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View Full Version : Roger Waters, music legend?



zenidogx
03-17-2008, 12:05 AM
well, is he?

Cheddar's Cousin
03-17-2008, 07:25 AM
Roger is no Ringo.

ivankay
03-17-2008, 07:54 AM
Wow, this is one of those "Are you really asking that question?" questions. If you have any doubt, who is considered a music legend? What has to be your criteria? Crikey.

jonnypark
03-17-2008, 08:32 AM
If there is anydoubt in your mind it will be resolved Sunday night, April 27th.

MassiveChemicalPunk
03-17-2008, 11:03 AM
Pink Floyd as a group are legends. You can coun't Zep there too.

On the other hand, all the Beatles members became legends by themselves and as a band.

Astrid
03-17-2008, 04:45 PM
to all the people who responded he IS pink floyd...do you just not know shit about pink floyd? or are you saying he is your favorite member/was the most influential on the band?

i can accept that people like him the most, but he IS NOT pink floyd. thats like saying lennon IS the beatles. fucking false.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
03-17-2008, 04:49 PM
I was somewhat in the middle...Yeah Roger was in Pink Floyd...but they did get loads crappier after he left....After that it was just a Pink Floyd touring band...

dlemma
03-17-2008, 05:51 PM
Waters i'd say was definately the most important part of floyd. wrote most of the lyrics and all the main concepts behind the great albums. DEFINATELY cannot say he WAS floyd though. without gilmour's amazing guitar work, floyd would never have been where they were.

inutil
03-17-2008, 06:34 PM
the albums after roger left the band sound so much like easy listening shit... they lost the raw feeling you found in meddle and a saucerful of secrets and even DSOTM.

Sushov23
03-17-2008, 06:45 PM
he is a LEGEND. But when it comes to Floyd he is in the middle of IS pink floyd, and was a member of floyd. by the way the beatles are all 4, I hate when mutha fuckas say it was only Paul, and John. Get it staright, it was Ringo, John, Paul, and George, SO YEAH

Astrid
03-18-2008, 12:22 AM
Waters i'd say was definately the most important part of floyd. wrote most of the lyrics and all the main concepts behind the great albums. DEFINATELY cannot say he WAS floyd though. without gilmour's amazing guitar work, floyd would never have been where they were.

EXACTLY!!

Weeping Willow
03-18-2008, 04:11 AM
dumb poll

woogie846
03-19-2008, 06:55 PM
obviously he's a musical legend. he was in one of the biggest and most popular bands of all time. this is kind of a no brainer...

fikus222
03-19-2008, 08:35 PM
He's a punk, but its still a good show. David Gilmour RAWKS !!!

thelastgreatman
03-19-2008, 09:38 PM
to all the people who responded he IS pink floyd...do you just not know shit about pink floyd? or are you saying he is your favorite member/was the most influential on the band?

i can accept that people like him the most, but he IS NOT pink floyd. thats like saying lennon IS the beatles. fucking false.

You don't know what you're talking about. No one in this thread seems to. We covered this subject in depth like months ago. Gilmour was basically a studio musician.

paulb
03-19-2008, 10:41 PM
sure, he was in pink floyd....dont really care for him. but he is rather famous.

fikus222
03-19-2008, 11:50 PM
Gilmour was basically a studio musician.

And yet, like all of the greats, he has his own signature sound...one that defines Pink Floyd.

Astrid
03-20-2008, 12:10 AM
You don't know what you're talking about. No one in this thread seems to. We covered this subject in depth like months ago. Gilmour was basically a studio musician.

god you're a douche. there is absolutely no reason for you to assume i don't know what i am talking about from my brief comment. roger waters is not the only thing that made pink floyd great, he is not the entirety of what made the band profound. without his lyrical skills they didnt have shit, as evident in momentary lapse of reason and division bell. but barrett and gilmour were both essential elements.

i realize gilmour's solo work is utter shit. he can't write lyrics to save his life. but he still contributed some epic guitar work. i think animals is proof enough of his worth.

thelastgreatman
03-20-2008, 02:07 PM
Animals? You mean the song where he was only involved in writing the music for one track? Niiiiiice counterpoint.

fikus222
03-20-2008, 02:34 PM
Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here and Meddle are the best albums anyway...the writing credits are in favor of Waters, while the singing credits are in favor of Gilmour.

So as the lead singer and guitarist, Gilmour figures more prominently in my mind.

Astrid
03-20-2008, 08:36 PM
i wasn't talking about writing lyrics, as i stated he SUCKS at writing lyrics. i was talking about his exceptional guitar playing. if gilmour didn't join the band i don't personally think they could have reached the level they did musically, he just worked better in the group than barrett.

though barrett's solo work is far superior to gilmour. and i must say it would have been interesting to see where they would have gone if barrett had remained in the group, i adore him.

thelastgreatman
03-20-2008, 08:45 PM
Gilmour didn't write the shit he played. He was a studio musician. Barrett sucked.

Sonicifyouwantit
03-20-2008, 08:46 PM
yes, yes he is

fikus222
03-20-2008, 08:56 PM
I like how you so easily dismiss one of the top 100 guitarists of all time.

Cheddar's Cousin
03-21-2008, 02:35 PM
Gilmour didn't write the shit he played. He was a studio musician. Barrett sucked.


I hate having to call you an idiot again but...

Of course Gilmour wrote his own parts. Just watch the live at pompeii video. Just listen to his solo albums (I don't care what anyone says, they are good). The style is exactly the same. Gilmour is a musical genius.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Sorry homies. But really, we've been over this in the Roger Waters threads from WAY back. All their actually really good albums--DSOTM, Animals, Wish, The Wall--Waters has at least 80 percent of the writing credits. Music as well as lyrics. Plus he's the reason they made concept albums, and concept tours, which is the real reason they're the exceptional legends they are. Gilmour's great, I never said he wasn't, but he wasn't Pink. Waters kinda was.

I'm not getting into this argument again. Anybody that knows Floyd knows the answer to this. Unless you actually think the Barrett era or pre-DSOTM shit was good, which... well, whatever. Gilmour filled in as lead guitarist and lead vocals after Barrett left, but Waters was the genius. It's not even comparable.

Then again, some people think that you can compare McCartney and Lennon, and that just boggles me. Of course McCartney actually wrote more than 20 percent of the music....

fikus222
03-21-2008, 05:28 PM
The Wall is overrated.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 05:29 PM
I agree.

fikus222
03-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Meddle is often underrated and is one of my favorites.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 05:38 PM
::shrug::

fikus222
03-21-2008, 05:40 PM
I do like the fact that Roger has included Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun within his recent tours.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 05:48 PM
No more Waters = no more concept album = no more Floyd. For fuck's sake, they had to bring in outsiders to be hired songwriters for the post-Waters albums. Bleh.

rage patton
03-21-2008, 06:02 PM
Randy, what is your favorite Floyd album?

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 06:06 PM
Wish. Pretty easy. Although I can't stand the first 8 minutes of Shine On and I never bother with the reprise. And I don't even love Welcome To The Machine--like, but don't love.

rage patton
03-21-2008, 06:13 PM
You don't love Welcome To The Machine? I was thinking him opening up with that song would be amazing.

What is your opinion on Animals?

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 06:22 PM
My least favorite of the golden era--DSOTM, Wish, Animals, Wall. Partly because my main gripe with Floyd is their meandering instrumental sections, and Animals has three fucking songs really--Dogs being awesome, Pigs being nice enough, and Sheep being cool but again they make me put up with 7 minutes of bullshit. I get really bored with that shit out of any band, and Floyd proves an exception on only very few tracks. But I also haven't listened to Animals nearly as much as the others--my brother thinks very highly of it and he's the primary reason I'm as into Floyd as I am. There was a period of about four years where he didn't want to listen to anything but Floyd on the grounds that all other music was inferior.

Dogs does kick much ass though, and the end of Sheep is cool enough although it feels like it could be almost any track of The Wall to me for some reason.

rage patton
03-21-2008, 06:31 PM
Your least favorite? Really? I thought you would like that album because it was basically all Roger Waters. And I think its kind of ironic/funny Dogs is your favorite song on that album, considering Gilmour sang and wrote it, with Waters of course. But still. I enjoyed it. For me, it switches back on fourth with The Wall on my favorites list constantly, depending on my mood. Right now, I am gonna say I like Animals more then the Wall.
And I know Waters plays Sheep live, which I am seriously looking forward to hearing, but I can't remember if he plays dogs. Do you know if we can expect to hear that?

bobert
03-21-2008, 06:33 PM
Sorry homies. But really, we've been over this in the Roger Waters threads from WAY back. All their actually really good albums--DSOTM, Animals, Wish, The Wall--Waters has at least 80 percent of the writing credits. Music as well as lyrics. Plus he's the reason they made concept albums, and concept tours, which is the real reason they're the exceptional legends they are. Gilmour's great, I never said he wasn't, but he wasn't Pink. Waters kinda was.

I'm not getting into this argument again. Anybody that knows Floyd knows the answer to this. Unless you actually think the Barrett era or pre-DSOTM shit was good, which... well, whatever. Gilmour filled in as lead guitarist and lead vocals after Barrett left, but Waters was the genius. It's not even comparable.

Then again, some people think that you can compare McCartney and Lennon, and that just boggles me. Of course McCartney actually wrote more than 20 percent of the music....

I'm shocked to say this, but I completely agree with THELASTGREATMAN. Gilmour was the better guitar player, and he's definitely a much better singer, but he sang what Roger told him to sing and played what Roger told him to play.

Also, this and pretty much every poll i've ever seen on this board is completely fucking retarded. Even if you hate Pink Floyd, to deny their influence and their place in music history is delusional, to put it mildly.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 06:43 PM
Look, Jesus guys, don't take me so fucking far. It's not like I don't love David Gilmour's work in Floyd. But he's not the reason they're FLOYD--Waters is. That's all. Gilmour was certainly an essential factor in some of their best tracks--Comfortably Numb being an obvious one that makes his talents undeniable.

But that being said, vocalists who aren't writing the lyrics only get so much credit, so there goes a lot of whatever "genius" points he's gonna get there. And he didn't even always write his fucking guitar parts, for balls sake. Fantastic performer, occasionally had some moments of brilliance as a writer...

but the reason Floyd stands up there next to The Beatles even though The Beatles have--IMO--probably at least six or seven times more songs I actually listen to than Floyd does is that Waters pushed for concept albums. I'm a firm believer that a great work of art--film, novel, album, something with a progression to it that subjects you to itself for a certain amount of time or story or whatever--MUST have an overriding concept to it to be truly great.

Sgt. Pepper's is the best album ever, one of the first concept albums--but even I have to admit the concept is fucking loosely strung together bullshit. It's not a real concept album. It's nonetheless so musically superior that it kicks the shit out of everything else... but Waters was a guy who was very firm about only wanting to work on an album if it was going to be ABOUT something. A cohesive thread tying it all together. At least in the golden era.

Which is why even The Wall, which I probably only listen to at most six or seven songs off of, is fucking genius. It tells a story. DSOTM and Wish rule by the same token.

Wheres the beef?
03-21-2008, 07:49 PM
My least favorite of the golden era--DSOTM, Wish, Animals, Wall. Partly because my main gripe with Floyd is their meandering instrumental sections, and Animals has three fucking songs really--Dogs being awesome, Pigs being nice enough, and Sheep being cool but again they make me put up with 7 minutes of bullshit. I get really bored with that shit out of any band, and Floyd proves an exception on only very few tracks. But I also haven't listened to Animals nearly as much as the others--my brother thinks very highly of it and he's the primary reason I'm as into Floyd as I am. There was a period of about four years where he didn't want to listen to anything but Floyd on the grounds that all other music was inferior.

Dogs does kick much ass though, and the end of Sheep is cool enough although it feels like it could be almost any track of The Wall to me for some reason.

Dogs, Pigs, and Sheep are so much better when they just jammed the songs live before they became actual tracks on an album. Just saying.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 07:50 PM
Dogs, Pigs, and Sheep are so much better when they just jammed the songs live before they became actual tracks on an album. Just saying.

... where'd you hear them jamming the songs live before the album?

Astrid
03-21-2008, 08:35 PM
Look, Jesus guys, don't take me so fucking far. It's not like I don't love David Gilmour's work in Floyd. But he's not the reason they're FLOYD--Waters is. That's all. Gilmour was certainly an essential factor in some of their best tracks--Comfortably Numb being an obvious one that makes his talents undeniable.

But that being said, vocalists who aren't writing the lyrics only get so much credit, so there goes a lot of whatever "genius" points he's gonna get there. And he didn't even always write his fucking guitar parts, for balls sake. Fantastic performer, occasionally had some moments of brilliance as a writer...


ok. i can dig this. it just pisses me off when gilmour is totally discredited. the whole such and such IS the band argument is pretty weak. which is why in my original post i said i can totally see someone saying waters was the most influential member....

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 08:38 PM
Being influential and writing almost all the music and lyrics aren't quite the same thing.

frozen pilgrim
03-21-2008, 09:09 PM
in a point entirely separate from the whole floyd argument, I found gilmour's recent-ish solo album to be quite enjoyable. I, myself, didn't enjoy waters' solo efforts from previous years nearly as much.
also- if you get the chance, (this is to everyone) you should check out the on an island live dvd-
the second half has a nice section of DSOTM, and some other great floyd moments. wright is still a very good vocalist, and it's interesting to see him given more creative breathing room with the keyboards and synths.

I'm really, really excited to see waters.

Wheres the beef?
03-21-2008, 09:21 PM
... where'd you hear them jamming the songs live before the album?

On all the live shows I have... I'll upload one for you.

Sheep used to be called "Raving and Drooling" and Dogs used to be called "You Gotta Be Crazy" when they performed them live. Then Animals came out and they changed the names.

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 09:50 PM
... alright, I'll peek that. What else is on the set list, just out of curiosity?


I make no judgments about either's solo work or even The Final Cut. Genius don't last for too long before it turns to shite. That's how shit like Rhythm Of The Saints happens.

Wheres the beef?
03-21-2008, 10:11 PM
... alright, I'll peek that. What else is on the set list, just out of curiosity?


I make no judgments about either's solo work or even The Final Cut. Genius don't last for too long before it turns to shite. That's how shit like Rhythm Of The Saints happens.

Here's the text file:

Pink Floyd

Empire Pool, Wembley
London, England
November 17, 1974

British Winter Tour - 1974

Getting Better All The Time

Free Range Pigs (FRP CDR-012/013/014)

Disc One:

1. Raving And Drooling
2. Gotta Be Crazy
3. Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts I-IX)

Disc Two:

1. Speak To Me
2. Breathe
3. On The Run
4. Time / Breathe (Reprise)
5. The Great Gig In The Sky
6. Money
7. Us & Them
8. Any Colour You Like
9. Brain Damage
10. Eclipse

Disc Three:

1. Echoes
2. Shine On You Crazy Diamond *
3. Raving And Drooling *
4. Gotta Be Crazy *

Roger Waters: Bass, Vocals
David Gilmour: Guitar, Vocals
Rick Wright: Keyboards
Nick Mason: Drums
Dick Parry: Saxophone
Carlene Williams: Vocals
Vanetta Fields: Vocals

Comments: Source: A(0)>CDR(4) Entire show, including tuneups and the recorded radio announcer lead-in to Raving & Drooling. Great vocals from David during "You've Gotta Be Crazy". The taper's comments to his friend between songs really add to the ambience of the recording -- "They keep getting better all the time".



* Taken from 'Britain 1974' Volume III (a copy of the misdated 'Raving And Drooling' LP -TAKRL1973 or 'The Screaming Abdab' LP - WRMB330. This source is also 11/17/74.

Wheres the beef?
03-21-2008, 10:14 PM
I cant find what Pigs Three Different Ones used to be. But if my memory serves me correct both You Gotta Be Crazy and Raving And Drooling are like 15-20 min each and they both have some of what will soon be Pigs (Three Different Ones)...

thelastgreatman
03-21-2008, 10:50 PM
Wow. Yeah, please, gimme.

dlemma
03-25-2008, 06:36 PM
in a point entirely separate from the whole floyd argument, I found gilmour's recent-ish solo album to be quite enjoyable. I, myself, didn't enjoy waters' solo efforts from previous years nearly as much.
also- if you get the chance, (this is to everyone) you should check out the on an island live dvd-
the second half has a nice section of DSOTM, and some other great floyd moments. wright is still a very good vocalist, and it's interesting to see him given more creative breathing room with the keyboards and synths.

I'm really, really excited to see waters.

Agreed. Waters had a much bigger effect on Floyd, but I too enjoy Gilmour's solo albums more. I'm talking about just sitting down and enjoying the music, not diving into the lyrical content and meaning behind the albums. And i must say Waters kicks some serious ass doing the DSOTM album. Caught him in Arizona. Played 4 or 5 solo songs, the entire DSOTM album in order, and finished off with 4 or 5 other Floyd songs (mostly off the wall).

thelastgreatman
03-29-2008, 10:04 PM
Thread Starter: I want to take the question mark at the end of this thread title and fucking strangle you to death with it.

zenidogx
03-29-2008, 10:32 PM
Thread Starter: I want to take the question mark at the end of this thread title and fucking strangle you to death with it.

um, okay? strangle me with that question mark too.
i think Waters is an underappreciated legend in my mind. i noticed that this board was underwhelmed by the announcement of Waters as headliner, which makes no sense to me. i asked the question to see what the board really thought aboot this guy. i am now impressed that the coachella board does indeed appreciate Waters, but i think they still prefer Bowie or Yorke.

thelastgreatman
04-16-2008, 09:55 AM
um, okay? strangle me with that question mark too.
i think Waters is an underappreciated legend in my mind. i noticed that this board was underwhelmed by the announcement of Waters as headliner, which makes no sense to me. i asked the question to see what the board really thought aboot this guy. i am now impressed that the coachella board does indeed appreciate Waters, but i think they still prefer Bowie or Yorke.

Oh okay, I thought you were one of those yokels contributing to the idiotic questioning of Waters.

Yeah, lots of people were fucking jerkoffs for quite a while. It took a couple months but we finally exorcised most of them I think.

Suffacated
04-28-2008, 01:03 AM
to all the people who responded he IS pink floyd...do you just not know shit about pink floyd? or are you saying he is your favorite member/was the most influential on the band?

i can accept that people like him the most, but he IS NOT pink floyd. thats like saying lennon IS the beatles. fucking false.

Sorry..
Syd Barrett was Pink Floyd.

Coachella Bound
09-12-2009, 09:49 AM
Sorry..
Syd Barrett was Pink Floyd.

Pink Floyd was Pink Floyd...... and Roger Waters was one of the best performances in COACHELLA history. True story....

RotationSlimWang
09-25-2009, 02:02 AM
Ahem.
HE'S NOT EVEN REMOTELY FUCKING IN TIME WITH HIS OWN GODDAMN SONG.
n3Sp9mv3NOg

RotationSlimWang
09-25-2009, 02:03 AM
Oh and here's that complete disgrace of a guitar solo during Money that for some reason I was the only person actually listening to that I was referring to on Friday night, Jenniecakes.

QkFketgmHig&feature=related

Skip to 3:30.

Coachella Bound
09-25-2009, 09:24 AM
the replacement guitarist is Dave Kilminster and id still say he did a fantastic job.....

heyeric
09-25-2009, 11:03 AM
definitely a legend

Kropladop
09-25-2009, 06:21 PM
And God help me for ragging on Bob Dylan and Paul McCartney - I'm being honest as I know it, but I'm not going to lie - that honesty still makes me feel dirty.

I love Bob Dylan and saw him about two years ago and i dont feel bad saying that he probably shouldnt perform anymore it was a terrible show but Paul McCartney and Roger Waters were amazing i hope Waters does the Wall in concert again, and yes he is undoubtedly a legend but not as legendary as Pink Floyd as a whole.