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faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:07 PM
I know this is a very polarizing subject but lets talk about Zack and the gang a bit. At Lollapalooza Zack went on some anti government rant and said if Obama is elected and doesn't pull out troops immediately instead of bringing them home in 16 months we need to burn down senate buildings or something. At least that's what I got from it but i'm sure someone can defend what he said and make his point more clear to me.

Are they ever going to write a new song or just continue to tour on nostalgia? What do they think of people acting nuts at their shows and hurting eachother or themselves? I mean almost every show they do they have people either injuring eachother, others or causing police to tear gas and rubber bullet the crowd. Now, i'm against police brutality and I wasnt at the DNC show like Supre was but i've been to half a dozen rage shows and this time I finally wised up and passed. I like the music but their fans are the biggest douchebags on earth. I would argue even more dangerous than ICP fans.

Zach is all about protesting the government and wasting energy on mummia abdul Jabbar of all people. I fear some day Zack is gonna get sick of all humans and order the crowd to kill eachother, and if they do, then what?

I also heard that anywhere between 500-2000 of these fans busted down the gates of lolla and got in for free.

I guess my complaint is not against the band at all but the fans who don't seem to be more than a box of rocks. Not all of them mind you but it is absolutely the majority of them at these shows. All this fuss over a band that hasn't played a new song in 10 years. Weird. It shows you the power they have though.

What does everyone else thing abotu Ragerrr grrrr?

Mr. Dylanja
08-06-2008, 01:13 PM
Senior year in high school (at the peak of my angst) they were my favorite band on earth.

Now, I couldn't care less....

drowningmatt
08-06-2008, 01:14 PM
Senior year in high school (at the peak of my angst) they were my favorite band on earth.

Now, I couldn't care less....

Samezies

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:16 PM
Self titled album is great. I'll listen to it anytime. Their shows are cool and you 're a pussy if you can't hang. Rollout! I was able to handle Lolla and Slayer pits when I was 15. If its too tuff...surf it out.

I was in high school when rage bursted on the scene and they always had mass appeal.

No one is going to kill some one just because Zack Dela tells them to.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I just don't understand the grrr were gonna burn down the world grrrr message. I don't understand all the drunken white middle class violence and anger. They appear to be ready to date rape at any moment and if they are drunk enough they will probably violate anyone or any species.

zenidogx
08-06-2008, 01:17 PM
yeah, i only graduated high school a year ago and people still were into Rage. but only very few of them knew that Che was more than just a face on a shirt.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:18 PM
Samezies

Samerzies

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:20 PM
I just don't understand the grrr were gonna burn down the world grrrr message. I don't understand all the drunken white middle class violence and anger. They appear to be ready to date rape at any moment and if they are drunk enough they will probably violate anyone or any species.



I think those two things have nothing to do with each other (rages' message and white middle class violence and anger).

sbessiso
08-06-2008, 01:22 PM
I just can never get into them. It's angry noise to me. I'm not a Hater though, I can dig why people like them. There's a big difference between not liking and Hating

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:22 PM
Self titled album is great. I'll listen to it anytime. Their shows are cool and you 're a pussy if you can't hang. Rollout! I was able to handle Lolla and Slayer pits when I was 15. If its too tuff...surf it out.


See, that's what I mean. I'm not a pussy if I can't hang. In fact no one is a pussy if they can't hang because the crowd is so fucking violent people get taken away in ambulances. You are a fucking tool for thinking someone is a pussy if they hang because they are being crushed. Zack had to stop the show multiple times because of injuries. That's fucked up. You all have something in common, the music so why hurt eachother or be so violent people get hurt. What about chicks who like rage? Should they not be there because the music is meant to be some frat boy thrash fast where anything goes?



I was in high school when rage bursted on the scene and they always had mass appeal.

No one is going to kill some one just because Zack Dela tells them to.

I would bet money if in the midst of the chaos Zach commanded people to go fuck up the police, a bunch of meatheads would head over and attack. You underestimate what his fans would do for him. I don't think he would ever tell anyone to do so but IF he did, it's guaranteed someone would follow. That's not the bands fault either, I blame the meathead fans and there are a lot of them. The fans are flat out rude to other artists that perform prior to them as well. Ask the bands who played before Rage on the AT&T stage what type of response they got from the die hards that camped all day to see Rage.

marooko
08-06-2008, 01:23 PM
ive seen them 4 times. never been hurt, never been involved in a riot and never seen a riot take place because of their show. and i mosh.

if you talk to the fans, they really arent assholes for the most part. they're just really excited to see a band they like. and the band has a lot of angry energy. yes, like in every group, there is always a bunch of rotten apples, but lets point fingers, not paint with a broad brush.

the first time i saw them i fell twice and was immediately helped up. the last time I saw them, i helped two people get up and stayed with one guy for most of their opening song because he thought he might pass out. im a big fan.

about new music. yes please. i am getting sick of seeing them and they not having new material.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:23 PM
I think those two things have nothing to do with each other (rages' message and white middle class violence and anger).


Well they have one thing in common. The fan base is definitely white middle class so apparently Zack's message isn't reaching the right audience?

sbessiso
08-06-2008, 01:25 PM
Plus, I never got into rap-metal

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:27 PM
ive seen them 4 times. never been hurt, never been involved in a riot and never seen a riot take place because of their show. and i mosh.

if you talk to the fans, they really arent assholes for the most part. they're just really excited to see a band they like. and the band has a lot of angry energy. yes, like in every group, there is always a bunch of rotten apples, but lets point fingers, not paint with a broad brush.

The broad brush isn't exactly being used. Not ever single person but I will continue to argue a majority of them are the meatheads we all have seen at these shows and all discuss. you may not get hurt and that's great but someone almost always does. People who like their music aren't all assholes.
There are a lot of assholes at Rage shows though. Every single one I have seen has been dangerous to a greater degree than any other artist I have seen.



the first time i saw them i fell twice and was immediately helped up. the last time I saw them, i helped two people get up and stayed with one guy for most of their opening song because he thought he might pass out. im a big fan.

That's great and that's the type of fan experience you should expect. People getting crushed and some getting to physical is still a problem though. If people are being taken away by ambulance there is a problem.

marooko
08-06-2008, 01:28 PM
Well they have one thing in common. The fan base is definitely white middle class so apparently Zack's message isn't reaching the right audience?

im not white. and at coachella i saw countless latinos pointing at their brown skin during "down rodeo"

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:33 PM
All I know is the majority of folks at the shows I have been too are white and angry. I don't think I stated anywhere that every single rage fan is white though. That we can agree on. Certainly from what I have seen, the whole bro, frat boy, shirtless thugs stereotype comes from somewhere and it's from those types of folks. The angry drunk white shirtless guys. Maybe the latinos and blacks and asians that love rage just aren't as violent and douchey though. There is certainly a portion of the crowd at every show I have been to that lacks respect for those around them and intelligence. It's mostly the shirtless white guys.

marooko
08-06-2008, 01:35 PM
There is certainly a portion of the crowd at every show I have been to that lacks respect for those around them and intelligence. It's mostly the shirtless white guys.

considering my experience, i cant really argue this.

BlackSwan
08-06-2008, 01:38 PM
they are nothing like they used to be... downhill after Evil Empire. although back in the day (90's) they were awesome.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:41 PM
See, I disagree. The show at Coachella was exactly the same as the shows I saw at the Tibetan Freesom Concert and the Aragon Ball Room in Chicago in the mid and late 90's. How have they gone downhill? The musical talent is the same, hell the god damned setlist hasn't changed save the songs that came out after Evil I suppose.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:45 PM
See, that's what I mean. I'm not a pussy if I can't hang. In fact no one is a pussy if they can't hang because the crowd is so fucking violent people get taken away in ambulances. You are a fucking tool for thinking someone is a pussy if they hang because they are being crushed. Zack had to stop the show multiple times because of injuries. That's fucked up. You all have something in common, the music so why hurt eachother or be so violent people get hurt. What about chicks who like rage? Should they not be there because the music is meant to be some frat boy thrash fast where anything goes?

Okay, I'm a tool for telling you how I feel about it?

It is the individuals’ fault. If people are starting to be assholes around you then you should move, for your own sake. You've heard the rumors, you can see the crowd, and you should be able to realize when the situation is too much for you to handle. Seriously what are some of those kids and girls thinking even going into those pits?

TAPOUT

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:50 PM
Okay, I'm a tool for telling you how I feel about it?

You are a tool for calling someone a pussy for not being able to hang with a crowd that is crushing them to death.



It is the individuals’ fault. If people are starting to be assholes around you then you should move, for your own sake. You've heard the rumors, you can see the crowd, and you should be able to realize when the situation is too much for you to handle. Seriously what are some of those kids and girls thinking even going into those pits?

TAPOUT

That's like saying it's not the murderers or the person committing assaults fault, it's the victims fault for being in the situation. Great logic.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:51 PM
Anyways the punks who started the fire behind me at Vegoose were a little out of control. But do you think my lady was still standing there by that time? NO, She said "I am going to go sit by the fence" once it got too crowded for her to handle.

marooko
08-06-2008, 01:53 PM
Okay, I'm a tool for telling you how I feel about it?

It is the individuals’ fault. If people are starting to be assholes around you then you should move, for your own sake. You've heard the rumors, you can see the crowd, and you should be able to realize when the situation is too much for you to handle. Seriously what are some of those kids and girls thinking even going into those pits?

TAPOUT

this thinking is responsible and simply WRONG. when you see a situation you dont like, you change it to your liking. you do this by constantly complaining and trying to pass law.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 01:55 PM
Anyways the punks who started the fire behind me at Vegoose were a little out of control. But do you think my lady was still standing there by that time? NO, She said "I am going to go sit by the fence" once it got too crowded for her to handle.


Sounds like a wonderful concert experience for your lady. What a pussy she must be. *LOL*

If your chick can't hang why the fuck you bringing her to a Rage show?

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:55 PM
You are a tool for calling someone a pussy for not being able to hang with a crowd that is crushing them to death.

this is all assumption on your part anyways, right. i thought you said you skipped rage this weekend.


That's like saying it's not the murderers or the person committing assaults fault, it's the victims fault for being in the situation. Great logic.

Well when the victim has every opportunity to get away from the situation, then yeah, it's their fault. They are putting themselves in the situation.

And this situation isn't that rough, please.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 01:58 PM
Sounds like a wonderful concert experience for your lady. What a pussy she must be. *LOL*

If your chick can't hang why the fuck you bringing her to a Rage show?

Hommie,

She is some damn fine pussy at that! The show was Vegoose and she wanted to see Muse and Ghostland. Anyways she still saw Rage. She was just in a more comfortable spot in the grass with a brewskie.

Jigga

faxman75
08-06-2008, 02:00 PM
this is all assumption on your part anyways, right. i thought you said you skipped rage this weekend.

Good point, so I shouldn't believe the hundreds of reviews written about the show being stopped more than once and why it was stopped. All speculation. I'm assuming everyone made up the same story to make the bands fans look bad. Damn Rage fans always making up stories about violence at shows. I must have hallucinated the same experiences at the previous shows I attended as well.



Well when the victim has every opportunity to get away from the situation, then yeah, it's their fault. They are putting themselves in the situation.

And this situation isn't that rough, please.

You are right. It's all made up. I'm also sure it's simple to get out of a crowd of 40 thousand or so people squished in one spot. Brilliant observations. I must not have a single clue about concerts or what a Rage show is like. I just assumed all of this stuff.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 02:01 PM
Hommie,

She is some damn fine pussy at that! The show was Vegoose and she wanted to see Muse and Ghostland. Anyways she still saw Rage. She was just in a more comfortable spot in the grass with a brewskie.

Jigga

The grass with a brewskie? ahhahahah what a pussy omg loollllers

marooko
08-06-2008, 02:03 PM
you're not assuming, you're over exaggerating. anyone who's been to ANY rock show knows that the pit area can be overwhelming. if you dont know that after the first time, you're either dumb or.....

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 02:15 PM
The grass with a brewskie? ahhahahah what a pussy omg loollllers

I wasn't trying to type a goddamn novel. Sorry, if my words offended you. : ) I think you get my point though.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 02:16 PM
you're not assuming, you're over exaggerating. anyone who's been to ANY rock show knows that the pit area can be overwhelming. if you dont know that after the first time, you're either dumb or.....



exactly

BlackSwan
08-06-2008, 02:33 PM
The grass with a brewskie? ahhahahah what a pussy omg loollllers

that is, if you can find it through her beer gut.

jigsaw
08-06-2008, 02:37 PM
hahahhahahha

TommyboyUNM
08-06-2008, 02:41 PM
I consider Rage my favorite band, so here's my perspective. I really really dislike most Rage fans. I know, faxman, I told you that I just "match their intensity" at shows. I just meant by jumping around maybe bumping into other people (harmlessly). I didn't mean injure people and act like complete douches. That's what I witnessed at Lolla. I had to crowd surf outta there and get a more comfortable spot because people were being idiots.

As far as Rage's political message, I don't agree with most of what Zack has to say. I'm not a fan because I love thier political beliefs. I'm a fan because I love their music. I'm actually not real enthused with the idea of them making new music. I don't know why, maybe I'm afraid that it won't be up to par with the other albums. I think their so out there with their message because they want attention. You don't get attention by being quiet. Your message will get lost in the shuffle. You get noticed by getting angry. As Zack says in Freedom, "Your anger is a gift." That's a lot of what fuels Rage Against The Machine.

The 3 Rage shows I've seen (Coachella, Vegoose and Lolla) have been 3 of the most enjoyable shows I've ever been to. And that's because I avoided all the REALLY crazy people and made the concert my own.

Hope that helps.

allyjoy
08-06-2008, 02:43 PM
I guess my complaint is not against the band at all but the fans who don't seem to be more than a box of rocks. Not all of them mind you but it is absolutely the majority of them at these shows. All this fuss over a band that hasn't played a new song in 10 years. Weird. It shows you the power they have though.

What does everyone else thing abotu Ragerrr grrrr?

Because tons of kids across the world at some point got angry and angsty and didn’t know at whom or why they were mad and groups like Rage embody their frustrations with life and support being mad. They give the greenlight to being angry because there are reasons to everyone should be pissed off. The problem is that 13-19 year old white middle & upper middle class kids don’t comprehend why Rage is angry. It’s not in their immediate history to understand. These kids are angry because mom & dad don’t want them smoking weed in the house and they're hormonal, not because the police detained them illegally for fitting a profile or have seen their homes bombed. They understand the anger, but not the cause and it leads to mindless acts of violence rather than the social change Rage claims to be about. Anger and frustration are easy to identify with.

sidenote: I saw them last year @ Rock the Bells and they were AMAZING!

scoop49er
08-06-2008, 02:53 PM
i am 37 yrs old and have been a rage fan since the beginning so here is a quick education on this topic:


get this through ur head, all groups have certain shithead fans. hell, i took my mom to see her idol tom jones and she went down to the front and almost got in a fight with 2 different hags.. i took my daughter to a kelly clarkson concert and i got pushed by a 8 yr old and a mom who got mad that i was in the way...

its funny but its the truth..i did concert secuirty for years and all genres of music have douches and rage fans are no different...

now to talk about rage:

i wear my rage shirt to alot of concerts, country, metal, pop, alternative and i always get the big fist in the air and someone saying "rage!!!" girls, guys, parents, kids, etc...

they are a intense band so u r gonna get intense people.. their concerts are no different than metal shows but because indie/alternative/hip hop crowds are not use to hard hitting pits, the first thing they want to say is" rage fans are assholes".. trust me there are some but not as many as other groups...

in fact, rage crowds are very into the music.. lots of bopping the head, jumping up and downs, singing along.etc.. when someone drops, they get picked up.... metal mosh pits are usually the best behaved cuz they know what they r doing....

now in regards to their politics... u can agree or disagree. all music comes from within and if u relate to it, then u get into it... do i agree with alot that they say?? yes. im a mexican born and raised in central california so i know alot of family who r farm workers and get shit on daily by WHITE farmers and get looked down on by society because they want a better life.. they do care only about BREAD, AND WATER AND HOUSING, AND JUSTICE!!. my dad was a truck driver for 40 yrs and hauled hay to farmers and heard little shitehead white farmers and their fucked up kids call him a wetback, spic, foreigner but my dad said" fuck you'! and made a a good living and got me to learn values and learn how to do ur own thing and for sure say "fuck you i wont do what they tell me"..

so yea rage is still relevant cuz there are still people getting kncoked down everyday, including whites and latinos,and blacks by their job, thier landlord, their banker, their loan officer, etc,etc...

at the same time, i dont agree with certain aspects of their politics. and its always an issue to know that while they preach revolution and change, i can be tom morello on guitar hero and rock out while he gets his pockets fat...

but id rather be into a band that for the most part believes in itself than be into some band of the moment fukwads that only care about pleasing the masses... so as i would say to anyone.... to each ur own!!!!!!!!! :)

marooko
08-06-2008, 02:56 PM
sidenote: I saw them last year @ Rock the Bells and they were AMAZING!

in SF or SD?

just saw "the city of angles". ill assume SD. or was it san bernardino?

allyjoy
08-06-2008, 03:00 PM
San Bernadino... I spent pretty much the entire day in the pit... well worth the near heat stroke

Mr. Dylanja
08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
I spent pretty much the entire day in the pit... well worth the near heat stroke

Soldier Status!

Thattagurl!

faxman75
08-06-2008, 03:32 PM
i am 37 yrs old and have been a rage fan since the beginning so here is a quick education on this topic:


get this through ur head, all groups have certain shithead fans. hell, i took my mom to see her idol tom jones and she went down to the front and almost got in a fight with 2 different hags.. i took my daughter to a kelly clarkson concert and i got pushed by a 8 yr old and a mom who got mad that i was in the way...

its funny but its the truth..i did concert secuirty for years and all genres of music have douches and rage fans are no different...

now to talk about rage:

i wear my rage shirt to alot of concerts, country, metal, pop, alternative and i always get the big fist in the air and someone saying "rage!!!" girls, guys, parents, kids, etc...

they are a intense band so u r gonna get intense people.. their concerts are no different than metal shows but because indie/alternative/hip hop crowds are not use to hard hitting pits, the first thing they want to say is" rage fans are assholes".. trust me there are some but not as many as other groups...

in fact, rage crowds are very into the music.. lots of bopping the head, jumping up and downs, singing along.etc.. when someone drops, they get picked up.... metal mosh pits are usually the best behaved cuz they know what they r doing....

now in regards to their politics... u can agree or disagree. all music comes from within and if u relate to it, then u get into it... do i agree with alot that they say?? yes. im a mexican born and raised in central california so i know alot of family who r farm workers and get shit on daily by WHITE farmers and get looked down on by society because they want a better life.. they do care only about BREAD, AND WATER AND HOUSING, AND JUSTICE!!. my dad was a truck driver for 40 yrs and hauled hay to farmers and heard little shitehead white farmers and their fucked up kids call him a wetback, spic, foreigner but my dad said" fuck you'! and made a a good living and got me to learn values and learn how to do ur own thing and for sure say "fuck you i wont do what they tell me"..

so yea rage is still relevant cuz there are still people getting kncoked down everyday, including whites and latinos,and blacks by their job, thier landlord, their banker, their loan officer, etc,etc...

at the same time, i dont agree with certain aspects of their politics. and its always an issue to know that while they preach revolution and change, i can be tom morello on guitar hero and rock out while he gets his pockets fat...

but id rather be into a band that for the most part believes in itself than be into some band of the moment fukwads that only care about pleasing the masses... so as i would say to anyone.... to each ur own!!!!!!!!! :)

First of all I would have to totally disagree with you on the Tom Jones and many other bands having worse fans. While there may be some, your mom or grandma getting into a screaming match with some hag is hardly the same as the large groups of people that hit hard at a rage show. You know better and you aren't going to convince anyone here that the Tom Jones crowd is rougher no matter what.

Second, you're 37 and typing like you are 16 LOLLerz. MaB I should 2 srsly.

Ok, i'm just poking fun and I could care less how you type, just giving you shit but on a seriousl note, i'm not following the part where you say you would rather like a band that believes in itself and not the masses. Why would it be a bad thing to play pleasing music that the masses like? Whatever they stood for at one time is gone, they are playing for millions of dollars at music festivals under corporate banners. Whatever statement theya are trying to make now just looks silly. If they were about the message and themselves and not about the money they would play some venue for $10-$20 a show.

Now as far as comparing them to a metal crowd, that I would agree with to a point, except Rage has worse pits than even the harshest of metal crowds, they are just as bad if not worse than Suicidal Tendancies and Pantera. There is a respect at metal shows or they are pros at it like you say that is completely absent from Rage crowds.

It's one thing to jump up and down or be in a pit jumping into people, it's enother to all out tackle and come out bloody and bruised or even have to be taken to the hospital.

faxman75
08-06-2008, 03:33 PM
Also about your Tom Jones comparison, you don't have 500-2000 people busting down baracades and refusing to pay in order to see the bands you speak of.

Boourns
08-06-2008, 03:55 PM
People don't get broken legs with bones sticking out of the flesh at Tom Jones concerts.

roberto73
08-06-2008, 04:06 PM
Without new material, RATM is exactly as relevant as REO Speedwagon doing the state fair circuit.

marooko
08-06-2008, 04:09 PM
San Bernadino... I spent pretty much the entire day in the pit... well worth the near heat stroke

when i saw them at rock the bells, it was th only time i wasnt in the pit. for the lady, she's not as savage as you. savage as in fierce, not animal like or anything. hehe


Without new material, RATM is exactly as relevant as REO Speedwagon doing the state fair circuit.

i dont know man, REO is pretty dope.

marooko
08-06-2008, 04:13 PM
lets just sum this up to. "i dont like rage or there fans at coachella."


my first concert, i saw 3 people get pulled out by security for being ass hats in the pit. never saw that at a rage show. thats NOT to say its never happened, i just havent seen it. i also had a friend come back from a slayer concert with his arm in a sling, a busted lip, and a black eye. so yeah, like many people are saying, its NOT JUST a rage thing. its a heavy metal music thing.

allyjoy
08-06-2008, 04:25 PM
People don't get broken legs with bones sticking out of the flesh at Tom Jones concerts.

no, but they break their hips during "It's Not Unusual" either way...


Soldier Status!

Thattagurl!
I have my moments ;)

Mr. Dylanja
08-06-2008, 04:26 PM
TommyBoy, how old are you? My guess is right around 19.

I agree with Scooper's main point, every band has bad fans, some more than others I'm sure.


I think RATM's music is most identified by 17-21 year old males. I don't think that is their intention at all, but that IS who they connect with most.

Think about it, testosterone levels peaking along with anger and rebellion most late teenagers have.

RATM = Fuck the man! (which would pretty much sum up my HS attitude) I fit this category to a tee when I was this age and I think most of the current Rage fans fall in it as well.

This group is what keeps this band relevant. As long as there are HS kids full of angst, Rage shows will stay the same.

TommyboyUNM
08-06-2008, 05:32 PM
TommyBoy, how old are you? My guess is right around 19.


I'm 26. I'm curious to know why you think I'm 19. I don't know if that's a good thing for me. Yikes. Haha.

Mr. Dylanja
08-06-2008, 05:53 PM
I'm 26. I'm curious to know why you think I'm 19. I don't know if that's a good thing for me. Yikes. Haha.

My bad, I was hoping it would help prove my point for what crowd represnts RATM age wise.

Have they always been your fav since the self titled?

They used to be my favorite band w/out question but I just don't have that same angry outlook I did in HS.

It's probably me conforming to The Man, hence proving Zack's point =(

TommyboyUNM
08-06-2008, 05:57 PM
My bad, I was hoping it would help prove my point for what crowd represnts RATM age wise.

Have they always been your fav since the self titled?

They used to be my favorite band w/out question but I just don't have that same angry outlook I did in HS.

It's probably me conforming to The Man, hence proving Zack's point =(


They've been my favorite since Evil Empire. I was about 14 when that was released. I was never angry so that's not why I was into them. I just loved the music. It had nothing to do with anger for me. Maybe I'm in the minority of Rage fans?

Down Rodeo
08-06-2008, 06:12 PM
Yo TommyBoy, I grew up in Las Cruces. Good to see a fellow New Mexican on here.

Oh, and I'm still an enormous Rage fan and I'm 23. I don't know if I fit the stereotypical mold of Rage fans, but I connect with their anger because I know most of the issues they're angry about. I do happen to agree with their positions most of the time - maybe not their methods, though.

frozen pilgrim
08-06-2008, 06:13 PM
crowds are dependent entirely on where the concert is, not who's playing.
a rage mosh pit in las vegas, germany, and japan, will all be 100% different.
in toronto, nobody fucking dances at dancey shows, or get decent circle pits going at heavy ones. it's all about just standing there and looking cool and shoving people who get in your way. I hate it- that's why I love coachella- the harshest mosh pit or crowd surge there (i.e. rage, or believe it or not, friggin bjork in 07) is nothing compared to a freaking foo fighters concert in detroit.

my opinion on rage?

like them. agree with some stuff, not so much with other stuff. they're just a band. one I like a lot, but still, just a band

TommyboyUNM
08-06-2008, 06:18 PM
Yo TommyBoy, I grew up in Las Cruces. Good to see a fellow New Mexican on here.

Oh, and I'm still an enormous Rage fan and I'm 23. I don't know if I fit the stereotypical mold of Rage fans, but I connect with their anger because I know most of the issues they're angry about. I do happen to agree with their positions most of the time - maybe not their methods, though.


I didn't think there was another New Mexican on here. Right on. I used to always drive to Cruces for Lobos/Aggies games in basketball and football. Those were always great times tailgating with Aggies, though it used to get violent sometimes.

As far as Rage's political beliefs. I absolutely see where they're coming from but, like you, I don't agree with the methods. Again, I've never been all that angry and that's not what drew me to like Rage.

scoop49er
08-06-2008, 06:24 PM
u people totally did not get what i was saying... but i expect that... rage has dealt with this since 92..trust me il school most of u when it comes to knowledge on this. u hate rage.. u love rage.... u hate the fans... u love music.... its the same bullshit every band goes through...

and when i brought up tom jones, im talking about a concert experience.. and i did 3 years of all forms of security of festivals and learned alot and also worked under the man who runs bonnaroo so i have enough knowledge and age to know that the complaints u all have are the same bullshit thats always there.... u just are too stupid too see it... but its expected.... rock on brothers and learn ur limits...

scoop49er
08-06-2008, 06:25 PM
dont get me wrong i type horribly and am sometimes borderline retarded, but not about music and concerts and the type of people who whine and bitch like pussies (faxman)

scoop49er
08-06-2008, 06:31 PM
Also about your Tom Jones comparison, you don't have 500-2000 people busting down baracades and refusing to pay in order to see the bands you speak of.

that is not ratm's fault... thats security....... end of story...

canexplain
08-06-2008, 07:06 PM
scoop we have to get together even if 49 means the niners .. i forget sorry .. i always think you are one of the sages on the board, then i see your age, then i see fuck that doesnt matter, scoop you need to go to WS 09 with us ... x****

frozen pilgrim
08-06-2008, 08:23 PM
yeah scoop, you seem like a nice dude- hey wasn't it you that predicted prince from this crazy-in source of yours?

faxman75
08-06-2008, 08:44 PM
that is not ratm's fault... thats security....... end of story...

*LOL* umm no that would be the 500-2000 Rage fans busting down the gates fault. Not umm security.

frozen pilgrim
08-06-2008, 08:56 PM
no, that's security's fault. and poor planning.
ever been to a football match anywhere in europe, south america, or africa?
someone here's gotta have this experience- being in the stadium, knowing somehow security's keeping an extra 20,000 rabid fans outside?
know your enemy, people

woogie846
08-07-2008, 09:49 AM
San Bernadino... I spent pretty much the entire day in the pit... well worth the near heat stroke

What was the crowd like?

Mockingbird73
08-07-2008, 10:26 AM
ugh. never got into their aggro-rock. my ex-husband used to LOVE them but whenever he would listen to them he would go all retarded and start with some lame stomping around thing. he would pick fights for no reason. and he would ask how I couldn't be totally into a band that had such a great message.

it made him act like a jackass, that was the only message i ever got.

he also loved stain'd (can i shoot myself now???) and thought that everything else that wasn't in that vein was lame. when he would misplace my cd's or otherwise piss me off, i would go through and snap his cd's and toss 'em. i would just claim to not know where they were. he bought a lot of replacement Rage cd's. :rolleyes

the crazy thing is, i worked in the concert industry at the time, so it wasn't like he wasn't being exposed to great new bands regularly. he made a conscious decision to listen to shit. it was like he had been brainwashed by KROQ

there's a very good reason (amongst many, really) he's an EX-husband

Memorial_07
08-07-2008, 10:34 AM
I think they're fans turned into douchebags just since they came back.
They are still in my top 5 favorite bands but they're fans forgot the message, they just want to fuck each other up.

humanoid
08-08-2008, 08:58 AM
my sophomore Honor's English teacher's son was very good friends with the band, around '92 or so, my teacher actually brought in their demo and played it in class....Mrs. Dieter, pretty awesome teacher

I got to see Rage so many times in the early days that I don't really care anymore...

back in my angsty teenage years, they were great, but I feel I've outgrown that style of music...they're very good at what they do, but when a band only releases 3 albums over this many years, its not that difficult to become sick of them...

If they released an album of new material, I might see them, but watching the same songs over and over again has grown tiresome

frozen pilgrim
08-08-2008, 09:01 AM
yeah, rage aren't exactly known for throwing down different versions of songs or anything. I think that's what earns bands a serious live following is having the songs never sound the same two nights in a row. that's one of the reasons I fell in love with queens

jkruthersthomas
11-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Clearly, Rage is still relevant today, as a couple of new bands out there are blatantly stealing from them! If it weren't for Kongcrete's black frontman and his incessant and unnecessary swearing and racial crap, I'd say that Kongcrete is a Rage reunion with Zack as an angry black man. I guess what Kongcrete is doing ain't so bad since a recent hit song by another mashup band called Gym Class Heroes blatantly steals from SuperTramp.

paulb
11-06-2008, 01:58 AM
who?

faxman75
07-01-2010, 02:51 PM
Bump....get ready for a Rage SoundStrike show against the AZ immigrations bill. I'm guessing they will do it in L.A. since they won't do it here where it matters. The strike is garbage but thought I would share this info with you Rage fans.

http://www.billboard.com/news/zack-de-la-rocha-ups-the-rage-against-arizona-1004101033.story



"In the coming weeks we are going to be organizing a series of concerts that are respectful of the nature of the boycott in its attempts to isolate the Arizona government but not isolate the people, and especially the organizations that are fighting this on the ground," de la Rocha said in a telephone interview. "Many of us have begun to plan concerts that include bands that have signed on the Sound Strike, and make tickets available so that people within Arizona can come and see these concerts as they roll out. These are things that are being set into motion right now - a series of concerts or maybe even one giant concert in late July."



De la Rocha says that "there's a strong chance" Rage Against the Machine will play one or more of the concerts.

He is wrong though. It is isolating the Arizona fans of any of these bands and promising a huge concert once this law is repealed doesn't help the local art community, venues and promoters who are likely to suffer NOW.

Either way, they will play some shows.

suprefan
07-01-2010, 03:09 PM
Shut it, mexican hater.

Hooray for more Rage shows..

paulb
07-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Rage shows....holy fuck, will be at 1 no matter what...

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 03:23 PM
I will be in attendance. In America money talks so I agree with the strike :)

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 03:23 PM
LOL @ that article. How is NIN protesting? They already stopped performing.

shermanoaksyo
07-01-2010, 03:25 PM
Making Arizona suffer is kinda the point? That's the apparent consensus among politically active/powerful latinos in CA and elsewhere, anyway - they want to send a very clear message that if your state tests positive for Arpaio-itis, your residents will suffer in terms of cancelled business deals and fewer events.

Sorry AZ bros, it's a harsh left-wing plot.

fkuOAY-S6OY&a

faxman75
07-01-2010, 03:29 PM
I will be in attendance. In America money talks so I agree with the strike :)

The facts about who this will hurt and what it is doing.


An Open Letter to All Artists Boycotting Arizona

As a political activist and 15-year independent concert promoter in Arizona, I feel a deep obligation to speak out about the real world effects of artists boycotting the state in protest of SB 1070, the recent anti-immigration bill passed by the legislature and signed into law by our (unelected) Governor. While I respect the intentions of the artists protesting what they find to be an unjust law, the practical effect of the boycott is resulting in exactly the opposite of their good-willed intentions.

By not performing in Arizona, artists are harming the very people and places that foster free speech and the open exchange of ideas that serve to counter the closed-mindedness recently displayed by the new law. The people who will feel the negative effects of the boycott the deepest are local concert venues, including non-profit art house theaters, independent promoters, motivated fans, and the hundreds of people employed in the local music business. If the boycott continues, it is all but guaranteed that some of these venues will be forced to close their doors.

Think of it this way: What if otherwise outspoken and inspirational activists like Martin Luther King, Jr. had turned their backs on the State of Alabama and its citizens because they didn't agree with the discriminatory practices of its government during the critical years of the civil rights movement? What would have happened if they had chosen to boycott Alabama rather than speak out, organize, and effect change?

We are faced with a similar situation in Arizona today. The legislators currently in office don't care if outspoken artists boycott the state. The people responsible for SB 1070 don't want you here. They don't want your voices heard. And as a result of the boycott, they are the only ones who benefit. In effect, the decision to boycott is playing right into their hands.

As Curtis McCrary, the general manager of the non-profit Rialto Theatre in Tucson recently stated, "The individuals and organizations behind this bill are...more than likely delighted about the prospect of politically vocal artists canceling shows - silencing themselves rather than using the platform their status as artists gives them to speak out against SB 1070."

The truth is, a boycott is an easy gesture that doesn't require much more than a statement and removing a date from your tour schedule. However, if you truly care about the effects of the controversial immigration law that was passed, this is an opportunity to use your unique position as an artist with the ability to reach thousands of people to inspire, educate, and motivate your fans to actively be a part of the change.

I have felt and seen the effects of what artists can do to change peoples' lives individually and as a whole. In this important midterm election year, it is imperative that the voters are organized and prepared to express their views about the recent law at the voting booths in November. Every concert venue and promoter in the state would be happy to help coordinate voter registration drives and set up information booths in connection with concerts. Many of us are already planning specific events, including rallies and benefit concerts, designed to educate and encourage local music lovers to get involved at this crucial time.

This open letter is a call out to all artists to come take a stand and perform in Arizona. We need you now more than ever.

If you are interested in exploring ways to help us, including voter outreach and organizing with local non-profits, or you just want more information, please feel free to contact me at charlie@statesidepresents.com.

Charlie Levy
Stateside Presents

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 03:32 PM
Yeah I read that, Dale posted it the other day. My opinion stands. Yeah its hurting them but it sends a message. Somethings are worth more than money.

http://vimeo.com/12910609

faxman75
07-01-2010, 03:34 PM
Then you don't understand what you read. It's not hurting anyone it needs to. How much money do you think the state and the government is losing because My Morning Jacket isn't playing 2,500 person venue?
The politicians are loving every second of it. You don't get it. Explain to me how this will change things. Do it step by step. I'm really slow.

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 03:45 PM
How are the politicians loving this? I know people say all publicity is good publicity but that only holds true if you're Paris Hilton or something.

Government may only lose $5K from MMJ not playing that show. Which is bubble gum money. But more and more bands and artists stop doing this then what happens. People who may be against this law who otherwise don't feel the need to intervene now do.

Cause putting myself in Arizona's citizens shoes. I am 100% against the bill and I might head to a protest or two but that's where it stops. Now a few of my favorite artists refuse to perform here and now this bill effects me directly and I am in a way forced to do something.

That's just the hypothetical sense. Now the economic sense is the most outspoken people in this country for the most part are musicians. So for them to be the 1st to boycott means a lot. And you're right it may just be 5K one night, 3K the next, 8K the next and so on. But what if let's say a big motion picture company refuses to play a movie in the state? A big weekend convention that some association holds every year in Arizona decides to move? I doubt it happens but a football team refuses to play at Arizona's stadium. Yes the economic power these artists hold may be limited but that doesn't mean they shouldn't use it. It's like saying boycotting the buses was dumb because now white people get to enjoy the buses all to themselves and it hurts black people who end up being late to work or forced to get cars. If you have a chance to make a stand you make it just cause you feel it's the right thing to do not because you know the results you want will occur. Not every boycott works and I don't know Zach personally but I know it would hurt him inside if he stood by and did nothing.

faxman75
07-01-2010, 03:54 PM
I'm curious as to where you get these estimates of how much each artists cancelation is costing the state? Also people aren't going to be getting wind of cancellations at this point. The artists aren't scheduling shows here. Any cancellations have already taken place so it's not like someone with a ticket is all of the sudden going to hear about the cancelation and then learn about SB1070.

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 03:58 PM
My estimate is 2,500 x $25 ticket. And assuming you get $2 from tax from each ticket. Then again I could be wrong I dont know if performances are taxed differently than goods.

And it's not about learning more. Learning more does shit if you don't act. You can learn all you want but if you don't apply it it's like having a stove with no gas.

choice cat
07-01-2010, 04:04 PM
if this were to go down in LA thatd be awsome .. or even san diego

faxman75
07-01-2010, 04:41 PM
My estimate is 2,500 x $25 ticket. And assuming you get $2 from tax from each ticket. Then again I could be wrong I dont know if performances are taxed differently than goods.

And it's not about learning more. Learning more does shit if you don't act. You can learn all you want but if you don't apply it it's like having a stove with no gas.

In other words fuck the club owners who are already having a tough time with the economy and fuck the people who don't support this bill. This bill wasn't voted for by the people of Arizona and the governor who signed it wasn't elected to office by the people but the idea is to hope that Zack's initiative some day reaches someone who can make an impact on Arizona's economy. Which again, hurts small businesses and the art community more than anyone else.

You see it is a necessary collateral damage?


Cause putting myself in Arizona's citizens shoes. I am 100% against the bill and I might head to a protest or two but that's where it stops. Now a few of my favorite artists refuse to perform here and now this bill effects me directly and I am in a way forced to do something.

This comment is down right ridiculous. So people care enough about a cause to take to the streets and protest but in reality they don't care and won't act any further? When you say "forced to do something" wouldn't that be vote? You think activists and protesters aren't voting? Are you pulling this number out of your ass like you did with the estimated tax figure, or can you back this up? I actually marched with Zack in Arizona last year against law enforcement discrimination policies. I vote in every election so i'm wondering outside of activism and voting what am I too lazy to do next?

Should I listen to Zack like a sheep and take him literally when he says we should have have burned down every office of every senator in the country because we still have soldiers at war? Or is there something else that we should be doing between activism, voting and burning down buildings? Sorry if I don't trust his judgment on how to get things done. Especially when I know the music scene in this state is already struggling and this strike hurts people who are against this bill more than those who signed it into law.

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 05:47 PM
You see it is a necessary collateral damage?


Are you pulling this number out of your ass like you did with the estimated tax figure, or can you back this up?

Yes.

What number?

faxman75
07-01-2010, 06:04 PM
The number that you are going to use to quantify the protesters and activists who actually don't vote at the end of the day.

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 06:11 PM
The number that you are going to use to quantify the protesters and activists who actually don't vote at the end of the day.

You shouldnt assume what I am going to do. You make an ASS out of U and ME

faxman75
07-01-2010, 06:15 PM
If you can't quantify an important fact like that, it becomes worthless point.

WhyTheLongFace
07-01-2010, 06:38 PM
Cause you're talking about protesters and activists. I'm talking about the average person who is against this. And if that number is greater than 1 than Zack did something right

faxman75
07-01-2010, 06:47 PM
Alright, I guess we'll agree to disagree. I think clubs closing, people losing jobs and families going broke....even it if it's just 2, are a little more important than Zack's rock strike.

Llama of Time
07-01-2010, 07:11 PM
Heres something I posted on another forum about this situation, since I don't feel like re-typing it

"That whole situation pisses me off. What are they trying to prove by boycotting it? If they really think the law is THAT bad (I'm not saying I agree with it or anything, im just saying what they are doing is stupid) then why not have a concert, and talk to the people there telling them to do something about it? Boycotting won't do a thing except disappoint your fans. I hate when bands and celebrities think they are making a point by doing something stupid like this. I won't do something stupid like not listen to those bands that did this, but I've definitely lost a lot of respect for each one that has done that. The lead singer of Fucked Up said this and its very true

"Why not keep playing Arizona, using the shows as an opportunity to engage the people there to get involved (they are the ones after all capable to affecting change in the state), use press ops before the show to talk about what is going on in the local media, donate some of the guarantee to nomoredeaths.org or other such groups that work on the front lines fighting draconian immigration laws.... hell even get them to table at the show."

Thats actually very reasonable instead of boycotting. Now, I'm not from Arizona, but it pisses me off in general. If I actually lived in Arizona I'd probably hate these bands for this."

So basically, why wouldn't you have those shows in Arizona, where you can get your fans there to do something? I mean, if you have it in California, what are the Californians gonna do? Would they even care? They'd probably just go for the music. People from Arizona can at least petition and stuff. And as stated, 2,500 person venues closing isn't going to hurt the government of Arizona enough for it to matter. If the law is going to be changed, it won't be because of this.

faxman75
07-01-2010, 07:16 PM
Yep, which is almost the exact same point the local promoter was making in his letter. Use the platform and use in the state where it matters.


Think of it this way: What if otherwise outspoken and inspirational activists like Martin Luther King, Jr. had turned their backs on the State of Alabama and its citizens because they didn't agree with the discriminatory practices of its government during the critical years of the civil rights movement? What would have happened if they had chosen to boycott Alabama rather than speak out, organize, and effect change?

but lets all follow the rock star who also told us to burn down senate offices if Obama was elected and didn't immediately start bringing troops home. He says things for shock value and in this situation he isn't helping as much as he is hurting because people are believing it's the best solution all the while screwing the little guy who happens to agree with the opposition of the bill.

shermanoaksyo
07-02-2010, 07:51 AM
Maybe Zach wouldn't be fucking with your state if you and Jan Brewer weren't fucking with his people. Just sayin'

obzen
07-02-2010, 07:59 AM
Maybe Zach wouldn't be fucking with your state if you and Jan Brewer weren't fucking with his people. Just sayin'


Crushingblows.

faxman75
07-02-2010, 08:38 AM
Maybe Zach wouldn't be fucking with your state if you and Jan Brewer weren't fucking with his people. Just sayin'

Tell me more. I"m intrigued.

PJandBompton
07-02-2010, 12:56 PM
Why anyone would listen to Zach is beyond me. Tom is actually the smart one (to an extent) in the group, and consistently does benefit shows and stuff like that.

Zach, WHY THE FUCK does it make sense to have a show boycotting AZ in CA. no one gives a fuck here. they'll go to see RATM. Have that shit in AZ and bring attention nationwide and at the place where it actually matters.

It's kind of disgusting how they are willing to alienate (see what i did there) their fans...

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-02-2010, 01:44 PM
Having a protest show to boycott bringing money into a state in the very state you are boycotting is completely counterproductive. That makes no sense whatsoever.

PJandBompton
07-02-2010, 02:09 PM
Having a protest show to boycott bringing money into a state in the very state you are boycotting is completely counterproductive. That makes no sense whatsoever.

it's gotta be more than money. you've gotta be willing to sacrifice a little money towards the state if you can get people to rebel against the law. Having a show in CA isn't gonna do shit for the people willing to support the cause living in AZ.

WhyTheLongFace
07-02-2010, 02:43 PM
it's gotta be more than money. you've gotta be willing to sacrifice a little money towards the state if you can get people to rebel against the law. Having a show in CA isn't gonna do shit for the people willing to support the cause living in AZ.

This law effects more than just Arizona though especially when you have officials running in California on the backing that they support this law. And the whole point of the protest is to not give ANY money to the state that is funding the law. Don't you see how performing in said state would be a little silly?

faxman75
07-02-2010, 07:19 PM
Having a protest show to boycott bringing money into a state in the very state you are boycotting is completely counterproductive. That makes no sense whatsoever.

They aren't protesting bringing money into the state. They are protesting the immigration bill. They want the law stopped and they want profiling to stop. If they don't collect a few thousand in taxes from a concert, the politicians in favor of the bill don't lose anything. Literally the only thing this has a direct impact on is ...well Levy said it best.


The people who will feel the negative effects of the boycott the deepest are local concert venues, including non-profit art house theaters, independent promoters, motivated fans, and the hundreds of people employed in the local music business. If the boycott continues, it is all but guaranteed that some of these venues will be forced to close their doors.

How can a concert in California or wherever else Zack decides to perform offer this type of platform?


Every concert venue and promoter in the state would be happy to help coordinate voter registration drives and set up information booths in connection with concerts.

It makes the most sense to do this in every state that is even considering a similar law.

I have a question for you since you say that politicians in California are considering a similar bill. Why would it be a good idea to give tax dollars to their government? If it's a boycott against the racist bill then why wouldn't he be sending every state who is considering a bill like this the same message?

The right answer is to play a show in every state that shares this same belief about immigrants because it's not only prejudiced towards one race of people but it promotes xenophobia nationwide and the civil rights comparison is right on target. What would have happened if civil rights activists decided to isolate Alabama rather than organize, protest and speak out against it to the point of causing a change? Instead of using that community which would be energized by such an event, they are punishing them all and saying sorry, suck it up, since you live in the state you have to suffer the consequences. Now that's silly.

shermanoaksyo
07-05-2010, 03:34 PM
Zach, WHY THE FUCK does it make sense to have a show boycotting AZ in CA. no one gives a fuck here.

Do you have any Latino friends? Even on, like, facebook?

Somewhat Damaged
07-05-2010, 05:31 PM
Maybe Zach wouldn't be fucking with your state if you and Jan Brewer weren't fucking with his people. Just sayin'

Yeah, Mark, quit fucking with us Mexicans. Pinche gringo.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 07:50 AM
http://pitchfork.com/news/39468-rage-against-the-machine-conor-oberst-plan-arizona-protest-show/


Arizona's strict new immigration law continues to fire up musicians. Rage Against the Machine have announced that on July 23, they will play a benefit show at the Hollywood Palladium for Puete, Arizona and the Florence Project, two nonprofits working to fight the law. Conor Oberst and the Mystic Valley Band will open. It's Rage's first L.A. show in a decade.

Rage's Zack De La Rocha is one of the organizers of the Sound Strike, a controversial initiative encouraging a boycott of the state of Arizona. Oberst has been a vocal supporter of the Sound Strike.

Meanwhile, a group of Arizona bands have formed a group called Artists for Action, which encourages bands to come to Arizona to protest the law. Calexico and Jimmy Eat World are both involved. In a press release, Calexico's Joey Burns says, "We're asking artists to take a stand, make their voices heard, and inspire fans to get involved. Now is the time when art can make a difference. Now is the time for action."
Posted by Tom Breihan on July 15, 2010 at 8 a.m.


There is your show Cali! Calexico has the right idea though.

CellarOwl
07-15-2010, 07:58 AM
Boycotting Arizona over this bullshit really confuses me. It's like when Morrissey decided to boycott Canada because the Eskimos and Quebecois white trash were clubbing seals. Ultimately, the only people you're depriving and punishing in that country are YOUR fans, who odds are if they listen to you don't support that idiotic bullshit in the first place. If you want the boycott to have any possible merit, get Nickelback or Toby Keith or Def fucking Leppard to pull out of the state and do everyone who doesn't paint their car like on The Dukes Of Hazzard a favor.

Gribbz
07-15-2010, 08:01 AM
God, I hate Connor Oberst. I don't agree with the bill at all... but this whole thing is dumb.

Rosemont17
07-15-2010, 08:52 AM
why have the show in LA? simple:

1. brings in money to their cause
2. huge media market

its also during a week long of events that are bringing efforts to the cause.. agree or disagree with the cause, it will be a insane show!!

faxman75
07-15-2010, 08:57 AM
Those L.A. voters are really going to make an impact on future Arizona elections. Maybe Zack can find a way to get Cali residents to vote in Arizona. Raising awareness in Los Angeles about a law in Arizona is brilliant.

The show will be so insane they will continue to bust out their nostalgic songs from last decade. Zack should know better than to hurt the community who already opposes this bill. This does nothing to mobilize the people who can actually make change in Arizona.

getbetter
07-15-2010, 08:57 AM
I wonder how long Zack's rant is going be at this show.

Also wouldn't you wanna play shows in AZ so that you inspire the people that vote in that local government to make changes in their opinions for who they vote for.

Gribbz
07-15-2010, 08:59 AM
Those L.A. voters are really going to make an impact on future Arizona elections. Maybe Zack can find a way to get Cali residents to vote in Arizona. Raising awareness in Los Angeles about a law in Arizona is brilliant.

The show will be so insane they will continue to bust out their nostalgic songs from last decade. Zack should know better than to hurt the community who already opposes this bill. This does nothing to mobilize the people who can actually make change in Arizona.


Also wouldn't you wanna play shows in AZ so that you inspire the people that vote in that local government to make changes in their opinions for who they vote for.

Boom. Correct.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:06 AM
Could you imagine if Rage did a handful of guerilla style concerts throughout arizona with voter registration tables set up, educating the people who can actually get out and vote, local media covering it like crazy and Zack ranting against Sheriff Joe and the governor right under their noses?

It would be far more powerful. Instead you have a Rage concert in L.A. with a bunch of people who could really give a fuck less about Arizona all the while ignoring the people who need to be mobilized.

paulb
07-15-2010, 09:15 AM
yep......GO LA!

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:21 AM
Enjoy the show buddy. I know you'll have a blast. I've seen them in a venue of that size on the Evil Empire tour and I thought people were going to die.

Sexecutioner
07-15-2010, 09:24 AM
It would be far more powerful. Instead you have a Rage concert in L.A. with a bunch of people who could really give a fuck less about Arizona all the while ignoring the people who need to be mobilized.

this is how rage operates. they are all talk, but do little to actually practice what they preach. if communism is so awesome, why dont you give away your big houses and fancy cars and play for free bitches.

shermanoaksyo
07-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Could you imagine if Rage did a handful of guerilla style concerts throughout arizona with voter registration tables set up, educating the people who can actually get out and vote, local media covering it like crazy and Zack ranting against Sheriff Joe and the governor right under their noses?

It would be far more powerful. Instead you have a Rage concert in L.A. with a bunch of people who could really give a fuck less about Arizona all the while ignoring the people who need to be mobilized.

It's about $. We have it here in Hollywood and we will give it away to see Zach.

The money goes to one local group working on community organizing in AZ latino family neighborhoods (far more effective than going after rocker kids who will be hung over and asleep on election day), and for free legal services for people suffering from SB1070 persecution.

That's far more effective in terms of organizing and delivering services than the hard rock freak circus you outline above. I look forward to supporting this boycott.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:30 AM
I guess i'll look forward to the Calexico show. It's been almost a year since i've seen them. They have always been awesome to the local community doing charity gigs and claiming Tucson as home. They did a benefit for Congresswomen Gabrielle Giffords about a year and a half ago with Jim Atkins of Jimmy Eat World and she has been very vocal in this immigration fight as well, so i'm assuming she may be a part of what they are organizing.

shermanoaksyo
07-15-2010, 09:31 AM
this is how rage operates. they are all talk, but do little to actually practice what they preach. if communism is so awesome, why dont you give away your big houses and fancy cars and play for free bitches.

Fair criticism of Morello, but then again Morello's politics were always softer than Zach's.

If you are under the impression that Zach lives in a mansion or drives a fancy car, you are mistaken.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:34 AM
It's about $. We have it here in Hollywood and we will give it away to see Zach.

The money goes to one local group working on community organizing in AZ latino family neighborhoods (far more effective than going after rocker kids who will be hung over and asleep on election day), and for free legal services for people suffering from SB1070 persecution.

Right, because it would be impossible to give to the same communities and charities by doing the show here..that's ridiculous. That doesn't make sense. The people here in the community are going to be more willing to give to people who live, right here in the community and you can actually have many people from the community speak at such an event. Whatever they do in L.A. they can do just as easily here



That's far more effective in terms of organizing and delivering services than the hard rock freak circus you outline above. I look forward to supporting this boycott.

No, not really.

paulb
07-15-2010, 09:38 AM
Fair criticism of Morello, but then again Morello's politics were always softer than Zach's.

If you are under the impression that Zach lives in a mansion or drives a fancy car, you are mistaken.

I heard Zack drives a beaten down Volvo or VW or somethin... and he bummed an entire pack of cigarettes off my friend at the Troubadour back in the day.

Whats this criticism that they dont do anything charitable? Their free show in London this year from the song Xfactor campaign made millions and they gave it all to London homeless shelters...

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:39 AM
Fair criticism of Morello, but then again Morello's politics were always softer than Zach's.

If you are under the impression that Zach lives in a mansion or drives a fancy car, you are mistaken.

It's Zack and yes he has a big house in Hollywood off of Sunset. I'm sure his car isn't a piece of shit either.

Yes, of course Zack is also charitable.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 09:41 AM
I heard Zack drives a beaten down Volvo or VW or somethin... and he bummed an entire pack of cigarettes off my friend at the Troubadour back in the day.


That better be his living on the street days because who the fuck bums and entire pack?!

paulb
07-15-2010, 09:50 AM
That better be his living on the street days because who the fuck bums and entire pack?!

i was told he kept coming back for a cig or 4 over a few hours...

shermanoaksyo
07-15-2010, 09:54 AM
From what I know, he lives in a house, in east hollywood, and his car is in fact a piece of shit.

He does not live in a mansion and he does not live in one of our very numerous luxury neighborhoods.

For whatever it's worth, he's does actually live an artsy-fartsy/activist/vegetarian/marijuana/spoken word poetry lifestyle that's not super materialistic, at least not by local standards.

choice cat
07-15-2010, 09:57 AM
im just going to keep thinking theres a way im gonna make it into the palladium next friday and catch this epicness ., although the chances are 1 in a 1,000,000 it would seem.

Rosemont17
07-15-2010, 10:16 AM
the first step will be for them to get money for the cause and then take it to the next step if possible....

remember this is a hot topic in washington DC so they are doing it actually in a conserative way to see what happens.... put on a great show and donate all money to a cause... then if necessary go to the more drastic steps like doing guerilla type shows in AZ and taking it to another level..

choice cat
07-15-2010, 10:18 AM
what are ticket sales going to be like ? will they do that bidding type thing where you submit your highest bid and hopefully yours is high enough to get a ticket?

paulb
07-15-2010, 11:03 AM
fuck that one....great idea....just I cant afford 400 for a single ticket

choice cat
07-15-2010, 11:11 AM
that was just how i recall it being done for radiohead at the music box

shermanoaksyo
07-15-2010, 11:34 AM
I don't see Zach structuring this so the price of entry is more than $75 or $100, even if it means they raise less money. A Palladium full of the sliver of L.A. Rage fans who can afford a $400-500 ticket would be an odd sight.

dorkfish
07-15-2010, 11:40 AM
and his car is in fact a piece of shit.
Andrew saw his when they were at 7/11 together. Pretty sure he said it was a BMW.

TheScenestar
07-15-2010, 11:55 AM
From what I know, he lives in a house, in east hollywood, and his car is in fact a piece of shit.

He does not live in a mansion and he does not live in one of our very numerous luxury neighborhoods.

For whatever it's worth, he's does actually live an artsy-fartsy/activist/vegetarian/marijuana/spoken word poetry lifestyle that's not super materialistic, at least not by local standards.

He lives on the Eastside. I see him all the time in Highland Park and Eagle Rock. It's usually a hybrid or his bike he rolls around town in. Last time I ran into him and talked extensively was right after they announced that they won the Christmas single. We talked for a while about what it meant to him and also talked about local politics. He's always around the Eagle Rock area eating at Oinkster, the local pizza spots and hanging out at IMIX. Nice guy and always cool to say what's up. He always goes to the cooks in the back and thanks them for making his food.

Now that that's settled, can't wait till the show goes on sale!

bballarl
07-15-2010, 11:58 AM
Andrew saw his when they were at 7/11 together. Pretty sure he said it was a BMW.

It was an older BMW. Definitely not ultra-luxurious, at least not anymore.

Rosemont17
07-15-2010, 03:53 PM
tix 50 bucks. on sale monday..

http://www.livenation.com/event/090044EF798036F0?artistid=750164&majorcatid=10001&minorcatid=60

bmack86
07-15-2010, 03:59 PM
Oh snap. I might could afford 50

TallGuyCM
07-15-2010, 03:59 PM
Oh shit. YES.

amyzzz
07-15-2010, 04:03 PM
Bump....get ready for a Rage SoundStrike show against the AZ immigrations bill. I'm guessing they will do it in L.A. since they won't do it here where it matters. The strike is garbage but thought I would share this info with you Rage fans.

http://www.billboard.com/news/zack-de-la-rocha-ups-the-rage-against-arizona-1004101033.story




He is wrong though. It is isolating the Arizona fans of any of these bands and promising a huge concert once this law is repealed doesn't help the local art community, venues and promoters who are likely to suffer NOW.

Either way, they will play some shows.
Fuck Zack de la Rocha. I'm glad HE'S not coming here, but I wish he would stop exhorting others to follow suit, the fucking fuck.

ficklecycle
07-15-2010, 04:05 PM
http://www.livenation.com/event/090044EF798036F0?crosssite=TM_US:750164:73794

Ohhh yes.

Good luck to us all.

Rosemont17
07-15-2010, 04:09 PM
typical response AMYZZZ..

1. how would you like it if they fucking ask you for your birth certificate just cuz u may look "not american?"
2. Zack had already said that they took into consideration what would happen if a movement like this would hurt AZ. Answer? he said the people there he had talked to were willing to give up some money as long as they could keep their dignity..

my brother lives in Phoenix and is so fucking upset by this that we are all gonna miss work friday and we are all going to this to show support cuz its bullshit that this is going on!! so i support rage for doing this and doing the show to bring awareness and also raise money for the cause....

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-15-2010, 04:10 PM
Huh. Might as well try! $50, not what i expected.

GeezrRckr
07-15-2010, 04:13 PM
no one would ask for anything of hers because nobody cares.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-15-2010, 04:15 PM
Cop looks at ID..."say, aren't you the one that everybody tells to shut the fuck up?"

Rosemont17
07-15-2010, 04:16 PM
sorry you cant handle a fact u fucking pussy!

GeezrRckr
07-15-2010, 04:17 PM
was that directed at me?

paulb
07-15-2010, 04:18 PM
omgomgomgomgomg, 50 bucks!!! I hope i can score a pair...

seandlr
07-15-2010, 04:24 PM
sorry you cant handle a fact u fucking pussy!
Hey man, mucho take it easy.

corbo
07-15-2010, 04:29 PM
HOLY CRAP I JUST SAW THIS O_O

vinylmartyr
07-15-2010, 04:45 PM
I wonder if you can buy them at the palladium

brokenDREAMS
07-15-2010, 04:48 PM
I wonder if you can buy them at the palladium

I believe the palladium's box office is only open on saturday so probably no. Good luck everyone in getting tickets...

ficklecycle
07-15-2010, 04:49 PM
I wonder if you can buy them at the palladium

Hmm, didn't think of that.

whynotsmile99
07-15-2010, 04:59 PM
argh if only this was on a saturday....night shift :(

shermanoaksyo
07-15-2010, 05:03 PM
I'm glad a lot of crazy rage fans will be able to afford this. If I don't score a ticket, that's OK, 2007 is all I'll ever need.

I fear for Conor Oberst's safety though. Crowded House redux

paulb
07-15-2010, 05:06 PM
Coachella 2007 was truly life changing...def in my top 5 fav shows of all time...I owe it to them that I go every year now...

faxman75
07-15-2010, 05:21 PM
typical response AMYZZZ..

1. how would you like it if they fucking ask you for your birth certificate just cuz u may look "not american?"
2. Zack had already said that they took into consideration what would happen if a movement like this would hurt AZ. Answer? he said the people there he had talked to were willing to give up some money as long as they could keep their dignity..

my brother lives in Phoenix and is so fucking upset by this that we are all gonna miss work friday and we are all going to this to show support cuz its bullshit that this is going on!! so i support rage for doing this and doing the show to bring awareness and also raise money for the cause....


You also have zero understanding of the law if you think the police are allowed to ask anyone who looks 'not american' for their papers. It's simply not true. No matter what Zack has told you. The law states they can ask for papers ONLY during the course of investigating the person for a crime. I'm not going to go through it all with you but this has been discussed intelligently and extensively in the illegal immigration thread. John has posted the links to the bills several times and they have been explained.

In essence, Zack wont' even be raising awareness. He'll be ranting and using shocking language to make his point rather than inform and use facts that could benefit and educate those who have been misguided or confused by the media.

I do NOT support the law but you should at least know what it says before you make comments about people randomly being asked for their birth certificate simply because they don't look american. That's not how it works.

obzen
07-15-2010, 05:40 PM
That may not be how it works, in principle - but you're naive if you think cops don't profile.

Sushov23
07-15-2010, 05:47 PM
You also have zero understanding of the law if you think the police are allowed to ask anyone who looks 'not american' for their papers. It's simply not true. No matter what Zack has told you. The law states they can ask for papers ONLY during the course of investigating the person for a crime. I'm not going to go through it all with you but this has been discussed intelligently and extensively in the illegal immigration thread. John has posted the links to the bills several times and they have been explained.

In essence, Zack wont' even be raising awareness. He'll be ranting and using shocking language to make his point rather than inform and use facts that could benefit and educate those who have been misguided or confused by the media.

I do NOT support the law but you should at least know what it says before you make comments about people randomly being asked for their birth certificate simply because they don't look american. That's not how it works.

Are you really this naive buddy?

faxman75
07-15-2010, 05:50 PM
That may not be how it works, in principle - but you're naive if you think cops don't profile.

Well duh. That happens now already. That's also not the point of this benefit. Cops have always profiled and always will.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 05:56 PM
Are you really this naive buddy?

Educate me. Are we debating what the bill says, how the law is supposed to be enforced or what you speculate might occur once it goes into effect? Those are three different things.

Do I think the law is going to cause cops to start harassing mexicans for no good reason? No more than they already do. Should the state be taking this issue into their own hands? In my opinion no.

Let me ask you this as well. Are you aware that the bill passed, people became outraged and they then changed the bill after the fact to clean up some language and offer more specifics as to how this was going to done? Even simpler. Have you read the bill?

menikmati
07-15-2010, 05:57 PM
Maybe it's just me, but in retrospect, that 2007 rage performance was pretty lackluster.

paulb
07-15-2010, 06:05 PM
what it meant>actual performance

faxman75
07-15-2010, 06:11 PM
Maybe it's just me, but in retrospect, that 2007 rage performance was pretty lackluster.

It didn't match the intensity of any of the mid to late 90's shows I saw. The excitement in the air at Coachella was there. The crowd was 200% into it but the band and the performance itself seemed pretty standard. Definitely not one of my highlights but i'm sort of over this band and have been for a bit. No new material in over a decade and i've seen all of these songs performed multiple times live. This isn't a band that brings a different production every time or does new and exciting things on stage. At least this show will be in a smaller venue.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 06:16 PM
Regarding the law, it's very likely the bill might actually cut down on the current amount of profiling. Most of the police chiefs are against it to begin with and now they are in the midst of hyper training about profiling. IN their training they are being told they are NOW under a microscope and need to take every precaution not to profile. This has never been done in the past.

The feds, human rights watch groups and community leaders geared up with lawyers are just waiting to pounce on a profiling case.

paulb
07-15-2010, 06:27 PM
Renegades of Funk at Coachella 07 the first time they ever performed that....so suck it

GeezrRckr
07-15-2010, 06:31 PM
of the >10x i've seen rage, my favorite is still the very first time when they opened up lolla '93 with "killing in the name of."

(Coach '07 was rad too, but for different reasons...mostly having to do with the growth of Tom as a guitar maestro, which is the main reason why i keep going back for more)

TomServo
07-15-2010, 06:34 PM
My wife and I will definitely be trying for tix to this. About time my hyper-fast internet connection paid off! Ha! Ha! Ha!

Yep, that's maniacal.

bmack86
07-15-2010, 06:35 PM
The law states they can ask for papers ONLY during the course of investigating the person for a crime.


Where did you get this idea? The exact text of the law: FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.

Meaning that as long as the officer isn't making an illegal stop or illegal restraint, they can then move to determine whether a person is an illegal immigrant. No crime has to have occurred or even been suspected. An officer walking down the street who starts talking to someone could theoretically determine, by whatever methods they're supposed use, that there is a reasonable suspicion that the person is unlawfully present. That's one of the (myriad) problems with the language of the law (never mind that it looks like an unconstitutional law to begin with.)

faxman75
07-15-2010, 06:56 PM
This is from HB 2162 which was signed after the outrage of the initial law. Specifically to confront many of the issues people had. This amended the original bill.

Here is the link and you can see the alterations that were made specifically to the language you quoted.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2162c.htm



B. For any lawful STOP, DETENTION OR ARREST made by a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of this state or a law enforcement official or a law enforcement agency of a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF ANY OTHER LAW OR ORDINANCE OF A COUNTY, CITY OR TOWN OR THIS STATE where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who AND is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made, when practicable, to determine the immigration status of the person, except if the determination may hinder or obstruct an investigation. Any person who is arrested shall have the person's immigration status determined before the person is released. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c). A law enforcement official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state may not solely consider race, color or national origin in implementing the requirements of this subsection except to the extent permitted by the United States or Arizona Constitution. A person is presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States if the person provides to the law enforcement officer or agency any of the following:
1. A valid Arizona driver license.
2. A valid Arizona nonoperating identification license.
3. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.
4. If the entity requires proof of legal presence in the United States before issuance, any valid United States federal, state or local government issued identification.

obzen
07-15-2010, 07:00 PM
Maybe it's just me, but in retrospect, that 2007 rage performance was pretty lackluster.

It was chill.

What's strange is that if I remember correctly, the sound level of the first couple of songs was relatively insubstantial - it wasn't until People Of The Sun in a sudden instant the sound became fuller; as if someone had cranked the other PA.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 07:03 PM
I will never forget the fools that climbed up on top of the soundboard riser. I honestly thought people were going to be seriously injured or die. Yes i'm dramatic but god damn they were high up and moving around like crazy up there.

obzen
07-15-2010, 07:06 PM
I had a few good laughs at the lame rumors that all these bros were spreading that weekend leading up to their
set.


Fools got neglected.

bballarl
07-15-2010, 07:07 PM
I just remember people lighting things on fire under the tripod and thinking to myself, "Maybe I should go watch the Lemonheads instead."

obzen
07-15-2010, 07:08 PM
:chucks:

paulb
07-15-2010, 07:11 PM
I will never forget the fools that climbed up on top of the soundboard riser. I honestly thought people were going to be seriously injured or die. Yes i'm dramatic but god damn they were high up and moving around like crazy up there.

ya, i was right next to the soundboard, and I was thinkin too someone was gonna fall through, and land on the PA and shut down the show... thank god that didnt happen...it was a crazy as fuck atmosphere...and hopefully the Palladium, first show in LA in 10 years, intimate, can get some of that vibe

faxman75
07-15-2010, 07:12 PM
When they started I was right behind the soundboard. I was near where the Crane was this year by the time he was doing his anti-government rant. I'm a pussy when it comes to Rage crowds. I feel like i'm surrounded by mostly wild animals who can attack at any time.

faxman75
07-15-2010, 07:13 PM
ya, i was right next to the soundboard, and I was thinkin too someone was gonna fall through, and land on the PA and shut down the show... thank god that didnt happen...it was a crazy as fuck atmosphere...and hopefully the Palladium, first show in LA in 10 years, intimate, can get some of that vibe

I'm sure it will a great show and I can understand the excitement.

Devin the Dude
07-15-2010, 07:50 PM
If they don't play anything new, or promise a new album at the show, this band is dead to me.

lowfront
07-15-2010, 08:25 PM
what a great retrospective

the coachella show to me was the reason why I discovered coachella


omg rage is playing lets go




then i go to coachella and walk into the sahara tent

which completely changed my whole idea of what fun is







rage show wasn't a highlight for me, it was great, everyone in the crowd was wasted exhausted so not much physical energy


but there was an amazing vibe in the air for sure



with only a couple songs left I was standing and someone got whipped into me head first into my back

thought I broke my back and felt like i got hit by lighting. Couldn't move my left arm...was so fucked up i started running out of the crowd looking for emt's. EVERYONE moved right the fuck out of the way for me and a ran through what felt like a mile of people.

got out of crowd, went to tent, passed the fuck out

couldn't move my arm for 2 days, and my back and chest hurt like a fucking bitch.

Now to this day I can still feel something in my rib cage if I sit a certain way for too long.




So ya...after that, the whole mash pit crazy bands just don't do it for me anymore

love rage

but they are old and pretty dead to me

JustSteve
07-15-2010, 08:28 PM
you sound like the one that is old and dead...suck it up, grandpa. ;)

TallGuyCM
07-15-2010, 10:36 PM
Renegades of Funk at Coachella 07 the first time they ever performed that....so suck it

Ooooh, they played the shittiest song in their catalog live at Coachella?

paulb
07-15-2010, 10:43 PM
I dont think they play it every show, cause it failed so badly live .... now Maggies Farm would be bad ass....

bmack86
07-15-2010, 10:43 PM
Yikes. Watch the Afrikaa Baambaataa rips, Chris. There were many worse songs on Renegades, and they had songs that weren't as good on Evil Empire.

getbetter
07-15-2010, 10:44 PM
that can't be their worse song

bmack86
07-15-2010, 10:51 PM
Agreed. It's a good song and they do a decent interpretation.

Their Devo cover was pretty horrid.

paulb
07-15-2010, 10:54 PM
Their set at Lollapalooza 08 was much better than the Coachella set, and the crowd was equally great....but nothing can replace the chills of seeing Zack for the first time in years walkin onstage on the big screens, and the audience seriously being one entity....

TallGuyCM
07-15-2010, 10:56 PM
Whatever. I refuse to like a "Rage" song that has a guitar lick in the chorus that sounds like Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?".

obzen
07-15-2010, 11:13 PM
Darkness Of Greed, Autologic, No Shelter - strike three, you're out. Suck my dick, bitch.


Rock & Roll.

bmack86
07-15-2010, 11:18 PM
Whatever. I refuse to like a "Rage" song that has a guitar lick in the chorus that sounds like Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy?".

Chris, you really need to listen to Gilberto Gil y Jorge Ben's track Taj Mahal. You'll rethink the Rod Stewart statement, and I'm sure Tom Morello knew that track.

bballarl
07-15-2010, 11:19 PM
Whammy pedal.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-16-2010, 12:25 AM
Their Devo cover was pretty horrid.

I totally disagree. That;s a fucking fearless cover. They turned a very uplifting happy summer song into a fucking unpleasant, haunting track, and did it well. That's easily my favorite song on that album.

GeezrRckr
07-16-2010, 01:22 AM
mine is "I'm Housing." so badass. my favorite live jam from Renegades is "Ghost...."

this is gonna be fierce.

suprefan
07-16-2010, 08:00 AM
All of Faxmans posts should be moved to the Faxman Facts thread, since thats what they are....

shermanoaksyo
07-16-2010, 10:08 AM
It looks like Faxman has at least read the bill. Most of you are talking out of your ass. "YALL HATE MEXICANS, DURRRR."

You're missing the point. It's not about the legislation. It's about the legislation's intent. Brewer & friends are intentionally trying to give a nice stroke to racist right-wingers who vote.

The side effect, intended or not, is that they've intimidated and scared latinos all over the country. Including in California where they have lots of political power. Latinos and their political allies of all races in CA are responding with boycotts and a pretty impressive campaign vilifying AZ.

I admire the AZ posters' love for their hometowns. I'm addicted to local pride. I get it. But if you're defending this thing you are joining, or at least softly supporting, a side that's picked a losing battle [via demography].

Thanks to this bill, AZ is now synonymous with anti-mexican racism the way Arkansas is synonymous with Jim Crow-era segregation. It's a shitty situation. I were passionate about Arizona, I'd get into the business of working to overturn the law.

shermanoaksyo
07-16-2010, 10:14 AM
As for Renegades, wasn't that released without their permission/supervision? Some label thing? Too lazy too google

Gribbz
07-16-2010, 10:18 AM
I've lived Arizona for a considerable amount of time... I know how it is here. I do not support SB1070. I also do not support the idea of alienating voters in Arizona who can actually enact change in the law. That's what bands like Rage Against The Machine and Connor Oberst are doing. Alienating.







Connor Oberst can stay out tho.

GuyInTucson
07-16-2010, 10:38 AM
You're missing the point. It's not about the legislation. It's about the legislation's intent. Brewer & friends are intentionally trying to give a nice stroke to racist right-wingers who vote.

The side effect, intended or not, is that they've intimidated and scared latinos all over the country. Including in California where they have lots of political power. Latinos and their political allies of all races in CA are responding with boycotts and a pretty impressive campaign vilifying AZ.

I admire the AZ posters' love for their hometowns. I'm addicted to local pride. I get it. But if you're defending this thing you are joining, or at least softly supporting, a side that's picked a losing battle [via demography].

Thanks to this bill, AZ is now synonymous with anti-mexican racism the way Arkansas is synonymous with Jim Crow-era segregation. It's a shitty situation. I were passionate about Arizona, I'd get into the business of working to overturn the law.

Are you kidding me? I am liberal originally from NorCal and FULLY support this law.

The people who are getting riled up over it are the ones that are uneducated and easily persuaded. Don't give me the fighting a losing battle bullshit either. EVERY national poll taken points to the fact that most Americans support the bill.

The reason people are getting scared is because they are blindly following political leaders who are doing nothing but pandering to those that will continue to vote them into office. It's simple... if you read it, tell me specifically what is the problem in the bill itself.

Otherwise people are opposing it for no real reason of their own.

I am not a Brewer fan and will not vote for her, but how is what republicans doing any different than the politicians getting the ignorant sheep to follow every gripe they have about the bill?


Bmack tried to point out the literature that makes it look racist, but the word "reasonable" seperates that. What is this law changing? What was going to stop a racist law enforcement officer from stopping and harrassing someone they determine is illegal before sb 1070 starts being enforced? This law is already on the books. The racist cops were racist before AZ sb1070 and the law was passed. So what's this really changing? Not a damn thing.

It's giving people that like to bitch, something to bitch about. It's giving politicians on both sides the ability to grandstand, which they will take at every opportunity.

Politicians are all over the place with this. Obama supposedly opposes it but is sending troops there. McCain supported amnesty years ago and now is this advocate against illegal immigration. It's one big giant joke and these politicians are stringing most of you along.

Tell my friend who got T-boned by a truck driven by an illegal six years ago that did over $6,000 damage to her car and had to spend two weeks in the hospital this should be overturned.

Medical and auto insurance only cover so much and this guy obviously couldn't help.

This is one of those subjects where people shot first and asked questions later.

Again, I am a DEMOCRAT and I SUPPORT this law. It should have been enforced to begin with.

bmack86
07-16-2010, 11:06 AM
Bmack tried to point out the literature that makes it look racist, but the word "reasonable" seperates that. What is this law changing? What was going to stop a racist law enforcement officer from stopping and harrassing someone they determine is illegal before sb 1070 starts being enforced? This law is already on the books. The racist cops were racist before AZ sb1070 and the law was passed. So what's this really changing? Not a damn thing.

Incorrect. I was not suggesting anything to do with race in regards to the law. Rather, that the original language allowed for officers to ascertain immigration status during routine, non-crime-related activities where they would have little reason to do so. While the changes made in the amendment somewhat address this, it still seems to me that they are requiring the officers to make judgment calls that they personally should not be making. My dad is a police officer in California, and he said that if they had any issues with someone's immigration status, they would contact INS.

And that's the real problem. This is changing something in that it is now a state crime to be an illegal immigrant. It's not a state crime in 49 other states, because it's a federal issue. Otherwise, your standing with the law would be unclear when you cross state borders, and there would be myriad confusion. This is an issue that a state should not be acting on.

Personally, I think Arizona is fully aware of this, and I think that part of the reason they passed this bill was to force the federal issue. By passing their law, which on its face seems unconstitutional because it is delegating federal power to the states via a state action in addition to potential conflicts with the equal protection clause that can be raised, they are forcing the federal government to acknowledge their action and raising this as a large issue. We're all aware that the current immigration approach taken by the US is flawed and needs serious reform. My guess is that Arizona is attempting to push the Fed's hand and force them to deal with the issue sooner rather than later.

bmack86
07-16-2010, 11:08 AM
Also, how would the use of this law have changed what happened in your friend's situation?She still would have been hit and he still would not have been in a position to financially compensate her for the accident he caused. Deporting him isn't going to make your friend heal.

faxman75
07-16-2010, 11:50 AM
Now we are on the same page. I agree with you 100%, Bmack. There are plenty of reasons to be opposed to the law and you listed exactly why I am opposed to it but when Rosemont starts saying




1. how would you like it if they fucking ask you for your birth certificate just cuz u may look "not american?"


That's more than a gross exaggeration. They aren't running around looking for people who just appear to be Mexican and asking them for their papers. They plan on asking people who are being investigated for a crime if they are citizens. Another concern I have is how much of a distraction will this be during the course of the actually criminal investigation. I can see things getting messy and real police resources being strained. Profiling was the initial concern but I think that's the least of the issues I have with the bill at this point. Like I said earlier in this thread I wouldn't be surprised if less profiling exists as a result of the scrutiny and microscope the cops will be under. The police departments do not want lawsuits or to waste time and money on investigating their cops who are accused of these actions. Can you imagine what will happen to the police force if a bunch of illegitimate lawsuits erupt? Not to mention the few that may be legit.

paulb
07-16-2010, 01:03 PM
why would anyone be against law enforcement checking if people are American or Mexican during a crimnal act? If I did something illegal, and they found out I was Canadian and here illegally, id expect to get my ass shipped back to Canada....whats the big deal?

bmack86
07-16-2010, 01:07 PM
My dad is a police officer in California, and he said that if they had any issues with someone's immigration status, they would contact INS.

And that's the real problem. This is changing something in that it is now a state crime to be an illegal immigrant. It's not a state crime in 49 other states, because it's a federal issue. Otherwise, your standing with the law would be unclear when you cross state borders, and there would be myriad confusion. This is an issue that a state should not be acting on.


A few posts above.

getbetter
07-16-2010, 01:27 PM
there's more than Mexicans sneaking across the boarder through mexico.I wonder if Montana or any other boarding state with Canadian had a law like this that it would get as much bitching and moaning plus a RATM Show in LA as protest.

anyone going to the One day as a lion show in Pomona tomorrow?

faxman75
07-16-2010, 01:39 PM
It's really kind of silly to bring up the minuscule amount of Canadians that sneak over the boarder. Not kind of silly. It's actually ridiculous. People trickle across boarders around the world illegally. We are talking about an influx of millions. The real issues are how much of a drain are they on our resources, how much crime do they commit and other societal and environmental impacts of their immigration.

The fact of the matter is, this only becomes a hot bed issue when politicians make it as such. Mexicans had to view the amnesty granted back in the 80's up to that point as welcome mat and they see the border as a gateway to opportunity. Every president for the past 30 years has promised immigration reform, including Obama. So far none of them have followed through which is why I think Brian and many others are exactly right when they say Arizona passed this law to force the federal governments hand.

menikmati
07-16-2010, 01:39 PM
I still have a Sunday One Day As A Lion ticket I'm trying to get rid of.

faxman75
07-16-2010, 01:46 PM
why would anyone be against law enforcement checking if people are American or Mexican during a crimnal act? If I did something illegal, and they found out I was Canadian and here illegally, id expect to get my ass shipped back to Canada....whats the big deal?

I'm not sure what the big deal is. I think it's simply a lack of understanding for the most part. Outside of the debate of who should be enforcing immigration laws, if someone is in this country illegally and committing crimes, they should absolutely be deported after serving their sentence out.

The problem is both the politicians and the media seem promote the confusion on the issue. There are still plenty of people who believe mexicans can be stopped on the street just for being brown and asked to prove their citizenship. Much like the healthcare bill, the confusion comes from the media and the politicians who don't always have a clear understanding of the bills and laws and the ones that do don't get as much of the coverage. The 24/7 networks just want to show people arguing all day (right up my alley I suppose), and the politicians are just spinning until their dizzy. Go youtube John McCain's opinions on immigration. Those are downright hilarious to watch. He's even changed his mind since he was running for President. I think much of the populace is developing their opinion on the issue based on where they are getting the information.

GeezrRckr
07-16-2010, 01:51 PM
All of Faxmans posts should be moved to the Faxman Facts thread, since thats what they are....
that, and it's really fucking annoying what's going on in this thread. seriously, take this to the non-music lounge for fuck's sake.

WhyTheLongFace
07-16-2010, 01:55 PM
Monday @ 10am...$50
Livenation

getbetter
07-16-2010, 02:01 PM
that's been posted alot all over the board man but thanks for refresh

WhyTheLongFace
07-16-2010, 02:04 PM
I kinda just wanted to get this back to Rage

paulb
07-16-2010, 02:11 PM
9cfL7cPvIlA

Id love for this to go down at the Palladium

bmack86
07-16-2010, 02:19 PM
It'd be cool if they switched up the set list from the first reunion shows.

ficklecycle
07-16-2010, 02:28 PM
What if Rage covers a Bright Eyes song?

5aZh261KZWI

faxman75
07-16-2010, 02:38 PM
that, and it's really fucking annoying what's going on in this thread. seriously, take this to the non-music lounge for fuck's sake.

yeah, fuck learning about the bill and fuck laws and discussion...Ragerrrrr grrrr!


I think this proves my point about the average fan not giving a fuck about the issue. I think it was a good and informative discussion as there were obviously people who weren't aware of everything surrounding the law. You know the one that this benefit is specifically about? Carry on though. The intent wasn't to ruin your fun you cranky bastard. lol Rage and politics are kinda in bed together.

faxman75
07-16-2010, 03:00 PM
Rage in Mexico 2006.

0lP0QxX-48U

Blinken
07-16-2010, 03:01 PM
For $50 I am in, just hope I can pull a ticket.

seandlr
07-16-2010, 05:14 PM
Rage in Mexico 2006.

0lP0QxX-48U
Definitely not 2006. Looks like 1999- 2001.

Devin the Dude
07-16-2010, 05:22 PM
Yeah, there is zero chance that they played a show during their hiatus. Sorry factsy.

Also, this thread fucking blows now. Y'all have yer own thread to talk about racist cops. Go dere.

TheScenestar
07-16-2010, 05:27 PM
anyone going to the One day as a lion show in Pomona tomorrow?

Hey Guize!

We can talk about that here homie:

http://www.coachella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42102

Mr. Porter
07-16-2010, 06:30 PM
since i'm a stupid mothafucka...is this general admission?

getbetter
07-16-2010, 06:36 PM
yes

i decided if i am able to get two tickets I'm bring my pops.LOL he's going trip out on crowd going insane.I was going bring him to dead weather but i rather use that money for chance to get RATM.


hey scenestar are you going do a contest for RATM tickets???(I'm joking i'm sure if u had extra there going to your friends)

cormaic
07-16-2010, 08:09 PM
yes

i decided if i am able to get two tickets I'm bring my pops.


Doing the same thing. If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have all those memories of driving with him to his baseball tournaments in Arizona while I listened to the Self Titled album and sang in the backseat while censoring the cuss words. I kinda owe it to him.

obzen
07-16-2010, 08:26 PM
Top 5 Rage Against The Machine jams:

1. Down Rodeo
2. No Shelter
3. Bullet In The Head
4. Bulls On Parade
5. Darkness Of Greed

cormaic
07-16-2010, 08:28 PM
Township Rebellion.

obzen
07-16-2010, 08:33 PM
What about that, sucka?

brokenDREAMS
07-16-2010, 09:34 PM
Seems like livenation has updated their info on the palladium show. The show will be a paperless ticket event and they also expanded the price of the show $50-$100. I assume the $100 will be the "VIP" tables on the upper level?

ficklecycle
07-16-2010, 09:37 PM
I don't get why it's called paperless if those little machines print something out anyway.

FoxeyLady
07-16-2010, 09:37 PM
Top 5 Rage Against The Machine jams:

1. Down Rodeo
2. No Shelter
3. Bullet In The Head
4. Bulls On Parade
5. Darkness Of Greed

Fuck yeah.

TheScenestar
07-17-2010, 11:15 AM
yes

i decided if i am able to get two tickets I'm bring my pops.LOL he's going trip out on crowd going insane.I was going bring him to dead weather but i rather use that money for chance to get RATM.


hey scenestar are you going do a contest for RATM tickets???(I'm joking i'm sure if u had extra there going to your friends)

No contests. I wish!

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:35 AM
Sales to this event will be restricted to residents of Los Angeles and Orange Counties. Residency will be based on credit card billing address. Orders by resid.ents outside Los Angeles and Orange Counties will be canceled without notice and refunds given



DAMN IT!

WHO WANTS TO GET ME 2 TIX? I can Paypal money, give you #s to some ticketbastard gift cards i have, pay you when i see you, whatever...you tell me.

bmack86
07-17-2010, 11:40 AM
wow, that makes it more accessible. And I actually have the card I wanted to use on my LA address.

JustSteve
07-17-2010, 11:41 AM
so riverside and ventura county are sol?

Gribbz
07-17-2010, 11:43 AM
Sales to this event will be restricted to residents of Los Angeles and Orange Counties. Residency will be based on credit card billing address. Orders by residents outside Los Angeles and Orange Counties will be canceled without notice and refunds given

Brilliant.

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:43 AM
why would anyone be against law enforcement checking if people are American or Mexican during a crimnal act? If I did something illegal, and they found out I was Canadian and here illegally, id expect to get my ass shipped back to Canada....whats the big deal?

the big deal is that they don't ask everyone. they are only required to ask "if the persons citizenship status is questionable".

how do they determine that their status is questionable? they have an accent? the color of their skin? they have different customs?

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:44 AM
so riverside and ventura county are sol?

are those part of the Orange Counties? they pluralized it...so i assume there must be multiple counties that are part of the "orange counties"?

GeezrRckr
07-17-2010, 11:45 AM
fuck...although i totally understand the intention of that policy, it just slays me. if anyone ends up getting a +1, and is feeling generous, i would be so, so happy if you would please consider this old-skool Rage fan. i will gladly take care of your dinner, beers and herb at the show.

sadly...i think this will be met with crickets. sigh.

JustSteve
07-17-2010, 11:46 AM
are those part of the Orange Counties? they pluralized it...so i assume there must be multiple counties that are part of the "orange counties"?

haha, no, orange county is just orange county...

and geezr - since i am only going for one ticket for myself i can def. try and get a second. keep your eyes posted here right at 10am on monday and if i can pull two i will post here that i have the extra and we can confirm the deal. that work?

Gribbz
07-17-2010, 11:47 AM
Didn't Zack invite Arizonans to come join the protest/show? How is that possible if they can't purchase tickets?

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:49 AM
yeah, ur screwed then steve. that sux...

and i'm totally serious about someone getting an extra two tix (for me and a buddy). and to sweeten the deal a little further...if i'm able to attend this show, it will be recorded.

JustSteve
07-17-2010, 11:49 AM
oh, i'm in orange county, so i'm good :)

although, i'm sure zack holds a certain disdain for the area since he went to high school/lived in irvine where many of his political views have been shaped by his negative experiences.

a quote from wiki, but assume it is legit: "Zack described Irvine as "one of the most racist cities imaginable. If you were a Mexican in Irvine, you were there because you had a broom or a hammer in your hand."

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:50 AM
Didn't Zack invite Arizonans to come join the protest/show? How is that possible if they can't purchase tickets?

when did he ever "invite" AZ? i thought he was trying to keep us as far away from the rest of the country as possible, as well as keep the rest of the country away from AZ...

ficklecycle
07-17-2010, 11:50 AM
That's brutal....

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:52 AM
oh, i'm in orange county, so i'm good :)

lucky ass. one of the few times I actually wish i had an LA address...

Gribbz
07-17-2010, 11:52 AM
when did he ever "invite" AZ? i thought he was trying to keep us as far away from the rest of the country as possible, as well as keep the rest of the country away from AZ...

Thought I read it in that interview he gave recently... perhaps not.

sin213
07-17-2010, 11:55 AM
hmmm, dunno. i haven't heard anything like that, but doesn't mean its not true.

still lookin for a volunteer to grab a pair for me. tell me what you need to make it happen.

JustSteve
07-17-2010, 11:57 AM
i will try for geezr and i can try for you, too. just not sure if there is a 2 ticket limit or not. if it's possible to try for more i will! keep an eye here monday at 10am!

JustSteve
07-17-2010, 11:57 AM
off to the one day as a lion show!

sin213
07-17-2010, 12:04 PM
will do! have fun at the show tonight. ask zach for some guest spots at the ratm show! ;)

TheScenestar
07-17-2010, 12:12 PM
will do! have fun at the show tonight. ask zach for some guest spots at the ratm show! ;)

That might not happen. For most fundraisers and benefits, guests still have to pay. We did for Radiohead and QOTSA recently. The benefit for guests is they don't have to have quick finger ticket buying skillz, mostly internal.

WhyTheLongFace
07-17-2010, 12:15 PM
fuck...although i totally understand the intention of that policy, it just slays me. if anyone ends up getting a +1, and is feeling generous, i would be so, so happy if you would please consider this old-skool Rage fan. i will gladly take care of your dinner, beers and herb at the show.

sadly...i think this will be met with crickets. sigh.

No promises. But I will try

sin213
07-17-2010, 12:16 PM
That might not happen. For most fundraisers and benefits, guests still have to pay. We did for Radiohead and QOTSA recently. The benefit for guests is they don't have to have quick finger ticket buying skillz, mostly internal.

i'm more than willing to pay. just lookin for the opportunity to be there...

GeezrRckr
07-17-2010, 12:19 PM
i will try for geezr.

wow, thanks very much Steve. i wish you much luck.

paulb
07-17-2010, 12:20 PM
Good, hopefully this reduces scalpers.... I hope I can get a pair... Jason, if for whatever reason Jenny doesnt want to go, ill let you know....but dont hold your breath...Im not feeling too confident getting tix will be a walk in the park

GeezrRckr
07-17-2010, 12:20 PM
No promises. But I will try
and to you too, friend!

sin213
07-17-2010, 12:25 PM
yeah, tix will be gone in less than a min or two, pauly. good luck.

tigermilkboy
07-17-2010, 12:50 PM
"Sales to this event will be restricted to residents of Los Angeles and Orange Counties. Residency will be based on credit card billing address. Orders by resid.ents outside Los Angeles and Orange Counties will be canceled without notice and refunds given"

Not sure that is a great policy to have.

paulb
07-17-2010, 01:30 PM
Ticket prices now 50-100 bucks? 100 for vip or something?