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ivankay
03-05-2009, 07:22 AM
Condolences Ivy. i too hope Sayid tracks them down, tortures the culprits and then introduces them to the dishwasher. When you do see the episode, you're gonna love it.

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 07:28 AM
ok, everything is ok. thankfully my complaining here prompted rick to text me that the show was re-aired at midnight. my friend jill called to tell me too, i love my friends and thanks for the kind words! :)

so i was kind of asleep while watching, but the episode was meh for me. we all kinda knew sawyer and juliet would hook up at some point, so that wasn't a huge surprise. i actually found the three years earlier/three years later thing annoying too, kat. it was kind of nice to see sawyer as a normal, decent guy though. any significance to lefleur?

i felt so bad for daniel. i wonder if he's just going to go completely insane now. and what the fuck is up with horace? that was so odd.

from watching the trailer it seems like sayid is in the same time as jack/hurley/kate, did anyone else see the same thing?

and we have to wait TWO WEEKS for an episode, i'm going to cry.

JClemy
03-05-2009, 07:34 AM
I thought this episode and last weeks episode were both kinda meh. I feel a little disappointed with the story right now. It's kinda slow. They show the smoke monster for a minute and other things but no real info

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 07:40 AM
oh and the STATUE, WTF??!?!?! WHAT A TEASE, WHEN THE FUCK WAS THAT?!??!

Young blood
03-05-2009, 07:53 AM
Was the statue a woman?

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 07:56 AM
i thought the same thing, but it was hard to tell.

wmgaretjax
03-05-2009, 08:13 AM
So there are two time lines now that we are aware of right? The original and the fucked one?

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 08:16 AM
So there are two time lines now that we are aware of right? The original and the fucked one?

i think there are two island timelines, yes. i am not sure how that relates to the "real world" timeline though.

bballarl
03-05-2009, 09:16 AM
Wait. When did we see the statue? I missed that.

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 09:21 AM
at the very beginning after the flash that showed sawyer tugging on the rope that was stuck in the ground, they look up to the horizon and see the back of a tall statue that is on the island. soon after they flash though and that was all we saw of the statue.

bballarl
03-05-2009, 09:34 AM
Shit. I'll have to re-watch. Thanks.

thestripe
03-05-2009, 09:49 AM
I hope this is leading up to the Lock vs Ben show down. The timeline supports Lock stopping Ben from ever taking power and doing all those shitty things.

Young blood
03-05-2009, 12:26 PM
The new dark ufo "things I noticed" has been posted.

Blinken
03-05-2009, 12:47 PM
I hope this is leading up to the Lock vs Ben show down. The timeline supports Lock stopping Ben from ever taking power and doing all those shitty things.

No it doesn't. Locke, Ben and the new survivors are in present day time. Every one else is in the 70's. Locke can't cause any problems for past Ben in the present day, plus there is the fact that everything that happened has already happened. So really nothing can change anything.

BeHereNOW
03-05-2009, 01:10 PM
hey, do you think 3 years are enough to forget someone you loved?

sawyer: yes... (NOT!)


i hate kate so much.... great candy eye though

Young blood
03-05-2009, 01:11 PM
So really nothing can change anything.

desmond can.

WILD CARD BITCHES!

fikus222
03-05-2009, 04:22 PM
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/6/68/FourToedFull.jpg

With those ears and the fact that it appears to be holding Ankhs, it looks like it is Egyptian...that would be in keeping with the theme in this episode regarding Horace (Horus) and Paul's Ankh.

Blinken
03-05-2009, 04:28 PM
That is not the same statue as the four toed one. http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080514/lost-mysteries/four-toe-statue_l.jpg
notice the background locations, we would be able to see the station from this view since it is right behind the statue.

tessalasset
03-05-2009, 05:06 PM
not necessarily. i think they're pretty far back, and possibly in that dense green foresty foliage at the bottom of the foot pic. we don't have any scale for that landscape.

chairmenmeow47
03-05-2009, 05:17 PM
if the station is right behind the statue and there are trees, there's still a possibility it's there.

thestripe
03-05-2009, 06:19 PM
More than one statue.

benhur
03-05-2009, 06:25 PM
egypt thing isn't impossible especially with the whole connection with tunisia when locke turned the wheel.

so is the consenus that jack, kate, sayid etc are in the 70s while locke, ben and lepidas are stuck in present time cause they weren't flashed?

fikus222
03-05-2009, 08:13 PM
so is the consenus that jack, kate, sayid etc are in the 70s while locke, ben and lepidas are stuck in present time cause they weren't flashed?

Yup, and Sun is prolly in the 'present' as well.

bballarl
03-05-2009, 08:17 PM
That is interesting about Egypt. Plus, there were hieroglyphics in the temple.

fikus222
03-05-2009, 08:28 PM
Hatch:
http://www.anykey.net/jpb6891/jpb6891/lost/hieroglyphics.jpg

Ben's safe room door:

http://www.docarzt.com/hieroglow.jpg

The Temple's:

http://www.jeff-fischer.net/images/images_lost/s5/temple_hieroglyphs_resize.jpg

benhur
03-05-2009, 09:16 PM
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/6/68/FourToedFull.jpg

With those ears and the fact that it appears to be holding Ankhs, it looks like it is Egyptian...that would be in keeping with the theme in this episode regarding Horace (Horus) and Paul's Ankh.

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8742/egypte.png

kitt kat
03-05-2009, 11:42 PM
No way. No writers do it better. Great episode.

Haha the title cards were getting to me!

Also, speaking of the writers...If any LA people are interested, the WGA is hosting a panel featuring the writers of LOST on March 26th. Tickets are $20 for the public, $15 for WGA members and $10 for students.

I'm totally going. It'll be really neat to hear the writers talk about the process of writing for such a complex show...and they have a nice female presence on their staff as well, which I really appreciate.

But yeah, if anyone wants to make an evening of it...whoo!

http://www.wgfoundation.org/wow.aspx

ivankay
03-06-2009, 12:01 AM
Thanks for the heads up. That should be pretty cool.

On the statue: i was thinking Anubis and looks like lots of discussion has focused on it being him. Anubis is the god of the dead. The island is a place of death. Anubis is sometimes portrayed in full jackal form and has 4 toes in that case.

But the ears on the statue aren't typical of the Anubis portrayal. All shall be revealed in time. Wish my patience in that thinking crossed over to my impatience for 2 weeks to come around.

This Egyptian thing makes Richard at least a few thousand years old.

Anyone read hieroglyphics?

kitt kat
03-06-2009, 12:09 AM
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN WHY HE'S ALWAYS WEARING EYELINER!

http://www.afrobella.com/wp-content/afrobella%20images/cleopatra.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/lost/1/7/M/V/-/-/Richard_Alpert.jpg

kitt kat
03-06-2009, 12:10 AM
Those glyphs aren't egyptian, I think.

atom heart
03-06-2009, 05:47 AM
That episode was naff. Poor Miles has the worst time of this-- the writers seem not to know what to do with him. At the best of times he's just a plot device, but most of the time he's just a poor audience proxy. I did like his "why is going to Tahiti a bad thing?". He should just get on that sub and get on with his thirty year suspended future.

KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE! Ugh. Fall in a punji trap and save us all some grief.

sddoctor
03-06-2009, 05:57 AM
Alpert is definitely a part of some kind of ancient civilization, egyptian or not, placed on the island to protect it from outsiders.

great episode.

ivankay
03-06-2009, 06:04 AM
While looking up Anubis stuff, i saw someone do this:

Richard Alpert = R.A. (as in the sun god)

chairmenmeow47
03-06-2009, 07:40 AM
nice, mike :)

i watched again last night, i forgot to mention how i was glad to see the comedian from mad men. he was the dharma initiative guy yelling at the other dharma guy for having the girl in that surveillance room. also, i think it's very convenient that they gave jin 3 years to magically learn better english, i have a feeling we'll be seeing less of caveman jin.

i really want to know who juliet delivered. i got the "goodspeed" thing confused with "goodwin" and thought maybe she had delivered her lover that ana killed, but obviously i'm wrong about that. still though, i feel there's gotta be some significance to the first baby she's successfully delivered on the island.

ivankay
03-06-2009, 08:05 AM
Also while searching last night, i came across a few reminders that Horace was building the cabin for Jacob in one of Locke's visions. Why Horace?

Did i ever mention Lost, in my irrelevant opinion is the greatest show in TV history.

locachica73
03-07-2009, 09:08 AM
I just watched the episode... First, I prefer dirty scruffy Sawyer to cleaned up shaved Sawyer. I also found it interesting that 3 years had passed for them on the island just like 3 years had passed for the oceanic 6 before they came back. Although no one looks like a day has passed... I wish real life were the same lol.

So I wonder at which point the people of the island stopped being able to have babies? What do you think caused that?

And just like a man to leave one womans bed and lie to go run to his other woman. DIRTY BASTARD!!!

atom heart
03-07-2009, 05:25 PM
i really want to know who juliet delivered. i got the "goodspeed" thing confused with "goodwin" and thought maybe she had delivered her lover that ana killed, but obviously i'm wrong about that. still though, i feel there's gotta be some significance to the first baby she's successfully delivered on the island.


Also while searching last night, i came across a few reminders that Horace was building the cabin for Jacob in one of Locke's visions. Why Horace?

My friends and I have decided that Horace's baby is the last to survive being conceived on the island, and that the baby is Jacob, who for some reason or another has to bring back the island's good karma. The island is clearly cursed, and Jacob has to break it-- though how I'm not sure. And I'm sure having Ben as your chosen one messed things up too.

tessalasset
03-08-2009, 01:57 AM
i still think jacob looked like that old shadowy man in the chair in jacob's house who sorta looked like locke in season three. i refuse to believe jacob is like 35.

bballarl
03-08-2009, 10:00 AM
I have a theory the baby was Desmond. Although that wouldn't make a ton of sense.

sonofhal
03-08-2009, 10:14 AM
If it doesn't make sense, then it's fitting with the general Lost plotlines.

Alligator Bogaloo
03-08-2009, 08:27 PM
How can you people watch this crap... Please rent the complete series of The Wire. You'll never need to watch another show again.

tessalasset
03-08-2009, 11:16 PM
aww where's the fun in that?

OnlyNonStranger
03-09-2009, 10:27 AM
How can you people watch this crap... Please rent the complete series of The Wire. You'll never need to watch another show again.

Thanks for positively contributing to this thread. Appreciate it..

chairmenmeow47
03-09-2009, 10:37 AM
i still think jacob looked like that old shadowy man in the chair in jacob's house who sorta looked like locke in season three. i refuse to believe jacob is like 35.

me too.

from a mythology standpoint, the heroes trying to return home always have to consult with a "wise old somebody", and so far jacob seems to be the person in those shoes. i just picture him old, even if he's part of the dead smug people club like christian & richard.

plus, they'd have to fill in how richard knew who jacob was when locke mentioned it in 1954, but why richard wasn't filled in on locke or anything else. just seems like a difficult hole to fill if juliet delivered jacob during dharma times.

and i've wanted to watch the wire for ages. i wish they'd put them all on on demand or something, cause renting TV shows is a total rip off. i remember renting disc 4 of one of the sopranos seasons from blockbuster and only getting one episode.

Blinken
03-09-2009, 10:43 AM
Those glyphs aren't egyptian, I think.

I know the ones on the clock were egyptian, and translated on the ABC Lost boards when I used to frequent them. I am pretty sure that the others are egyptian as well.

signmeup
03-10-2009, 09:55 AM
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN WHY HE'S ALWAYS WEARING EYELINER!

http://www.afrobella.com/wp-content/afrobella%20images/cleopatra.jpg
http://z.about.com/d/lost/1/7/M/V/-/-/Richard_Alpert.jpg

i loved it when sawyer referred to his eyeliner

garrett222
03-10-2009, 10:16 AM
me too.

from a mythology standpoint, the heroes trying to return home always have to consult with a "wise old somebody", and so far jacob seems to be the person in those shoes. i just picture him old, even if he's part of the dead smug people club like christian & richard.

plus, they'd have to fill in how richard knew who jacob was when locke mentioned it in 1954, but why richard wasn't filled in on locke or anything else. just seems like a difficult hole to fill if juliet delivered jacob during dharma times.

and i've wanted to watch the wire for ages. i wish they'd put them all on on demand or something, cause renting TV shows is a total rip off. i remember renting disc 4 of one of the sopranos seasons from blockbuster and only getting one episode.

subscribe to netflix 2 at a time unlimited for $11.99 and go through a disc or two at a time. it's a much better deal than paying 4.99 per disc rental.

marooko
03-10-2009, 10:19 AM
almost done with season 1. on the last disc. got season 2-3 in 720p HD. im excited. a little sad i havent been watching the new ones, but i cant know what i shouldnt know.

locachica73
03-10-2009, 10:28 AM
I am a full supporter of Netflix, I have been catching up on the L word that way... Although I probably shouldn't watch that show as it makes me think I should move to LA and become a lesbian. The Wire is in my Queue as well as a few other tv shows that I have been wanting to watch.

chairmenmeow47
03-10-2009, 10:32 AM
subscribe to netflix 2 at a time unlimited for $11.99 and go through a disc or two at a time. it's a much better deal than paying 4.99 per disc rental.

good point, i think the roomies do netflix, i should just ask them.

locachica73
03-10-2009, 10:34 AM
They also have alot of tv shows that you can watch online through netflix, that is how I got into Weeds and The L Word during one of my not leaving my room Sundays.

OnlyNonStranger
03-10-2009, 10:42 AM
They also have alot of tv shows that you can watch online through netflix, that is how I got into Weeds and The L Word during one of my not leaving my room Sundays.

Has netflix made it so you can watch on your mac yet? That was the biggest thing for me not to get them.

I guess I could check myself..

locachica73
03-10-2009, 10:43 AM
I am not sure on that.

garrett222
03-10-2009, 11:31 AM
Has netflix made it so you can watch on your mac yet? That was the biggest thing for me not to get them.

I guess I could check myself..

Yes you can..I watch on my Imac all the time.

atom heart
03-10-2009, 11:59 AM
Since when was Richard dead? I don't think any one on that island is officially dead except for Christian and maybe John Locke.

Also I really don't remember anything about what anyone said about Jacob except for that Horace was building Jacob's cabin in some sort of ghostly time-loop.

locachica73
03-10-2009, 12:02 PM
oooh i forgot that was Horace, I remembered he looked familiar but I couldn't place where from.

Cancersticks1
03-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Lost not being on today is not cool.

Blinken
03-11-2009, 03:57 PM
Lost not being on today is not cool.

Awwww fucknuggets I was all psyched for new South Park and Lost tonight, I had completly forgotten.

chairmenmeow47
03-11-2009, 04:02 PM
Since when was Richard dead? I don't think any one on that island is officially dead except for Christian and maybe John Locke.

Also I really don't remember anything about what anyone said about Jacob except for that Horace was building Jacob's cabin in some sort of ghostly time-loop.

good point. we don't know that richard is dead. let's put him in the "smug people who stay the same age club" then :)

and below is a quote from you about the theory that jacob might be horace's baby:


My friends and I have decided that Horace's baby is the last to survive being conceived on the island, and that the baby is Jacob, who for some reason or another has to bring back the island's good karma. The island is clearly cursed, and Jacob has to break it-- though how I'm not sure. And I'm sure having Ben as your chosen one messed things up too.

Blinken
03-11-2009, 04:16 PM
I think Jacob has always been on the island, it wouldn't make sense for him to be born in the 70's and be only 30 years old in the present day. Remember he guides Ben and the hostiles to kill all of the Dharma people, he would be way to young to weild that kind of power.

benhur
03-11-2009, 04:36 PM
come on...everyone knows that jacob isn't an actual person...he's probably the name of "the book" or a spirit or some shit

shakermaker113
03-11-2009, 05:50 PM
can someone explain to me who Horace is? and why lost isn't on tonight?

fikus222
03-11-2009, 06:25 PM
Horace is one of the primary Dharma Initiative higher-ups. He is also the person who built the cabin Jacob now uses.

Lost isn't on tonight because they are jipping us with a short season again, so they are stretching it out some.

Cancersticks1
03-12-2009, 06:51 AM
Horace was also the person who found Ben and his parents on the side of the room when Ben was born. Oddly enough, he seemed to be married to someone completely different in that episode (the woman who played Daisy in the Super Mario Bros. movie.)

chairmenmeow47
03-12-2009, 07:31 AM
i've read rumours that olivia (the woman originally thought to be his wife) might actually be his sister. who knows though.

shakermaker113
03-12-2009, 08:38 AM
(the woman who played Daisy in the Super Mario Bros. movie.)

what an unfortunate way to be known.

Alligator Bogaloo
03-12-2009, 12:46 PM
Thanks for positively contributing to this thread. Appreciate it..

Yeah...I'm that asshole, but if you watch the Wire you'll be blown away. Enjoy you Lost thread...

Down Rodeo
03-12-2009, 05:20 PM
Yeah, we've seen The Wire and know it's an amazing show. That's why there were several Wire threads a few months back. Lost is equally good.

faxman75
03-13-2009, 02:01 PM
Lost is pretty great. I just got into. I'm at the end of Season 1 and i'm looking forward to the rest. I am zipping through this. 23 episodes in 5 days so far.

Blinken
03-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Yeah, we've seen The Wire and know it's an amazing show. That's why there were several Wire threads a few months back. Lost is equally good.

I love Lost, but for me it is not as good as The Wire. It is like comparing apples to oranges though.

Glad to hear you like the show Fax, get out of this thread until you catch up though it will ruin it for you.

sportsbunny
03-14-2009, 12:47 AM
I love Lost, but for me it is not as good as The Wire. It is like comparing apples to oranges though.



Blasphemy!

fikus222
03-14-2009, 01:24 AM
Lost is pretty great. I just got into. I'm at the end of Season 1 and i'm looking forward to the rest. I am zipping through this. 23 episodes in 5 days so far.

I totally recommend this approach...there is nothing like watching TV shows via a marathon. It enables you to bypass the lame politics of weekly aired shows.

shakermaker113
03-14-2009, 08:31 AM
I started watching an 'enhanced' episode on abc's player last night, until I realize I'd seen it before and stopped. it has little hints telling you where and when they are, where you have seen characters before, etc. it's like lost for dummies.

tessalasset
03-14-2009, 10:28 AM
they do that before every episode now. do you mean with the little scrolling green box at the bottom of the page?

BlackSwan
03-14-2009, 10:32 AM
I finally got caught up after missing the last two episodes. Lost is still awesome.

shakermaker113
03-14-2009, 11:46 AM
they do that before every episode now. do you mean with the little scrolling green box at the bottom of the page?

they have enhanced versions of every episode. when I watch on tv or watch the regular version I don't see any such hints. and maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I don't remember it scrolling. it was more like a pop-up. not that the difference really matters.

BobCaygeon
03-14-2009, 01:12 PM
they have enhanced versions of every episode. when I watch on tv or watch the regular version I don't see any such hints. and maybe I just wasn't paying attention but I don't remember it scrolling. it was more like a pop-up. not that the difference really matters.

For most (all?) of this season, they're showing the previous week's episode in enhanced version right before they show the new one without the enhancements.

LooseAtTheZoo
03-14-2009, 02:53 PM
So I haven't watched the past three. Who can summarize what I need to know?

Or should I just watch online, they are all that important?

bballarl
03-14-2009, 03:22 PM
Yeah, watch them online.

Cancersticks1
03-14-2009, 03:22 PM
So I haven't watched the past three. Who can summarize what I need to know?

Or should I just watch online, they are all that important?

The dog did it.

sportsbunny
03-15-2009, 01:21 PM
I started watching an 'enhanced' episode on abc's player last night, until I realize I'd seen it before and stopped. it has little hints telling you where and when they are, where you have seen characters before, etc. it's like lost for dummies.

I think half the fun of Lost is trying to figure out those things! Makes you use your brain. (something I don't do enough of lol)

shakermaker113
03-15-2009, 01:55 PM
For most (all?) of this season, they're showing the previous week's episode in enhanced version right before they show the new one without the enhancements.

oh. good to know.


I think half the fun of Lost is trying to figure out those things! Makes you use your brain. (something I don't do enough of lol)

true. although it helps with character names, and pointing out where they have been seen before. I always fail to recognize people.

tessalasset
03-15-2009, 09:43 PM
they did this last season too. Lost for Dummies.


(no offense to those that find this helpful. i think it's just geared towards the casual lost fan as opposed to lost fans who would come and talk about it on a message board after airing.)

locachica73
03-16-2009, 09:29 AM
I have tried to watch the enhanced episodes just to see if there was something I missed during the first airing. I don't get very far in them though, I like to watch the scenes too much to try and read the bottom of the screen.

marooko
03-16-2009, 08:30 PM
just finished the last episode of season one. just plain craziness.

chairmenmeow47
03-18-2009, 10:56 AM
I have tried to watch the enhanced episodes just to see if there was something I missed during the first airing. I don't get very far in them though, I like to watch the scenes too much to try and read the bottom of the screen.

sometimes there is a small amount of information that kind of confirms a theory, that's why i watch them. it would be annoying to watch if you had never seen the episode though, as they sometimes give information away in the enhancements that will be found out later in the episode.

TONIGHT, WOOOOOOOOO!

ivankay
03-18-2009, 01:59 PM
Yay for tonight!

marooko
03-18-2009, 02:04 PM
Lost is pretty great. I just got into. I'm at the end of Season 1 and i'm looking forward to the rest. I am zipping through this. 23 episodes in 5 days so far.

im not going through it that fast, but i cant believe i missed this. in a way, im glad im starting now. the end of season one would have pissed me the fuck off, if i had to wait months to finds out what happens.

locachica73
03-18-2009, 02:08 PM
Those of us who have had the edge of the chair season finales for the past ... 4 seasons? Trust me, we are jealous. The 5 months between shows is a killer. But the first time you see the commercial for the new season the anticipation is almost as good as the month before coachella.

marooko
03-18-2009, 02:12 PM
i dont like TV that much. if i started watching LOST from day one, and this happened, i dont know that i would watch season two. im having a hard time dealing with the fact that i have to wait a week to get season 2. much longer than that, id say fuck it.

Boourns
03-18-2009, 05:37 PM
Awesome. Sun rules.

Blinken
03-18-2009, 05:45 PM
im not going through it that fast, but i cant believe i missed this. in a way, im glad im starting now. the end of season one would have pissed me the fuck off, if i had to wait months to finds out what happens.

LOL I got into the show right at the end of season1 and caught up in time for the season 1 finale. I cursed myself all summer for not waiting to start watching until closerto season two. Although all the theories for the hatch where fun to read.

shakermaker113
03-18-2009, 08:17 PM
oh this episode is cool.

shakermaker113
03-18-2009, 09:02 PM
yup. that was awesome.

1litro
03-18-2009, 09:06 PM
"OMG little Ben" dah who saw that one comming!

bug on your lip
03-18-2009, 09:07 PM
that episode was awesome


daymmm, Sun looked so fukkin sexy when she said "i lied"

fikus222
03-18-2009, 09:16 PM
I completely agree, this episode rawked...I'm surprised that they gave as much as they did. By that I mean they spent a pretty good amount of time in both timelines.

I really liked Sun whacking the crap out of Ben...no wonder he looked so despondent when Locke saw him in the last episode.

That preview makes next week look pretty crazy.

Oh yeah, by the dilapidated looks of the area that Lapidus and Sun were at with Christian I wonder if the second crash victims are in a different time other than the 'present.' If you notice, the whole plane jumped before the crash...it was night and then the flash and then it was light out.

Somewhat Damaged
03-18-2009, 09:57 PM
"OMG little Ben" dah who saw that one comming!

I knew he was going to make an appearance at some point. Initially I thought maybe he'd be in the group of new recruits arriving on the submarine but when they didn't show the kid's face as he was bringing Sayid the sandwich, I knew it had to be someone sinister.


I really liked Sun whacking the crap out of Ben...no wonder he looked so despondent when Locke saw him in the last episode.

Despondent? He was unconscious. Those things aren't synonymous.

Sexecutioner
03-18-2009, 09:58 PM
kate is such a fucking whore. i hope juliette pulls that bitches hair out. how awesome would it be to have a juliette/kate cat fight (preferably in their underwear)?! normally i dont think lost can get much better as a show, but that would definitely cement its place in history as best tv show ever.

sddoctor
03-18-2009, 10:07 PM
Great episode!

- Young Ben!...we know now that Ben knows the Losties, at least Sayid, could explain why he almost knew exactly what to do when Flight 815 crashed. Could explain why he explicitly recruits Juliet, infiltrates the Losties when he gets taken prisoner in Season 2 and why he refers to "other leaders" (plural) that ordered the Purge of the Dharma Initiative in Season 4. I'm guessing we'll get alot of these answers this season. Especially concerning the Purge.

- Baby Ethan was interesting.

- Sun was totally playing the part of Rose in the second crash, hopelessly staring out into the ocean clasping to her wedding ring, knowing her husband is somewhere on the Island.

- Sawyer should stay with Juliet. Let Kate and Jack deal with all the bullshit.

- Sawyer as the leader is awesome.

fikus222
03-18-2009, 10:16 PM
Despondent? He was unconscious. Those things aren't synonymous.

Was he? I thought he was staring off in space...of course I may have been mistaken. Plus who cares, what about the other stuff I said?

captncrzy
03-19-2009, 07:18 AM
I'm willing to bet money that Sayid didn't eat that sandwich.

bartelby
03-19-2009, 07:24 AM
Sawyer as leader fucking rules....that little speech to Jack about Churchill was brilliant

ivankay
03-19-2009, 07:26 AM
i could almost see Sayid thinking of killing little Ben. He seems like he's going that crazy to the point where he would have no regard for the timeline that has to happen.

Where's Daniel?

shakermaker113
03-19-2009, 08:13 AM
Oh yeah, by the dilapidated looks of the area that Lapidus and Sun were at with Christian I wonder if the second crash victims are in a different time other than the 'present.' If you notice, the whole plane jumped before the crash...it was night and then the flash and then it was light out.

the dilapidated looks, and the fact that christian had an age-old photograph of the other crash victims dated 197-something, on a wall full of similarly dated photos.

bug on your lip
03-19-2009, 08:15 AM
has anyone figured out why Sun didn't fukkin zap back with the rest of them ?!??!?!

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 08:20 AM
"OMG little Ben" dah who saw that one comming!

i did. my girlfriend asked how ben knew where the boats were (still thinking the little island was back in time) and i said "well, ben was there in the 70s, so he would know where they are" and then figured we'd see a small ben at some point. awesome.

also, ben did not recruit juliet, richard did. old ben is stuck in the "present" with the losties 2.0, so he doesn't know shit. young ben just met with sayid, we don't know what sayid tells ben at this point. i kept wondering what was in the sandwich and figured ben was there to bust him out. at this point, we don't know how much richard or ben knew leading up to the first crash. i tend to think richard knew more because of his relationship with locke, but perhaps all will be revealed to the hostiles and ben will have that knowledge too.

i like sawyer's leader speech, that was awesome.

the first few minutes were great, though i'll be drinking heavily on my flight to denver tomorrow, lol. i wonder what time the losties are in, is it the present?

i also wonder if they will get in the boats and somehow get caught in the flash that juliet, sawyer & company were in when they were in the boats. i'm wondering if that's how sun, ben and lapidus get to the past. just my thoughts.

and the mad men guy is doing great, i can't wait to see how he fits into all of this. i liked that someone was suspicious of kate. i also liked that the co-pilot recognized hurley, christ, took long enough!!!

and sun is a badass. i love how the women on this show are the only ones who make the badass decisions that get shit done.

great episode and can't wait to rewatch tonight!!!!!!!!!

shakermaker113
03-19-2009, 08:24 AM
has anyone figured out why Sun didn't fukkin zap back with the rest of them ?!??!?!

the same reason Locke didn't zap back.

ivankay
03-19-2009, 08:26 AM
i think the Losties 2.0 are in the future. Aren't the Dharma houses the same one the Others lived in. Being abandoned and trashed is a good indication of the future. Maybe it's even an alternate future where something goes wrong in the timeline or maybe Jughead blew up.

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 08:26 AM
it's because sun has work to do. the island probably figures she's the most likely to do whatever it wants in order to get back to jin. i'm sure she'll be put to work.

see, i think they are in THEIR present, which is what, 2007? that's a few years after the freighter explosion and all that, so it could be desloate by then, right?

Young blood
03-19-2009, 08:31 AM
If I dont see that goddamn dog, Rose or Bernard in the next few eps. Im gonna cut a bitch. If your dog is lost, you don't look for an hour and call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fuckin dog!

Young blood
03-19-2009, 08:34 AM
Ben built the runway. He knew he was coming back on that plane. He had the boats put there. He has given his past self a manifesto. I want to know when he stops remembering/knowing, I think hes only trying to prevent his death because he doesnt know when that is coming.

locachica73
03-19-2009, 08:34 AM
Reading this gets me very excited, I haven't watched the show yet and want to so bad. No one is in my office right now and not expected back for an hour... DARE I????

Young blood
03-19-2009, 08:35 AM
Reading this gets me very excited, I haven't watched the show yet and want to so bad. No one is in my office right now and not expected back for an hour... DARE I????

lost is not about you. nobody cares.

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 08:48 AM
If I dont see that goddamn dog, Rose or Bernard in the next few eps. Im gonna cut a bitch. If your dog is lost, you don't look for an hour and call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fuckin dog!

SERIOUSLY!!! what the FUCK?!

and good call on ben trying to prevent his death. did it seem like his arm was ok to anyone else? he seemed to get a second wind when he took off the arm brace to row the boat, and he told sun he didn't care if she came or not, so maybe the island healed him? but i guess then we'd need to know why ben wasn't brought to the past...

oh, and where's faraday? that was interesting.

bballarl
03-19-2009, 09:51 AM
If I dont see that goddamn dog, Rose or Bernard in the next few eps. Im gonna cut a bitch. If your dog is lost, you don't look for an hour and call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fuckin dog!

Please remind me what this is from. Thanks.

Young blood
03-19-2009, 09:56 AM
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc126/zryan79/BILLY_MADISON-1.jpg

shakermaker113
03-19-2009, 10:01 AM
If I dont see that goddamn dog, Rose or Bernard in the next few eps. Im gonna cut a bitch. If your dog is lost, you don't look for an hour and call it quits. You get your ass out there and you find that fuckin dog!

didn't Jin and Sawyer spend 5 years looking for the rest of their people, with no luck?

Sexecutioner
03-19-2009, 10:05 AM
i liked that someone was suspicious of kate.

that was awesome. juliette was showing her whos boss now.


i think the Losties 2.0 are in the future. Aren't the Dharma houses the same one the Others lived in. Being abandoned and trashed is a good indication of the future. Maybe it's even an alternate future where something goes wrong in the timeline or maybe Jughead blew up.

they definetely are. when it switched from the plane crash scene with them to the dharma people, it said "thirty years earlier". so sun and then are definitely 3 years after the freighter explosion (~07), while the rest are in 77.


Ben built the runway. He knew he was coming back on that plane. He had the boats put there. He has given his past self a manifesto. I want to know when he stops remembering/knowing, I think hes only trying to prevent his death because he doesnt know when that is coming.

interesting theory, but i dont buy it. it seems to me ben is pissed cuz he can tell that his role is diminishing, and the island doesnt need him as much. like when sun (or lupidus, cant remember) asked where the others were, he was like "how should i know" or something like that, all bitter cuz he didnt get to go with them. he knows about the boats and shit cuz he used to live there only 3 years ago, and not much has changed since then. who knows though...all guesses.


oh, and where's faraday? that was interesting.

i am guessing he traveled somewhere in time. like when we saw him at the beginning of the season with dharma gear on, near the orchid's core, he was planning shit out. probably went there are jumped to some other time.

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 10:19 AM
didn't Jin and Sawyer spend 5 years looking for the rest of their people, with no luck?

3 years, i believe.

Courtney
03-19-2009, 10:25 AM
Michael Emerson was in my dream last night. Wtf Lost is invading my subconscious.

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 10:28 AM
i'm telling you courtney, the island, it wants you... do not fight it!!!

Young blood
03-19-2009, 10:33 AM
i am guessing he traveled somewhere in time. like when we saw him at the beginning of the season with dharma gear on, near the orchid's core, he was planning shit out. probably went there are jumped to some other time.

1977 Ann Arbor, MI UofM


The comicCon 2008 video of dr. candle was huge.

fikus222
03-19-2009, 11:30 AM
they definetely are. when it switched from the plane crash scene with them to the dharma people, it said "thirty years earlier". so sun and then are definitely 3 years after the freighter explosion (~07), while the rest are in 77.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that...is the place where Sun and Lapidus meet Christian the same dock area where the sub exploded?

In a previous season, wasn't there an aerial shot of the valley the Dharma Village showing where it is located and didn't it show that the village was set off from the water by some distance?

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 04:07 PM
from the 4815162342 forums...

sun/lapidus were at the welcome processing center, which is by the dock. the barracks are further inland.

i really want to review a map of the island further. i don't know that that is correct. here's a fairly decent one, but it doesn't really cover where the processing center is:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DazPIqa-rr4/SX-OajeINgI/AAAAAAAAAGY/3qLzZ6eewD4/s1600-h/Island_of_LOST2.png

so i guess now we need to know if the shot from the premiere of faraday in the orchid is before or after last night's episode? i read an interesting theory on the forums that perhaps that shot was after, and faraday may set things right after the shot we saw of him bumping into candle. interesting thought...

chairmenmeow47
03-19-2009, 04:27 PM
and holy shit i didn't even notice the lady in the background on the right!!!

http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/775325-2/redw.jpg

what if that's charlotte during her flashes!!!!!!!!!!

locachica73
03-19-2009, 04:29 PM
I went on to abc.com to watch and the site is down. damnit.

fikus222
03-19-2009, 04:41 PM
Was that screenshot of Sun taken during when the other whispers were going on? It might be the psych lady who was married to Juliette's fling?

Young blood
03-19-2009, 04:43 PM
Is the person wearing a gas mask? I totally missed that.

That whole scene was weird from the smoke monster seeing who landed on the island to Sun and Lapidis being totally cool with christian just appearing.

and its faraday filming Dr. Candle in the comic con video.



edit:

After rewatching that scene the door blows open and you see a white gas fill into the room.

captncrzy
03-19-2009, 05:19 PM
and holy shit i didn't even notice the lady in the background on the right!!!

http://ivy.aholic.us/gallery/d/775325-2/redw.jpg

what if that's charlotte during her flashes!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah the numbers forum is talking this one up...I think it's Claire

shakermaker113
03-19-2009, 06:05 PM
and holy shit i didn't even notice the lady in the background on the right!!!

maybe it's a crew member going ah-da-da-dah, like this in the background. what the fuck is it with her? What doesn't she fucking understand? is it fucking distracting having somebody walking up behind Sun in the middle of the fucking scene?

shakermaker113
03-19-2009, 06:13 PM
having now looked at that map -- dear lord some people are obsessive. where is the other island? the one with the animal cages?

Somewhat Damaged
03-19-2009, 06:20 PM
It's gotta be Claire 'cause Emilie de Ravin has been spotted in Hawaii.

fikus222
03-19-2009, 06:36 PM
Claire would also make sense.

I just re-watched the episode and I am pretty sure that when the copilot was trying to radio the Ajira flight's distress call you could here the mechanical voice listing the 'iteration' number associated with Danielle's distress call.

chairmenmeow47
03-20-2009, 08:32 AM
claire would make sense if the shot was of a blonde women. to me, it looks like the shot is of a red haired women who appears to have some semblance of boobs (which would rule claire out) holding her hands next to each other in front of her mid-section. i don't see a gas mask. also, the shirt appears to be similar to what charlotte was wearing before she died. i want to go back and watch "this place is death" to see where their flashes take them and if we ever see the welcome/processing center. claire wouldn't make much sense to me anyways, she'd say SOMETHING creepy to back up christian you'd think. it may not be charlotte, but it appears to be a red head.

harper stanhope (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Harper_Stanhope) (goodwin's wife, goodwin was juliet's fling) isn't quite red enough to be the person in the background to me, but where she went and if we'll ever see her again is up to the fates.

wait, i don't know that i ever saw the comic con video, what was faraday filming? did we see faraday filming the video? it would be interesting if faraday gives candle the information he needs to complete the orchid.

BobCaygeon
03-20-2009, 03:50 PM
wait, i don't know that i ever saw the comic con video, what was faraday filming? did we see faraday filming the video? it would be interesting if faraday gives candle the information he needs to complete the orchid.

I think the poster was referring to the orientation video where Candle puts the bunny in the time machine. Same one Locke watched in the s4 finale. We never saw who was filming it, but now that we know Faraday was once in proximity to Candle...

Young blood
03-20-2009, 04:04 PM
dont confuse the children canygersxwtrepon.Fo6Q7gzUjI8

BobCaygeon
03-20-2009, 04:16 PM
dont confuse the children canygersxwtrepon.Fo6Q7gzUjI8

Oh *that* one.

fikus222
03-20-2009, 04:33 PM
Interesting...

reminds me of that movie 'Prince of Darkness' that Marilyn Manson sampled for his version of the song 'Down in the Park.'

"This is not a dream... not a dream. We are using your brain's electrical system as a receiver. We are unable to transmit through conscious neural interference. You are receiving this broadcast as a dream. We are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9. You are receiving this broadcast in order to alter all of the events you are seeing. Our technology has not developed a transmitter strong enough to reach your conscious awareness. But this is not a dream. You are seeing what is actually occurring for the purpose of causality violation."

JClemy
03-20-2009, 04:49 PM
The numbers were definitely being listed off as the co pilot tried to radio in a mayday.

shakermaker113
03-20-2009, 06:04 PM
now I'm even more convinced that the dharma initiative are all the original crash vicitms' great great grandchildren after they go further back in time. we haven't seen rose and bernard because they're busy repopulating the island in 1900. and the dog is about to give birth to the great grandfather of the grey smoke monster.

I might have to rethink that last part.

sportsbunny
03-21-2009, 12:36 AM
I thought it was interesting how when they were in the jungle of the small island Sun asked Ben where he was going and he referred to it as "our" island - not "his" island which is more what I would have expected him to say. It seems as if he is indeed realizing his diminished control/importance to the island.

Loved seeing young Ben - I had literally just asked my friend "what year did Ben arrive on the sub?" and there he is.

shakermaker113
03-21-2009, 07:12 AM
I thought it was interesting how when they were in the jungle of the small island Sun asked Ben where he was going and he referred to it as "our" island - not "his" island which is more what I would have expected him to say. It seems as if he is indeed realizing his diminished control/importance to the island.

either that or he realized Sun would get pissed off if he called it "my island".

chairmenmeow47
03-25-2009, 12:33 PM
here's some reading to get everyone in the mood tonight. it's from the long live locke blog in reference to last week's episode. and it has me sufficiently confused.


S5Ep9 - Namaste
Posted: 24 Mar 2009 08:48 AM PDT

Hello my dear friends -

Not to kick things off on a depressing note, but did you realize that we are now officially past the halfway point of Season Five? Only eight hours of Lost remain this year. The bright side of this is that it's pretty fair to assume, based on everything we've seen so far in 2009, that what's left to be dished out on the show between now and May 13 is going to be awesome.

The latest installment, "Namaste," was my favorite kind of episode: fast-paced and interesting to watch, but not especially intense or confusing. From what I've seen around the blogosphere, most fans are in agreement that this was very much a set-up episode. Let's start with what happened in the "present time" (meaning early 2008)...


NO NEED TO ASK
HE'S A SMOOTH OPERATOR
SMOOOOOTH... OPERATOR

How cool was it that we actually got to see Ajira 316's landing on Alcatraz Island? Even though we already knew that the main characters ended up safe and sound, it was still very tense to watch... or at least it was for me. But I shouldn't have been worried, because Clean-Shaven Lapidus is all business, all the time. Granted, he was clued in to the fact that the plane would probably be taking a little detour, and I'm pretty sure he hadn't broken out his margarita mix for a mid-flight cocktail just yet, but regardless... I still applaud how quickly he was able to think under pressure and avert a mountain collision.

Then we got confirmation that the Others had in fact finished most of the runway on Alcatraz in time for 316's arrival (it still wasn't long enough... but it's the thought that counts, right?). As a refresher, when Kate and Sawyer were held captive and forced into physical labor by the Others in Season Three, they were shown clearing away and breaking up boulders and whatnot. In that season's finale, Sawyer asked Juliet what the end goal of the project was, and she responded "we were building a runway ... for the aliens."

At the time, most of us -- like Sawyer -- laughed it off as a joke and didn't think twice about her comment. But upon a review of that exchange, it's clear Juliet wasn't kidding about the runway part:

SAWYER: So, when you pulled us out of those polar bear cages and put us on the chain gang, what the hell'd you have us breaking all those rocks for anyway?
JULIET: We were building a runway.
SAWYER: Runway, for what?
JULIET: The aliens. [Smirks] I don't know what for, do you think they told me everything?

We last saw the runway near the end of 2004, when the Others had just begun working on it. Contrary to a few comments I've seen on some message boards, Ben did not order the runway project to be "moved up two weeks." I reviewed the transcript for "I Do," in which Juliet and Pickett had a conversation about something being moved up two weeks, and I really don't think they were talking about the runway:

[Kate is shown breaking rocks. Juliet and Pickett stand off to the side, talking in hushed tones.]
PICKETT: I don't understand. It's supposed to be two weeks.
JULIET: Our schedule's been moved up.
PICKETT: That's an order?
JULIET: It's coming from him.
PICKETT: It's stupid.
JULIET: It's not my call. It's the way it is, Danny.
PICKETT: Alright.
[Juliet walks over to Kate.]
JULIET: [To Kate] I would like you to put this on, and come with me. Please. [Hands Kate a hood]
I forgot how much I hated Pickett! Anyway, I'm pretty sure they were talking about Jack having to operate on Ben earlier than expected. That's why immediately after that conversation, Juliet takes Kate to see Jack, whom she tries to convince to cooperate with the Others in order to save Sawyer. I don't think we were meant to read anything more into the "two weeks" comment.

Either way, the two bigger questions are:

1) Can we safely assume that the Others continued to work on the runway during the three years the O6 were off of the Island and the Left-Behinders were back in the '70s?

I think we can, because, um, how else could the runway be there for Frank's convenience in 2008? And I think could still be the case even if the Losties altered the course of events back in 1977 (more on that later).

2) Who ordered the runway to be built, how did they know it would be needed, and why exactly did they decide the project should begin in 2004?

Apparently the producers answered the first part of this question in March 19th's audio podcast, so if you want to know, go listen to that (and please don't leave it/refer to it in the comments, as I won't publish anything spoilery). I can only assume the answer will be revealed on the show in due time, too. My guess for now is that someone who is aware of the time loopiness that's going on and has retained at least some knowledge from all of it would realize the need for a landing strip... and the most obvious person is Ben -- especially since he was on the plane that used the runway and was the leader of the Others in 2004.

Overall, though, I'm just impressed that what most of us had deemed to be a throwaway comment from the middle of Season Three was tied back into something fairly major in Season Five.


WAS IT SOMETHING THAT HE SAID...
ALL THE VOICES IN YOUR HEAD

Let's rewind just a bit to something that happened mid-air when Frank was struggling for control of the plane. While his ill-fated co-pilot was hollering "Mayday!" into the radio, a spooky, deep, automated-sounding voice reciting The Numbers could be heard in the background at the same time. If you didn't catch it, the audio from that scene is here (it's quick!). This is most likely the same message that Sam Toomey and Leonard Simms heard when they were stationed at a Naval listening post in 1988. If right now you're like, "Who the hell are Sam and Leonard?" then I ask you to think back... way back to the first Hurley-centric episode... Season One's "Numbers." And then read the first full paragraph here and I'm sure it will all come back to you.

Rousseau's team had also heard a transmission of the numbers -- it was actually what led them to crash on the Island.

So why it is a big deal that Lapidus and his co-pilot heard it as well?

It's a big deal because we know that by the time Oceanic 815 crashed in 2004, Danielle's French transmission (the one the Lostaways heard in the pilot episode) had replaced the Numbers Transmission. So what is going on?

I think there are two possible scenarios:
1) The plane was just picking up a broadcast from an earlier point in time because weird crap like that tends to happen on and around the Island. It could be comparable to when Sayid and Hurley heard what seemed to be a radio transmission playing big band music from the 1940s as they were monkeying around with the two-way radio found by the Tailies in the Arrow Station ("The Long Con," Season Two).

2) Something the Losties did during their time-skipping or Dharma-infiltrating changed the past, and as a result, Danielle's transmission was never recorded.

I'm leaning toward the latter explanation. Especially after seeing how different the Barracks looked in this episode. Once again, more on that issue later.

However, there's actually something even more puzzling -- on this same topic -- that is really throwing me for a loop. And that's how different the Numbers Transmission sounded when we heard it for a brief moment during "This Place is Death" compared to what came over the radio in "Namaste."

In a scene where Jin and Rousseau's team were walking through the jungle, we heard the numbers through Montand's receiver. Many people thought that the voice sounded like Hurley's, especially during "23" and "42." Thanks to reader EB for this link, where a Lost fan put together a quick audio/video clip of the scene in question (the audio will replay twice... just keep listening).

Regardless of whether or not you think it's Hurley rattling off the numbers, it's definitely not the same voice that could be heard through Ajira 316's radio. Though I believe there were a few other goofs in this episode, I don't think the production crew would make this kind of mistake -- someone obviously went through the effort of recording two different transmissions.

So what does it mean? Before you leave a knee-jerk explanation for me, think it through... because I have thought it through and can come up with no reasoning that makes sense as to why Montand would hear one voice that sounded like Hurley in 1988 and Frank would hear a different one in 2008. If it was Hurley (or someone else who sounded like him) that recorded the message in the '70s, shouldn't Montand and Frank both have heard the same thing?


SO WHAT
I'M STILL A ROCK STAR
I GOT MY ROCK MOVES
AND I DON'T NEED YOU

After Ajira 316 comes to rest on Alcatraz Island, Caesar approached Ilana to see if she was OK. As he calls her "lady," I guess we can assume that they didn't know each other before the flight. Some people thought she said "Sarah?" when she first woke up (the only Sarah we know of on the show is Jack's ex-wife... unless you count the fake name Ana Lucia used during her little fling with Jack's dad), but others heard "Jarrah?" -- as in Sayid's last name. I think that makes more sense, as she was accompanying him.

From "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham," we know that Caesar followed through with his plan to search the Hydra buildings, while Ilana chatted up No Longer Dead Locke. In the meantime, Frank took off after Sun, who took off after Ben, who must at least be in semi-favor with the Island, as his injured arm had already healed.

While those three were having their stand-off near the outriggers, I kept thinking, "Something's gotta happen because we know Locke finds Ben alongside the other injured passengers." However, I was not expecting Sun to treat Ben to a Kwoncussion-by-oar, of all things. Her expression afterward, combined with her "I lied" reply to Frank, was my favorite part of the episode.


Sun and Frank made it to the other Island and found the pier in shambles. When something started moving in the brush, I was like, "VIIIINNNNNCEEENNNNTTTT!!!!! YESSSSZZZZZ!!!!!" But alas, our favorite yellow lab did not grace the screen with his presence. There were whispers, quiet monster-sounds and even some wisps of smoke/fog all throughout the Main Island scenes, so I think it's fair to assume that ol' Smokey was nearby.

One person who was definitely there was Zombie Dad -- and Sun and Frank could see him! How eerie was it when that door creaked open and he was standing still in the shadows? I would've busted out in the other direction immediately, but Sun was all, "Hey freaky dude, where's my husband?" and then proceeded to follow him like it was no big thang. I am sure this was not meant to be a funny moment, but I was laughing because Sun was all, "Whatever, I've seen everything at this point."


THROUGH SPACE AND TIME
ALWAYS ANOTHER SHOW
WONDERING WHERE I AM
LOST WITHOUT YOU

From what I can tell, the scene in which Zombie Dad shows Frank and Sun the 1977 Dharma Recruits picture is the hottest topic of debate from "Namaste." Why? Because the Barracks seem to be in much worse shape than they should have been.

This has sparked disagreement amongst Lost fans about when exactly Ajira 316 landed. I was surprised that there was any controversy about this, because I thought the "Thirty Years Earlier" note that was shown after Ajira 316 touched down should have killed any questions about the year in which the Frank, Locke, Sun et al had returned. Sawyer told the Returnees that it was 1977. 1977 + 30 = 2007... except that we know it's got to be at least half-way through January of 2008 since Locke/Bentham's passport wasn't issued until December 12, 2007...

... and then we know that Jack told Ben that it had been a month between the last time he'd talked to Locke and Locke's death. But it would've been lame if they noted "Thirty Years and One Month Earlier" or "Slightly More than Thirty Years Earlier" or "Three Hundred Sixty-One Months Earlier"... so we've gotta just roll with it!

However, some people can't let this one go, claiming that the fact that it went from night to day when the plane's controls started failing meant that all of a sudden it was a different year. I would remind those people, though, that we have proof that when the 815ers crashed the first time around, it remained the same year on-Island as it did off-Island for them. From Daniel's experiment we know that there may be some small glitches in the passage of time on and off of the Island, but overall, I think the "Thirty Years Earlier" message was meant to help clear up the time line.

Perhaps one reason why some remain unconvinced that Sun and Frank could really be in 2008 is that the Barracks looked so drastically different than when we last saw them in 2004. At the end of last season, Keamy's group had blown up a few buildings, but otherwise things had been kept fairly neat and tidy by the Others once they took over the neighborhood after 1992's Purge. We had certainly seen no evidence of Dharma logos on doors or old Dharma initiation photos on walls or registration signs hanging off of their hinges. So what is going on?

There seem to be three schools of thought on this one. (Before anyone gets offended and flames me, these are not my personal thoughts... I'm simply conveying the gist of what I've read across various message boards.)

1) "Thirty years earlier" message be damned! They've GOT to be in a much later point than 2008 in order to explain the condition of the Barracks. Daniel said that "what happened, happened," so the Losties couldn't have changed the past!

2) Sun and Frank weren't even AT the Barracks, you fools! The Barracks are inland and within the sonic security fence, which we did not see those two cross. (Want proof of the Barracks' location? Check out Ben's map from the Season Three finale.) Sun and Frank only made it to the old Dharma Processing Center, which is right off of the pier and which the Others probably left alone after the Purge. So the Losties didn't change the course of time, Ajira landed in 2008, and people are freaking out about nothing.

3) The average viewer thinks "Barracks" when they see yellow houses. Millions of Lost fans who don't read any blogs or message boards aren't going to know the location of the various Dharma buildings in relation to the rest of the Island... when they see Sun and Frank amidst yellow buildings, they would assume they're at the Barracks, and therefore that's probably what we superfans were meant to assume, too. And since the Others had been living at the Barracks for twelve years until Keamy's men showed up, there's no way that any of the structures would've been in such disarray after just three years. The Lostaways changed something when they went back in time.


I'm not sure where I stand on this issue, except that I definitely don't agree with theory #1.
#2 does make a good point about the location of the processing center versus the rest of the Barracks. However, the first thing that came to my mind when Frank and Sun approached the Dharma buildings is that whatever the Losties did back in the 70s must have set off a domino effect of change. For those of you holding on to something the producers said on a past podcast about how the rules of time travel for the show wouldn't be like on Heroes where someone could go back in time and affect the future... I gently remind you that these are the same guys who said during Season One that, "As the show progresses, it won't venture too far into science fiction as its mysteries unfold. Nothing is flat-out impossible. There are no spaceships. There isn't any time travel." My point is, if I were one of The Powers That Be on the show - I would definitely be throwing out half-truths left and right in order to keep people guessing. What fun would it be if they just told us exactly what to expect all of the time?

All that being said, I still remain in limbo about whether or not I think the future has been changed.

Four more quick things about this scene, and then it's time to get our groove on in the '70s:
- I don't think the random chick behind Sun is Claire. I think it was a production error. And even if it was Claire... then what? I'm not sure that would really be important, either... we've seen her with Zombie Dad before, after all.

- There is not a missing person in the Dharma photo. I rewatched this scene, and the guy in question steps out from behind the woman in front of him a few seconds later. He was short. That's it.

- Now that it's been confirmed that Sun, Ben, Frank and Locke didn't end up in the same time period as the others, the question becomes, why? I've seen tons of theories floating around about this issue, but quite frankly, all of them have gaping holes. Since I get the sense that the majority of this season, if not the rest of the series will revolve around reuniting everyone,
I have a feeling we might get more clarity on this subject soon. It may also be one of those mysteries that never gets explained and we'll just have to deal with it!

- Zombie Dad told Sun, "I'm sorry, but you have a bit of a journey ahead of you." What does that mean? To the bullet point above, does Sun need to find a way back to the '70s, or does she need to roam around the Island until she finds a 60-something-year-old Jin, or does she have to wait a long time before Jin returns to the present? My brain seriously cannot handle trying to think of how any of these scenarios (or other variations) could play out. So on that note, let's rejoin the other 815ers in Dharmaville, where life was a lot simpler.


I'D LOVE TO CHANGE THE WORLD
BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO
SO I'LL LEAVE IT
UP TO YOU

I'm glad we got to see a little bit more of the reunion with Hurley, Jack and Kate. As soon as Jin heard that Sun had been with them, however, he wanted no part of the hug-fest... he took off for The Flame to see if a plane had been spotted. Did anyone else notice how the group neglected to mention that Ben was also along for the ride?

Anyway, there's not a ton to comment on about the trio's induction into the Dharma Initiative. As I said at the start of this post, it was fun to watch, but didn't necessarily advance or create any theories. Therefore, allow me to cover the bulk of my observations from the 1977 scenes in bullet point format:

- The reunited Lostaways quickly confirmed that three years had passed (for everyone) since they'd last seen each other. Don't think too much about how that could work, or else you'll drive yourself crazy like I did. I would venture to guess that Locke definitely lost three years of his life, though... which is I guess a small price to pay for being brought back from the dead. And Ben would have lost ten months when he flashed from the end of 2004 to October 24, 2005 after turning the FDW.

- "I gotta find a way to bring 'em in before somebody else finds 'em and they screw up everything we got here." This is what Sawyer told Juliet when he finally spilled the beans that the others had returned. I think he obviously was talking about the fact that he didn't want the Left-Behinders' covers to be blown... but I think his words might take on another meaning as things go forward. Let's face it, who would you feel closer to: people you knew for three months, or three years? How much motivation will Sawyer have to return to his rightful year or give up the life he's created with Juliet -- despite what he knows about the fate of the Initiative?

- How HILARIOUS was it that Jack was assigned janitorial duty? I'm sure it took everything in him not to blurt out, "But I'm an MD, dammit!" And did Juliet make Kate sweat it out for a few moments there on purpose, just to mess with her? What would you have done? (For the record, I have no idea why Chang had on a Swan jacket in the Dharma orientation video the new recruits watched... when that station hadn't yet been built.)

- So Amy and Horace's baby is Ethan. I've seen a lot of people riled up about this as he clearly looks a lot older than 27 in 2004. I'm more interested to learn why/how Ethan survived the Purge when we know his father and the rest of Dharma did not. And why did he grow up to have such super-strength? One guess is that, unbeknownst to Amy, Horace actually agreed to give his son to Richard as yet another (extreme) goodwill gesture to make up for Sawyer killing two Hostiles. That would mean Ethan was "raised by an Other." Hee, hee. Anyway, how priceless was Juliet's expression when she learned who she was cradling? That was my second-favorite moment of the night. Also, I really, really do not like Amy. Something about her just screams "evil bee-otch."

- Sawyer told Jack that Daniel wasn't there "anymore." Since we know from the season premiere that at some point Faraday was in a Dharma jumpsuit as the Orchid was being built, the question now becomes... where did he go? One theory is that he left the Island in order to build The Lamp Post back in L.A... but the timing doesn't work. Dharma used The Lamp Post to find the Island in the first place. Another theory is that Daniel is physically there but is much like his old pal Theresa in that his mind is constantly jumping around. That would definitely suck, so I hope that's not the case. I have no other ideas as to where he could be, except that maybe he did leave the Island in order to keep himself from talking to Little Charlotte, and now he's chillin' in Tahiti or something.

- Sawyer isn't going by Sawyer or James anymore. It's Jim or LaFleur, thank you very much. And as that sketchy Phil guy told Jack, he actually hates being called James. Just one more reason to wonder whether Sawyer is going to want to shake up his present situation... looks like he's bid his past an emphatic "good riddance." And speaking of sketchy Phil... he definitely seems to be noticing that something's a bit off about the Returnees.

- The Sawyer/Jack showdown was another incredible moment of the night. I enjoy (and have always enjoyed) both of these characters, and scenes in which they go head to head never fail to be top-notch. In "Exodus, Part One" (which remains one of my top five episodes), I about lost it when Sawyer finally told Jack that he'd seen his father (Christian/now Zombie Dad) in Sydney right before he died. Their face-off in "Namaste" was at that level of intensity. Great, great scene. I personally thought that as Jack walked away, he truly was relieved to not be in control and to let someone else worry about what to do for a change. The question is, how long can he resist the urge to take charge?


WHY DO WE ALWAYS COME HERE?
I GUESS WE'LL NEVER KNOW
IT'S LIKE A KIND OF TORTURE
TO HAVE TO WATCH THE SHOW

This section's lyrical heading was taken from opening theme of The Muppet Show, which could clearly be seen in the top-left monitor of Radzinsky's video wall. Sure, Radzinsky may act like a badass, but really, how threatening could a guy who tunes into Kermit and pals be? Anyway, depending on how badly your brain aches after a given episode, those lyrics might apply to Lost every once in a while, too...

Back to Radzinsky, who many think looked like Minkowski or Crazy Leonard... but who I think more closely resembles actor Paul Giamatti. How can we not feel just a tad sorry for him, despite his rudeness to Jin, Sawyer and Sayid in this episode? I mean, we know that he's going to create the glow-in-the-dark Hatch Map and then end up killing himself in the Swan while stationed there with Kelvin, who will end up showing Desmond the blood stain on the ceiling as proof. In "Namaste," we got to see the model for that first hatch. Radzinsky started freaking out after a Hostile (Sayid) got a peek at his creation -- his main concern was that the mystery man might have seen where the hatch was going to be built.

The two main explanations I've read as to why Radzinsky would think this was such a big deal are:
1) Dharma was going to build the hatch somewhere outside of the area that their "truce" with the Hostiles allowed them to roam. Remember, there is a good chance that Amy and Paul were attacked (and Paul killed) by Hostiles solely because they were having a picnic outside the agreed upon boundaries. Which actually makes it hard to fathom how anyone in Dharma could think they'd be able to get away with building a huge underground structure in a forbidden location without the Hostiles catching on.

2) Dharma was specifically planning to build the Swan on top of/next to the buried Jughead bomb -- although they might not have known a bomb was there... they might have just detected crazy magnetic/radioactive forces and wanted to harness them for experiments. Radzinsky might have not wanted the Hostiles to mess with or know any details about Dharma's plans, even if the location was truce-approved.

Either way, the hot-headed, bespectacled spaz was not pleased when Sawyer wouldn't agree to just kill Hostile Sayid, and he threatened to tattle about the whole drama to Horace. Am I the only one who's starting to fear that this situation is not going to end well for Sayid?


WHY CAN'T WE BE FRIENDS?

Seriously, since everyone in Dharma thinks Sayid is a Hostile, how could his return to the Island result in him living out any sort of normal life? Unless, that is, the group finds a way back to the present like now.

One thing that gives me a little bit of hope is that we still have yet to learn what it was that Ben did to cause Sayid to quit working for him, head down to Santo Domingo a and take up a life of volunteerism. That would lead me to believe that another reunion of Sayid and Grown Ben still lies ahead. In the meantime, however, we got to see the first time that Ben met Sayid. Man, that kid can play "spooky" like a pro. On a personal note, Little Ben is especially unnerving to me because he looks exactly like one of my nephews -- I can't take it. Therefore, I hope we don't see too much more of him because otherwise it will be hard for me to act normal at family functions.

Anyway, I think it's fair to guess that the reason Little Ben delivers a sandwich to Sayid is because he's already met with Ageless Richard in the jungle and is developing Hostile Wannabe Fever. What will happen now? Will Little Ben report back to Richard that one of his men has been captured? Will Richard realize something strange is going on -- especially since Sawyer already alluded to his group's time-traveling adventures? Will Sayid be released and have no choice but to become "one of them"? Is that perhaps what Rose, Bernard and Vincent chose to do?

Who knows, but there's a part of me that wonders if Sayid's not above bumping off Little Ben and thereby saving some other iteration of himself the frustration of dealing with ol bug-eyes in the future...

... And yes, I guess that means that -- despite what Faraday kept insisting -- I do think the Lostaways can change the course of events. I'm sure we'll see if that's the case sooner rather than later.

*cut out best lines of episode & parting notes to keep the size down*

And as always, thanks for reading!

Young blood
03-25-2009, 12:37 PM
I hate when that woman recaps eps. shes long winded and has piss poor analogies, but I still read it each time.

chairmenmeow47
03-25-2009, 12:40 PM
I hate when that woman recaps eps. shes long winded and has piss poor analogies, but I still read it each time.

she is terribly long winded. my girlfriend sends these to me every week. and yet i'm still reading, lol. i just like that it gets me thinking of the overall story and is written more conversational. the darkufo stuff is better for sure.

Young blood
03-25-2009, 12:42 PM
church, about the "thinking about the overall story". I will read anything that has anything to do with lost.

chairmenmeow47
03-25-2009, 12:51 PM
the only thing about that article i really agree with is the fact that amy should not be trusted. that bitch does look evil, EVIL!!!!!!!!!!!

i also want to know more about why people hear the numbers when they crash into the island.

mindcradle
03-25-2009, 01:43 PM
I'm ok with the long-windedness. It just took a lot of time off my train ride.

But there's no way Sayid is offing lil Ben.

chairmenmeow47
03-25-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm ok with the long-windedness. It just took a lot of time off my train ride.

But there's no way Sayid is offing lil Ben.

i also agree with this. i think he will end up working with the hostiles.

benhur
03-25-2009, 02:29 PM
lil ben can't die...don't yall know the future and passed can't be changed no matter what happens. even if sayid were to shoot lil ben in the head with a gun it would end up being blanks or something becasue BEN DOESN'T DIE THEN.

psychic friend
03-25-2009, 02:31 PM
LOST MAKES ME ANGRY EVERY WEEK. IT IS A DYSFUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP

Boourns
03-25-2009, 03:03 PM
I am Rihanna and Lost is Chris Brown.


I kid. Last week's episode was pretty ace.

tessalasset
03-25-2009, 03:06 PM
I freaking love this show so much. I loved that woman's recap too.

BobCaygeon
03-25-2009, 06:46 PM
Best line of the night: "Three years and no bus fires. You all are back for a day..."

Young blood
03-25-2009, 07:09 PM
Even by Lost standards, Season Five opened with unprecedented degree of Christian symbolism over its first seven episodes. During the first segment of that seven-episode arc, John Locke watched the Virgin Mary fall from the sky; the final segment revealed his death and resurrection. The past two episodes have borrowed religious imagery from different sources, even further into human history. LaFleur of course embraced a number of ancient Egyptian influences. (In last week’s article, I overlooked another hidden reference. The new Dharma characters Jerry, Phil, and Rosie were named after The Grateful Dead, a band named for a passage from the Egyptian Book of the Dead, which describes burial rites and the role of Anubis.) Episode 5.09 Namaste shifts its spiritual focus about 3,000 miles east, from the Nile River to the Indus River. The first frames of the episode show the now-familiar Flight 316, with its prominent India-based Ajira Airlines logo. The word ‘ajira’ has several translations in different languages, but it translates from Hindi as ‘Island’. The episode’s title comes from Dharma Initiative’s favorite Hindi phrase. The saying Namaste can express either a welcome or a farewell. Literally, it means: “I humble myself to you,” but, as with so many other Lost titles, this one proves to be more ironic than literal. The episode was filled with different greetings, with characters expressing varying degrees of humility towards each other. In fact, the prevailing question throughout the numerous power struggles in the episode seemed to be: who is humbling themselves to whom?

Hinduism is the world’s oldest surviving religious tradition, and it encompasses a variety of different beliefs. One common idea in Hindu (as well as Buddhist) thinking is that the human sensory experience is ultimately an illusion. Under this view, the temporary division between the individual human self and the rest of the universe created an ultimately false impression. All persons are part of the same undivided self. Fittingly, the structure of Namaste embraces this lack of egoism. Although it is not the first episode to forgo the character-centric format, Namaste centers on no particular character. Each scene takes place on the Island, and showcases just about every one fairly equally across its two time periods. Lost has already alluded to the most prominent concepts in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions, sometimes directly (karma and dharma) and sometimes indirectly (samsara, the wheel of rebirth). The Dharma Initiative itself appears to practice some combination of borrowed Eastern philosophy and twentieth-century Western science. Dharma is aptly named for this framework, as both an English acronym (Department of Heuristics and Research on Materials Application) and a central idea from Hinduism. The word dharma denotes the law, the code of ethics that describes each person’s set of obligations to the rest of society. The Initiative’s logo borrows the design of a Buddhist symbol for such teachings.

(The episode even includes a return to the Flame station, along with its signature cow. Hinduism famously regards the cow as a sacred creature in the cycle of reincarnation. However, Namaste also reminds the audience not to treat Lost’s religious subtext too seriously: the Dharma initiation party includes a feast of flame-broiled hamburgers.)


ALPERT: You answer to someone, don't you? You follow a chain of command, right?
FARADAY: Yeah.
ALPERT: Yeah, well, so do I.

Namaste offered a more revealing look at the inner workings of Dharma than ever before. Almost every member of the Dharma Initiative wears a uniform that display the person’s first name, along with that person’s job assignment. From the glimpses shown here, these positions are prescribed immediately and permanently on arrival. Each person displays his or her individual dharmic duty in public: Security, Motor Pool, Mathematician, Nurse, Teacher, or Workman. For thousands of years, Indian culture used the idea of dharma to justify its own caste system. Each individual in the lower castes were required to fulfill the social obligations of its group, in order to ensure reincarnation into a higher level. It is difficult to judge whether the Dharma Initiative follows some similarly strict social hierarchy, or whether all participants are viewed as equals. Even an important figure like Dr. Chang stops by to say Namaste to the lowly Jack Workman. Their top decision-maker, Horace, goes by his first name and he apparently never talks down to anyone. Although everyone else in the Initiative walks around with their first name and title in view, two members of Dharma’s social order expressly put themselves above their subordinates. Only LaFleur, Head of Security, and Radzinsky, Head of Research, have their last names and ranks embroidered on their jumpsuits. Even without these symbols of power over their underlings, their behavior demonstrates their higher status. LaFleur has trained Jin and Miles to obey his commands, while Phil and Jerry appear to be bungling sycophants. In his brief introduction here, Radzinsky proves to be a power player, who refuses to humble himself, even in the presence of LaFleur.


Three decades later and a few miles offshore, the survivors of Ajira Flight 316 struggle to make their own group decisions, in the absence of any established social order. The first scene of the episode shows the plane’s final moments in the air, which also serve as the final moments of any defined hierarchy. The landing destroys the Ajira Airlines chain-of-command, as it kills Frank’s two direct subordinates, his co-pilot and his lead flight attendant. As with the crash of Oceanic 815, this new collection of strangers crashes from civilization and back to a state of nature. From these circumstances, our new character Caesar establishes himself as the voice of Island law. He only needs a few minutes to undermine Frank’s authority and establish himself as the Ajira leader. The tools of leadership belong to those whoever uses them. In the preliminary stages of this society, Caesar follows in the footsteps of the famous Roman emperors from which his name derives. This Caesar apparently hails to no one. His loaded name serves as an ambiguous signal at present; some caesars acted as benevolent administrators for the Roman Empire, while others became brutal tyrants. Captain Lapidus never seemed like the type for mainstream politics, and he steps away during the power play. Having lost everyone else he knew from the plane, Frank feels determined to look after Sun, his only remaining friend.


SAWYER: Well, well, well. I don't know if you Islam's got a concept of karma, but I get the sense this island just served you up a heaping platter of cosmic payback.

Meanwhile, Lady Kwon stages her own coup d’état against the leadership of Mr. Linus. Ben wastes no time before heading back to his old group of cohorts on the main island. Even so, he cannot resist the prospect of adding Sun as another follower in the mean time. No matter where he goes, it seems Ben needs the feeling of power that comes from stringing people along with the carrot of his superior Island knowledge. In a refreshing reversal, Sun in fact was manipulating Ben for her own benefit, in a Ben-like fashion. She uses a combination of deception and brute force to eliminate him as soon as he reveals his destination. (Let this be a lesson to everyone: never underestimate a Kwon.) In doing so, Sun and Frank manage to trade away one enigmatic leader for an even more mysterious one. After a cameo from the Monster, the Dharma Processing Center becomes an inverted counterpart to Jacob’s Cabin. Christian uses artificial lighting for the first time, and then he answers Sun’s question with a dated photograph, empirical evidence of her friends’ whereabouts that requires no act of faith. Even after his death, Christian Shephard continues to live up to the role that his name implies. The shepherd is a protective figure, and also a modest leader, who guides the flock in the proper direction whenever one strays.


In his second tour of duty on the Island, Jack Shephard has given up any of his old responsibilities and become a member of the pack. Reincarnation is one of the central themes of Hinduism and Buddhism, often visualized as the soul replacing one set of clothes for another. According to some Eastern traditions, karma, the sum of a person’s actions in life, and the extent to which they fulfill their dharmic duties, determines a soul’s status upon reincarnation. Just after Dr. Chang greets him with a half-hearted Namaste, he humbles Jack with the news of his work assignment. In his rebirth into the Dharma Initiative, he has entered into the lower castes of their society. The Island does not appear too pleased with his previous work. Quite possibly, this same concept applies to Ben as well, who suddenly finds himself at the mercy of Sun and Locke. Both Linus and Shephard became ill toward the end of their respective reigns, and now karma has even more humbling experiences in store for them in the next life. Interestingly, the Dharma Initiative assigned both of the 2004 leaders the position of Workman. This sign leaves two interpretations: either Dharma management is incompetent enough to let them slip through its administrative cracks; or the Island wanted these two men to live as subservient pawns rather than powerful chess players.


BOONE: Red shirt. […] Ever watch Star Trek? […] The crew guys that would go down to the planet with the main guys, the captain and the guy with the pointy ears, they always wore red shirts. And they always got killed.
LOCKE: Sounds like a piss-poor captain.

Jack’s humility lessons continue when James delivers his own, less supernatural, brand of payback. Jack enters the LaFleur household with the vague ambition of fixing the Sayid situation, and he leaves relieved of any responsibility. Not surprisingly, the showdown between Shephard and LaFleur became the most heavily discussed scene of the episode. After three years, the two men have reversed their roles, with James established as the upstanding civil servant and with Jack demoted to the fringes of society. The conversation creates multiple feelings of déjà vu, not only from past Jack-Sawyer arguments, but also with shades of Benjamin Linus and John Locke. LaFleur’s entire demeanor seemed equivalent to the Linus style of putting others in their place: sitting down patiently, reading a book, preying on insecurities, and asserting his own superiority. James also described himself in Jack-like terms, as a savior of sorts. The lines, “I saved your ass today. […] I'm gonna save Sayid's tomorrow,” echoed some of Jack’s repeated promises to fix people. Moreover, because James assumes autonomous control over security, Jack now becomes free to find his own destiny, in the same way that Locke once forged his own path when Jack was in charge. Regardless of different leadership styles, the task of saving lives on the Island seems to be an impossible one. Despite all of Jack’s efforts, only a handful of people survived. LaFleur’s people will soon be wiped out completely during the Purge, no matter how hard he tries. The Island seems primed to teach the new James the same harsh realities that so many other characters learned: if you aspire to save people from Death, the Universe will find a way to show you who is really in charge.


Similarly, Dr. Juliet Burke was once regarded as the savior in that little yellow village, for all of its mothers and children. Despite her years of research, the cycle of birth and death had different plans for all pregnant women on the Island. In the previous episode, Juliet finally had the opportunity to deliver a child safely on the Island, the chance to feel that she had accomplished something good in her journey. Such happiness always proves to be a fleeting sensation for Lost characters. When Juliet holds the baby in her arms, Amy destroys that brief feeling of contentment, with an innocent mention of its name. The word Ethan does not carry the same connotations for Juliet as it does for the Oceanic group. Not one of Juliet’s infant patients has outlived her, and Ethan is no exception. Baby Ethan serves as a cruel reminder of her failure to solve the pregnancy problem, as he himself died to his obsession with Claire and her baby. Along with Richard, Ethan was one of the people who originally recruited her to the Island prison. Juliet and Ethan remain trapped in an infinite loop of birth and death, each one leading the other to the Island. Currently, the life of Ethan represents the one tangible impact that the group of time-travelers has made in 1977, and it sets the precedent for all further actions. Any efforts to make the world of 2004 into a better place will accomplish nothing. Their influence on the universe will be neither positive nor negative, but only bring about the inevitable.


SAYID: What good it would be to kill you if we're both already dead?

For Sayid Jarrah, his rebirths always amount to nothing more than lateral moves. His own personal wheel of samsara is a series of wars, solitude, imprisonment, and torture. Sometimes he gets to inflict pain upon others, but sometimes others inflict pain upon him. While Jack, Kate, and Hurley all arrived together and assimilated into the Dharma Initiative, Sayid was all alone and in chains. There is no peace for him. Instead of a Namaste welcome, his old friend points a gun in his face. LaFleur’s interrogation forces Sayid to admit falsely that he is ‘one of them’. Ultimately, the answer to that question is meaningless to him. As he has moved from one side of a war to another, or from one side of a cage to the other, his level of freedom never increases. The final scene of the episode reintroduces Sayid to the personification of his suffering, the emotionless and unblinking face of Benjamin Linus. The young Hostile-obsessed man in front of him will grow into the monster who caused the deaths of countless Oceanic survivors, quite possibly killed Penny and Nadia, and murdered this idyllic Dharma community. Apparently, the downside of Dharma’s caste system is that it only takes one disgruntled and power-hungry Workman to destroy a utopia. Sayid’s lack of liberty extends beyond those bars and handcuffs. Any attempts to stop this dictator from succeeding will fail. The life of little Ben is as secure as the lives of all characters during their own flashback scenes (or, by the same token, the lives of any character already shown to be alive in flash-forward scenes). Worse yet, anyone who interacts with Ben will become complicit in shaping his personality into its adult form.


Aside from discussions of leadership, Namaste has also generated a heated debate that centers on the same question introduced in the opening scene of Season Five: can the past be changed? The popular interpretation seems to be shifting in favor of multiple timelines. Understandably, many people feel that the time travel plot would be meaningless unless something changed. Personally, I disagree with this argument (continuity issues aside). On the contrary, human actions are only meaningful, because they occur just once. If the Lost characters somehow changed the show’s history, then large portions of the story would disappear. Whether past, present, or future, every event in the universe is final, along with all of its consequences. Although the characters must have a limited impact on their environment, the characters themselves will continue to evolve throughout this entire experience. To borrow a concept from Hinduism, the cycle of reincarnation allows the human soul itself to move closer to enlightenment. A person cannot fix the universe, but we can heal ourselves. If their ultimate goal is inner peace, then these souls all have a long journey ahead of them.


This episode was awesome for the liquid acid, and syaid laughing in his jesus christ pose.

Im still trying to wrap my head around how ben didnt die.

thestripe
03-25-2009, 09:04 PM
It was so good to see that little shit get shot. Well done, Syaid.

benhur
03-25-2009, 09:12 PM
oh noz! dat meenz dat bin wuz nt reeeleee bin

fikus222
03-25-2009, 09:50 PM
Good episode....I will post more after I re-watch the episode tomorrow.

I hate how they cut and paste previews together. For instance the preview's for tonight's episode tried to make us think that we would see a cat fight between Juliette and Kate.

bballarl
03-25-2009, 10:21 PM
Not only did Sayid trip balls, but he also killed Ben? Crazy.

Where is Faraday in all of this?

tessalasset
03-25-2009, 10:33 PM
I hate how they cut and paste previews together. For instance the preview's for tonight's episode tried to make us think that we would see a cat fight between Juliette and Kate.

we were talking about that during a commercial too. her line was something like "i didn't know if you guys could stay away" and they cut it to her just saying "stay away" and the look in her eyes happened to be a little piercing. lame editing.


and goddammit, sayid is a killer. why the hell would he shoot him once in the chest and run off? shoot his fucking brains out, dude. KNOW that he's dead. now sayid's just in deep shit.

sddoctor
03-25-2009, 10:34 PM
Ben can't be dead..."there are rules".

It's been blatantly obvious that "whatever happened, happened". Ben will be rescued by Juliet and Jack, ala the spinal surgery the two performed on Ben in season 3 (or was it season 4?). As to why Ben continues on to carry out the purge on the Dharma Initiative, I don't know why.

...and except for the accent, Oldham looked very much like the island's familiar spectacled villain, a very well-aged Ben Linus. Why was Oldham living in a teepee in the jungle, away from the rest of the Dharma crew, in solitude? maybe as to not run into his younger self? A simple tent in the jungle would surely be susceptible to an attack by the Hostiles, yet somehow, Oldham is seemingly untouched.




....on another note, i've been reading supposed well-informed speculations on the season finale...and it will be very interesting if this is true...the 'others' and the temple play a part in the 2007 timeframe, and perhaps we may see familiar faces in a different light.

bballarl
03-25-2009, 10:36 PM
Ben can't be dead..."there are rules".

It's been blatantly obvious that "whatever happened, happened". Ben will be rescued by Juliet and Jack, ala the spinal surgery the two performed on Ben in season 3 (or was it season 4?). As to why Ben continues on to carry out the purge on the Dharma Initiative, I don't know why.

...and except for the accent, Oldham looked very much like the island's familiar spectacled villain, a very well-aged Ben Linus. Why was Oldham living in a teepee in the jungle, away from the rest of the Dharma crew, in solitude? maybe as to not run into his younger self? A simple tent in the jungle would surely be susceptible to an attack by the Hostiles, yet somehow, Oldham is seemingly untouched.


....on another note, i've been reading supposed well-informed speculations on the season finale...and it will be very interesting if this is true...the 'others' and the temple play a part in the 2007 timeframe, and perhaps we may see familiar faces in a different light.

My guess is that he lived in a teepee in the jungle in solitude because he was a drug-addled hippie.

sddoctor
03-25-2009, 10:43 PM
My guess is that he lived in a teepee in the jungle in solitude because he was a drug-addled hippie.

That is probably why, I already forgot about the drugs he forced on Sayid...but I still think Oldham looks eerily like an old Ben Linus

tessalasset
03-25-2009, 11:43 PM
i am going to a panel with all the Lost writers tomorrow in beverly hills so i'll ask them about Oldham.

what else should i ask them? this is assuming there's a Q&A section of the panel.

bballarl
03-25-2009, 11:48 PM
Ask them when Walt comes back.

ivankay
03-25-2009, 11:48 PM
Please write a review and take pictures if you can. i wanna go.

fikus222
03-26-2009, 02:34 AM
and goddammit, sayid is a killer. why the hell would he shoot him once in the chest and run off? shoot his fucking brains out, dude. KNOW that he's dead. now sayid's just in deep shit.

Totally, Sayid was slacking, he knows two bullets is the rule.

Boourns
03-26-2009, 02:36 AM
I fell asleep and missed the end, and the new South Park. Fail.

CrimesceneCookie
03-26-2009, 02:58 AM
Oldham looked very much like the island's familiar spectacled villain, a very well-aged Ben Linus. Why was Oldham living in a teepee in the jungle, away from the rest of the Dharma crew, in solitude?

he's there with his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl.

http://darylgregory.com/images/LarryDarylAndDaryl.gif

captncrzy
03-26-2009, 05:50 AM
Damn, Tessa, you go to all the good stuff!

I want to know why Sun didn't flash, if whoever Jacob is will be revealed soon, what happened to Claire....I'm sure there's more.



Also:




Sawyer: How are you doing?
Sayid: A young Benjamin Linus just brought me a chicken salad sandwich. How do you think I'm doing?

ivankay
03-26-2009, 07:17 AM
It's not a big call, but:


i could almost see Sayid thinking of killing little Ben. He seems like he's going that crazy to the point where he would have no regard for the timeline that has to happen

i figure the Island will either heal (if he's still alive) or resurrect Ben because he definitely has work to do. If that's not the case, then Sayid just fucked up the time line and who knows what catastrophe will follow.

i loved it when Sayid told Oldham he gave him the right amount.

Cancersticks1
03-26-2009, 07:29 AM
That was the first episode this season that I didn't care for. Even the "cliff-hanger" at the end was lame and predictable, especially since we know Ben doesn't die, no actual suspense there. By the end of the episode i was wishing young Ben would kill Sayid rather than vice-versa, that lsd/truth -serum scene was truly awful. Also, Sayids "kill a chicken coming of age story" was so fucking lame compared to Eko's similar yet far more traumatic one. And once again the girl he's getting cuddly with is out to get him, blah blah blah, and again that wasn't a surprise because we knew that already. This episode was basically a rerun.

Boourns
03-26-2009, 07:35 AM
So weren't there at least 40 survivors on the island, most of whom didn't get any screen time? What happened to the rest of them?

chairmenmeow47
03-26-2009, 08:21 AM
"a twelve year old ben linus brought me a chicken sandwich, how do you think i feel?!"

FUCKING AWESOME EPISODE! ben going crazy on psychadelics was awesome. "YOU'RE GOING TO DIE YOU KNOW!" AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

loved it. but ben can't die, i just don't see how. i hope the island brings him back to life or something like that, cause that would just make my head explode.

also just love how ben taunted sayid to come back to america by saying that guy was outside hurley's institution, and then sayid ends up in a cell on the island... with lil ben bringing him a sandwich. and sawyer allowing tortue to sayid was a bit ironic, after season 1.

i need to re-watch as i was drunk last night. fucking awesome though.

kitt kat
03-26-2009, 08:49 AM
this episode reminded me of my favorite tracy line from 30 rock:

"Past Pete is here to kill future Pete!"

1litro
03-26-2009, 09:37 AM
Best line of the night: "Three years and no bus fires. You all are back for a day..."

http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL844/8886649/21692566/359495315.jpg

Yee Haa

Blinken
03-26-2009, 10:25 AM
So I figured out how I want this show to end. With humanity being destroyed, all thanks to Sayid killing Ben.

Ben has to know everything though, Sayid shot him as a kid that is something you don't forget. He would recognize him when he was being tortured by him. He would know they went to the 70's when they dissappeared from the plane, that somehow they travel back in time and that Sayid would ultimatly shot him as a kid. I think that Sayid is really changing things in the past at this point or Ben is really controling alot more than we think and has been doing so since he first meet Sayid. Infact that could be how he knew the plane was going to crash in the first place and knew to get a spinal surgeo on board.

Alot to digest from last nights episode.

real talk
03-26-2009, 02:40 PM
he's there with his brother Darryl and his other brother Darryl.

http://darylgregory.com/images/LarryDarylAndDaryl.gif

I KNEW that guy was familiar! He's on True Blood too. What a career rejuvenation.

tessalasset
03-26-2009, 03:24 PM
Please write a review and take pictures if you can. i wanna go.

no pics allowed but i'll bring a notepad.

thestripe
03-26-2009, 04:42 PM
I KNEW that guy was familiar! He's on True Blood too. What a career rejuvenation.

He was on Deadwood. The hotel owner.

fikus222
03-26-2009, 04:59 PM
You guys do realize that Oldham was in Blade Runner too, right?

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/1982_Blade_Runner/Thumb/982BLR_William_Sanderson_006.jpg

Blinken
03-26-2009, 05:00 PM
He was on Deadwood. The hotel owner.

Thanks i was trying to figure that out.

real talk
03-26-2009, 07:38 PM
That's RIGHT The! I forgot he was on Deadwood. He was nasty on Deadwood.


You guys do realize that Oldham was in Blade Runner too, right?

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/1982_Blade_Runner/Thumb/982BLR_William_Sanderson_006.jpg

I did not realize though I don't think I could tell you anyone else that was in Blade Runner either so that's a wash for me.

fikus222
03-26-2009, 08:42 PM
That's RIGHT The! I forgot he was on Deadwood. He was nasty on Deadwood.



I did not realize though I don't think I could tell you anyone else that was in Blade Runner either so that's a wash for me.

Daryl Hannah, Rutger Hauer, Harrison Ford and directed by Ridley Scott. If you haven't seen it definitely do so. It holds up well for a sci-fi movie from '82.

corbo
03-26-2009, 09:44 PM
holy S. just saw the latest episode. best ep of the season. it reminded me why i like this show so much. WTF is going to happen now!!!??

Sexecutioner
03-26-2009, 09:48 PM
what if ben was always supposed to die as a kid, but somehow found away to escape it for a while, like charlie did. and sayid was the islands way of course correcting. probably not, since you wouldnt think it would take the island 30 years to finally correct, but who knows. just a thought...



maybe it's a crew member going ah-da-da-dah, like this in the background. what the fuck is it with her? What doesn't she fucking understand? is it fucking distracting having somebody walking up behind Sun in the middle of the fucking scene?

and thats pretty funny!:rotfl

fikus222
03-26-2009, 09:55 PM
Come'on people, it's merely a flesh wound ;)

Monklish
03-26-2009, 10:03 PM
Island brings him back to life.

If not, this show just got unbelievably fascinating.

tessalasset
03-26-2009, 10:04 PM
i just got back from the Lost panel. it was so much fun.

funny this whole page is about Deadwood, cause one of the questions asked of the writers obviously was how they started out, and Liz Sarnoff used to be a writer on Deadwood.




it was Damon Lindelof, Carlton Cuse, Liz Sarnoff, Adam Horowitz, and Eddie Kitsis and the spoke for 2 hours and then afterwards we all went out into the lobby to just mingle with them and drink and eat. They're all fucking hilarious of course but they had an interesting dynamic. Carlton was definitely the most serious one out of the group. Took the questions seriously. Damon was very thoughtful most of the time. Liz was very detailed and was constantly being picked on. Adam had the cute quiet one liners and was just like a big teddy bear you wanted to hug. and Eddie was the most outspoken of the group. At times he seemed a little cocky and would talk back to and/or make fun of Damon and Carlton. All in good humor but he just did it SO much that it got annoying after a while. Adam and Eddie were younger - probably mid-late 20s. Liz, Carlton, and probably Damon are all in their 40s. But Liz, Eddie and Adam all definitely worked under Carlton and Damon.

The theater was pretty intimate and I got 5th row center. At the beginning when they introduced everyone, they asked us not to take any pictures because it was very distracting and they were filming. I knew my camera phone wasn't going to flash, but I was so close that they could see me taking a picture of them and I then got all self-conscious, so I didn't. Bummer. SO close. The moderator was really good. She was a professional tv writer and also a huge fan of the show so she knew all the nuances. It helps so much when the mod is on the exact same page as you. She even asked the one question I was going to ask them. I wanted to know, when they first hired Michael Emerson, if they knew at that point that Ben was going to become pretty much the biggest character on the show. They said when they wrote him, Ben had a 3-episode arc. Amazing. He was going to be Henry Gale caught in the net who turned out to the the leader of the others. If the actor could pull it off, they'd consider exploring it further. If he sucked, they'd say like "oh he wasn't actually the leader, he was just a random other." They said as soon as they saw Michael act the scene where he says "Do you have any milk?" they knew they had struck gold.

For those of us debating earlier in this thread, they said definitely the four toed statue belongs to the huge egyptian statue they showed this season. So we can cross that one off.

The episode that explains the origins of Jack's tattoos has become a long-running joke in the writers room. Liz says she gets so much shit for that episode. Everyone on stage started laughing as soon as Carlton brought it up. They don't take it seriously at all.

Someone asked if they ever had characters that they were going to go one way with and ended up having to scrap them or weren't able to do what they wanted to do with them. Carlton goes "uhhh....Paolo and Nikki?" and everyone laughed. The questioner said "I was thinking more along the lines of Walt, actually." and Carlton, instead of saying something cryptic like "we havent seen the last of Walt," actually explained that sometimes shit happens. In the case with Walt, the actor just grew up way too fast and they couldn't really fit him into the story lines anymore. He pretty much admitted that Walt's story line is done. He also referenced Eko, and how the actor who plays him straight up just didn't like living in Hawaii and asked to be killed off. I know we know that already but yeah.

They said time travel has been in their plan since season 2.

At one point the moderator was like "I was just thinking about last night when Sayid was killing--" and this girl in the audience screams out "NOOOOO!" cause she hadn't seen it yet. Everyone started cracking up and Carlton was like "What? Were you expecting to just come here and close your ears or something?" so the mod kept going and was like "ok come on, we all know Sayid kills people. That's what he does." and Damon was like "that's like saying 'next episode, Jack is going to go like this' ::looks forlornly at the ground with his head in his hands::."

one of the coolest things Damon said tho was someone asked what they hoped we all get out of the show when it's over. Damon said how when they first started the show, in the pilot when they had Charlie ask "guys, where are we?" that was basically their way of saying to the audience "ok, now it's your turn to play." they really just hoped they could get the audience interacting from day one.

oh also someone asked how long they thought the show would last when they first wrote it, and they said they originally wrote it for a 12 episode show, one season. they didn't think it was gonna do well at all and figured hell, we'll just write they best show we'd ever want to watch and if we go down, we'll go down in flames. then after the pilot aired and they got the ratings in, Damon called up Carlton and was like "fuck! now we have to write for a 100-episode show!"


I can't remember that much more but they taped the whole thing and are going to sell it on a dvd on the WGA website in the next month or so. I think it's like $15.

thestripe
03-26-2009, 10:14 PM
That's awesome.

tessalasset
03-26-2009, 10:24 PM
oh another thing i remembered:

some chick asked why at the beginning, when they got off the island, jack at first wanted nothing to do with aaron and wouldn't be a part of their lives, but then within the next episode or two, totally changed his mind and started a life with them. carlton said pretty much they just didn't feel that was an important enough story to take time on and just let it be that jack changed his mind. there wasn't any deep underlying cause behind it. they just had more important story lines to get to. so we're never going to see anything more on that.

mindcradle
03-27-2009, 12:07 AM
Benja men lionus can't go out like that!

atom heart
03-27-2009, 06:22 AM
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/VOL844/8886649/21692566/359495315.jpg

Yee Haa

Not that they have any time for frivolity in this show anymore, but I would love to have an extended segment of Sawyer, Miles, and Hurley just talking about how ridiculous everything has gotten. That would make my week.


I thought the part when Sayid said that he thought that he had no purpose being on the island was really meta. I'm sure he echoed a lot of the audience's thoughts.

ivankay
03-27-2009, 07:38 AM
Thanks Tessa. i felt like i was there.

1litro
03-27-2009, 07:40 AM
http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt144/1litro/6805.jpg
I think Jack has a thing for Sayid

BobCaygeon
03-27-2009, 07:47 AM
I can't remember that much more but they taped the whole thing and are going to sell it on a dvd on the WGA website in the next month or so. I think it's like $15.

It won't turn into an official Lost podcast? Those are always good fun.

chairmenmeow47
03-27-2009, 08:43 AM
awesome reporting, tessa. nice work. sad to hear about walt, after all that build up!!!!!!

Blinken
03-27-2009, 09:11 AM
Thanks Tessa, that was a great read. :D

Sexecutioner
03-27-2009, 09:28 AM
i thought that the storyline for lost was all written before hand, like all along they knew how it was going to turn out, and just had to fill in some details and drama along the way. but reading what tessa wrote, it sounds like they are just making it up as they go along. whats the deal?

chairmenmeow47
03-27-2009, 09:36 AM
no, they never said that. if you watch the season 1 commentary, they make it clear they were really only thinking about that first season. it wasn't until season 2 that they started thinking about the future. that's why we can't really trust a lot of the promises they made in season 1 about how there wasn't going to be any time travel. i think we can assume that for the most part, they had an overall story plan starting in season 2, but obviously there's room to play with as actors have minds of their own and people like micheal emerson are too awesome for just three episodes.

Sexecutioner
03-27-2009, 09:53 AM
thats good to know. i guess i just heard some bullshit info a while back, but i thought they had this whole master plan they were following. although, it kind of ruins it for me now that i know they are just sort of making it up as they go along. for some reason thats just not as cool to me.

tessalasset
03-27-2009, 11:01 AM
they did keep saying last night that from the beginning, they've always had a beginning and and end point. they just change their minds sometimes for how they're going to fill in the gaps.

ShyGuy75
04-01-2009, 10:14 AM
*hangs head in message board shame*

Young blood
04-01-2009, 10:25 AM
You are trying to hard.

mindcradle
04-01-2009, 06:05 PM
Fuck Land of the Lost, it's all about the Land of the Living!

kitt kat
04-01-2009, 08:30 PM
WHAT THE FUCKKKKKK!?!?!?!!!!!!1

sddoctor
04-01-2009, 09:35 PM
I didn't like the way they explained away the fact that Ben should have known the Losties when they landed on the island..."he will forget everything that's happened and will lose his innocence"...This could be a link to Rousseau's boat crew coming back from the temple in a different way...?

...But the Temple is undoubtedly magical is someway...i'm telling you now that it's going to be a big part in the final episode of the season.

...the mention of Widmore and was it "Ellie"?, from the Others was good. Remember Ben did "take the island away from Widmore"...per Widmore and Ben's vengeance conversation they had last season. Alpert definitely only serves the Island.

...The whole Hurley and Miles conversation on time travel was fun at first, but quickly got annoying.

I wonder where Sayid is? is he with the Others?

Kate's story was a nice wrap-up...

John Locke at the end was great.

Sexecutioner
04-01-2009, 09:52 PM
next episode looks GOOD!

i definitely want to know more about the temple!

LooseAtTheZoo
04-01-2009, 10:11 PM
I give up. I am officially resigning as a fan of this show.

OnlyNonStranger
04-01-2009, 10:13 PM
I hate Kate.

kitt kat
04-01-2009, 10:14 PM
evil old ben is smoke monster reincarnation ben

oooooooooooooooooooooo

bballarl
04-01-2009, 10:23 PM
I KNEW they would take him to the temple. I knew it.

Sexecutioner
04-01-2009, 10:33 PM
I hate Kate.

QFT!

tessalasset
04-01-2009, 11:14 PM
oooh we are on page 108 of the lost thread.

Somewhat Damaged
04-02-2009, 05:41 AM
Don't know what you're talking about, I'm on page 81.

bug on your lip
04-02-2009, 05:47 AM
i heart Locke Jesus

Cancersticks1
04-02-2009, 06:48 AM
I didn't like the way they explained away the fact that Ben should have known the Losties when they landed on the island..."he will forget everything that's happened and will lose his innocence"...This could be a link to Rousseau's boat crew coming back from the temple in a different way...?

...But the Temple is undoubtedly magical is someway...i'm telling you now that it's going to be a big part in the final episode of the season.

...the mention of Widmore and was it "Ellie"?, from the Others was good. Remember Ben did "take the island away from Widmore"...per Widmore and Ben's vengeance conversation they had last season. Alpert definitely only serves the Island.

...The whole Hurley and Miles conversation on time travel was fun at first, but quickly got annoying.

I wonder where Sayid is? is he with the Others?

Kate's story was a nice wrap-up...

John Locke at the end was great.

Yeah, I found that a little contrived. Ben secretly knowing all of this was much more sinister and interesting than Ben actually believing he was born on the island, blah blah blah.

Young blood
04-02-2009, 07:17 AM
The last 2 to 3 eps could have been edited down into one. Saying Ben wont remember is bullshit, he will remember, there is a method to his madness. I think the next two will be awesome.

chairmenmeow47
04-02-2009, 08:10 AM
i actually like kate when she has nothing to do with jack or sawyer :x

i'm glad cassidy called bullshit on the baby, jeez, FINALLY SOMEONE NOTICES THAT ARYAN LOOKING CHILD DOES NOT BELONG TO FRECKLES.

the hurley & myles conversation had us cracking up.

i'm glad ben "lives", cause my head would have exploded if he hadn't. i also like that ben's dad knows that he took the keys. and i wonder if the shooting was before or after annie...

ivankay
04-02-2009, 08:15 AM
Hopefully Jack will have a nervous break down when he realizes he is responsible for Ben turning out "evil" by not saving him.

i'm digging Horace's leadership. When Jack was all like "He couldn't set the bus on fire cause he was in his cell" and Horrace gave him the "duh" layout of events, that was cool.

Down Rodeo
04-02-2009, 01:16 PM
Wow, next week's episode looks really sick. The last two have been pretty good, but haven't really thrilled me. Oh, and also....

WHERE THE FUCK IS DANIEL FARADAY????!!!

chairmenmeow47
04-02-2009, 01:20 PM
WHERE THE FUCK IS DANIEL FARADAY????!!!

i'm guessing we don't see him until the finale. fuckers.

i just hope ben doesn't end up being judged by aliens & some crystal skull.

and i wonder if richard meant ben wouldn't remember the whole being shot & being given the power to live thing. i don't know that we can assume richard meant ben wouldn't remember EVERYTHING prior. cause christian obviously knows jack and seems to have gone through the same experience as ben, but i guess we don't know.

kitt kat
04-02-2009, 02:28 PM
isn't faraday underground digging mines and shit? i remember them talking about people at another station...he's building the swan, isn't he? (or whatever the model from the last episode was)

benhur
04-02-2009, 02:56 PM
this might have been discussed but the reason ben does remember everyone...

remember how he tells michael to get Jack Kate Hurley and Sawyer (right? or maybe sayid) and bring them to that dock by the statue....it was because he knew who they were. it also explains how he knows their lifestories when they get onto the island, which means that we have not seen the last of the contact between little ben and the oceanic members.

tessalasset
04-02-2009, 03:45 PM
he had patchy research them when the plane crashed i thought.

chairmenmeow47
04-02-2009, 03:51 PM
ben's list:

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/lostpedia/images/thumb/3/3e/MichaelsPaper.jpg/200px-MichaelsPaper.jpg

lostpedia & lists, there are a few different lists (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/List)

so no sayid, interesting. this adds to my theory that ben only won't remember the events surrounding being shot, not forget his entire past, but we'll see.

also, we did see faraday building the orchid; however when asked "he's here?", sawyer said "not anymore". that's all we know about faraday at this point.

Sexecutioner
04-02-2009, 03:58 PM
he had patchy research them when the plane crashed i thought.

exactly. it wasnt from memory, it was research he ordered right after he saw the plain go down.

Young blood
04-02-2009, 04:02 PM
from darkufo

Things I Noticed - "Whatever Happened, Happened" by Vozzek69
Posted by DarkUFO at 19:52 (Comments: 132) Comment Pop-up
Labels: Recaps, Vozzek69, Whatever Happened Happened

THINGS I NOTICED - EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED HAPPENED

For some reason, these lack of action type episodes seem to go by faster than those where everything's happening quickly. Whatever Happened Happened was a good episode, presented in our well-loved oldschool LOST flashback format. It's also now my favorite Kate-centric episode. Things I Noticed:

Do You See What I See? Probably Not.
Not me, mind you... but the characters on LOST. Know what they see? Only what they need to see. Or more specifically, only what they need to be shown. Which is why when Jin turns little Ben over, the bullet hole in his zip-down hoodie is now on the exact opposite side of his chest - on the other side of the zipper. It's not even close, it's a complete mirror image of the spot where Sayid drilled him precisely through the heart.

Continuity error? Maybe on 24. But this is LOST, and we're seeing exactly what the island wants us to see, through Jin's eyes. But through the eyes of Sayid? For him the bullet went right through the kid's heart - no need for a coup de grace. And this, my friends, is how the island isn't so much manipulating the events or happenings we see from week to week. What's being manipulated are the perceptions and experiences of the characters on LOST, and yes, even the flashbacks. I'll go further nuts on this at the end of my review, but for anyone still dangling from that last thin thread of the continuity argument? It just snapped.
Aaron, I Don't Think We're in Kansas Anymore
Kate shows up to Cassidy's house listening to more Patsy Kline, showing me that the island's record collection is about as extensive as its liquor cabinet. "The only thing different, the only thing new" - extremely telling, considering that this episode goes to great lengths letting us know that nothing is different, nothing is new. By the end of the episode it's been purposely drilled into our heads that everything that happened well... happened. Even the next line of the song could be applied to Kate's future situation regarding Sawyer and Juliet: "I've got your picture, she's got you".

And so Kate sing-songs her way up to Cassidy's front door, looking a lot like Dorothy from the Wizard of Oz and carrying Aaron instead of Toto. Again, she's singing the song that Claire's dad used to sing to her - the same song on Aaron's baby mobile. In this flashback Kate's just settling into her comfortable off-island dream world, she's got fistfuls of money, no one's chasing her, and she's getting ready to set up house with Jack and Aaron. She has no idea that her off-island world is a complete fabrication, one that will dissolve quickly away once the island summons her back a few years (or yellow bricks) down the road. Look around: even Cassidy's neighborhood seems impossibly bright, neat, and picture perfect - it's no wonder Kate's singing.

Here Cassidy seems to be the voice of reason in a world of fantasy. She rains on Kate's little Sawyer parade, and balks at Kate's big string of lies. Kate begins to tell her partial truths, hoping that this will appease her, but Cassidy's way too smart for that. Time spent grifting with Sawyer has rubbed off on her, and she tosses Kate's main lie, which is of course Aaron, right back in her face. The little play kids blocks on Cassidy's table almost spell out the word 'Stop' (actually BTOP but the 'B' looks like an 'S' when obscured by the cactus, and the 'P' is misaligned) - perhaps a message left by the same person who slapped the "I was here moments ago" sticker on Charlie's guitar. Whether this was to stop Cassidy from grilling Kate, or to stop Kate from lying, or whether I'm just reading wayyyy too much into a couple of plastic blocks, I don't know.


If He Dies... He Dies.
Jack finally says "no." Man, I thought that rocked. I loved it that Jack goes all Ivan Drago on little Ben's mysterious moving wound, and it's about time. The reverse roles are getting crazier and crazier, with Jack shrugging uncaringly much the same way Sawyer did when Jack tried to shake him down for Shannon's asthma inhaler. Kate even looks at him the same way she looked at Sawyer back then, a combination of incredulity and disgust. But this time we can't blame him: Jack makes a pretty good argument for not wanting to help Ben, even as a young kid.

Not much to say here, because Jack put it all very well: he's been here before. He's already operated on Benjamin Linus to save his life. He's already taken that shower that he's about to take, he's already stepped out in that towel and been reflected in that mirror... we've heard this song already. The only difference is that this time, Jack's on the Locke side of the coin. "Maybe the island just wants to fix things itself" - this is something S1-4 Jack Shephard would never have said. Months, years of trying to deny the impossibilities of what's been happening to everyone has finally give Jack a front row in the first pew of the church of faith - not science. This, plus his talk with Sawyer seems to have sunk in: Jack's taken the time to examine all the actions he's taken since flight 815 crashed, and he's determined that nothing he did really accomplished anything. Whatever was going to happen would be unfazed by Jack's intervention... and when Jack did intervene, it was simply because he was meant to. Totally maddening. Imagine realizing such a total loss of control - that nothing you ever did, or would do, really mattered at all. THIS IS WHAT JACK'S MEANT TO THINK. This is what the island has been trying very, very hard to show him. When Jack mentions he'd been "getting in the way" it's because he HAD been getting in the way.

Will Jack be like this from here on out until the end? The island would certainly hope so. It's gone to great lengths to tear down Jack's whole belief structure, to put him in the place he is now. But in the end, I think Jack's going to rise back up - and it will be all the more dramatic when he does. Jack's got a hugely important role at the end of the story, and I'm pretty sure he'll need to be the old Jack in order to play it.


You Got Two Pints of Katie In You Buddy!
Ironically enough, Uncle Rico finally gets to (indirectly) see time travel. Last episode they had us feeling bad for Benjamin Linus, but in this one you couldn't help but lend some sympathy toward poor Roger. He's been dealt some pretty bad cards: not too smart, wife dies during childbirth, lured unknowingly to a better life that contained nothing more than a mop bucket. We saw the human side of him as he admitted his failures to Kate, who unknown to him could empathize with him over the difficulties of parenthood. Roger's problem is that he takes his life's frustrations out on the only other person in his life, his son. Yet after watching him this episode, we saw that he had genuine fear, worry, and love toward wounded Ben - even after he knew he'd taken his keys. A cool side to a tough character.


Miles + Hurley = Pure Awesome
If anyone should get a spinoff show, it should be these guys. Their conversation this episode rang with the clear echoes of the debate within LOST's audience: the people who believe that everything we see is predetermined and unchangeable, and those who believe that changes can, will, and may have already been made. "You're an Idiot", Miles tells Hurley, representing the Everything that Happened, Happened argument. But Hurley's response is equally cool: "Am I?"

Admittedly, it sure looks as if Miles' argument is winning - at least this episode. Miles' linear explanation of living life straight through, gaining memories, and of how going back in time wouldn't affect the future through death and dying... these ideas all seem very rational and well thought out. Hurley's question as to why Ben wouldn't have memories of Sayid when he meets him in the future is a good one, but then again Ben hasn't exactly been forthcoming with information since the day we met him. And Richard's hint at Ben "forgetting everything that's happened" seems like a very convenient (or bullshit?) way of explaining away this plot hole, if in fact it is a plot hole, which I'm pretty sure it's not.

Does this mean I've changed my mind about predetermination? Not even close. You've got to ask yourself why the writers would go to such great lengths to explain this in such detail... so much that they'd even name the episode this way. Convincing us that nothing can ever be changed is akin the island convincing Jack that nothing he really does matters anymore. It's akin to Hawking telling Desmond that his only destiny lies in pushing the button. It's a smokescreen, a curtain - it's just a big fat giant set up. They do this so that when things finally do get changed, or we get verification that things have already been changed, it'll be that much more a dramatic yanking of the rug from beneath our proverbial feet. Stick with me on this - you don't wanna be the ones flat on your ass while the writers are standing there grinning and holding the carpet.


However...
There is one thing I'll eat crow on this week: my last week's assertion that Kate was going to try and convince Sawyer she came back to the island 'for him'. I still think the ABC promos screwed me a little on that one, but I'll say this: the character of Kate went a long way toward winning me over this episode. I'm also pretty sure the writers tried extra hard to create an episode that shed some good light on Kate, and they fully accomplished this. Kate's actions concerning Aaron were entirely unselfish.

And although Kate came back because the island summoned her, one cool thing to note is that Kate came back with a purpose: Claire. This seems pretty important considering that, other than Sun, no one else came back to the island with any sense of purpose whatsoever. Sayid came back unwillingly, and Jack and Hurley's most popular answer: "We just gotta go back".

Also important, it seemed Kate couldn't go back to the island until she'd resolved something: her lie. This was part of the whole redemption-before-getting-on-the-plane process. Jack, the inventor of the lie, had to finally (and besottedly) admit to himself that they weren't supposed to leave. Hurley spilled the entire can of island beans to his mom at the kitchen table, absolving himself of his own lie. Sayid's big lie was apparently trying to be a carpenter instead of a killer. And at the end of this episode, Kate finally tells Cassidy and Carole everything: all about the plane crash, Claire being alive, and how she assumed custody of Aaron. Her lie is now over, and that's when she gets on the plane. Maybe Sun ended up in 2007 because she never resolved her lie? Dunno.


Jack's Not Fully Clean Until He's ZestFully Clean
Whether Juliet was furious with Jack for not helping Ben, or whether she just wanted a look at little Jack, I'm pretty sure they've filled their quota of Jack coming out of the shower scenes.


Dharma Might Wanna Invest in a Portable Stretcher
The island's healing properties must be working overtime the way Sawyer's lugging little Ben through the jungle. When that 2nd van pulled up to the sonic fence, I thought for sure Jack was gonna step out of it. But when Sawyer did, it was pretty cool that he'd come to help Kate with Ben. Three years with Dharma have instilled him with old Jack-like qualities and sense of responsibility. And I don't want to get my hopes up, but Sawyer's words to Kate in the jungle seemed to put another nail in the quadrangle coffin. Aside from being changed, he does seem done with her.


He'll Always Be One of Us
Richard steps out of the jungle looking very Jeff Probst, somehow already aware that Sawyer's asked "his people" to bring Ben Linus to him. No coconut telegraph this time, Richard's gotten word of Ben's impending arrival from communicating with the island or perhaps from Jacob himself. He must answer to one of them, because as he tells his men, he certainly doesn't answer to Charles Widmore or Ellie.

"He won't remember any of this"... Richard's words here are intentionally non-specific. Obviously this means Ben won't remember being shot, but after his trip to the temple just how far back won't Ben remember? Could it be possible that Ben won't remember anything at all? If so, this would explain his long ago assertion that he was born on the island. But also if so, wouldn't this render his past childhood flashbacks of Annie null and void, making them useless in future Ben-centric episodes? And if Ben suddenly has no past knowledge of his life before the temple, would he still be able to seamlessly assimilate back into Dharma society, wait another 15 years or so, and then execute his role in the purge? Or is this HOW he does it, without any guilt or remorse, other than for Horace? Man, that's a lot of new questions.

In the past, I've mentioned that Ben's "I was born on the island" line has always struck me as the truth - not a lie. Whatever he remembers, I think after the temple Ben is given the standard issue island re-birthing package. Desmond got one after he turned the failsafe key, although I think his was a bit different. Christian got one, Locke certainly just got one, and maybe even Doc Ray got one but drowned shortly afterward because his didn't come with anything buoyant. Perhaps the crew of the Black Rock got one also, but Danielle was handy enough with a rifle to crash that party pretty quickly.

Regardless, Richard makes a point to tell Sawyer and Kate that Ben will 'always be one of them'. Unlike Juliet who could be easily excommunicated, Benjamin Linus would be forever initiated into the Others secret club. I get the impression that Ben is about to go through a subterranean, more personal version of island baptism than the rest of the Others have gone through (with Richard maybe being the exception). In exchange for his life, poor unconscious Ben is about to sacrifice his future ability to choose any kind of destiny all his own. Later on in life, I think Ben learns this might even be worse than dying.

This is the reason why, above all else, I've always believed Ben not to be evil. He's never been his own person, and has spent his life doing the island's work. Just as the old John Locke has always been a puppet whose strings are constantly being pulled and manipulated by others, Ben's own destiny has been unwantingly placed before him at an age where he could nothing about it. It sucks, and it's always sucked. He knows this, and I think it's why Ben shouts down the island with his whole "I hope you're happy" speech and leaves via the donkey wheel. He wants to change things. Ben is thoroughly finished doing the bidding of this fickle bitch - he finally wants to have his own life. But in order to accomplish this, I think Ben knew he had to sneak back onto the island via some very shady means. Ben's helping the O6 these past two seasons may have seemed to be according to the island's plan, but I think Ben just had to make it look that way.

As I've mentioned before, I'm pretty sure Ben has a plan of his own - one he can't tell anyone just yet. His plan probably sucks too, because for once in his life he's pretty much winging it. This is why he can't foresee getting blindsided with a canoe paddle. But my point here: Ben doesn't care about the island at all.


Perception, Illusion, and Bruce Willis
In all the movies and shows I've ever watched, my biggest holy shit moment came at the end of the Sixth Sense. I was lucky enough to see that movie without knowing the ending, and I'll never forget the shivers that shot down my spine during the big reveal. Even cooler, they spent the next minute or so going back to show me just how many clues I'd missed along the way - clues that seemed so obvious at the end, but not so obvious as the story was told.

LOST's ending is going to be exactly this way. There's going to be one big huge crazy no-fucking-way reveal, and when it comes it's going to make time travel look like a secondary sub-plot. Half the viewers will act cataclysmically pissed off, but to the other half I think it will be the most ingenious thing they've ever seen.

As I watch LOST, I look for these clues. I think back to my seat in the movie theater during the Sixth Sense, and I'm trying not to get fooled again. The producers and writers have strewn clues everywhere... all over the show. But they pepper these clues with red herrings, songs, book titles, and comedic anagrams to the point where we just chuckle and start to disregard them. Kind of like the word "Illusion" on the back of the boat at the dock scene this episode (and last episode). We've seen this dock scene three times already, and each time with suddenly different dialogue, just as the wound on Ben's chest suddenly has a different position, just as the picture frames changed in Miles' flashback and a whole host of other stuff.

Humor me for a minute, and watch Kate and Aaron in the supermarket. She asks where the juice boxes are, gets distracted by Jack's call, and then loses Aaron. Watch the look the stockboy gives her when she tells him she lost her son: as he says "excuse me" his facial expressions register confusion, not concern for someone who just walked by with a little blonde boy in tow. Rewind to when Kate first asks the question, and the stockboy never even looks at Aaron. In fact, no one looks at Aaron in the supermarket at all, except for Kate. As she frantically runs through the aisles the next scene is shown, not surprisingly, in the store's giant mirror.

Suddenly Kate sees Aaron again, this time seemingly being led away by Claire. We know Claire is supposed to raise Aaron, and the island is showing Kate this. It's slapping her in the face with the fact that she's living a lie. It leads Kate back to Cassidy's house, where Clementine answers the door. "Hi Auntie Kate!", she says. She doesn't say hi to Aaron. She doesn't even look at Aaron. Strange too, because Aaron apparently rang the bell.

Later on, Kate gives Carole a picture of Aaron on a tire swing. Immediately she asks "Where is he?" Kate answers her question with "two doors down", but Carole continues to stare at the photo. Where is he indeed.

Okay, let me back up a minute. Am I saying that I believe Aaron's nothing more than a figment of Kate's imagination, and that he never existed at all? Nope. Aaron is as real as reality gets - on LOST, anyway. There are lots of people who see and interact with Aaron - Cassidy for one. But I am saying this: Cassidy's words this episode were all about how Kate needed Aaron, instead of the other way around. The minute Kate began wondering if Aaron wouldn't be better off without her, he suddenly and instantaneously disappeared.

Yes, I know they used the whole curly blonde woman scene as a vehicle to influence Kate's decision to leave Aaron with grandma. The scene where she said goodbye to Aaron was also very touching. But what if perception plays more of a part in every single character's story than most of us are really, truly looking into? What if every time we're seeing something, we're only seeing it from the perspective of the person or people involved in that scene at the time?

S2E1 - Swan Hatch. Desmond's record player, the lamps, the shelves - it all looks one particular way. An episode later Desmond storms off into the jungle and the 815er's inhabit the Swan... and suddenly all these things have a subtly different look to them. What if these things never changed at all, but the way people saw them did? Sayid saw a bullet hole in the left side of Ben's chest. Jin saw it in the right side. And when Sawyer and Kate take Ben out of the van together, the wound is now lower down, much closer to his abdomen. Is this their own vision of where the wound is? Or am I batshit crazy?

Chew on that this week, as I chew on why Ben looked so surprised to see Locke alive when he woke up (I truly thought he'd have expected it).


Scene of the Week
Hands down, the best scene this week is next week's preview. For the staunch anti-spoiler fans who don't watch previews, all I'll say is you should bring a second pair of shorts. And maybe some towels for easy cleanup.

Blinken
04-02-2009, 04:03 PM
I have couple questions from the first couple seasons that I don't ever remember being answered.

If the Dharma Incetive died out when Ben killed everyone who the hell is still sending supply drops to the island?

What the hell happened to all the children and people the Others first kidnapped from flight 815? I seem to remember Ben saying they were sent home, wouldn't that be too many loose ends for the 815 crash story?

I think I need to really rewatch the show from the begining

chairmenmeow47
04-02-2009, 04:13 PM
i don't know that we know much about why the food was still dropped. perhaps the purge was done in a way that people off the island didn't know something fishy was going on, so whoever was dropping the food from off the island would just keep sending food? but we don't even know WHO did the food drops and where they came from, so i don't think we can really speculate.

i also don't remember ben saying the people taken by the others were sent home, i just thought he said something about them being ok, but i also don't remember. i am starting to wonder if this has any real significance other than simply trying to find the "good" people and make sure they're safe.

i copied & pasted the dark UFO article to word so i could print & read at home... SEVEN PAGES

Young blood
04-02-2009, 04:19 PM
Its fucking awesome and will blow UR MIND!!!

benhur
04-02-2009, 05:51 PM
the whole aaron not existing argument doesn't explain the fact that he was counted in the oceanic 6.

the reason the food drops still occured has to be explained by the fact that someone had to still be there cause desmond was still pushing the button and the world hadn't gone Dr. Strangelove yet.

as for the younger children...no idea what happened to them. I heard an interesting theory from one of my friends today. he thought that richard could be the smoke monster and ive been thinking about it and that doesn't appear to be impossible so who knows...

also have the writers debunked any atlantis theories...that would make since to me cause there have been multiple accounts of atlantis' location from greece, to the carribean, to off the coast of morocco, to the s.e. pacific.

tessalasset
04-02-2009, 06:56 PM
goddamit i want to read that dark ufo thing so badly but i have to go to work in 4 minutes. lame.

mindcradle
04-02-2009, 09:11 PM
They don't need to debunk any Atlantis theories. If the show were to end and the explanation be "Heeeeeeeeeeeey, the island is Atlantis!"....I would murder somebody.

bballarl
04-03-2009, 12:44 AM
Once Walt comes back, all will be clear.

zajaa
04-03-2009, 01:05 AM
Once Walt comes back, all will be clear.

"it" will never be clear, they are making "it" up as they go, this is truly the most unbearable television series made. "ughhh im so lost" wow a confusing show that never resolves anything and keeps you hanging what a great concept.

maybe if there were a single sympathetic or interesting character, the projectile diarrhea plot would be less obnoxious... but it's all so fucking contrived and ridiculous.

jesus fuck, don't any of you get tired of being jerked around like idiots

apostle2
04-03-2009, 01:30 AM
"it" will never be clear, they are making "it" up as they go, this is truly the most unbearable television series made. "ughhh im so lost" wow a confusing show that never resolves anything and keeps you hanging what a great concept.

maybe if there were a single sympathetic or interesting character, the projectile diarrhea plot would be less obnoxious... but it's all so fucking contrived and ridiculous.

jesus fuck, don't any of you get tired of being jerked around like idiots

one, he never used the word "it".

two, when they pitched the show to ABC with the pilot, they had the ending and plot points for each season. they are filling in the points in between, like EVERY TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE.

maybe don't come into a thread where people talk about a show they like a lot and act like your negative opinion is fact? maybe?

atom heart
04-03-2009, 04:56 AM
As for things changing subtly, I remember years ago reading the Black Rock forum (which no longer exists) and there was someone there saying that the wall paintings in the Swan Station kept changing. I don't know if anyone had any visual evidence of it.

zajaa
04-03-2009, 08:34 AM
one, he never used the word "it".

two, when they pitched the show to ABC with the pilot, they had the ending and plot points for each season. they are filling in the points in between, like EVERY TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE.

maybe don't come into a thread where people talk about a show they like a lot and act like your negative opinion is fact? maybe?

oh shit this isn't the official i'm drunk thread is it

my bad. carry on, enjoy your show

chairmenmeow47
04-03-2009, 08:37 AM
i never get tired of being jerked... around.

and i left that darkufo article i printed on someone's desk on my way out last night, so it'll be plane reading for me tonight, i'm excited :x

atom heart, interesting, the same thing happened in that house myles went to visit where he "freed" the ghost of that grandmother's grandson.

tessalasset
04-03-2009, 12:02 PM
"it" will never be clear, they are making "it" up as they go, this is truly the most unbearable television series made. "ughhh im so lost" wow a confusing show that never resolves anything and keeps you hanging what a great concept.

maybe if there were a single sympathetic or interesting character, the projectile diarrhea plot would be less obnoxious... but it's all so fucking contrived and ridiculous.

jesus fuck, don't any of you get tired of being jerked around like idiots

i'm sorry you don't find any of the characters sympathetic or interesting. that would definitely hamper your ability to enjoy the show. i find many of them fascinating and connectible. i also LOVE the way they write the show. I know it bothers many casual fans and dani, but i love that they don't answer huge plot points every episode cause where would the fun be in that? the reason i like the show so much is because unlike all of the other shows i watch, this actually makes me think. as soon as the episode is over, it's time to talk about it and brainstorm and speculate. every lost episode is like a really good movie where you don't understand anything unless you talk it out with people. you can't just watch it and go on to the next thing or you're gonna totally lose it. i'm in it for the entire ride, and i enjoy every little nugget they give us in every episode, no matter how big or how small. sometimes you don't even know they've dropped a huge answer unless you remember all the smaller things connecting the dots. i can't even imagine how much i'm going to miss this show when it's over.

zajaa
04-03-2009, 12:25 PM
that was probably a more polite response than i deserved. thanks you're quite cool

chairmenmeow47
04-03-2009, 12:31 PM
i 100% agree tessa. i love the cliff hanger aspect and figuring out the theories. i am going to be so sad when it ends lol

apostle2
04-03-2009, 01:00 PM
I wrote an article about how I get the same pit in my stomach now when I think about Lost ending as I got when I was a kid thinking about death. That shit got me into grad school...haha

Sexecutioner
04-03-2009, 01:02 PM
when they pitched the show to ABC with the pilot, they had the ending and plot points for each season. they are filling in the points in between, like EVERY TELEVISION SHOW EVER MADE.

not according to tessa. she said it was originally supposed to be 1 season:


oh also someone asked how long they thought the show would last when they first wrote it, and they said they originally wrote it for a 12 episode show, one season. they didn't think it was gonna do well at all and figured hell, we'll just write they best show we'd ever want to watch and if we go down, we'll go down in flames. then after the pilot aired and they got the ratings in, Damon called up Carlton and was like "fuck! now we have to write for a 100-episode show!

tessalasset
04-03-2009, 01:05 PM
also, they didn't pitch the idea. ABC came to them and said "write this show."

tessalasset
04-03-2009, 01:07 PM
also sex i should ammend that statement - when i say they originally wrote it for one season - this is them writing prior to even the pilot. once the pilot blew up they then wrote it for a long series. it's not like a huge amount of time passed from the initial 1-season writing to the 6-season writing.

apostle2
04-03-2009, 01:15 PM
yeah, I was talking about with the pilot, not on original conception. after the pilot got picked up they pitched five seasons. it's in a cuse/lindelof interview somewhere...

signmeup
04-05-2009, 09:19 PM
just read this on /Film



Dexter’s Mark Pellegrino has been cast in LOST as ...

follow the link for the SPOILER, about 3/4 down the page.

http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/04/05/page-2-45/