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VirtualRog
03-24-2008, 04:54 PM
Unfortunately, Pink Floyd’s best record, hands down, was never released.

The follow-up to Dark Side of the Moon was originally titled "Shine On" and scheduled for release in January, 1975, but never made it into your corner record store’s plywood bins. Why? Roger Waters wanted to tweak it some more, even though the band had been playing and refining it extensively in 1974.

Big mistake.

The rest of the band, especially Rick and Dave, were quite happy with the final product, but Roger got his way and sadly it never saw the light of day. Most people familiar with the band know the three songs well: "Raving and Drooling", "(You) Gotta Be Crazy" and "Shine On You Crazy Diamond".

“Raving and Drooling” was reworked into an inferior version called "Sheep" while "Gotta Be Crazy" became "Dogs" which is very simliar to the slower version of "Gotta Be Crazy". It didn't have quite the drop off “Raving and Drooling” had when it became “Sheep”, but it was also an inferior, overproduced mess compared to the original version. The original fast version of "Gotta Be Crazy" was leaner and meaner, and very different, especially lyrically. In fact, here's a treat for ya'll...the original lyrics to "Gotta Be Crazy" last played the second night of Floyd's infamous 1975 set of shows at the Los Angeles Sports Arena (subsequently raided by then LAPD Chief Ed Davis):

-You gotta be crazy
You gotta be mean
You gotta keep your kids and your car clean
You gotta keep climbing
You gotta keep fit
You gotta keep smiling
You gotta eat shit

You gotta be small to be a big shot
You gotta eat meat to stay at the top
You gotta be trusted
You gotta tell lies
You gotta be able to narrow you eyes

You gotta believe they've gotta believe you
You gotta appear easy to see through
You gotta be sure you look good on the TV
You gotta resemble a human being

You gotta keep one eye over your shoulder
Gonna get harder as you get older
Gotta fly south and hide in the sand
Gotta forget that you're gonna get cancer

And when you loose control
You'll reap the harvest you have sown
And as the fear grows
The bad blood slows and turns to stone

And it's too late to loose the weight
You used to need to throw around
So have a good drown
As you go down
Alone
Dragged down by the stone

Gotta be sure, you gotta be quick
Gotta divide the tame from the sick
Gotta keep some of us docile and fit
You gotta keep everyone burying this shit

Gotta get you started early
Processed by the time you're thirty
Work like fuck 'till you're sixty five
And then your time's your own until you die

I gotta admit to a lot of confusion
Pain in the head is the child of collusion
Gotta resist the creeping malaise
You gotta believe in the way you get out of the maze

But you, you just keep on pretending
You can tell a sucker from a friend
But you still raise the knife to
Stranger, lover, friend and foe alike

Who was born in a house full of pain
Who was sent out to play on his own
Who was raised on a diet of shame
Who was trained not to spit in the fan
Who was told what to do by the man
Who was broken by trained personnel
Who was fitted with bridle and bit
Who was given a seat in the stand
Who was forcing his way to the rails
Who was offered a place on the board
Who was only a stranger at home
Who was ground down in the end
Who was found dead on the phone
Who was dragged down by the stone-

Oh, why not...here's "Raving and Drooling" too...still my favorite Floyd track...and a close second to "Gotta be Crazy":

-Raving and drooling I fell on his neck with a scream
He had a whole lotta terminal shock in his eyes
That's what you get for pretending the rest are not real

Babbling and snapping at far away flies
He will zig zag his way back through memories of boredom and pain

How does it feel to be empty and angry and spaced...
...Split up the middle between the illusion of safety in numbers
and the fist in your face

-or-

...Split up the middle between the illusion of safety in numbers and being brought down to his knees-

Roger changed the lyrics to these tracks so often Dave was forced to tape them to his guitar (by the way, I just transcribed these off the top of my head).

“Shine On You Crazy Diamond” ended up being two-thirds of the album Wish You Were Here while “Dogs” and “Sheep” make-up 75% of Animals. So the original follow-up to Dark Side was not only one of the best records ever made, but a pretty good value, too.

Roger Waters made a HUGE mistake not listening to the rest of the band and releasing those three songs as is...his inflated ego got the best of him...it wasn’t the first time...and certainly not the last. He made so many mistakes due to his superiority complex...Pink Floyd should have never stopped making records with him in charge. His fault all the way, starting with some petty argument with their late manager, Steve O’Rourke.

Bootlegs of the live version of the original follow-up Dark Side of the Moon are readily available and have been for years, but to hard-core Pink Floyd fans, the TRUE Holy Grail are the studio versions of those three tracks, which, according to Rick Wright in a Melody Maker article titled “PINK FLOYD ALL WRIGHT NOW” were basically complete in late 1974.

I have six different live versions of those songs, the highest quality being Moving Time, recorded on the third night of the Sports Arena shows, which I attended (and was also subsequently arrested by the LAPD on the fourth night).

If anyone knows anything about studio versions of those songs...please don’t keep it to yourself. I can’t imagine the value of something like that...the unreleased follow-up to the biggest selling recording of all time?

Gotta be worth some big bucks, eh?

humanoid
03-24-2008, 04:56 PM
thats a cool bunch info that I wasn't familiar with....but I do have to say that I still really dig Animals as well

thelastgreatman
03-24-2008, 04:58 PM
... it's their best album that was never released based on those three songs?

CalmerThanYou
03-24-2008, 05:00 PM
Wish You Were Here - Emotional Win

Dark Side of the Moon - Tripper Win

Animals - Themed Win

Meddle - Well, what can be said about Echoes...


- Nice info btw.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2008, 05:02 PM
Animals has the theme win? Really? Not The Wall? Fuck, the extent to which he made it a theme album is the only thing that makes up for it's worse ratio of good tracks to meh tracks.

VirtualRog
03-24-2008, 05:12 PM
thats a cool bunch info that I wasn't familiar with....but I do have to say that I still really dig Animals as well


Animals is all right...definitely an overproduced ego trip from Roger...but I do like "Pigs" very much.

VirtualRog
03-24-2008, 05:14 PM
... it's their best album that was never released based on those three songs?

Well, Great Man, you do the math...take 66% of Wish You Were Here and combine it with 75% of Animals and I do believe you have one heck of an album...and the orginal versions of "Dogs" and "Sheep" are vastly superior, especially Wright's keyboard work on "Raving and Drooling".

BrettShipes
03-24-2008, 05:15 PM
The live version Les Claypool's Frog Brigade cover of Animals is the best. :P

VirtualRog
03-24-2008, 05:18 PM
The live version Les Claypool's Frog Brigade cover of Animals is the best. :P

Claypool's Animals is killer no doubt, especially "Sheep".

thelastgreatman
03-24-2008, 05:26 PM
Well, Great Man, you do the math...take 66% of Wish You Were Here and combine it with 75% of Animals and I do believe you have one heck of an album...and the orginal versions of "Dogs" and "Sheep" are vastly superior, especially Wright's keyboard work on "Raving and Drooling".

Um... sorry, but Shine On doesn't count as 66 percent of Wish You Were Here. That's just really, really silly. Wish as it exists beats Animals hands down by a mile, so why the fuck would just one of the songs off Wish and two of the songs off Animals make the best album?

CalmerThanYou
03-24-2008, 05:27 PM
Animals has the theme win? Really? Not The Wall? Fuck, the extent to which he made it a theme album is the only thing that makes up for it's worse ratio of good tracks to meh tracks.

Good point Randy...

When it comes to the Wall, i am kinda odd about it. I dont think of it so much as an "album" as i think about it as some crazy composition (Broadway Act). Your ratio is right on, and unless i can invest a couple hours into it, i typically stay away.

I personally really liked Animals...some good tracks in my opinion.

Obscured By Clouds is an often overlooked poppy, but FUN album.

UmmaGumma is my acid trip when i dont have any to eat.

Fun Fact: My mom surprised me when i was 16 with the original, nearly perfect condition LP's of WYWH, DSOTM, and The Wall. I was stoked. It's amazing how incredible they sound coming off a record player. The scratchiness in WYWH really adds to the album ten fold...

jazzz
03-24-2008, 05:28 PM
Reading interviews with Roger over the last few years it seems he has realized his ego was a problem. I love Pink Floyd and I think Roger's writing with David's melody's always made them great.

zenidogx
03-24-2008, 06:04 PM
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Animals are the three greatest albums ever released in succession. end of story.

verveman77
03-24-2008, 06:07 PM
nobody mentions the wall at all?? this was a rock masterpiece. of coarse Dark side is the best album. But the Wall Is #2 by far.

zenidogx
03-24-2008, 06:12 PM
nobody mentions the wall at all?? this was a rock masterpiece. of coarse Dark side is the best album. But the Wall Is #2 by far.

i can't understand the wall, really. it's good, but it gets too out of control for me. great fucking songs, yes. but as a whole, it doesn't seem to work out as well as waters wanted it too. for me, the Wall is like the Beatles' White Album. both albums have signature songs, but both albums fail to represent the BAND as a whole. DSOTM WYWH Animals capture pink floyd at their best.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2008, 06:18 PM
The Wall = The White Album is a good comparison. The first disc of The White Album is all great--the second is practically unlistenable except for two or three songs. The Wall has the same ratio problem but spread out evenly throughout both discs.

VirtualRog
03-24-2008, 07:54 PM
Um... sorry, but Shine On doesn't count as 66 percent of Wish You Were Here. That's just really, really silly. Wish as it exists beats Animals hands down by a mile, so why the fuck would just one of the songs off Wish and two of the songs off Animals make the best album?

Jesus, calm down...man, people on these message boards are so freaking touchy.

That me re-phrase it for you if it makes you feel better...ahem (clears throat)...IN MY OPINION...Pink Floyd's best recording was never officially released...although Dave and Rick sure seemed to share my opinion at the time.

Fucking dick...if you want to split hairs, the actual length of the songs are:

Welcome to the Machine 7:30
Wish You Were Here 5:00
Have a Cigar 5:30

So approximately eighteen minutes as compared to over twenty-six minutes for Shine On, which equals approximately 60% of the LP's running length...I estimated it it off the top of my head....I was off by 6%...big fuck, assholio.

I've been a Floyd fan snce the Hollywood Bowl show in September 1972...seen Roger's Floyd twenty-five times...Roger over fifty and Dave's Pink Fraud ten times (ha...what a joke...pure unadulterated cheese)...

...nothing was close to the Raving and Drooling shows...those three songs were the best...once again...calm the fuck down...just my humble little opinion.

Shine On was not a full blown concept album, but there was an obvious theme...it was about...um...let's see...MADNESS! (hint: the use of the word 'crazy' in the title of two tracks)

I made friends with two women that worked for Capitol Records, Pink Floyd's label at the time Dark Side was released, and their label at the time they were about to release Shine On. One worked in A & R, the other in promotions. I was in close contact with them and monitored Floyd's progress through them...in fact, I still have the orginal press release from Capitol stating the release date and the album title:

Pink Floyd: Shine On - January 15th, 1975

After Roger decided to re-work the record, Floyd toured the states, and while in LA...and after meeting with the head of their new label, Columbia Records, Roger penned "Have a Cigar" and it was inserted into the middle of "Shine On You Crazy Diamond" in LA during the sold-out five show run at the Sports Arena. He changed the lyrics and song structure for "Gotta Be Crazy" and the new version made it's debut, along with "Have a Cigar" during the LA shows.

Pink Floyd eventually released Wish You Were Here on September 15th, 1975. It eventually went to #2 on the Billboard charts. I acutally went in the US Navy the day it was released, but talked a clerk that worked at Licorce Pizza into selling me the record the day before it was released so I could give it a spin before heading off to boot camp. I hated it, especially "Have a Cigar"...undoubtedly because I was upset there was no "Gotta Be Crazy" or "Raving and Drooling." I thought it sucked. And why di the Floyd let someone else sing "Have a Cigar"?? Blasphemy!

Of course, I was wrong. Wish You Were here is Floyd's finest work...and the last true Pink Floyd LP. The rest are nothing more than glorified Roger Waters solo records.

I wish the Floyd had released the original version. I still believe it was their best effort.

Whatever...I'm sure some people think More is their best record...to each his own.

More fun trivia: An employee of Licorce Pizza on Sunset across from Tower Records held a pink vinyl Animals for me that I never could afford...he was an aspiring artist and tried to sell me a comic book he was drawing about a bunch of rabbits...he went onto great fame.

thelastgreatman
03-24-2008, 08:19 PM
What in the fuck was remotely touchy about my response? What are you getting all excited about? All I did was point out that you're talking about three songs.

Yeah, I know you're calculating the actual time length in saying that Shine On is the majority of Wish, that's obvious. But I don't think that you can really say one incredibly long song (frankly WAY too fucking long IMO) is more music than three unique songs, especially when they're that good.

You really don't like Cigar? Yeah, they brought in that folk singer dude, which is unusual, but fuck, man... that's the song that actually got me into Floyd.

BROKENDOLL
03-25-2008, 12:47 AM
What in the fuck was remotely touchy about my response? What are you getting all excited about? All I did was point out that you're talking about three songs.

Yeah, I know you're calculating the actual time length in saying that Shine On is the majority of Wish, that's obvious. But I don't think that you can really say one incredibly long song (frankly WAY too fucking long IMO) is more music than three unique songs, especially when they're that good.

You really don't like Cigar? Yeah, they brought in that folk singer dude, which is unusual, but fuck, man... that's the song that actually got me into Floyd. Randy, shut the fuck up already and accept the fact that this guys knowledge of Pink Floyd and the history behind their albums has far exceded our wanting to hear your introduction to Pink Floyd...

BROKENDOLL
03-25-2008, 12:49 AM
BTW...Virtualrog~ Great imformation there, thanks! Oh...And have a cigar!

im so indie
03-25-2008, 01:18 AM
More fun trivia: An employee of Licorce Pizza on Sunset across from Tower Records held a pink vinyl Animals for me that I never could afford...he was an aspiring artist and tried to sell me a comic book he was drawing about a bunch of rabbits...he went onto great fame.

I can't think of who you'd be referring to...?

jazzz
03-25-2008, 01:25 AM
wow! Licorce Pizza!!! I spent many hours in that place when I was 8 or 9 yrs old. That's where I bought the 1st SPECIALS record. and the hot girls behind the counter used to give you a piece of black licorce on the way out. The free BAM mag was there too.

humanoid
03-25-2008, 02:10 AM
I've been a Floyd fan snce the Hollywood Bowl show in September 1972...seen Roger's Floyd twenty-five times...Roger over fifty and Dave's Pink Fraud ten times (ha...what a joke...pure unadulterated cheese)...



I'm sufficiently jealous now....unfortunately I wasn't born in time to witness Roger's Floyd.....or Syd's Floyd(Only in my dreams) or flashbacks......I was only able to see Dave's Pink Fraud! Thankfully over the last 10 years or so, I've been fortunate to see Roger several times...and looking forward to once more in the desert!

DrDank551
03-25-2008, 02:21 AM
This thread definitely needs one of these passed around!!!
http://mythicaldude.typepad.com/mythicaldude/images/bogart.jpg

humanoid
03-25-2008, 02:31 AM
This thread definitely needs one of these passed around!!!
http://mythicaldude.typepad.com/mythicaldude/images/bogart.jpg

that might help

CalmerThanYou
03-25-2008, 09:40 AM
My Dad saw them in Anaheim Stadium (1974?) for...err...i think it was the Animals tour. He said the production back then was insane.

I have a feeling Roger wants this big time = COACHELLA PERFORMANCE.

Blinken
03-25-2008, 10:05 AM
More fun trivia: An employee of Licorce Pizza on Sunset across from Tower Records held a pink vinyl Animals for me that I never could afford...he was an aspiring artist and tried to sell me a comic book he was drawing about a bunch of rabbits...he went onto great fame.

That is pretty cool. You should have bought that comic it would probably be worth some serious dough, and pretty fucking cool to have.

satori777
03-25-2008, 10:17 AM
The Wall = The White Album is a good comparison. The first disc of The White Album is all great--the second is practically unlistenable except for two or three songs. The Wall has the same ratio problem but spread out evenly throughout both discs.

I think it's a mistake to seperate The Wall in to individual tracks. It seems like an entire piece...like you wouldn't pick out a few brush strokes of a painting and say you didn't like those strokes in relation to the whole painting...

I have a hard on for The Wall by the way...

the andalusian dog
03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Animals are the three greatest albums ever released in succession. end of story.

sorry but Let it Bleed, Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street trumps your Floyd (and I love Floyd). all within 4 years and what the hell, let's throw in Beggars Banquet for the hell of it...

TomAz
03-25-2008, 11:35 AM
The Wall is piece of shit sellout pop swill. it was PFs big cash-in. it's dull and overproduced and not the least bit interesting. It's slick and bloated corporate greed-rock, a major disappointment compared to DSOTM, WYWH, and Animals.

TomAz
03-25-2008, 11:38 AM
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Animals are the three greatest albums ever released in succession. end of story.

dumb. I can name half a dozen three piece suits better than this without even thinking very hard about it.


nobody mentions the wall at all?? this was a rock masterpiece. of coarse Dark side is the best album. But the Wall Is #2 by far.

dumber

inutil
03-25-2008, 01:29 PM
nobody mentions the wall at all?? this was a rock masterpiece. of coarse Dark side is the best album. But the Wall Is #2 by far.

i'm not one to bash, but you got it all wrong... keep listening.

bigc1
03-25-2008, 01:33 PM
http://blog-rock.info/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/pinkfloyd-album-piper_at_the_gates_of_dawn.jpg

Pixiessp
03-25-2008, 01:39 PM
Good point Randy...



When it comes to the Wall, i am kinda odd about it. I dont think of it so much as an "album" as i think about it as some crazy composition (Broadway Act). Your ratio is right on, and unless i can invest a couple hours into it, i typically stay away.

I personally really liked Animals...some good tracks in my opinion.

Obscured By Clouds is an often overlooked poppy, but FUN album.

UmmaGumma is my acid trip when i dont have any to eat.

Fun Fact: My mom surprised me when i was 16 with the original, nearly perfect condition LP's of WYWH, DSOTM, and The Wall. I was stoked. It's amazing how incredible they sound coming off a record player. The scratchiness in WYWH really adds to the album ten fold...



umma gumma is one of Robert Smith's favorite albums. read that somewhere years ago.

jonnypark
03-25-2008, 01:40 PM
cool info, I've never listened to animals and probably should check it out

of what I've listened to I'd rank it as such,

Wish You Were Here>
Dark Side Of The Moon>
The Final Cut = The Wall (I still hold both in high regard)