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Dreamer4Ever
07-22-2008, 02:57 PM
Is rock music becoming unimportant in the US?

At the Grammies last year Chad Smith pleaded to America's youth to get out there and start rock bands. In an interview after the show, he talked about America's rock music scene going stale and the need for new blood. The RHCP were the only rock band nominated in general categories at the 2007 Grammies.

I don't pretend know much about music (I'm here at the Coachella board to learn), but it looks to this outsider like Rock is being increasingly divided and re-divided into sub categories that are increasingly self-contained, with crossover acts becoming rarer. The big rock singles aren't coming from garage bands offering something new, they're 90s acts re-examining themselves as they hit adulthood.

I know this is Coachella so the mainstream can go fuck itself, but what if smaller numbers are the future of rock? Any chance the future of rock is increasingly small, specialized, and cool, and we've seen the last of Super Nova Mega bands? Or am I totally wrong and looking for clues about rock's health in the wrong places?

kreutz2112
07-22-2008, 02:58 PM
delete.

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 03:00 PM
http://www.foreverdrumming.com/pictures/smith_chad_floor.jpg

http://www.tvjab.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/ferrell.gif

spooky

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 03:01 PM
If you want arena rock Hinder said that's what they are trying to bring back so start there

captncrzy
07-22-2008, 03:16 PM
Who's Chad Smith?

Dreamer4Ever
07-22-2008, 03:18 PM
I didn't say I want arena rock.

And I used the Chad Smith quote as a starting board. Was HE wrong? Why's he wrong?

I can't learn crap if no one explains anything to me.

captncrzy
07-22-2008, 03:20 PM
No, really. Who's Chad Smith?

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 03:23 PM
He's right up there he plays drums for RHCP

Blinken
07-22-2008, 03:26 PM
And he is also known as Will Farrel

TomAz
07-22-2008, 03:43 PM
VQFmB2gFI8U

Mr.Nipples
07-22-2008, 03:51 PM
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/RetardoTronFiveThousand/townsend.jpg

Sexecutioner
07-22-2008, 03:52 PM
i agree with chad. the amount of great rock bands these days is sad. all the new bands are just these shitty indie bands that suck ass, but all your douchebag hipsters make them popular anyway cuz pitchfork says.

gaypalmsprings
07-22-2008, 03:55 PM
Jack Bruce is a legend, though he is British.

TomAz
07-22-2008, 03:59 PM
Let me add some historical perspective. I have been listening to rock music for approximately 35 of my 46 years now. At any single given point in time during those 35 years, I'd say about 90% of the bands out there sucked. That percentage seemed lower to me (like, more like 60%) when I was between the ages of 16 and 20 but I think that was more cuz some shit that seemed new and special to me then was really just retread stuff. In retrospect I think the 90% was the right number all along.

New bands are gonna come along and get hyped up and you're gonna say "wtf these guys are really nothing special" and you'll be right. Vampire Weekend being 2008's soon-to-be-forgotten flavor du jour. In 1980 people (me included) thought the B-52s were revolutionary and were going to change rock n roll.

All of this gets a big 'so what?' from me. I think all you can do is listen to music you like and like the music you listen to and don't worry bout the other stuff. That Who video I posted is from a concert 25 years ago and the song was 10 years old when they played it: "rock is dead" is an old idea.

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 04:04 PM
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/RetardoTronFiveThousand/townsend.jpg

Didn't they both get busted for child porn? I wonder if that's why they were hangin out.

TomAz
07-22-2008, 04:06 PM
all charges against Pete were dropped.

mountmccabe
07-22-2008, 04:17 PM
Well said (re: Tom's comments 18 minutes ago.) I don't understand the concern with singles and Mega Bands. The only good from that set-up is a false collective experience bit.

Rock music (used broadly) is better now than it has been at any time in the past. People can listen to what they want; there are a ton of bands out there to be found.

And the line about "crossover acts becoming rarer" is ridiculous; the crossing of genres is what is causing the subdivision of categories. Albums of Southern rock-jam band-funk is not something we saw 20 years ago.

At any rate, those categories and sub divisions aren't important, the music is. Everyone else in the country listening to the band you like (which never happened anyway) isn't important, the music is.

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 04:20 PM
Rock music (used broadly) is better now than it has been at any time in the past.

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/attachments/month_0603/wtf_cat.jpg.w300h371_HeOTTJstzM5Z.jpg

mountmccabe
07-22-2008, 04:25 PM
Any chance the future of rock is increasingly small, specialized, and cool, and we've seen the last of Super Nova Mega bands? Or am I totally wrong and looking for clues about rock's health in the wrong places?

Small, specialized and cool != unhealthy


The Mega bands doesn't happen to the extent that it has in the past because there is more competition, both from Mega bands of the past that people still listen to and go see in concert and from better indie and non-label distribution for what would otherwise be local/regional bands.

And these are both great things.

kreutz2112
07-22-2008, 04:25 PM
I agree with John and Tom.

TomAz
07-22-2008, 04:27 PM
Rock music (used broadly) is better now than it has been at any time in the past. People can listen to what they want; there are a ton of bands out there to be found.

on top of that: everything that used to be good is available today PLUS all the new bands. hippies got hendrix and the beatles. today we can have hendrix and the beatles and radiohead and bjork. we win.



Albums of Southern rock-jam band-funk is not something we saw 20 years ago.

http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/L/little_feat_waitingf.jpg

Cdubby
07-22-2008, 04:27 PM
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t39/RetardoTronFiveThousand/townsend.jpg


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=164674399

such a great band, could be the next great american rock band, from england.

mountmccabe
07-22-2008, 04:30 PM
on top of that: everything that used to be good is available today PLUS all the new bands. hippies got hendrix and the beatles. today we can have hendrix and the beatles and radiohead and bjork. we win.

Yes.




http://tralfaz-archives.com/coverart/L/little_feat_waitingf.jpg

Oh, Tom. That was thirty years ago.

stinkbutt
07-22-2008, 04:32 PM
on top of that: everything that used to be good is available today PLUS all the new bands. hippies got hendrix and the beatles. today we can have hendrix and the beatles and radiohead and bjork. we win.

Oh I get what you are all saying now yeah you guys are right. I thought mountmccabe was saying popular music now then it ever was.

Dreamer4Ever
07-22-2008, 04:45 PM
People can listen to what they want; there are a ton of bands out there to be found.

How do you find them?

Not sarcastic: serious question.

mountmccabe
07-22-2008, 04:54 PM
Oh I get what you are all saying now yeah you guys are right. I thought mountmccabe was saying popular music now then it ever was.

I agree with what Tom said but that isn't quite what I meant.

Also I didn't mean anything about "popular music" or "music on the radio" or anything like that.

I do mean that the current musical output - taking into account availability of recordings and shows - is better than at any time in the past.

I do not mean that there is a higher percentage of quality music, I do not mean that there are bands now that everybody should be listening to.

I mean that there are a thousand bands touring so it doesn't matter if 700 of them aren't worth my time and another 200 aren't anything to rave about.

I mean that each Tuesday there are albums I want; there are too many albums released for me to keep up with. And that's just the stuff I know I want to listen to.

I'm not saying _____ released this year is better than Blonde on Blonde or Sgt Pepper's or War or whatever. That's not at all what I'm after. You can't judge this shit on the freaks of nature.

What is awesome about Coachella isn't that all 120 bands are worth seeing; it's not that there is one headliner that everybody has to see; it's that there are a ton of options so that a huge variety of people can be happy. It doesn't matter that some bad bands play Coachella, what matters is that a lot of great and amazing ones do. And it's better for everybody involved when we all want to see a different selection of bands.

There's better selection now than there ever has been.

mountmccabe
07-22-2008, 05:12 PM
How do you find them?

Not sarcastic: serious question.

Compilations and mp3 mixes. Friends/people on the internet talking intelligently and informationally about them ("____ are the best band ever" is neither intelligent nor informational.) mp3 blogs. Reading a variety of album reviews (go to www.metacritic.com/music.) Allmusic.com has an extensive set of reviews and a good set-up, showing influences and related bands and similar bands and descendant bands and such.

By listening when friends/venues/bars/record stores are playing music and asking about stuff you like.

Label and band websites often have free mp3s to download and/or videos to watch (matador.com and subpop.com are good at this.) Many bands will have a MySpace page with music and sometimes video. Some online record retailers like Insound.com have additional free mp3s to listen to.

Web 2.0 sites like Pandora.com and Last.fm both allow you to explore bands and listen to music. There are other online music listening options like Rhapsody and such. There are (I've heard) good radio shows available on satellite radio. And some cities/college towns even have decent radio stations... and many of these are available to stream online.

Buy CDs. Many (real) CD shops have listening stations and give away free compilations with purchase and have in-store shows and knowledgeable staff.

Go to shows and pay attention to all the acts performing, even/especially the local openers. Which is another thing - huge arena tours generally don't have local openers and are hell of expensive and overblown. Go to the small venues with lots of cheap shows. Check their upcoming shows lists and look into those bands... and if they sound interesting/different/promising/amazing then go see them live.

Serious answers.

woogie846
07-22-2008, 05:48 PM
And he is also known as Will Farrel

I'm relieved to know I'm not the only one who thinks this.

menikmati
07-22-2008, 06:13 PM
Who cares who is the next "big" american rock band, or if there are any, or what makes em one.....just listen to whatever bands you like/catch your attention, you'll find a lot of treats out there. Explosions in the Sky are 10x better than say the fuckin Foo Fighters these days.

RotationSlimWang
07-22-2008, 07:43 PM
If there were a "last great" band it would have to be one I started, naturally. And there's a shitload better American rock music out right now than any other fucking country in the world which is new--it's been England for decades now. There's fucking tons of great music coming out right now in America, the dumb cunt from RHCP who hasn't been relevant for over a decade and a half should just shut the fuck up.

Sexecutioner
07-22-2008, 07:44 PM
Let me add some historical perspective. I have been listening to rock music for approximately 35 of my 46 years now. At any single given point in time during those 35 years, I'd say about 90% of the bands out there sucked. That percentage seemed lower to me (like, more like 60%) when I was between the ages of 16 and 20 but I think that was more cuz some shit that seemed new and special to me then was really just retread stuff. In retrospect I think the 90% was the right number all along.

I go back and forth with myself about this. I feel like when I was in high school, there were so many bands coming out that i really loved, and still love to this day, and it seems like today there arent that many bands coming out that do the same thing for me. i figure one of the following is true:

a) rock music has gotten worse
b) those bands came along when i was more impressionable, and therefore they hold a special place in my heart that today's bands just cant replicate because im now a different (maybe more jaded) person musically. kind of like a first love. its never the same after.

to give you an idea of where im coming from, i went to high school in the 90s, when bands like pearl jam, nirvana, aic, tool, janes addiction, radiohead, rage, pixies, pumpkins, chilli peppers were all making names for themselves. and those are just off the top of my head. i cant name half that many rock bands coming out today that i think are half as good as any of those bands were (or still are, in some cases). hell, even the playlists of all todays rock radio stations still consist of about 50% 90's alternative rock . maybe i got lucky and grew up during an exciting time for rock, or maybe im just one of those grumpy old men who cant seem to appreciate all the new sounds.

edit: dont get me wrong, there is plenty of new music i really like, but a lot of it just doesnt seem to hit me like it used to.

Backwater
07-22-2008, 08:15 PM
I'm younger than you (high school 00-04) but I feel the exact same way. I don't think you're grumpy or jaded. Popular rock music just isn't as good right now as it was in the 90's. However, I think and hope that in 5-10 years it will be as good as it was in the early to mid 90's again. When flamer emo bands are topping the charts you know there's a problem. As Zakk Wylde said, "When did it become cool to sing like a pussy? Did I miss something here?"

suprefan
07-22-2008, 08:42 PM
How do you find them?

Not sarcastic: serious question.

Why dont you start by looking at the line up for this years coachella, going through every single name and listening, and see what you like. thats the point of a festival, to find new bands for example. then lets say, you go see that band play, they have 2 other bands opening for them who you might have never heard of, but you like one of them cause they sound good and whatnot. So you keep repeating the process, than you just try and find bands similar to whatever it is you discovered in the first place, and so on and so on. We all have it very easy now to find stuff. Pretty much every band a has a myspace, or some site thats streaming their music so people can listen to. And everyone here is discussing what they are listening to, so curiosity sometimes and helpful opinions get you going too. Back in the day (this is before napster of course for me lets say) you had to listen to the radio(any kind), go to record stores and chat with the clerks about what was up and coming, going to shows, reading music magazines etc etc. So yeah, go start finding stuff, look in the ''what are you listening to now'' thread and see what is being listened to and check it out if thats ur cup of tea.



I am in the same boat as Sexecutioner, you know Pixies, Radiohead, Nirvana, U2 thats what I had playing on the radio, or cassette player(cd finally when Iw as like 13) thats what was being engrained into my mind. Now you cant find something on that level, cause it all stems from them in some way.

humanoid
07-22-2008, 08:43 PM
I think rock may be dead if you limit your definition of rock music to one very specific style, but if you broaden your horizons and are willing to accept different variants on the rock theme, it is absolutely alive and well, as it always is

bballarl
07-22-2008, 08:47 PM
Rock n' roll doesn't die. Music and pop culture goes in cycles. Guitar music will dominate again soon.

TomAz
07-23-2008, 07:22 AM
to give you an idea of where im coming from, i went to high school in the 90s, when bands like pearl jam, nirvana, aic, tool, janes addiction, radiohead, rage, pixies, pumpkins, chilli peppers were all making names for themselves. and those are just off the top of my head.

See I think it has more to do with impressionability than anything. And yeah those things tend to stick with you -- you make the emotional connection when you're 18 and it doesnt' go away.

To me, 1980 seems like one of the greatest years in rock history. London Calling, Remain in Light, the first Pretenders album all came out that year. The River. Dirty Mind. Get Happy. the first Gang of Four album. PiL's Second Edition. Peter Gabriel's 3rd (& best) album. "Love Will Tear Us Apart". the first X album. all in one fucking calendar year. it still amazes me. of course that was the year I turned 18... coincidence?

mountmccabe
07-23-2008, 11:50 AM
If pressed I might point to 1995. I was 19 most of that year.

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, The Bends, Mercury, Elastica, Sixteen Stone, Garbage, 1. Outside,... and that's just the stuff I knew then and can think of now and am willing to admit to.

Hmm. At one point it was 1995, I think. But maybe it has since shifted to 2002 or 1998 or something. Hmm. More research is necessary.

bmack86
07-23-2008, 12:19 PM
I've been really in love with the past few years. The music coming out right now is so exciting to me that I'm rarely listening to older albums.

wmgaretjax
07-23-2008, 12:52 PM
I've been really in love with the past few years. The music coming out right now is so exciting to me that I'm rarely listening to older albums.

I'm in the same boat. Something happened in the 1999-2001 range and since then music has taken a turn that is fucking thrilling. In the 90s I listened to a lot of old stuff and then a spattering of indie and electronic. Now I rarely revisit anything other than masterpieces that are more than 10 years old.

TomAz
07-23-2008, 12:56 PM
I've been really in love with the past few years. The music coming out right now is so exciting to me that I'm rarely listening to older albums.

and you're like 21. ha ha.

frozen pilgrim
07-23-2008, 01:20 PM
I don't think chad smith was referring to rock as meaning the entirety of guitar driven music. I think he was talking more specifically about slightly heavier, groove-oriented bands. uplift mofo era chilis. kyuss/queens/desert sessions. pearl jam. funkadelic (they had as much hard rock guitar influence as fuck drumming. they were a genius hybrid). my morning jacket. bands that are physically capable of and willing to rock the fuck out

frozen pilgrim
07-23-2008, 01:24 PM
I would like to offer my own version of the plea to the world's youth-
please, kids. remember something- making music is not about getting rich, or having the most myspace friends, or having pitchfork give you five stars.
music is about expressing feelings that cannot otherwise be expressed. one of those feelings is groove. groove, vibe, -hell, even a high- it's all the same thing, and it's inexpressible except through art.
that feeling is, I find, absent in much of today's calculatedly obtuse independent music.

in the words of the legendary bassmaster victor wooten:

you can't hold no groove, if you ain't got no pocket.

bmack86
07-23-2008, 01:28 PM
and you're like 21. ha ha.

We young uns are takin' over, gramps, and you'd better watch it. We've got terrorist fist jabs and hip hop muzak.

frozen pilgrim
07-23-2008, 01:32 PM
"terrorist fist jab" is the second best utterance of the primary campaigns.

the best being "spearchuckers"

bballarl
07-23-2008, 01:50 PM
I tend to forget about new releases because I spend so much time exploring forgotten bands, or old bands I was unfamiliar with. Maybe this will change as I get older.

rage patton
07-23-2008, 01:57 PM
In 10 years, this exact same conversation will be talking place. People will be naming all the great and classic albums that came out in 2008 and how little has come out in the years since then.

Tylerdurden31
07-23-2008, 02:45 PM
I've been really in love with the past few years. The music coming out right now is so exciting to me that I'm rarely listening to older albums.


I'm in the same boat. Something happened in the 1999-2001 range and since then music has taken a turn that is fucking thrilling. In the 90s I listened to a lot of old stuff and then a spattering of indie and electronic. Now I rarely revisit anything other than masterpieces that are more than 10 years old.

I'm almost in the same boat.

Grew up with the Seattle scene and the 90s punk. Some of it I still love. Then my 2nd year of college I was introduced to Massive Attack, Mogwai, Modest Mouse and it kinda snowballed from there. Nowadays I listen to mostly new stuff, but I like to go back and discover the classics and those that have influenced who I like now.

RotationSlimWang
07-23-2008, 02:47 PM
If pressed I might point to 1995. I was 19 most of that year.

Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, The Bends, Mercury, Elastica, Sixteen Stone, Garbage, 1. Outside,... and that's just the stuff I knew then and can think of now and am willing to admit to.

Hmm. At one point it was 1995, I think. But maybe it has since shifted to 2002 or 1998 or something. Hmm. More research is necessary.

You're only seven years older than me? Wow, I would never have thought that. But way to not be as old as Tom.

BlackSwan
07-23-2008, 03:18 PM
I go back and forth with myself about this. I feel like when I was in high school, there were so many bands coming out that i really loved, and still love to this day, and it seems like today there arent that many bands coming out that do the same thing for me. i figure one of the following is true:

b) those bands came along when i was more impressionable, and therefore they hold a special place in my heart that today's bands just cant replicate because im now a different (maybe more jaded) person musically. kind of like a first love. its never the same after.

edit: dont get me wrong, there is plenty of new music i really like, but a lot of it just doesnt seem to hit me like it used to.


See I think it has more to do with impressionability than anything. And yeah those things tend to stick with you -- you make the emotional connection when you're 18 and it doesnt' go away.


I agree with this.

thewindowliquor
07-23-2008, 03:20 PM
I would like to offer my own version of the plea to the world's youth-
please, kids. remember something- making music is not about getting rich, or having the most myspace friends, or having pitchfork give you five stars.
music is about expressing feelings that cannot otherwise be expressed. one of those feelings is groove. groove, vibe, -hell, even a high- it's all the same thing, and it's inexpressible except through art.
that feeling is, I find, absent in much of today's calculatedly obtuse independent music.

in the words of the legendary bassmaster victor wooten:

you can't hold no groove, if you ain't got no pocket.

You're kinda preaching to the choir I think.. but that's a nice quote from my man vic wooten.

BROKENDOLL
07-23-2008, 03:30 PM
If there were a "last great" band it would have to be one I started, naturally. And there's a shitload better American rock music out right now than any other fucking country in the world which is new--it's been England for decades now. There's fucking tons of great music coming out right now in America, the dumb cunt from RHCP who hasn't been relevant for over a decade and a half should just shut the fuck up. Just what the music industry needs...Skin-flute Rock. (Sorry, I couldn't help it!)

Down Rodeo
07-29-2008, 10:48 PM
I've been really in love with the past few years. The music coming out right now is so exciting to me that I'm rarely listening to older albums.


I'm in the same boat. Something happened in the 1999-2001 range and since then music has taken a turn that is fucking thrilling. In the 90s I listened to a lot of old stuff and then a spattering of indie and electronic. Now I rarely revisit anything other than masterpieces that are more than 10 years old.

Name some of your favorites so I can check them out.

bmack86
07-29-2008, 11:10 PM
Besides bands that have played Coachella, I really love Deerhunter, No Age, Joanna Newsom, HEALTH, The Mae Shi, Liars and so on and so forth. High Places have been my recent love.

JSam67
07-29-2008, 11:22 PM
My Morning Jacket is pretty great. The Raconteurs could be with another album or two. Other than those two, I can't think of any great current American rock bands.

bmack86
07-29-2008, 11:35 PM
That's a great post to come directly after mine.

jazzz
07-29-2008, 11:43 PM
STAN RIDGEWAY!!!!!!

Pixiessp
07-30-2008, 11:28 AM
See I think it has more to do with impressionability than anything. And yeah those things tend to stick with you -- you make the emotional connection when you're 18 and it doesnt' go away.

To me, 1980 seems like one of the greatest years in rock history. London Calling, Remain in Light, the first Pretenders album all came out that year. The River. Dirty Mind. Get Happy. the first Gang of Four album. PiL's Second Edition. Peter Gabriel's 3rd (& best) album. "Love Will Tear Us Apart". the first X album. all in one fucking calendar year. it still amazes me. of course that was the year I turned 18... coincidence?

that was a great year for music Tom.

|\| | |/|
07-30-2008, 11:31 AM
Only people who actually think the Grammys are important would think that rock is dying.