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chairmenmeow47
07-28-2008, 11:04 AM
so did anyone watch the season 2 premiere of mad men last night? i watched, but kept falling asleep. i saw betty in PANTS and what was that business with the guy in the car? that was kinda strange. also, who did don send the book to? was it his bitch in the city?

anyways, just glad it's back!!!

captncrzy
07-28-2008, 11:19 AM
I have the entire first season on my DVR since I never watched it but heard goog things about it. I forgot the premier was on last night. I'm sure they rerun it...I'm gonna need to go home and record it.

chairmenmeow47
07-28-2008, 11:28 AM
it didn't seem like there was much promotion for the new season. i just-so-happened to watch die hard late saturday and saw a commercial for it on a&e, which is odd since it's an amc show. i love it. don draper is so dreamy in that old fashioned "i'm going to be an alcoholic womanizer" sort of way, lol.

Hopeless Semantic
07-28-2008, 11:31 AM
I caught the first few episodes of the series, but then I lost track and got busy. I liked the pilot episode when they had the kid run around with the plastic bag over his/her head and the parents just scold them for running in the house.

locachica73
07-28-2008, 11:35 AM
i have never heard of mad men but i do like some of the other a&e series. I am all stuck on The Cleaner, good show and Benjamin Bratt is yummy.

Hopeless Semantic
07-28-2008, 11:38 AM
I loved the fact that they had full bars in their offices. If I had one of those, I would've probably had cirhossis of the liver.

sonofhal
07-28-2008, 12:28 PM
I enjoyed the first season. I even got the LTD edition dvd, shaped like a giant zippo.

http://images.play.com/covers/5537129x.jpg

Blinken
07-28-2008, 01:12 PM
I have been thinking about checking this show out, just haven't got around to it yet.

tessalasset
07-28-2008, 01:28 PM
it didn't seem like there was much promotion for the new season. i just-so-happened to watch die hard late saturday and saw a commercial for it on a&e, which is odd since it's an amc show. i love it. don draper is so dreamy in that old fashioned "i'm going to be an alcoholic womanizer" sort of way, lol.

weird i saw a TON of promo for this in the past couple weeks. i was watching a league of their own yesterday (prob on amc) and it was in every single commercial.

chairmenmeow47
07-28-2008, 01:31 PM
sorry, i meant promotion outside amc. i don't watch amc outside of madmen or an occasional movie recording, so it's just strange to me i haven't seen the black, white and red advertisements anywhere.

HowToDisappear
10-27-2008, 04:30 PM
PMmOw31oiI4&hl
Love this.

Hopeless Semantic
10-27-2008, 04:39 PM
*Spoiler alert*

Loved the ending to the 2nd season...the whole Pete/Jody pregnancy segment really surprised me because I had forgot they had something already. The pending merger really has Don wondering about his future and that was prior to getting the news his wife was pregnant again. Whoops...if you haven't seen this don't read this.

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 04:41 PM
on one hand, i see why telling pete would make him stop fantasizing about her. it's irritating when people put you on a "perfect pedastal" like that without really knowing who you are.

but on the other hand, that was a fucking dick thing to say. if you're going to do something like that, you never tell the guy.

and what's up with betty's new baby? that was kinda random. wonder where they're going to go with that.

Hopeless Semantic
10-27-2008, 04:45 PM
on one hand, i see why telling pete would make him stop fantasizing about her. it's irritating when people put you on a "perfect pedastal" like that without really knowing who you are.

but on the other hand, that was a fucking dick thing to say. if you're going to do something like that, you never tell the guy.

and what's up with betty's new baby? that was kinda random. wonder where they're going to go with that.

Would you have rather had it come out to you 18 or so years on down the line? I think it was kinda crass for the setting in which it was disclosed, but he kinda deserves it for being a douche towards his wife and all that. It is surprising with Betty...I don't know how that will affect Don's longing to be closer to the real Mrs. Draper...and Cali.

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 04:47 PM
Would you have rather had it come out to you 18 or so years on down the line? I think it was kinda crass for the setting in which it was disclosed, but he kinda deserves it for being a douche towards his wife and all that. It is surprising with Betty...I don't know how that will affect Don's longing to be closer to the real Mrs. Draper...and Cali.

i would rather she would have aborted the baby instead of passing it off to her sister.

but in that situation, if you're going to completely lie about being pregnant to the guy's face, spend all that time in the hospital, give the baby to your sister, ect. why the fuck would you TELL THE GUY two years in or whatever? either tell him when he has a choice to do something about it or never tell him at all. yes, the guy's being a dick to his wife, but she's making the situation WAY more confusing by telling him after he can do anything about it.

tessalasset
10-27-2008, 04:48 PM
i'll put this in here since noone gave a shit in the upcoming shows thread:



10/21 -
Just got back from a live Mad Men revue at the El Rey. Fucking awesome. A bunch of guys and gals from the show came out and sang songs and danced for the audience. They had cocktail waitresses walking around with glasses of twenty-year-old scotch and handmade cuban cigars. Paul Kinsey on the show played the acoustic guitar and played Don't Think Twice by Dylan and he was actually pretty bad but super cute. Salvatore Romano sang this old song called Sway and had a bunch of cute dancers with him. He has a good voice. Cooper sang some old song and was pretty horrible but funny. He is a ham. At one point in the night he came up to me rolling his eyes, talking about how you should never be an actor. Colin Hanks and Dar Williams played some awesome song together to close out the show and all the other actors came out on stage and sang with them. Trudy Campbell sang some song about Daddy and writhed around on the stage seductively. Bad voice but good stage presence. She seems super young. Rachel Menken looked gorgeous and glamorous and sang a song on her own. Duck sang Aint it a Kick in the Head. Inara George from Bird and the Bee sang Manhattan, randomly. And an orchestra played the Mad Men theme song. It was a really random but rad show overall. Salvatore and Paul are totally cute. Oh and Ken Cosgrove was there and totally unshaven with a thick beard. And Joan was there looking TOTALLY the part. Exactly like she looks on the show. Except her hair is thinner - makes me think she wears a wig. Totally walks the walk and looks the part. And this dude was there who I was CONVINCED was iron and wine and I was staring at him all night and finally went up to him at the end of the show and asked if his name was Sam and he said no and I was embarrassed. Also a very pregnant Jennifer Garner was there in jeans and a tshirt and sneakers when the rest of the audience was black tie. Kinda funny.

Hopeless Semantic
10-27-2008, 04:50 PM
I see what you mean, Ivy. Again, this is a totally different era than the one in which we reside in. I can't imagine, though, all the grief she had to go through carrying a married man's seed in her and then having to give it to her sister to raise. She kept that a secret from Pete and the rest of them so well when it could've been front page news. As for being told, I can see where the whole disclosing when relevance can be had--is something I'd wish for.

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 04:58 PM
that sounds like a lot of fun, tessa! all the "behind the scenes" stuff makes me think it must be a fun show to work on; especially getting to play with the era like that. how lucky you got to go :)

and hopeless, i don't think she really wanted to be his baby mama. like she said, she probably could have, but she didn't. she wants power. she wants a career. she said her prayers and went to sleep instead of balling into her pillow that she lost her chance with pete and her baby. and while she enjoys men, she is definitely NOT a husband hunter like the others.

she's more like joan, only joan seems to fight it. joan seems to be on the fence as to whether she wants a husband or a career, but i think she's slowly realizing she just wasn't cut out for marriage like most of the other girls are, especially once joan got a taste of doing some of the "real work" on that television project for awhile. joan i think falls into the trap of many hot women though in that it's much easier to just fall back on your looks and play the cute girl role to get what you want, whereas peggy never really had those advantages and therefore tries to fight the system more. and they are both taking from each other's strengths this season. peggy is starting to use her feminiminty to her advantage, while joan is starting to be her own person more. peggy and joan are more like "one of the guys" in the respect that they have ambitions and aren't afraid to go after them independently.

Hopeless Semantic
10-27-2008, 05:00 PM
I see a huge conflict between Don and Duck next season, though. They really don't care for each other and they kind've left it alone for the majority of the season.

Mr.Nipples
10-27-2008, 05:01 PM
http://z.about.com/d/tvdramas/1/0/F/U/madmen-chrishend.jpg

HowToDisappear
10-27-2008, 05:21 PM
I read in a blog (can't remember which one) that says the show's creator, Mark Weiner, said in an interview that Peggy's sister does not have the baby and that it really was given up for adoption out there, somewhere.

Anyone notice Pete with the shotgun at the end?

The Mad Men Revue sounds fun, Tessa. Did you take pictures?

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 05:24 PM
I read in a blog (can't remember which one) that says the show's creator, Mark Weiner, said in an interview that Peggy's sister does not have the baby and that it really was given up for adoption out there, somewhere.

Anyone notice Pete with the shotgun at the end?

interesting you bring that up! i wasn't sure what she meant by "giving it away" last night either. i had thought it was with peggy's sister, and they certainly implied that to be the case. i want to know how well thought out that was ahead of time, because they did a really poor job of explaining that situation.

and i noticed the shotgun too, very strange.

kitt kat
10-27-2008, 05:28 PM
My teacher is a producer on the show, and my only real complaint with it is how sexist it can get. (Even though it IS a period piece, and all.)

So one day, my roommate and I were talking with him and I accidentally dropped that and he gave a big sigh and a "Oh, I've tried to fix that."

:(

HowToDisappear
10-27-2008, 05:30 PM
and i noticed the shotgun too, very strange.

Well, if you were in his situation, you might feel like blowing your head off at that moment, too.

But, nah, ain't gonna happen. It'll be interesting to see next season, how well they work, or don't work, together...if he's going to get vengeful or not.

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 05:36 PM
Well, if you were in his situation, you might feel like blowing your head off at that moment, too.

But, nah, ain't gonna happen. It'll be interesting to see next season, how well they work, or don't work, together...if he's going to get vengeful or not.

no, no, no, i mean, i get why he would be stressed about it, but why does he have a SHOTGUN in his office?! just seems, odd. oh, and peter will probably just hold the secret over peggy's head like he does don. everyone saw that peggy was heavier at one point and pete could very well use that against her. who would really believe her if she said it was his anyways?

and yeah, the sexism is annoying, but i like it to show how people used to be. even when i worked at radioshack, i was amazed at the way people would treat me just because i was a young girl at an electronics store. i was the first female salesperson in that store and man, was that difficult. i can't imagine how annoying that would have been back then.

but i do feel a lot of the periodness of the show in general is a bit heavy handed. like i understand everyone talking about the cuban missle crisis, but some of the other stuff is too much. we get it, it's the early 60s!!!

HowToDisappear
10-27-2008, 05:37 PM
My teacher is a producer on the show, and my only real complaint with it is how sexist it can get. (Even though it IS a period piece, and all.)

So one day, my roommate and I were talking with him and I accidentally dropped that and he gave a big sigh and a "Oh, I've tried to fix that."

:(

So if they remove the sexism per your sage advice and ruin the show, we've got you to blame, right?

HowToDisappear
10-27-2008, 05:44 PM
no, no, no, i mean, i get why he would be stressed about it, but why does he have a SHOTGUN in his office?! just seems, odd. oh, and peter will probably just hold the secret over peggy's head like he does don. everyone saw that peggy was heavier at one point and pete could very well use that against her. who would really believe her if she said it was his anyways?

and yeah, the sexism is annoying, but i like it to show how people used to be. even when i worked at radioshack, i was amazed at the way people would treat me just because i was a young girl at an electronics store. i was the first female salesperson in that store and man, was that difficult. i can't imagine how annoying that would have been back then.

but i do feel a lot of the periodness of the show in general is a bit heavy handed. like i understand everyone talking about the cuban missle crisis, but some of the other stuff is too much. we get it, it's the early 60s!!!

The shotgun had something to do with a client in the first season.

I don't find the sexism heavy-handed at all --- it's real and appropriate for the time period. (I'm old - I was born in the early 60's.) What gets to me really is all the smoking...it's like okay I get it, people used to be able to smoke indoors, enough already, stop. Funny the things that bug you.

captncrzy
10-27-2008, 07:12 PM
i'll put this in here since noone gave a shit in the upcoming shows thread:



10/21 -
Just got back from a live Mad Men revue at the El Rey. Fucking awesome. A bunch of guys and gals from the show came out and sang songs and danced for the audience. They had cocktail waitresses walking around with glasses of twenty-year-old scotch and handmade cuban cigars. Paul Kinsey on the show played the acoustic guitar and played Don't Think Twice by Dylan and he was actually pretty bad but super cute. Salvatore Romano sang this old song called Sway and had a bunch of cute dancers with him. He has a good voice. Cooper sang some old song and was pretty horrible but funny. He is a ham. At one point in the night he came up to me rolling his eyes, talking about how you should never be an actor. Colin Hanks and Dar Williams played some awesome song together to close out the show and all the other actors came out on stage and sang with them. Trudy Campbell sang some song about Daddy and writhed around on the stage seductively. Bad voice but good stage presence. She seems super young. Rachel Menken looked gorgeous and glamorous and sang a song on her own. Duck sang Aint it a Kick in the Head. Inara George from Bird and the Bee sang Manhattan, randomly. And an orchestra played the Mad Men theme song. It was a really random but rad show overall. Salvatore and Paul are totally cute. Oh and Ken Cosgrove was there and totally unshaven with a thick beard. And Joan was there looking TOTALLY the part. Exactly like she looks on the show. Except her hair is thinner - makes me think she wears a wig. Totally walks the walk and looks the part. And this dude was there who I was CONVINCED was iron and wine and I was staring at him all night and finally went up to him at the end of the show and asked if his name was Sam and he said no and I was embarrassed. Also a very pregnant Jennifer Garner was there in jeans and a tshirt and sneakers when the rest of the audience was black tie. Kinda funny.

That is fucking AWESOME. You get to do the coolest things...


I read in a blog (can't remember which one) that says the show's creator, Mark Weiner, said in an interview that Peggy's sister does not have the baby and that it really was given up for adoption out there, somewhere.

Anyone notice Pete with the shotgun at the end?

The Mad Men Revue sounds fun, Tessa. Did you take pictures?

You're right; Peggy's sister was pregnant when Peggy was in the hospital having her baby.


The shotgun had something to do with a client in the first season.

I don't find the sexism heavy-handed at all --- it's real and appropriate for the time period. (I'm old - I was born in the early 60's.) What gets to me really is all the smoking...it's like okay I get it, people used to be able to smoke indoors, enough already, stop. Funny the things that bug you.

C'mon, people, yes it's heavy handed but that's the way it was. My mom and her friend were just talking about when they worked at the bank together in 1969 that they all smoked all day long like chimneys. They didn't know how dangerous it was back then, so everyone just did it.

chairmenmeow47
10-27-2008, 07:45 PM
don't get me wrong, i appreciate the sexism, as well as the smoking, and the drinking, and the missile crisis, and the introduction of nuclear warfare, ect....

i just think it can be heavy-handed in the overall IT'S THE EARLY 1960s portrayal. it's gotten better towards the end of this season, but earlier this season it was a bit much. especially with the kennedy obsession.

as i said in another thread i think, i wish this was on hbo.

Hopeless Semantic
10-27-2008, 09:37 PM
The shotgun could serve in a dual role. I mean, the situation with peggy and the Cuban missile crisis. It could have been part of the civil defense program and an allusion to the incident in the first season.

tessalasset
10-27-2008, 09:56 PM
coughsomeonepointmeinthedirectionofseason2download ssoicanfinishupandparticipateinthisthreadcough

tessalasset
11-06-2008, 05:57 PM
here's video from the revue: http://music.lionsgate.com/madmenrevue/revue.mov

tessalasset
11-26-2008, 09:54 AM
http://broadwayworld.com/article/_AMCs_Mad_Men_Musical_Revue_A_Night_on_the_Town_Wi th_Plans_Future_Dates_20081124

chairmenmeow47
11-26-2008, 10:04 AM
it would be awesome if it came here, though i know it wouldn't!!!

tessalasset
09-28-2009, 12:02 PM
EEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWw wHAT??? Peggy and DUCK?! I just said that out loud as I was watching it. What the fuck? That never crossed my mind at all. Disgusting.

captncrzy
09-28-2009, 01:43 PM
Peggy is kind of a whore now

nicolemxo
09-28-2009, 02:27 PM
as long as she doesn't get knocked up this time around, fine with me!

JebusLives
09-28-2009, 03:10 PM
my only real complaint with it is how sexist it can get.

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS

Quadromarshia
09-28-2009, 03:43 PM
Peggy is kind of a whore now

I can dig it.


This season has been off the chain.

theburiedlife
09-28-2009, 04:44 PM
I knew Cooper would never let Don forget he was Dick Whitman, but Don puts himself through way too much trouble in his soul-searching endeavors.

nicolemxo
09-28-2009, 05:00 PM
ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS

Agreed! Come on, this show takes place in the early 1960s. To not include the sexism would be completely inaccurate. I am currently interning at BUST magazine (a feminist one, mind you) and no one has yet to bring up their hatred of the sexism of the show. We accept that it was commonplace for women during that time period.

bleep
09-28-2009, 05:07 PM
to those about to embark on Season 3 but are kinda hazy on what took place two seasons ago, New York Magazine put out a swell recap in slideshow form
An Abridged Guide to the First Two Seasons of 'Mad Men' (http://nymag.com/arts/articles/09/08/madmen/)

rskapcat
09-28-2009, 05:30 PM
Excellent quickie recap!

Betty makes me look maternal. And I don't like kids.

buddy
09-29-2009, 01:39 AM
to those about to embark on Season 3 but are kinda hazy on what took place two seasons ago, New York Magazine put out a swell recap in slideshow form
An Abridged Guide to the First Two Seasons of 'Mad Men' (http://nymag.com/arts/articles/09/08/madmen/)

hadn't seen the first 2 years, so that was a nice recap. only started watching this year and i've enjoyed it so far. been noticing just from this season that jon hamm is a good actor, especially from this last episode.

DFrank
09-29-2009, 03:51 AM
Haven't seen the show. But this.
http://fashionrules.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/christina-hendricks-emmys.jpg

nicolemxo
09-29-2009, 04:09 PM
and that's my current lady crush.

tessalasset
09-29-2009, 04:22 PM
she's pretty amazing.

JebusLives
09-29-2009, 05:30 PM
She's definitely in my top 2 redheads. Seriously though, this is an incredible show regardless.

tessalasset
10-05-2009, 01:42 AM
don totally redeemed himself tonight. i think this was my favorite episode so far this season. pete sitting in sweats with a bowl of cereal laughing at saturday morning cartoons. don and betty flirting like strangers in front of the italian men at dinner. betty actually speaking italian very well. betty joining don in the shower. (i've seriously never seen them be this loving with each other. i didn't think they had it in them). pete running into joan in the department store (my heart broke. christina hendricks is so fucking good). seriously fantastic episode all around.

buddy
10-06-2009, 01:31 AM
i'm enjoying this show a lot. haven't seen a drama this good in awhile. maybe early sopranos, nypd blue, homicide. never seen the wire, but i hear that's good. point is, i'm liking this show. best drama on tv?

tessalasset
10-12-2009, 12:13 AM
while it is complete bullshit, i don't know why i expected anything upstanding to come from don in regards to sal's predicament. it sucks that that was just how it went back then. i guess things haven't changed much. i am so, so sad. something better twist and he better not be gone for good cause he has always been one of my favorite characters.

bleep
10-12-2009, 11:56 AM
i look forward to the scene where Carla stabs a large steak knife into Betty's cold, stoned heart.

Courtney
10-12-2009, 12:22 PM
The subtle disdain on Carla's face was pretty brilliant.

tessalasset
10-12-2009, 01:15 PM
she was probably the best last night.

theburiedlife
10-12-2009, 01:30 PM
Conrad Hilton is easily the most frustrating character this season, but Don is coming a close second. Don's insatiable search for contentment is destroying his personal life, and his partners are pulling the leash back now that he is under contract. Someone needs to reign in the grudge match between Don and Sterling but Cooper seems incapable of letting the steam diffuse from it. Peggy is most likely going to leave sometime soon in the fallout or Don is going to have to spend a long time with damage control before the firm is on solid ground again. I can't believe the way they let Sal go.

theburiedlife
10-19-2009, 10:28 PM
So... they are getting sold? Draper is under contract simply for that reason?

tessalasset
10-20-2009, 02:09 AM
all i gotta say is maaaaajor shit is gonna go down next week and Don doesn't even know! That was such a perfect ending to the episode and completely caught me off guard, the way it just abruptly ended with her watching him. that was HUGE of her to find his "other life" stash. who the hell keeps something like that in his house? even if it is locked up. i guess life was just different back then and wives were totally fine with their husbands blatantly keeping secrets like that.

also i noticed pete's face did not show up once in that entire episode.

stuporfly
10-20-2009, 03:18 AM
I've just finally begun getting into this show recently. My girlfriend and I stayed at a bed & breakfast the weekend of my sister's wedding in late August, and they had a huge DVD collection. We picked Mad Men and watched the first two episodes during our stay. She'd already seen it, but it was completely new to me. Since then, we've bought the first two seasons on DVD, and are working our way through the series. I'm not watching anything to do with the current season until we're done, but I'm thoroughly loving it thus far.

My father was a copywriter and eventual creative director for both Young & Rubicam and Ogilvy & Mather in the late '60s and early '70s. I haven't asked what he thinks of the show yet, or if he's even seen it. I'm curious to know what changes might have occurred between the period when Mad Men takes place and 10 years later when my father was in the game. He got into television writing and producing after that, so I'd probably get an earful about that as well.

bleep
10-26-2009, 10:17 AM
go Betty! i was in awe of her last night.

and i'm hoping this is the last we'll see of Suzanne for a while. though i appreciate Don's fondness for brunettes, this is one gal i don't particularly care for.

bleep
10-26-2009, 10:19 AM
and breaking news: Peggy got married to Fred Armisen! this guy!
http://www.thewb.com/blog/files/2009/01/armisen.jpg

tessalasset
10-27-2009, 01:50 AM
holy shit. i just watched. that was the best episode of Mad Men i've ever seen. i cried. this show just gets exponentially better with age.

buddy
10-27-2009, 02:29 AM
i've only seen this season, but it's been great so far. can't think of anything else better drama wise on tv. i'll have to rent season 1 & 2 soon.

captncrzy
10-27-2009, 09:01 AM
holy shit. i just watched. that was the best episode of Mad Men i've ever seen. i cried. this show just gets exponentially better with age.

Last nights was very good; I so totally didn't get the whole "Roger and old chick" story line. What was the point of that supposed to be?

gazercmh
10-27-2009, 09:31 AM
Last nights was very good; I so totally didn't get the whole "Roger and old chick" story line. What was the point of that supposed to be?

That he's truly in love now and simply won't cheat on his new wife?

captncrzy
10-27-2009, 10:07 AM
Yeah, but does anyone really care?

Courtney
10-27-2009, 10:25 AM
That he's truly in love now and simply won't cheat on his new wife?

Presumably this will make it all the more meaningful when he cheats with Joan. Or something like that to come.

Somewhat Damaged
11-01-2009, 09:40 PM
I couldn't help but think throughout tonight's episode about what Fox News' coverage would be if an attempt were made on President Obama's life or if he were assassinated. Would the likes of Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh have the audacity to applaud the assassin or would they actually decry the act?

Can't believe next week's the season finale already.

stinkbutt
11-01-2009, 09:55 PM
I started watching this show not too long ago and I really can't see what the appeal is

theburiedlife
11-01-2009, 10:35 PM
Well no use trying to explain it now. Did you start from the beginning?

stinkbutt
11-01-2009, 10:52 PM
Yeah I just don't get why people find it entertaining, a lot of people I know say it's just neat to see how different things were back then. I've seen enough Scorcesse films to have had my fill with men being racist and sexist while always smoking and drinking scotch.

theburiedlife
11-01-2009, 10:57 PM
Well I would say it's more than that, it's really a soul searching story revolving around the desperate lives of Ad-men in New York City. I do admit it has a touch of vicariousness to it but its necessary to really get involved in the character interplay.

stinkbutt
11-01-2009, 11:01 PM
Well I guess I'll just have to keep watching then

buddy
11-02-2009, 02:49 AM
just watching this for this year too, but its nowhere near like watching scorsese films that have men just "being racist and sexist," it's much more than that.

tessalasset
11-04-2009, 12:57 PM
the more we see joanie and roger in their little talks the more i'm just convinced they were meant for each other.

Monklish
11-04-2009, 12:59 PM
Yeah I just don't get why people find it entertaining, a lot of people I know say it's just neat to see how different things were back then. I've seen enough Scorcesse films to have had my fill with men being racist and sexist while always smoking and drinking scotch.

Since when do wops drink scotch?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 01:39 PM
Fine congac

Monklish
11-04-2009, 01:42 PM
Huh? What fucking Italians have you ever seen that drink scotch and cognac?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 01:46 PM
They all drink congac

Monklish
11-04-2009, 01:47 PM
Where?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 01:53 PM
midwest I guess

Monklish
11-04-2009, 01:58 PM
... Italians in the midwest?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 01:59 PM
There actually is a lot of them I think most are originally from Chicago

Monklish
11-04-2009, 02:01 PM
In Chicago maybe, where else in the midwest you can reasonably expect to find Italian people I have no idea.

Either way, cognac is not a thing. Like what kind of cognac are you talking about?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 02:03 PM
St. Paul there is a ton quite a few in Cedar Rapids as well. As for the kind of congac I don't know because I don't drink that shit I just recognize the bottle.

Somewhat Damaged
11-04-2009, 06:59 PM
stinkbutt, it's cognac.

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 07:01 PM
well you learn something new everyday

Monklish
11-04-2009, 07:35 PM
Yup. Spelled that way because it's French.

Seriously, what cognac have you ever seen dagos drinking? Courvosier? Hennessey? Anything besides those two wigger staples?

stinkbutt
11-04-2009, 07:54 PM
I already said I don't know but just recognized the bottle and the glasses it was drank out of kind of look like brandy snifters.

tessalasset
11-09-2009, 03:15 AM
that was a very good season finale. i can't even tell you how happy i was when joanie walked through the door cause it completely caught me off guard. i actually said out loud, "oh my god! of COURSE they have to hire joanie!" she was like the final piece of the puzzle and i love how highly everyone regards her there, whether they realize it or not. i was a little sad kinsey didn't make the team, but then i thought how boring that would have been if all the big players just up and left. i wouldn't care about the old office anymore. the fact that old SC still has kinsey and cosgrove makes me at least interested in what's going on over there. but the rest of them were such a happy little family. i think this is almost exactly what don needed at the start of the divorce. it shook things up for a second, but looking around that hotel room at the end i think he realized everything was gonna be okay. also i seriously thought he was going to strike betty in their room when he came home drunk. i was sitting there in horror watching that scene go down. it was kind of perfect, actually. he can get freaking scary when he's drunk. i don't think we've ever seen that side of him, have we? and what about hilton? can he come back to sterling, cooper, draper and price? now that they're not under PPL? and wait. so betty's gonna marry politician dude. is he divorced? i thought he was married.

Somewhat Damaged
11-09-2009, 05:44 AM
How did you NOT figure that Joan was coming back, especially when they were having the trouble figuring out where everything was and Roger was all, "Hold on a sec, let me go make a phone call"?

I enjoyed the season finale, too. Did we know previously that Don saw his father get killed just feet away from him? It's no wonder he's such an alcoholic. Something like that is sure to fuck you up. (Yeah, yeah, not to mention everything else he'd gone through.) It's weird because Don is such a cad and deserves for Betty to leave him, but I still can't side with her because she's such a selfish, infantile bitch that you sort of understand why he'd sleep around on her. So she took off with the baby and her new man for, what, 6 months and left the kids behind to live with Carla? If that's the case, why did Don have to leave? And besides that, the motherfucker is responsible for everything they have. If I were him, I would've been adamant against leaving.

Kinsey getting left behind was probably good for him. He doesn't seem to belong in the ad world anyway. Same kind of goes for Cosgrove, although he'll probably keep his position with McCann longer since he was so good at it to earn the promotion over Pete.

tessalasset
11-09-2009, 01:36 PM
yeah i didn't catch on to the joan thing because i suck at foreshadowing, but i'm ok with that because then it makes it that much more of a pleasant surprise.

i think betty only has to leave for six weeks, not six months. but even still, she shouldn't have made don leave until she got back.

theburiedlife
11-09-2009, 04:37 PM
How long is it going to take before Conrad Hilton comes back?

Courtney
11-10-2009, 01:28 AM
Oh my goodness I love this television show. Every single episode is so pitch-perfect.

They seem to like to open the episodes with a scene of Don still in his pajamas in some domestic setting. I remember they even did this for the first episode of the season -- Don was in his pajamas in the middle of the night, awake warming up milk on the stove. For the season finale, it was just a short little shot of Don waking up and looking bleary. I guess this is supposed to establish some sort of vulnerability of humanity for otherwise steely, polished character. But he is definitely looking more worn out and scraggly with each episode as the situation gets worse at home. The bags under his eyes were pretty major for the finale.

Seeing the way Don and Betty fought, and having Don call Betty a whore, definitely shocked me too Tessa. I remember when he threw her around a few episodes ago, but somehow the words were even worse. Roger Sterling probably said it best when he and Don were discussing why Don needs Roger at the new company. Roger tells Don, "you're not good at relationships because you don't value them." Don replies that he values his working relationship with Roger. And I think this is true -- at this point, work really does seem to be the only thing Don values. Both he and Betty seem to be pretty clear that they're shutting the door on their relationship.

I have to give it to Betty. For so much of the season she has seemed so weak; it's nice to see her stand up to Don. Her retorts were perfect. When Don tells her that he's not going to let her break up the family, she looks back at him and states in a matter-of-fact tone, "I didn't break up this family." I agree with Rick that overall Betty is an unlikeable character -- I'm tired of her ice princess spoiled brat routine. But I give her props for actually fighting for her happiness instead of staying in a bad relationship. Even if it IS only after she find her golden parachute (politician advisor man Henry Francis) that she decides to jump. The fact that at the legal meeting, Betty initially says that she wants whatever she is entitled to from Don in the divorce settlement, but then quickly does a 180 at Henry Francis' prodding, had me kicking in my seat.

I also remember Henry being separated but not divorced, so is that why he is joining her in Reno? That seems like a loose plot line to me; historically it was nearly always the wife who went to Nevada and not the husband. It also seems super weird to me that Betty would just leave the kids alone with Carla for six weeks. Doesn't Carla have a family to go home to? Presumably she can't just babysit Sally and Bobby at the Draper residence for six weeks straight without a break.

Bert Cooper cracks me up, from his Japan-inspired office with Rothko and bow ties, to threatening Roger with a downpointed finger as to why he needs to join the new company (join or die), to threatening to stuff Harry Crane in the closet (and meaning it). I love that when everyone else is drinking scotch, he has a glass of milk.

I know that the PPL corporate lapdog Lane Pryce plays the unlikely hero in the finale, but I still don't trust the Brit. I almost feel bad every time he gets jerked around by PPL, from being told that his family is being uprooted to move to a new city again, to being the last to know that McCann Erickson is making the acquisition. But that doesn't change that fact that he has shamelessly agreed to whatever PPL asks in every single episode leading up to the finale. Sure, this one act of rebellion firing all the senior Sterling Cooper execs means that he may be turning a new leaf, but I have no doubt that in the end he only has one interest at heart: his own. He'll turn on Don & Co just as quickly as he did PPL, given the opportunity.

I have more thoughts about Don's increasingly-annoying flashbacks, the new warm fuzzy SCDP family at the Pierre, Joan saving the day, and stuff, but I have to do some actual real work now.

tessalasset
11-10-2009, 01:52 AM
great analysis court. i agree about lane. he's a bitch. and did don really rough betty up earlier this season? what episode? i don't remember that. i didn't think he had been physical with her before this. but as i'm typing this i'm getting a blurry vision of that happening actually.

tessalasset
11-10-2009, 02:03 AM
Mad Men's Don Draper effect
From the Christian Science Monitor (http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1106/p09s01-coop.html)


Every once in a while, a television character seems to slide effortlessly off the screen to take up residence in the Zeitgeist.

Such a creation is Don Draper.

He's the smooth-talking, sharp dressing, serial adulterating, archetypal 1960s ad man who is the central character of "Mad Men," the Emmy-laden modern-period drama just finishing its third season on cable (AMC). Jon Hamm, the Golden-Globe award-winning actor stars in the series.

The Don Draper phenomenon is making the rounds in popular culture:

The Brooks Brothers clothing company is promoting a limited edition "Mad Men" suit. And who is a main focus of the promotional campaign? You guessed it, Mr. Handsome Gray Suit himself, Don Draper.

Don Draper was voted as the No. 1 Most Influential Man of 2009 in a poll conducted by AskMen.com. And Don's not even a real person.

Don was recently the subject of a spoof on "Saturday Night Live." Jon Hamm souped up the role and comedienne Amy Poehler played an office worker attracted to him because his name just happens to be Don Draper.

Don is definitely having his day. But the moral confusion surrounding his character poses a significant problem, especially for women.

Viewers have come to know Don as a nice guy (he befriends the one rising female executive in the office), a creative guy (Don is a master of clever ad campaigns), and, much of the time, a loving husband and father, '60s style.

However, there is a dark side to Don, which to some makes him all the more intriguing, but also makes Don an ambiguous character, to say the least.

In theory, the show's creators may intend that ambiguity. They could argue that it makes Don more of a complex, modern individual. In practice, this persistent ambiguity in the central character of a widely viewed drama is ultimately a cop-out and it turns Don Draper's lifestyle into a primer on questionable behavior toward women.

Don has lied about his past – or at least disguised the truth about it. He chain smokes – in that old-fashioned way that used to be regarded as compellingly cool. Too often, he is seen holding a quintessentially 1960s cocktail, though he seldom exhibits the negative effects of alcohol.

But what makes Don Don, and is the characteristic that has propelled him front and center of the American popular imagination, is Don's attitude toward, and success with, women.

Women find him irresistible. And though Don doesn't really want to be unfaithful to his wife, he is, with an average one liaison per episode. For the most part, he gets away with it. Don kind of knows his behavior is wrong; and he feels bad about it – every once in a while.

There's a "boys will be boys" attitude surrounding Don's escapades in the show that tends to make the audience somewhat forgiving of him.

But what effect is such a character meant to have on an audience? Is Don a hero and therefore a role model because he's so handsome, suave, clever, and upwardly mobile even though he cheats on his wife in serial fashion? Or is he being held up as the model of a villain due to his adulterous, duplicitous, sexist behavior?

Unfortunately, almost three seasons on, the program has yet to provide any clear indication of a functioning moral compass to help the viewer evaluate Don.

To be sure, that is often the game successful TV writers play in order to hook audiences and keep them coming back. The popular TV series "Lost" is one example. However, the difference here is that "Mad Men" at least pretends to be realistic; and given the amount of attention being bestowed on him as a leading man, Don Draper functions as a compelling role model for masculine behavior. The issues raised by his attitudes carry reverberations for the American family.

When AskMen.com interviewed men about Don Draper, the allure of being able to drink and smoke with abandon, womanize with impunity, and be in charge won out over the fact that Don is also an alcoholic, smoker, and depressive introvert; "They all said pretty much the same thing," when AskMen.com pointed out the darker side to Don Draper, "I know. I don't care. I still want to be him."

And that is a problem.

As the season comes to a close, there are indications that Don may be beginning to face the possibility of consequences for his actions.

But unless there is some kind of resolution, "Mad Men" will end up, ironically, as merely an ad campaign, a slick advertisement for moral confusion.

tessalasset
11-10-2009, 02:03 AM
NT6GaeW9t3U

buddy
11-10-2009, 02:20 AM
i enjoyed watching this season. great show. and now im finally getting around to watching the first and second season on this website (http://www.madmenepisodes.com/) i found. im guessing i wont be disappointed.

buddy
11-10-2009, 03:14 AM
by the way, i agree with article and that don may finally be experiencing the consequences of his actions (wife leaving him, his past being found out). i imagine the next season we will see more of those, or at least a change in don's behavior.

Somewhat Damaged
11-10-2009, 08:30 AM
The author of that article is an idiot if he/she thinks that Matthew Weiner and the rest of the Mad Men creative staff haven't shown their hand with regards to a moral compass. In the second season, there was that one scene when Don was sleeping with the comedian's wife and he told her to be quiet, and when she didn't stop talking, he shoved a tie in her mouth and left the room, leaving her tied to the bed. Unless you're a sadist, you probably weren't rooting for him in that instance, thinking, "Wow, Don Draper's so cool, I wish I could be like that." And if you were, that's not the show's fault.

Courtney
11-10-2009, 08:55 AM
great analysis court. i agree about lane. he's a bitch. and did don really rough betty up earlier this season? what episode? i don't remember that. i didn't think he had been physical with her before this. but as i'm typing this i'm getting a blurry vision of that happening actually.

Thanks Tessa. The scene I'm thinking of was during season two: Betty pushed Don first, but then Don pushed Betty back -- hard.

Courtney
11-10-2009, 09:54 AM
It’s fascinating to me that weekend schemes like the one Lane Pryce and the boys cook up were ever even possible. Doing something after the end of the business day, and having no one find out about it until three days later, would be unheard of in today’s business climate. I guess the fact is the even if the British PPL execs were working over the weekend, they probably relied on other lower level workers to deliver telegrams and such. With e-mail and the Blackberry and such now, high level corporate execs are kept updated on business much more frequently, and this sort of scheme would never fly.

I liked how both Peggy Olson and Pete Campbell’s characters came full circle in their relationships with Don during the finale. Don has been treating Peggy crappy all season, so it was great to see her take a step back and ask the hard questions instead of just immediately following him to the new company without knowing what she was getting into. But even though Don has been treating Peggy like crap all season, it is obvious that he trusts her if nothing else -- he lets her walk out the door of his office without what seemed like any fear about her possibly spilling the plan to others, even through she would have everything to gain by doing so.

When Don finally comes around to Peggy’s apartment and to plead his case, is he pulling out the Kennedy card? That Peggy is the only person who understands that the trauma of Kennedy’s death means that people need to re-find themselves -- re-find themselves through purchasing consumer goods? And Peggy needs to be there to help sell them those goods? Really is that Don’s pitch? It seems like it works on Peggy, but I feel like it’s a cheap reason to ask her to join the new company. I also thought it was funny -- and unexpected -- that Peggy’s apartment had high heels and clothes scattered all around.

Although Pete has been kind of a jerk for the whole show, he has slowly been working out his bumps with his wife Trudy at home (I guess this is normal considering that they would not have lived together before getting married) -- and really growing into his own man. It was nice to hear Don give Pete some praise and recognize the things that Pete foresaw that Don didn’t (aeronautics, teens, the negro market). Nevertheless, he still looked like a 12 year old boy pretending to play sick when Don and Roger went to visit him. He still has a lot of growing up to do.

The elevator scene between Pete and Harry, with Pete realizing that Harry wasn’t (yet) in on the plan and then backtracking to not give anything away, was a funny sort of refiguring of that earlier elevator scene this season with Pete and Ken Cosgrove when they have both just been promoted to Account Director but they don’t know it, and they’re both giving vague answers to each other. The difference is that while Pete and Ken are both innately competitive, I don’t think Harry is.

I saw Joan coming from a mile away, but it was nice to see her there anyway. Her character’s perfection -- her calm, get-it-done demeanor and knowing ease -- plays a useful foil to the neuroses of the rest of the staff.

It seemed to me like the final shot of the new Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce family at the Pierre, after Trudy brings in lunch, was shot in a warmer lighting than much of the episode. It efficiently conveyed the comfort in the room, as if they were all among friends. However, we all know Mad Men, and so we all know that this warm comfort is only temporary.

Courtney
11-10-2009, 10:17 AM
NT6GaeW9t3U

Ahahaha this is amazing.


by the way, i agree with article and that don may finally be experiencing the consequences of his actions (wife leaving him, his past being found out). i imagine the next season we will see more of those, or at least a change in don's behavior.

I just hope that next season isn't so book-ended with Don flashbacks every episode. I guess it's helpful to get a glimpse into his inner life because he doesn't otherwise give away much about his past. But still, haven't we learned enough? I find the flashbacks incredibly annoying. Half the reason I watch Mad Men is for the lush sets and impeccable costuming.

iv3rdawG
11-10-2009, 06:52 PM
I'd say that was a perfect season finale. Brilliant stuff. Everyone that I wanted to go went along. Trudy Campbell (Alison Brie) was hilarious when she brought the food in. Sets up a new season that I cant wait to see.

tessalasset
11-11-2009, 01:16 AM
Have you seen her in Community? She's really funny.

captncrzy
11-11-2009, 07:13 AM
NT6GaeW9t3U

This skit is the reason I started watching the show in the first place.

bleep
11-12-2009, 08:21 PM
speaking of SNL, January Jones (Betty) will be hosting the program this Saturday!

Monklish
11-12-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm so glad his pain in the ass annoying wife is going to be out of the picture a little more. Really good ending to a season that I'd felt was weaker than the previous two.

dnbmunke
11-12-2009, 08:41 PM
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread too lazy to look... The intro to this show has art work from Edward Goreys children stories. Pretty chill stories, check em! Also Coachella 2010 April 16-18 yay!

Pixiessp
11-12-2009, 11:53 PM
Just started watching this show a few days ago. I have only watched one episode and was intrigued 5 minutes in. I have a lot of catching up to do.

stuporfly
11-26-2009, 12:02 PM
Mad Men sure looked different a decade later - This is my father when he was Creative Director at Ogilvy & Mather in the early '70s...

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs034.snc3/12139_185256218809_558948809_2851589_5566322_n.jpg

Alligator Bogaloo
11-26-2009, 12:22 PM
Just started watching this show a few days ago. I have only watched one episode and was intrigued 5 minutes in. I have a lot of catching up to do.

Get ready for the alcoholism, antisemitism, sexual harasment, and smoking. It's awesome.

tessalasset
11-26-2009, 02:35 PM
stuporfly that is awesome.

malcolmjamalawesome
11-27-2009, 06:13 PM
I'm not going to read this thread so as to avoid spoilers but I just finished Season One and god damn it this show is great.

Pixiessp
11-27-2009, 07:37 PM
Get ready for the alcoholism, antisemitism, sexual harasment, and smoking. It's awesome.

I started with the 3rd season. That's all that was available thru On Demand.
Way too much smoking. Even the pregnant ladies smoke...and drink.

I am in love with this show.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
11-27-2009, 09:20 PM
i've been watching the end of season 1 and beginning of season 2 ALL DAY

currently hooked

rskapcat
07-11-2010, 07:40 AM
New season starts 7/25. This montage is bump-worthy.

tjhvtNs48SE

Pixiessp
07-11-2010, 12:37 PM
Tick Tock Tick Tock

tessalasset
07-11-2010, 12:44 PM
Also wanted to add the hulu link into this from the video i posted earlier on this page since it was taken down from youtube:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/40972/saturday-night-live-don-drapers-guide

tessalasset
07-19-2010, 03:09 AM
Just found a pic of January Jones with her new boyfriend Jason Sudeikis. Check it out:

http://cdn.buzznet.com/media/jj1//2010/07/january-feliz/january-jones-jason-sudeikis-los-feliz-foodies-03.JPG

Alligator Bogaloo
07-19-2010, 03:37 PM
More importantly, Jason is rockin a Coachella 2010 shirt! Holla! Sunday is almost here. Yay!

tessalasset
07-19-2010, 11:04 PM
That's why I posted it in here. :)

chairmenmeow47
07-25-2010, 07:55 PM
i liked the conversation with the politician's mom about betty. the kids are scared of her and she is a "silly girl". i hope we see her dark side this season. peggy's hair is atrocious. what was that whole "john" "maggie" thing?

and who the fuck is pryce?

bleep
07-25-2010, 07:57 PM
excellent season premiere. didn't realize how much i missed draper and co. during the show's downtime till tonight.

[for those who know what the fuck i'm talking 'bout] sarah newlin?!

chairmenmeow47
07-25-2010, 08:00 PM
i knew i recognized her!!! thank you! i could NOT place it for the life of me.

tessalasset
07-25-2010, 10:49 PM
haha yes i flipped out when i saw her. that girl's agent is AMAZING. in one year, she's had great parts on true blood, the office (pam's sister at the wedding), and now mad men.


what a fucking fantastic season premiere. i also forgot how much i missed these characters. i LOVE their new dynamic. is peggy getting a new romantic interest, or is he gay, too? don finally gets to deal with all the shit he caused, but makes sure to take time for some new poontang. and yeah, super interesting how francis' mom characterized her. i was watching the show with two men (one of which was gabe schoolofruckus) and both of them are staunchly on team don and think betty is psychotic. i'm torn. i fully think don brought this on himself, but she is being a little crazy. also sally is SO OLD!!! i can't wait to see what they do with her character this season. also i'm a little buzzed. i fucking loved this episode.

downingthief
07-26-2010, 08:01 AM
Great start for the new season. Best show on TV, IMO.

chairmenmeow47
07-26-2010, 10:00 AM
i'm not really on either of their "teams", but i do think she acts like a child. i mean, don totally cheated on her and all that which was wrong. but now that's over and they're divorced. she really shouldn't hold onto the house she made with her ex-husband. she's got a new man now. and still no job. she should just take what she can get.

bleep
07-26-2010, 10:14 AM
i'm not really on either of their "teams".
yup, same here.

the scenes i look forward to the most are the ones involving both Peggy and Don. love the mentor-student interactions.

chairmenmeow47
07-26-2010, 10:32 AM
i agree bleep. i also love the way he talks to her like she's some sort of abused step-child. but i also love that for the time period, she does get a few digs in herself, such as "we just want to please you".

Alligator Bogaloo
07-26-2010, 11:46 AM
Fuck me.. I forgot to watch last night. I need to watch it tonight.

J~$$$$
07-26-2010, 11:52 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l5zlboUd8H1qzpwi0o1_500.jpg

summerkid
07-26-2010, 11:54 AM
and who the fuck is pryce?

what do you mean who the fuck is pryce? he's the british guy.

shermanoaksyo
07-26-2010, 11:56 AM
First ep was awesome. Loving depressed/withdrawn Don brooding in the dark & asking for mild S&M from a hooker that looks like Joan.

chairmenmeow47
07-26-2010, 12:06 PM
what do you mean who the fuck is pryce? he's the british guy.

that's exactly what i mean lol. i mean, the british guy hasn't been around too long. i thought it was him, but i just never knew his name.

and slapping in the face FTW!

chairmenmeow47
07-26-2010, 06:28 PM
re-watching mad men & i just noticed the reporter at the beginning is writing in short hand.

shermanoaksyo
07-26-2010, 06:55 PM
I like how shitfaced Don is in the final scene

Somewhat Damaged
07-26-2010, 10:05 PM
I thought the last half hour was fantastic. It kind of reminded me of like a super hero origin story, with Don coming into his own and commanding his destiny. I agree that his behavior towards Betty in the first few seasons was atrocious, but she doesn't make a very strong argument for herself. She always acted like a spoiled brat and it was galling that she would need a nanny who she treated kind of like shit when she never did much of anything herself. So with that being said, I reveled in Don's attitude with her when she and her new hubby showed up an hour late, and I was thrilled to see him throw those potential clients out of his office. It was very House-ian, not putting up with stupid people's stupidity. It's behavior I wish I emulated more often.

bleep
08-01-2010, 08:14 PM
Don was kinda gross tonight. there was a loud "noooooooo!" emanating from my lips when he "pounced" on Alison. sure, he's always been a whore, but he just seemed so desperate in this ep. lol @ him referring to the deed as one of Alison's acts of "kindness".

Sally could do so much better than the creepy suitor she's currently entranced.

tessalasset
08-02-2010, 12:43 AM
Oh god, Glen. That kid is so fucking creepy. But I'm happy they're giving Sally her own story lines outside of her parents for once. She's a great actress and it's crazy to see how much she's grown since last fall.

As far as the Alison/Don incident, all I could say when she pranced into his office the next morning and he dealt her the blow was "What the hell does she expect??" This is Don Draper we're talking about. Even she should know she was just a snack. Naive little girl. I'm interested to see where the Don/other advertising woman story line goes.

And it's still so weird to me to see Betsy and Henry walking around like a happy little family with the kids. I know they've had time to adjust but I sure haven't.

What an unnerving scene with Roger and the Lucky Strike guy. Totally unsettling. I hate seeing Roger vulnerable.

Also for anyone who watched Lost, I'm pretty sure the little boy Peggy is dating played Carl, Alex's boyfriend.

PotVsKtl
08-02-2010, 01:10 AM
What an unnerving scene with Roger and the Lucky Strike guy. Totally unsettling. I hate seeing Roger vulnerable.

Creepy.

chairmenmeow47
08-02-2010, 10:57 AM
Oh god, Glen. That kid is so fucking creepy. But I'm happy they're giving Sally her own story lines outside of her parents for once. She's a great actress and it's crazy to see how much she's grown since last fall.

As far as the Alison/Don incident, all I could say when she pranced into his office the next morning and he dealt her the blow was "What the hell does she expect??" This is Don Draper we're talking about. Even she should know she was just a snack. Naive little girl. I'm interested to see where the Don/other advertising woman story line goes.

And it's still so weird to me to see Betsy and Henry walking around like a happy little family with the kids. I know they've had time to adjust but I sure haven't.

What an unnerving scene with Roger and the Lucky Strike guy. Totally unsettling. I hate seeing Roger vulnerable.

Also for anyone who watched Lost, I'm pretty sure the little boy Peggy is dating played Carl, Alex's boyfriend.

i agree with all of this.

that glen kid is fucking creepy. i think it's hilarious that sally actually likes it. we're finally seeing the fruits of asshole, distant father parenting.

plus, why did the secretary leave if she actually liked don?! mixed signals.

roger and the lucky strike guy was pretty creepy.

and i thought that was carl too.

captncrzy
08-02-2010, 11:05 AM
Isn't Sally like 10? That seems kind of young to have a stalker.

It's also reminiscent of the whole little-boy-that-was-obsessed-with-Betty thing.

chairmenmeow47
08-02-2010, 11:07 AM
according to wikipedia, age 8 in 1962. i had a boy try to kill me at 6, so you never know i guess.

TallGuyCM
08-02-2010, 11:13 AM
I've been meaning to get into Mad Men, but haven't yet. Although I've recorded the first two episodes of this season. Is that an ok place to jump into?

donkey sex
08-02-2010, 11:31 AM
donít see the appeal of this show. Seen bits of a few episodes. Kinda soap opera-y.

stuporfly
08-02-2010, 12:41 PM
Catching up with the first two episodes of the new season...

- I thought the hooker scene was cheap and pointless, though preferable to another of the show's irritating reliance on flashbacks (which I mistakenly feared was coming last night). Yes, Don has a fucked up view of women. No, the hooker slapping him didn't change any of that. Her outfit reminded me of Dean Wormer's wife when she shows up in Eric Stratton's room at Delta house, though that's probably more my fault than anyone in Mad Men's wardrobe department's.

- The whole Glen/Sally thing is giving me the creeps. I expected him to slowly rise beside her bed while she was sleeping. It's good for a kid to have a peer to talk to when their parents are splitting up. It's probably best if that peer isn't a sociopath.

- The Beatles reference was an interesting one. It was a minor acknowledgement from an ad man who would soon be in a business bending over backwards in an often misguided effort to sell to kids in their own language. Adding the 45's to a list of Xmas items during the 1964 holiday along with Peggy's attempts to get Freddie to consider younger actresses was probably a bit of foreshadowing.

That's all I've got for the moment.

tessalasset
08-02-2010, 02:14 PM
- The Beatles reference was an interesting one. It was a minor acknowledgement from an ad man who would soon be in a business bending over backwards in an often misguided effort to sell to kids in their own language. Adding the 45's to a list of Xmas items during the 1964 holiday along with Peggy's attempts to get Freddie to consider younger actresses was probably a bit of foreshadowing.



That is a great catch. I think you're right. That didn't even occur to me.

tessalasset
08-02-2010, 02:15 PM
I've been meaning to get into Mad Men, but haven't yet. Although I've recorded the first two episodes of this season. Is that an ok place to jump into?

Naw, dude, you have to start from the beginning. It's episodic.

tessalasset
08-02-2010, 02:15 PM
Isn't Sally like 10? That seems kind of young to have a stalker.

It's also reminiscent of the whole little-boy-that-was-obsessed-with-Betty thing.

You do realize that it's the same boy, right?

TallGuyCM
08-02-2010, 02:16 PM
Naw, dude, you have to start from the beginning. It's episodic.

Ok.

tessalasset
08-02-2010, 02:18 PM
You'll like it, tho.

captncrzy
08-02-2010, 03:37 PM
You do realize that it's the same boy, right?

Oh. Yeah, I didn't make that connection.

shermanoaksyo
08-02-2010, 08:23 PM
It's a little irritating to lose Kinsey and Sal to save time for a new Glen storyline :nono

That said, it's a nice twist added to the Don-Can't-Kick-Betty-Out-Of-Ossining thread (b/c she knows his secrets & he needs to become a celebrity for SCDP promotion purposes)

Somewhat Damaged
08-02-2010, 09:22 PM
according to wikipedia, age 8 in 1962. i had a boy try to kill me at 6, so you never know i guess.

Do tell, in full traumatic detail.

bleep
08-02-2010, 09:25 PM
It's a little irritating to lose Kinsey and Sal to save time for a new Glen storyline :nono
Glen is Matthew Weiner's son. expect him to stick around for a while.

shermanoaksyo
08-03-2010, 12:41 AM
Glen is Matthew Weiner's son. expect him to stick around for a while.

Ah yes. good point.

tessalasset
08-03-2010, 01:46 AM
It's a little irritating to lose Kinsey and Sal to save time for a new Glen storyline :nono


I refuse to believe Paul and Kenny and even Sal are gone. Those characters and actors were just too good to "kill off." We have to see them this season. Maybe something will go down with Lucky Strike and they'll get rid of that asshole and hire Sal back as their art director.

shermanoaksyo
08-03-2010, 07:58 AM
Kenny's coming back - dunno how, but the actor was in promotional photos & his name's in the credits. Paul and Sal appear to be gone for now.

bleep
08-08-2010, 08:11 PM
ya, so tonight's was my favorite ep this season. the Dick + Anna scenes and the Don + Lane fun times were my high points.

tessalasset
08-15-2010, 02:14 PM
Well that was quick.

Elisabeth Moss and Fred Armisen break up (http://perezhilton.com/2010-08-15-mad-mens-elisabeth-moss-and-snls-fred-armisen-call-it-quits)

shermanoaksyo
08-16-2010, 02:03 AM
Not a great episode... not enough Ken!

chairmenmeow47
08-16-2010, 09:52 AM
i loved that allison threw something at don. i wonder what's gonna happen with the bisexual life girl, i hope she stays in the show longer. and campbell is horrible at giving bad news. also, poor peggy. i mean, she didn't tell him until it was too late that she was pregnant, but still, that must have hurt.

bleep
08-16-2010, 12:40 PM
Not a great episode
nuh uh. i know we're only 4 eps in but this is really shaping up to be the best season yet.

the only thing i found grating 'bout last night's ep were the hipsters.

tessalasset
08-16-2010, 11:26 PM
Peggy said something that made me laugh out loud and I made a mental note to remember it so I could post it on here and now I forget.

captncrzy
08-17-2010, 08:31 AM
My favorite part of last night was when Campbell's father in law sat down on the couch and said "you son of a bitch" and Campbell just turned around from the drink cart and shrugged.

captncrzy
08-17-2010, 08:32 AM
Peggy said something that made me laugh out loud and I made a mental note to remember it so I could post it on here and now I forget.

"He doesn't own your vagina"
"No, but he's renting it".

tessalasset
08-17-2010, 12:41 PM
That was cute, but I think she said something while in the office. Damn I might just have to watch it again.

chairmenmeow47
08-17-2010, 12:54 PM
i thought her whole conversation with allison was hilarious. why she thought she was the person to provide comfort is beyond me.

stuporfly
08-18-2010, 08:08 AM
I'm caught up on the last two episodes, so I can finally check in to the thread.

I'm not gonna lie - I've enjoyed the total lack of Betty Draper lately. That storyline just isn't as interesting to me as some of the others.

The show's continued characterization of young Beatnik-types as one-dimensional cartoons has been a disappointment, especially when such careful attention is paid to how other types of people are portrayed. I'm not going to pretend those kids didn't sometimes speak in highfalutin cliche, but there isn't much more to them than that on the show. It's not as absurd as when Dragnet started tackling hippies back in 1967, but I expect much more from Mad Men.

I was also kind of bummed out by the use of what sounded like "Venus in Furs" by the Velvet Underground as background music in the party scene where Peggy was licked by the Life lesbian. So much has been made of the show's attention to detail with regard to style and substance from year to year, but this was (at least to an obsessive NYC music geek like me) a letdown. While it's true that the VU was a band in 1965, they didn't even record their first home demo until July of 1965. That demo did include "Venus in Furs," and it's certainly possible the group had performed the number out and about before then, but as the episode in question took place much earlier in the year, and as there was no sign a band was meant to be playing in that particular scene...I know, I should just get over it.

I'm still enjoying the show, but I can't figure out if I think it's as good as it used to be.

summerkid
08-18-2010, 08:20 AM
I'm caught up on the last two episodes, so I can finally check in to the thread.


The show's continued characterization of young Beatnik-types as one-dimensional cartoons has been a disappointment.

I do not feel that its that unfair.

summerkid
08-18-2010, 08:23 AM
I refuse to believe Paul and Kenny and even Sal are gone. Those characters and actors were just too good to "kill off." We have to see them this season. Maybe something will go down with Lucky Strike and they'll get rid of that asshole and hire Sal back as their art director.

Sal will never come back (at least back to the office). Don was angry with himself more than he was at Sal when he fired him. He knew that it would be a problem down the line when he caught him with that guy in the hotel, but he decided to overlook it because he liked Sal. Don knew what it was like to live a double life so he empathized with Sal, but as soon as Sal's started to threaten business...big business he had to go. It has little to do with Lucky Strike as eventually down the road it was going to cause problems.

chairmenmeow47
08-18-2010, 10:35 AM
I'm still enjoying the show, but I can't figure out if I think it's as good as it used to be.

i do love mad men, but i have struggled with EVER finding it great. it's entertaining, it's pretty and interesting. but it's always bashed you over the head with OMFG it's the 60s and in a lot of ways seems a bit cliche. i still enjoy it, but i can't help but wonder what a show like this would have been like on HBO.

shermanoaksyo
08-18-2010, 10:49 AM
The Season 1 beatniks were better. This season they are hitting us over the head with PEGGY IS THE GREATEST, ARTSY PEOPLE ARE INSUFFERABLE concept a bit.

At it's best, it's better than anything else on right now... but sometimes the show suffers a bit from its ultraslow pacing. When that build up results in dynamite episodes like "Seven Twenty-Three" or the finale from last season, it makes it all worthwhile. For now, I found last week's to be a bit of a snooze.

stuporfly
08-18-2010, 10:57 AM
i do love mad men, but i have struggled with EVER finding it great. it's entertaining, it's pretty and interesting. but it's always bashed you over the head with OMFG it's the 60s and in a lot of ways seems a bit cliche. i still enjoy it, but i can't help but wonder what a show like this would have been like on HBO.

You've given me an opening to mention how much it bugged me that there was another doctor smoking in his office this season. I've no doubt that sort of thing happened (or that pregnant women smoked without people looking at them like they were abominations), but sometimes it feels like a gimmick on this show.

tessalasset
08-18-2010, 10:57 AM
.

I'm not gonna lie - I've enjoyed the total lack of Betty Draper lately. That storyline just isn't as interesting to me as some of the others.


Hah I didn't even realize that until you pointed it out.

shermanoaksyo
08-18-2010, 11:00 AM
Actually, I was kind of enjoying the whole "Henry Francis is realizing he married a crazy bitch" thing. More next week, it seems.

shermanoaksyo
08-23-2010, 12:38 AM
fuck yeah

downingthief
08-23-2010, 07:33 AM
i do love mad men, but i have struggled with EVER finding it great. it's entertaining, it's pretty and interesting. but it's always bashed you over the head with OMFG it's the 60s and in a lot of ways seems a bit cliche. i still enjoy it, but i can't help but wonder what a show like this would have been like on HBO.

I'm actually glad it's not on HBO. I think that would have ruined it. Being on AMC, it is able to be more sublte in places, and I like that. Also, I think MM is the best show on TV.

tessalasset
08-23-2010, 11:56 PM
This was a great episode. Campbell's got balls.

tessalasset
09-01-2010, 06:25 PM
i can't get enough of this.

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/08/MAD-MEN-MEDIUM.gif

chairmenmeow47
09-02-2010, 02:29 PM
great clip!

i loved this week's episode! micah and i had a debate though. when don tells sterling that he had offered him the job and then smirks in the elevator, do you think sterling really offered him the job? i personally think don made it up since he knew sterling was drunk, but micah disagrees.

captncrzy
09-02-2010, 03:26 PM
I'm pretty sure Don made it up. I think it serves as an insight to his drive for success; we already know he's a fantastic liar...why not lie to get the job of his dreams?

captncrzy
09-02-2010, 03:32 PM
Interesting post on the AMC site:


Calling Bluffs or the Threat of Exposure

Interesting theme this week about how easily the powerful can be toppled because they are bigger targets--and have more to fear from exposure. In fact this David vs. Goliath theme is almost literal as Peggy and Danny are physically small compared to their opponents (Stan and Don). Peggy is sequestered with Stan who Don asserts is more talented ("you have to work with him, not he with you!"). She defeats Stan by calling his bluff on nudity, exposing him, literally, as being not so cool as she about it. He ends up having to work with her, not vice versa.

Peggy also wins in a similar way against Don. She remembers what he forgot about stealing the ad. "You have to work this out," she commands him. So smaller Peggy wins against Don by, likewise, threatening to expose him as a thief, as not so "brilliant" as he wants everyone to think.

Back in Don's office, small Danny calls powerful Don's bluff, refusing to be bought off. Again, Don's chink in the armor here is the fear of being exposed (stealing Danny's idea). Danny has nothing to lose. He doesn't have to give in, as Don does.

And, of course, back in time, Don does something similar with Roger. Roger doesn't want to be "exposed" as someone who got too drunk to remember what he said-nor, we presume, does he want his affair with Joan to be exposed.

Exposure has been the running theme of this season. This week the message seemed to be that power is in the hands of one who loses nothing when exposed, vs. one who will lose everything if exposed. And so little Davids (small targets) are often far more powerful than over-confident Goliaths (big targets).

Thoughts?

buddy
09-05-2010, 11:07 PM
peggy's character has really developed this season, even more than past seasons, and this latest episode gave reason to enjoy and respect her even more. probably my favorite episode this year.

ivankay
09-06-2010, 11:16 AM
This season is turning out to be my favorite. The past 2 episodes are top of the heap. i love how the beginning of last night episode was showing the decline of Don by showing he lost his edge by not being down with 2 of the most popular spokesmen of the upcoming advertising age (Joe Namath and Ali) and how the fighting style of Liston mirrored Don's approach towards life (guarded). Optimistically Don does embrace Ali in the end and may save himself.

This show is soooooo rich. So much happens in the first 20 minutes that when a commercial break comes up, instinctively i get bummed because i feel like it is almost over (due to the amount of stuff). Then i get super happy when i see there's about 40 minutes left.

Somewhat Damaged
09-06-2010, 05:05 PM
Last week, I was convinced that they were laying the groundwork for Peggy to leave the agency at the end of the season. After last night, no way is that happening. I agree with you, Mike, about how much happens in between each commercial break that it feels like the show should be near its end. I thought last night's episode was over when Don passed out in Peggy's lap and was surprised there was still one more segment left.
The writing and acting in this episode were both terrific and I suspect this will be one of the episodes they get a writing nomination for next year. Earlier in the day, I had read an article in Entertainment Weekly in which Matthew Weiner suggested that the reason Jon Hamm or Elisabeth Moss have yet to win an acting Emmy is because their roles call for subtlety and oftentimes acting awards are given to more showy performances. I don't think that'll be the case next year. Jon Hamm in particular has been been glorious in his portrayal of Don being put through the wringer. I don't see them giving Best Actor to Bryan Cranston a 4th year in a row next year. Like Mike, this has become my favorite season as well.

Pixiessp
09-07-2010, 12:11 AM
I'm reading my Rolling Stone Mad Men special issue. Best show on the tube right now. Thee best!!

tessalasset
09-07-2010, 01:05 AM
That was by far the best episode I've ever seen of this show. Fantastic from start to finish, and I even cried to boot. Wow.

captncrzy
09-07-2010, 09:02 AM
Me too. John Hamm was fantastic. Emmy-worthy performance.

BobCaygeon
09-07-2010, 06:49 PM
Slate Magazine does a discussion after every episode. It's usually a good read. Today somebody posted a theory about Don's treatment of Peggy's wanting credit and how it relates to Weiner and a writing assistant. Interesting.

http://www.slate.com/id/2261483/entry/2266346/

The previous entry that likened Peggy to Mary Tyler Moore was also interesting. If Peggy ever tosses her beret... nah, that would be too obvious.

tessalasset
09-09-2010, 02:19 PM
http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/09/PETE-EYE-CLOCK-GIF.gif

shermanoaksyo
09-13-2010, 09:26 AM
OK, now that episode was terrible. So many ways to do the "Don dries out" story, a fucking narrated diary was not the right choice.

gazercmh
09-13-2010, 01:43 PM
So when Don told his date that the woman he'd just introduced was his ex-wife and she said, "Her?", what do you think she was surprised by? I couldn't tell if she thought Betty was a catch or not good enough for Don.

chairmenmeow47
09-13-2010, 04:10 PM
i thought she thought the ex was a good catch. also, i think the date is meant to be a parallel to betty.

and what a snoozefest that episode was. don trying to give monologues that are in any way supposed to be insightful should be parodied by cartman immediately.

tessalasset
09-14-2010, 12:14 AM
I wasn't digging the narrative. I don't like knowing that far into Don's mind. I'd rather he just show me.

Somewhat Damaged
09-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I liked the episode, but then I may have been swayed by that young girl going down on Don in the backseat.

shermanoaksyo
09-20-2010, 10:02 AM
Are we jumping the shark? Funny one-liners aside.

tessalasset
09-21-2010, 12:53 AM
On the contrary, I quite enjoyed that episode. I loved seeing Don learning to interact with his growing daughter. He learned he can't completely treat her as a child anymore. And he's gotta be feeling badly for her living with Betty all alone like that. I'd run away, too. It was sweet to see Joan and Roger's relationship bloom again. He really fucked up marrying Jane, and he could be so much better for her than Greg.

tessalasset
09-21-2010, 01:23 AM
can i just...

http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2010/09/Mad-Men-Beautiful-Girls-26.jpg

captncrzy
09-21-2010, 08:59 AM
Funny episode last night; watching Pete trying to drag the body out on a chair was pretty great.

captncrzy
09-21-2010, 09:00 AM
Funny episode last night; watching Pete trying to drag the body out on a chair was pretty great.

D- "What did you put on this?"

S- "Mrs. Butterworths."

D- "Can I see the bottle?"

S- "Here..."

D- "This is rum...learn to read labels."

S- "Is it bad?"

D- "Not really."

Somewhat Damaged
09-21-2010, 09:52 AM
I'd have my secretary do it but she's dead.

ivankay
09-21-2010, 12:51 PM
i really like Defamer's recaps (http://defamer.gawker.com/5642975/mad-men-death-and-the-maiden) If you read them right when they get posted, clips from the show haven't been removed. Good readin'.

chairmenmeow47
09-21-2010, 01:54 PM
i enjoyed it a lot more than the episode the week before. i too like crazy sally.

tessalasset
09-21-2010, 02:46 PM
i liked this:


When Joan and Pete have to wheel her out of the office under a blanket so it doesn't upset the warring Fillmore brothers from Fillmore Auto Parts, that was funny too. I thought it was sort of a reflection of what the show is about. All the good stuff is happening in the background, just outside of the "action," which is really just some boring business deal. Like Don, Ken Cosgrove, and Dr. Faye, we get to see both the business and what's in the background, because we're sitting in the privileged vantage point of the present looking back at the past.

tessalasset
09-21-2010, 02:49 PM
ivy that was really a great recap. i didn't know defamer could take themselves to seriously.

PotVsKtl
09-21-2010, 08:20 PM
How in the shit are they looking into the past? That's some Pitchfork level analysis.

PotVsKtl
09-21-2010, 08:59 PM
Despite the baffling transgressions of Defamer, this is easily the best season.

HunterGather
09-27-2010, 05:42 PM
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9ca21gybp1qdl5f4o1_500.gif

tessalasset
09-27-2010, 06:49 PM
I think I have to agree with you Ryan.

tessalasset
09-28-2010, 01:00 AM
I just found out Jimmy Barrett from Season 2 (aka Phil from LOST) is dating/possibly married to the new creepy waitress on True Blood. I was just looking through some old pics on my computer from when the Mad Men cast came to the El Rey in 08 and she's in all the pics with him. Their kids are gonna have some big ass foreheads/eyebrows.

http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/7/G/X/N/dahliaprem11.jpg

Somewhat Damaged
09-28-2010, 09:32 AM
This week's episode was downright apocalyptic. Fantastic stuff. How many episodes are left in the season? They're really ratcheting things up.

chairmenmeow47
10-06-2010, 12:27 PM
i felt really bad for sterling this week. i'm not saying he didn't bring a lot of this on himself, but his world is really crumbling.

i also hate megan's face. i am disappointed in don for sleeping with her as he can do better lol.

i'm also disappointed in the psych girlfriend for doing what don asked her to do. she can do better.

I.F.A.
10-06-2010, 01:11 PM
I just found out Jimmy Barrett from Season 2 (aka Phil from LOST) is dating/possibly married to the new creepy waitress on True Blood. I was just looking through some old pics on my computer from when the Mad Men cast came to the El Rey in 08 and she's in all the pics with him. Their kids are gonna have some big ass foreheads/eyebrows.

http://0.tqn.com/d/movies/1/7/G/X/N/dahliaprem11.jpg

So this is completely off topic, but I was watching Mulholland Dr. last night and realized for the first time that the guy in the beginning with the weird dream is Phil, and that the hit guy is Jacob.

jtovar21
10-06-2010, 01:19 PM
Pete Campbell walks amongst hipsters in Echo Park, who knew?

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/fashion/03With.html?_r=2

captncrzy
10-06-2010, 01:25 PM
i also hate megan's face. i am disappointed in don for sleeping with her as he can do better lol.



She looks like she has about 6 - 7 extra teeth in her mouth

tessalasset
10-06-2010, 02:20 PM
Yes! Given, that's the only flaw I can find, but her teeth were seriously distracting me Sunday night.

stuporfly
10-15-2010, 03:53 PM
I interviewed my father for a PopMatters piece on Mad Men this week...

PopMatters (http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/132236-mad-man/P0)


Maybe this says more about who I spend my time with than anything else, but I don’t know anyone who doesn’t watch Mad Men. There are times I have to step away, like when my Facebook news feed is filled with post-viewing chatter by friends who’ve changed their profile pictures to cartoon versions of themselves as characters from the show. When the hype becomes too much, or when I realize I don’t want to know what kind of trouble a little girl is getting into in the world of episodic television when I’ve got an actual little girl of my own in the actual world. I’ll tune it all out and let a few days go by, but such is the allure of Mad Men that I’m back in front of the television again, feeling like no matter how much I groom myself I’m still comparatively slovenly. Everyone I know watches Mad Men. Well, not everyone. Not my father.

My father and I get along incredibly well. Sure, it hasn’t always been that way. I was a gigantic pain in the ass when I was a teenager, and we’ve had the odd disagreement here and there in the intervening years. For the most part we really get along, but when it comes to television, well…. Last Thanksgiving, during a visit to the home he shares with my stepmother in Palm Springs, my father made it through about five minutes of the pilot of Arrested Development, a show I’d tried in vain to convince him was a comedic work of art. The ensuing conversation didn’t go well, and it wasn’t the first time that sort of thing has happened, either.

And so after nearly four full seasons of not even mentioning Mad Men to my father, I finally had to ask. It’s not because I’m a fan of the show, or at least that’s not the only reason. I wanted to get the opinion of my father, not as the opinionated curmudgeon who’d burned me up over Arrested Development, but as an expert. My father was a Mad Man.

Gary Kott was a writer and Supervising Producer on The Cosby Show from the second-through-sixth seasons, the ones where the show was #1 in the ratings. I was a high school kid at the time, and it held a certain cache with some of the girls in my class to be able to say that some stupid thing I’d done had become some stupid thing Theo Huxtable did on television, even when that was mostly untrue.

My father wrote scripts for Remington Steele, Fame, The White Shadow and Hotel. He’s won a Peabody Award, a Writer’s Guild of America Award, a People’s Choice Award, an NAACP Image Award and was once nominated for an Emmy and twice for the Humanitas Prize. But even today, he still feels like some of his best work was done on Madison Avenue.

In some ways, my father’s story in advertising is not unlike Don Draper’s, beginning by writing catalog copy for department stores and ending in offices high above the grit and grime of midtown Manhattan. My father became Vice President and Creative Director at the legendary Ogilvy & Mather, worked on huge campaigns for Young & Rubicam (on whose carpeted floor a much younger version of myself threw up) and had a hand in doing in real life the kinds of things Don Draper and his creative team try to do on television. My father was there in the ‘70s, so while some of these guys were still around, the world outside was very different. And with his long hair, leather jackets and blue jeans, my father made sure it looked a lot different inside the offices as well. Even so, I thought I’d ask.

He hadn’t seen the show, of course. He’d heard about it—how could he not?—but hadn’t actually watched any episodes. So, with my father in his home in Palm Springs and me in mine in Brooklyn, we set up Skype and watched the pilot together. Every few minutes, we’d pause the episode and chat, and nearly two and a half hours later we were through.

Set in 1960, the Mad Men pilot—“When Smoke Gets in Your Eyes”—brings us back to a world that almost seems quaint by comparison, where everyone smokes and drinks and cavorts with sexism and sexuality in equal measures. Much has been made of Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner’s attention to detail, and it was after seeing Draper sorting through an ad pitch on a bar napkin while ordering another drink that my father first paused the episode.

“That’s what we used to do, write campaigns on napkins,” said Dad. “I worked on so many campaigns, I’d come up with them on the subway on the way in to the meeting so many times. One of the skills good advertising people have is amazing quickness. Just the quickest, brightest human beings on the planet, and they all know how to pull stuff out of their hat. And good stuff.”

The bar itself had a certain familiarity to it as well.

“Across the street from Ogilvy & Mather was a bar called Ratazzi’s, and it’s where all the advertising people hung out. They served these huge martinis and it was packed every night. They finally closed it and there’s a plaque, a permanent plaque there, I think it’s on 48th between 5th and Madison, and it’s actually an historical site now.”

As the action followed Draper to the crash pad apartment of his beatnik fling Midge, my father wondered about whether the show was going to turn into a soap opera, a question I’ve often found myself asking.

“So, now they’re making the show like Desperate Housewives goes to Madison Avenue, all affairs and flings,” he said. “If you worked for a big ad agency, you weren’t worried about who you were schtupping. No one cared, no one gave a shit.”

As Don and Midge discussed the government’s crackdown on cigarette advertising—a storyline that runs through the entire episode—my father recalled the first time he came in contact with the product as a copywriter.

“The only advertising campaign that I ever turned down is when I was at Young & Rubicam,” he said. “They were pitching Liggett Meyer, and they asked me. I went, ‘Well, okay. I’ll give it a try.’ This was probably sometime in the early ‘70s. And they handed me a report, a top secret report from the government: The Health Findings of Cigarettes. I read it, and I smoked at the time. And not only did I quit smoking, but it was the only time in my life when I went in and said, ‘I cannot work on this product.’ I was so horrified by that report.”

Restrictions were nothing new to the advertising world by the time my father became part of the scene, but there were always ways around them.

“The Food and Drug Administration had already started to clamp down, so we had a lot of restrictions we had to work around,” he said. “But there were guys at the agency that had worked during the days of no restrictions, and it was really quite amazing what they got away with. The stories were unbelievable. They’d show you the historical reel, and what they used to do with toys, kids walking in, they’d get a plastic submachine gun and they’d show them sneaking into the room while their parents were sleeping and they’d machine gun their parents to death. These commercials went on and on.”

Later, when Joan Holloway shows new secretary Peggy Olson the ropes, my father stopped the show again.

“I started in ’69 and was at Ogilvy in ’72,” he said. “These days were already long gone. These secretaries were thinking, ‘I’m gonna be creative director.’ That attitude had changed. They weren’t coaching each other on how to screw their way to an apartment in New York.”

When I explained that Olson actually did work her way up the chauvinistic ladder to become a copywriter, my father said that it seemed realistic.

“Ogilvy was very strange back then,” he said. “There was a no nepotism rule. You couldn’t be a relative of anybody, and you certainly couldn’t be a wife of somebody, or you couldn’t be the girlfriend. They were really on the lookout for that. If you were a copywriter, you really had to earn your way in. There were a couple of secretaries that got promoted to advertising, but we all saw the process that they had to go through, and it wasn’t easy. They had to do spec portfolios like we all did and present them. And it was actually better for them once they got their first copywriting jobs to leave the agency so they didn’t have that hanging over them.”

With a pitch to Menken’s Department Store looming, firm partner Roger Sterling asks Draper, “Have we ever hired any Jews?” My father, a Jew, had already asked if the topic would come up during the show.

“There were no Jews in ad agencies,” said Dad. “Ogilvy & Mather was very British, very Harvard, very preppy. I don’t know if there was ever a Jewish guy in the creative department, and then one that looked like me.”

Later, when Sterling introduces David Cohen – who he found in the mailroom – to Rachel Menken as a member of the art department, my father laughed.

“That’s very funny,” he said. “That just happens to be good TV. It was an exaggeration, but it’s good writing. That’s good TV. Their whole handling of the Jewish situation was good. It’s funny that I brought it up, and it was a subplot of the first episode. It really was rare.”

The topic led him on a tangent about other firms, including one that produced some work that not only showed up in later episodes of Mad Men, but which convinced my father that advertising was where he saw himself.

“Advertising was pretty bland through the ‘50s,” he said. “It was all things to all people, big, luxury convenience, girls in crinolines, jingles, taglines. There were two giants of advertising thought, and I worked for one of them, David Ogilvy. And then there was this new agency called Doyle, Dane, and Bernbach. That’s probably who they were talking about as catering to the Jews. David Ogilvy landed the Rolls-Royce account and wrote these stunning ads, they were poetry. Later, they got the Mercedes account. But Doyle was a small agency, and they got this account called Volkswagen. You’ve got to remember in the ‘50s and ‘60s, the idea was big luxury American cars. And here was this frickin’ car from Germany, of all places, called a Beetle that looked like something you’d put in your pocket. And on top of it, it was the dream child of Adolf Hitler. How can you sell that in America after the war? Giant luxury cars, beautiful women driving down the street, handsome men, ‘See the USA,’ Dinah Shore, blah, blah, blah. Doyle, Dane and Bernbach said, ‘Let’s go the opposite.’ And they came out with an ad, and the headline said: Think Small. Think Small to Americans, and this little teeny picture of this little Bug, and that one ad revolutionized advertising. When I saw ads like that, I said, ‘That’s what I want to do.’ That started the new school of advertising, this minimalist, sharp, clever thoughtful campaign.”

Other campaigns by the firm were just as revolutionary.

“The idea was to boast that you were number one. So Doyle, Dane, Bernbach gets Avis. Hertz was the number one car rental of all time, and if you were not number one, you sure didn’t want to advertise it. So, Doyle comes out with this headline that says: Avis – We’re Number Two, But We Try Harder. So bizarre, and Americans loved that.

“And then they got the Alka Seltzer account, and how do you do anything with such a cruddy product. And they started this campaign: Plop Plop, Fizz Fizz, Oh What a Relief it Is. And that led to commercials like, ‘I can’t believe I ate the whole thing.’

“When I saw ads like that, I thought forget about the old school of advertising, that’s what I want to do. So here, not only was I with the long hair, the leather jacket, but I wanted to do advertising that these agencies had never done before. And they sort of let me do it. They fought me all the way, though.”

The show wasn’t a total hit with my father, especially when it came to the quality of the advertising.

“This is the problem, probably, with the show so far,” he said. “The idea is great, but the advertising sucks. If this guy is a creative genius and that’s the kind of advertising he’s approving, this guy would be out by 1973. If this is the best he could do, and these are his advertising instincts in 1960, my guess is he’d own a bed & breakfast in Vermont by 1973. I saw a lot of these guys go down quick. To me, it’s like saying, you’ve set up a show about the greatest football player that ever lived, and then you see him throw the ball and he can’t even grip it.”

The episode featured art director Sal Romano showing a print sketch of a man in a hammock with the word ‘Relax’ as the headline, and later Draper enthralling the board of Lucky Strike by pulling “It’s toasted” out of thin air. Neither of these impressed my father.

“When you think of, ‘It’s toasted’ saving the day, compare that to ‘Just Do It’ for Nike,” he said. “Enough said. That’s saving the day. It’s the weak part of the show, the actual advertising, because it’s hard.”

He acknowledged that because if his professional experience, that sort of thing might bother him more than the average viewer.

“I wrote a doctor show (The Cosby Show), and I just threw in some medical jargon,” he said. “I’m sure some doctors watching were like, ‘Hey, the patient’s gonna frickin’ die!’ Cliff Huxtable was a doctor, and Clair was a lawyer, and I’m sure lawyers were going, ‘What the hell are they talking about?’ But that is a really bad ad agency. And I’m sure America doesn’t care, just as if I was watching a show about Nascar, whatever they tell me is fine, I’m not going to know the difference. But right now, that ad agency is going to have to get better because I’d have a hard time watching it. A show about advertising, you would hope that they got sharper, because none of these people would survive so far. It’s the worst ad agency I’ve ever seen, and they’ve got to get to work.”

That last point was also something of an issue for my father, a man who worked absurdly long hours in advertising, and then continued the practice while writing and producing television. As the younger staff members of Sterling Cooper begin to file out just after 5:00 in the afternoon, my father was stunned.

“Time to go at 5:15? You saw the way I worked. 5:15, you’d say half day,” he said. “At Y&R, we all worked weekends. The saying was ‘If you don’t show up Saturday, don’t bother to show up Sunday.’ We’d be there hour after hour after hour hammering out ideas locked in our offices. So years later, Ogilvy takes me back, and they were going to make me a Vice President and Creative Director out in L.A. So the first day they introduced me to my group, the art directors and the copywriters. And at about ten after five, a couple of them knocked on my door, stuck their heads in and said, ‘We’re really glad you’re here, can’t wait to work for you, see you tomorrow.’ And they got on the elevator. And I started laughing and laughing. Someone came in and said, ‘What’s so funny?’ I said, ‘These guys have such a great sense of humor,’ and I kept looking at the elevator doors waiting for them to open. And they never opened up. Five minutes later, three more people from the group walked in and said, ‘Gotta go, I’ve got a volleyball game today.’ And the whole group was gone by twenty after five. I sat there stunned. It was at that moment where I knew it wasn’t going to work out for me. Going home at five o’clock at night? I’d never heard of that. Five o’clock was when it got quiet and you could do good work. That’s the way it was, and I said, ‘I’m going to get out of here. I can’t work with people like this.’”

As a television show, my father found Mad Men more hit than miss, though the repetition began to wear on him a bit.

“The writing is so inconsistent,” he said. “They just keep hitting the same beat and the same beat and the same beat. This guy is good, I’m not knocking him. It’s really impressive that a guy would tackle an era he had nothing to do with. But I’m 30 minutes into the show, and they’ve articulated the same problems five times. In 30 minutes, you’ve covered cigarettes five times and talked about this girl’s legs seven times.”

While Account Services Executive Pete Campbell is presented as a threat to Draper, my father didn’t buy it, especially after the former’s disastrous “death wish” pitch to Lucky Strike.

“The evil character, the Darth Vader kid would just get blown out of the water,” he said. “The great thing about Steven Spielberg, when he did Jaws, he didn’t say, ‘Oh my god, there’s a shark and it’s eating all the people.’ He showed the fucking shark. And he just showed it for about 30 seconds, and it just fucked everybody up for the rest of their lives. You can’t say in a corporate office that there’s guy nipping at my heels, you’ve got to show they’re formidable. You can’t have a guy get up and give a speech saying we’re all going to die anyway. You’ve got to have this guy coming in with amazing shit, because that’s the fear. Advertising is like baseball. You’re having a bad season, and they bring in a rookie, and he starts hitting line drives off the fucking wall, your job is really in jeopardy. So you’d better start taking steroids. This guy has no competition yet in that agency. In the ad agencies, the competition is grand. There’s always people nipping at your heels, and I’d be nipping at his heels. And he’d feel it. I nipped at all these guys. I always had guys coming after my jobs constantly. And I’d say, ‘Okay, try to get it. You’re better than me, you deserve it.’ And you know what, they couldn’t find that person.”

My father said he understood that if the show was four seasons into its lifespan, the characters probably developed much further than the “stick figures” he saw in the pilot, and the advertising might even have improved. But after 45-plus minutes, it was all about Don Draper.

“What makes a TV show ultimately is the characters, and so far it’s just the pilot, but you’ve got one good character, Don Draper,” he said. “Otherwise, it’s very one-dimensional and repetitive.”

But that was only part of the picture, and my father said that when the writing was good, it was very good. He liked the premise, how careful Weiner and the producers were with conveying a period in time and with setting it in what was effectively the Wild West in the Big Apple.

“It’s very clever what this guy has done in setting it back in the early ‘60s when there were no rules to life. I mean, everybody smoked. They smoked in the office, they smoked on airplanes. And they drank.”

Though he said the drinking wasn’t nearly as over the top as it might have been in 1960, my father remembered the offices as being a bit more lenient in his era than they might be today. He remembered a fellow copywriter from his early days at Ogilvy & Mather.

“She got hired two weeks after me, and she would come in still drunk from the night before,” he said. “She would slam her door shut and say, ‘No calls!’ She’d black out on the couch, wake up at about 11 and I had to take her down for coffee. She was very funny.”

My father also enjoyed the show because it gave him an opportunity to talk about his past, both in advertising and in the eventual move to writing for television.

“These people all wanted to be vice presidents, but that was a sad day for me,” he said. “I was 30 years old, Vice President, and it depressed me. But what it also did was it gave me permission to leave the business. I was way younger than any of the other creative directors. I didn’t really want to supervise other people, and I didn’t care about corporate pie charts. I was not motivated to have the corner office, and there were guys in there who wanted that dream.”

Instead, his relocation to Los Angeles with Ogilvy & Mather gave him the opportunity to break into Hollywood.

“It was The White Shadow and Bruce Paltrow” he said. “Hollywood did not care about advertising people, and Marc Rubin had gotten the head writer job through Paltrow. They had a pickup for five shows, and Paltrow wrote one, Rubin wrote one, I think Paltrow wrote another and Paltrow’s friend Steven Bochco came in and wrote number four. They only had one script assignment left, and Paltrow said, ‘Who do you want to write it?’ And Mark said, ‘Gary Kott?’ Paltrow said, ‘Who’s Gary Kott?’ ‘He works in an ad agency,’ and Bruce Paltrow hits the roof. ‘I have my choice of any writer in Hollywood? What do I care about an ad guy?’”

We continued to talk about my father’s career long after “When Smoke Gets in Your Eyes” fell into the credits, digging through my own hazy memories of visits to ad agency offices and commercial shoots along the way. We also covered some of what happened over the next few seasons of Mad Men, with my father guessing more often than not how certain events in and out of the world of advertising might have been handled on the show. It made me wonder how other people in advertising both past and present see Mad Men, or how doctors see shows like ER or Grey’s Anatomy or even The Cosby Show. And then I got back into Mad Men itself, watching the season’s penultimate episode like pretty much everyone else I know. Everyone else but my father.

chairmenmeow47
10-15-2010, 04:04 PM
that was really interesting. i really hate the monologues about the advertising stuff myself as it always sounds hokey. glad to hear that perspective :)

bleep
10-15-2010, 04:47 PM
I interviewed my father for a PopMatters piece on Mad Men this week...

PopMatters (http://www.popmatters.com/pm/feature/132236-mad-man/P0)
this is bloody amazing. loved your dad's anecdotes, he's had quite an impressive career. i would totally pick up his autobiography if he wrote one!

BobCaygeon
10-15-2010, 05:04 PM
Thanks for sharing, stuporfly.

shermanoaksyo
10-15-2010, 05:28 PM
The finale is called "Tomorrowland." Disney to the rescue?

tessalasset
10-16-2010, 01:08 AM
Can't wait to read that tomorrow when I'm bored.

Somewhat Damaged
10-16-2010, 11:31 AM
Your dad makes me depressed about what I've done by 30, stupor. Also, great piece.

tessalasset
10-18-2010, 12:28 AM
Fucking FANTASTIC finale. The best yet. I now feel comfortable saying Mad Men is the best show on television. I LOVED this episode. I'd say more but I'm on my iPod and it's annoying to type. While I actually really do like Don and Megan together, obviously that's way too fast, but I'm excited to see the drama that unfolds. Joanie kept it! I knew it! I love that Don didn't deny the Dick reference on the wall of the CA house to Sally. Pretty much everyones gonna learn about that next season huh? Including, oh, I dunno, his FIANCE??? Good to see Betty's still a cunt, but looks like Henry won't put up with that for much longer. Poor Carla. She should have taken more of a stand. Called Betty out. She didn't even end up getting a reference anyway. I also loved the convo between Don and Peggy once again. Theirs is probably my favorite relationship on the show. And HOW GREAT was that scene with Peggy and Joanie?! I hope they become actual friends next season. They're great together.

captncrzy
10-18-2010, 09:33 AM
Don is using Peggy and Piranha-teeth to recreate his female patterns. Peggy replaces Anna; Anna was his kin, his soul mate, the person he could be himself around. Piranha-teeth replaces Betty-the one he idealizes as the perfect wife and mother and who will idealize him without question rather than challenge him. Faye challenged him. She knew too much, and accepted him for who he was; he couldn't handle a woman like that being his lover too.

bleep
10-18-2010, 09:52 AM
http://i53.tinypic.com/33ni7b5.gif

ivankay
10-18-2010, 10:03 AM
They did such a good job of selling the Megan and Don relationship beyond the office (and they did it before half the episode was over). i loved how she brought up her teeth. i'm going to miss Mad Men so much until Season 5 starts.

buddy
10-19-2010, 01:39 AM
ny times interview (http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/matthew-weiner-closes-the-books-on-season-4-of-mad-men/) with Matthew Weiner talking about season 4.

tessalasset
10-19-2010, 04:34 AM
http://www.bestweekever.tv/bwe/images/2011/10/don_cannonball_11.gif

chairmenmeow47
10-20-2010, 11:26 AM
Joanie kept it! I knew it! I love that Don didn't deny the Dick reference on the wall of the CA house to Sally. Pretty much everyones gonna learn about that next season huh? Including, oh, I dunno, his FIANCE???

ha ha ha, i totally thought she did too. that was an interesting twist.


Good to see Betty's still a cunt, but looks like Henry won't put up with that for much longer. Poor Carla. She should have taken more of a stand. Called Betty out. She didn't even end up getting a reference anyway.

henry is definitely on his way out. god betty is a bitch. and poor carla indeed. i'm interested to see how much further into the future the next season will be and if sally & the weird boy will have some sort of romance or if she'll become a hippie.


And HOW GREAT was that scene with Peggy and Joanie?! I hope they become actual friends next season. They're great together.

i loved when peggy said "bullshit". that was great.


Don is using Peggy and Piranha-teeth to recreate his female patterns. Peggy replaces Anna; Anna was his kin, his soul mate, the person he could be himself around. Piranha-teeth replaces Betty-the one he idealizes as the perfect wife and mother and who will idealize him without question rather than challenge him. Faye challenged him. She knew too much, and accepted him for who he was; he couldn't handle a woman like that being his lover too.

totally agreed. plus, faye was boring and predictable. i can see how don needs something with a little more drama in his life. she's more like the ideal mother no one ever had.

i also have a feeling megan is going to go on some sort of power trip soon and will probably want to be a copy writer like joanie said.

Pixiessp
10-20-2010, 12:25 PM
I think I must have fallen asleep during the last episode. I have no idea what you are all talking about. Going to go rewatch it when I'm not so exhausted from work and then return to this thread and go AHA!!! Instead of WOT?

rskapcat
10-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Uhh...for the ladies. :cat

http://www.celebitchy.com/122992/jon_hamm_loves_to_let_his_junk_swing_his_lack_of_u nderwear_is_causing_problems/

captncrzy
10-24-2010, 10:03 AM
***long whistle***

tessalasset
10-24-2010, 11:04 PM
those pics are hilarious.

downingthief
10-25-2010, 08:08 AM
I agree with Tessa...great finale. Don is the perfect lead character. He's strong, but also completely messed up in many ways. I'm glad they didn't focus too much on Betty this season. Her character has gotten a bit stagnant.

Predictions for Season 5:

Megan gets pregnant.
Joanie gets a divorce, or husband is killed.
Cooper comes back with his tail between his legs.
Henry leaves Betty.

Pixiessp
10-25-2010, 02:36 PM
Good lord! I thought I had watched the finale. What I did watch was the episode prior. No wonder I had no idea what everyone was talking about.
So now that I've watched it:

I had a feeling Joan was still pregnant.
Don is really showing emotion. Human emotion.
Betty needs to be shot. Right now.
The actress who plays Megan looked so familiar to me for the longest time.
Turns out I remember seeing her in " Lost and Delirious " with Piper Perabo.
Peggy is still my favorite character. I've had a soft stop for her since I saw her in " Girl Interrupted " with her little burned up face.

I can't wait for the new season.

Courtney
10-25-2010, 02:45 PM
Uhh...for the ladies. :cat

http://www.celebitchy.com/122992/jon_hamm_loves_to_let_his_junk_swing_his_lack_of_u nderwear_is_causing_problems/

Hahaaaa. Oh, Gawker (http://gawker.com/5656455/jon-hamms-salami-a-photographic-investigation/gallery/).

JebusLives
10-25-2010, 05:06 PM
he doesn't look that big

TallGuyCM
07-27-2011, 08:55 AM
Yes!!!!!!!!!!

From fb:


We'd like to welcome the lovely folks from Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce to the Netflix family - Mad Men is now available to instantly stream from Netflix!

:D :D :D

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-27-2011, 11:01 AM
Did i ever mention that i have played poker with Vince, the actor who plays Pete Campbell a number of times? I have a bunch of friends that are grips on the show, and during the first season, Vince came to our poker games a bunch of times. He's a super nice guy and really into playing cards.

captncrzy
07-27-2011, 11:04 AM
I read an interview in (rolling stone?) with him; seemed very down to earth...takes the subway in LA still, etc.

rskapcat
07-27-2011, 11:09 AM
Thank you for reminding me that I need to spend some time with http://petecampbellsbitchface.tumblr.com/.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l684rfMOLn1qz5yb4o1_500.png

downingthief
07-27-2011, 11:09 AM
I read an interview in (rolling stone?) with him; seemed very down to earth...takes the subway in LA still, etc.

I read the same article. Definitely not like his character at all.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
07-27-2011, 11:30 AM
Yeah, it was at least a year after i had met him those few times that i finally saw the show and I couldn't believe what a fucking dick his character is haha

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
08-01-2011, 04:31 PM
I'm at the end of Season 4 episode 11 right now...tore through the season in a couple days. this is probably my favorite season so far.

I also enjoy that this time around Don Draper basically fucks every single female. Like, way more than before. He is just a walking hard-on that everyone wants to jump on.

rskapcat
08-01-2011, 04:54 PM
Relevant.

http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/07/don_draper_vampire_twilight_tr.html

(And an excuse to post this pic.)

http://pixel.nymag.com/imgs/daily/vulture/2011/07/29/29_vampiredon.o.jpg/a_250x375.jpg

nosurprises12
08-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Also relevant: the entire series is now available on Netflix Instant; I apologize in advance if this news means the rest of your day will be devoted to a Mad Men mana- er, marathon.

Drinkey McDrinkerstein
08-01-2011, 05:09 PM
Also relevant: the entire series is now available on Netflix Instant; I apologize in advance if this news means the rest of your day will be devoted to a Mad Men mana- er, marathon.

YES, IT WAS POSTED ON THE PREVIOUS PAGE, AND YES, IT IS CRACK

nosurprises12
08-01-2011, 05:16 PM
Blarg, missed it *takes flogging*