet again. In theory since Desmond already travels through time, why not let him be the one motherfucker who knows about the two realities?

When did dude get named Esau? The real question for me is can both Jacob and Esau show up as dead people, or is that something just Esau does? I kinda like the idea that Not Locke--or Esau, fucking whatever, that name is weird--is only capable of taking form as dead people. But that raises some questions like was Jacob's ghost also that dude, or was it really Jacob?

Frankly at this point I'm just really glad they did explain the fucking smoke monster.

Astrid
02-02-2010, 11:50 PM
i really cant foresee them taking the alternate 815 reality all through the season. that would be INSANE. we follow them all disperse throughout their lives? charlie in prison? kate on the run AGAIN....jack being boring, sun and jin being lame again? i dont see that feasibly going on for too long.

i want to know why the island is under water. and what are the implications of all the other people who would have been on the island during the time of the original 815 flight. ben, julliette??

also the swan was built. it doesnt seem as if setting the bomb off in the past caused an explosion as much as time distortion. that the hatch they dug julliette out of was the one des had exploded. (you can see his exercise bike in the rubble etc) so i would assume with that he must have been on the island, and ended up on the plane somehow???

Monklish
02-02-2010, 11:54 PM
I don't think that was the Swan hatch, I think that was a mistaken first impression. All the stuff from the a-bomb detonation is still there in place. I think--not sure though--that you see a bike get sucked down the hole at the end of Season 5.

stinkbutt
02-02-2010, 11:54 PM
Esau (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esau)

If they end it with everything being fine that would be lame for Locke cuz he'd either be dead or crippled, and if he was so special to the island why the fuck would they do that

Monklish
02-02-2010, 11:54 PM
I dunno about that. Jack might repair Locke's back.

tessalasset
02-02-2010, 11:58 PM
Is Christian also Esau's doing? I'm just calling him Esau cause someone quoted in here last year the whole story between the two in the bible and it really felt like a match. It's easier just to call him that. He can be Not Locke for you if you want.

Can Esau ONLY show up as dead people? I mean I think he's more just a spirit. He can be smokie when he wants to be. He can be corpses when he wants to be. And he can be old man on the beach when he wants to be. I'm sure he's been other things. Maybe he's been the horse Kate sees? Maybe that horse was dead in real life, who knows.

I'm really glad Charlie was back, and Boone too (tho he's grown up a LOT). It was a decent explanation for Shannon not being there. I guess no hot incest for them the night before. I don't understand why Michael and Walt weren't in there. And it was so crazy seeing Sun and Jin back like that after all this time we've spent with them. Even down to the buttoning her shirt. Guess it would have happened anywhere. This might be a pointless question, but was there more to Jin's final job than we thought? Was he supposed to deliver the watch AND money to one of Paik's guys? Or what else could that money have been for? I forget - just Sun wanted to leave him in LA, right? Or was Jin wanting to run away with Sun once they got to LA and be free of her father? Is that why he had all that money? She didn't seem to know anything about it. Maybe he was going to surprise her, but he sure was an ass on the plane, so I doubt it.

Way to go, writers, for totally making us SO EXCITED to see whether Locke was going to stand up on the airplane or not. I love how they just throw in little bones to us like that every now and then. Why did he feel the need to lie like that to Boone? He didn't even have to go into details. Maybe he was just trying to seem interesting and live vicariously.

Astrid
02-02-2010, 11:59 PM
I don't think that was the Swan hatch, I think that was a mistaken first impression. All the stuff from the a-bomb detonation is still there in place. I think--not sure though--that you see a bike get sucked down the hole at the end of Season 5.

hmm...what sort of stuff was still there? im almost certain it was desmonds exercise bike. it was red, and stationary.

but either way if it is the exploded swan station or the exploded construction site it still doesnt explain much.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:00 AM
So Richard was a slave on the Black Rock, amirite?

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:01 AM
Well when the swan station exploded though there was just a big ol hole in the ground. That was still the dig site from the 70s. I found it really weird when Kate tried to call it The Swan hatch post-Desmond explosion. It looked nothing like that.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:02 AM
the conversation between john and boone on the plane killed me. boone suggesting he would stick with john if something happened, asking if he was pulling his leg. all brilliant.

what does the blood on jacks neck mean?!! so many questions...

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:02 AM
I dunno about that. Jack might repair Locke's back.

Oh I don't know how that thought hadn't even crossed my mind good call.

also maybe this whole parallel dimensions thing is more faith vs. logic bs

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:05 AM
also i didnt interpret the comment about richards "chains" to be literal. it seemed as if evil-locke was referring to his possible enslavement to jacob, which he was released from upon his death?

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:06 AM
http://coachella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2338&page=119

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:07 AM
No, dude. Richard as a Black Rock slave is WAAAAYYYYYYYYYY cooler. Randy my eyes bulged when I read that.

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:09 AM
plus Richard looked fuckin scared shitless and knew exactly what he was talking about

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:11 AM
he realized who evil-locke was from that comment and that he was fucked. he wasnt having flashbacks of slave days.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:11 AM
I mean it's generally assumed that the ship Jacob and Enau are watching at the beginning of the last ep of Season 5 is the Black Rock, right? And that's a slave ship. So it seems a pretty logical thing to be getting that kind of a reaction out of Richard.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:12 AM
he realized who evil-locke was from that comment and that he was fucked. he wasnt having flashbacks of slave days.

Yeah, he realized who he was because he knows there's only two entities on the island that were there when his slave ship landed on the island.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:13 AM
That's true. I initially imagined him chained up somewhere c/o Esau.


Oh and hello, John and Yoko! When they said "The Temple" I didn't realize they meant an actual operating temple behind an old facade of a temple. Crazy Lost.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:15 AM
richard and evil-locke had been interacting for quite awhile before he made that comment (ie season 5). if he were referring to literal chains back in the black rock days that would imply he had been waiting that whole time just to lay that line on him? waiting for him to take him to jacob, sure, but are we really to assume that the first thing he would do upon being able to reveal his identity freely is to make a slave joke??

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:15 AM
What did everyone think when he said "I'm disappointed in all of you"? Did he want them to destroy everything like he predicted to prove Jacob wrong? They fought all the time so that had me confused

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 12:22 AM
Why is no one talking about Sayid coming back to life!!! WTF was in that water!

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:24 AM
richard and evil-locke had been interacting for quite awhile before he made that comment (ie season 5). if he were referring to literal chains back in the black rock days that would imply he had been waiting that whole time just to lay that line on him? waiting for him to take him to jacob, sure, but are we really to assume that the first thing he would do upon being able to reveal his identity freely is to make a slave joke??

Richard and Not Locke had been interacting? You're assuming a bit there. Strid, think about it from two angles--supposing it's true, how better way for Not Locke to communicate to Richard who he is quickly and simply and putting him in his place at the same time? But more importantly, and the way you really have to look at Lost--think about it from a writer's perspective. It sets up a good winking moment the writers can tie from season 5 to season 6 with. We'll see The Black Rock landing on the island and whatever happens there. Something will happen with Richard in captivity, and for whatever reason Jacob makes Richard his little buddy. Probably because Jacob in effect saved him from a life of slavery.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:24 AM
Why is no one talking about Sayid coming back to life!!! WTF was in that water!

Island minerals. Life juice.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:25 AM
I like that the nature of this show is that people coming back to life is totally the least interesting thing about the episode.

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:30 AM
Haha yeah well after time travel and smoke monsters coming back to life by Lazarus Pit isn't that crazy.

So I'm assuming home for the monster means The Temple is home and he was exiled from there

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 12:31 AM
When Sawyer was clearing the debris from the Swan or . . . the hatch . . . whatever . . . I thought I saw him move the tool box out of the way. The same toolbox that hit Jack in the back of the head at the end of Season 5.

Whats up with the blood on Jacks neck?

and What does the airline losing Jacks pop mean? Will Jacob take the shape of Jacks dad? Will the smoke monster take that shape?

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:33 AM
my interpretation is definitely a lit major reading. hhahaha. richard and evilocke def did interact in the final episodes of s5, just under the assumption he was gandalf-the-white-locke. i suppose being evil would mean getting off on totally debasing a guy in front of everyone before you punch him in the face.

is it ever explained where BR was sailing from? if richard is a slave where is he coming from/being sold to? or should be not read historical accuracy into lost-slave-ships? probably not...

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:33 AM
Will Jacob take the shape of Jacks dad? Will the smoke monster take that shape?

The thought crossed my mind that he always was (on the island) and that maybe he encouraged Locke to turn the wheel somehow knowing that would become his loophole

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:38 AM
my interpretation is definitely a lit major reading. hhahaha. richard and evilocke def did interact in the final episodes of s5, just under the assumption he was gandalf-the-white-locke. i suppose being evil would mean getting off on totally debasing a guy in front of everyone before you punch him in the face.

is it ever explained where BR was sailing from? if richard is a slave where is he coming from/being sold to? or should be not read historical accuracy into lost-slave-ships? probably not...

Historical accuracy does seem a bit silly, but maybe we'll find out. White slavery is not at all uncommon though.

Yeah I know they interacted in season five but that makes no sense for your point. He was trying to convince Richard that he was Locke in season five. It was an integral part of Not Locke's plan to kill Jacob that he get to take the form of the one person people like Richard would trust. Why the fuck would Not Locke reveal his true identity to Richard any earlier than right then?

I'm wondering if maybe Not Locke's body in the finale of season 5 was his true form. Perhaps we see in flashbacks how he got killed--by Richard at Jacob's behest perhaps--and thus now can only take the form of smoke and dead dudes.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 12:43 AM
i wasnt saying he would reveal his identity before completing his mission, i was just saying that it it silly that he would spend a considerable about of time with richard and then once it was time where he could finally reveal his identity to him, he would chose to do so by making a joke about richard being a slave AGES AGO. i would assume richard/jacob/evilocke have interacted for countless years in the past, so he has seen him out of his slave-chains for a long fucking time. "glad to see you out of your chains" indicates to me a recent change as opposed to a slanderous comment referring to something that happened such a long time ago.

i do see your argument as valid, if it is the case that richard was a slave i would just feel it was a moment of stupid writing.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:46 AM
Randy, the whole point of Esau coming to them was that he needed Ben (or someone else) to kill Jacob. If he immediately strolled up to Richard and said "Sup Rick? It's me, Esau. I need to go see Jacob. Can you take me to him?" Richard would be like "HELL NO!" and run in the other direction, making sure to take everyone else with him. Esau had to pretend he was John Locke because both Richard and Ben trusted him. And he needed Ben to get his ass in to that foot and kill Jacob. Part of the loophole had to have been that the killer had to CHOOSE to kill Jacob (hence the "Ben, you have a choice" plea). Esau couldn't just bring someone in there and force him to kill Jacob. Ben would have never done that if he knew it wasn't really Locke and actually a darker force at work. Ben trusted Jacob.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:47 AM
And I agree with Astrid that Richard and Esau definitely have a sordid past together.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:49 AM
What a stupid opinion. Fucking think about it for a second--what better way in the world is there to throw your victory in the face of your vanquished enemy's follower? One swift sentence to communicate who you are and thus make him realize that he unwittingly got Jacob killed because you duped them all. I don't see how in the world you can already be dismissing it as bad writing considering that you have absolutely no knowledge of what's been going on between these two points in time. What would you have rathered he say? "Richard, I'm that guy who was here hanging out with Jacob a couple hundred years in the past when you landed here-remember me?"

You're assuming a lot about what they've done. Occam's Razor. This isn't a lit major's interpretation. I would think a lit major would be able to recognize an obvious plant.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:50 AM
Randy, the whole point of Esau coming to them was that he needed Ben (or someone else) to kill Jacob. If he immediately strolled up to Richard and said "Sup Rick? It's me, Esau. I need to go see Jacob. Can you take me to him?" Richard would be like "HELL NO!" and run in the other direction, making sure to take everyone else with him. Esau had to pretend he was John Locke because both Richard and Ben trusted him. And he needed Ben to get his ass in to that foot and kill Jacob. Part of the loophole had to have been that the killer had to CHOOSE to kill Jacob (hence the "Ben, you have a choice" plea). Esau couldn't just bring someone in there and force him to kill Jacob. Ben would have never done that if he knew it wasn't really Locke and actually a darker force at work. Ben trusted Jacob.

Why are you telling me this? This is exactly the point I was just making to Astrid.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:50 AM
Yeah I know they interacted in season five but that makes no sense for your point. He was trying to convince Richard that he was Locke in season five. It was an integral part of Not Locke's plan to kill Jacob that he get to take the form of the one person people like Richard would trust. Why the fuck would Not Locke reveal his true identity to Richard any earlier than right then?

Like here. I said that right here.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:54 AM
Why are you telling me this? This is exactly the point I was just making to Astrid.

I was reading your posts wrong I guess. It seemed like you were wondering why Esau didn't immediately tell Richard who he was when he ran into him this time around.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 12:55 AM
Oh ok yeah I was totally misreading what you were writing.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:56 AM
No, that seems to be Astrid's stance, and I think it's just as fucking loopy as it seemed to you when you thought I was saying it.

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 12:56 AM
Is it that far of a stretch to think maybe the last time he saw him was in chains?

He seemed like a reclusive hermit in Season 5 when it was just Jacob and him

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 12:58 AM
Historical accuracy does seem a bit silly, but maybe we'll find out. White slavery is not at all uncommon though.

From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Slave_trade_in_Europe

In Western Europe slavery largely disappeared by the later Middle Ages.[82] The trade of slaves in England was made illegal in 1102.[83] Thralldom in Scandinavia was finally abolished in the mid-14th century.[84] Slavery persisted longer in Eastern Europe. Slavery in Poland was forbidden in the 15th century.

A ship the size of the Black Rock Couldn't have been built before the 1600's.
The Santa Maria, largest of Chris Columbus' fleet was only 70 feet long.

Black Rock was probably a black slave ship . . . but if so . . . where did all the slaves go? I'm so confused.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:00 AM
Or to imagine that maybe it's a little tricky for Not Locke to easily identify himself because he's always in the form of other people? I mean I don't see how it would have ever been advantageous to Not Locke in the course of whatever plots he was trying to carry out to identify himself to Richard as that other god who was on the island when his slave ship crashed. Obviously Richard knows something about what kind of an evil fucker Not Locke is--to whatever extent they'd been interacting for the past couple hundred years, it's highly doubtful that Not Locke was fessing up to who he really was.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:02 AM
From Wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery#Slave_trade_in_Europe

In Western Europe slavery largely disappeared by the later Middle Ages.[82] The trade of slaves in England was made illegal in 1102.[83] Thralldom in Scandinavia was finally abolished in the mid-14th century.[84] Slavery persisted longer in Eastern Europe. Slavery in Poland was forbidden in the 15th century.

A ship the size of the Black Rock Couldn't have been built before the 1600's.
The Santa Maria, largest of Chris Columbus' fleet was only 70 feet long.

Black Rock was probably a black slave ship . . . but if so . . . where did all the slaves go? I'm so confused.

... Dude, is your position seriously that it doesn't make sense because western europe had criminalized the slave trade, so therefore where would one ever get a white slave from? There's a white slave trade TODAY.

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 01:03 AM
Whats the deal with the ashes and Not-Locke not being able to get thru them? any ideas?

Astrid
02-03-2010, 01:03 AM
how is assuming something is metaphorical rather than literal not a lit major interpretation? which is irrelevant anyways.

in all reality the most comprehensive reading would be to interpret it as literal and metaphorical, until we know the truth. if he was indeed a slave then it serves the purpose of belittling him as well as indicating who evilockes true identity. but regardless of the validity of that assumption it is still very much a figurative reference to the death of jacob and dissolving of richards service to him.

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 01:08 AM
... Dude, is your position seriously that it doesn't make sense because western europe had criminalized the slave trade, so therefore where would one ever get a white slave from? There's a white slave trade TODAY.

Not impossible. Just Unlikely.

Why would the writers go there?

You write about black slaves and everyone seems to be ok with that. White slave stories are pretty Taboo.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 01:08 AM
No, that seems to be Astrid's stance, and I think it's just as fucking loopy as it seemed to you when you thought I was saying it.

i never said that it would have been advantageous for evilocke to reveal his identity. i merely said it is strange that after assumed way distant past-interaction with richard, and documented present-interaction the first thing he would mention would be something that occurred such a long time ago. makes perfect sense to me....

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:10 AM
Whats the deal with the ashes and Not-Locke not being able to get thru them? any ideas?

It most immediately sticks out to me as a circle of protection. In occult practices you encircle yourself in salt prior to messing around with shit on the notion that the circle somehow keeps evil from invading your space.


how is assuming something is metaphorical rather than literal not a lit major interpretation? which is irrelevant anyways.

in all reality the most comprehensive reading would be to interpret it as literal and metaphorical, until we know the truth. if he was indeed a slave then it serves the purpose of belittling him as well as indicating who evilockes true identity. but regardless of the validity of that assumption it is still very much a figurative reference to the death of jacob and dissolving of richards service to him.

Actually you're right, it is a lit major interpretation--an absolutely needless compulsion to make things obtuse to the point of meaninglessnes. You were right.

Yeah the metaphorical application certainly applies, but my point is more that the statement doesn't really make much sense without there being some literal truth to it. It would be a really confusing way to try to communicate that metaphor, wouldn't it? Would that really cause Richard's head to go reeling with realizations the way he did? Or wouldn't any normal person who had never been chained up spend at least five seconds going, "Chains? What chains? I don't get you."

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 01:12 AM
Whats the deal with the ashes and Not-Locke not being able to get thru them? any ideas?

that's always been a thing throughout the series. i don't know if there's anything deeper than it seems to be smokie's kryptonite.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 01:16 AM
yeah i see youre point, my thinking there was that richards "slavery" to jacob offered him some sort of protection, now that he was released from it he was able to be harmed by evilocke, and that the look of terror was 1. recognition that jacob was dead 2. recognition that evilocke was "esau" or whatever and 3. recognition that he was now going to get fucked up. but those are all just things i made up in my head with no factual basis :D

and yes i agree with you, lit interpretation is ABSOLUTE NONSENSE, it pains me that ive spent the last 4 years training my brain to think these ways. it can be helpful sometimes though...

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:18 AM
Apparently it doesn't make you any better at recognizing story arcs and interpreting dialogue. Which one would think literature would make you good at.

Dj Oso Fresh
02-03-2010, 01:20 AM
Why do you think their pasts changed in the parallel universe where the plane actually lands at LAX? For example, Hurley has the best luck in the world and Boone never talked his sis into coming home so shannon isn't even on the plane.

Yet Jacks dad is still dead, locke can't walk and kate is under arrest.

why did some pasts change and others didn't?

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 01:22 AM
that's always been a thing throughout the series. i don't know if there's anything deeper than it seems to be smokie's kryptonite.

I like Smokie anyways is this possibly the reason he takes Richard to go home because he can't cross it and need someone who can? This show has me geeking out about all the possibilities over the smallest things

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:36 AM
Why do you think their pasts changed in the parallel universe where the plane actually lands at LAX? For example, Hurley has the best luck in the world and Boone never talked his sis into coming home so shannon isn't even on the plane.

Yet Jacks dad is still dead, locke can't walk and kate is under arrest.

why did some pasts change and others didn't?

One of the rules Lost laid out last season: whatever happened happened. I've been thinking this over but I think there's a way it can make sense, however it involves the 2004 timeline in season six somehow still getting back to the island. The 1977 Losties transported to 2007, but since they already had to have traveled to the island in order to ever have gone back to 1977 in the first place, nothing they did in 1977 can have undone them getting to the island in the first place. What we're seeing transpire in 2004 will ultimately result in all the pieces being in place for them to travel back to the 70s in the first place, but the way they get there is going to be different.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 01:39 AM
I like Smokie anyways is this possibly the reason he takes Richard to go home because he can't cross it and need someone who can? This show has me geeking out about all the possibilities over the smallest things
i don't know about that. richard would never agree to help him out. he'd probably rather die. i think Esau was taking richard just for the hell of it, since Richard is obviously the most knowledgeable member left from that team.

DJ Oso you bring up a good point. At first I thought Hurley was being facetious, but at the end of that scene when he put the headphones on, he really did seem to believe he was the luckiest person in the world. That was super weird. And yeah, it didn't phase me that Boone wasn't able to talk Shannon into coming with him, but now that you phrase it like that...what the hell? Why were some of their story lines different but others were the same?

Also I'm surprised, this being Lost and all, that those re-shot scenes between Jack & Stewardess/Jack & Rose weren't exact re-shoots. The phrasing was different on both in both of those conversations. Remember with stewardess he originally says "this breaks some critical FAA regulations," and now he says "it'll be our little secret." Lost is usually so dead on with this stuff (see: the plane crash in real time youtube vide), that it almost seems meaningful that they changed it up this time around.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 01:40 AM
well dude you have to admit with only that one line as textual evidence trying to make a DEFINITIVE argument that richard was a slave is fucking stupid.

first of all it is entirely assumption that richard arrived on the BR. wheres the evidence?

secondly, i really dont want to get into a whole historical slavery white slavery/black slavery debate, but you cannot deny that richard, who is neither white nor black, he is played by a hispanic actor, seems like an unlikely candidate for slavery. it would make more sense if he was a prisoner than anything else.

if you bring in the secondary support that the black rock was a slave ship then youre at least starting to have a semi-argument. but as far as my knowledge, and im Sure you will correct me if im wrong, it was never definitively established BR was a slave ship. this assumption comes from the chained skeletons, right? who could just as easily have been prisoners.

i think i could write a way more legitimate paper with my claim than yours based on what we know at this point.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 01:44 AM
well dude you have to admit with only that one line as textual evidence trying to make a DEFINITIVE argument that richard was a slave is fucking stupid.

first of all it is entirely assumption that richard arrived on the BR. wheres the evidence?

secondly, i really dont want to get into a whole historical slavery white slavery/black slavery debate, but you cannot deny that richard, who is neither white nor black, he is played by a hispanic actor, seems like an unlikely candidate for slavery. it would make more sense if he was a prisoner than anything else.

if you bring in the secondary support that the black rock was a slave ship then youre at least starting to have a semi-argument. but as far as my knowledge, and im Sure you will correct me if im wrong, it was never definitively established BR was a slave ship. this assumption comes from the chained skeletons, right? who could just as easily have been prisoners.

i think i could write a way more legitimate paper with my claim than yours based on what we know at this point.

We'll find out whether or not I'm right. I never said it was proven, I'm just saying it makes very little sense as a piece of Lost dialogue to be completely metaphorical. It just doesn't fit at all. You will see Richard in some kind of chains before this season is out. Whether they are Black Rock slave chains remains to be seen.

Black Rock is referred to as a slave ship in other episodes. Locke says it in the ep where he gets Sawyer to kill his father inside the Black Rock.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 01:46 AM
alright i'm going to sleep. thank you guys for keeping me thinking. i love this show so much.

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 01:48 AM
i don't know about that. richard would never agree to help him out. he'd probably rather die. i think Esau was taking richard just for the hell of it, since Richard is obviously the most knowledgeable member left from that team.

He seems to be just as knowledgeable if not more regarding the island and whatnot so I think he needs him for something but it could be something as little as a bartering with whomever/whatever to get home

Astrid
02-03-2010, 01:56 AM
the differences on the plane are really bothering me as well. i read that shannon declined to rejoin the cast, so that explains her absence. but hurley's luck makes no sense. i suppose perhaps if the swan were never built, the button wouldnt have had to be pressed, the numbers never would have become bad luck? which would explain why the major characters werent sitting in the same seats corresponding to the numbers?

i dont know..

Monklish
02-03-2010, 02:01 AM
Well clearly they have some new plotlines planned for the 2004 timeline. Gotta do something to keep it fresh and put a spin on it. They put in clues that it's different (e.g. Hurley's luck) to tip us off to the new reality. I find the Charlie trying to choke to death on his heroin after he's already on the plane to be one of the more interesting paths. Can't wait to see what reason they pull out for that.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 02:02 AM
I wish that you could call people cocksuckers with reckless abandon on any of the Lost forums--I'd go lulz it up in there.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 02:11 AM
is that prohibited?

Monklish
02-03-2010, 02:12 AM
Looks like. Pretty lame. I wish all forums were as awesomely ripe for the plucking as this one.

Astrid
02-03-2010, 02:16 AM
i like this interpretation

It's possible that in the new timeline Hurley won with different numbers. If the island blew up the numbers never would have been transmitted, Leonard Sims never would have learned them, and so on. Just like in the alternate timeline all of the same things are happening, but there are subtle differences. Jack still ended up saving Charlie after he was choked to death, it just happen in a slightly different fashion. Jack and Locke ended up meeting, and i am willing to bet that Kate is going to deliver Claire's baby, just like she did in Season 1. Whatever Happened, Happened...

okay. i need to stop now. im becoming a lost cocksucker...

Monklish
02-03-2010, 02:18 AM
Ooo, that sounds pretty damn likely.

obzen
02-03-2010, 02:20 AM
Pfff.

digitaldragon03
02-03-2010, 03:24 AM
Were all discussing the wrong things. What we need to talk about is Un-Locke's fucking death stare.

I want to go home.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/digitaldragon03/EvilLocke.jpg

atom heart
02-03-2010, 04:45 AM
That Sayid's newly acquired undead status is uninteresting kind of misses the point.
Sayid is dead. The man that got up after having been drowned in the polluted spring is Jacob. He's Not Sayid.

*waits for a Not Sayid vs Not Locke showdown*

SDsoldier7
02-03-2010, 06:09 AM
You could say Charlie saved everyone if you're gonna say Charlie saved Desmond. He just wrote a little blurb on his hand. It was Desmond who kept trying to save Charlie throughout the whole season.

Maybe Desmond was somehow responsible for Jack saving Charlie on the plane? Once Charlie was revived, Desmond wasn't needed anymore. Long shot.

And yeah, Desmond could have been anywhere. He totally could have been on the plane if there was never a Swan station in which for him to reside.

It was so awesome seeing what amounted to an extended play of the Oceanic flight. That was my favorite part of the episode.

.

You could say Charlie saved Desmond directly in that the Russian Eye-Patch dude intended to kill both Charlie and Desmond when blowing up the underwater station. In the heat of the moment, Charlie figured he would give Des a chance to survive by sealing off the room that had the leak. Thus allowing Des to survive, while Charlie drowns.

It appears safe to say that the swan/hatch is independent of des crashing on the island. Des will crash on the island regardless of whether or not the swan is built....right?

SDsoldier7
02-03-2010, 06:20 AM
also, how does Juliett know that Farradays plan worked? when u die in time line 1, do you see time line 2?

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 08:13 AM
I really love the black and white parallels that we have seen in all of the seasons up til now. The writers have constantly put the viewer in the dark and given us a passage into the light and as soon as we think we know what is going on and can see we are thrust back into the dark. Just as the central themes of the characters and location and time yin and yang.

I really hope Desmond is the "Billy Pilgrim" of season 6, but more over I think we the viewer are the "Billy Pilgrim" of LOST.

Also I want to post this again and again because its so relevant.

XjsgoXvnStY

invisiblerobots
02-03-2010, 08:34 AM
i don't know about that. richard would never agree to help him out. he'd probably rather die. i think Esau was taking richard just for the hell of it, since Richard is obviously the most knowledgeable member left from that team.

I think there's more to it than that, there's no way that he'd just be taking him just for the hell of it. Maybe Richard died as a result of those crushing blows and Esau is going to use his form to enter the temple.

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 08:53 AM
SPOILER

I'm so cool with Juliet being dead. I hope she stays that way. Not a fan of her. I better not see shannon's face anytime soon.

I don't understand why Desmond was on the plane though. Technically shouldn't he still be on the island with the Dharma crew?

Also...Jacob's nemesis is the smoke monster? and invincible?

Shannon will not be on this season. She has some project going on in Europe. That's one of the reasons why the writers made the alternate reality a little different here and there. Plus, since the hatch never got built, Desmond never went to the island. What a coincidence he got on that flight right?

atom heart
02-03-2010, 08:59 AM
It appears safe to say that the swan/hatch is independent of des crashing on the island. Des will crash on the island regardless of whether or not the swan is built....right?

Des wouldn't have crashed if there was nothing to crash into-- and given that the island is underwater in Bizarro Jack's timeline then that seems to be the case.

i812many
02-03-2010, 09:07 AM
Remember with stewardess he originally says "this breaks some critical FAA regulations," and now he says "it'll be our little secret." Lost is usually so dead on with this stuff (see: the plane crash in real time youtube vide), that it almost seems meaningful that they changed it up this time around.

I just watched the first one last week and I'm pretty sure she hands him two bottles too.

Also why didn't Jack remember Desmond from when they were running in the stadium? Did that never happen either?

DRcube
02-03-2010, 09:10 AM
last nights episode was great...i almost got nauseated thinking about all the little stuff that mightve happened with this whole parallel universe

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 09:11 AM
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/final_season_of_lost_promises_to

this cracked me up.


SPOILER

I'm so cool with Juliet being dead. I hope she stays that way. Not a fan of her.

i'm glad she's gone, but i hate lost for making me sad about her death. SHE DIDN'T GET TO FINISH HER SENTENCE! i'm so glad they buried her & didn't take her to the temple. you know she wouldn't have wanted that.


I like the island lore more than the actual characters so this season is looking great

agreed


Was it just me or did it seem like (from all the recaps at least) Christian is going to play a big role in this season?

perhaps, but who is christian? was christian taken to the temple or is christian a sort of aparation of the smoke monster like locke is now?


i would assume theyre going to bring back all the characters that are on the poster in some form or another. eko, penny, shannon, michael, walt, farraday, charlotte, and ana lucia. i would be happy if only eko and farraday came back. walt and penny are acceptable as well.

terry o'quinn was fucking awesome in this episode. shhhhit.

my dad kept wondering where ana lucia was lol, he loves her for some reason. and yes, terry o'quinn was awesome. death stare indeed!!!


Also I loved seeing Ilana's thug think he outsmarted smokie and then get impaled.

ha ha ha, yes, the smoke monster was so evil last night. i also loved when ben asked ilana "i'm sorry but who are you?"



i want to know why the island is under water. and what are the implications of all the other people who would have been on the island during the time of the original 815 flight. ben, julliette??

i want to know this too. also, was desmond REALLY on the plane? we never saw him deboard.


So Richard was a slave on the Black Rock, amirite?

good guess.



h and hello, John and Yoko! When they said "The Temple" I didn't realize they meant an actual operating temple behind an old facade of a temple. Crazy Lost.

i loved this too. so glad to hear the whispers in the temple too.


What did everyone think when he said "I'm disappointed in all of you"? Did he want them to destroy everything like he predicted to prove Jacob wrong? They fought all the time so that had me confused

i thought that was one of the most awesome villain lines ever.


Why is no one talking about Sayid coming back to life!!! WTF was in that water!

the blood of that dude? who knows, but i bet sayid won't be right after this. makes you wonder how many people on the island were revived by the temple water itself (ben) and how many are just aparitions or being controlled by the smoke monster (russo's people). or are they one in the same?


Whats up with the blood on Jacks neck?

i wondered this too. very strange.

god i love lost. can't wait to re-watch tonight. and i hate everyone at my work that thinks sayid is a reincarnation of jacob.

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 09:12 AM
That Sayid's newly acquired undead status is uninteresting kind of misses the point.
Sayid is dead. The man that got up after having been drowned in the polluted spring is Jacob. He's Not Sayid.

*waits for a Not Sayid vs Not Locke showdown*

I actually really like this idea, but I'm not sure. I think it might in fact be Sayid resurrected. I mean, did anybody else notice the biblical imagery with the healing process?

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 09:14 AM
how could you NOT notice the biblical imagery?!?! it was getting all matrix revolutions up in that shit for a second. well, matrix meets mr. miagi :p

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 09:17 AM
the blood of that dude? who knows, but i bet sayid won't be right after this. makes you wonder how many people on the island were revived by the temple water itself (ben) and how many are just aparitions or being controlled by the smoke monster (russo's people). or are they one in the same?

It's not his blood, the dude stuck his hand in the water to see if it would heal him after the John Lennon-ish guy noted that it would be risky to use it because it's not clear

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 09:20 AM
perhaps, but who is christian? was christian taken to the temple or is christian a sort of aparation of the smoke monster like locke is now?


I don't think the temple is able to heal totally dead people. As the show has said, dead is dead. Christian seems to have been in cahoots with Smokie. However, I do not believe Zombie Dad was an apparition of Smokie. My reason being that anytime Flocke wanted to do something else (e.g. appear as Ben's daughter) he had to "conveniently" disappear. So I have a strong belief Christian has something else going on entirely. What that thing is I'm not sure but it's actually one of the great mysteries that has been set up in the show since ep 1

bballarl
02-03-2010, 09:50 AM
I think we are probably reading too much into the if-the-plane-landed storyline. My guess is that, rather than serving as part of the overall mystery/resolution, it is just an indicator that their lives would be shitty in different ways even if they hadn't landed on the island. Jin and Sun wouldn't be getting along. Locke wouldn't be able to walk still, although he would be alive. Kate would be on the run. Charlie would be trying to kill himself cause he's a failed musician and addict. Etc. Their lives would still be shitty (and maybe even shittier) if the plane had just landed like it was supposed to. All of this would tie into the whole "things happen for a reason, you can't undo the past, blahblahblah" thematic arc that the show is obviously building towards.

That said, this is Lost, so I could be wrong. I just don't see the whole plane landing angle having an effect on what is going on on the island, but instead working towards the overall message of the show.

Sexecutioner
02-03-2010, 09:50 AM
i think it really was the swan station they saw after the h-bomb went off, but that maybe they built it for a different reason this time, and not to contain the electromagnetic forces like they did the first time around. thats why the station still got built, but the plane never crashed, because there was no force to bring down the plane. and by setting off the bomb in the 70s, it also changed the course of other events in this parallel universe's future. thats why hurley is now lucky, etc. anytime you change events in the past, it supposedly causes a chain reaction and affects the future.

so after the bomb went off and they time traveled, do we know what time they went to? the present? and yea, how did juliiette know the plan worked?

what i really want to know is how the fuckin island got underwater!! after season one my friend mentioned one theory he heard was that the island was the lost city of atlantis. probably not the case, but interesting guess anyway.

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 09:52 AM
i like that perspective andrew. i took it a bit further to wonder if jack would make locke walk again (just like locke walked again on the island). but perhaps that was just a reversing of the whole "man of science, man of faith" thing.

signmeup
02-03-2010, 09:56 AM
how about when the flight attendant said they were on the first plane, how many crashes have there been now?

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 09:58 AM
how about when the flight attendant said they were on the first plane, how many crashes have there been now?

the ajira crash man

Sexecutioner
02-03-2010, 09:58 AM
I think we are probably reading too much into the if-the-plane-landed storyline. My guess is that, rather than serving as part of the overall mystery/resolution, it is just an indicator that their lives would be shitty in different ways even if they hadn't landed on the island. Jin and Sun wouldn't be getting along. Locke wouldn't be able to walk still, although he would be alive. Kate would be on the run. Charlie would be trying to kill himself cause he's a failed musician and addict. Etc. Their lives would still be shitty (and maybe even shittier) if the plane had just landed like it was supposed to. All of this would tie into the whole "things happen for a reason, you can't undo the past, blahblahblah" thematic arc that the show is obviously building towards..

agreed, at the end of last season i was wondering why jack would want to undo everything theyve gone through, since it seemed like alot of people were better off now. and i wonder if rose still has cancer in the new timeline, or if that's one of the things that is different...

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 09:59 AM
Goddamn pen.

Possible spoilers.....not really....probably
http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/


EW: The whole idea of flash-sideways and the plan to use season 6 to show us a world where Oceanic 815 never crashed — how long has that been in the works? Why did you want to do it?
DAMON LINDELOF: It’s been in play for at least a couple of years. We knew that the ending of the time travel season was going to be an attempt to reboot. And as a result, we [knew] the audience was going to come out of the “do-over moment” thinking we were either going start over or just say it didn’t work and continue on. [We thought] wouldn’t it be great if we did both? That was the origin of the story.
CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.”
LINDELOF: Right out of the gate, in the first five minutes of the premiere, you get hit over the head with two things that you’re not expecting. The first is that Desmond is on the plane. The second thing that we do is we drop out of the plane and we go below the water and we see that the Island is submerged. What we’re trying to do there is basically say to you, “God bless the survivors of Oceanic 815, because they’re so self-centered, they thought the only effect [of detonating the bomb] was going to be that their plane never crashes.” But they don’t stop to think, “If we do this in 1977, what else is going to affected by this?” So that their entire lives can be changed radically. In fact, it would appear that they’ve sunken the Island. That’s our way of saying, “Keep your eyes peeled for the differences that you’re not expecting.” Some of these characters were still in Australia, but some weren’t. Shannon’s not there. Boone actually says that he tried to get her back. There are all sorts of other people that we don’t see. Where’s Libby? Where’s Ana Lucia? Where’s Eko? These are all the things that you’re supposed to be thinking about. When our characters posited the “What if?” scenario, they neglected to think about what the other effects of potentially changing time might be and we’re embracing those things.

That said, are you saying definitively that detonating Jughead was the event that created this new timeline? Or is that a mystery which the season 6 story will reveal?
LINDELOF: It’s a mystery. A big one.
CUSE: We did have some concern that it might be confusing kind of going into the season. To clear that up a little bit: The archetypes of the characters are the same and that’s the most significant thing. Kate is still a fugitive. If you were to look at the Comic-Con video, for instance, that now comes into play. There was a different scenario in that story. She basically blew up an apprentice plumber as opposed to killing her biological father/stepfather. Those kind of differences exist, but who the characters fundamentally are is the same. If it becomes too confusing for you, you can just follow the flash sideways for what they are. It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

Is there a relationship between Island reality and sideways reality? Will they run parallel for the remainder of the season? Will they fuse together? Might one fade away?
LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.
CUSE: But the questions you’re asking are exactly the right questions. What are we to make of the fact that they’re showing us two different timelines? Are they going to resolve? Are they going to connect? Are they going to co-exist in parallel fashion? Are they going to cross? Do they intersect? Does one prove to be viable and the other one not? I think those are all the kind of speculations that are the right speculations to be having at this point in the season.
LINDELOF: But it is going to require patience. We’ve taught the audience how to be patient thus far, so while they’re getting a lot of mythological answers on the island early in the season, this idea of what is the relationship between the two [worlds] is a little bit more of a slow burn.

Did Jughead really sink the Island? And is it possible that the Sideways characters are now caught in a time loop in which they might have to go back in time and fulfill the obligation to continuity by detonating the bomb?
LINDELOF: These questions will be dealt with on the show. Should you infer that the detonation of Jughead is what sunk the island? Who knows? But there’s the Foot. What do you get when you see that shot? It looks like New Otherton got built. These little clues [might help you] extrapolate when the Island may have sunk. Start to think about it. A couple of episodes down the road, some of the characters might even discuss it. We will say this: season 6 is not about time travel. It’s about the implications, the aftermath, and the causality of trying to change the past. But the idea of continuing to do paradoxical storytelling is not what we’re interested in this year.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 10:00 AM
The two story lines are going to converge and it will be meaningful. Lost does it every season, most notably in seasons 4 through now. It's a screenwriting thing called closing the gap--you provide just enough information to the audience to make it clear to them that they're missing an important link between two points, and then it gives you power as you fill it in. Every season since two has had the main constant island story that only moves forward in mostly normal time, and then the supplementary storyline. The two progress until the gap closes and they converge.

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 10:04 AM
The two story lines are going to converge and it will be meaningful. Lost does it every season, most notably in seasons 4 through now. It's a screenwriting thing called closing the gap--you provide just enough information to the audience to make it clear to them that they're missing an important link between two points, and then it gives you power as you fill it in. Every season since two has had the main constant island story that only moves forward in mostly normal time, and then the supplementary storyline. The two progress until the gap closes and they converge.

time loops?

Monklish
02-03-2010, 10:08 AM
That's where I lose it. I stopped trying to guess with this show a while ago--they're genuinely too inventive. If I had to guess though, my gut tells me that we'll be getting the answers about why and how the island travels through time probably from Desmond's mother or some similarly knowledgeable figure and she will fill in either the 2004 or 2007 peeps on what went on while trying to fix whatever the problem is its caused. I guess 2004, because the island likely ain't supposed to be sunk. Though I don't know how the fuck you'd convince somebody of that.

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 10:10 AM
Island being underwater = Bad news for LAXer's

Those people who landed in LA are about to have their lives shit on

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 10:10 AM
Farradays mother

Monklish
02-03-2010, 10:17 AM
Farradays mother

Right right, my mistake. Ol' Whitey Hair, whatever the fuck her name and offspring might be.

Who knows, maybe Desmond's mother is some time-traveling skank too.

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 10:23 AM
thanks for posting, J$$$. clears up some things around the office. this one guy won't stop saying that the shots of 815 landing are "flash forwards" and will be how the season ends. time to set bitches straight.

ShyGuy75
02-03-2010, 10:36 AM
anyone address the issue of the loophole not being done correctly since the fake locke kicked jacob into the fire, causing jacob to get a 2nd chance which he is using by going thru sayid?

Monklish
02-03-2010, 10:37 AM
Sure, I'll address it: we have no idea if that's the case yet.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 10:41 AM
In fact I don't think it's that at all. Not Jacob at least, and not Not Locke either.

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 10:47 AM
thanks for posting, J$$$. clears up some things around the office. this one guy won't stop saying that the shots of 815 landing are "flash forwards" and will be how the season ends. time to set bitches straight.

The creators said point blank that they were done with Flash forwards/backs. They said they were going to use a "new" device this season and a alternate reality definitely counts.

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 10:51 AM
The creators said point blank that they were done with Flash forwards/backs. They said they were going to use a "new" device this season and a alternate reality definitely counts.

damn ***** learn to read....sixth dimension shit...


LINDELOF: For us, the big risk that we’re taking in the final season of the show is basically this very question. [Lindelof then explains the show has replaced the trademark “whoosh!” sound effect marking the segue between Island present story and flashbacks or flash-forwards, thus calling conspicuous attention to the relationship between the Island world and the Sideways world.] This is the critical mystery of the season, which is, “What is the relationship between these two shows?” And we don’t use the phrase “alternate reality,” because to call one of them an “alternate reality” is to infer that one of them isn’t real, or one of them is real and the other is the alternate to being real.

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 10:52 AM
Fine, they aren't calling it an "alternate reality". What would you call it then? Sixth dimension is lame

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 10:54 AM
anyone address the issue of the loophole not being done correctly since the fake locke kicked jacob into the fire, causing jacob to get a 2nd chance which he is using by going thru sayid?

The thing with Jacob taking over Sayid is that's not what Smoky does I mean Locke's body is still on the beach so he doesn't take control of their bodies after death. Or at least that's how I see it, I think Sayid is Sayid but he is probably gonna have some weird side effects or something

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 10:56 AM
The thing with Jacob taking over Sayid is that's not what Smoky does I mean Locke's body is still on the beach so he doesn't take control of their bodies after death. Or at least that's how I see it, I think Sayid is Sayid but he is probably gonna have some weird side effects or something

Side effects, now that's putting it mildly ;)

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 11:01 AM
The thing with Jacob taking over Sayid is that's not what Smoky does I mean Locke's body is still on the beach so he doesn't take control of their bodies after death. Or at least that's how I see it, I think Sayid is Sayid but he is probably gonna have some weird side effects or something

Is it how they healed mini ben?

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 11:04 AM
I assume so

ShyGuy75
02-03-2010, 11:04 AM
the locke that is lying on the beach died in the real world, not on the island. that could matter for something.

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 11:05 AM
The thing with Jacob taking over Sayid is that's not what Smoky does I mean Locke's body is still on the beach so he doesn't take control of their bodies after death. Or at least that's how I see it, I think Sayid is Sayid but he is probably gonna have some weird side effects or something

The water in the "lazarus pit" definitely has some qualities that affect the mentality of those who are healed by it. That's why Richard tells them "If we heal him now, he will never be the same person again" when he goes to heal ben.

Also, about the alternate reality thing. The space in "LA X" is possibly a reference to comic book alternate realities (i.e Earth X)

stinkbutt
02-03-2010, 11:08 AM
the locke that is lying on the beach died in the real world, not on the island. that could matter for something.


I don't think so cuz he has taken other forms like Ben's daughter who died on the island and Eko's brother who died off

ShyGuy75
02-03-2010, 11:10 AM
wurd

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 11:11 AM
Nothing of importance, something I noticed, LOST font is the same as LAX sign.

thestripe
02-03-2010, 11:22 AM
The post-bomb Swan site is a mind fuck. It doesn't look like the pre-bomb site, it doesn't look like a post-bomb rebuilt site, and the time line doesn't suport a post-bomb rebuilt site.

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 11:34 AM
The post-bomb Swan site is a mind fuck. It doesn't look like the pre-bomb site, it doesn't look like a post-bomb rebuilt site, and the time line doesn't suport a post-bomb rebuilt site.

I might be wrong, but I think they changed the set of the blown up swan site so that they would have some rubble to dig Juliet out of.

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 11:36 AM
so are jin & sun in the same time now, just on different parts of the island? i really hope they find each other.

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 12:25 PM
so are jin & sun in the same time now, just on different parts of the island? i really hope they find each other.
they must be if Jacob is dead in both timelines

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 12:30 PM
It is Lost but I'm pretty sure they are

faxman75
02-03-2010, 12:31 PM
If Jacob is dead are the healing powers of the island presumably gone or am I reading into things wrong in assuming they are tied together?

Leeartlee
02-03-2010, 12:32 PM
If Jacob is dead are the healing powers of the island presumabley dead or am I reading into things wrong in assuming they are tied together?

Interesting theory. It could be that Jacob is the healing force of the island. But if I had to bet, I would say that the healing elements of the island are simply that: they're connected to the island itself. The island is definitely a character onto itself in the mythos of Lost.

phenomenator
02-03-2010, 12:34 PM
Maybe Jacob's death is why the water in the pit is murky

chairmenmeow47
02-03-2010, 12:35 PM
i don't know that we fully understand how the healing thing works. locke & rose were given free healing without even knowing a damned thing about the island whereas ben wasn't healed and multiple other crash survivors (such as the marshall) were not healed. also, some people have wounds heal quickly vs. being completely brought back from dying/death.

Monklish
02-03-2010, 12:36 PM
Maybe Jacob's death is why the water in the pit is murky

That's what I assumed.

tessalasset
02-03-2010, 03:57 PM
That's awesome.

J~$$$$
02-03-2010, 04:10 PM
I dont know how this ***** does it but everytime........

Ps i dont care how long it is.....



Alright, let's get started on LA X. Things I Noticed:


The Captain Has Turned on the No Paradox Sign, and Please Return Your ALT-Universe Seat Backs To Their Upright Positions

Okay, so they did it. The bomb went off, fade to white, and suddenly we're sitting next to Jack Shephard on Oceanic Flight 815 again. Here comes Cindy the flight attendant, here comes the turbulence, here comes... Bernard back from the bathroom?

When we last left The Incident, many viewers believed that destiny could be changed. Nearly as many viewers also believed that predetermination wouldn't allow it. Leave it to LOST to split the difference straight down the middle, giving us an alternate universe in which the bomb did go off, but at the same time, a Flight 815 that now exists with an entirely different set of circumstances.

There was no hiding the changes. In fact, the writers went out of their way to wave them in our faces. Jack is still sporting his Enzo haircut instead of the high and tight buzz he had back in the Pilot episode. Cindy hands him one bottle of vodka instead of two. Maybe she knows Jack won't be needing the other one to disinfect his wound this time around, or maybe she knows nothing at all. Either way, we're shown many subtle differences throughout the second half of this plane ride, and we get lots of hints and allusions to past events that, at least in this universe, will no longer come to fruition.

So yes, something did change. Maybe it's not the 100% pure virgin reset Faraday sold everyone before eating a bullet last season, but it's a reset nonetheless. Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Hugo... even the Marshall this time - everyone gets to land at LA_X. The title of the episode pretty much tells the whole story, minus whatever contract dispute kept Shannon's legs from making my hi-definition LOST experience complete.

Let's do a character-by-character rundown of our new flight roster, and see what's different and what's still the same:

Jack - The scene starts with him, and right off the bat that's important. From the beginning, you can see that Jack remembers stuff. Although he may be back in seat 23, his mind obviously hasn't fully let go of the island. Jack's initial confusion and deja vu over the turbulence is similar to when Desmond woke up flat on his back during Flashes Before Your Eyes, with only vague recollections of where he'd just been. In time, Desmond's memories began coming back to him - jogged by the beeping of his microwave, meeting Charlie on the streets of London, and his impromptu meeting with Ms. Hawking in the ring shop. Perhaps this will be true of Jack also, as the alternate timeline plays itself out.

Rose & Bernard - Of everyone on this second iteration Flight 815, Rose's dialogue seemed the most important; her words were eerily relevant to our past storyline. This makes a lot of sense, especially when you consider all the inside information Rose and Bernard seemed to be holding back during The Incident. Telling Jack to 'let go' once again echoed his father's words to him, both on the island and off. And when Jack sheepishly tells her that it looks like they made it, Rose affirms "Yeah, we sure did" with a sly hint of knowing something Jack does not.

Also go back and watch Rose's reaction when Jack asks her about Desmond, too. Her "we were sleeping" line didn't convince me one bit. Immediately afterward, Rose makes a frowning sympathy face as Jack sits down... almost as if she feels bad for having to lie to him.

Desmond - Is he really here? Probably not. We learned a lot this episode about who can be seen and not seen, and Desmond's visit seemed very similar to Charlie's visit to Hurley during The Beginning of the End. His use of "brotha!" was meant to jog Jack's memory, and we can see that it did. Ghost 815 Desmond sat down to drop some hints, because at this point hints are the best he can do. Giving Jack too much info too soon would've blown his mind, and as we already know, our characters need to make their own choices anyway.

Kate & The Marshal - This arrangement looks pretty status quo, with Kate still in shackles and the Marshal still not trusting her with anything as dangerous as silverware. I thought it was funny how Cindy couldn't come up with anything sharp to help Charlie, but everyone's apparently eating with metal knives and forks. It's also important to note that the Marshal can't get through any season premiere without a knockout head wound.

Hugo Reyes - Lots of things have changed as far as Hurley is concerned. He now owns Mr. Cluck's chicken, and is suddenly famous for doing commercials - not really his style. Even more strange however, is Hugo's new attitude toward his fortune. Original Recipe Hurley thought himself to be cursed; he'd traveled to Australia seeking the origin of the numbers and was looking to change his bad luck. New Hurley is in a totally opposite place - he's convinced that nothing bad can happen to him because he's "the luckiest guy alive". How this plays out remains to be seen, but for now we're seeing a backward version of Hugo.

Jin & Sun - I have to say, I forgot how much of a dick Jin was back at the beginning of the show. If the characters in this alternate timeline somehow begin regaining memories of their on-island experiences, it's going to be interesting to see how Sun handles her husband. But hey, could there already be a little evidence that Sun remembers? The casual way in which she didn't try to hide her understanding of English jives with the fact that she hasn't had to pretend for a long time now. Original S1E1 Sun would've been a lot more careful to hide her secret around Jin.

Sawyer - Sawyer's the same super-observant opportunist he was back in season one, without so much as a single change so far. I could totally see him helping cover for Kate as she escaped: one con artist helping a fellow con artist out of a tight spot, like Kate did for Cassidy. The way he sized Hugo up after finding out about his lottery winnings, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sawyer setting him up for a mark. He seemed to take Hurley's "nothing bad ever happens to me" line almost as a challenge.

Locke & Boone - It was just plain awesome to see Boone again. Watching him talk to Locke brought back a ton of great season one nostalgia, and their conversation was filled with echoes of their on-island relationship. It's hard to believe it's been five whole years since he's been gone, and I really missed him.

So was John Locke telling the truth about finally getting to take his walkabout? Nah. Season one Locke lived in a fantasy world - he only dreamt of doing great things. Getting turned away in Australia was embarrassing for him, and rather than admit that failure he began making stuff up when he told Boone all about his trip. These were only the things he wished he'd done. It was safe for Locke to lie his ass off here, because he knew Boone would be long gone by the time his wheelchair was brought up to help him de-boarded the plane.

The coolest thing about the Locke/Boone reunion was their handshake at the end. Although neither of these characters might remember each other right now, Locke seemed to be making amends... and Boone seemed to be forgiving him. Awesome moment.

Sayid - Haven't seen much of Sayid just yet, but his ability to kick things seemed intact. Not sure whether we'll see a Nadia reunion, but after twice showing us her photo I guess that might be where we're heading.

Charlie - We have to remember that Charlie was a miserable wreck on Flight 815... he's hooked on drugs, and his brother Liam just refused to put the band back together. While he didn't intend to kill himself in that bathroom, Charlie's words to Jack were a little too close to home for him not to know something. Is he totally in on things? I don't think so. But for some reason, Charlie inherently knows his fate.


For Those Seated on the Left Side of The Aircraft, Please Enjoy a Spectacular View of the Shattered Remains of Seasons One Through Five...

Seeing the submerged wreckage of the island was dramatic and cool, and seemed geared toward showing us that - in the ALT timeline anyway - the bomb really did go off. Could a nuclear blast really cause a whole island to sink? Who the hell knows? I think maybe the CGI guys were just looking for an excuse to work that Dharma shark in there one more time.


Jack & Sayid... Kicking Down Doors and Saving Lives Since 2004

In another direct reflection of season one, Jack saves Charlie's life - again. This isn't the second, third, or even fourth time Charlie's life has been saved, and he seems more destined to die than ever before. This time around, Charlie even knows it. As he venomously drops the hint that he's "supposed to die", Charlie's words solidify yet another of Jack's ethereal ties to the island. When this happens enough times, I think Jack will start to remember.

This is also a good time to point out a strange line of dialogue from season one, during All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues. After Ethan drags Charlie off and Jack is chasing after him, he tells Kate "I'm not letting him do this. Not again." Is Jack referring to Ethan taking Claire earlier in the season? Maybe. At the same time though, it also seems as if Jack knows what's happened before, and this time around he's looking to change the outcome. If you ask me, Charlie was supposed to die at that tree. Jack brought him back through sheer force of will... call it faith, belief, or whatever. From that moment on, death always surrounded Charlie. As Desmond proved over and over in season three, there was just no saving him. Even now, in this alternate timeline, Jack is still trying to prevent his friend from dying. It might not be long before destiny course corrects by killing Charlie in some other way.

Examine Charlie's many deaths a little more closely, and they all have one thing in common: not breathing. Desmond saw him drown (once in a dream, once in reality), Ethan hangs him to asphyxiation, and we see a vision in which he gets shot in the throat with an arrow. Now, in this episode, Charlie's choking on a big bag of heroin. Whatever happened to kill Charlie must apparently happen again and again, in the same basic way, no matter where, when or what universe he happens to be in.


Jack's New Hickey Doesn't Mean He Joined The 5-Mile High Club

Jammed up in that little bathroom, Jack doesn't remember how he got that mark any more than we do. Yet there's a pretty good reason we see a mirrored view of the wound on Jack's neck, and that's because it's exactly where that wound exists... in the mirror only.

Traditionally, mirrors have played a huge part all throughout LOST. In almost every case, they've reflected back the raw truth. Maybe they've even given us a glimpse into the elusive 'other side'. Whatever happened to cause the wound on Jack's neck, perhaps it only happened in the one "true" universe. It's possible the mirror is reflecting back something that happens to Jack later on, or maybe even at the end of the show. It's important to realize that we never see this wound directly, but only in the mirror.


One Big Round of Time-Travel Hangovers For Everyone

And so here we are again, this time in a universe in which Jughead apparently did not go off. Moving our heroes from 1977 to 2007 finally synchs up our two separate island timelines, paving the way for the long overdue Sun/Jin reunion. And an even more convenient event? The fact that their van came with them.

Kate waking up in that tree was a fairly big clue - another prime example of a character suddenly appearing at a specific 'respawn' point. We've seen it with Jack when he returned via Ajira 316, and we've seen it when both Ben and Locke ended up in the same little corner of the Tunisian desert. So if Kate's tree seems familiar, maybe it reminds you of the tree the smoke monster dropped 815's pilot, Seth Norris into. Or perhaps you remember Bernard's first appearance on the island, strapped into his seat and stuck high up in a very similar position. This isn't simple coincidence... Kate wasn't stuck up in that tree just so we could check out her ass (although I'd accept that line of thinking). There's a definite reason our characters seem to wake up or enter certain scenes in a strangely limited number of places, just as they seem destined to repeat the same events and experiences over and over again.


Think Sawyer Was Angry When He Choked Out His Dad? That Was Nothing.

I have to admit, the Sawyer scenes were hard to watch. After what just happened, he had every right to be brutally enraged. We tend to forget that Sawyer and Juliet had three whole years to form their bond, but from the moment Jack & company showed back up on the island, it only took a few days for them to crash the whole Dharma party. The broken wreckage of the Swan hatch - and not the construction site - directly reflected the failure of Jack's reset plan, and Sawyer wholly blames him for Juliet's death.

To be a little more fair to Jack, the reset plan was Faraday's to begin with. Jack did all of the convincing however, and for that he's got even more blood on his hands. The leadership role is always a tough one, and Jack has seized the reins more than anyone else on LOST. He's also failed more times than he's succeeded, and admittedly doesn't know where they are, or what to do next. Unless he can somehow bring Juliet back, Jack's relationship with Sawyer is irrevocably broken. But then again, "nothing is irreversible".


You're Going To Want To Be Asleep For The Trip Dr. Burke. It's a Hell of a Ride...

Like most big LOST deaths, Juliet's final scene was touching and awesome. Her character had come a long way, and her story was made more complete by getting to die in Sawyer's arms. For all the answers she held back from us in seasons three and four, Juliet's parting gift to us on her deathbed (and just beyond) was extremely significant: we now know that she 'went' somewhere when she died. An hour later, John Locke would talk about this very thing in his placid conversation with Jack.

"We should get coffee sometime. We could go dutch." As she gets closer to death, Juliet's consciousness begins flashing backward through her past life, much the way Charlotte's did during Dead is Dead. When she comes back to Sawyer for her final moments, she needs to tell him something important. Like many people, I thought she'd reveal to him that she was pregnant. But then I thought more about that, and it just seemed a shitty thing to do. Juliet already knows Sawyer's going to have a hard enough time letting go of her when she dies - there's little need to add more of a burden to his already heavy shoulders.

After passing over to the other side - probably quite literally at this point - Miles is forced to commune with Juliet. You can tell from the look in his eyes that he won't be able to do it. "It doesn't work that way", he tells Sawyer. Aside from not wanting to talk to his recently-dead friend, it also appeared Miles genuinely knew he wouldn't be able to make a connection. When Sawyer pushed him down on her grave, Miles made up his mind to play along. As he'd done before for some of his other clients, Miles intended to tell Sawyer whatever would've made him feel better or ease his grief.

But then suddenly, Juliet did speak to him. You can tell how completely surprised Miles was that the connection was made. Juliet's message to Sawyer wasn't a simple "It worked", either... it was an exuberant, animated "It WORKED!" in exactly the way Miles delivered it to him. This wasn't just Miles being shocked, it was a direct and excited message from Juliet to Sawyer. In his grief, Sawyer missed the point of her words, but to us? Wherever Juliet now "is", she's totally aware of the reset. And not only is she aware of it, but she seems extremely psyched that it happened. As far as I'm concerned, this helps lend some level of importance to the alternate timeline. It also makes us question whether dead really is dead, or if everyone who's passed on from LOST is enjoying a great big party on the other side, waiting for everyone else to show up.


If You Strike Me Down, I Will Become More Powerful...

Jacob looks good for someone who just died an hour ago. In his second meeting with Hurley there are no riddles... no hidden messages or untold secrets. Jacob tells Hugo his name, where he needs to go in order to save Sayid, and what he needs to bring with him. When Hurley mentions that Jin will be back, Jacob nonchalantly lets him know that his friend won't be able see him. Hell, Jacob even flat out tells him why. It's season six, and it looks like answers will be a lot easier to come by.

We've seen many instances throughout LOST where characters have seen ghosts, visions, and people who may or may not be there. It started with Jack's father Christian, and from there it snowballed in every direction. Ben seeing his mother... Hugo seeing Charlie at Santa Rosa... even minor characters like Goodwin's wife Harper have miraculously shown up, handed out important advice, and then seemingly disappeared into thin air. This is the first time however, that an apparition makes reference to knowingly being unseen. Wherever Jacob now "is", he's somehow still able to reveal himself to Hugo in a very Ben Kenobi-like way.

As far as Hugo goes, most of you already know how I feel about him. Hurley is blessed by the ability to see things exactly as they are, and this includes seeing things that other people don't. He's been visited by more dead characters than anyone in the show; he's seen both Charlie and Ana Lucia after they died, and even played chess with the ghost of Mr. Eko. Hugo was also somehow able to see Jacob's cabin, despite how hard it was to find that thing.

Hurley's guitar case seems to be Jacob's plan B. Maybe it was his plan A, for that matter. Either way, Jacob had scouted out a contingency for Sayid's death and made Hurley carry it all the way to the island. His nemesis may think he's won the game, but Jacob is still playing.


C'mon Bram... You Gotta Do Better Than That

You know, I really thought Bram had his shit together. After Miles' quick abduction and that little conversation in the van, it seemed like Bram and Illana were part of a pretty tight operation. Yet here he comes with nothing more than a gun, an attitude, and a little bag of ash. If this is a reflection of the rest of Bram's team, the shadow statue people should be about as effective as The Others.

In this scene we finally learn what many of us had already suspected: this new version of Locke actually is the smoke monster. Since Dead is Dead his mannerisms, echo-like voice changes, and the way he passed judgment on Ben pretty much gave that away. We even get one last vocal clue in the deep, reverberating way Locke asks Ben "Where's Richard?" As Ben enters the chamber, it's as if we catch the entity switching back to use Locke's own voice.

It was extremely significant that Locke gave Bram's team a choice before killing them. He explained that Jacob was dead, and presented their situation in a straightforward, logical way. They were basically free to go, at least up until Bram fired his gun. Once that happened, judgment could be passed. This is also why Richard is so adamant that no one on the beach shoot Locke, screaming for them to hold their fire when he finally emerges from the statue.

Going a bit further, this also explains why the smoke monster doesn't just kill anyone and everyone it comes across. We already know that the dark man disapproves of Jacob bringing people to the island. In keeping with the rules however, he seems unable to touch anyone unless he's judged them first, or unless they've wronged him in some way. Not sure how or why it killed Seth Norris or Nadine... but both of those characters had just arrived on the island so maybe there was a exception clause. Or maybe the smoke monster hadn't eaten in a while, and he was just plain hungry.

Bram's circle of ash is something the monster apparently can't cross. Perhaps this solves the mystery of Jacob's cabin: it wasn't Jacob's at all. If the cabin served as a type of prison, then the circle of ash there was used to keep the entity or monster in and not out. This may by why Illana's team burned the cabin to the ground upon reaching the island - possibly on Jacob's orders. In any case, Bram's plan A sucked, and his plan B was non-existant.


The Barefoot, Rocket-Shooting, Gun-Happy, Temple-Dwelling Other Others

As we finally get to see inside the temple, more huge answers are finally revealed. One of the bigger long-standing mysteries? Just what happened to Cindy, Zach, and Emma.

The people living inside these temple walls are a more serious, hardcore version of Ben's barracks-dwelling Others. Like Oldham, they've decried modern invention and everyday convenience. They've even kicked off their shoes, allowing their bare feet to constantly touch the earth. This puts them more in tuned with the island than anyone sipping tea at Juliet's air-conditioned book club, because these Others are taking things back to the oldskool.

This is the way Widmore led his people, before Ben moved everyone into the barracks. As a result, these Others seem a lot more educated as to what's going on. They know of Jacob, and of the dangers of his enemy. They also know how to keep the dark man from crashing their party: with a giant circle of ash. They don't seem worried about this however, until Hurley reveals that Jacob is dead. Once that slips out, everyone becomes very, very on edge. Break out the fireworks and karate.

It's also kinda cool to think this isn't the first time we saw these Others. As Jin and Mr. Eko lay crouched in those bushes back in season two, they watched the dirty bare feet of these others, as well as the children, drag themselves through the jungle. Later on, we'd assume this was part of Mr. Friendly's posse - especially after the fake beard. But in reality, what we probably saw here was this group of more radical island dwellers, lead by this trigger-happy Japanese dude who hates English.

Ah... but what's the deal with Cindy? Here she is, dressed as if she just raided Yoko Ono's closet. In Stranger in a Strange Land however, we saw a very different Cindy, Zach, and Emma. That time around, when Jack saw them for the first time, they wore completely normal clothes. They looked washed up and ready for church. So which is it? Where does Cindy fit in, and how did she get there? Were the kids (and other members of the tail section) originally taken by the temple-dwellers, and if so, how did they end up in Ben's group of Others? Many pieces of this puzzle just don't fit, and at this point I'm not sure there's even a right way to put them together. Hopefully someone will shake Cindy down for some hard answers, because it's LONG past that time.


The Egyptian Homegoods Store Called... They Want Their Tacky 2-Foot Wooden Ankh Back

God I was happy when the temple leader smashed that thing over his knee. It looked absolutely ridiculous, and if it was going to take some reverent place in LOST lore I was fully prepared to go berserk. "Behold!!! The sacred wooden ankh of Jacob!!!" Please.

Leave it to Jacob to slide his note into something he knew Hurley wouldn't mess with. It was funny how he knew Hugo would open and look inside the case, too. If he'd seen a piece of paper, Jacob knew Hugo would've certainly read it. This is why Hurley couldn't carry that note in his wallet, and instead had to drag Charlie's guitar case on board Ajira 316. The case probably served double-duty as a proxy, too.


Excuse Me... I Carried That Case Across The Ocean, and Like, Though Time? I Wanna Know What That Paper Says

There were many great lines this episode, and this was one of the best. Seems like the only thing that saved everyone from getting ventilated was another one of Jacob's "lists". This one contained the names of everyone present, and apparently, every single one of them is highly important to the overall master plan.

Jacob's lists have always been critical to LOST's story. He's not very big on communication, so these lists are all his followers really have to go on. I've long theorized that the people listed by Jacob are the ones integral to the end game - without every single one of them, Jacob's final ending cannot be realized. This could be why the hippy with the wire-rimmed glasses tells us that Sayid had better pull through, or there's going to be BIG trouble. As they called out their names, I also realized that we were cycling through every single one of the characters that Jacob had already touched during The Incident. Sawyer shows up later on, and he's been touched too. But Miles? Uh oh.


Where Did They Get That Brown Water... From the Old MXC Set?

In the inner sanctum, we finally get a glimpse of what might have happened to Ben on the day Richard brought him to the temple. Hopefully the water was a lot clearer that day, and the results were a little better. I also have to admit, when the Japanese dude flipped that giant sand-timer over I had to chuckle. They held Sayid underwater like they were trying to boil up the perfect egg, and then walked away defeated when they overcooked him.

The water was probably brown due to Jacob's death. This may be why the leader believed Hurley without further question. It's probably also why his hand wasn't healed... I guess cutting your hand and dipping it into the water was a ritual meant to demonstrate the water's healing properties. When the leader's cut remained the same, we kinda already knew Sayid was screwed.

If the water is tied to Jacob, then maybe Jacob himself has been responsible for the island's mythical healing properties. Now that he's gone, maybe things will be different. They mentioned it was a spring, which means it probably runs beneath the entire island. Personally, I didn't need a physical reference point for why or how the island can heal - at first glance, I was afraid the resurrection pool was going to be a bit much. In the end it wasn't too bad, but I definitely could've done without the giant egg timer.

As Sayid is pronounced dead, Jack once again refuses to believe it. His futile attempts at reviving him exactly mirror the already-mentioned S1 scene in which Charlie dies after being hanged by Ethan. Kate was in that scene too, trying to call Jack off and tell him it's over. The only difference here was that Jack didn't make a second effort - he didn't beat Sayid on the chest until he gasped for breath. Even so, Sayid miraculously does come back from the land of the dead - just like Charlie - fulfilling the end of the scene anyway. Another loop closed.

So what happens now? Is Sayid still Sayid, or is he now a 'candidate' for Jacob? As much as I hate to say it, we've probably seen the end of the asskicking Iraqi we all know and love. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it would make more sense for Jacob to somehow inhabit Sayid's body here, especially since he was the one who sent that body to the temple. Go back and look at Jacob's face while he's talking to Hurley and examining Sayid's wounds. Even he knows the guy is too far gone. It's unfortunate, and he looks a little sorry to even do it, but I'm pretty sure Jacob's going to somehow live through this new version of Sayid. I'm still holding out hope for continued asskickings, however.


Was It Possible To Out-Creep The Season Two Face Ben Made Back In The Hatch? YUP.

In my favorite scene of this episode, we finally learn something about the dark-shirted man's true motivations. We also get an intimate glimpse of someone we thought we might never see again: the real John Locke. As Ben stands broken and unable to grasp what just happened, the smoke monster all but tells him to man up. Ben's complaint of being 'used' falls on deaf ears, and in many ways it's pretty comical when you consider just how many people Ben himself has used over the course of the show.

"Want to know what we going through his mind as you killed him? I don't understand...." This was awesome, incredible acting by Terry O' Quinn. He jumps seamlessly from the monster's persona right back into our old confused and beloved John Locke. The fact that he was inhabiting John's body made it all the more accurate, and it brought back overwhelming feelings of sympathy for the man John Locke was. He was a guy who wanted nothing more than to be loved and accepted, yet just about everyone he trusted ended up taking advantage of him. I thought it was cool how the dark man admired him for his purity, and for John's one redeeming quality: realizing how much better life on the island could be rather than worrying about how to get back to his shattered life... like everyone else.

Then Ben asks the question we've all been dying to know: "What do you want?" And as Jacob's long-time enemy explains in the simplest of terms, he just wants OUT. He's been playing the game for way too long, and he finally wants to pack it in. More importantly, he's not just looking to get off the island, he's looking to go home.

Dogma springs instantly to mind here. Although the movie itself was fairly cheesy, the premise of Loki and Bartleby, two angels cast out of heaven, totally fits. They're even looking for a loophole, too. While I'm not sure Jacob and his nemesis are a pair of fallen angels, there's certainly a higher power above them. Maybe they've been placed on the island for a specific purpose: to serve a penance all their own. Perhaps their game isn't a game at all, but a lesson that needs to be learned before they can move on. If this is the case, the island becomes their own personal Purgatory.... and yes, I said Purgatory.

The face Terry O'Quinn makes at the end of this scene absolutely scared the balls off me. It was totally unexpected and radically different than anything he's done before. We've seen Locke angry, hurt, mad, happy, and smiling with an orange peel in his mouth. But we've never, ever, EVER seen a face like the one made here. It slammed home the point that we're looking at someone who's NOT John Locke, and it was chilling to watch. I totally loved it.


Oceanic Luggage Gets Really, Really LOST

In the alternate timeline, Jack's father's coffin somehow doesn't make the plane. Ditto for Locke's case of razor-sharp knives. What does this mean to the storyline? I'm not sure just yet. But let's imagine for a moment that neither of those things were on the original Oceanic Flight 815. Let's go off on a real quick theory...

After the crash, Jack has no way of knowing that his dad's coffin wasn't on the plane. As far as he's concerned, it was. So when he starts chasing ghost-Christian through the jungle and "finds" the coffin, is Jack only seeing what he expects to see? Did he bring his father's coffin - and even his Christian himself - to the island via the magic box, much like Sawyer unknowingly brought The Man From Tallahassee? Kooky idea, but we're in season six. Ghosts, time travel, alternate timelines... the whole magic box thing goes down a lot easier these days.

Similarly, Locke's case of knives was found amongst the beach wreckage early in season one. I've long speculated that those knives were there simply because Locke wanted them to be there, but now we find out that he really did pack them. Yet if they never made the plane and they somehow still showed up on the beach... magic box? Could be. Early on we saw a lot of things brought into being by requirement, usually whenever a character needed them most.

Admittedly, Locke losing his knives could've been nothing more than a vehicle to put Jack and Locke together in their last LAX scene. But his father's coffin now missing... that certainly means something.


Science, I'd Like You To Meet Faith. Faith? Science.

As Jack and Locke meet up again at Oceanic's lost luggage counter, we get to see what could've been. These are two of LOST's biggest, most powerful characters - all throughout the show, we've seen them pitted against each other. Their opposing views and general disdain for each other has been evident since season one... even through wide-swinging role reversals, Jack Shephard and John Locke have faced off over just about everything. To see them not only getting along here but actually trying to help each other out? It was pretty damned wild.

Locke's words about Jack's missing father were meant to comfort a guy who had just lost his dad. At the same time, they're also the third direct reference this episode as to where people go when they die. Sayid asked Hurley where he thought he'd end up, and Juliet passes over to some other realm where she can consciously communicate through Miles. The well-mentioned "other side" is getting closer and closer, and I've got a feeling that pretty soon we're going to be able to see through to it.

John Locke is still a man of faith here, and Jack is still a man of science. But something is changed up a bit, as Jack begins asking Locke about how he got into that wheelchair. "Nothing's irreversible" just isn't Jack's mantra, and it stood out like a sore thumb. Giving Locke his business card means we'll probably see a Jack/Locke story later on, just as Kate getting into Claire's cab will tie those two characters together. Sawyer & Hurley? Maybe. We'll see what happens. In any event, with Jack's never-ending need to fix people, it will be interesting to see whether or not he can help John Locke walk out of the alternate universe on his own two feet.


Frank's Shirt... Still Unbuttoned All The Way Down To The Naval? Ah, Continuity!

As two full hours of LOST drew to a close, one thing became quickly obvious: John Locke is going to rock this season whether he be real, fake, or otherwise. We haven't seen this level of badassedness since Keamy went down, and the way he handled Richard was nothing but pure awesome. You? Me. Two words was all it took (plus maybe a throat-strike), and suddenly we knew a lot about the long history these characters had together.

Richard being in chains was an obvious reference to the Black Rock. This is exciting, because the slave ship and Richard's backstory are two big mysteries that absolutely need to be solved. Tying them together means we could get them both in the same episode, and hopefully soon. With a little luck, it also means we'll be seeing the dark-shirted man in his original form again. As much as I love Terry O'Quinn's version, it should be equally awesome to get a more personal glimpse of the man who finally killed Jacob.

After beating Richard like a prison inmate trying to make a statement, the monster stands up to address everyone surrounding him. "I'm very disappointed in all of you!", he shouts. Not sure what he means by this, but it struck me that maybe he's going to pretend to be Jacob. It was probably that half-smirk he made at the end. The only conscious person who'd know that he's lying would be Ben... and the last time we saw Ben he was looking for a second pair of shorts. Whatever the dark man's next move is, you can be sure it involves an asskicking.


Thoughts On The Premiere, and Season Six

Dunno about you guys, but this premiere blew me away. I expected it to, and it lived up to my expectations. Answers are coming quickly, and craziness is the norm. We're long past the point of subtle hints and slow-rolling mysteries now. As we accelerate toward the finish, the drawstrings of LOST's story are steadily and deliberately being pulled closed.

I'm looking forward to this season, to this story, and to a great series finale. We're in the home stretch, and one step closer to the zombie-season!

kitt kat
02-03-2010, 04:31 PM
I WANNA FIND OUT WHO THE SMOKE MONSTER IS RAAAA

bliss209
02-03-2010, 06:05 PM
wowzers!! amazing episode!!! I havent posted on here since the last episode of last season and I feel soooo bad for not contributing! sorry guys :)

You guys keep asking what "time" everyone is in. The "Van Crew" (Jin, Jack, Sawyer, Hugo, Sayhid, Miles) and the "Beach Crew" have to be in the same time line with one another. Noticed the night and day shots are the same and the beach crew was able to see the warning firework in the sky when the temple people shot it. So they have to be in the same time frame.

The chaos surrounding the announcement of Jacobs death at the temple gives you an idea of a war that has probably been going on since Jacob and his nemesis arrived on the island (for whatever reason that was). Remeber the conversation Jacob and his nemesis had last season when we first saw them??:
JACOB: I take it you're here because of the ship.
ENEMY: I am. How did they find the Island?
JACOB: You'll have to ask them when they get here.
ENEMY: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. Still trying to prove me wrong, aren't you?
JACOB: You are wrong.
ENEMY: Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
JACOB: It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.
ENEMY: Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?
JACOB: Yes.
ENEMY: One of these days, sooner or later... I'm going to find a loophole, my friend.
JACOB: Well, when you do, I'll be right here.

And he found his loophole! (obviously) They have also mentioned their "rules" they have had between each other which involved not killing one another. So the loophole was taking on another's being and killing him that way. And who's to say that christian really isn't the nemesis (damm I wish we had a name for this guy!!) Jacob seems to have the ability to leave the island, appear to others and travel time. His nemesis can presumably take on different forms; the smoke monster, Locke, Ben's daughter. And these guys have been here since the 1800's (as far as we know). They probably landed on the island , near death, and were picked up by the temple people and saved through the water at the temple. And this may have been what happened to Richard, as well too. and has continued on for years. Along with the side effects and "the risks" that apparently happen when you use the healing waters.

And now I think that Ben is (or was) the monsters bitch. Ben was able to use him as a "weapon" when the mercenaries were attacking the others compound. Ben hasn't really been in cahoots with the temple since he was saved, since he has more than likely abused his powers. When he was stabbing Jacob, he was asking him "what about me?" and Jacob said "what about you?". Ben has been more than likely a tool for the two of them to use.

The temple people know that the monster is not a good person and their ties have probably been severed since the beginning. Basically a line has been drawn since the 1800's; the good guys and the bad guys. Jacob and his people and the monster who wants to keep everything they way it was. the monster has such bleak ideas about life, future and progress. Jacob is all about progress, future and life. Just as the story was told by Locke when he was telling Walt how to play backgammon.

Wouldnt it be weird if the monster had taken over Locke's body ever since the very moment they landed on the island and that was why he was able to walk???

This season has started off sooooo great and will hopefully lead to an even better finale'!!! I read an article this morning about how the new episode was leaked on the internet last Friday and then posted on youtube on Sunday and the hits on it were so low it was shocking to ABC. They discovered that Lost fans are the most dedicated fans ABC has ever come across because NO ONE wanted to view the leaks. Lost fans are the BEST!!!! now i just need to adjust to the Tuesday night viewings of Lost........ stupid school ;(

GeezrRckr
02-03-2010, 06:34 PM
interesting take, bliss. i am still wondering about the relationship between charles widmore and ben. last season, i thought they may be an analog of sorts to jacob/jacob's nemesis. esp with the killing of ben's daughter and him going back to widmore and saying "you changed the rules."

did i miss something on that?

bliss209
02-05-2010, 07:01 AM
Ben and Charles, i think, have a totally different relationship than good/bad Jacob. Charles was on the island as one of the "others" while Ben was a child (i am hoping i have the time line right), and he was perhaps there longer than Ben being that Charles is older. Ben was saved as a child by the temple waters when we saw Richard take him there. I think Ben's cancer was a side effect of the usage of the temple waters. And Ben never "achieved" a "special side effect" like, perhaps Richard and others who may have used the water. And Ben has always been bitter about it.

I believe Charles is purely in it for a different reason. When Ben came along as an older adult and killed off the Dharma Initiative and took over the "others", Charles was more out for revenge against Ben than anything else. Obviously , Charles invested a ton of money into the Dharma Initiative and also held some type of position on the island. And the revenge has grown bigger and bigger over the years. I am not too sure about their rules, if it has something to do with Jacob/Nemesis. Perhaps they had an agreement just as Jacob/Nemesis did.

shakermaker113
02-05-2010, 08:15 AM
you guys are pretty hardcore with your analyses.

shakermaker113
02-05-2010, 08:25 AM
do you guys have any theories on why there was some rule/force preventing him from just killing jacob in the first place?

Leeartlee
02-05-2010, 08:28 AM
do you guys have any theories on why there was some rule/force preventing him from just killing jacob in the first place?

Well, being supernatural beings, there is some kind of supernatural rules that dictate their behavior. I know that's not very specific but it might be the most explanation we ever get.

GeezrRckr
02-05-2010, 08:43 AM
expanding upon ^
probably has something to do with the destruction of the universe had nemesis not found the loophole and just killed jacob outright. surely, we will find out.

bliss - i don't remember when ben was put in the temple waters by richard...was that when he was shot as a child or ?? and what is this side effect you are speaking about? appreciate your enthusiasm, but feels like quite a reach to me.

Leeartlee
02-05-2010, 08:48 AM
bliss - i don't remember when ben was put in the temple waters by richard...was that when he was shot as a child or ?? and what is this side effect you are speaking about? appreciate your enthusiasm, but feels like quite a reach to me.

When Ben was shot and Richard took him, Richard informed the Losties that if he healed Ben, Ben would never be the same. The implication that we have from that is that putting people in the temple water's changes them somehow. That's what could possibly make it physically impossible for Ben to kill Widmore... but this makes some assumptions about Widmore.

juloxx
02-05-2010, 10:15 AM
cool story dumb fuck.

Find somewhere else to post your bullshit.

ooohhh did I hurt your feelings? Sorry to ruin the show for you. If you like there are plenty of other reptitive ass shows that someone of your intelligence could get lost in. I suggest Inuyasha.

J~$$$$
02-05-2010, 10:57 AM
ooohhh did I hurt your feelings? Sorry to ruin the show for you. If you like there are plenty of other reptitive ass shows that someone of your intelligence could get lost in. I suggest Inuyasha.

cool story, hansel.

tessalasset
02-05-2010, 11:00 AM
bliss - i don't remember when ben was put in the temple waters by richard...was that when he was shot as a child or ?? and what is this side effect you are speaking about? appreciate your enthusiasm, but feels like quite a reach to me.

yeah we didn't actually see richard put ben into the water, but after tuesday's episode, i think we're supposed to believe that's how it was done, since that's exactly what just happened with sayid. (cool parallel btw... sayid getting shot and brought there after he shoots ben who was then brought there). when richard takes ben, he says to jack and kate "i can heal him, but he'll never be the same." so something must happen to them once they're put in the water. no freebies here. bliss thinks, in addition to ben just becoming a fucking monster, he might have gotten his tumor from doing this. so it'll be interesting to see how different sayid is from now on, if he's really not just jacob incarnate.

psychic friend
02-05-2010, 11:01 AM
"i can heal him, but he'll never be the same."



pet cemetery.

tessalasset
02-05-2010, 11:01 AM
never saw it.

GeezrRckr
02-05-2010, 11:09 AM
so it'll be interesting to see how different sayid is from now on, if he's really not just jacob incarnate.

that's my guess. something about hurley having to take sayid to the temple, right away, after jacob was killed leads me to think this. interesting parallels to the miracle easter zombie mythology, eh. even more strength to the god v satan theory.

JustSteve
02-05-2010, 11:12 AM
never saw it.

whaaaa? rent it.

chairmenmeow47
02-05-2010, 11:13 AM
yeah we didn't actually see richard put ben into the water, but after tuesday's episode, i think we're supposed to believe that's how it was done, since that's exactly what just happened with sayid. (cool parallel btw... sayid getting shot and brought there after he shoots ben who was then brought there). when richard takes ben, he says to jack and kate "i can heal him, but he'll never be the same." so something must happen to them once they're put in the water. no freebies here. bliss thinks, in addition to ben just becoming a fucking monster, he might have gotten his tumor from doing this. so it'll be interesting to see how different sayid is from now on, if he's really not just jacob incarnate.

hey good point. i wonder if people who were "healed" by the temple can no longer be "healed" by the island (ben's tumor vs. locke's legs).

GeezrRckr
02-05-2010, 11:14 AM
^now that is an interesting theory!

sonofhal
02-05-2010, 02:25 PM
Just been subjected to the first two eps here. My brain hurts.

I did notice that on the shot near the end (panning from walking Locke to corpse Locke) that it was a completely different slaphead actor lying on the ground.

bliss209
02-05-2010, 03:38 PM
hey good point. i wonder if people who were "healed" by the temple can no longer be "healed" by the island (ben's tumor vs. locke's legs).

ooooohhh i like that one! very interesting.

digitaldragon03
02-05-2010, 04:58 PM
I doubt Jacob is inside Sayid's body. As already stated, MIB is a double of Locke's real body, so if Jacob adheres to the same rules, he would be a double of Sayid's body.

Also, Jacob would not ask "What happened?" when he revives. He would know.

GrossMagic
02-05-2010, 05:06 PM
I dunno if anyones thought/said this already but I have a feeling the smoke monster was disguised as Jacob telling Hugo to bring Sayid to the temple. Jacob is dead so the water isn't clear anymore which brings me to think the smoke monster is now Sayid.

digitaldragon03
02-05-2010, 05:57 PM
Except the smoke monster had been with Ben the entire time that Jacob was explaining what to do with Sayid.

shakermaker113
02-05-2010, 10:47 PM
Just been subjected to the first two eps here. My brain hurts.

I did notice that on the shot near the end (panning from walking Locke to corpse Locke) that it was a completely different slaphead actor lying on the ground.

I think you could be on to something here.

tessalasset
02-05-2010, 11:33 PM
Except the smoke monster had been with Ben the entire time that Jacob was explaining what to do with Sayid.

Who made the rule that smokie can only inhabit one body at a time?

Tylerdurden31
02-06-2010, 05:51 AM
Who made the rule that smokie can only inhabit one body at a time?

considering that when Ben went into the temple to get attacked by the smoke monster/Alex and John went missing....and also that John disappeared while smokey took out Jacob's guards...I think Cuse and Lindelof did.

atom heart
02-06-2010, 07:12 AM
Considering Smokey was so damn sure of himself that he took out Richard Alpert I don't think he knows he's been out-maneuvered.

Monklish
02-06-2010, 08:31 AM
Yeah actually now that I think about it have we ever seen more than one dead person at once? Don't think so.

bmack86
02-06-2010, 09:29 AM
Jesus, this stuff is ridiculous. I guess I need to watch again.

cansei de ser sexme
02-06-2010, 10:20 AM
I went to a party on tuesday and got a lost T-Shirt that my friend made. We went to this guy's house who has a huge garden in his back yard so we called it "The Orchard" and the shirts had the dharma station logo on the front. I am such a nerd.

tessalasset
02-06-2010, 11:56 AM
Orchid you mean?

digitaldragon03
02-07-2010, 11:08 PM
This was great.

pt3GsTPgSGo

Laura owns you
02-08-2010, 04:40 AM
i like the idea that the temple and the island wont heal the same person....that would make sense. i've always wanted an explanation for why ben's tumor was so out of control.

ivankay
02-08-2010, 06:57 PM
Another side by side edit of the plane crash / not crash:

I-1qzelSWpE

The first difference i noticed when watching the episode was Jack being handed one vodka instead of 2. i'm pretty sure this is representing the split in realities caused by the Jughead explosion. i wonder if the timeline for the "new" reality is going to jump to 2007 to match where the old reality is story wise. After the drama of the hours and days of the LAX landing are played out (Kate and Clair's cab ride), will the writer's match them up with New Jack "knowing" something is wrong and somehow being an active participant in bringing the realities back together? Makes me wonder what the the negative possibilities are if a reality is split. Do you live in a world of halved souls and unstable matter?

Yay, 24 hours til more Lost!

A friend is staying over and when i was going to watch Lost last week she said she was just going to watch it with me because she was getting excited by all the hype. She never watched and i refused to let her watch. i told her it would make no sense to her and i couldn't rob her of the experience of the unravel of the seasons. When discussing this at werk today, myself and the guy i was talking to both felt Lost was the best tv viewing experience we have had in our lives.

tessalasset
02-08-2010, 07:27 PM
Holy shit Mike that's awesome. I love this show SO much. And I think Rose got her lines dead on, unlike Jack and stewardess.

ivankay
02-08-2010, 07:35 PM
i wonder what the little differences mean if anything. Rose, Jack and Bernard are no longer sitting by the wing. Jack is sitting by the window the whole time and doesn't move over to the aisle seat (probably because that's where "Ghost Desmond" is sitting). Oh Lost, why do you do this to me?

fikus222
02-08-2010, 07:46 PM
LOST, I like what I see so far.

cansei de ser sexme
02-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Orchid you mean?

No we made our own name. Purposefully similar.

tessalasset
02-08-2010, 10:31 PM
Ahh got it. That's pretty awesome. I wish my friends had a Lost party.

ivankay
02-09-2010, 05:21 AM
i was looking at defame (http://defamer.gawker.com/5465390/lost-reimagined-as-60s-pulp-fiction)r and they had this up:

tAGdJqaa3ag

If it is already amongst these many pages, consider this the split reality version where you don't see any difference because you too are in that split.

chairmenmeow47
02-09-2010, 06:27 AM
so i re-watched over the weekend. here are my pointless thoughts:


when the island is under water, we still see that othertown is built. so WHEN did the island go under water and were there any changes to things that happened on the island? (dharma initiative, the others, ben vs. widmore)
i liked how once again everyone was looking for a pen to save someone's life
arnzt bugging hurley was cute
thought it was interesting that sun was still asked to button her sweater
i could tell the captain's voice was the same captain from the pilot, aka matt parkman from heroes.
everytime i see jack, the coldplay song "i will try to fix you" comes in my head
i wonder if jack's dad will have another funeral with no body
the book in the temple that was with that skeleton was kierkegaard. my friend and i paused it, but we couldn't understand the title because it wasn't in english.
i like that there are still beers in the van (myles offers them to sawyer while burying juliet
i'm happy to see the jew from deadwood is at the temple, took me forever to figure out who he was
i laughed my ass of when mr. miagi karate kicks jack
and kate... i'm sorry, but what kind of fugitive doesn't steal a cab just because a guy like phil tells her not to
will claire have the baby early due to the stress with kate in the cab?
what is the exact substance of the circle of ash and why does it protect people from the smoke monster?
where/when is anti-jacob's (not-locke's) home?
what is myles freaked out about at the end while hurley is talking to sayid? does he realize that sayid is not dead (but not really alive either)?
i wonder if locke is in the wheelchair for the same reasons.


can't wait for tonight :)

captncrzy
02-09-2010, 06:48 AM
everytime i see jack, the coldplay song "i will try to fix you" comes in my head

Haha



what is the exact substance of the circle of ash and why does it protect people from the smoke monster?

I'll bet there is some biblical tie in here. Is there an ash-like substance that protects us from Satan?


where/when is anti-jacob's (not-locke's) home?

According to EW, it's off the island.


what is myles freaked out about at the end while hurley is talking to sayid? does he realize that sayid is not dead (but not really alive either)?

I think so. Myles can talk to the dead. He must sense something is off. Hurley can too, but his skills aren't quite the same as Myles' are.

thestripe
02-09-2010, 08:26 AM
Pumped

J~$$$$
02-09-2010, 08:32 AM
Pumped

!!!

atom heart
02-09-2010, 09:35 AM
Michael Emerson on Lost and Ben's future (http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2010/02/chat_room_michael_emerson.html)

if you want COMPLETE ignorance do not click, though obviously Emerson is as vague as possible.

ragingdave
02-09-2010, 10:20 AM
everytime i see jack, the coldplay song "i will try to fix you" comes in my head

Haha



what is the exact substance of the circle of ash and why does it protect people from the smoke monster?

I'll bet there is some biblical tie in here. Is there an ash-like substance that protects us from Satan?


where/when is anti-jacob's (not-locke's) home?

According to EW, it's off the island.


what is myles freaked out about at the end while hurley is talking to sayid? does he realize that sayid is not dead (but not really alive either)?

I think so. Myles can talk to the dead. He must sense something is off. Hurley can too, but his skills aren't quite the same as Myles' are.

Thank you so much for those insightful answers.
You must work on the set.

humanoid
02-09-2010, 10:23 AM
I watched the "entire history of Lost until now" show last night...I think that's enough

tessalasset
02-09-2010, 11:31 AM
goddammit people it's MILES.

chairmenmeow47
02-09-2010, 11:32 AM
it's not our fault a more famous myles spells his name differently :p

and we'll see, jen!

captncrzy
02-09-2010, 11:34 AM
Fuck you Dave. Go stick your bugdick in a bottle of Two Buck Chuck.

Monklish
02-09-2010, 11:41 AM
it's not our fault a more famous myles spells his name differently :p

and we'll see, jen!

Who spells their name that way? Just curious, I was reading that and wondering where that spelling had come from myself but didn't want to go contradicting.

chairmenmeow47
02-09-2010, 11:46 AM
myles davis

omg i'm wrong nevermind lol. i'm just a retard about spelling names. there should be one way to spell your name, IMO.

Monklish
02-09-2010, 11:47 AM
There already is. Miles. =)

Monklish
02-09-2010, 11:48 AM
Apparently Myles Standish was a Myles though. So maybe you were recalling 17th century name trends?

ragingdave
02-09-2010, 02:23 PM
Sayid is Sayid.

Since he is alive in the alt time line he cannot die in the island timeline until the two merge in the future.

humanoid
02-09-2010, 02:32 PM
Apparently Myles Standish was a Myles though. So maybe you were recalling 17th century name trends?

common mistake, I often find my head stuck in the 17th century.

Blinken
02-09-2010, 03:06 PM
I really doubt that the Alt timeline was created by the bomb. Richard told Sun he remembered all of the 1977 people because he watched them die. We see him watching the incident so that must be what he sees to lead him to believe they are all dead. So that means Richard survived the blast, and the timeline continued with the same results. He survived because Faraday was right the bomb negated the energy release, just like the bomb Desmond set off to negate the remaining energy at the swan station. I think they learned how to negate the energy from the incident at the Swan.

Blinken
02-09-2010, 03:10 PM
Sayid is Sayid.

Since he is alive in the alt time line he cannot die in the island timeline until the two merge in the future.

I agree that Sayid is Sayid, but your reason is incorrect. Boone, Charlie, Frogurt, and Arntz are all dead on the island timeline but alive in the alt.