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Deviate_420
10-11-2008, 05:07 PM
And trying to learn to play No Quarter on my guitar and came to the conclusion the Jimmy Page is the best guitar player EVER. I know this doesn't warrent a WHOLE thread so maybe this could be the default guitar thread...

MissingPerson
10-11-2008, 05:10 PM
This thread title needs Salah in it.*


*Wording chosen for comic effect.

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 05:15 PM
So you're drinking semen...

sbessiso
10-11-2008, 05:17 PM
mmm Beck semen....

MissingPerson
10-11-2008, 05:17 PM
That's better.

Sometimes I love you very much, Coachella board.

HunterGather
10-11-2008, 05:26 PM
This thread title needs Salah in it.*


*Wording chosen for comic effect.

beat me to it

BROKENDOLL
10-11-2008, 06:14 PM
Stick with the Becks. Your spelling got worse with the Newcastle. And, No Quarter? I always thought it was more of the keyboardist's song. BTW...I've been working on Your Time Is Gonna Come. Ah, and I haven't forgotten those lyrics you posted. (No progress yet. :()

Pixiessp
10-11-2008, 06:21 PM
we need another Brokendoll jam.

Cdubby
10-11-2008, 06:42 PM
mmm Beck semen....


i threw up a little bit

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 06:44 PM
Jimmy Page was never the greatest....skilled yes...but never the greatest...

Deviate_420
10-11-2008, 06:47 PM
Jimmy Page was never the greatest....skilled yes...but never the greatest...

WTF? Who else would you put better then him? Johnny Marr?

Mr. Dylanja
10-11-2008, 06:50 PM
Hendrix, no question.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 06:52 PM
Hendrix, Greenwood, Prince, Shields, Steve Howe, Gilmour, Clapton, Jeff Beck, Fripp, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Brian May, Zappa,


I love LZ but Jimmy just ripped everyone off...

Mr. Dylanja
10-11-2008, 06:53 PM
Morello?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 06:56 PM
Sure we'll throw him in there too...

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Morello? Are you fucking serious? Every Rage song contains no more than three types of guitar sounds, there's nothing that sounds remotely talented about it except for the specific combination of settings on the mix that give it that quasi-attractive tone.

Page wouldn't rank in my top five either, but I do have to admit that Kashmir has a timeless, simple and slightly magical hypnotism to it.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:14 PM
The point was really just to note that Page is not the greatest....and any greatness he had went down in a flame of heroin....


Hendrix, Greenwood, Prince, Shields, Steve Howe, Gilmour, Clapton, Jeff Beck, Fripp, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Brian May, Zappa


though I am dead serious about this list.

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:17 PM
Really? Heroin made him a shitty guitarist? So he's the only exception or what?

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:18 PM
Was he doing heroin during their first album? Can't be if it took his gift from him. The first album is the one that he really deserves no credit for, it was all stolen. When did smack supposedly start ruining him?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:19 PM
Really? Heroin made him a shitty guitarist? So he's the only exception or what?


No Clapton went down the same route...but Clapton was and is a better geetar playa the Jimmy.

It is also quite possible that Kurt Cobain could have been a better guitar player then he was if he didn't do that shit....

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:20 PM
Was he doing heroin during their first album? Can't be if it took his gift from him. The first album is the one that he really deserves no credit for, it was all stolen. When did smack supposedly start ruining him?



He started doing Heroin after psychical graffiti....and it really shows...

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Eh. People go on and on about how great Clapton is and frankly a lot of it is praise for self-indulgent solo bullshit and honky imitations of blues. Cream was sweet, but it wasn't that sweet. Of course I haven't really gone through his whole catalog but I'm also never going to because he hasn't shown enough evidence of being that impressive, just a lot of high rankings in Top Guitarists Eva lists. Stevie Ray Vaughn can get fucked too.

I put the question to you again: doesn't it seem a bit curious to you that almost all your choices for best guitarists were heroin addicts and yet you turn around and suggest that the heroin ruined all of their talents? Shouldn't the more logical conclusion be that maybe heroin contributed to their talent somehow?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:25 PM
not the best source of info but this is from Wiki


In 1976, Page began to use heroin, a fact attributed to Richard Cole, who stated that Page (as well as himself) was taking the drug during the recording sessions of the album Presence in that year, and that Page admitted to him shortly afterwards that he was addicted to the drug.[32]

By Led Zeppelin's 1977 tour of the United States, Page's heroin addiction was beginning to hamper his guitar playing performances.[14][1][24] By this time the guitarist had lost a noticeable amount of weight. His onstage appearance was not the only obvious change, his addiction caused Page to become so inward and isolated it altered the dynamic between him and Plant considerably.[33] During the recording sessions for In Through the Out Door in 1978, Page's diminished influence on the album (relative to bassist John Paul Jones) is partly attributed to his ongoing heroin addiction, which resulted in his absence from the studio for long periods of time.[34]

humanoid
10-11-2008, 07:25 PM
Hendrix, no question.

not even remotely a question

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:26 PM
After it? The band barely fucking existed after Physical Graffiti. Sorry, that's a silly point. Most once-great musicians turn to shit after their one great band breaks up.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:27 PM
Eh. People go on and on about how great Clapton is and frankly a lot of it is praise for self-indulgent solo bullshit and honky imitations of blues. Cream was sweet, but it wasn't that sweet. Of course I haven't really gone through his whole catalog but I'm also never going to because he hasn't shown enough evidence of being that impressive, just a lot of high rankings in Top Guitarists Eva lists. Stevie Ray Vaughn can get fucked too.

I put the question to you again: doesn't it seem a bit curious to you that almost all your choices for best guitarists were heroin addicts and yet you turn around and suggest that the heroin ruined all of their talents? Shouldn't the more logical conclusion be that maybe heroin contributed to their talent somehow?

Jonny Greenwood is heroin addict? Prince? Frank Zappa never even did drugs! Robert Fripp of King Crimson and the Berlin era Bowie albums?
I loved listening to Cream when I was young...good times. All his stuff after the early 70's was shite....

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:34 PM
After it? The band barely fucking existed after Physical Graffiti. Sorry, that's a silly point. Most once-great musicians turn to shit after their one great band breaks up.

But the Heroin was once of the reasons for their collapsing...well that and Bonham dying after that terrible terrible final album...

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:41 PM
Hendrix, Page, Clapton, most of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Cobain, Frusciante when he was still good, Lou Reed, Slash, Dylan some, Elliott Smith, Cantrell... sorry but most of the common top ten guitarists of all time were shooting junk at one point or another. The most notable exceptions are Greenwood, Gilmour, Zappa I guess (whatevs). That ain't much.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:49 PM
I don't think Prince was hitting the junk either.

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:53 PM
Once again--impressive jack off solos. It's guitar masturbation and clearly reveals his innate abilities but frankly all the Hendrix-esque solos in the world don't put him on that list.

Reason being that sounding like Hendrix when Hendrix already did that isn't Top Ten worthy. Love Prince but it's not like his music is really guitar music except when he decides to fucking wail away. Most of his best tracks are largely synth and horn driven. Man's a great arranger of all these instruments, but he doesn't get thrown up alongside those names for this specific discussion, sorrys.

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 07:53 PM
Similarly, everyone must smack the phrase "B.B. King" out of their fucking stupid mouths before it even gets typed. Thank you, but save it.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:57 PM
Once again--impressive jack off solos. It's guitar masturbation and clearly reveals his innate abilities but frankly all the Hendrix-esque solos in the world don't put him on that list.

Reason being that sounding like Hendrix when Hendrix already did that isn't Top Ten worthy. Love Prince but it's not like his music is really guitar music except when he decides to fucking wail away. Most of his best tracks are largely synth and horn driven. Man's a great arranger of all these instruments, but he doesn't get thrown up alongside those names for this specific discussion, sorrys.

Duly Noted...Kevin Shields?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 07:58 PM
Similarly, everyone must smack the phrase "B.B. King" out of their fucking stupid mouths before it even gets typed. Thank you, but save it.

Sir, It seems to me that you have mentioned it 1st and thus opened Pandora's box.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:03 PM
so here is a list of more "interesting" guitar players:
Ed O Brien, Tom Verlaine, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Pete Townsend,

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 08:04 PM
Kevin Shields you'll have to feed to the tourists, that racket doesn't do much for me. Although the first song on Loveless is nice. I pretty much always get so irritated within a couple songs afterwards that I have to turn it off though.

Just heading the honky pap off at the pass, TCHY. I will admit though that the composer of the single greatest piece of guitar work ever--Mason Williams, the piece being Classical Gas--has no readily verifiable evidence to suggest any drug habits whatsoever. You can have that one.

JeHgNqbdBKs

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 08:08 PM
Everyone from Radiohead is off the table--there's three fucking guitarists, impossible to attribute the majority of credit to any one. As for the dude from Television I still haven't found out what the big deal is about them, you're welcome to make a mix or something if you want but I doubt he ranks that high. Joni Mitchell is largely very boring. Young sure, although he did do his best work after watching his bandmates be consumed by heroin so in a roundabout way it still brings out the best art. Pete Townsend is a pedophile and overrated, all of The Who is.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:08 PM
I see your Mason Willaims and raise you the great Andre Segovia...

b-7YusOtj-s

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 08:10 PM
Nice. Mason still wins. I volley back the opening credits of Desperado. =)

p0hpoFbT4bQ

bballarl
10-11-2008, 08:11 PM
The correct answer is me.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:16 PM
Randall, your last video is null and void due to the Antonio Banderas being IN the video...

And I revert to Dick Dale cause it is soo much fun
Nvn-8_uO8fY



LOLZ so bad...

Backwater
10-11-2008, 08:18 PM
You guys fail for not mentioning Buckethead, Tony Iommi, Buddy Guy, Derek Trucks and Joe Satriani. Especially the first two, every metal riff is just a variation of what Iommi did years earlier.

RotationSlimWang
10-11-2008, 08:19 PM
Dick Dale is seriously overlooked. He belongs up there more than Prince just for the fact that that list should be comprised of people who redefined what guitar playing could sound like. Hendrix did, and Dick Dale fucking REALLY did 'cause nobody had even had a clue to attempt playing in that style at all.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:21 PM
I forgot about Buckethead...


eqrFesMGtvA

Backwater
10-11-2008, 08:22 PM
See Buckethead live if you ever get the chance, un-fucking-real.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Dick Dale is seriously overlooked. He belongs up there more than Prince just for the fact that that list should be comprised of people who redefined what guitar playing could sound like. Hendrix did, and Dick Dale fucking REALLY did 'cause nobody had even had a clue to attempt playing in that style at all.

I think we are getting on the same page here...I prefer the guitarist that brought something new and changed heads rather then the Van Halens of the world.. though that Dick Dale video is pretty bad though..he is there with his son.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:23 PM
See Buckethead live if you ever get the chance, un-fucking-real.


I have seen him live...he join Primus on stage from my 3rd concert ever...it was pretty crazy...

Backwater
10-11-2008, 08:24 PM
I prefer the guitarist that brought something new and changed heads

Iommi

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-11-2008, 08:25 PM
Thank You Randall, this is actually becoming a meaningful and enjoyable thread discussing some serious music...

TomAz
10-11-2008, 10:32 PM
gosh, no one's mentioned Steve Vai.

Deviate_420
10-12-2008, 01:06 AM
So much to rant and rave about, so lets start small.
1)Although Jimmy Paige did rip off Delta Blues guitarist (Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Leadbelly) he was the first to take blues playing to another level. He expounded on blues and made it what it is today. Without Jimmy, the Black Keys would not be around.
2)Do you guys not understand that he CREATED 90% of alternate tunnings? I mean, you can argue that he created modern guitar. He created sounds that had never been created.
3)Jimi Hendrix is a very talented guitar player but he simply just did not take it to the level Paige did. I mean thats not even a comparison.
4)Steve Vai? Was that a god damn joke? That guy does the same shit on every fucking song.
5)Prince does not even make top 20. Just because he played Coachella does not make him a guitar great. What has he contributed? Nothing. He is a talented guitar player, but then again so is fucking Jack White.
6)David Gillmore makes top 5. Although not as innovative as Paige.
7)Iommi is top 3.
8)Morello Doesnt make top 20, and I love RATM.
Um I'm sure I could rant even more but I have to go finish this bottle of Johnny Walker

Backwater
10-12-2008, 01:11 AM
Iommi is top 3.


Thank you. He's so often overlooked.

apostle2
10-12-2008, 01:31 AM
1)Although Jimmy Paige did rip off Delta Blues guitarist (Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, Leadbelly) he was the first to take blues playing to another level. He expounded on blues and made it what it is today. Without Jimmy, the Black Keys would not be around.
2)Do you guys not understand that he CREATED 90% of alternate tunnings? I mean, you can argue that he created modern guitar. He created sounds that had never been created.
3)Jimi Hendrix is a very talented guitar player but he simply just did not take it to the level Paige did. I mean thats not even a comparison.
6)David Gillmore makes top 5. Although not as innovative as Paige.


I like how vehemently you defend jimmy page yet you never took the time to learn to spell his name correctly.

BROKENDOLL
10-12-2008, 01:44 PM
we need another Brokendoll jam. Thanks, Pixiessp, but I'm left to only wish I could ever join the ranks of those names seen here. Doesn't hurt to dream though!


Jimmy Page was never the greatest....skilled yes...but never the greatest... I'm trying to figure out if you guys are talking greatest, most skilled, or most inovative guitarists here. I'd say your greatest guitarists would be able to pick up an instrument and pretty much play any style, whether it be classical, heavy metal, blues, rock, etc,be skilled enough to do it well, and inovative enough to add their own personal signature to that style. You can have a skilled guitarist that can whip out a lead faster than most people can think, yet ask them to play rythmn and they won't compare. Then there's the inovative guitarist that can take that instrument and redefine it's whole being by taking the basics and modifying them with a whole different technique. Nowadays, with all the effects pedals, etc, there's no stopping inovation. I, myself am more of a rythmn guitarist. I wish I had applied myself to learning more lead riffs. I'm not patient enough. I did learn picking styles early on and they tend to be a bad habit when I play. I'll hookup afew effects and get inovative, but without the basics, it ain't shit really. (But, hey, I'm enjoying myself!)


I think we are getting on the same page here...I prefer the guitarist that brought something new and changed heads rather then the Van Halens of the world.. though that Dick Dale video is pretty bad though..he is there with his son. TCHY, if there's any guitarist that has brought something new and changed heads in the last, say 30 years, Eddie Van Halen is one of them. As a matter of fact, that video of Buckethead... Sorry, never heard of him, and when that vid started, my first thought was Eddie's imfamous hammer-down/ finger-tap style. Now, I know you may be thinking, "STFU, Brokendoll," but I'm gonna add my list of "Talented Guitarists" in the order that inspired me to chase the dream...
Jimmy Page. Maybe not the greatest, but skilled and inovative? He wasn't a sessions player for nothing and who else woulda thought to incorporate a violin bow acrossed those strings and command as much attention as any lead? (Don't think I didn't go and purchase a bow shortly thereafter!:))
Jimi Hendrix. We'll never know how great he could have become, and I don't think he was as skilled as many, but inovative? Unquestionably. He would have ended up putting 2 guitars together face to face and making it sound surreal!
Eddie Van Halen. He was supposed to be learning drums when his calling came. I don't know about skilled in as much as what he did to define techniques that had never been thought of. I picture him away in his room fucking around for hours on end trying to see what else this instrument could do, and then running with it. (And yes, I tried the electric drill effect on my guitar once as well! :))
Carlos Santana, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, all had their own style and personal skill. Greatest, or inovative? Maybe not, but skilled? Yes. Being a dreamer myself, I admire them all...

chairmenmeow47
10-12-2008, 02:42 PM
Hendrix, Page, Clapton, most of Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Cobain, Frusciante when he was still good, Lou Reed, Slash, Dylan some, Elliott Smith, Cantrell... sorry but most of the common top ten guitarists of all time were shooting junk at one point or another. The most notable exceptions are Greenwood, Gilmour, Zappa I guess (whatevs). That ain't much.

why does it have to be the heroin itself? could it just be that these talents lie within and many of these people with these traits also happen to have a hankering for heroin? just like bitchy douchebags happen to also love coke? perhaps heroin enhances this part of them, but i'd say the talent was there first. hendrix is famous for his lsd guitar solo at monterrey pop, for example. but even then, i'd say true lsd users are a rare bread unto themselves. but still, what's in the chooser that makes them choose heroin? these substances just enhance something that is already there, in my opinion.

RotationSlimWang
10-12-2008, 02:59 PM
why does it have to be the heroin itself? could it just be that these talents lie within and many of these people with these traits also happen to have a hankering for heroin? just like bitchy douchebags happen to also love coke? perhaps heroin enhances this part of them, but i'd say the talent was there first. hendrix is famous for his lsd guitar solo at monterrey pop, for example. but even then, i'd say true lsd users are a rare bread unto themselves. but still, what's in the chooser that makes them choose heroin? these substances just enhance something that is already there, in my opinion.

Honestly I wasn't necessarily actually making the argument that heroin made them better, just that I always find it really weird that people act like it's a foregone conclusion that drugs robbed them of their talent. Sorry, but fuck that--shitloads of legendary musicians and artists of all types only went to shit after they sobered up. Of course some really were ruined by drugs, but I don't think the evidence supports it for the majority of legends. And death doesn't count as being ruined.

There is a strange element to being a heroin addict that I do kinda believe actually will take a talented person and make them way better at their art form. Incredibly difficult to explain exactly, especially to people that have never been junkies. Frankly it'd just come off as some horseshit druggie rambling.

I'd never claim that heroin could take a bad artist and make them good. But tragedy is an essential component to the makeup of any truly great artist, and heroin makes for a constant, pervasive tragedy. I never truly appreciated Cobain until I'd started snorting H, but then I FUCKING GOT IT SO MUCH MORE THAN IMAGINABLE. Can't put words to it easily.

Don't do heroin kids. Unless you play guitar, of course.

SoulDischarge
10-12-2008, 03:02 PM
Are we going for skill or innovation here? Because if it's the latter, you can add Chuck Berry, Link Wray, Glenn Branca, Thurston Moore, and Manuel Gottsching to the list somewhere.

RotationSlimWang
10-12-2008, 03:06 PM
Oh fuck Chuck Berry--yes I said it.

rage patton
10-12-2008, 03:13 PM
That Buckethead video was impressive.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 04:59 PM
Jimmy Page. Maybe not the greatest, but skilled and inovative? He wasn't a sessions player for nothing and who else woulda thought to incorporate a violin bow acrossed those strings and command as much attention as any lead? (Don't think I didn't go and purchase a bow shortly thereafter!:))

I am going to attack a couple of things here but this one is the greatest offender...Yes, because Page was a session musician he "picked up" alot of ideas from other bands...the "playing the guitar with a violin bow" was NOT his idea...case in point...BEHOLD!!! The Creation Making Time!
at about a 1 and 40 in...
RtPeEt8-oDM

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Kevin Shields you'll have to feed to the tourists, that racket doesn't do much for me. Although the first song on Loveless is nice. I pretty much always get so irritated within a couple songs afterwards that I have to turn it off though.

So...you say this...and then...



Dick Dale is seriously overlooked. He belongs up there more than Prince just for the fact that that list should be comprised of people who redefined what guitar playing could sound like. Hendrix did, and Dick Dale fucking REALLY did 'cause nobody had even had a clue to attempt playing in that style at all.

If your going to hold Dick Dale to that standard then Kevin Shields should also be in that cat... Kevin Shields changed the way people heard "noise" and how to play the guitar..Fuck..a whole genre was invented on his guitar playing...It influenced everyone from Radiohead to Nine Inch Nails to Boards of Canada....Billy Corgan ripped off MBV so bad that Siamese Dream sounds like SP is trying to be MBV....And the funny think with Kevin is that everyone thought it was all distortion pedals when in reality it was his use of the whammy bar and sheer volume...

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:15 PM
I'm trying to figure out if you guys are talking greatest, most skilled, or most inovative guitarists here. I'd say your greatest guitarists would be able to pick up an instrument and pretty much play any style, whether it be classical, heavy metal, blues, rock, etc,be skilled enough to do it well, and inovative enough to add their own personal signature to that style. You can have a skilled guitarist that can whip out a lead faster than most people can think, yet ask them to play rythmn and they won't compare. Then there's the inovative guitarist that can take that instrument and redefine it's whole being by taking the basics and modifying them with a whole different technique. Nowadays, with all the effects pedals, etc, there's no stopping inovation. I, myself am more of a rythmn guitarist. I wish I had applied myself to learning more lead riffs. I'm not patient enough. I did learn picking styles early on and they tend to be a bad habit when I play. I'll hookup afew effects and get inovative, but without the basics, it ain't shit really. (But, hey, I'm enjoying myself!)


Brokendoll, I am still trying to figure out that myself..I would say that the greatest would be those who changed the scenery for the better...Being a great guitar player doesn't mean being a great technical player in my mind...with enough practice..anyone can learn any song on the guitar...I'll repeat...yes ANYONE can play guitar...it is what you do with those 6 strings that put you in the greats or not...Jimmy Page..in my mind was a much better producer then a guitar player...the fucker had a ear for SOUND....just listen to when the levee breaks...those drums...NO ONE was doing that....before that most drums on records sounded tiny...and it was his ear that put LZ together...Van Halen is merely a very skilled technician...epic solos...but not much else...

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:16 PM
Oh fuck Chuck Berry--yes I said it.

If Keith Richards was still "alive" he would slap you for that one.

RotationSlimWang
10-12-2008, 05:19 PM
If your going to hold Dick Dale to that standard then Kevin Shields should also be in that cat... Kevin Shields changed the way people heard "noise" and how to play the guitar..Fuck..a whole genre was invented on his guitar playing...It influenced everyone from Radiohead to Nine Inch Nails to Boards of Canada....Billy Corgan ripped off MBV so bad that Siamese Dream sounds like SP is trying to be MBV....And the funny think with Kevin is that everyone thought it was all distortion pedals when in reality it was his use of the whammy bar and sheer volume...

1. Arguments that a shitty musician should be respected because he influenced some non-shitty musicians are invalid.

2. MBV was not a new kind of guitar playing, it was I suppose a new set of filters and amp settings and other shit to produce such a horrendously not thrilling sound, but it is not remotely remarkable guitar "playing."

3. Nothing that doesn't sound that great at regular volume can be made better music by turning it up.

RotationSlimWang
10-12-2008, 05:19 PM
If Keith Richards was still "alive" he would slap you for that one.

Keith Richards can go fuck himself, The Stones are the most overrated fucking band ever.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:21 PM
I'll put some more on the "greatest" list:
Joey Santiago
Thurston Moore
Lee Ranaldo
Bob Mould

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:21 PM
Keith Richards can go fuck himself, The Stones are the most overrated fucking band ever.


At least we can agree on that...

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
10-12-2008, 05:26 PM
1. Arguments that a shitty musician should be respected because he influenced some non-shitty musicians are invalid.

2. MBV was not a new kind of guitar playing, it was I suppose a new set of filters and amp settings and other shit to produce such a horrendously not thrilling sound, but it is not remotely remarkable guitar "playing."

3. Nothing that doesn't sound that great at regular volume can be made better music by turning it up.

1. musicians and bands influenced by MBV: Trent Reznor, Radiohead (listen to the chord progressions in Optimistic and see how closely they would fit into Loveless), Massive Attack, Spiritualized, Robert Smith, Etc..I wouldn't call those shitty...EDIT: I am retarded and I didn't properly read your questions...still I wouldn't call Kevin a shitty musician...

2.
One of the most remarkable aspects of Shields' music is his unusually thick and dreamy guitar sound, associated with his later recordings with My Bloody Valentine.

Customizing the tremolo system for Fender Jaguars and Jazzmasters, Shields manipulates the tremolo arm while strumming chords. He has had the tremolo arm on his guitars extended considerably and uses tape on one end so that the tremolo arm sits very high on the guitar and is very loose. (Alan Di Perna, Guitar World, March 1992, Pg. 26) With the tremolo arm in this position, his motion is not restricted, allowing him to strum chords without having to alter his motion to accommodate the tremolo arm. To thicken the sound, he plays through a Yamaha SPX 90 using a reverse reverb effect that inverts the normal reverb envelope without making the notes backward. (Alan Di Perna, Guitar World, March 1992, Pg. 152) Augmenting his sound further, he cranks amps to exceptionally loud volumes and uses open tunings, causing speaker "breakup" and increasing sustain. Instead of the usual note bending with a tremolo arm, he achieves a kind of chord bending that Rolling Stone described as, "a strange warping effect that makes the music wander in and out of focus".[4] Fans who played the vinyl record of Loveless were known to check the records for warping on first playing them. On the subject of 1991 album Loveless Shields remarks, "the songs do have weird timings and things, but the textures come from the guitar tunings."[5]

3. Well, that is based on what your ears like.

Backwater
10-12-2008, 05:59 PM
I'll put some more on the "greatest" list:
Joey Santiago


The Pixies are my favorite band but sorry, Joey doesn't belong on the greatest list.

Jimmy Herring is another one that hasn't been mentioned.

Deviate_420
10-12-2008, 07:13 PM
Adam Jones is the best guitar player since 1990..