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marooko
08-27-2008, 09:50 AM
I'm not even sure if I wanna vote this election. I'm extremely disappointed with politicians in general and am tired of right and left. Discuss?....

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 09:53 AM
What, are you a racist or something?

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 09:54 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~kerryflipflop/images/kerry_05.JPG

locachica73
08-27-2008, 09:55 AM
This is the first time in my life I have ever registered to vote and am actually looking forward to voting. I will be voting for Obama of course. McCain scares the shit out of me. I miss the days of the prez getting a blow job in the oval office. Life just seemed better then. I am guessing Michelle will be willing to take one for the country and handle that for us.

marooko
08-27-2008, 09:58 AM
What, are you a racist or something?

what, are you stupid or something?

faxman75
08-27-2008, 09:59 AM
I'm an Obama fan boy though I don't like the way this is going. I never in my wildest dreams thought I would say it but I kinda wish Obama would have picked Hillary, she looked very good up there last night.

marooko
08-27-2008, 09:59 AM
This is the first time in my life I have ever registered to vote and am actually looking forward to voting. I will be voting for Obama of course.

because he's black? because he's democrat? because he's not republican?

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:01 AM
because he's black? because he's democrat? because he's not republican?

well i don't know that I really belong to either side, but I don't agree with anything McCain stands for therefore I will be voting for Obama, it has nothing to do with the color of his skin, I just like what he has to say. I think we need someone younger, fresher and more ready to make some change instead of just sticking to the status quo. But I have never really followed along with this stuff because none of the candidates ever impressed me in the past.

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:02 AM
what, are you stupid or something?

What is holding you back from voting for Oboma?

JustSteve
08-27-2008, 10:05 AM
McCain '08

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:07 AM
McCain '08

You and everyone else in the V.I.P. area...

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:09 AM
I have a feeling if McCain ends up winning it then he won't make it through the 4 years, he looks like he is being followed around by the grim reaper even now. Imagine after the stress of being prez.

JustSteve
08-27-2008, 10:10 AM
You and everyone else in the V.I.P. area...

backstage...get it right. :thu

zenidogx
08-27-2008, 10:11 AM
nader. liberal alternative. not happy with Dems and McCain has no chance in California.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 10:13 AM
I have a feeling if McCain ends up winning it then he won't make it through the 4 years, he looks like he is being followed around by the grim reaper even now. Imagine after the stress of being prez.


No, no, no. You haven't noticed but when Republicans win they go on vacation.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 10:14 AM
nader. liberal alternative. not happy with Dems and McCain has no chance in California.


Ouch you are going to cost us the election!

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:15 AM
No, no, no. You haven't noticed but when Republicans win they go on vacation.

yeah but if he goes on vacation he will end up with another case of skin cancer, unless he vacations in alaska in the winter.

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:15 AM
What is holding you back from voting for Oboma?

his inexperience and his party affiliation.

and as for mccain: his lengthy experience and his party affiliation.

i like some of what obama says, but then some things just freaking kill me. i need to not worry about others because they havent changed in decades, so i dont think he'll be able to get it done. and thats one of the things discouraging me. all this talk about change....every fucking election!!!!

mccain, i havent even heard much from him because the media has its mouth full of obama cock. and ive also been trying to stay away from news lately. its just the same shit every freaking day.

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:17 AM
Ouch you are going to cost us the election!


he's actually been on my mind a lot. more people should vote 3rd party and quit following the fucking pack. thats the biggest thing that would keep me from voting if i dont. just getting the same two fucking options. things arent black and white.

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:19 AM
Obooma FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

menikmati
08-27-2008, 10:20 AM
exactly, anything any of them say is just bullshit....I guarantee you 4 years from now, you'll be hearing the exact same shit about "change". Nothing is changing, sorry.

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 10:20 AM
things arent black and white.

hahaha

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:22 AM
he's actually been on my mind a lot. more people should vote 3rd party and quit following the fucking pack. thats the biggest thing that would keep me from voting if i dont. just getting the same two fucking options. things arent black and white.


Only confused democrates are going to vote 3rd party and fuck it up for us all.

menikmati
08-27-2008, 10:23 AM
fuck the two party system

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:23 AM
exactly, anything any of them say is just bullshit....I guarantee you 4 years from now, you'll be hearing the exact same shit about "change". Nothing is changing, sorry.

I know, but the chances of obama changing things is alot greater then mccain. mccain is just a mini bush in my opinion. he just does not seem very in touch with what the country wants.

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:24 AM
only stupid people blindly vote along party lines. but thats just my opinion.

menikmati
08-27-2008, 10:24 AM
He's a mini bush for now, because he wants all the same votes Bush got back in 2004.....it's all bullshit, anything any of them say is strictly for votes, and for nothing else. It's stupid.

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:25 AM
The problem is that people think they are what they aren't.

SFChrissy
08-27-2008, 10:33 AM
I feel your sentiments Marook...but for me I'm going obama based on principal alone...a man of of color and of his stature worked god damn hard to get where he is today...I can only imagine the good ol boy bullshit he has had to endure...

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 10:39 AM
What you say is bullshit, Erik. I know Bush brought in a shitload of change. Horrible change, but change.

wmgaretjax
08-27-2008, 10:39 AM
Luigi Russolo

menikmati
08-27-2008, 10:42 AM
What you say is bullshit, Erik. I know Bush brought in a shitload of change. Horrible change, but change.

Come back in 4 years when you hearing all this stuff all over again.

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:42 AM
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 10:45 AM
Anyone remember how much change this guy was going to bring
http://roxanne.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/11/05/ron_paul_ross_perot.jpg

http://www.deplicque.net/articles/article_img/BarackObama_time_mag.jpg

He won't get elected it sucks but it won't happen

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:47 AM
http://cleanishappy.com/

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 10:48 AM
Come back in 4 years when you hearing all this stuff all over again.
Still waiting on universal health care in any case. They aren't really saying all the same things this time. Last time there was a real race with 2 new contenders (in '00) the big thing is "what are we gonna do with the surplus?" bwahahahaha

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:48 AM
I feel your sentiments Marook...but for me I'm going obama based on principal alone...a man of of color and of his stature worked god damn hard to get where he is today...I can only imagine the good ol boy bullshit he has had to endure...

with affirmative action running wild, how do we "really" know that?

his race wasnt playing any role in my thoughts about him until he said mccain was gonna try to scare you and say he doesnt look like the rest of them. thats a fucking disgrace.


edit: the affirmative action part of this post is a joke. didnt think i had to state that.

Newro7ic
08-27-2008, 10:48 AM
is Time like the Madden jinx for Presidential nominees? :)

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:49 AM
Still waiting on universal health care in any case. They aren't really saying all the same things this time. Last time there was a real race with 2 new contenders (in '00) the big thing is "what are we gonna do with the surplus?" bwahahahaha

yes, because government works so well now, lets give them control of our health care as well. and uh, what do you call medicade/care?

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:49 AM
I hate that we still live in a country where the color of a mans skin can strike up so much contraversy. it is fucking 2008 for fucks sake.

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 10:51 AM
I hate that we still live in a country where the color of a mans skin can strike up so much contraversy. it is fucking 2008 for fucks sake.

You don't like 'merica then you can get out

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:52 AM
the problem is I do like it, I just didn't think we were still in this place. At what point do people realize we are all the same, black, white, green or purple?

Newro7ic
08-27-2008, 10:53 AM
with affirmative action running wild, how do we "really" know that?



Affirmative action?


Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition. In his second year he was elected president of the Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors. Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles. He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990.

Just like above, I don't see how any of his accomplishments have anything to do with Affirmative Action. I personally don't care if you like him or not, but you have to give credit where credit is due. He busted his ass to get where he is. Whether or not that trend will continue remains to be seen, but you can't say he hasn't accomplished anything against great odds.

That is all. Carry on.

jigsaw
08-27-2008, 10:53 AM
All I want is some easy mac

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 10:54 AM
the problem is I do like it, I just didn't think we were still in this place. At what point do people realize we are all the same, black, white, green or purple?

It was sarcasm meant to sound like someone who looks like this

http://www.ahoffman.com/humor/images/Redneck.jpg

locachica73
08-27-2008, 10:55 AM
It was sarcasm meant to sound like someone who looks like this

http://www.ahoffman.com/humor/images/Redneck.jpg

I use to live next door to that guy I think.

marooko
08-27-2008, 10:56 AM
Affirmative action?



Just like above, I don't see how any of his accomplishments have anything to do with Affirmative Action. I personally don't care if you like him or not, but you have to give credit where credit is due. He busted his ass to get where he is. Whether or not that trend will continue remains to be seen, but you can't say he hasn't accomplished anything against great odds.

That is all. Carry on.

i was gonna say it was a joke, but i didnt think i had to. guess i should have.

Newro7ic
08-27-2008, 11:00 AM
i was gonna say it was a joke, but i didnt think i had to. guess i should have.

Sorry. All of your anti-comments led me in a different direction. No harm, no foul.

PlayaDelWes
08-27-2008, 11:00 AM
I'm not even sure if I wanna vote this election. I'm extremely disappointed with politicians in general and am tired of right and left. Discuss?....

Donít want to vote either at this point. The more I learn and the more I research about both candidates, the more disgusted I get.

Iím really trying to like Obama, but the more I understand about his core policies, the more I realize that he is only promoting mediocrity in America. We certainly need someone charismatic to lead the country, and Obama is certainly charismatic, but only in a way that gets people to rally behind rallying.

Instead of creating demand for jobs, Obamaís only incentivizing those without them to stay unemployed. He is reforming Bankrupcy laws, allowing people to Ďget a fresh startí soonerÖbasically telling America itís OK to overspend and then bail on your debts. His housing policy does nothing to reward those who were responsible with their mortgages yet forgives speculators who ditched their properties once they became underwater, leaving the losses for the banks and the banks for the fed govt to bail out. Heís cutting taxesÖto those with NO incomesÖWTF is that about? STRIVE FOR MEDIOCRITY AMERICA!!!

As for McCain, I find it extremely hard to rally around someone of his age. Also, I get a feeling that the rest of the world and Obama supporters think that heís just another GW.

The biggest issue I care about is the Economy. Somehow Americans have become lackadaisical and have no motivation to make a difference. Iím not sure McCain can motivate people to get out of their seats and Iím not sure Obamaís charisma wonít motivate people to do the wrong things for the economy. FDR motivated people to get out of the great depression by giving them reason to work hard. Kennedy asked what each American could do for their country. Both FDR and Kennedy had the policies to support a hard-working America. If somehow Obama could take his motivational skills and slightly tweaked his policies to reward hard work, itíd be a no-brainer to vote for him.

Next biggest issue is reliance on our own energy and making that energy greener. Obama is certainly staking claim on this issue more than McCain, but Iím not sure how their plans are materially different. They both seem to be half-stepping. Until itís actually cheaper for consumers to make Ďgreení decisions, little progress can be made. Incentives need to be greater. Personally, I would love to get solar panels for my house, but itís too freaken expensiveÖeven with the 30% rebate that Schwarzenegger is giving to homeowners. The feds should step up and give another 30% rebate, and Iíll install solar in a heartbeat. So people donít drive, why not put up toll booths everywhere or put a super-tax on gas. I would not mind a $5.00 TAX on gas that would go directly towards investing in greener energy. Some say gas tax is a poor tax. If thatís the case, then tax the higher octane fuels that are only needed in luxury cars. Instead, the candidates are trying to find ways to make gas (and utilities, including water) cheaper for Americans. Thatís going to have the opposite affect and make it harder to create greener alternatives.

It has become too expense to innovate. There are plenty of millionaires and entrepreneurs sitting on the sidelines because itís become a pain to start new companies. Taxes, lawsuits, minimum wages, limits on executive comp, and labor laws are causing less innovation, less jobs, and less creativity in the marketplace. Instead of taking risk and starting new businesses, exes are Ďretiringí at 45 with boatloads of money and traveling the world. McCain will not go though the red tape to reverse legislation and stop this trend, and Obama will only accelerate this trend, creating fewer jobs in America and promoting less innovation.

I would like to vote, but I have no clear case for either candidate. All I can ask is that they both realize what giant opportunities they have at this point and do something about it, not in the best interest of traditional party-lines, but in the best interest of motivating Americans.

marooko
08-27-2008, 11:05 AM
Sorry. All of your anti-comments led me in a different direction. No harm, no foul.

agreed, no harm, no foul. im not really anti, or pro. i havent ruled him out as one to get my vote. mccain is just about ruled out though.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 11:07 AM
I'm hoping that the candidates are just being careful about what they say now, and the big, positive plans they forgot to mention will come to fruition after one of them gets voted into office.

I heard someone with union ties suggesting the new president start a "New Deal" again to get people jobs rebuilding our nation's infrastructure which is a hell of a good idea since our bridges and roads and whatnot are falling into disrepair. Not sure where the money would come from though. :/

And I'm also hoping the new president will jump on the alternative, green energy idea full-force and gets things going in an innovative way.

SFChrissy
08-27-2008, 11:14 AM
with affirmative action running wild, how do we "really" know that?

his race wasnt playing any role in my thoughts about him until he said mccain was gonna try to scare you and say he doesnt look like the rest of them. thats a fucking disgrace.


edit: the affirmative action part of this post is a joke. didnt think i had to state that.Affirmative action my ass...My uncle albert was born of two alcoholic parents who grew up in the stocktan ghettos and was cared for by my mother until she was made award of the state. He got good grades in school got a full scholarship thru collage, captain of his debate team and was a guest of the white house during his years in college...he has a masters in I don't know what and provided risk management services for the bay area's insurance company, he couldn't advance in his position because of his color which is also the same reason why he did not advance from assistant city manager of eukiah to city manager. He is now a president of AARP and has been to numerous events at the white house and golf's with bush sr from time to time...Affirmative Action doesn't have anything to do with it...it's all a good 'ol boys club...

faxman75
08-27-2008, 11:14 AM
things arent black and white.

Obama is.

Anyway, find me a 3rd party to get behind. I don't quite see the point though. If it's a 3 or 4 party system it doesn't get better. We need to get rid of "parties" all together.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 11:18 AM
Do you guys think when Obama wins and waits a few months to start withdrawing troops that Zach will order all his latino and black friends to burn down senate office buildings?

marooko
08-27-2008, 11:24 AM
i agree with getting rid of parties all together, but its not gonna happen over night. neither is a third party, or fourth. its especially not gonna happen when people arent voting for them. actions speak louder than words.

SFChrissy
08-27-2008, 11:28 AM
Labels Suck!!!

faxman75
08-27-2008, 11:40 AM
Especially Jordache

Trudeau
08-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Anybody who looks at the colour of Obama's skin and thinks his rhetoric of "change" is empty is an absolute moron who does not understand the incredible magnitude of the change he represents.

I'm not an American, but I think I speak for 80% of Canadians and Europeans when I say...if you don't elect Obama in November, you'll only give all of us even more reason to hate your country.

chairmenmeow47
08-27-2008, 11:50 AM
same turd sandwich, same giant douche, different year.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 11:50 AM
Ehh that was kind of a douchey statement. I don't really think by change he means vote for me because i'm black and that's amazing! Is his change really that different than what Hillary or Edwards were offering? I think not.

I say all this as a canadian loving democrat.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 11:51 AM
same turd sandwich, same giant douche, different year.

*lol* that episode was on the other night. Awesome.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 11:59 AM
Obama is.

Anyway, find me a 3rd party to get behind. I don't quite see the point though. If it's a 3 or 4 party system it doesn't get better. We need to get rid of "parties" all together.

so I'm to understand that you are against parties

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 12:02 PM
FOR SHAME, faxman, FOR SHAME.

marooko
08-27-2008, 12:03 PM
Anybody who looks at the colour of Obama's skin and thinks his rhetoric of "change" is empty is an absolute moron who does not understand the incredible magnitude of the change he represents.

I'm not an American, but I think I speak for 80% of Canadians and Europeans when I say...if you don't elect Obama in November, you'll only give all of us even more reason to hate your country.

so we should vote for him cause he's black??

worry about your own elections.

JustSteve
08-27-2008, 12:10 PM
if you don't elect Obama in November, you'll only give all of us even more reason to hate your country.

this is america, do you really think we give a fuck what other countries think of us? especially canada...

faxman75
08-27-2008, 12:16 PM
FOR SHAME, faxman, FOR SHAME.

[gaaasp] what I do?

arbouler
08-27-2008, 12:34 PM
same turd sandwich, same giant douche, different year.

i dunno man, the more i look at it, i think it's better to get a new giant douche than eating four more years of turd sandwich...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3106/2766259070_5a2f3ed77b_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3003/2765413733_cc4b109f43_o.jpg




The biggest issue I care about is the Economy. Somehow Americans have become lackadaisical and have no motivation to make a difference. Iím not sure McCain can motivate people to get out of their seats and Iím not sure Obamaís charisma wonít motivate people to do the wrong things for the economy. FDR motivated people to get out of the great depression by giving them reason to work hard. Kennedy asked what each American could do for their country. Both FDR and Kennedy had the policies to support a hard-working America. If somehow Obama could take his motivational skills and slightly tweaked his policies to reward hard work, itíd be a no-brainer to vote for him.

i dont know how else you want him to tell people to work harder. if americans are smart enough, they dont need any more motivation.

i personally dont want obama to explicitly tell white working class people on tv that they need to work harder. that just opens a floodgate for fox to twist it and say that this "affirmative action" product is lecturing white working class folks who are against affirmative action. he, michelle and everyone else has been showing how motivated he was to get to where he is.

i've never had to eat using food stamps, i never got to be a popular harvard law student, never really was all that poor, but man, i have to say i really do admire obama. i think he's the product of a real american dream. if people dont see it, or refuse to see it, then it's not his fault.

if americans keep complaining that they dont know much about obama or mccain, then hell, they should actually find it rather than keep getting spoonfed by the tv news station. hell, that kind of attitude just shows how lazy and irresponsible these people are.

vinylmartyr
08-27-2008, 12:40 PM
we can vote for anyone we want right?

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 12:51 PM
You can write in someone's name.

marooko
08-27-2008, 12:59 PM
we can vote for anyone we want right?

no, only borama. ask the press, they'll tell ya.

PassiveTheory
08-27-2008, 01:13 PM
I think it's funny when people criticize others for picking a political candidate for reasons that aren't "relevant" or "important" or "smart enough"; like the historical ramifications of having an African-American as the head of state for the first time in our country's history, or electing a man who served as a POW for years during Vietnam, or because they feel like a man with skin cancer can lead the country, or because they like Obama's hook shot, etc.

I find it funny because, in all reality, they're really not all that different. Yeah, scoff at that if you want, but all you have to do is follow the money trail and it will show that the American people have the choice of two men who have either already betrayed the core stances they once held and/or WILL betray the very talking points they have used to convince voters while on the campaign trail because of conflicting interests with lobbyists.

Both men supported the Freddie Mac-Fannie Mae rescue (McCain's chief of staff is a former lobbyist for Fannie Mae and Obama hired a former Fannie Mae chairman to serve as his consultant on HOUSING ISSUES), and, essentially, both men are bought by lobbyists. With McCain bowing to the prevailing paycheks of the Carlyle Group, the Blackstone Group, telecom giants like AT&T and Verizon, and Obama submitting his will to Goldman Sachs, hedge-fund executives (out-earning McCain in this department), Lehman Brothers (as well as going mum on anti-wiretapping issues the minute that AT&T was announced as the DNC sponsor) and BOTH men receiving absurd contributions from JP Morgan Chase (740,000$ and 400,000$, respectively), it's fucking obvious that the only change is no change at all.

The only change that's coming to the American people... is none at all.

So, yeah, I'll vote the black guy into office, for these reasons:

a. Unless he's assassinated, he won't die in office like McCain is bound to.
b. Kinda cool to be involved in electing the first black guy into office.
c. Chances of McCain getting us in a war with Iran: pretty high. Chances Obama will do the same: not as high, but if it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised.
d. Obama's got a pretty good layup. I saw so on ESPN.

I expect most of you to get all crotchety and "YOU CANT VOTE FOR A GUY ON MERITS LIKE THAT! YOU HAVE TO STAND BY THEIR POSITIONS!"

Look, their positions are meaningless while lobbyists and corporations continue to run our country for us. The only thing that can be acted upon is corporate greed, and now that they have seen that going green can actually be marketable and bring in cash, it's probably the only loophole that politicians have in terms of making any worthwhile changes.

Now ask me who would better use that loophole? The answer is Obama. It's just common sense.

...But if he didn't do shit, I wouldn't be surprised.

At least I'd have voted.

arbouler
08-27-2008, 01:14 PM
idunno if this is fake or not but fox news can come up with anything unimaginable

http://yarp2.motivatedphotos.com/autocdn/motivatedphotos/http://i37.tinypic.com/66lnja.jpg

http://yarp.motivatedphotos.com/uploads/2008/8/26/633553067268337243-ConspiracyTheoriesYoucantrustFoxNewstodeliverevery timeDemotivator-t2.jpg (http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=2514)

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 01:16 PM
Holy shit.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 01:17 PM
no, only borama. ask the press, they'll tell ya.

The press keeps telling me McCain is winning. I don't understand.

Wheres the beef?
08-27-2008, 01:17 PM
backstage...get it right. :thu

Hey man no need to brag about it.

hawkingvsreeve
08-27-2008, 01:30 PM
While most Americans will rally around the usual election issues (health care, economy, abortion, gay rights, etc.) this November really boils down to one thing for me, and that is that a vote for McCain is a vote to send another 1000 kids younger than most of us to die in the desert. That's it. That's the bottom line. I don't agree with McCain policy wise either and think he is nowhere near the candidate he was back in 2000, but this go around is so incredibly important that I hope those of you who are on the fence about voting go and do so. If you don't, you don't get to complain.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 01:32 PM
The press keeps telling me McCain is winning. I don't understand.

Rolling Stone and Jon Stewart told me to vote for Obama

faxman75
08-27-2008, 01:35 PM
but Fox news and all the talk radio show hosts have told me McCain is the guy!!

humanoid
08-27-2008, 01:38 PM
While most Americans will rally around the usual election issues (health care, economy, abortion, gay rights, etc.) this November really boils down to one thing for me, and that is that a vote for McCain is a vote to send another 1000 kids younger than most of us to die in the desert. That's it. That's the bottom line. I don't agree with McCain policy wise either and think he is nowhere near the candidate he was back in 2000, but this go around is so incredibly important that I hope those of you who are on the fence about voting go and do so. If you don't, you don't get to complain.

I disagree with the notion that you have no right to complain if you don't vote. I will be voting, but I think it's perfectly reasonable to abstain from voting if you think the entire process is corrupt and illegitimate. I've been voting since I was 18, but there have been times that I've been turned off by lies, propaganda and half-assed candidates.

If someone disagrees with the candidates on most issues and thinks that neither one will be a worthy president, then they should still vote for one of them just so they can have the right to complain? That doesn't make sense to me

marooko
08-27-2008, 01:42 PM
If someone disagrees with the candidates on most issues and thinks that neither one will be a worthy president, then they should still vote for one of them just so they can have the right to complain? That doesn't make sense to me

this is pretty much where i stand. i completely agree.

my first election i was told that we're pretty much voting for the lesser of two evils. i almost didnt vote.

ill vote, i just have to get off my lazy ass and decide who is gonna get my vote.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 01:43 PM
but Fox news and all the talk radio show hosts have told me McCain is the guy!!


I guess that's why I avoid those particular media outlets...each side does a commendable job of convincing their followers of a particular slant against them in the media. With the right evidence and statistics, skewed in the proper direction, you can definitely show that there is a tremendous liberal bias in the media...but if you do it right, you can prove that the media is conservative leaning. The truth is, there are plenty of both on each side, and they all push their specific agenda while pretending to be underdogs crushed by the overwhelming propaganda machines of the opposition

marooko
08-27-2008, 01:45 PM
humanoid, i like you.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 01:48 PM
thanks marooko!

PlayaDelWes
08-27-2008, 02:03 PM
I guess that's why I avoid those particular media outlets...

With the exception of Storm Watch and weather ladies, media outfits are BS. F#(*& Rolling Stone, Fox News, CNN, and John Stewart.

www.barackobama.com, www.johnmccain.com, and http://www.coachella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22019 are all you need to make an informed decision.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 02:05 PM
/\ weather ladies are my favorite part of it as well

arbouler
08-27-2008, 02:19 PM
i always wonder what my thought process is like if i were a mccain supporter.

im not saying that the obama camp doesnt twist the facts and all (both sides did) but i thought that the mccain/ republican camp are really good at what they do. and they actually work! convinced me for a second with some of their attacks.

example:

mccain camp says that obama will increase tax on their ads. while this is true, this only applies to the top 1% (or about that) percentile of americans. what the mccain ads also dont mention is that under obama's plan, 95% of american families get much more tax relief than mccain's plan.

53% americans think obama will raise their taxes >> (http://www.alternet.org/election08/96476/half_of_americans_believe_gop_spin_on_obama%27s_ta x_plan_/)

example:
mccain camp's new ad about the iran threat will come out really soon. if you watch it, it really twists obama's words and takes it out of context. hell, at first i thought obama really did say those words in context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhH2q6h7_Ow

what obama actually said was this:


"strong countries and strong Presidents talk to their adversaries. That's what Kennedy did with Khrushchev. That's what Reagan did with Gorbachev. That's what Nixon did with Mao. I mean think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela -- these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying, 'We're going to wipe you off the planet.'"[/B]-jake tapper >> (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/from-the-fact-c.html)

also obama came up with this press release (link) (http://www.jedreport.com/2008/08/obama-counterattack-on-mccains.html), charging the mccain camp to be involved with iranian deals. i dunno if this is true, then again i doubt the media will go question mccain because they are not as sensational as painting obama as the bad guy in that ad

example:

romney said that mccain earned his homes while obama didnt because he bought his house with a special deal from a convicted felon - link (http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/08/romney_mccain_e_1.html)

this came out from factcheck.org a while ago >> (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/rezko_reality.html)


As for that claim about Rezko helping Obama buy his house, well, we've dealt with that one before. The gist of the story: In 2005, Barack and Michelle Obama found a house that they wanted to purchase. The property had been divided into two parcels, one containing a house and the other undeveloped land. The owner had listed the properties separately. After considerable haggling, the seller accepted the Obamas' third bid of $1.65 million for the parcel containing the house. Tony Rezko's wife, Rita, purchased the adjoining lot for $625,000.

When the Obamas wanted to increase the size of their yard, they approached the Rezkos about purchasing a strip of the adjacent parcel. Obama told the Sun-Times that a 10-foot strip of the 60-foot lot appraised for $40,000. The Obamas nevertheless paid Rita $104,500 (or 1/6 of the total purchase price of her lot) for the strip. In 2007, Rita sold the remaining lot for $575,000 (or roughly a $54,500 profit on the overall property).

McCain's ad, however, is worded in a way that could leave a false impression. It says Rezko "helped him buy his million-dollar mansion" by "purchasing part of the property he couldn't afford." That's true, but only because the seller wanted to sell the two parcels as a unit and the Obamas couldn't afford both. Rezko did not make a gift of any property to the Obamas. Furthermore, the fact that his wife sold her lot for more than she paid for it contradicts any suggestion that the Rezkos overpaid for their part of the deal as a way of getting the seller to lower the price to the Obamas for their part.


now, what i really dont understand about american politics is how blatant smears, lies, dishonest words get played out legally. this method of thinking is just out of my league, it's unbelievable. although, at times i do wish i were as shrewed ;)

wmgaretjax
08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
If you don't, you don't get to complain.

I agree with humanoid, this is a ridiculous notion.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 02:31 PM
So McCain's camp is good at spreading lies. Lovely.

hawkingvsreeve
08-27-2008, 03:01 PM
You can vote for anybody you wish, so if you don't take part in the election and don't like the results down the line, don't come bitching and complaining. I get tired of hearing people spout off rhetoric and opinions and having some sense of superiority because they feel they know more then you about the politicians or process only to find out they didn't even participate. If it is the process you disagree with, then do something to try and change it. Everybody likes to voice an opinion on what should happen or how things should be but they do nothing about it.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 03:04 PM
Vote for Nader, vote for someone. Write someone in, have your vote thrown out. SOMETHING.

PotVsKtl
08-27-2008, 03:35 PM
with affirmative action running wild, how do we "really" know that?

Go fuck yourself you simpering piece of shit.

Blinken
08-27-2008, 03:36 PM
You don't like the two main canidates fine don't vote for them. Vote for a third party then, I am sure you can find one that shares some of your same views. At least you are then using your vote to try and end the two party system instead of bitching about it and doing nothing to better the system.

marooko
08-27-2008, 03:37 PM
Go fuck yourself you simpering piece of shit.

how bout i eat your pussy instead?

PlayaDelWes
08-27-2008, 03:39 PM
As I said before, I’m really trying to like Obama. I like the idea of a leader with his Charisma. Unfortunately, beyond the hype, I can’t find anyone who supports him because of his underlying policies. Of the intelligent people on this message board, here are the top 15 (serious) reasons why they support Obama.

1. McCain scares the shit out of me
2. I don't agree with anything McCain stands for therefore I will be voting for Obama
3. I just like what he has to say. I think we need someone younger, fresher and more ready to make some change instead of just sticking to the status quo
4. When Republicans win they go on vacation
5. I like some of what obama says
6. The chances of obama changing things is alot greater then mccain
7. mccain is just a mini bush in my opinion. he just does not seem very in touch with what the country wants.
8. I'm going obama based on principal alone...a man of of color and of his stature worked god damn hard to get where he is today
9. I speak for 80% of Canadians and Europeans when I say...if you don't elect Obama in November, you'll only give all of us even more reason to hate your country
10. Unless he's assassinated, he won't die in office like McCain is bound to
11. Kinda cool to be involved in electing the first black guy into office
12. Chances of McCain getting us in a war with Iran: pretty high. Chances Obama will do the same: not as high, but if it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised.
13. A vote for McCain is a vote to send another 1000 kids younger than most of us to die in the desert
14. I don't agree with McCain policy wise
15.Mccain twists the facts. Obama does too, but Mccain does it better.

Beyond his perceived stance on Iraq, there is a general lack of substance to any argument supporting Obama.

PotVsKtl
08-27-2008, 03:40 PM
how bout i eat your pussy instead?


After the last 8 years, if you are even considering voting for McCain, you should be shot in the fucking head in the public square. But then, you're a piece of shit that should have been choked inside the womb and shat out like a mealy yam.

higgybaby23
08-27-2008, 03:41 PM
If you would like an alternative to mainstream media manipulation, check out http://www.democracynow.org/

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 03:42 PM
I wanted Edwards. :thu

PotVsKtl
08-27-2008, 03:43 PM
Nobody gives two rancid cocks what your inbred child beating ass wants Amy.

marooko
08-27-2008, 03:45 PM
who should we vote for pot? speak almighty internet god, speak.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 03:48 PM
All Pot does is belittle people. He hardly ever says anything of substance. Once he gave an insightful opinion in the movie thread and I was shocked. He actually said something that wasn't inflammatory! my god!

PotVsKtl
08-27-2008, 03:50 PM
I belittle you because you're an annoying fuck Amy. Keep your pointless observations to yourself.

Hurrrrrr I like dumplings!

Shut the fuck up bitch.

Blinken
08-27-2008, 03:56 PM
As I said before, Iím really trying to like Obama. I like the idea of a leader with his Charisma. Unfortunately, beyond the hype, I canít find anyone who supports him because of his underlying policies. Of the intelligent people on this message board, here are the top 15 (serious) reasons why they support Obama.

1. McCain scares the shit out of me
2. I don't agree with anything McCain stands for therefore I will be voting for Obama
3. I just like what he has to say. I think we need someone younger, fresher and more ready to make some change instead of just sticking to the status quo
4. When Republicans win they go on vacation
5. I like some of what obama says
6. The chances of obama changing things is alot greater then mccain
7. mccain is just a mini bush in my opinion. he just does not seem very in touch with what the country wants.
8. I'm going obama based on principal alone...a man of of color and of his stature worked god damn hard to get where he is today
9. I speak for 80% of Canadians and Europeans when I say...if you don't elect Obama in November, you'll only give all of us even more reason to hate your country
10. Unless he's assassinated, he won't die in office like McCain is bound to
11. Kinda cool to be involved in electing the first black guy into office
12. Chances of McCain getting us in a war with Iran: pretty high. Chances Obama will do the same: not as high, but if it were to happen, I wouldn't be surprised.
13. A vote for McCain is a vote to send another 1000 kids younger than most of us to die in the desert
14. I don't agree with McCain policy wise
15.Mccain twists the facts. Obama does too, but Mccain does it better.

Beyond his perceived stance on Iraq, there is a general lack of substance to any argument supporting Obama.

I am a fan of his Healthcare policy, although not perfect it is a step in the right direction. He believes that if the public is given an option to buy cheap healthcare, without all the loopholes insurance companies use, like pre-existing condition, then people will buy healthcare. What rational citizen would say "No, I don't want to purchase some cheap healthcare, I would rather risk it." Ultimately he wanted a system like Canada but he knew that it is not possible in one step so by gradually moving in that direction he can change other peoples minds about socialized healthcare. Where as Hillary wanted to make the same changes to the system and make it mandatory that everyone, or their employers, buy healthcare or else you would be fined. They both have the same goal and different ways to get there, personally I like Barracks better.

I do have a problem with his stance on Nuclear power, but he says he is open to more research on the subject. Which is good and something i really like about Obama. While Bush and McCain are very much Anti-Intelectual, not saying stupid but they don't strive to learn and don't think it is necesary. But that thought process has gotten us into these problems. I want a President who will study the situation, listen to the experts, and form a policy based on research and hard work. Not by looking into another leader's soul, or talking to God and doing what he says.

Obama's tax plan is also something I like, people earning less than 150k get a tax cut, 150k - 250k stay the same, and over 250k gets a small increase. While McCain wants to continue the Bush tax cuts, and get us into even worse shape than before.

I like Obama for his policies, but the other factors you mentioned don't hurt either.

PlayaDelWes
08-27-2008, 04:37 PM
Obama's tax plan is also something I like, people earning less than 150k get a tax cut, 150k - 250k stay the same, and over 250k gets a small increase. While McCain wants to continue the Bush tax cuts, and get us into even worse shape than before.


I have a huge problem with a tax plan as simple as Obama's. While I make more money living in CA, expenses are higher here too. If he were to raise or lower taxes, I'd suggest he adjust that plan based on region.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26408567

I have no problem with higher taxes, I just wish people could tax things that incent good behavior. It's becoming less and less attractive to work hard and earn a higher salary.

I have no inherent family wealth. I have worked hard my entire life, I have created jobs for dozens of people, I give back to the economy, charity, federal, and local governments. I want to be rewarded for my achievements. As it stands today, the average family in the US pays $7,000 in federal taxes, and my family pays ten times that amount (in Federal Taxes Alone)Öand we got no economic stimulus check.

What type of behavior is Obama trying to inflict on good, hard-working people like myself? What signal is he trying to make? Iíll definitely spend less. Probably hire less people. Likely, Iíll give less to charity.

There are other ways to raise taxes and incent good behavior. Iím open to your suggestions Mr. Obama.

gaypalmsprings
08-27-2008, 04:39 PM
If you don't vote for Obama you are racist.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 04:41 PM
Incent? Is that a word?

edit: by god, it is. Dictionary.com says it means "incentivize" which sounds better to me.

marooko
08-27-2008, 04:48 PM
It's becoming less and less attractive to work hard and earn a higher salary.

this is so fucking true its upsetting. i wonder sometimes how long i can keep it up without losing my fucking mind. not even earn a higher salary, just to fucking work. all this talk of socializing everything, might as well vote for it and sit on my ass.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 04:50 PM
There are some people who are so against paying taxes that they work just enough to live below the poverty line. You can always do that.... The rich need to support the poor and pay the higher tax burden IMO.

marooko
08-27-2008, 04:59 PM
There are some people who are so against paying taxes that they work just enough to live below the poverty line. You can always do that.... The rich need to support the poor and pay the higher tax burden IMO.

fuck that shit. how the fuck you gonna say something so stupid right after the first fucking sentence? so if i make a lot of fucking money i should pay for the people who purposely stay below the poverty line. fuck you and your stupid ass ideas. and fuck them!!!!!

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 05:02 PM
Those people that purposely stay below the poverty line are not really "the poor." I didn't mean for it to be taken that way.

I meant that the most vulnerable people in our society--the children born to drug addicts and born in poverty without health insurance, the mentally ill, the poor living in ignorance because no one showed them a better way, senior citizens living on a fixed income with no way to ADD to that income--we need to take care of them.

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 05:04 PM
The rich need to support the poor and pay the higher tax burden IMO.

Cause it's my fault you didn't go and get yours. Opportunity is out there people you just need to work for it fucking lazy asses

sonofhal
08-27-2008, 05:05 PM
We are probably going tory at the next election, so i expect rioting, looting, strikes, record unemployment and interest rates that cripple all home owners - just like last time the fuckers were in power. Apparently the GLOBAL downturn in the economy is the single handed fault of our labour government. I didn't realise we were that significant.

I love the people who don't care what the rest of the world thinks - I wonder if they are all Republicans, by any chance? Hmmmmm.

marooko
08-27-2008, 05:25 PM
Cause it's my fault you didn't go and get yours. Opportunity is out there people you just need to work for it fucking lazy asses

seriously. 90% of my childhood friends had the same if not better chances that i had. fuck them for not going to school and working. let them choke on garbage i throw out.

i have a hard enough time taking care of my own shit, i dont need to be pulling someone else along who didint feel like doing anything.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 05:26 PM
You guys are heartless.

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 05:32 PM
No why the fuck do we owe it to anyone. Children in impoverished areas and other circumstances ok I'm willing to help but besides that Fuck Off. They also do have organizations to help these people (which I have donated to on occasion), but it should not be mandatory to help lazy assholes.

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 05:33 PM
So throw the senior citizens, the handicapped, and mentally ill to the wolves? What about people who never had opportunities to better themselves grew up poor to drug-addicted mothers, don't know much but want to get out of poverity? Throw them away too?

edit: I'm not saying we should perpetuate a society in which people can just be lazy and get a welfare check--I think people who can work should work

PlayaDelWes
08-27-2008, 05:34 PM
...interest rates that cripple all home owners - just like last time the fuckers were in power...

Who last increased interest rates that crippled homeowners? Jimmy Carter, right before the recession of the early 80s or Bill Clinton right before the recession that started 8 years ago?

Homeowners need to learn how to deal with 5-10% rates. People are going to be shaken up by whoever raises rates; but we have to do it. Otherwise inflation will remain through the roof, and while America is cheap, we'll be bought out by the rest of the world.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/data/FEDFUNDS_Max_630_378.png

stinkbutt
08-27-2008, 05:35 PM
What about people who never had opportunities to better themselves grew up poor to drug-addicted mothers, don't know much but want to get out of poverity? Throw them away too?

I fit this profile it's called Perseverance

marooko
08-27-2008, 05:35 PM
You guys are heartless.


but it should not be mandatory to help lazy assholes.

this is how i feel. i refuse to spend my time and resources on people who choose not to do anything. not people who are going through a rough patch, not people that cannot help themselves, but people who refuse or choose not to. fuck them. let them eat shit for all i fucking care. there is a big difference there, and if you dont see it, i dont know what to tell ya.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
08-27-2008, 05:42 PM
I haven't read the thread but I am voting for Obama. Especially after the Biden pick.

canexplain
08-27-2008, 05:54 PM
I haven't read the thread but I am voting for Obama. Especially after the Biden pick.

so dude, guess you had to stay at work like you said .. I didn't catch up with Justin, but we both got into the show .... see you at Monolith Fest eh for sure .... x**** and Dem all the way, guess we should think about every person and every issue, but this year, I am just going with any Dem on the ballot and every admendment I know things about and think about the vote for life, dont vote for that one about when does life start here in Co, basically its , if you stare at a gal, life begins :) and in some ways it does, but not babies, anyway I digress , vote Dem ... x****

amyzzz
08-27-2008, 05:57 PM
dont vote for that one about when does life start here in Co, basically its , if you stare at a gal, life begins and in some ways it does, but not babies,
What proposition is this, Ron? I mean specifically.

humanoid
08-27-2008, 06:01 PM
I was trying to decipher that riddle

zenidogx
08-27-2008, 06:02 PM
I wanted Edwards. :thu

so did I!

idrive1life
08-27-2008, 06:39 PM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/rielle-hunter.jpg

so did^

faxman75
08-27-2008, 08:13 PM
Of the intelligent people on this message board, here are the top 15 (serious) reasons why they support Obama.


I don't think we all said the number one or the top five reasons we were voting for Obama, if that's your question then that's fine but I'm quite sure our answers would be more thought out as the ones you posted are us just shootin' the shit.

I'm voting for Obama because he's inspiring, he wants to pull our troops out of Iraq, he wants to use diplomacy and gain international support before deciding to use our military, he is pro choice, he doesn't just want to give away healthcare to everyone, he wants to take care of those who can't afford it.

I would start there.

faxman75
08-27-2008, 08:14 PM
Shawn Johnson will lead the DNC in the pledge of allegiance tomorrow.

boarderwoozel3
08-27-2008, 08:22 PM
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/idrive1life/rielle-hunter.jpg

so did^

LOLZ to the max!

You can say Edwards screwed himself on that one...

woogie846
08-27-2008, 09:16 PM
LOLZ to the max!

You can say Edwards screwed himself on that one...

Edwards screwed her.

frozen pilgrim
08-27-2008, 10:56 PM
Shawn Johnson will lead the DNC in the pledge of allegiance tomorrow.

srsly?

I'm sorry, but she's a freaking cutie. if I was 17 I would so hit that shit

jazzz
08-27-2008, 11:13 PM
You and everyone else in the V.I.P. area...

How do you figure?? When all the twat Celebrities that hang in the V.I.P. area are behind Obama??

Backwater
08-28-2008, 12:19 AM
srsly?

I'm sorry, but she's a freaking cutie. if I was 17 I would so hit that shit

Watch out man, you never know when Chris Hansen will be behind that door.

stinkbutt
08-28-2008, 12:34 AM
After the last 8 years, if you are even considering voting for McCain, you should be shot in the fucking head in the public square. But then, you're a piece of shit that should have been choked inside the womb and shat out like a mealy yam.

http://punchup.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/john_mccain.jpg


He ain't just another fighter! This guy is a wrecking machine! And he's hungry! Hell, you ain't been hungry since you won that belt

TheGunner'sDream
08-28-2008, 01:34 AM
Hopefully Obama wins. He seems more qualified to fix the mess Bush has left over.

Mr.Nipples
08-28-2008, 02:24 AM
baZG1L414y4&hl=en&fs=1

TomAz
08-28-2008, 10:13 AM
I saw this bumper sticker this morning:

http://images.cafepress.com/image/26468949_125x125.jpg

My initial reaction was to ram the car and beat the shit out of the driver.

Republicans seem to be getting more and more stupid by the year.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 10:15 AM
Incent? Is that a word?

edit: by god, it is. Dictionary.com says it means "incentivize" which sounds better to me.

less is more amy. less is more.

JustSteve
08-28-2008, 10:20 AM
if I was 17 I would so hit that shit

you would have to aim low, though...

TomAz
08-28-2008, 10:21 AM
this is how i feel. i refuse to spend my time and resources on people who choose not to do anything. not people who are going through a rough patch, not people that cannot help themselves, but people who refuse or choose not to. fuck them. let them eat shit for all i fucking care. there is a big difference there, and if you dont see it, i dont know what to tell ya.

https://zone.artizans.com/images/previews/DBRO289.pvw.jpg

marooko
08-28-2008, 10:25 AM
https://zone.artizans.com/images/previews/DBRO289.pvw.jpg

its not about money, lord knows i dont have a whole lot of it. its about not being a fucking bum and looking for hand outs all the time.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 10:26 AM
Hey! you lazy bum! why don't you get off your lazy ass and go inherit a company or something!

marooko
08-28-2008, 10:28 AM
no, go work. no inheritance here either, just work.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 10:38 AM
How do you figure?? When all the twat Celebrities that hang in the V.I.P. area are behind Obama??

I was kind of joking with the guy about how all rich people would be voting republican. Celebrities don't count because they tend to be more liberal anyways.



If you are pulling 100k a year and you think you are rich, you are a fool. The rich in this country are pulling millions. We cannot relate. I say tax those fuckin bastards!


And yeah, we are all climbing the same ladder but it is a lot easier to get to the top if you started in the middle.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 10:40 AM
no, go work. no inheritance here either, just work.

all working has done for you is made you bitter and selfish. It hasn't made you kind and generous.

canexplain
08-28-2008, 10:52 AM
What proposition is this, Ron? I mean specifically.

Colorado for Equal Rights is sponsoring a ballot initiative for Coloradoís 2008 election. This proposed constitutional amendment will define a person in Colorado as a human being from the moment of fertilization, the moment when life begins. This amendment will establish a cornerstone for protecting human life in our society... and we all know this is the right thing to do.


this means absolutly no abortions for any reason at all ... even if the mother will die if she gives birth, even if the baby is terrible deformed and it is a given they will die in minutes outside the womb, incest, rape, nothing counts more then if the fetis is fertilized,then the egg is a person and it is murder to do anything that might harm the growth ...x****

marooko
08-28-2008, 10:53 AM
all working has done for you is made you bitter and selfish. It hasn't made you kind and generous.

well give me a handout so i feel better.

im not bitter and selfish, i just dont have any desire to help anyone who isnt willing to help themselves.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 10:54 AM
so people in colorado will be traveling across the border to get abortions or perform them on themselves with wire hangers like they did back in the day. Dirty doctors will make money on scared young women who have no other choice. thats just fabulous.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 10:59 AM
nothing beats a swift kick to the stomach

canexplain
08-28-2008, 11:00 AM
this is their disclaimer, and i read and read it, and i am still not sure what it says .... and the extremists on the other side say you could argue that birth control things down to condoms, the pill, etc keep the fetis from being fertilized, therefore they should be outlawed ... yikes ...x****opps

Please Note: When the mother's life is seriously threatened by a pregnancy, of course it is morally justified to deliver the baby but not if the intention is to kill the baby. When the life of the mother is at serious risk by her pregnancy, the goal must be to save the life of the mother and the baby if at all possible. It is just as wrong to kill the mother to save the baby, as it is to kill the baby to save the mother. "Legalizing" abortion, defined as the intentional killing of the unborn child, for the life of the mother leads to repugnant acts like emergency removal of late-term babies from the womb stopping midway in the procedure to kill the baby. If the baby dies, it is a tragedy; if the baby is intentionally killed, it is murder. If necessary to save the mom's life, the unborn baby could be delivered with the determination to care for both, and if possible, to save both the baby and mother!

chairmenmeow47
08-28-2008, 11:04 AM
until it doesn't have to rely on MY body to eat and breath, i'll decide what's going to shack up in my womb for 9 months, thanks :thu

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:04 AM
OK I may not be in the right frame of mind to be reading this shit. That just made my blood pressure go up.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:06 AM
until it doesn't have to rely on MY body to eat and breath, i'll decide what's going to shack up in my womb for 9 months, thanks :thu

9 months? they suck the life out of you for 18 years or more.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:06 AM
Well they could take it out as soon as you don't want it and put it in an incubater.

TEST TUBE BABIES FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:07 AM
TEST TUBE BABIES and ABORTIONS to headline Coachella 09

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:10 AM
The rich need to support the poor and pay the higher tax burden IMO.

That is one of the stupidest things I've heard.

I do feel taxes should be based on salary. If you make more, you pay more back into the system. The system that DOES NOT support the poor, but a system that helps keep this nation running. So that I don't have to worry about a bridge collapsing when I drive over it, or a levee breaking. A system that actually works, instead of a country that is falling apart.

Most of our "systems" for helping the poor are bullshit and abused until the end of time. They need to be completely scrapped and then redesigned. I am all for helping someone who's found themselves in a bad situation, but if they aren't doing anything to get out of it and just living off of our tax dollars, they need to hit the road.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:12 AM
exactly, there needs to be limits and some self motivation on the part of the people who need the help. Not just laying around waiting for another check.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:16 AM
I think that in order to live off our tax dollars a family of 4 needs to be pulling in under $16,000 a year. Could you imagine?

marooko
08-28-2008, 11:17 AM
That is one of the stupidest things I've heard.

I do feel taxes should be based on salary. If you make more, you pay more back into the system. The system that DOES NOT support the poor, but a system that helps keep this nation running. So that I don't have to worry about a bridge collapsing when I drive over it, or a levee breaking. A system that actually works, instead of a country that is falling apart.

Most of our "systems" for helping the poor are bullshit and abused until the end of time. They need to be completely scrapped and then redesigned. I am all for helping someone who's found themselves in a bad situation, but if they aren't doing anything to get out of it and just living off of our tax dollars, they need to hit the road.


exactly, there needs to be limits and some self motivation on the part of the people who need the help. Not just laying around waiting for another check.

apparently you guys are bitter and selfish like me. just ask, tom, he'll tell ya.

marooko
08-28-2008, 11:18 AM
I think that in order to live off our tax dollars a family of 4 needs to be pulling in under $16,000 a year. Could you imagine?

yes. and its not fun. so i stayed in school and got a job. whats the problem with that?

Roadkillhighway951
08-28-2008, 11:18 AM
why cant i vote for a dog or a horse arent there any on the ballot

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:19 AM
I think that in order to live off our tax dollars a family of 4 needs to be pulling in under $16,000 a year. Could you imagine?

If you have a family of four and you've been making 16k a year for any substantial amount of time, then I'm sorry. You have not been doing ANYTHING to better your situation, and we as a nation shouldn't have to suffer for your mistakes. We already have to suffer for the mistakes of our "leaders". That's more than enough for me.

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 11:20 AM
I don't think anyone should be allowed to go hungry. ANYONE. I don't care how fuckin lazy they are. They need to be able to eat.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 11:20 AM
well give me a handout so i feel better.

im not bitter and selfish, i just dont have any desire to help anyone who isnt willing to help themselves.

And how do you determine who is "willing to help themselves"?

What's the point of constantly working and working just for yourself? I don't see the point in that.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:22 AM
apparently you guys are bitter and selfish like me. just ask, tom, he'll tell ya.

I can live with that. I've worked hard to get where I am, and I'll continue to work hard to advance in life.

We've all hit rough patches. You move through it and work towards something better.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 11:22 AM
If you have a family of four and you've been making 16k a year for any substantial amount of time, then I'm sorry. You have not been doing ANYTHING to better your situation, and we as a nation shouldn't have to suffer for your mistakes. We already have to suffer for the mistakes of our "leaders". That's more than enough for me.

Have you been there? do you know for a fact that you haven't been doing ANYTHING? What about the guy who has to work long hours just to do that, and can't afford to quit and look for another job because if he does then his income is gone?

You people are vultures.

roberto73
08-28-2008, 11:23 AM
If you have a family of four and you've been making 16k a year for any substantial amount of time, then I'm sorry. You have not been doing ANYTHING to better your situation, and we as a nation shouldn't have to suffer for your mistakes. We already have to suffer for the mistakes of our "leaders". That's more than enough for me.

You're kidding, right? You have to be. My guess is that the parents in this situation would be so busy trying to feed their family and pay rent that they'd have a hard time finding a way to "better their situation."

Some of you are heartless bastards.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:23 AM
I don't think anyone should be allowed to go hungry. ANYONE. I don't care how fuckin lazy they are. They need to be able to eat.

That's what charities are for. Charities I have donated to in the past. However, I should not be REQUIRED to take on another persons laziness.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:24 AM
Have you been there? do you know for a fact that you haven't been doing ANYTHING? What about the guy who has to work long hours just to do that, and can't afford to quit and look for another job because if he does then his income is gone?

You people are vultures.

You're right. I do not have a family of four. I do not believe my financial situation can handle it. THAT'S the decision I have made. It's called fucking planning. If you can't do it, then how's that my problem?

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:24 AM
I think that in order to live off our tax dollars a family of 4 needs to be pulling in under $16,000 a year. Could you imagine?

That is 7.69 an hour, I made 8 when I got out of college. wow, hard to believe I lived off that at one time.

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 11:25 AM
Now that a lot of blue collar factory jobs have been shipped overseas, there may not be any way for those people to get a better job. And trying to get education to better themselves for that higher-paying job? That costs money. Sure maybe they can try for some kind of grant or financial aid but navigating through that red tape can be hard too.

marooko
08-28-2008, 11:26 AM
i have a 33 yr old friend living in his dads garage. working limbs and mind. works part time jobs, part time. if for some reason he wasnt able to stay there anymore, he'd be offered a room for a limited amount of time. but he would HAVE TO find work. or at least make an effort. otherwise, guess who's getting the boot? theres your example.

luckily he's started going to school to better himself.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:27 AM
How much does day care cost?

marooko
08-28-2008, 11:28 AM
Have you been there? do you know for a fact that you haven't been doing ANYTHING? What about the guy who has to work long hours just to do that, and can't afford to quit and look for another job because if he does then his income is gone?

You people are vultures.

you're completely missing the point. that guy is a candidate for help. the guy i described isnt. although i would make an attempt, i sure as hell aint gonna put myself through a hard patch to carry him or anyone else.

JustSteve
08-28-2008, 11:28 AM
the low end can run around $600 a month around where i am.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:28 AM
When my kids were younger it was $100/wk per kid. I believe it is up to $150/wk per kid now.

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 11:29 AM
The place near me wants $150/week for each kid (although there is maybe a 10% discount if you have more than one). It's more expensive for kids in diapers.

marooko
08-28-2008, 11:29 AM
Sure maybe they can try for some kind of grant or financial aid but navigating through that red tape can be hard too.

so lets all just quit working. cause, you know, its hard.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:30 AM
You know what we should do? We should have an opt in for our taxes. You can opt to help out the poor and suffering, or you can opt out of it.

I would love to see how many of you people on your high horse would actually opt in, or keep all that money for yourself.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:31 AM
so lets all just quit working. cause, you know, its hard.


No. You are being extreme.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:32 AM
With the right motivation a person can do anything, the problem is people get handouts and get lazy, that is why there should be a limit to how long a person can be on assistance, 1 year is plenty of time to get yourself through some sort of trade school to learn a skill. I worked hard to get where I am at, and through some pretty rough patches, I still am not thriving but I do the best I can with what I have. But if I lost my good paying job tomorrow and couldn't find another job in the same field, my ass would be getting whatever job I could take for whatever money I could make. Not sitting at home watching dr phil and whining about how I can't get by.

Young blood
08-28-2008, 11:33 AM
I want to scrape the fuck out of this thread with a wire hanger.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:34 AM
You know what we should do? We should have an opt in for our taxes. You can opt to help out the poor and suffering, or you can opt out of it.

I would love to see how many of you people on your high horse would actually opt in, or keep all that money for yourself.



100k a year aint all that much money. Making that we are closer to the poor than we are to the rich. The rich in America are like five percent of the population. They should be helping us all out.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:36 AM
100k a year aint all that much money. Making that we are closer to the poor than we are to the rich. The rich in America are like five percent of the population. They should be helping us all out.

The rich should be pay the same percentages as the poor. The problem is, THEY DON'T! Especially corporations. They get far too many tax breaks. Yes, you're paying a lot more, but you're paying the same percentage as everyone else. Fucking deal with it.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 11:36 AM
I want to scrape the fuck out of this thread with a wire hanger.


LOL

JustSteve
08-28-2008, 11:39 AM
When my kids were younger it was $100/wk per kid. I believe it is up to $150/wk per kid now.

The preschool we want our daughter to attend runs around $700/month for 3-4 days a week, half day each. it is pretty crazy, but we feel the benefits outweigh the costs, so we are working on making it happen. We are very fortunate that I have been able to be a stay at home dad, so we haven't had to spend a dime on day care, which is good considering I get less than $700 a month in benefits for permanent disability. As long as my significant other sells 1 to 2 houses a year we are doing alright. We were about to hit crisis mode, though, since our son will be born next week. Those bills are going to be nice and big, but some clients just bought a home last week giving us a nice check to make it through the rest of the year. Self employment is scary when trying to raise a family!

wmgaretjax
08-28-2008, 11:41 AM
I would love to see how many of you people on your high horse would actually opt in, or keep all that money for yourself.

Who the fuck cares? That's why taxes are mandatory. Because people like you and people like the ones you are talking about are worthless pieces of shit.

As for all the mindless drivel you posted about the rich supporting keeping the nation running with higher taxes, and NOT the poor. Do you realize what a large lower class will do to the middle class? The upper middle class? That's why part of your taxes go to unemployment. That's why some of your taxes go to services for those that aren't in as good of a position as you. It's not simply a matter of making things better for someone else, it's about people that have a better understanding of economics than you do realizing the implications of a lot of poor unhappy people that can't give back to the economy in any way.

Supporting the poor is maintaing the nation you fucking short sighted parasite.

JustSteve
08-28-2008, 11:41 AM
The rich should be pay the same percentages as the poor. The problem is, THEY DON'T! Especially corporations. They get far too many tax breaks. Yes, you're paying a lot more, but you're paying the same percentage as everyone else. Fucking deal with it.

how many "poor" people actually pay their taxes, though?

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:41 AM
Yeah that dollar amount was for in home daycare which is what I used, I didn't like the daycare facilities at all. too many kids and not enough adults. But I do know the nicer daycare facilities charge even more. I can't imagine going through all that again. I am so glad my kids are older now and that is not something I have to deal with.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 11:42 AM
how many "poor" people actually pay their taxes, though?

depends on your definition of poor.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 11:44 AM
well give me a handout so i feel better.

im not bitter and selfish, i just dont have any desire to help anyone who isnt willing to help themselves.

how do you come to the broad conclusion that an entire broad class of people are "unwilling to help themselves"? do you know them all personally?

bmack86
08-28-2008, 11:46 AM
you're completely missing the point. that guy is a candidate for help. the guy i described isnt. although i would make an attempt, i sure as hell aint gonna put myself through a hard patch to carry him or anyone else.

You do realize that I wasn't responding to you, and further that you posted your example after my post? Your friend is a lazy loser, but it also sounds like his parents are furthering that.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:47 AM
Who the fuck cares? That's why taxes are mandatory. Because people like you and people like the ones you are talking about are worthless pieces of shit.

As for all the mindless drivel you posted about the rich supporting keeping the nation running with higher taxes, and NOT the poor. Do you realize what a large lower class will do to the middle class? The upper middle class? That's why part of your taxes go to unemployment. That's why some of your taxes go to services for those that aren't in as good of a position as you. It's not simply a matter of making things better for someone else, it's about people that have a better understanding of economics than you do realizing the implications of a lot of poor unhappy people that can't give back to the economy in any way.

Supporting the poor is maintaing the nation you fucking short sighted parasite.

Fine, we'll have it your way. Those of us who choose to work hard and better our situations will continue to take care of those who'd prefer to sit on their couch eating bon-bon's.

roberto73
08-28-2008, 11:47 AM
I would love to see how many of you people on your high horse would actually opt in, or keep all that money for yourself.

Maybe this is the heart of the philosophical divide, where having compassion for the less fortunate is seen as elitism, and where the fact that you don't need help somehow obviates you from the responsibility to help others.

EDIT: And, you know, Newro7ic, fuck your last post and fuck it hard. Go work in a welfare office for a while, and then you'll see how many people on the dole are sitting around eating bon bon's. In my experience, a vast majority of the poor are working poor. It might only be anecdotal evidence, but I've worked in schools and welfare offices, and the idea that there's a large number of people just sitting around sponging off the system is a myth.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 11:49 AM
Maybe this is the heart of the philosophical divide, where having compassion for the less fortunate is seen as elitism, and where the fact that you don't need help somehow obviates you from the responsibility to help others.

I am more than happy to help someone who is willing to help themselves. Is that so hard to understand? Is that too much to ask for? If I'm helping someone through a rough patch, they better be doing everything in their power to get out of it. I don't want to support people so they can sit around being lazy all day.

Young blood
08-28-2008, 11:50 AM
Some cant even help themselves. They must just be lazy.

Mental problems are a choice.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 11:52 AM
Fine, we'll have it your way. Those of us who choose to work hard and better our situations will continue to take care of those who'd prefer to sit on their couch eating bon-bon's.

That's such a pathetic and self centered way to look at it. Keep thinking that people can magically lift themselves from the bootstraps at any point in their life and, thru hard work, become at least moderately well-off. It doesn't work that way for quite a few people. The mom who worked hard, but whose husband was an alcoholic and left her with two kids and a mortgage payment definitely agrees with you.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:02 PM
That's such a pathetic and self centered way to look at it. Keep thinking that people can magically lift themselves from the bootstraps at any point in their life and, thru hard work, become at least moderately well-off. It doesn't work that way for quite a few people. The mom who worked hard, but whose husband was an alcoholic and left her with two kids and a mortgage payment definitely agrees with you.

My mom is one of those people. She's now a Director at one of the biggest hospitals in Southern California. It's called hard work.

roberto73
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
How convenient for your argument. My mom is Mother Teresa.

chairmenmeow47
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
depends on your definition of poor.

no shit. if you can still afford beer, cigarettes and cable, you ain't poor.

PotVsKtl
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
This guy.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:04 PM
Fine, we'll have it your way. Those of us who choose to work hard and better our situations will continue to take care of those who'd prefer to sit on their couch eating bon-bon's.

You're an idiot. You have no idea what the poor actually do with their time. You've been sold a stereotype by people with other agendas and are mindlessly repeating what you've been told. You have no grasp of facts. If I were in charge I'd have you shot.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:05 PM
My mom is one of those people. She's now a Director at one of the biggest hospitals in Southern California. It's called hard work.

It's called blowing the CEO.

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 12:06 PM
It's called blowing the CEO.
Oooooooooh! Tell that to those die-hard Hillary supporters.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:07 PM
how do you think those 18 million cracks got there?

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 12:08 PM
OTL

http://homepage.mac.com/ndekke39/movies_files/biglebow.jpg

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:08 PM
You're an idiot. You have no idea what the poor actually do with their time. You've been sold a stereotype by people with other agendas and are mindlessly repeating what you've been told. You have no grasp of facts. If I were in charge I'd have you shot.

Where have I ever said everyone who is poor is lazy? I have not. There are those who choose to work towards something better, and those who don't. Life is made up of choices. Just like you've chosen your stance and I've chosen mine.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:08 PM
How convenient for your argument. My mom is Mother Teresa.

Well then, my condolences.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 12:09 PM
My mom is one of those people. She's now a Director at one of the biggest hospitals in Southern California. It's called hard work.

Exception rather than the rule.

marooko
08-28-2008, 12:09 PM
how do you come to the broad conclusion that an entire broad class of people are "unwilling to help themselves"? do you know them all personally?

because i grew up around a "broad" class of people milking the system and living better off than i was. should i have just followed along? work under the table while collecting welfare and driving a new car? guess i should go home, call my mom and tell her off for getting two jobs.

mom, why the hell did you teach me to work hard, why couldnt you just teach me to milk the system like 90% of my friends parents? whats wrong with you?


Maybe this is the heart of the philosophical divide, where having compassion for the less fortunate is seen as elitism, and where the fact that you don't need help somehow obviates you from the responsibility to help others.

EDIT: And, you know, Newro7ic, fuck your last post and fuck it hard. Go work in a welfare office for a while, and then you'll see how many people on the dole are sitting around eating bon bon's. In my experience, a vast majority of the poor are working poor. It might only be anecdotal evidence, but I've worked in schools and welfare offices, and the idea that there's a large number of people just sitting around sponging off the system is a myth.


Some cant even help themselves. They must just be lazy.

Mental problems are a choice.

some of you are pretty dumb for being so smart. no one said fuck the mentally ill. no one said fuck the ones that cant help themselves. read whats written, not what you wanna see.


im now gonna go home and sit on my comfy couch that i worked hard for and eat my lunch that is gonna taste good. and for the fun of it, im only gonna eat half and throw the other half away. fuck you and the guy across the street in the alley looking for food.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:09 PM
It's called blowing the CEO.

Hah. I'm sure that's what it is.

Someone has anger issues.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:10 PM
Where have I ever said everyone who is poor is lazy?


Those of us who choose to work hard and better our situations will continue to take care of those who'd prefer to sit on their couch eating bon-bon's.

You are the dumbest person on the board today. And that's saying something.

amyzzz
08-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Where have I ever said everyone who is poor is lazy? I have not. There are those who choose to work towards something better, and those who don't. Life is made up of choices. Just like you've chosen your stance and I've chosen mine.
But you're saying you don't want to support ANY of the poor and you justify this by pointing to a tiny minority of the poor who don't work and who could work.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Exception rather than the rule.

I'm more than aware. However, you can make a nice life for yourself under the most dire of circumstances if you just TRY. That is my only beef. I'm willing to help as long as you aren't just abusing the system.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:11 PM
Hah. I'm sure that's what it is.

Someone has anger issues.

yeah. The CEO's wife, for one.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:12 PM
But you're saying you don't want to support ANY of the poor and you justify this by pointing to a tiny minority of the poor who don't work and who could work.

You obviously have not read everything I've said. I did state earlier that I'm willing to help those who are willing to help themselves.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:13 PM
I'm more than aware. However, you can make a nice life for yourself under the most dire of circumstances if you just TRY. That is my only beef. I'm willing to help as long as you aren't just abusing the system.

are you 14? because you seem to have had no exposure to the real world.

roberto73
08-28-2008, 12:14 PM
im now gonna go home and sit on my comfy couch that i worked hard for and eat my lunch that is gonna taste good. and for the fun of it, im only gonna eat half and throw the other half away. fuck you and the guy across the street in the alley looking for food.

Since when is being selfish something to be proud of? I don't get it.

Whatever. I'm tired of banging my head against this wall.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:14 PM
are you 14? because you seem to have had no exposure to the real world.

That's a fantastic counter argument. I'll take that into consideration.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 12:14 PM
mental retardation is the theme of the day.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:16 PM
You can make a nice life for yourself under the most dire of circumstances if you just TRY.

look at these lazy fuckers.

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/03/30/mn_africa24_048_mac.jpg

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:17 PM
That's a fantastic counter argument. I'll take that into consideration.

I am not going to waste a counterargument on you, since you have demonstrated no capacity to understand one.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:18 PM
look at these lazy fuckers.



You're using Africa as your comparison to life in America? I mean, really?

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:19 PM
oh so it's only American poor that are lazy?

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:23 PM
oh so it's only American poor that are lazy?

That was the context of this conversation, unless I am mistaken. Also, I don't believe I've said that everyone who is poor is lazy. I said that if you aren't trying to improve your situation, you shouldn't be receiving help.

I'm not sure why that's such a hard thing for you to grasp. Based on that one statement, it's quite obvious I don't believe that all poor people are lazy. However, if you want to skew my words to maintain your argument, please feel free to do so.

You can also continue with the personal attacks against me, if that's the maturity level you wish to bring to this debate.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:25 PM
3 paragraphs and you didn't answer the question.

locachica73
08-28-2008, 12:29 PM
no shit. if you can still afford beer, cigarettes and cable, you ain't poor.

No shit!!!

I use to babysit for a lady when I was a kid who was on welfare, had 5 kids, got paid alot of money and foodstamps to not work, her kids use to only get to eat speghetios out of a can and her boyfriend who was a drug dealer got to eat steak and shrimp from her food stamps. I firmly believe that if you are on welfare then there should be mandatory birth control until you are able to support your kids without a check.

boarderwoozel3
08-28-2008, 12:30 PM
Don't you have to prove you're trying to get a job to recieve unemployment?

Although I realize its not hard to BS that.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:30 PM
3 paragraphs and you didn't answer the question.

I believe I did. You believe I think that all poor are lazy. I have never made that statement.

Africa is in dire need of assistance. Many nations without any structured government, suffering constant warfare and genocide. Abysmal health care and living conditions. No real opportunity for advancement unless you somehow escape. Cartels and rogue military's wreaking havoc across many of the countries within Africa.

Do you believe this is a fair comparison to the current situation in America? You're trying to compare something that isn't even remotely comparable.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:31 PM
Don't you have to prove you're trying to get a job to recieve unemployment?

Although I realize its not hard to BS that.

Yes. Unemployment is also limited. On top of that, you had to be working at one point to receive unemployment. This is an example of a working system. However, it does need a few more checks and balances, it's not a terrible system.

rage patton
08-28-2008, 12:33 PM
Africa is a very backward place. My girlfriend went there for a couple months earlier in the year to help teach and help out at an orphanage. She said almost all the kids there had cell phones, but the same kids barely had anything to eat. Part of the problem is that they want so badly to be like the west, but aren't willing to work for it.

faxman75
08-28-2008, 12:35 PM
So basically you are telling us blacks are lazy and not willing to work?

locachica73
08-28-2008, 12:36 PM
laziness is not based on the color of your skin either. I know plenty of lazy white people.

Newro7ic
08-28-2008, 12:38 PM
This thread has strayed off topic, and has even become somewhat brutal.

My apologies. I will step back and return the thread to it's rightful owners.

boarderwoozel3
08-28-2008, 12:39 PM
So basically you are telling us blacks are lazy and not willing to work?

Thats not what I got out of it.

And yes, a society that is filled with cell phones but still goes hungry obviously needs to get its priorities straight.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 12:41 PM
Africa got fucked when a bunch of Europeans decided to colonize it and raze the old sociopolitical systems in order to gain their own profits, and then just dropping everything without any sort of government building or reparation from those countries. Africa got screwed and then left out in the cold.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:41 PM
I believe I did. You believe I think that all poor are lazy. I have never made that statement.

Africa is in dire need of assistance. Many nations without any structured government, suffering constant warfare and genocide. Abysmal health care and living conditions. No real opportunity for advancement unless you somehow escape. Cartels and rogue military's wreaking havoc across many of the countries within Africa.

Do you believe this is a fair comparison to the current situation in America? You're trying to compare something that isn't even remotely comparable.

You keep contradicting yourself and are too stubborn and stupid to see it. Perhaps quoting you verbatim would make you own your own words.

You said "Those of us who choose to work hard and better our situations will continue to take care of those who'd prefer to sit on their couch eating bon-bon's." and use that as your justification for being opposed to programs helping the poor.

You said, "You can make a nice life for yourself under the most dire of circumstances if you just TRY." most dire are your words, not mine. And now you argue about how dire things are in Africa. Again, your words, not mine.

No one is comparing Africa to America, except you.



edit: also, "You can make a nice life for yourself under the most dire of circumstances if you just TRY" is calling all poor people lazy. Just because you say it isn't doesn't make it so.

boarderwoozel3
08-28-2008, 12:43 PM
Africa got fucked when a bunch of Europeans decided to colonize it and raze the old sociopolitical systems in order to gain their own profits, and then just dropping everything without any sort of government building or reparation from those countries. Africa got screwed and then left out in the cold.

This is the most accurate post in this thread.

rage patton
08-28-2008, 12:43 PM
So basically you are telling us blacks are lazy and not willing to work?


Africa got fucked when a bunch of Europeans decided to colonize it and raze the old sociopolitical systems in order to gain their own profits, and then just dropping everything without any sort of government building or reparation from those countries. Africa got screwed and then left out in the cold.

Exactly, rather, Africans are disillusioned.

TomAz
08-28-2008, 12:46 PM
This thread has strayed off topic, and has even become somewhat brutal.

My apologies. I will step back and return the thread to it's rightful owners.

go play in the small sand box

faxman75
08-28-2008, 12:55 PM
Africa got fucked when a bunch of Europeans decided to colonize it and raze the old sociopolitical systems in order to gain their own profits, and then just dropping everything without any sort of government building or reparation from those countries. Africa got screwed and then left out in the cold.


I agree and I also just realized you quoted me in your sig. Thank you. :D

PlayaDelWes
08-28-2008, 12:58 PM
..I do feel taxes should be based on salary. If you make more, you pay more back into the system...


The top 1% earners in the US who earn only 22% of total household income pay 40% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

The top 25% of taxpayers, who earn 68.2% of the nationís income paid 86% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

Average Tax Rates:
Top 1% of earners pay a 23% tax rate
Top 25% of earners pay a 16% tax rate
Bottom 50% of earners pay a 3% tax rate

Obama wants to give the biggest tax cuts to people who are paying only 3% of their income, and on average pay $300 in annual federal income taxes.

Beyond winning the votes of the poor, there is no justification for Obama to widen this discrepancy even further than it already is.

marooko
08-28-2008, 01:05 PM
Since when is being selfish something to be proud of? I don't get it.

Whatever. I'm tired of banging my head against this wall.

it was a joke, i would never do that.

bmack86
08-28-2008, 01:06 PM
The jokes don't work if they're logical extensions of your prior argument.

PotVsKtl
08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
http://s.wsj.net/media/Rand_Ayn_art_400_20080505104949.jpg

bmack86
08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
Quite

marooko
08-28-2008, 01:08 PM
nowhere in my posts do i suggest i laugh at homeless people, or throw away half my food. if thats what you get out of it, thats too bad.

marooko
08-28-2008, 01:09 PM
http://s.wsj.net/media/Rand_Ayn_art_400_20080505104949.jpg

looking good pot.

arbouler
08-28-2008, 01:11 PM
You're an idiot. You have no idea what the poor actually do with their time. You've been sold a stereotype by people with other agendas and are mindlessly repeating what you've been told. You have no grasp of facts. If I were in charge I'd have you shot.

i'd vote for tomaz and have him in charge ;)

bmack86
08-28-2008, 01:12 PM
Tom for president as a write in candidate.

jigsaw
08-28-2008, 01:29 PM
The top 1% earners in the US who earn only 22% of total household income pay 40% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

The top 25% of taxpayers, who earn 68.2% of the nation’s income paid 86% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

Average Tax Rates:
Top 1% of earners pay a 23% tax rate
Top 25% of earners pay a 16% tax rate
Bottom 50% of earners pay a 3% tax rate

Obama wants to give the biggest tax cuts to people who are paying only 3% of their income, and on average pay $300 in annual federal income taxes.

Beyond winning the votes of the poor, there is no justification for Obama to widen this discrepancy even further than it already is.

I would love to know how much the top 1%, top 25% and bottom 50% earners make...do you know?

TomAz
08-28-2008, 01:30 PM
The top 1% earners in the US who earn only 22% of total household income pay 40% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

The top 25% of taxpayers, who earn 68.2% of the nationís income paid 86% of ALL Federal Income taxes.

Average Tax Rates:
Top 1% of earners pay a 23% tax rate
Top 25% of earners pay a 16% tax rate
Bottom 50% of earners pay a 3% tax rate

Obama wants to give the biggest tax cuts to people who are paying only 3% of their income, and on average pay $300 in annual federal income taxes.

Beyond winning the votes of the poor, there is no justification for Obama to widen this discrepancy even further than it already is.

If you look at it as a percentage of disposable income (income after paying for food,clothing,housing, other basic necessities), the results are quite different.

There is something unseemly about a well-off person saying that poor people should give up more of their money.