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View Full Version : bug proudly presents::::THE WORLD WAR III UBER-THREAD



bug on your lip
08-15-2008, 05:45 AM
mmmmmm.... Rushen Ivansion of close US ally Georgia
threats of Ivansion against close US ally Ukraine...

and now this little gem hits the news-waves:

A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/russia_us_missile_defense

canexplain
08-15-2008, 06:25 AM
hey bug, yea, i have been following that ... when Lennon said , give peace a chance, guess no one listened :( x****

marooko
08-15-2008, 06:26 AM
hope they wait till after track and field.

nahuatldream
08-15-2008, 07:24 AM
mmmmmm.... Rushen Ivansion of close US ally Georgia
threats of Ivansion against close US ally Ukraine...

and now this little gem hits the news-waves:

A top Russian general said Friday that Poland's agreement to accept a U.S. missile interceptor base exposes the ex-communist nation to attack, possibly by nuclear weapons, the Interfax news agency reported.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080815/ap_on_re_eu/russia_us_missile_defense

I wonder if pre-emptive strikes are exclusive to the U.S. We can count on Jon Stewart juxtaposing post-9/11 statements about the need for pre-emptive strikes, with post Poland-bombing statements about unwarranted, unprovoked attacks on a sovereign nation.

disgustipated
08-15-2008, 07:41 AM
russian. sniper. cowards.


4eyQ5Maqf80

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 07:46 AM
The hipocrisy of our current chief of state does not negate the fact that Russia's exercise of military strength and intimidation tactics are wrong. They invaded Georgia, are threatening to invade Ukraine, and now threatening to destroy Poland.

marooko
08-15-2008, 07:48 AM
agreed.

canexplain
08-15-2008, 07:55 AM
The hipocrisy of our current chief of state does not negate the fact that Russia's exercise of military strength and intimidation tactics are wrong. They invaded Georgia, are threatening to invade Ukraine, and now threatening to destroy Poland.

actually georgia started the fight thinking america would come to their aid ... they have given mcain over 800k but that wont buy you a decent war ...x**** and in turn that gave the frigging russians a reason to do what they have wanted to do for about 8 years ...

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 08:10 AM
actually, it started because a southern state within Georgia claimed that the Georgian military was starting shit and called for aide from Russia. Georgia immediately withdrew the troops they had and Russia decided to take it upon itself to march into the capital of Georgia far away from the southern state they were claiming to protect. The reason Russia is getting away with this nonsense is because they hold Europe by the natural resources balls and the US can only do so much because we need Russia to align with us in regards to Iran.

I need a source for McCain receiving $800k because as far as I know a foreign nation or dignitary cannot contribute funds to any public servant.

jigsaw
08-15-2008, 08:15 AM
I'm to busy gettin' drunk to worry about war...

Young blood
08-15-2008, 08:20 AM
Thls_tMuFkc

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 08:32 AM
Well, it looks like France was nice enough to negotiate a cease fire :thu
all we are saying ("http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26216434/)


TBILISI, Georgia - Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said Friday that he had signed a cease-fire agreement with Russia, but that he would "never, ever surrender" in a showdown with Moscow over two pro-Russia separatist regions.

Saakashvili, who said the deal protects the former Soviet republic's interests despite concessions to Russia, also accused the West of inviting Russian aggression. He spoke to a joint news conference with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

canexplain
08-15-2008, 09:19 AM
actually, it started because a southern state within Georgia claimed that the Georgian military was starting shit and called for aide from Russia. Georgia immediately withdrew the troops they had and Russia decided to take it upon itself to march into the capital of Georgia far away from the southern state they were claiming to protect. The reason Russia is getting away with this nonsense is because they hold Europe by the natural resources balls and the US can only do so much because we need Russia to align with us in regards to Iran.

I need a source for McCain receiving $800k because as far as I know a foreign nation or dignitary cannot contribute funds to any public servant.

i will have to see if i can find an online source ... it was on CNN last night ... i sort of look at this problem a little like when the south wanted to seceed from the union and the north said you cannot leave the US ... was it the south's choice, or we as a nation could not let them ... that small part of georgia where the trouble begain, most of them have russian passports, and they want to be russian and not georgian .... dont know how i feel who is right ...but i know the russians are wrong to a large degree .. they dont want a nato base in their backyard (like we didnt want stuff in cuba and look what we did) and we are bullies also starting the Poland thing by saying we are putting rockets there too .... so its ying and yang to me ... x****

canexplain
08-15-2008, 09:26 AM
sorry i misspoke and said that wrong but that is not the way they put it last night .....

The payments raise ethical questions about the intersection of Randy Scheunemann's personal financial interests and his advice to the Republican presidential candidate who is seizing on Russian aggression in Georgia as a campaign issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080813/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_lobbyist

had a few shots when i heard that last night ... the Supposition by the talking head was part of that money went into the macain camp ... still wrong, those damn lobby people ... x***

marooko
08-15-2008, 09:29 AM
... still wrong, those damn lobby people ...

...are on both sides...

canexplain
08-15-2008, 09:39 AM
...are on both sides...

yea they all suck ...x****

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 09:49 AM
agreed.

btw: can, totally jealous you're going to the dnc

canexplain
08-15-2008, 10:01 AM
agreed.

btw: can, totally jealous you're going to the dnc

yea, tnx .... rage and lots of good music, but i was going anyway so that is just a perk ... i got tossed in jail in 68 during the chi riots, i really really dont want that to happen again, but its not looking good right now ... but no, i am so ready for that weekend .... x****

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 10:07 AM
You expect to go to jail cr****?

suprefan
08-15-2008, 10:11 AM
Ron is one crazy protesting mofo.....

canexplain
08-15-2008, 10:12 AM
You expect to go to jail cr****?

no i dont, i have maybe to much faith in people, but during some of the R-68 meetings, the head dude said, they expect for sure to be tossed and we should know it might and probably will happen to us .. the sad thing is, the main reason i dont want it to happen is, my co worker is out that friday aug 29th plus the fine is either 250 or 500 bucks ... those kind of things didnt used to even be in the equation, but now they are ... but they did say at my work i can call in sick or vacation on that day lol ....x****

marooko
08-15-2008, 10:20 AM
so why exactly might you all be thrown in the slammer? do you plan on being unruly?

canexplain
08-15-2008, 10:22 AM
so why exactly might you all be thrown in the slammer? do you plan on being unruly?

going to lunch now, but i will come back and reply ....x****

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 10:33 AM
ron = my hero

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 11:47 AM
If I'm not working during the DNC, maybe I should go.

PotVsKtl
08-15-2008, 11:50 AM
actually, it started because a southern state within Georgia claimed that the Georgian military was starting shit and called for aide from Russia. Georgia immediately withdrew the troops they had and Russia decided to take it upon itself to march into the capital of Georgia far away from the southern state they were claiming to protect. The reason Russia is getting away with this nonsense is because they hold Europe by the natural resources balls and the US can only do so much because we need Russia to align with us in regards to Iran.

Wrong.

bmack86
08-15-2008, 11:51 AM
On many levels, no less

marooko
08-15-2008, 12:02 PM
Wrong.


On many levels, no less

well that cleared that up.

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 12:12 PM
Wrong.


On many levels, no less

proof

bluemamba
08-15-2008, 12:35 PM
Come on guys theres not gonna be any war. dont worry.

bluemamba
08-15-2008, 12:40 PM
End this shitty thread!!!

disgustipated
08-15-2008, 12:47 PM
End your shitty life!!!

canexplain
08-15-2008, 12:51 PM
You expect to go to jail cr****?

i am going to put my reply on the dnc in denver thread ...x****

PassiveTheory
08-15-2008, 12:55 PM
End this shitty thread!!!

Says the guy who made the absolutely idiotic youtube thread not too long ago...

As for Russia holding a resource stranglehold on it's neighbors, I thought Russia, historically, was resource starved, and the whole invasion to protect the sovereignty of the portion of Georgia that wants to secede is a front to conquer Georgia and gain access to Georgia's oil pipeline with Turkey as well as to gain a bigger piece of the Black Sea.

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 12:58 PM
possibly a reason for their invasion, but Russia is the a major supplier of oil & natural gas to Europe

Blinken
08-15-2008, 01:02 PM
Russia has abundance of natural gas and oil. Most of Europe gets their natural gas and oil from Russia. The pipeline made Russia angery because it takes Russia out of the equation and they can't make money off it.

This is an interesting report from CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/14/beck.georgia/index.html

NEW YORK (CNN) -- "This is for America. This is for NATO. This is for Bush."

These were the phrases that the president of Georgia, Mikheil Saakashvilli, told me were on Russian bombs falling before, during and after the numerous cease-fires that have come and gone since the Georgian-Russian conflict began.

He went on to say that he believed the Russians were not fighting a war with Georgia; in reality, they were fighting a war against the idea of Georgia, the governing principles behind it.

To have a flourishing democracy in a neighboring country is seen as a threat. It is a stark contrast from Russia's brand of state-controlled pseudo-capitalism. The Russians, he said, "want to kill the idea of freedom, and by proxy they imagine they fight a war with the United States."

Although the name Georgia is familiar to the United States, the country isn't. Most Americans don't know its remarkable story. The first time I spoke to Saakashvilli a few months earlier, it was under much more pleasant circumstances. I found him to be a young, energetic and well-spoken reformer who in many ways understands our founding fathers better than most Americans.

He spoke to me about his vision for Georgia, the vision that transformed it from a failed state to a burgeoning democracy with a quickly growing economy.

He said, "the government is going to help you in the best way possible, by doing nothing for you, by getting out of your way. Well, I exaggerate, but you understand. Of course we will provide you with infrastructure and help by getting rid of corruption, but you have all succeeded by your own initiative and enterprise, so you should congratulate yourselves."

Saakashvilli turned one of the most crooked nations on the planet into a place where people want to do business. His way of dealing with Georgia's incredibly corrupt police was amazing. No talk, just action.

"The first thing we did a few years ago when I became president: We fired the entire police force of the country." That's right, about 40,000 officers were fired, by his count. New recruits were brought in, and he told me that the public confidence in the police skyrocketed from 5 percent to 70 percent.

The notion that Saakashvilli believes in the ideas that formed our country isn't a surprise. He attended Columbia University Law School and studied our founding fathers, becoming determined to give the people of Georgia the same opportunities and freedoms that we take for granted here.

Imagine a nation with ideals forged in the traditions of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington and James Monroe, sitting in what once was the Soviet Union. Now imagine how much that might be appreciated by ex-KGB agents like Vladimir Putin, the Russian prime minister.

When I spent a half an hour with Saakashvilli on my show this week, his mood was much different than in our earlier conversation. I told him that if Americans knew the story of Georgia, they would realize how important it was. I asked him to speak directly to America, tell us what is really happening and why we should care.

He said, "when the Soviet Union collapsed, when the Cold War was over, when I went to study in the U.S. and finally I realized my dream, I never thought that this evil would come back again. I never thought the KGB people would again try to run the world. And that's exactly what's happening now. What`s at stake here is America's -- America's ideals. If it will collapse in Georgia, it will collapse in other countries and in other places as well."

Luckily for Georgia, the world has generally aligned against Russia's aggression. Whether there are any teeth behind the talk is still unknown. Saakashvilli expressed gratitude for the supportive comments made by President Bush and both Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama.

Even the United Nations issued a statement to express "serious concerns at the escalation of violence." Incredibly, that didn't seem to stop Russia. Who would have thought? If things get worse, I'll expect the U.N. to issue a harshly worded letter, a disapproving glare and maybe even a mildly annoyed "tsk tsk."

It's hard to know for sure what is really behind this conflict. Analysts have theories; citizens have sides. But even if you look past the 'he said, she said," in the end, it still goes back to a war being fought over ideals.

Back in the 1980s, Ronald Reagan led the effort to bring down the Soviet Union, partly by spending them into oblivion. We had the resources, we unleashed our economy, and we won (at least temporarily). We won by using the same principles that Saakashvilli talked to me about.

But he wasn't the only one watching and learning. Russia learned as well, and they now appear to be doing the same things that we did to them back in the '80's. Unless we wise up, we risk seeing the same result. We taught them this game. We can't allow it to be used against us. iReport.com: Do you remember the Cold War?

The long-term solution is to make ourselves stronger and more self-sufficient so that when these problems arise, we can't be held hostage. We need to become energy independent and financially solvent. But in the short term? I'm just glad I'm not president so I don't have to make these decisions. (Yes, I know you are, too.)

For now, we have to do what we can to strongly support Georgia, start to get our own ship in order, and take seriously the messages sent by the bombings.

"This is for America. This is for NATO. This is for Bush."

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 01:22 PM
I have to say I'm giving a big thumbs up to Bush for his stance on this conflict.

canexplain
08-15-2008, 01:27 PM
i think the most interesting part of this, all the water carriers on the radio are saying , well of course we cannot start a war with russia, we have to use deplomancy and economic things against them ... yikes the right wing saying we cant use force ... they are afraid of someone who might fight back and give them a good battle ... chickenhawks ....x**

marooko
08-15-2008, 01:29 PM
what is his stance? seriously. i haven't been listening to shit lately.

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 01:32 PM
He's on Georgia's side; he sent in Condoleezza Rice to champion Georgia. I'm not sure what any of his motives for that, but I think pro-democracy is a good thing (barring wacky pre-emptive strikes).

marooko
08-15-2008, 01:37 PM
i think the most interesting part of this, all the water carriers on the radio are saying , well of course we cannot start a war with russia, we have to use deplomancy and economic things against them ... yikes the right wing saying we cant use force ... they are afraid of someone who might fight back and give them a good battle ... chickenhawks ....x**

cause only they would be attacked?


He's on Georgia's side; he sent in Condoleezza Rice to champion Georgia. I'm not sure what any of his motives for that, but I think pro-democracy is a good thing (barring wacky pre-emptive strikes).

i thought that was it, just wasn't too sure. news has been depressing me so I stay away.

PotVsKtl
08-15-2008, 01:39 PM
Being on Georgia's side has nothing to do with democracy. Georgia instigated the conflict by bombing the fuck out of S. Ossetia. If you paid attention to any media outside the U.S. you would know this. You can go shove your big thumbs up to Bush up the ass of a shredded Ossetian corpse.

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 01:42 PM
I knew if I made some kind of statement either way someone would come in with more specifics. Good job, asshole! :thu

allyjoy
08-15-2008, 02:03 PM
Being on Georgia's side has nothing to do with democracy. Georgia instigated the conflict by bombing the fuck out of S. Ossetia. If you paid attention to any media outside the U.S. you would know this. You can go shove your big thumbs up to Bush up the ass of a shredded Ossetian corpse.

No one is arguing that Georgia is a good country or that they are on the up & up about what they were doing in South Ossetia. There are claims of ethnic cleansing from 1996, but the issue is not necessarily about the people of the country. Russia is flexing it's muscle to let the world know that it is still a threat. Russia's attack is not just its military prowess, but also its economic and political strength. It's a game of chicken. I believe that Russia doesn't give a flying hoot about the people of the two states within Georgia who want to rejoin the motherland. They saw an opportunity and took it.

Here's a great Q&A from James Traub (writer for NYTM)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/world/europe/12georgiaqanda.html?scp=8&sq=georgia%20Q&A&st=cse


In South Ossetia, on the other hand, Georgia engaged in shelling that may have been indiscriminate we don't know yet. It may have been responding to attacks from Ossetian irregulars and from Russians we don't know yet. But there is no reason to believe that Georgia committed war crimes.

Serbia engaged in a campaign of ethnic cleansing, first against Bosnia, then against Kosovo; what the Serbs did in the Balkans is worse by far than anything the Georgians did in their own neighborhood. Nevertheless, having said that, Georgia never fully reckoned with the strength of nationalist feeling in both areas.

bmack86
08-15-2008, 02:08 PM
Except many people in South Ossetia had Russian issued passports and identified more with Russia than Georgia? Russia doesn't care about people they're invested in?

And, quote American journalists who grew up with the Cold War left and right. International journalism doesn't take quite the same tack that we've had in our reports.

canexplain
08-15-2008, 02:14 PM
Except many people in South Ossetia had Russian issued passports and identified more with Russia than Georgia? Russia doesn't care about people they're invested in?

And, quote American journalists who grew up with the Cold War left and right. International journalism doesn't take quite the same tack that we've had in our reports.

yea bmack, that was my analogy of the north vs the south .. if they really want to be russians, what is our say in that ...if they didnt, it would be one point, and if they did, we are back to the "do you follow what is good for the country as a whole, or do you let the people decide what they want and keep (us) out of someone else's business ... aalyjoy, you are right on your last statement btw, imho ... x****

PotVsKtl
08-15-2008, 02:47 PM
The point is that both parties are bad actors in this conflict. This "standing with Georgia" bullshit is pure propagandistic asshands. Also, Amy is an idiot.

amyzzz
08-15-2008, 02:56 PM
I know it's propaganda. That's why I feel so good about it.

BlackSwan
08-15-2008, 03:00 PM
Says the guy who made the absolutely idiotic youtube thread not too long ago...


oooo the dreaded fro-burn... i think he's just bitter because people are actually posting in this thread.

TomAz
08-15-2008, 09:20 PM
actually, it started because a southern state within Georgia claimed that the Georgian military was starting shit and called for aide from Russia. Georgia immediately withdrew the troops they had and Russia decided to take it upon itself to march into the capital of Georgia far away from the southern state they were claiming to protect. The reason Russia is getting away with this nonsense is because they hold Europe by the natural resources balls and the US can only do so much because we need Russia to align with us in regards to Iran.

I need a source for McCain receiving $800k because as far as I know a foreign nation or dignitary cannot contribute funds to any public servant.

what really happened was, Georgia was selling peaches at a cutrate price in the black market, and Russia was pissed because, you know, peach schnapps is good shit and the provnotiks all wanted it for themselves and don't need any fucking Caucasians fucking it up. The ruble sucks, but uranium is still cheap, at least compared to Ossetra caviar, so they invaded. Fried chicken is available if you want it. And collard greens and whatever else they like.

miscorrections
08-15-2008, 09:20 PM
Cornbread.

bmack86
08-15-2008, 10:34 PM
Wattamellon

All That I Am
08-16-2008, 06:25 AM
Being on Georgia's side has nothing to do with democracy. Georgia instigated the conflict by bombing the fuck out of S. Ossetia. If you paid attention to any media outside the U.S. you would know this. You can go shove your big thumbs up to Bush up the ass of a shredded Ossetian corpse.

Absolutely correct!

WatchFox news cut away during an interview with a 12 year old girl who says it was Georgian troops that were bombing Ossetia.
H8XI2Chc6uQ

greghead
08-16-2008, 11:10 AM
Bush's response to this was weak. Condie should have been glad-handing European capitals the day after this shit started, she didn't even get to Paris until Thursday. Russia is (and has been) attempting to forge a larger sphere of influence in the former Soviet states, both politically and economically. What Bush and other leaders need to do is fuck with Russia through diplomacy and economic sanctions. Russia's economy can be easily crippled, though W. Europe still wants it natural gas and oil, so this must be played very deftly by all parties.

Did anyone watch the Daily Show where Stewart showed the clip of the UN delegate from the U.S. giving a speech about the time of military invasions (in Europe) has long passed? Fucking hilarious

PassiveTheory
08-16-2008, 12:13 PM
...In Europe.

Wheres the beef?
08-16-2008, 02:11 PM
I need a source for McCain receiving $800k because as far as I know a foreign nation or dignitary cannot contribute funds to any public servant.

Uhm....... AIPAC?