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psychoc&ndy
10-03-2008, 12:42 AM
two of my roommates think it's pointless and a waste of their time to vote. give me some advice on what to tell them. it fucking pisses me off to no end

Bosco
10-03-2008, 12:43 AM
but they're right....

http://www.looptvandfilm.com/blog/douche.jpghttp://www.looptvandfilm.com/blog/turd.jpg

humanoid
10-03-2008, 12:46 AM
I personally can see valid viewpoints for either case

arbouler
10-03-2008, 02:04 AM
two of my roommates think it's pointless and a waste of their time to vote. give me some advice on what to tell them. it fucking pisses me off to no end

they're probably some third party people. which equals to not voting.

0vtHwWReGU0

Sushov23
10-03-2008, 02:37 AM
voting in this elections is like voting for lesser than two evils. both hopefuls are fucking dumb as shit, and their running mates are well........... you know. So not voting is a good option this time around like in 04. NEW Campana- DON'T VOTE

arbouler
10-03-2008, 03:12 AM
so for the people who dont want to vote, i'd like to know what kind of political system they like? democracy? theocracy? anarchy? monarchy? or dictatorship?

i mean, it's understandable why some people dont want to vote, but what happens when the whole country doesn't vote? do these people subscribe to anarchy, or what?

crazzz2007
10-03-2008, 03:15 AM
two of my roommates think it's pointless and a waste of their time to vote. give me some advice on what to tell them. it fucking pisses me off to no end

tell them it depends on what state you live in.

in california, it's a waste of time.

in florida or ohio, it's probably not a waste of time.

SoulDischarge
10-03-2008, 03:26 AM
That video really makes me want to not vote. Anyway, if you think both candidates are douchebags, at least vote third party or write in something obscene. At least that way yr actively not caring.

Pixiessp
10-03-2008, 07:02 AM
I vote so i can get that little sticker that says "I voted".

gaypalmsprings
10-03-2008, 07:23 AM
http://www.residentbush.com/Diebold-Fraud/diebold_16a.jpg

canexplain
10-03-2008, 07:28 AM
vote obama ... nuff said ..x****

M Sparks
10-03-2008, 08:16 AM
There's plenty of other good reasons to vote aside from the Presidential election. My presidential vote is almost certainly a waste in my state, but I actually can exert some influence over my congressperson, state initiatives, ect.

As Jello Biafra once said, voting is worthwhile if only to help stop new sports stadiums from being built.

SFChrissy
10-03-2008, 08:25 AM
take 'em to lunch and ask them if they will at least vote for the candidate you are in favor for...at least it helps you and the decision you stan dbehind

Quadromarshia
10-03-2008, 08:34 AM
I know a girl who goes to USC, who admittedly knows little to nothing about politics and quote "doesn't like to think", who also says thinks like "nobama".

She said she was really confused with the voter registration letter she was filling out, and I said it was alright because she has until the 10th to register, which she was relieved to hear. (Deadline in SC is Oct. 4th)

Young college republicans are such sluts. Next time I sex her up, it's ''accidentally'' going in her butt.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 08:45 AM
Fuck all you assholes. Democracy means the right to abstain too.

marooko
10-03-2008, 08:46 AM
take 'em to lunch and ask them if they will at least vote for the candidate you are in favor for...at least it helps you and the decision you stan dbehind

thats horrible. thats like when one in a married couple doesnt care, so they vote the way their S.O. tells them to vote.

please dont suggest this.


also, voting third party is not akin to not voting, or throwing your vote away. for me, it says i dont agree with this two party system.

chairmenmeow47
10-03-2008, 09:23 AM
if they don't know anything about the election nor care to vote, tell them to stay the fuck away from the polls.

algunz
10-03-2008, 10:26 AM
But, isn't psych&ndy in Iceland. Does anything matter to us over there?

Besides Bjork and for some of you Sigur Ros.

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 11:01 AM
I was wondering that myself, algunz.

higgybaby23
10-03-2008, 11:07 AM
People should have to pass an IQ test before they are allowed to vote. I am also amazed by anyone who says they are undecided. Only a complete idiot would be unable to make a choice at this point in the election process.

CalmerThanYou
10-03-2008, 11:10 AM
IQ test...LOL

We would have 2% of the population voting, and 0% of this board.

marooko
10-03-2008, 11:12 AM
not much less than what we have voting now. (i know it is. just sayin)

mountmccabe
10-03-2008, 12:01 PM
There's plenty of other good reasons to vote aside from the Presidential election. My presidential vote is almost certainly a waste in my state, but I actually can exert some influence over my congressperson, state initiatives, ect.

As Jello Biafra once said, voting is worthwhile if only to help stop new sports stadiums from being built.

This is a very good answer. Propositions and local elections often have far more immediate impact upon your life.


Also one reason young liberals (or whatever group) feel disenfranchised is because other young liberals (etc) feel disenfranchised. People go around telling their friends and peers not to vote and then use the fact that everyone/thing they supported gets voted down as evidence that it's worthless to vote.

CalmerThanYou
10-03-2008, 12:06 PM
If you don't vote, you'll die.

http://prbipartisan.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/28262-voteordie.jpg

Blinken
10-03-2008, 12:09 PM
Puffy will bust a cap in your nuts, like he did to Tupac.

allyjoy
10-03-2008, 12:17 PM
Sug killed Tupac dumbass

fiyahhh!
10-03-2008, 12:22 PM
If you don't vote, you shouldn't get to complain. There's more than just the presidential race on these ballots folks... prop 8 needs to go down in flames.

M Sparks
10-03-2008, 12:42 PM
If you don't vote, you shouldn't get to complain.

I don't necessarily agree with that...if you don't vote solely because you hate all the options, that's valid.

I generally vote Libertarian, partially because their principles are closest to mine, but also as a protest. 2004 is the first year I actually voted for a major party Presidential candidate, because Bush was the first one bad enough to make me want to vote for the "less evil" one.

fiyahhh!
10-03-2008, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=M Sparks;754708]I don't necessarily agree with that...if you don't vote solely because you hate all the options, that's valid.
QUOTE]

Write-in vote. A write-in vote for Bullwinkle is better than apathy.

humanoid
10-03-2008, 12:51 PM
Bullwinkle it is then

captncrzy
10-03-2008, 01:04 PM
http://idly.org/imgs/hippy.jpg

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 01:13 PM
two of my roommates think it's pointless and a waste of their time to vote. give me some advice on what to tell them. it fucking pisses me off to no end

Tell them that its apathetic attitudes like this that allow crazy, ultra conservative people to take office. And that its a civic duty to vote, if everyone voted we would be %100 sure about where the majority of the population stood. In the end there are always people who are going to be apathetic, if they choose to suppress their own voice and then bitch about the world then fuck them, hypocrites.

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 01:25 PM
http://idly.org/imgs/hippy.jpg
I have that on a shirt.

(tshirthell.com or whatever)

BlackSwan
10-03-2008, 01:26 PM
I personally can see valid viewpoints for either case

same here.

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 01:30 PM
I wore it when I voted in 2004.

Quadromarshia
10-03-2008, 02:40 PM
If you wear any party/campaign buttons, or if your vehicle has a campaign sticker on it, you will not be allowed to vote in South Carolina.

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 02:41 PM
Are you serious?

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 02:42 PM
If you wear any party/campaign buttons, or if your vehicle has a campaign sticker on it, you will not be allowed to vote in South Carolina.

Is this thruthiness?

Quadromarshia
10-03-2008, 02:43 PM
Absolutely.

I think I might wear an undershirt that says "YEAH, I JUST VOTED FOR OBAMA", then take my shirt off as I exit the polling area.

Not like my vote matters here anyway.

CalmerThanYou
10-03-2008, 02:44 PM
ummm, limiting freedom of speech are we?

BlackSwan
10-03-2008, 02:44 PM
wtf is going on here? link to a real news story that says that.... now!

captncrzy
10-03-2008, 02:44 PM
Fucking bbq eatin' rednecks

Quadromarshia
10-03-2008, 02:49 PM
SC CODE 7-25-180. Unlawful distribution of campaign literature.
(A) It is unlawful on an election day within two hundred feet of any entrance used by the voters to enter the polling place for a person to distribute any type of campaign literature or place any political posters. The poll manager shall use every reasonable means to keep the area within two hundred feet of any such entrance clear of political literature and displays, and the county and municipal law enforcement officers, upon request of a poll manager, shall remove or cause to be removed any material within two hundred feet of any such entrance distributed or displayed in violation of this section.
(B) A candidate may wear within two hundred feet of the polling place a label no larger than four and one-fourth inches by four and one-fourth inches that contains the candidate's name and the office he is seeking. If the candidate enters the polling place, he may not display any of this identification including, but not limited to, campaign stickers or buttons.


Alternately, it was reported on our local NPR yesterday morning.

CalmerThanYou
10-03-2008, 02:56 PM
anyone who votes will get aidz needles in their eyez

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 02:59 PM
And the roughest of buttsecksez.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 02:59 PM
Voting makes you gay(er).

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:04 PM
Fucking bbq eatin' rednecks

comments like this are so much cooler than rednecks.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:05 PM
Why are you always defending rednecks you goddamn lousy spic?

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:06 PM
SC CODE 7-25-180. Unlawful distribution of campaign literature.
(A) It is unlawful on an election day within two hundred feet of any entrance used by the voters to enter the polling place for a person to distribute any type of campaign literature or place any political posters. The poll manager shall use every reasonable means to keep the area within two hundred feet of any such entrance clear of political literature and displays, and the county and municipal law enforcement officers, upon request of a poll manager, shall remove or cause to be removed any material within two hundred feet of any such entrance distributed or displayed in violation of this section.
(B) A candidate may wear within two hundred feet of the polling place a label no larger than four and one-fourth inches by four and one-fourth inches that contains the candidate's name and the office he is seeking. If the candidate enters the polling place, he may not display any of this identification including, but not limited to, campaign stickers or buttons.


Alternately, it was reported on our local NPR yesterday morning.


I wish they would make this law everywhere.

captncrzy
10-03-2008, 03:28 PM
Why are you always defending rednecks you goddamn lousy spic?

His mom is one.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:30 PM
it just amazes me how you supposed liberal people are the first to pass judgment, discriminate and be rude and offensive.

eat a dick cap'n. well, like ten of em. you know you can.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:36 PM
redneck isn't really a discriminatory term--it refers to a group of characteristic attributes. Even a Puerto Rican knows that.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:39 PM
you know damn well its not being used that way. dont be a fucking idiot. if it were not being used as a derogatory/discriminatory term, there would be no need for you to think i was defending them.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't think you understand the meaning of "discriminatory." It's not discrimination if you're basing it on their actual character, only if it's based on attributes beyond their control. Derogatory? Well suppose we were talking about Nazis. We might still be called "derogatory," but would it really be out of place?

Fucking stupid mexicans.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:44 PM
you cant honestly tell me the way its used here is "only" descriptive.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:45 PM
That was hardly my point--I never said that it's only descriptive, I said it doesn't fit the criteria for discriminatory. Read a fucking book, beaner.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:47 PM
and you're missing mine.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:48 PM
You don't have one. You're just a reactionary little d-bag who wishes the whitewashing would finally take.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:49 PM
wow. you're always right. how do you do that?

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Step one: be born from an intelligent ethnicity.

Step two: stay away from Mexicans.

marooko
10-03-2008, 03:50 PM
again. how do you do that?

vinylmartyr
10-03-2008, 04:09 PM
The fags need my no vote on prop 8.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/

vinylmartyr
10-03-2008, 04:20 PM
here one you will like Randy. It probably a reason for most California people on this board to vote.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop5-title-sum.htm

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 04:20 PM
The fags need my no vote on prop 8.

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/

Yep. Vote no on 8 please. Thank you. Oooh, and yes on 5.

vinylmartyr
10-03-2008, 04:21 PM
PROP
5
NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENSES. SENTENCING,
PAROLE AND REHABILITATION. INITIATIVE STATUTE.
OFFICIAL TITLE AND SUMMARY PREPARED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

NONVIOLENT DRUG OFFENSES. SENTENCING, PAROLE AND REHABILITATION. INITIATIVE STATUTE.

* Allocates $460,000,000 annually to improve and expand treatment programs for persons convicted of drug and other offenses.
* Limits court authority to incarcerate offenders who commit certain drug crimes, break drug treatment rules or violate parole.
* Substantially shortens parole for certain drug offenses; increases parole for serious and violent felonies.
* Divides Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation authority between two Secretaries, one with six year fixed term and one serving at pleasure of Governor. Provides five year fixed terms for deputy secretaries.
* Creates 19 member board to direct parole and rehabilitation policy.

Summary of Legislative Analyst’s Estimate of Net State and Local Government Fiscal Impact:

* Increased state costs over time potentially exceeding $1 billion annually primarily for expanding drug treatment and rehabilitation programs for offenders in state prisons, on parole, and in the community.
* State savings over time potentially exceeding $1 billion annually due primarily to reduced prison and parole operating costs.
* Net one-time state savings on capital outlay costs for prison facilities that eventually could exceed $2.5 billion.
* Unknown net fiscal effect on county operations and capital outlay.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm still not voting, Jeff, stop trying to persuade me with nonviolent drugs and gay sex.

vinylmartyr
10-03-2008, 04:24 PM
Who could vote no on this?

http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/title-sum/prop2-title-sum.htm

PROP
2
STANDARDS FOR CONFINING FARM ANIMALS.
INITIATIVE STATUTE.
OFFICIAL TITLE AND SUMMARY PREPARED BY THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

STANDARDS FOR CONFINING FARM ANIMALS. INITIATIVE STATUTE.

* Requires that calves raised for veal, egg-laying hens and pregnant pigs be confined only in ways that allow these animals to lie down, stand up, fully extend their limbs and turn around freely.
* Exceptions made for transportation, rodeos, fairs, 4-H programs, lawful slaughter, research and veterinary purposes.
* Provides misdemeanor penalties, including a fine not to exceed $1,000 and/or imprisonment in jail for up to 180 days.

Summary of Legislative Analyst’s Estimate of Net State and Local Government Fiscal Impact:

* Potential unknown decrease in state and local tax revenues from farm businesses, possibly in the range of several million dollars annually.
* Potential minor local and state enforcement and prosecution costs, partly offset by increased fine revenue.

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 04:25 PM
If I was back in CA I'd be all over that (the props not you).

chairmenmeow47
10-03-2008, 04:26 PM
Step two: stay away from Mexicans.

well, you were close :p

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 04:27 PM
You're like a quarter Mexi, that hardly counts my little jumping bean.

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 04:28 PM
This one is quite interesting up here in WA.

(I-1000) Measure would permit terminally ill, competent, adult Washington residents who are medically predicted to have six months or less to live, voluntarily to request and self-administer lethal medication prescribed by a physician.

chairmenmeow47
10-03-2008, 04:28 PM
You're like a quarter Mexi, that hardly counts my little jumping bean.

half, but thank you for playing :)

and funny coming from you, quarter jew :p

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 04:30 PM
OMG. Intraweb courtship.

At least its not craigslist...

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 04:30 PM
HALF?! When did that happen? I swear to god, every time I turn around and say something racist you're a different amount Mexican.

Hopeless Semantic
10-03-2008, 04:32 PM
Hey man if it weren't for Craigslist AIDZ needle stabbings would be down amongst the socially inept!

chairmenmeow47
10-03-2008, 04:34 PM
HALF?! When did that happen? I swear to god, every time I turn around and say something racist you're a different amount Mexican.

umm, it happened when my dad was born to parent's from mexico and then fucked my mom and had me? it's always half, you just have a shitty memory :p

boarderwoozel3
10-03-2008, 04:41 PM
Hey man if it weren't for Craigslist AIDZ needle stabbings would be down amongst the socially inept!

The fleshy AIDZ needlez?

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 04:41 PM
umm, it happened when my dad was born to parent's from mexico and then fucked my mom and had me? it's always half, you just have a shitty memory :p

Quiet, Alzy.

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 04:49 PM
drugzz

Pixiessp
10-03-2008, 04:52 PM
dust off

amyzzz
10-03-2008, 05:16 PM
household drugzz

CalmerThanYou
10-03-2008, 06:42 PM
i want to invent a way to stab people with aidz needlez through the internet.

sin213
10-03-2008, 07:17 PM
umm, it happened when my dad was born to parent's from mexico and then fucked my mom and had me? it's always half, you just have a shitty memory :p


drugzz

too many or not enough drugzz is the question.

it's hard to balance it out just right. ;)

unknown
10-03-2008, 07:27 PM
Only on this forum can a thread go from not voting to DrugZ and AidZ needleZZZZZ

lovely

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 07:36 PM
so for the people who dont want to vote, i'd like to know what kind of political system they like? democracy? theocracy? anarchy? monarchy? or dictatorship?

i mean, it's understandable why some people dont want to vote, but what happens when the whole country doesn't vote? do these people subscribe to anarchy, or what?

There can be voting with anarchy.... for what it's worth.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 07:42 PM
There can be voting with anarchy.... for what it's worth.

... no there can't. Jared, for a relatively smart person this might be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen on this board. Anarchy is the absolute refusal to adhere to any system.

sin213
10-03-2008, 07:50 PM
i think the main issue with people who don't vote is that they feel like they "support" the person they vote for. most will say, "i don't like either, so why would i vote?"

imo, the message you have to get across to your roommates is that they don't have to "support" the person they vote for...you just have to pick the lesser of the two evils and vote for them so that the most evil one doesn't win.

hasn't anyone learned anything from South Park?? It's always going to be a vote between a douche and a turd...

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/6520/giantdouchevsturdsandwich7om.jpg

Cancersticks1
10-03-2008, 07:55 PM
Ok, enough with the douche vs. turd sandwich thing, i think thats been posted at least twice on every thread recently.

SoulDischarge
10-03-2008, 07:55 PM
Seriously. If people don't like either of the two major party candidates, why don't they just vote for someone else? Because they're wasting their vote? Don't you already feel like yr wasting yr vote? Fucking stupid. Although, if you've researched and don't like any of the third party/independents, that's fair.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 07:57 PM
It's not that I don't support either candidate, but that I don't support the system and therefore refuse to perpetuate it. Get fucked, you judgmental pricks.

Cancersticks1
10-03-2008, 07:58 PM
personally i think there should be way more media push encouraging nitwits not to vote, think of that fucking utopia.

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 08:09 PM
... no there can't. Jared, for a relatively smart person this might be the stupidest fucking thing I've ever seen on this board. Anarchy is the absolute refusal to adhere to any system.

Excuse me, "anarchism." Which I imagined was being referred to since the word "anarchy" was used in with a string of political systems.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 08:16 PM
Excuse me, "anarchism." Which I imagined was being referred to since the word "anarchy" was used in with a string of political systems.

archism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which support the elimination of all compulsory government,[1] According to wiki. How do you propose an anarchism with voting that doesn't take any of the measures voted on and impact the rest of the society with them?

Backwater
10-03-2008, 08:24 PM
If I still lived in OH I'd be voting for Obama for sure, but since I now live in CA it would just be a waste of time.

SoulDischarge
10-03-2008, 08:26 PM
It's not that I don't support either candidate, but that I don't support the system and therefore refuse to perpetuate it. Get fucked, you judgmental pricks.

It was a general statement. A lot of people who don't vote do it because they don't like the two major party candidates. I don't give a fuck what you do, especially if you have a reason to back it up. I'm willing to take a chance on what might be or not be an empty gesture that only takes an hour out of my excessive amount of free time. It's literally the least I can do.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 08:28 PM
Incorrect. I'm doing the least you can do.

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 08:30 PM
archism is a political philosophy encompassing theories and attitudes which support the elimination of all compulsory government,[1] According to wiki. How do you propose an anarchism with voting that doesn't take any of the measures voted on and impact the rest of the society with them?

Compulsory government refers to the state, in the traditional sense of rulers.

You seem to be implying (from the first line of a wiki entry) that any kind of decision making that impacts multiple people is "compulsory government." That would eliminate private property as a viable consideration. But many of the founding thinkers in "anarchism" utilize private property as a fundamental tenant of developing an anarchist system. However, under your implied definition of compulsory government, private property (a set of fundamental considerations for ownership) couldn't exist.

You seem to be generalizing the terms that the wiki entry is citing, but it's referring to a very specific thing. Bakunin first used the term "compulsory government" as a direct assault on a specific notion of the state as an entity that is composed of non-civilian leaders.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 08:34 PM
I don't understand how you propose this work, nor do I follow your assertion that compulsory government is necessary for private property to exist. Private property is a basic, inherent part of human life--people take control of shit. They own it. If someone takes it away from them it becomes their private property. Only when the government takes control of property does it cease to be private.

What would an anarchistic society be voting on without violating its basic tenets?

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 08:43 PM
I don't understand how you propose this work, nor do I follow your assertion that compulsory government is necessary for private property to exist. Private property is a basic, inherent part of human life--people take control of shit. They own it. If someone takes it away from them it becomes their private property. Only when the government takes control of property does it cease to be private.

What would an anarchistic society be voting on without violating its basic tenets?

I'm only asserting that YOUR implied definition of compulsory government is incompatible, but what you seem to be implying is not in fact what that article is referring to.

I'm not speaking of private property as some explicit notion of possession, but private property as a system for defining ownership.

If you take compulsory government as meaning what I said above, isn't it easy to imagine how "voting" might work? On the crudest level it could be direct, community lead decision making, absent a government (read STATE). It stems in many directions though, there are forms that retain many non state-based communist principals, forms that directly stem from a labor and union based structures. Anarchism isn't necessarily a reference to a specific form of political organization... I have a few friends that are self-proclaimed followers of various anarcho platforms, and they will argue distinctions in between their platforms in the same way a free-market capitalist and communist might argue.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 08:45 PM
In what possible way are you going to have these votes actually impose any effect without a "state?" It doesn't work, man. The only form of anarchism that isn't retarded is rational anarchism and that's entirely based on living a righteous, anarchistic philosophy within the unavoidable cancer of societal government.

Your friends are retarded.

Quadromarshia
10-03-2008, 08:47 PM
My question to you is: if anarchy was a choice in a vote, would anarchists vote for it?

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 09:01 PM
In what possible way are you going to have these votes actually impose any effect without a "state?" It doesn't work, man. The only form of anarchism that isn't retarded is rational anarchism and that's entirely based on living a righteous, anarchistic philosophy within the unavoidable cancer of societal government.

Your friends are retarded.

You still seem to fundamentally misunderstand what anarchism is. Of course you can "impose" decisions, directly (without a state, who are the enforcers? use your imagination man!) or indirectly (in a well designed system, if you act outside of the intentions or parameters of the system there is a cause and effect based consequence that might not come from enforcement).

I could recommend some interesting readings if you are so inclined... Fuck it, I'll recommend them regardless.

Bakunin on Anarchism/ edited by Sam Dolgoff
Statism and Anarchy/ Mikhail Bakunin
What is Property?/ Pierre-Joseph Proudhon
Anarchism and Other Essays/ Emma Goldman
The Political Philosophy of Poststructuralist Anarchism/ Todd May
Chomsky on Anarchism/ Chomsky

I hate these arguments/discussions because I never feel like I'm qualified at all to represent these views. They are too fucking open-ended for me to feel I have a good grasp of without a ridiculous amount of time invested in 'em.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 09:03 PM
I don't think you get my point. If ANYONE is imposing the decision of the voting populous on those who didn't vote then there is a system in place--a state. Anarchism cannot exist. It's like communism.

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 09:10 PM
I don't think you get my point. If ANYONE is imposing the decision of the voting populous on those who didn't vote then there is a system in place--a state. Anarchism cannot exist. It's like communism.

I get your point, but it's founded on misguided definitions of the terms. You can have a system (and one that enforces) that isn't state-based. See my unfortunately simple definition of state above. Most anarchism doesn't deny the need for a system (although they might avoid the word like the plague depending on who they are talking to).

Anarchism CAN exist, the question is could it be successful. Who knows, I've yet to come across a clear enough defined system for me to be able to qualitatively evaluate it. I think the Chomsky book addresses why that is in the most honest way. Either way, I'm not interested in pursuing this. There are more qualified minds that you could assault on this issue and I need to get some sleep since I have to get up at 5am to go and take the lsats.

rage patton
10-03-2008, 09:12 PM
In Canada there is a national Marxist-Leninist party. Anyone who tells me they are not going to vote, I tell them to vote for them. If they win, they no one will have to vote again.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 09:12 PM
Sorry sir, but your defense is based on misguided definitions of the terms. Any system creates a state. Any time a vote goes down and the winning position is put into effect it will be imposing the will of some on others, and that in itself creates a state. Anarchy cannot exist.

wmgaretjax
10-03-2008, 09:18 PM
Any system creates a state.

Sorry, but you don't seem to understand the implications of either of those words (in this context or outside of it by my understanding, which is admittedly limited).

G'night.

RotationSlimWang
10-03-2008, 09:20 PM
Send your friends over here and I'll tear the a new one too. You better not be raising my son with these horseshit ideas.

Cancersticks1
10-03-2008, 09:29 PM
I'm gonna have to agree with RSW on this one. Granted the argument seems to be technical vs. applicable anarchism but thats like argueing amish vs. mennonites.

JustSteve
10-03-2008, 09:30 PM
Sorry sir, but your defense is based on misguided definitions of the terms. Any system creates a state. Any time a vote goes down and the winning position is put into effect it will be imposing the will of some on others, and that in itself creates a state. Anarchy cannot exist.

yeah, but...

JustSteve
10-03-2008, 09:30 PM
Sorry, but you don't seem to understand the implications of either of those words (in this context or outside of it by my understanding, which is admittedly limited).

G'night.

yeah, but...

arbouler
10-03-2008, 09:52 PM
If I still lived in OH I'd be voting for Obama for sure, but since I now live in CA it would just be a waste of time.

i dunno. i've always hated the notion that it's a waste of time voting in a state where the winner is already decided. and a lot of people think that same way too. it's kinda like, giving up without putting up a fight (if you're a dem in a red state).

i personally think that it's more important to show how dense support of a candidate is in a state. i think it would help for future references to see how many people are really aligned with that candidate. a 10 point win would be nice but if everyone shows up, it'll probably bounce to a 15 point win. it just shows a statement of solidarity i suppose.

a 269-269 tie is not gonna happen, nor can popular vote affect what happens in the house or senate, but it can help the media pressure the house and senate to pick the popular candidate, and make sure they pick the right guy.

unknown
10-03-2008, 10:35 PM
i dunno. i've always hated the notion that it's a waste of time voting in a state where the winner is already decided. and a lot of people think that same way too. it's kinda like, giving up without putting up a fight (if you're a dem in a red state).

i personally think that it's more important to show how dense support of a candidate is in a state. i think it would help for future references to see how many people are really aligned with that candidate. a 10 point win would be nice but if everyone shows up, it'll probably bounce to a 15 point win. it just shows a statement of solidarity i suppose.

a 269-269 tie is not gonna happen, nor can popular vote affect what happens in the house or senate, but it can help the media pressure the house and senate to pick the popular candidate, and make sure they pick the right guy.

convinced me.... I'm back in CA from arizona and had the same thinking - what good is it if i vote? I did recently register here (just moved 2 months ago)... but I wasn't sure if I would be voting or not. Hey I get half the day off with pay so why not? hah that's horrible...

arbouler
10-03-2008, 10:40 PM
^i dunno why i said the 269-269 not gonna happen. i meant to say a tie is a possibility.

amyzzz
10-04-2008, 06:17 AM
Useful voting tips from my union

"Campaign activities are prohibited at each polling place which includes voters from wearing candidates t-shirts, pins/buttons, hats, etc. Please advise everyone you know that they absolutely cannot go to the polls wearing any candidates merchandise. It is against the law and will be grounds to have the polling officials turn you away."

Maybe it's not just your state. I thought there may have been a law because I was always afraid to do it (I had a Kerry shirt back in 04).

unknown
10-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Yeeeaah so I can still wear my Jon Stewart '08 shirt!!!

I was never aware of this type of law existing anywhere but I've always done a mail in ballot...

Quadromarshia
10-04-2008, 07:33 PM
I've never mailed in my vote, mostly because I didn't want to leave anything to chance. At least while Jeb Bush was the Gov.

MissingPerson
10-04-2008, 07:34 PM
amish vs. mennonites.

A fight I'd pay any money to see, personally.

arbouler
10-04-2008, 08:22 PM
A fight I'd pay any money to see, personally.

i'd go see a midget version of that fight

suprefan
10-04-2008, 08:35 PM
MJ says to vote

http://supermarkethq.com/pictures/0002/5012/voting_womens.jpg

Boourns
10-04-2008, 08:39 PM
Useful voting tips from my union

"Campaign activities are prohibited at each polling place which includes voters from wearing candidates t-shirts, pins/buttons, hats, etc. Please advise everyone you know that they absolutely cannot go to the polls wearing any candidates merchandise. It is against the law and will be grounds to have the polling officials turn you away."

Maybe it's not just your state. I thought there may have been a law because I was always afraid to do it (I had a Kerry shirt back in 04).

I had a Kerry pin on my backpack in 04 and nobody cared.

idrive1life
10-04-2008, 08:53 PM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/destroydemocracy.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/destroydemocracyback.jpg

Boourns
10-04-2008, 09:02 PM
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/Vaklam/Lex2000_01.jpg

idrive1life
10-04-2008, 09:17 PM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/communist_mutants-740168.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/mccain_vote.jpg

MissingPerson
10-05-2008, 11:19 AM
i'd go see a midget version of that fight

Touché.

unknown
10-05-2008, 12:11 PM
"Voting is a Thriller"... that shirt is awesome!