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View Full Version : Fuck You California For Thinking Tupac Was Better



thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:24 AM
Sometimes I'm so black I wish I could hatecrime myself. 8l9AREFjBrY

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:25 AM
C_lRfQCNCCk

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:29 AM
CFHUqrNUs2M

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:39 AM
Yeah, I don't give a fuck if you don't give a fuck. I love this fat black motherfucker, and he died for our sins, and I'm posting every fucking Youtube for every fucking song he made that blows all other rap away--and that's a fucking lot. ABhNEC1PAt0

MY SHIT IS MORE JON BLAZE THAN THAT. I GOT JON BLAZE SHIT.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 01:04 AM
Zad9f3eb0uM

And of course we can't leave out the single most emotionally pure rap song ever made. I've been holding back on going to Ready To Die because it's just too fucking easy, but goddammit, this owns all.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 01:11 AM
Tell me about it, I was jumped twice in high school for displaying my love for Biggie and Nas over Tupac... In the late 90's it was virtually illegal in LA to like either one of them more then Tupac.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 01:28 AM
It's fucking ridiculous. Back in Jersey it would split about 60/40 to Biggie which I still found sacriligeous but for some reason Tupac has this annoying "warrior poet" status or some horseshit in the rap fanbase that seems to get him the nod over Big, despite Big's obvious lyrical superiority in everything I've ever heard.

But when I moved out here and all of a sudden there wasn't even A QUESTION of who was better... that was just fucking stupid. This is why Tupac's ass had to die--these people refused to recognize NY owned them.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 01:42 AM
i5u_G3K_Cjc&feature=related

God he destroyed Pac in this. So much smoother, so much more flow, so much more fucking BLAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I fucking love him.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 01:49 AM
5xNNxGh2bh8

If I'm at a party and this song doesn't play, then it ain't a par-tay.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 01:59 AM
BzT9vOHuZm0&feature=related

Tmvhvm2ra7Y&feature=related

YfpvpKfR2Ck

tpc2KZQIckU&feature=related

PEPgA4ZQf0U&feature=related

bxLk3uf2msk&feature=related

RXMQ0jP0TqE&feature=related

Fuck it man, I'm posting every song worth posting. I would've liked to have own this negro.


=)

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 02:04 AM
VCMWY9EVc2o&NR=1

NOBODY has ever told stories as well as Big. NOBODY.

gaypalmsprings
03-02-2008, 07:57 AM
Forbes Richest Deceased Celebrities in 2002

Rank Name Earnings ($mil)
1 Elvis Presley $37
2 Charles Schulz 28
3 John Lennon 20
4 Dale Earnhardt 20
5 Theodor "Dr. Seuss" Geisel 19
6 George Harrison 17
7 J.R.R. Tolkien 12
8 Bob Marley 10
9 Jimi Hendrix 8
10 Tupac Shakur 7
11 Marilyn Monroe 7
12 Jerry Garcia 5
13 Robert Ludlum 5

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 08:03 AM
He's so fucking overrated, seriously. Sorry, California, but he's weak and gets too much credit just cause he died, screamed "thug life" a lot, and was good-looking.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 10:15 AM
You are out of your mind

Get some!

N4HjsZqOaQ0

rage patton
03-02-2008, 10:16 AM
Dale Earnhardt? Seriously?

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 10:22 AM
His voice is so inferior to Big's. And fuck that, I have this argument all the time--Who Shot Ya is 100 times more badass than that happy horseshit.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 10:25 AM
Old school, new school, need to learn though:
I burn, baby, burn, like disco inferno.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 10:53 AM
Lets not forget about the newer Pac stuff

43bMY5D3u6s

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 10:55 AM
I really want the explanation for that bullshit to come out some day, by the way. Actually no, I just want him to stop releasing albums.

Big's 3 albums > Tupac's 80.

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Biggie, remember when I use to let you sleep on the couch?
And beg the bitch to let you sleep in the house
Now it's all about Versace
You copied my style
Five shots couldn't drop me
I took it and smiled

joppy-slow
03-02-2008, 11:13 AM
I really want the explanation for that bullshit to come out some day, by the way. Actually no, I just want him to stop releasing albums.

Big's 3 albums > Tupac's 80.

ok.. i'm with you that Tupac's estate needs to stop releasing albums.. yawn....

but seriously, weren't you trying to argue a while back that Roger Water's big production birthday party bull-shit, would be better than David Gilmour playing Coacheeze???

Tupac's - Me Against The World > Any of Biggie's albums....

KB7cV3oJQFc

whynotsmile99
03-02-2008, 11:18 AM
i gotta go against my coast and say I agree. Pac annoys me. Honestly though, biggie and all other gangster rap aside from Dr. Dre/Snoop annoyed me as well. Then my friend burned me all the Biggie he had. How could you not be a fan. Guy was incredible. Great songs to. Beats, samples, everything worked so well.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:18 AM
ok.. i'm with you that Tupac's estate needs to stop releasing albums.. yawn....

but seriously, weren't you trying to argue a while back that Roger Water's big production birthday party bull-shit, would be better than David Gilmour playing Coacheeze???

Tupac's - Me Against The World > Any of Biggie's albums....

Yeah, Roger Waters is better than David Gilmour, what the fuck is your point?

And Ready To Die is probably the best rap album of all time without even raising a question--sorry, you're wrong.

Pac was never as gruesome as Dead Wrong. He was never as surprising as Suicidal Thoughts. And their storytelling abilities don't even fall in the same ballpark.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:22 AM
Biggie, remember when I use to let you sleep on the couch?
And beg the bitch to let you sleep in the house
Now it's all about Versace
You copied my style
Five shots couldn't drop me
I took it and smiled

Clip the Tek, respect I demand it
Slip and break the Eleventh Commandment
THOU SHALT NOT FUCK WITH RAW C POPPA...

You'll die slow but calm


Can't talk with a gun in your mouth, can you, Shyguy?


EDIT: Also, just naming the track "Who Shot Ya" won it for Big before the song even fucking started.

DOUBLE EDIT: Pac was never, ever, ever this fucking cool: vwAzkJs7DaA

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 11:29 AM
And their storytelling abilities don't even fall in the same ballpark.

You were doing halfway decent until right here ^

Pac was the ultimate storyteller. That is why he has a much larger catalog to pull from.

Pac was also a part of the greatest rap collaboration of all time:

GZ1zt2NbgBw

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:33 AM
Other better rappers than Pac:

Big Pun, even though he was so fucking fat he couldn't actually perform any of his shit because he wrote some of the fastest-paced rhyme patterns ever and didn't have enough breath to record more than like 4 bars at a time.

vwAzkJs7DaA

z_C8LjF7Lik

betao
03-02-2008, 11:35 AM
I've always been a fan of 2pac... and yes, Me Against the World is an excellent album. 2pac also gets points for his poetry - The Rose that Grew from Concrete has some very good stuff in it.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:38 AM
You were doing halfway decent until right here ^

Pac was the ultimate storyteller. That is why he has a much larger catalog to pull from.

Pac was also a part of the greatest rap collaboration of all time:

GZ1zt2NbgBw

I've never heard a single Pac song where he flowed a story comparably to the way Big did on like 40 percent of his tracks. It was so easy for him it's gross. I've posted several examples of it earlier, find me some real competition. This Pac and Snoop song has to be a joke. Biggie was better with fucking SADAT.

joppy-slow
03-02-2008, 11:38 AM
Yeah, Roger Waters is better than David Gilmour, what the fuck is your point?

And Ready To Die is probably the best rap album of all time without even raising a question--sorry, you're wrong.

Pac was never as gruesome as Dead Wrong. He was never as surprising as Suicidal Thoughts. And their storytelling abilities don't even fall in the same ballpark.

get biggie some fucking nasal strips.. seriously, he sounds like he has asthma .. but really who fucking cares...??? it's like who fucking cares that Roger Water's has to hire some young guy to come in and sing all the high notes during his shows.. but who care's.. he is a great story teller.. and that is what matter.. yawn...

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 11:50 AM
I've never heard a single Pac song where he flowed a story comparably to the way Big did on like 40 percent of his tracks. It was so easy for him it's gross. I've posted several examples of it earlier, find me some real competition.

Have you not been paying attention in class again, greatman? The videos I have posted are telling the best story of all. How Biggy was the ultimate bitch.

So no matter how good Puffy made him sound, and no matter how many times they pumped it through on your east coast radio stations for you when you were 11, that fact will never change.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:08 PM
Oh my god, you're from Chicago you ***. You don't even have an excuse for being this wrong. You posted a dis track response to Big's half-dis track--the fact that Pac made an entire song, several in fact, just trying to act like a badder ass than Big does not make him a better rapper. The fact that Pac recorded like 1000 fucking songs doesn't make him better. Both of the times they freestyled Pac got fucking SERVED, and Big's shit was so good he threw it right on his fucking albums--and it was STILL BETTER THAN PAC'S WRITTEN SHIT.


Look at Pac, all afraid of freestyling. Puuuuuuussy.

_oD_ce7_cpo&feature=related

joppy-slow
03-02-2008, 12:18 PM
Look at Pac, all afraid of freestyling. Puuuuuuussy.

_oD_ce7_cpo&feature=related

ha ha ha hah.... they both do a good job if you ask me.. I actually liked Tupac's ending a lot more.. Biggie seems to struggle at the end.

also who cares if biggie died.. he was going to die of coronary heart disease anyways.. better to put him out of his misery early.. dude got fatter and fatter as his career went on.. puffy should have told him to lay off the big macs..

thinnerair
03-02-2008, 12:19 PM
(Excerpt from the Flava in Ya Ear remix)
Uhhhhhh,
Niggas is mad I get more butt than ash trays,
Fuck a fair one I get mines the fast way,
The ski mask way,
Ransom notes,
Far from handsome...but damn a ***** tote,
[What ya' tote]
more guns than roses,
Foes is,shaking in their boots,
Invisible bullies like The Gooch,
Disappear...vamoose...you're wack to me,
Take them rhymes back to the factory,




SHIT IS CLASSIC

fatbastard
03-02-2008, 12:22 PM
California...knows how to party
California...knows how to party
In the city of L.A.
In the city of good ol' Watts
In the city, the city of Compton
We keep it rockin
We keep it rockin

Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west
A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness
The track hits ya eardrum like a slug to ya chest
Pack a vest for your Jimmy in the city of sex
We in that sunshine state with a bomb ass hemp beat
The state where ya never find a dance floor empty
And pimps be on a mission for them greens
Lean mean money-makin-machines servin fiends
I been in the game for ten years makin rap tunes
Ever since honeys was wearin sassoon
Now it's '95 and they clock me and watch me
Diamonds shinin lookin like I robbed Liberace
It's all good, from Diego to tha Bay
Your city is tha bomb if your city makin pay
Throw up a finger if ya feel the same way
Dre puttin it down for
California

Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it mama
Shake it Cali
Shake it shake it baby
Shake it shake it shake it shake it...

Out on bail fresh outta jail
California dreamin
Soon as I stepped on the scene
I'm hearin hoochies screamin
Fiendin for money and alcohol
The life of a west side playa where cowards die
Only in Cali where we riot now rallies are live and die
In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right)
Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do
Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews
Famous cause we program worldwide
Let'em recognize from Longbeach to Rosecrans
Bumpin and grindin like a slow jam, it's west side
So you know the row won't bow down to no man
Say what you say
But give me that bomb beat from Dre
Let me serenade the streets of L.A.
From Oakland to Sacktown
The Bay Area and back down
Cali is where they put they mack down
Give me love

Now make it shake...

Uh, yeah, uh, longbeach in tha house, uh yeah
Oaktown, Oakland definately in tha house hahaha
Frisko, Frisko
Hey, you know LA is up in this
Pasadina, where you at
Yeah, Ingelwood, Ingelwood always up to no good
Even Hollywood tryin to get a piece baby
Sacramento, sacramento where ya at ? yeah

Throw it up y'all, throw it up, Throw it up
Let's show these fools how we do this on that west side
Cause you and I know it's tha best side

Yeah, That's riight
West coast, west coast
Uh, California Love
California Love

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 12:23 PM
Afraid to freestyle? That was part of the show. The opening lyric before he killed it.

Biggie was a puppet. A hanger-on. Pac let him hang out with him, and then Puffy carried him the rest of the way.

Don't make me cut you at Coachella.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:26 PM
Seriously, Shyfuck, this argument could end our friendship.


The only way to settle this is for me to destroy you in a battle. I'll rep my boy, you rep yours. Since I'm relatively sure you've never actually had black friends, you'll lose miserably, and justice will be served.

chiapet
03-02-2008, 12:33 PM
This kind of feels like it should be on the "things that white people like" thread.

fatbastard
03-02-2008, 12:33 PM
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/107/252642546_7ace4b98fd.jpg?v=0

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 12:41 PM
I would rather do a ten pace gunfight at the enterence of Coachella. I'll supply the guns. Since I'm relatively sure you've never actually had mexican friends, you'll lose miserably, and justice will be served.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 12:43 PM
That's pretty funny. You're right about the mexican friends though. Can't really have black friends and mexican friends, at least not at the same time. Suspicions run high.

BROKENDOLL
03-02-2008, 01:12 PM
Justice<Eminem< L.G.M.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 02:33 PM
And Ready To Die is probably the best rap album of all time without even raising a question--sorry, you're wrong.

It's up there, but I still would not put it past Illmatic, Paid in Full, Hard to Earn, or The Chronic.

JustSteve
03-02-2008, 02:41 PM
Invisible bullies like The Gooch

haha, i take it that is a diff'rent strokes reference.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 02:43 PM
It's up there, but I still would not put it past Illmatic, Paid in Full, Hard to Earn, or The Chronic.

The Chronic is the really hard choice, it's true. But if you don't adjust your qualification of it for the time period and don't take into account the influential quotient but stick just to the music, I say Ready To Die owns it. At least, there are relatively few times that I find myself wanting to bump Dre Day NOW, even though it (and most of the rest of the album) are great tracks. Ready To Die almost still feels like it could be current.

Gangstarr just puzzles me, Erik B. and Rakim, eh, I dunno man, I wasn't old enough I suppose but rap is such a new genre that there's a BIG leap in quality over time. Illmatic is a respectable suggestion, but Nas falls short of Biggie in pretty much every respect. 36 Chambers or The Infamous would have been interesting votes too.

Frankly, The Slim Shady LP actually DOES come pretty fucking close. Say what you want, still the only motherfucker who outshined Big on one of Big's own tracks. Actually he pretty much always outshines whoever else is on a track with him.

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 02:46 PM
i'm a biggie fan...

but anyone who says "i hate to sound sleazy but tease me, i don't want it if its that easy" is fucking awesome in my book...

the only reason i'll go with pac is cuz i'm from the west and THESE TATTOOS DONT RUN!

JustSteve
03-02-2008, 02:50 PM
for this picture alone, biggie wins...
http://www.spyder-fonix.com/pics/thug_life.jpg

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 02:51 PM
whered you get my picture from!?

did you hack into my comp!?

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 02:53 PM
The Chronic is the really hard choice, it's true. But if you don't adjust your qualification of it for the time period and don't take into account the influential quotient but stick just to the music, I say Ready To Die owns it. At least, there are relatively few times that I find myself wanting to bump Dre Day NOW, even though it (and most of the rest of the album) are great tracks. Ready To Die almost still feels like it could be current.

Gangstarr just puzzles me, Erik B. and Rakim, eh, I dunno man, I wasn't old enough I suppose but rap is such a new genre that there's a BIG leap in quality over time. Illmatic is a respectable suggestion, but Nas falls short of Biggie in pretty much every respect. 36 Chambers or The Infamous would have been interesting votes too.

Frankly, The Slim Shady LP actually DOES come pretty fucking close. Say what you want, still the only motherfucker who outshined Big on one of Big's own tracks. Actually he pretty much always outshines whoever else is on a track with him.

The Infamous, Only Built for Cuban Links, The Low End Theory, Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, Reasonable Doubt, Amerikkka's Most Wanted, 3 Feet High and Rising, It Takes a Nation of Millions..., Return to the Boom Bap, and 36 Chambers would all immediately follow Biggie in my book, but the previous 4 album I mentoned, I always put ahead of Ready to Die. You also have to remember Randy that the recording of Biggie used for the collaboration with Eminem was several years old. Had Biggie been alive for the track I'm almost positive the outcome of who outperformed who on the track would be a little different. And not to simply side with you but I do strongly feel that Eminem is in the top 10 of greatest overall MC's in Rap history.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 03:01 PM
Well they did both freestyle on a radio station once, but to my knowledge that's the only time they ever did anything resembling collaboration, or anything that could be used for comparison. Em holds his own, and he was fucking YOUNG when this went down. Still has the chipmunk voice though, which is just funny now.

VlS4K1DAzp4

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 03:06 PM
The funny thing about Eminem is the way he was marketed by Jimmy Iovine and Dr.Dre, he really could have stayed a cool 50/50 by reaching out heavily to both the mainstream TRL bubble gum pop kids and the hardcore hip hop fans. But after the massive exposure and success of The Marshall Mather's LP they wanted to push the circus act more than the credible rap music which damaged his talent and skills as an MC. He should have cut ties after The Eminem Show.

After The Eminem show, the only REAL Slim Shady that you got was on underground tracks or guest spots on his side projects but never on his own records.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 03:09 PM
I don't know exactly what you mean by that. Personally I think Encore has some of his best work on it. I experienced massive feelings of backlash around the Mathers LP time--it was high school, and there were just too many fucking kids bumping him bitching about being famous. Encore has some of his most impressive uses of meter and rhyme though.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-02-2008, 03:46 PM
Alright I gots to give it up for this thread. I never "got" Tupac, meanwhile Big is the greatest rapper of all time.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 03:47 PM
Trick, I take back all the bad things I said about you behind your back. Way to be on the winning team.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-02-2008, 03:47 PM
And the greatest rap album of all time:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00004SSQG.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Wheres the beef?
03-02-2008, 03:50 PM
Dont forget this jam......

oA8ziArA9e0

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 03:52 PM
Ugh, I hate fucking Bone Thugs. That's one Biggie song I just don't listen to, ever. Possibly the only one.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:01 PM
There were a few gems on Encore that proved Eminem was still showing signs of his old shady self, but most of the album made it seem as if he was still under the watchful eye of Interscope. The album itself tried too hard to be controversial and raunchy, and by that time it just seemed like the same old shtick to me. The album was fair at best, I just hope he has more creative control next time around which is supposedly 2009. I hear that his real comeback will be on Dr. Dre's long awaited Detox, which apparently has Eminem on it as much as Snoop was on The Chronic... I can't fucking wait for that album.

Have you ever caught Eminem live Randy?

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 04:09 PM
Nah, no interest. Without a live band, live rap holds absolutely no interest for me.

As far as Encore goes, I maintain that Rain Man, although being completely and totally a joke song, is one of the most impressive pieces of rap vocal ever. The rhyme structure he put together in that is fucking BIZARRE. It's so goddamn hard to copy, even when you're singing right along with him. It's a polyrhythm of some sort--who the fuck else does that? My roommate also once made a really interesting argument that Kim is the most emotionally pure song of our generation.

You really think Interscope limited his creative control? I dunno, I think if you're the most bankable rap artist of the decade you probably get a lot of say. I suspect he actually just got a bit burned out after Mathers and let things autopilot more frequently. Eminem Show is the weakest of them for me.

Yeah, if Detox isn't, like, THE ULTRA SHIT I'll be fucking amazed.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:18 PM
That's funny, I rank Rain Man as one of his greatest tracks, and arguably the best on that album. I think Interscope was making it a point for him to make sure that a good percentage of his music was controversial or raunchy because that is apparently what sold, it was his "shtick". If you notice on alot of his underground mix tapes with DJ Green Lantern and even his high profile guest spots, his lyrics and overall rhyme structure were phenomenal and took me back to his days of being an underground MC from Detroit, and it was due in part to Interscope not having control of those tracks. After the Marshall Mathers LP, I would just sit, listen, and wait for that select handful of tracks that reflected his real skill on both The Eminem Show and Encore.

Blinken
03-02-2008, 04:23 PM
I think That King Mathers will come before Detox. Obie said it was done back in December, and that it will be out soon.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:27 PM
I think That King Mathers will come before Detox. Obie said it was done back in December, and that will be out soon.

Dr. Dre was on one of the local hip hop stations several months back and he stated that alot of the material that was to appear on King Mathers was shelved because Dre was working on Detox and did not take a big part in the overall production of the material and he wanted to rework the album in it's entirety. Who knows at this point... In that interview Dre also stated Detox would be out by the fall of 2008.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 04:30 PM
Alright, quick poll, let's see if anyone gets this question right:


What is the best Em track? We're going to exclude non-LPs because there's like a dozen and I don't know that shit.

Correct answer gets a gold star.

Blinken
03-02-2008, 04:33 PM
Hard fucking question,

Square Dance, Stan, Drug Ballad, Rain Man, or When I'm Gone

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 04:34 PM
All wrong.

Blinken
03-02-2008, 04:36 PM
Dr. Dre was on one of the local hip hop stations several months back and he stated that alot of the material that was to appear on King Mathers was shelved because Dre was working on Detox and did not take a big part in the overall production of the material and he wanted to rework the album in it's entirety. Who knows at this point... In that interview Dre also stated Detox would be out by the fall of 2008.

You may be right, Dre and Em tend to make an album then change their minds, wasn't that how 50cent ended up with a bunch of Dre's beats. They leaked or something and Dre said fuck it you take em 50.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:38 PM
Wow...

Rock Bottom, Role Model, Rain Man, When I'm Gone, Yellow Brick Road, The Way I am, Sing for the Moment, We as Americans, Drug Ballad, and Guilty Conscience are my favorite 10. I can't pick just one from that list... I would have to go back and listen to all of them again, very thoroughly.

Blinken
03-02-2008, 04:39 PM
damn i forgot Yellow Brick Road, and Sing for the Moment.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 04:42 PM
Rock Bottom

Since it was your first answer we'll count it as correct.



The gold stars are on back order though. Deal with it.

boarderwoozel3
03-02-2008, 04:44 PM
Forbes Richest Deceased Celebrities in 2002

Rank Name Earnings ($mil)
1 Elvis Presley $37
2 Charles Schulz 28
3 John Lennon 20
4 Dale Earnhardt 20
5 Theodor "Dr. Seuss" Geisel 19
6 George Harrison 17
7 J.R.R. Tolkien 12
8 Bob Marley 10
9 Jimi Hendrix 8
10 Tupac Shakur 7
11 Marilyn Monroe 7
12 Jerry Garcia 5
13 Robert Ludlum 5

The fact that Kurt Cobain insn't on this list renders it useless. He's the richest dead celeb out there.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:45 PM
The fact that Kurt Cobain insn't on this list renders it useless. He's the richest dead celeb out there.

He doesn't even come close to Elvis... FAIL.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:46 PM
Since it was your first answer we'll count it as correct.



The gold stars are on back order though. Deal with it.

It was the first I mentioned for a reason, I'm sure it would have come down to Rock Bottom and another two tracks for the best overall track of his career to date. Be sure to send me a shipment notification once that gold star is off of back order.

boarderwoozel3
03-02-2008, 04:54 PM
False FAIL call.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 04:56 PM
The fact that Kurt Cobain insn't on this list renders it useless. He's the richest dead celeb out there.

I don't understand how that could possibly be true. How is this possibly true?

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 04:59 PM
False FAIL call.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2007/10/30/entertainment/e100533D96.DTL

ShyGuy75
03-02-2008, 05:02 PM
Since we are still in class, greatman, I will give you another rapper that destroys Biggie.

Freestyle you want? Nobody can touch the master.

jBePiemokzM

*notice how he says he aint afraid at the beginning. With all your black friends, I'm suprised you didn't know that is how to properly start a freestyle*

lQRjabxMsm8&feature=related

His whole life is lived in freestyle. He speaks in his own language. Dogg.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 05:05 PM
Snoop Dogg was stellar from 1992-1995, anything after is complete and utter garbage.

boarderwoozel3
03-02-2008, 05:08 PM
Hmmm, I didn't see that the numbers were from 2002. <-- random year

In total earnings I think elvis blows everyone away but recently cobain has taken over the yearly top dead money maker crown a few times. Apparently elvis got it in 07. Whatever, none of them are enjoying the spoils.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 05:11 PM
Whatever, Shymo. Snoop knows how to fill time freestyling, he never really says anything unique or distinctive from one set to the next. Tupac's shit on that clip was weak, I don't know how anyone can't feel it was.

Big, as always, had techniques dripping out his buttcheeks.

Wheres the beef?
03-02-2008, 06:42 PM
Ugh, I hate fucking Bone Thugs. That's one Biggie song I just don't listen to, ever. Possibly the only one.

Yeah but for this thread you can use it as interesting comparison because both biggie and pac did a song with bone thugs. So it sort of serves as a microcosm to this thread when you compare the songs. Biggies rhymes are just too good.

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 06:59 PM
Alright, quick poll, let's see if anyone gets this question right:


What is the best Em track? We're going to exclude non-LPs because there's like a dozen and I don't know that shit.

Correct answer gets a gold star.

"Still don't give a Fu*k"

the title to thread offends me...

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 07:29 PM
I like Biggie and Tupac but I dont think they got nothing on MAC DRE.

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 07:38 PM
mac dre!?

lemme guess, youre from up north and have met too short?

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 07:39 PM
Mac Dre over Big? Please. Next some asshole is gonna come in here and try and claim Too Short is better than him too. FUCK OFF, CALI.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 07:39 PM
HA! Jinx, you owe me a coke. Or some coke. Either.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 07:40 PM
I like Biggie and Tupac but I dont think they got nothing on MAC DRE.

That's hecka wrong man, you hella FAIL.

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 07:42 PM
mac dre!?

lemme guess, youre from up north and have met too short?

I am from the Bay but havent met Too Short.

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 07:43 PM
you so "hella" fail...

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 07:43 PM
Mac Dre over Big? Please. Next some asshole is gonna come in here and try and claim Too Short is better than him too. FUCK OFF, CALI.


damn dude

kick back

you are getting way too passionate here.

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 07:44 PM
you so "hella" fail...


haha

getting it

PassiveTheory
03-02-2008, 07:45 PM
Mac Dre over Big? Please. Next some asshole is gonna come in here and try and claim Too Short is better than him too. FUCK OFF, CALI.

He'd probably want to see Enter Shikari over Big, too...

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 07:45 PM
He'd probably want to see Enter Shikari over Big, too...


Shut Up PUTO

Bud Luster
03-02-2008, 07:50 PM
Why does every Caput rap sound the fucking same? BIG is far better - lyrics, voice, delivery - everthing. All that hyphy mac dre bullshit is sooo fucking wack. And MM can rap his fucking ass off and his delivery is fucking crazy but I cant stand that whiney voice of his. He must be Jew.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 07:58 PM
damn dude

kick back

you are getting way too passionate here.

Profanity and caps don't actually necessarily mean I'm yelling in anger. They just mean I'm foul-mouthed and I like caps occasionally.

woogie846
03-02-2008, 07:59 PM
Biggie had better beats, better rapping skills, and a better image.

NiceArthur32
03-02-2008, 08:06 PM
I like Biggie and Tupac but I dont think they got nothing on MAC DRE.

better late than never...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/nicearthur32/hellafail.jpg

Wheres the beef?
03-02-2008, 08:20 PM
better late than never...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/nicearthur32/hellafail.jpg

If I had the time I would do the same thing with "Bro Fail" over socal. Then a bunch of fires all around.

PassiveTheory
03-02-2008, 09:16 PM
Shut Up PUTO

Yes because calling me a name is really going to make me shut up... Right.

Don't hate me cause I'm right. =P

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 09:50 PM
Yes because calling me a name is really going to make me shut up... Right.

Don't hate me cause I'm right. =P

*yawns*

Stainofmind
03-02-2008, 09:51 PM
better late than never...

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/nicearthur32/hellafail.jpg



Whats your beef with the Bay Area?

I in no way contributed with the invention of that word.

Blinken
03-02-2008, 10:51 PM
I have a problem with the Bay Area, because of the shit i have to here up there about LA sucks and everyone is fake. When in reality you have the fucking hipsters in droves up in SF. SF is no better than LA, shut the fuck up already Bay Area. Oh yeah, and lets not foget the retarded trends that seem to come out of the Bay Area, Ghost Riding, Hyphy, the word 'hella' alone is stupid enough. I know LA isn't the greatest, but the holier than thou bullshit of some people in the bay area is what really annoys about the Bay Area.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 11:02 PM
I have a problem with the Bay Area, because of the shit i have to here up there about LA sucks and everyone is fake. When in reality you have the fucking hipsters in droves up in SF. SF is no better than LA, shut the fuck up already Bay Area. Oh yeah, and lets not foget the retarded trends that seem to come out of the Bay Area, Ghost Riding, Hyphy, the word 'hella' alone is stupid enough. I know LA isn't the greatest, but the holier than thou bullshit of some people in the bay area is what really annoys about the Bay Area.

My girlfriend is originally from the Bay Area, everytime we go up there to visit her family they give me shit for being a snob, their only basis for that is the fact that I'm born and raised in LA, nothing else... Hilarious.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-02-2008, 11:34 PM
I say hella and I like some hyphy but Mac Dre is awful. He's famous because he's dead.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:34 PM
Before anyone can even attempt it--don't try and claim Big L is better than Biggie either, or everybody's getting shot.

chiapet
03-02-2008, 11:39 PM
My girlfriend is originally from the Bay Area, everytime we go up there to visit her family they give me shit for being a snob, their only basis for that is the fact that I'm born and raised in LA, nothing else... Hilarious.

That's funny because half of SF is from LA. We're kind to those who voluntarily migrate.

ThomThom
03-02-2008, 11:41 PM
That's funny because half of SF is from LA. We're kind to those who voluntarily migrate.

Sorry, I forgot to point out that most of her family members are from Vacaville, Vallejo, Benecia, Oakland, and Fairfield... That probably has ALOT to do with the doucheyness. Only a select amount of them are rom SF.

anti-square
03-02-2008, 11:42 PM
I say hella and I like some hyphy but Mac Dre is awful. He's famous because he's dead.

Wow, you're ignorant. He had a big fan base here in California prior to his death. Also, Mac Dre is better than any hyphy bs.

anti-square
03-02-2008, 11:44 PM
And for the record, Biggie is a better lyricist, but 2pac has much more classics under his belt.

thelastgreatman
03-02-2008, 11:47 PM
Well, he has released like 12x as many albums. And I don't agree anyway. No Tupac songs are classics for me, frankly.

anti-square
03-02-2008, 11:59 PM
I'll only mention these three then:

http://z.about.com/d/rap/1/0/H/-/-/-/2Pac-MeAgainstTheWorld.jpg
http://www.plong.com/MusicCatalog%5C0-9%5C2Pac%20-%20All%20Eyez%20On%20Me%5C2Pac%20-%20All%20Eyez%20On%20Me.jpg
http://bp0.blogger.com/_btPpv0uaZYA/RwPAqj354CI/AAAAAAAAAcE/anf9a7PSKDc/s400/2Pac_Makaveli-The_Don_Killuminati_front.jpg

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:00 AM
If no 2pac song is a classic to you, then you fail at your own thread. You have nothing to argue about.

NiceArthur32
03-03-2008, 12:07 AM
Whats your beef with the Bay Area?

I in no way contributed with the invention of that word.

my beef is not with the bay area, its with northern cali...

i'm from L.A...

the Giants and the Kings are from up there...

Wheres the beef?
03-03-2008, 12:12 AM
I have a problem with the Bay Area, because of the shit i have to here up there about LA sucks and everyone is fake. When in reality you have the fucking hipsters in droves up in SF. SF is no better than LA, shut the fuck up already Bay Area. Oh yeah, and lets not foget the retarded trends that seem to come out of the Bay Area, Ghost Riding, Hyphy, the word 'hella' alone is stupid enough. I know LA isn't the greatest, but the holier than thou bullshit of some people in the bay area is what really annoys about the Bay Area.

I bet you have bleached tips.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 12:13 AM
If no 2pac song is a classic to you, then you fail at your own thread. You have nothing to argue about.

... I have nothing to argue about with myself. I argue about this with dumbshits on a regular basis though even though Big is vastly superior and there shouldn't even be a discussion.

NiceArthur32
03-03-2008, 12:13 AM
I bet you have bleached tips.

they are NOT bleached... they're frosted!

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:27 AM
... I have nothing to argue about with myself. I argue about this with dumbshits on a regular basis though even though Big is vastly superior and there shouldn't even be a discussion.

Right, there shouldn't be a discussion when it is obvious that BOTH artist have classics and your bias keeps you from recognizing game when its in your face.

NiceArthur32
03-03-2008, 12:29 AM
MODED!

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:31 AM
when it comes to HIP HOP the BAY ARE AKA Northern Cali is WHACK.

NiceArthur32
03-03-2008, 12:34 AM
you cant dismiss the WHOLE bay area...

they have a lot of good rappers out there...

oh, and Tupac was from oakland wasnt he?

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:40 AM
Tupac was also from BALTIMORE, born in NY(I think), yet the mu fucka repped SOUTHERN CALI. Don't give me this shit.
There are a FEW good BAY area rappers

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:42 AM
Spice 1
2pac
Mac Dre
Too Short
Mac Mall
Dubee
Andre Nickatina
Equipto
Brotha Lynch
Yukmouth
Zion I
X-raided
C-Bo
of the top of my head. I grew up listening to a lot if this as a youngsta.

NiceArthur32
03-03-2008, 12:45 AM
no e40 or keak da sneak?

i like those guys too!

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:45 AM
2pac is not a bay area rapper. GET OFF THAT SHIT.

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:46 AM
and with the exception of E-40(when he still brought it not this HYPHY BULLSHIT), Too Short, Pharcyde, and Mac Dre, everything else is whack

Blinken
03-03-2008, 12:52 AM
I bet you have bleached tips.

Could not be more wrong.

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:53 AM
Hall of Game and before for E-40 I dig. Keak is ok at best. The the golden years of the Bay were between 91-98 in my opinion.

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:55 AM
pharcyde, and Too Short, and E-40 in the 90's. OH damn that shit was sweet. Actually hip hop/rap in the 90's was so fucking bad ass. There was almost no whack shit coming out. Everyone was still hungry. The Golden Era of RAP.

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:55 AM
Truth be told, most rap from any given region is whack. There will always be a few gems that stand out, but the rest falls under mediocrity. This includes the east coast and down south.

Sushov23
03-03-2008, 12:56 AM
home boy, you are tripping. southern cali, and NY have a SHIT LOAD of dope shit.

anti-square
03-03-2008, 12:59 AM
pharcyde, and Too Short, and E-40 in the 90's. OH damn that shit was sweet. Actually hip hop/rap in the 90's was so fucking bad ass. There was almost no whack shit coming out. Everyone was still hungry. The Golden Era of RAP.

I agree. This generation of hip hop artist is fumbling the ball big time. There is no creativity. Everyone wants to follow shit that was great from the past. When 2pac passed, damned near every artist in the west was trying copy his formula for success. Same goes for Biggie in the east.

Stainofmind
03-03-2008, 01:01 AM
you cant dismiss the WHOLE bay area...

they have a lot of good rappers out there...

oh, and Tupac was from oakland wasnt he?

No but he did live in Oakland for a period. He was featured in E-40s "dusted n disgusted" track.
He was even a dancer in Digital Underground. Shock G helped Tupac break into the game.

anti-square
03-03-2008, 01:02 AM
home boy, you are tripping. southern cali, and NY have a SHIT LOAD of dope shit.

Really? Shit load? Either I'm in the dark on this or you are over estimating the music. Honestly though, I pretty much abandoned hip hop the last few years. So, you could have a point...

Stainofmind
03-03-2008, 01:03 AM
Spice 1
2pac
Mac Dre
Too Short
Mac Mall
Dubee
Andre Nickatina
Equipto
Brotha Lynch
Yukmouth
Zion I
X-raided
C-Bo
of the top of my head. I grew up listening to a lot if this as a youngsta.

You big on San Quinn or Keak Da Sneak?

Stainofmind
03-03-2008, 01:06 AM
Hall of Game and before for E-40 I dig. Keak is ok at best. The the golden years of the Bay were between 91-98 in my opinion.

Nevermind

I just read this now.

evilmushroompie
03-03-2008, 01:07 AM
ok.. i'm with you that Tupac's estate needs to stop releasing albums.. yawn....

but seriously, weren't you trying to argue a while back that Roger Water's big production birthday party bull-shit, would be better than David Gilmour playing Coacheeze???

Tupac's - Me Against The World > Any of Biggie's albums....

KB7cV3oJQFc

Hahaha fuck yeah! Amazing album, no bad songs in my opinion.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 01:55 AM
Why are you bringing up other overrated California rappers in a thread all about the most overrated California rapper?

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 08:58 AM
I only read the first page of this thread and I must say, Randy you make me proud. THE NOTORIOUS BIG = G.O.A.T. He absolutely crushes Tupac in every aspect of rapping, period.

"Whether drunk or high, skunk or thai"

Again nice work Randy, about time we gave credit where credit is due.

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 09:12 AM
What's hilarious to me is the fact that a very large amount of Tupac fan boys still believe he is from Oakland... He was born in New York.

SFChrissy
03-03-2008, 09:21 AM
He's so fucking overrated, seriously. Sorry, California, but he's weak and gets too much credit just cause he died, screamed "thug life" a lot, and was good-looking.

OK...but, Makavelli is off it's chain!!! And biggie...he's just SYC!!! I like them just the same...

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 09:40 AM
Frank White died for our sins, guys. He was the second coming of Christ--just fat, black, with a lazy eye, and a crack dealer.

Poppa, don't hit me no more = Father, forgive them for what they do

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 11:53 AM
Just thought I'd point out a cool little fact about 'The What', a collabo with Iron Lung. First let me point out that having Mr. Meth as the only guest appearance on your debut album is just bad ass. Onto the song, notice when BIG says "dont tempt me" Tical immeadiately spells "T-H-O-D MAN" as he begins his verse, essentially spelling "dont tempt m-e-t-h-o-d man". To me this has to be one of the best transitions of all time and I think it goes over the heads of almost anyone who hears it still to this day, talk about ahead of their time.

RIP Frank White!

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 12:10 PM
I'd never exactly noticed that myself actually. That song has so many cool fucking nuances, even down to the "ho's is irritating like the hic-(hiccup)-cups, excuse me."

*****, touch me you better bust me three times in the head, or motherfucker's dead--you thought so.

Plus, does anyone know if this was the first popular appearance of "fuck the world" as a phrase in rap? I would guess probably not, but it has to be the song that made it such a slogan.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2008, 12:32 PM
GO GET YOUR MAN, BITCH, HE CAN GET ROBBED TOO
TELL 'EM BIGGIE TOOK IT, WHAT THE FUCK HE GON' DO?

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 12:34 PM
GO GET YOUR MAN, BITCH, HE CAN GET ROBBED TOO
TELL 'EM BIGGIE TOOK IT, WHAT THE FUCK HE GON' DO?

I hope apologetic or I'ma have to set it and if I set it...

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 12:36 PM
The cocksucker won't forget it.


I love how they had to edit out "pregnant." Biggie was so fucking evil when he wanted to be, man--still to this day his shit on tracks like that and Dead Wrong make all other gangsta lyrics look pussy.

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 12:41 PM
I fucking love this thread, and thank you for capping off the collaborative effort Randy.

Give me your absolute single favorite Biggie track. There is no right or wrong answer on this because I know there is too much to choose from, I am just being curious.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2008, 12:43 PM
I really like "Juicy."

IT WAS ALL A DREAM

ShyGuy75
03-03-2008, 12:49 PM
Yet nothing changes the fact of how big of a bitch Biggie was. Why isn't anyone trying to dispute that? Oh, because you can't. Pac gave him a home, money, food, and a kickstart. The repay? Trying to kill him, and then when he failed, tried again and succeeded. I'm glad he died in Puffy's arms. Karma!

Hang your hat on one of if not the biggest bitches to ever grace music. I would expect nothing less of thelastgreatman.

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 12:51 PM
Yet nothing changes the fact of how big of a bitch Biggie was. Why isn't anyone trying to dispute that? Oh, because you can't. Pac gave him a home, money, food, and a kickstart. The repay? Trying to kill him, and then when he failed, tried again and succeeded. I'm glad he died in Puffy's arms. Karma!

Hang your hat on one of if not the biggest bitches to ever grace music. I would expect nothing less of thelastgreatman.

Shy, this is a thread about the MUSIC not about their personal lives which have nothing to do with who the better MC/artist was.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 12:53 PM
I fucking love this thread, and thank you for capping off the collaborative effort Randy.

Give me your absolute single favorite Biggie track. There is no right or wrong answer on this because I know there is too much to choose from, I am just being curious.

"Favorite" is tough. "Best" would have to go to Suicidal Thoughts IMO, just because it's such a unique tone in the genre. I don't think there had ever been a rap song that honest, depressing, and soulful before that point. And it's still an incredibly rare tone to hear 15 years post--only Em has really made songs like that a consistent part of his catalog that I can think of.

"Favorite" though to me means the one I get most hyped listening to. And it's really hard to say, but the front-runners would be: Niggas cause it reminds me of the dope blocks, Dead Wrong cause it's just the most badass shit ever, Warning for obvious reasons, and probably Ten Crack Commandments for obvious personal reasons. I love the fact that the commandments ACTUALLY ARE true guidelines to dealing drugs the right way. And I love how if you're listening to it in a group of people, almost everyone will chime in for Number Four even if it means interrupting conversation. I've been at parties where literally 30 people all having separate conversations just broke into sing-along in unison for that line and then when right back into talking.

JustSteve
03-03-2008, 12:57 PM
damn, a lot of wigger's up in here...

i like how all the typing styles completely changed in this thread, got all ebonic and shit.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Singular possessive form apostrophes look like ebonics, in that they look like you don't know how to read. =)

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 12:59 PM
damn, a lot of wigger's up in here...

i like how all the typing styles completely changed in this thread, got all ebonic and shit.

No "wigger's" here, just people that enjoy rap music that happen to NOT be black...

Randy,

Favorite = Warning
Best = Suicidal Thoughts

Either one of those could fall under the category of "Best Rap Songs Ever"

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:07 PM
Tupac had one the best flows of any rapper to date.

Biggie was a better lyricist.

JustSteve
03-03-2008, 01:10 PM
wonder what this girl thinks...

eTosQerWBzU

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:11 PM
why would her opinion mattter?

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 01:17 PM
Tupac had one the best flows of any rapper to date.

Biggie was a better lyricist.

You actually think Pac flowed more than Biggie? See, that's always weird to me. I hear people say that and it's just confusing--ALL of Big's shit has that smooth-as-fuck slurring way of trailing every word into the next that nobody else does nearly as well. That's "flow," unless you mean something completely different. Pac's inunciation is way more stilted, but he could be given credit for being able to pull off fast meters, which Big never really bothered with--perhaps because he just couldn't do it, but I like to think it's cause his style was just more laidback and sing-y.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:31 PM
Tupac used Prosody and meter to his advantage he was always on point with his beat he could speed up and slow down at anytime and still be on.

Biggie used cadence to his advantage.

This is why guru, and Rakim will always be the greatest rappers ever to me. Their flow was undeniable. Eminem's flow is amazing also.(I cant say I like him, but his flow is undeniably spot on)

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 01:31 PM
but he could be given credit for being able to pull off fast meters, which Big never really bothered with--perhaps because he just couldn't do it, but I like to think it's cause his style was just more laidback and sing-y.

I beg to differ, have we forgotten Notorious Thugs? I mean you talk about murdering a dope track, that song could cut off right after his verse and still be classic.

Like other music, it all depends on the mood for which BIGGIE I like.

To get pumped up, I love Victory.

Hypnotized is one of the very few songs I've heard 1000 + times and STILL never get tired of it. That beat automatically just does it for me.

For a mellow-pimp jam The World is Filled is absolutely classic!
And I'm sure with BIGs assisstance P-Diddy spits his sickest verse ever..

"now first comes the cash/ then comes the ass/ then comes big blunts with big chunks of hash"

Can we really credit Puff for doing that on his own?? No way.

I could talk about this all day......

nationocean
03-03-2008, 01:33 PM
wow. someone wanted to increase their post count..

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 01:34 PM
both of them were shit

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:36 PM
both of them were shit

Who was better?

Be constructive.


hooker.

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 01:36 PM
Tupac used Prosody and meter to his advantage he was always on point with his beat he could speed up and slow down at anytime and still be on.

Biggie used cadence to his advantage.

This is why guru, and Rakim will always be the greatest rappers ever to me. Their flow was undeniable. Eminem's flow is amazing also.(I cant say I like him, but his flow is undeniably spot on)


My favorites as far as hitting beats are Big L and Inspectah Deck.

As amazing as the rest of the WU is, every time Rebel I spits he makes it sound as if the song was made to accomodate his specific verse for it.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Oh yeah Big L.

Top 5 rapper ever.

ThomThom
03-03-2008, 01:39 PM
My favorites as far as hitting beats are Big L and Inspectah Deck.

As amazing as the rest of the WU is, every time Rebel I spits he makes it sound as if the song was made to accomodate his specific verse for it.

Deck was definitely the overall best lyricist that came out of Wu Tang, Big L is a legend in his own right and being on point lyrically with the production was possibly his best trait as an MC. I love them both.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 01:44 PM
I'd take Meth over Deck. I'm not discounting Big L, but even if you want to put him in the top five I hate it when people try to put him in the Notorious One's class.

Justin, define "flow" before we move forward with this. I admit I seem to be unusually biased to Pac's shit for reasons that really aren't just rooted in this classic debate--his voice really doesn't do anything for me, which apparently is a serious minority opinion. Personally, I prefer his part in Around The World to any of his solo shit I've ever heard, hahaha.

faQX-v-KuC4

nationocean
03-03-2008, 01:47 PM
E40 is better than both of them.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 01:47 PM
Correction: I forgot the movie edited out Pac's verse, so here's the right vid. I'm leaving the other one just because that scene rules.

xG8lubKE1VE

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:48 PM
I'd take Meth over Deck. I'm not discounting Big L, but even if you want to put him in the top five I hate it when people try to put him in the Notorious One's class.

Justin, define "flow" before we move forward with this. I admit I seem to be unusually biased to Pac's shit for reasons that really aren't just rooted in this classic debate--his voice really doesn't do anything for me, which apparently is a serious minority opinion. Personally, I prefer his part in Around The World to any of his solo shit I've ever heard, hahaha.

faQX-v-KuC4

Biggie was to fat to flow. He was always trying to catch his breath, he made up for it with candance the "sing-y" stylist

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 01:49 PM
... I need the definition you're working off of here.

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 01:54 PM
Have any of you heard of MC Juice from Chi-town?

He's most recognized for beating Eminem in one of the early Scribble Jam battles. IMO, the best freestyler ever.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 01:56 PM
Im just using what sounds good to me, with speed, meter, clarity, the ability to change with tempo. Enunciate clearly and no unnecessary pauses that fucks up the timing and rhythm of the entire song. One little drop in flow will cause the entire song to be off.

This is why the ability to be a good freestyler leads to amazing rapping and lyrical abilities.

If you can shift up or slow down tempo with a beat to express or highlight a certain sound within a song with your voice that makes for excellent flow also.

Edit: This is why I hate the Beastie boys they try mixing up their flow every 4th beat. Mike D makes me want to slap the shit out of him. The high pitched shit is grating.

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 02:01 PM
How bout Crooked I? That man can flow, straight West Coast Gangsta but with great lyricism! The self proclaimed gangsta/emcee.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 02:01 PM
Have any of you heard of MC Juice from Chi-town?

He's most recognized for beating Eminem in one of the early Scribble Jam battles. IMO, the best freestyler ever.

Find a clip if you can. I'd love to hear someone actually beat Em in a battle for once.

Anyone else see the fucking Blaze Battles tournament where Eyedea got completely fucking robbed? I'd love to see Eye and Em go at it, although Em would be way more caustic and probably win on that strength alone. Eyedea rivals his freestyle abilities on a technical and clever level though, practically.

Mr. Dylanja
03-03-2008, 02:07 PM
Agreed, when it comes to the E-Y-E, "couldn't be the one if KRS was your first name"

I should point out tho that Juice absolutely stole the show in a cipher with him and Sluggo, I cant find a video because I'm at work, but I know theres a video on youtube with him and Ahmad on the Wake Up Show that will give you a good starting point. He's straight punchlines, all off the top, amazing.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 02:08 PM
Im just using what sounds good to me, with speed, meter, clarity, the ability to change with tempo. Enunciate clearly and no unnecessary pauses that fucks up the timing and rhythm of the entire song. One little drop in flow will cause the entire song to be off.

This is why the ability to be a good freestyler leads to amazing rapping and lyrical abilities.

If you can shift up or slow down tempo with a beat to express or highlight a certain sound within a song with your voice that makes for excellent flow also.

Enunciating clearly isn't always preferable though, the accents and slurs are what make some rappers so enjoyable--Biggie, Shyne, Slick Rick just as examples. Interesting you say that, though, because one of the things I don't like about Pac is how precise the words always come out. Feels less smooth to me.

But okay, so you're talking about their ability to match the rhyme and meter to the beat and even more specifically to switch it up without slipping. Fair enough--I'll concede that Big generally always has a consistent cadence through the entire song. I'll even acknowledge that it's the same kind of cadence in like 75 percent of the songs. But it's so fucking cool it never seems like a fault.

And he had a strange ability to make shit rhyme that doesn't actually rhyme using his slur. His slow flow IS remarkable...

dropping shit like a pigeon. =)

Sonicifyouwantit
03-03-2008, 02:10 PM
wonder what this girl thinks...

eTosQerWBzU

I swear that girl is a downy

Young blood
03-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Cadance is also what makes some rappers really shitty i.e 50 cent snoop ect.

Biggie was a master of his his voice and lyrical thought.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Every rap has a cadence to it, some are good some aren't. 50's Til I Collapse freestyle is fucking awesome though, and Snoop WAS the shit.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 04:40 PM
snoop was shit. Majority of west coast rap is terrible.

I strongly dislike him but Sage Francis has a better flow than Eminem.

Fuck there are a load of white rappers with better flow and style.

Buck 65 and Eyedea are two.

as far as great rappers go RZA, Ghostface, Ol Dirty, Common, Del, fuck I prefer L.L. Cool J over pac and biggie.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 04:43 PM
Common, LL, and Timbaland... but not Biggie, Em, or The Grey Album?


Rue, you are not fucking great. FOI was right for once.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 04:53 PM
I never said I actually liked L.L. I said preferred him over pac and biggie.

Common is fucking great. Not every song but he has some amazing tracks. Just listen to soul power off electric circus. It's amazing.

I don't necessarily like Timbaland's style and flow, I like his production value and I like the things he does. His opening track on shock value is great, sampling Nina Simone how many rappers do that? Not a lot. I like him because he isn't so concerned with the bullshit other rappers are. He does what he wants to do and he collaborates with who he wants. Pac and Biggie were too concerned with their images to do anything ground breaking or out of the box.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 04:53 PM
And FOI was wrong, I am fucking great. Better than you anyhow.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 04:56 PM
I never said I actually liked L.L. I said preferred him over pac and biggie.

Common is fucking great. Not every song but he has some amazing tracks. Just listen to soul power off electric circus. It's amazing.

I don't necessarily like Timbaland's style and flow, I like his production value and I like the things he does. His opening track on shock value is great, sampling Nina Simone how many rappers do that? Not a lot. I like him because he isn't so concerned with the bullshit other rappers are. He does what he wants to do and he collaborates with who he wants. Pac and Biggie were too concerned with their images to do anything ground breaking or out of the box.

Are you kidding me? People have sampled Nina Simone TO DEATH. And Common is a just another dork in stupid fucking hats.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 04:58 PM
nice response.

Biggie and Pac never sampled Nina Simone.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 04:59 PM
No, you're right, they didn't. I guess it takes a REAL visionary to sample Nina Simone, even after dozens of other people already did it.


Best use of a Nina sample though is Get By. Goddamn that song fucking rules. I'm gonna listen to it now and pretend I'm quitting drugs.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2008, 05:00 PM
Get By is sick, it's too bad Kweli's shit has been getting progressively more wack since Quality.

None of that matters because his album with Hi-Tek is genuine classic shit.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:01 PM
would you consider pac and biggie to be visionaries? I bet you think Dre and Snoop were as well.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:02 PM
Talib suffers from lack of good production. The album that came out right after that was a huge letdown.

I consider Biggie to be, and Dre and Snoop absolutely were, you absolutely absurd bag of monkey shit.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:05 PM
how the fuck were any of those three visionaries? Dre uses ghost writers for everything, he's never written one rhyme. Snoop is a studio gangster. they were doing what everyone was doing at the time. Just plain old Gangster rap. That shit is boring and played out.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 05:06 PM
snoop was shit. Majority of west coast rap is terrible.

I strongly dislike him but Sage Francis has a better flow than Eminem.

Fuck there are a load of white rappers with better flow and style.

Buck 65 and Eyedea are two.

as far as great rappers go RZA, Ghostface, Ol Dirty, Common, Del, fuck I prefer L.L. Cool J over pac and biggie.

Sage Francis? I would say he has better subject matter than eminem, but not flow.

Buck 65 is fucking bullshit. A canadian "hip-hop-er" with a country twang. He is not even a rapper.

Del hahahahaha I have no comment on that.

LLcoolj for life. He last 4 albums were absolute shit he even admits it.

I cant say anything bad about Ghostface and RZA. Ghostface is a little sloppy, but I give him credit for the lingo thats in left field.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:08 PM
Dre produced. He can't write rhymes, same way Puff can't--this is why they handle making awesome beats and have their rappers write their verses for them.

Doing what everyone was doing? Everyone fucking who? Who was doing gangsta rap before The Chronic except for fucking NWA? The Chronic changed the entire landscape of how much people--not just music fans, but the music industry--paid attention to rap.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:09 PM
every rapper on the west coast was doing gangster rap.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 05:11 PM
Bay area?

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:12 PM
Awesome. How many of them went diamond with album sales?

And Dre still gets credit for being in NWA which to the best of my fucking knowledge were the first gangsta rap act that got anything resembling popularity, so I don't get how you can claim he didn't have a huge impact.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:14 PM
okay every rapper is an overstatement. These are the people who made gangsta rap. Dre and Snoop just capitalized on it.

Schooly D, Ice-T, NWA, The guys from Boogie Down productions (KRS-1 was a huge influence on gangsta rap), Too Short (for young blood).

all those guys were doing gangsta rap before dre and snoop.

Saying dre and snoop started that shit is like saying Nirvana started grunge.

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2008, 05:17 PM
Oops, I meant that THIS is the best rap album of all time

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/26/AmeriKKKa.jpg

Young blood
03-03-2008, 05:18 PM
okay every rapper is an overstatement. These are the people who made gangsta rap. Dre and Snoop just capitalized on it.

Schooly D, Ice-T, NWA, The guys from Boogie Down productions (KRS-1 was a huge influence on gangsta rap), Too Short (for young blood).

all those guys were doing gangsta rap before dre and snoop.

Saying dre and snoop started that shit is like saying Nirvana started grunge.

Im sorry, I miss read your post. I thought you were saying that west coast rappers were only doing gangster. my bad. I see you were put randog in his place.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:21 PM
okay every rapper is an overstatement. These are the people who made gangsta rap. Dre and Snoop just capitalized on it.

Schooly D, Ice-T, NWA, The guys from Boogie Down productions (KRS-1 was a huge influence on gangsta rap), Too Short (for young blood).

all those guys were doing gangsta rap before dre and snoop.

Saying dre and snoop started that shit is like saying Nirvana started grunge.

... How can you say NWA was doing it before Dre? Do you not appreciate how that statement is inherently fucking retarded?

Snoop's innovation was that (a) at the time he completely destroyed every other lyricist and (b) no one was doing a smooth and laidback gangster. Snoop brought Slick Rick style with the most badass lyrics anybody ever heard, and the juxtaposition was sweet.

Real thugs don't yell, Rue.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:26 PM
Because NWA wasn't just Dre. Dre was minimal in that shit.
Ice Cube pretty much wrote everything they did. Dj Yella produced most of their stuff.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:39 PM
You're talking about two different things--lyrics and producing. I don't think you're really in any position to say who did more producing between Yella and Dre, but based on comparing Easy E's shit after NWA to The Chronic and Doggystyle, I think it's clear who was the more talented one.


Listen dude, why don't you head over to The Gap where you can probably get Common's latest album AND some fresh Dockers?

The fact that other people were doing gangsta rap doesn't change the fact that The Chronic changed the landscape of popular music and rap. There could've been a thousand groups doing it--if none of it was good enough to get heard by people it hardly matters. There was psychedelic music before Pink Floyd. The Clash were not the first ever punk band. There was grunge before Nirvana. Great. That doesn't change anything.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:43 PM
Easy was never the talented one in NWA. Ice Cube made that group.

I find it funny that you are saying the bands who make things popular are amazing but you are talking shit on common because he is popular.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:46 PM
Yella produced Easy's solo shit after NWA is my point. If you wanna try and claim that the music for those albums is remotely as good as what Dre did, be my guest. Goddamn you are one argumentative motherfucker. All we need is you, me, and Jack in a room together like Thunderdome--we all argue until only one person's head hasn't exploded.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:51 PM
The best part is the fact that this is an argument that can't be won. Plain and simple, you like Dre I don't. It's not like either of us are going to change the others mind.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 05:53 PM
Shut the fuck up, no way.


Rue, just a shot in the dark--has anyone EVER changed your mind? Since you were, say, 14? Have you ever conceded an argument?

I know my answer, and I'm not proud of it. Fortunately I'm always the one who's right, so it's chill.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 05:54 PM
Actually yes, I've conceded before. It doesn't happen often. If someone can lay substantial proof before me that I am 100% wrong I will concede my point. It's pretty rare that anyone can do that.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 06:00 PM
Arguments that have any kind of possibility of actual proof being used are different. We both knew this was going nowhere.


It's okay, dude. It's called cognitive dissonance, and everyone does it. We just have too much fucking free time and like typing.

Young blood
03-03-2008, 06:01 PM
E-A-Z-Y

not "easy".

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 06:02 PM
... okay, I'll concede that.

Damn, that was easy.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 06:03 PM
thanks blood

menikmati
03-03-2008, 06:04 PM
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc286/dantheman23_47/RapSucks.jpg

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 06:09 PM
Nirvana would have been sweet if they had some sweet rhymes like Limp Bizkit instead of Cobain, Erik. How would you like that?

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 06:10 PM
Nirvana would have been sweet if they were different people and played different music.

menikmati
03-03-2008, 06:12 PM
I actually like some rap, but not the "gangsta" shit. Hieroglyphics/Del, Sage Francis, Talib come to mind.

menikmati
03-03-2008, 06:13 PM
Nirvana would have been sweet if they were different people and played different music.

NWA too.

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm glad you agree with me about Nirvana.

thelastgreatman
03-03-2008, 06:17 PM
I actually like some rap, but not the "gangsta" shit. Hieroglyphics/Del, Sage Francis, Talib come to mind.

Well excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse us for making music about important elements of our environment that are ignored and hidden from the mainstream.


(I'm speaking on behalf of rap)

Trick Loves The Kids
03-03-2008, 06:27 PM
There's a shitload of non-gangster rap that's also non-backpack rap.

Instead of Del, Slick Rick. Instead of Hiero, ATCQ. And so on.

Cheddar's Cousin
03-03-2008, 06:29 PM
Show some love for H Town's Geto Boys...BITCHES!

ruetheday
03-03-2008, 06:33 PM
damn it feels good to be a gansta


my minds playing tricks on me

Mr. Dylanja
03-04-2008, 02:05 PM
bitch in the Benz BUMPin
I laced it wit da basic 6 TV's a system
knockin Mase shit, face it, we hard to it
Guard ya shit, 'fore I stick you for your re-up
Wipe the pee up, six shots woke your seed up
Go in the ashtray spark the weed up, LONG KISS.....

(long kiss referring to what it looks like when some takes a big drag off a blunt, another lyric I think goes way over the heads of most)

PotVsKtl
03-06-2008, 02:08 PM
The big news here is the casting of Biggie Smalls himself. He’ll be played by Brooklyn rapper Jamal Woolard, better known as Gravy.

http://chud.com/articles/articles/13923/1/AN-EAST-COAST-RAPPER-PLAYS-AN-EAST-COAST-RAPPER/Page1.html