PDA

View Full Version : I don't wanna buy your global warming.



marooko
12-10-2007, 09:06 AM
It started as a scare tactic and now it's a marketing scheme. Anyone annoyed by this or buying in? discuss please.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:09 AM
do you have facts or logic to support your position or are you just one of those who form opinions first and then scavange up some half-cocked rationale to back it up later?

marooko
12-10-2007, 09:16 AM
no, i am someone that believes it is an issue, but doesn't agree we should be scared into believing something or have it sold to us.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:18 AM
how would you prefer it be communicated to the public, then?

marooko
12-10-2007, 09:19 AM
like a real fucking issue!!! not something i need to fucking buy to be cool.

Tom, is something going on in your life lately that you're not happy with?

canexplain
12-10-2007, 09:28 AM
dont call it global warming, it just confuses things ... climate change is what it is , and if you dont believe we are screwing up the enviroment, then i dont know what kind of argument i could ever use to convince you ... canx**

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:29 AM
I think it's a plot to overthrow the American way of life. Scientists have an agenda, they want to be God, so they discredit religion and use scare tactics like global warming and evolution to make us do what they say. Caving in on global warming is like giving Carl Sagan a blowjob.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:30 AM
Frederick Nietzche is their philosopher and accomplice.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 09:31 AM
Frederick Nietzche is their philosopher and accomplice.

i like him so that explains why we disagree ... canx**

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:32 AM
Also, Dr. Phil.

Melanie.Dawn
12-10-2007, 09:33 AM
I think it's a plot to overthrow the American way of life. Scientists have an agenda, they want to be God, so they discredit religion and use scare tactics like global warming and evolution to make us do what they say. Caving in on global warming is like giving Carl Sagan a blowjob.

Scare tactis like EVOLUTION?!! Did you really say that?!

marooko
12-10-2007, 09:34 AM
Tom, are you trying to piss me off this morning?


Canex***, call it what you will, my point is I don't wanna purchase it. i didnt start this to discuss whether or not "global warming" is true or not. i strted it to vent, and discuss the fact that its now something to profit from. not for us a humans that live here, but for companies now selling it to us. buy this and you could help "STOP" global warming. thats the point of this thread, not is true or not.

wmgaretjax
12-10-2007, 09:36 AM
I believe in colonizing space to get off this fucking pathetic rock.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 09:38 AM
i like him so that explains why we disagree ... canx**

pssssst. ron. don't tell anyone. we don't actually disagree, you and I. I'm just winding these other people up. having a bit of fun. ok? got it? peace brother.

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 09:39 AM
We need action now. NUKE THE WHALES!

marooko
12-10-2007, 09:40 AM
whelch or actual whales in the ocean?

Melanie.Dawn
12-10-2007, 09:41 AM
Did I completely miss your scarcasim TomAZ?

I hope so.

marooko
12-10-2007, 09:43 AM
Did I completely miss your scarcasim TomAZ?

I hope so.

i wouldnt call it sarcasm, i would call it being bored this morning.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 09:49 AM
Tom, are you trying to piss me off this morning?


Canex***, call it what you will, my point is I don't wanna purchase it. i didnt start this to discuss whether or not "global warming" is true or not. i strted it to vent, and discuss the fact that its now something to profit from. not for us a humans that live here, but for companies now selling it to us. buy this and you could help "STOP" global warming. thats the point of this thread, not is true or not.

oh, sorry misunderstood ... ok then for that question ... the masses are just a bunch of sheep, so how better to show them or even sell them cars, etc that will help the problem, then the old boob tube .... "if it aint on tv, then it aint true" .... and why not start some new businessess that can employ people and do something good in return .... i dont care if a business makes a zillion dollars if they are doing something that in turn is good ... green=good business ... canx**

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 09:52 AM
I took my R.O.V on the Subway with me to work this morning.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 10:06 AM
i guess a good example of how i feel .... i dont believe in god or the bible ... but i think the church and bible makers, IN GENERAL, are a good thing for a lot of people .... i dont agree with them, it is marketing that keeps them growing, but it is business and that is how we live day to day .. canx**

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 10:07 AM
zSd16JQvJwU&rel=1

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 10:18 AM
Tom, are you trying to piss me off this morning?


Canex***, call it what you will, my point is I don't wanna purchase it. i didnt start this to discuss whether or not "global warming" is true or not. i strted it to vent, and discuss the fact that its now something to profit from. not for us a humans that live here, but for companies now selling it to us. buy this and you could help "STOP" global warming. thats the point of this thread, not is true or not.

You don't want to purchase what? The Earth doesn't give a shit whether you spring for the solar powered glowsticks you fucking idiot.

marooko
12-10-2007, 10:32 AM
You don't want to purchase what? The Earth doesn't give a shit whether you spring for the solar powered glowsticks you fucking idiot.

they make solar powered glowsticks? fucking sweet.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 10:36 AM
I hate the "well the climate change was going to happen anyway" argument.
That's retarded. Of course the earth has gone through climate changes before us and will again. So Canada was once covered in palm trees. So fucking what? We weren't here when that happened, we probably wont be here when it happens again. The point is that humans are hastening the process and anyone who doesn't believe that is just completely deluded. We've only got so much land on this planet and if you don't fucking mind we'd like to keep as much of it arable for as long as possible. The furor over carbon emissions has the added benefit of keeping pressure on alternatives to fossil fuels too. The "well we'll just adapt" thing is retarded too. How about I start pulling your house apart piece by piece. You're perfectly capable fixing those pieces every day or simply adapting to living outside. No problem.

Companies exploiting green trends are disgusting, but scammers are scammers, and they exist everywhere. If you're too stupid to figure out how to invest wisely in green practices then just don't do it at all and shut the fuck up. Don't be an asshole and make fun of people who do give a fuck. Just laugh quietly to yourselves while the rest of the world fights to keep your putrid progeny alive.

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 10:45 AM
I hate the "well the climate change was going to happen anyway" argument.
That's retarded. Of course the earth has gone through climate changes before us and will again. So Canada was once covered in palm trees. So fucking what? We weren't here when that happened, we probably wont be here when it happens again. The point is that humans are hastening the process and anyone who doesn't believe that is just completely deluded. We've only got so much land on this planet and if you don't fucking mind we'd like to keep as much of it arable for as long as possible. The furor over carbon emissions has the added benefit of keeping pressure on alternatives to fossil fuels too. The "well we'll just adapt" thing is retarded too. How about I start pulling your house apart piece by piece. You're perfectly capable fixing those pieces every day or simply adapting to living outside. No problem.

Companies exploiting green trends are disgusting, but scammers are scammers, and they exist everywhere. If you're too stupid to figure out how to invest wisely in green practices then just don't do it at all and shut the fuck up. Don't be an asshole and make fun of people who do give a fuck. Just laugh quietly to yourselves while the rest of the world fights to keep your putrid progeny alive.


Wow buddy. Do the other hippies judge your for listening to techno?

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 10:46 AM
Wow buddy. Do the other hippies judge your for listening to techno?

if it were only hippies in charge of green trends then they wouldn't be happening at all.

marooko
12-10-2007, 10:49 AM
Companies exploiting green trends are disgusting, but scammers are scammers, and they exist everywhere.


this is the point of the thread. sorry for thinking you "all" were capable of figuring that out. then i was thinking maybe we can discuss who is genuinely doing good work and who is in it for the money. i dont know what i was thinking.

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 10:52 AM
your thread sucks.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 10:54 AM
And it's retarded.

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 10:54 AM
Your thread is a sucky retard.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 10:57 AM
Wow buddy. Do the other hippies judge your for listening to techno?


this is the point of the thread. sorry for thinking you "all" were capable of figuring that out. then i was thinking maybe we can discuss who is genuinely doing good work and who is in it for the money. i dont know what i was thinking.

Reread the first post in this thread.

"It started as a scare tactic and now it's a marketing scheme. Anyone annoyed by this or buying in? discuss please."

That sounds pretty damn categorical to me. Tom's pretty sharp as far as board members go. I'll bet he agrees.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 10:57 AM
It started as a scare tactic


i didnt start this to discuss whether or not "global warming" is true or not.


sorry for thinking you "all" were capable of figuring that out.

http://www.birdhouse.org/blog/images/waffle_assn.jpg

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:02 AM
this is the point of the thread. sorry for thinking you "all" were capable of figuring that out. then i was thinking maybe we can discuss who is genuinely doing good work and who is in it for the money. i dont know what i was thinking.

then all you're bitching about is human nature. scams abound everywhere.

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 11:03 AM
http://www.birdhouse.org/blog/images/waffle_assn.jpg

Waffles are pancakes with syrup traps.

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 11:04 AM
This thread would be a lot shorter if you just stick to the basics - Marooko goes on Ignore and "view post" is not an option.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:05 AM
Reread the first post in this thread.

"It started as a scare tactic and now it's a marketing scheme. Anyone annoyed by this or buying in? discuss please."

That sounds pretty damn categorical to me. Tom's pretty sharp as far as board members go. I'll bet he agrees.

I read the first post in this thread as marooko's indictment of the whole "global warming" thing as a "marketing scheme" with no real science or fact behind it.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 11:09 AM
wow, i cant believe i agree with everything jackstraw says .... i guess i should read his post more closely ... we need all the commrads (yes i said that on purpose) we can get ... canx**

schoolofruckus
12-10-2007, 11:12 AM
I hate the "well the climate change was going to happen anyway" argument.
That's retarded. Of course the earth has gone through climate changes before us and will again. So Canada was once covered in palm trees. So fucking what? We weren't here when that happened, we probably wont be here when it happens again. The point is that humans are hastening the process and anyone who doesn't believe that is just completely deluded. We've only got so much land on this planet and if you don't fucking mind we'd like to keep as much of it arable for as long as possible. The furor over carbon emissions has the added benefit of keeping pressure on alternatives to fossil fuels too. The "well we'll just adapt" thing is retarded too. How about I start pulling your house apart piece by piece. You're perfectly capable fixing those pieces every day or simply adapting to living outside. No problem.

Companies exploiting green trends are disgusting, but scammers are scammers, and they exist everywhere. If you're too stupid to figure out how to invest wisely in green practices then just don't do it at all and shut the fuck up. Don't be an asshole and make fun of people who do give a fuck. Just laugh quietly to yourselves while the rest of the world fights to keep your putrid progeny alive.

I agree with Jack up until the last part.

Regardless of whether or not we're all about to be killed by Manbearpig, there's no reason not to be environmentally conscious and take care of the planet around you. Fuck the bumper stickers and t-shirts and Lance Armstrong wristbands. But why wouldn't you recycle or support energy conservation bills and practices?

Oh wait. We're talking to Marooko. Nevermind. Here you go, tiger:

http://www.mouserunner.com/Icons/Icons_Full_Previews/Shiny_Things_Preview.png

marooko
12-10-2007, 11:12 AM
This thread would be a lot shorter if you just stick to the basics - Marooko goes on Ignore and "view post" is not an option.
you're so cool.

I read the first post in this thread as marooko's indictment of the whole "global warming" thing as a "marketing scheme" with no real science or fact behind it.

"It started as a scare tactic..." (global warming)

"...and now it's a marketing scheme." (global warming)

"Anyone annoyed by this or buying in?" (this= marketing scheme)
(buying in= buying because its now available to buy, not because its a problem. just because now there is something else to buy.)

"discuss" = discussion as to whether or not you're annoyed buy the marketing scheme?

algunz
12-10-2007, 11:13 AM
I can relate some to marook's frustration. The marketing does in a way trivialize the import of the issue. When they use children dieing of AIDS in Africa to sell product for example, it can be a bit disheartening. BUT, at least the money (albeit a portion only) is going somewhere productive and the issue (whatever it may be) is being dispensed to the masses.

marooko
12-10-2007, 11:15 AM
I can relate some to marook's frustration. The marketing does in a way trivialize the import of the issue. When they use children dieing of AIDS in Africa to sell product for example, it can be a bit disheartening. BUT, at least the money (albeit a portion only) is going somewhere productive and the issue (whatever it may be) is being dispensed to the masses.

thank you gunz, i can now go eat lunch in peace.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 11:17 AM
1ItU6tkdF2A&rel=1

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 11:19 AM
I litter on the highway, because I want to keep Jackstraw employed.

schoolofruckus
12-10-2007, 11:21 AM
Calling it a "scare tactic" trivializes the importance of the issue just as much as some would-be entrepreneur selling t-shirts based off of it. More so, in fact, because at least the businessman is promoting awareness.

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 11:22 AM
I flick cigarette butts out the window of my gas guzzling truck because my girlfriend hates it and lets me know she hates it. Communicating and expressing your feelings are important for a successful relationship.

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 11:26 AM
Bilking old people out of their emission credits is so hot right now.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 11:28 AM
I flick cigarette butts out the window of my gas guzzling truck because my girlfriend hates it and lets me know she hates it. Communicating and expressing your feelings are important for a successful relationship.

thats funny, i do those kind of things too lol ... but tygerlady knows i do it, so it always comes back :) and on this specific post, i used to throw things out of my car all the time, never even thought about it, and now for at least 15 years or so, i never ever do that ... marketing, conscience, it doesnt matter, just that i do it (or dont do it in this case) is the bottom line ... hey i want to be here for another 50 years, and if you guys screw it up, i will post the meanest post here ever in the next 25 years :) canx**

full on idle
12-10-2007, 11:29 AM
I'm scared to try and get California registration for my car because I have never had to do an emissions test and I don't know if my car will pass. If my car doesn't pass, I don't know what I will do with my car.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:30 AM
marooko you aren't making a lick of sense to me. are you debating the merits of the global warming argument, or are you criticisizing the hucksterism that is a part of human nature?

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 11:30 AM
I'm scared to try and get California registration for my car because I have never had to do an emissions test and I don't know if my car will pass. If my car doesn't pass, I don't know what I will do with my car.

You can take over my lease and give me your car. Problem solved.

full on idle
12-10-2007, 11:34 AM
I can't afford your lease and you know this.

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 11:35 AM
marooko you aren't making a lick of sense to me. are you debating the merits of the global warming argument, or are you criticisizing the hucksterism that is a part of human nature?

Tom - why are you doing this? Do you expect a serious, well thought out discussion on this topic from Marooko?

I just don't get it. You can't actually feel a sense of accomplishment or enlightenment through this? Your forehead is already bleeding from the brick wall.

DFTT

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 11:36 AM
I hear Pot's car runs on dead whores' blood.

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 11:36 AM
Dump it in the ocean, and take a tax write off for creating homes for fishys.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:38 AM
Tom - why are you doing this? Do you expect a serious, well thought out discussion on this topic from Marooko?

I just don't get it. You can't actually feel a sense of accomplishment or enlightenment through this? Your forehead is already bleeding from the brick wall.

DFTT

i just want to know what the fuck he's talking about.

rage patton
12-10-2007, 11:41 AM
We need action now. NUKE THE WHALES!

My thoughts exactly.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 11:41 AM
He's talking about all the BP "we're doing our part" commercials I suspect. I also want to take time out of my day to whine about energy corporations having PR departments.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 11:41 AM
http://www.dezeen.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/render_green_040412_0001.jpg

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:43 AM
I suspect he's saying that while the whole climate change argument may have its merits, the way it is presented to the public has a lot of flaws and is creating a backlash that will wind up harming "the cause" more than helping it. If this is what he's saying, that's a topic worth discussing, as I agree to some extent.

but his posts on the topic have been a bit garbled so I'm not sure what the hell he's getting at really.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 11:44 AM
He's talking about all the BP "we're doing our part" commercials I suspect. I also want to take time out of my day to whine about energy corporations having PR departments.

oh if that's what he's saying, that does seem like a silly thing to get upset about.

marooko
12-10-2007, 11:44 AM
just let it go. i did.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 11:45 AM
chevron...people do...

Alchemy
12-10-2007, 11:49 AM
Wow.

Despite being on strike, the writers of my post have come back to say that some of the people on this board are idiots. No surprise. It also scares me to know that there are "environmental geologists" out there who don't believe in global warming. Sort of a surprise, but not really.

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 11:49 AM
I like the BP and Chevron ads that litter National Geographic. I figure things can't be that bad if they're hip to the problem. They got a plan.

rage patton
12-10-2007, 12:09 PM
I have already discussed all my thoughts on this in the world war III thread.

Basically I believe climate change is happening, not global warming. Climate change is a natural thing. It happened 10,000 years ago when the ice caps melted, and now it is happening again. However, due to polution, etc., we are speeding up the process. We did not "create" climate change, and we cannot stop it. We can slow it down however.
Also, Al Gore winning a Nobel Prize is a joke.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 12:14 PM
I have already discussed all my thoughts on this in the world war III thread.

Basically I believe climate change is happening, not global warming. Climate change is a natural thing. It happened 10,000 years ago when the ice caps melted, and now it is happening again. However, due to polution, etc., we are speeding up the process. We did not "create" climate change, and we cannot stop it. We can slow it down however.
Also, Al Gore winning a Nobel Prize is a joke.

You just agreed with him jackass.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:15 PM
the rate of change points to the industrial link. makes scientists think that the 'upper bound' on climate change is much higher now. so yes the earth is heating up faster than ever and we may get to a point where it's hotter than it's ever been. and no one knows how sustainable life would be at that point.

Melanie.Dawn
12-10-2007, 12:18 PM
Wow.
It also scares me to know that there are "environmental geologists" out there who don't believe in global warming. Sort of a surprise, but not really.

It suprises me that people discredit the educated because of what they see on TV or read in magazines.

rage patton
12-10-2007, 12:19 PM
You just agreed with him jackass.

No one has brought up the point that Al Gore has won a Nobel Prize for his "efforts" though.

algunz
12-10-2007, 12:20 PM
With a name like Alchemy, I wouldn't assume anything about his lack of knowledge.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:21 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Gore won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 12:22 PM
... Seriously? Yeah... cause in order to know the word "alchemy," why, one would have to be some kind of genius... or play D & D.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 12:22 PM
It suprises me that people discredit the educated because of what they see on TV or read in magazines.

as opposed to people who just inherently know that the majority are always wrong?

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 12:23 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Gore won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

is that the guy that was on 30 Rock?

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 12:23 PM
Al Gore isnt black?

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:23 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Roker won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
I dont buy it either. My mom is actually an environmental geologist and she always sends me information about how its not the end of the world like everyone would like us to believe it is. Yes, perhaps the weather is changing and perhaps it is getting a little warmer, but it doesn't mean the earth is going to explode. I like to think of it like this... When the dinosaurs ruled the earth, it was hot and tropical pretty much everywhere. I'm in Canada, and its covered in snow right now... but way back when, it was covered in palm trees. What makes this weather the correct weather? According to my lovely mother, we are techinally still in what is considered an 'ice age'... I dont fear global warming. I welcome it.

Humans are the most adaptable creatures. We are like virus's. I'm sure if the whole world turned to liquid magma, we would somehow make magma proof ships to live in and grow genetically engineered vegetables and clone cows to eat.

This is the most intellectually bankrupt, illogical, flat out stupefyingly incorrect line of thinking I've seen all week. Also, the last ice age ended 10,000 years ago.


It suprises me that people discredit the educated because of what they see on TV or read in magazines.

Oh look!

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
And then he ate it.

algunz
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
... Seriously? Yeah... cause in order to know the word "alchemy," why, one would have to be some kind of genius... or play D & D.

Have you completely lost your sense of humor or scent for sarcasm?

What's wrong with you?

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 12:24 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Roker won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

Oh. He's that guy that called out Imus for being a bigot.
What does he know? He was really fat!

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 12:25 PM
Next time be funny and I'll smell it.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 12:25 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Roker won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

Don't kid. He cut his personal greenhouse gas emissions by 50% since 2000.

canexplain
12-10-2007, 12:25 PM
my favorite argument from the right, the christian right ... "we think we can change the world, we are so insigificant in the sceme sp of things, we just think we can change the world we cant change the world , only god can"

ok i say lets explode all the nukes eveyone in the world has, and see if we change the world ... k, maybe a bit extream, but we are talking of extream times eh, so i say lets prove our point, then go on with what is left (no pun intended) of the world ... babies ... mad max coachella style ... just taking in the general population, i think the stats of who survived, the stats of this board would be pretty up there and cool .. geez did i get out there on this one ... lalalalla canx**

thinnerair
12-10-2007, 12:26 PM
Also, the last ice age ended 10,000 years ago.


Actually, the last Ice Age ended with:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6302261589.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 12:28 PM
Even if humanity had no impact on climate change (which is a load of shit, but I'll just grant it for the argument), that doesn't mean dicksquat about reducing emissions and focusing on alternative energy sources.

Oil is a NONrenewable resource. It will run out. We run our entire global economy on a resource that will someday be gone. So, even if you feel smug about the liberal scientific elite concocting a lie, know that not even the most fascist of right wingers would deny that some day, there will no longer be oil.

full on idle
12-10-2007, 12:28 PM
is that the guy that was on 30 Rock?

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/200711/20071106tv_rock_500.jpg

GREENZO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rage patton
12-10-2007, 12:32 PM
Hey everybody! did you know Al Gore won the Nobel Prize for his efforts to call attention to the problems caused by climate change?

I assumed everyone here knew. I just think its a joke. Al Gore seems think this is some kind of Holy war.
He believes it is something we can completely stop. Which we cant. There are things we can do to slow it down, but we cannot stop it.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 12:33 PM
He believes it is something we can completely stop.

No, he doesn't. Knowing things is fun and helpful.

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 12:33 PM
I assumed everyone here knew. I just think its a joke. Al Gore seems think this is some kind of Holy war.
He believes it is something we can completely stop. Which we cant. There are things we can do to slow it down, but we cannot stop it.

Are you sure that's what he thinks?

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:35 PM
I assumed everyone here knew. I just think its a joke. Al Gore seems think this is some kind of Holy war.
He believes it is something we can completely stop. Which we cant. There are things we can do to slow it down, but we cannot stop it.

I think you're confused. Al Gore is not saying we can stop the climactic fluctuations that have occured naturally over the billions of years of the history of the planet. He's saying we can and should stop the specific human activities that have led to the sharp acceleration of that change in the past 150 years.

algunz
12-10-2007, 12:36 PM
I think Rage needs to view the PowerPoint again.

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 12:37 PM
No, not right. He thinks we will stop it now and that we will turn the world back so there's no pollution, cut down trees or acid rain. And the unicorns will join us once again.

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:39 PM
it would be cool if he could reverse the aging process too.

marooko
12-10-2007, 12:39 PM
You just agreed with him jackass.


No, he doesn't. Knowing things is fun and helpful.


the second quote makes the first one funny.

algunz
12-10-2007, 12:44 PM
We need Superman to get angry and fly around the earth in reverse.

Melanie.Dawn
12-10-2007, 12:52 PM
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html

so maybe I was wrong about the ice age thing

rage patton
12-10-2007, 12:56 PM
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x224/joshmusic88/windowslivewriteriwanttohelpsavealg.gif

TomAz
12-10-2007, 12:56 PM
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/GlobWarmTest/start.html


that is hardly a balanced and unbaised website.

Melanie.Dawn
12-10-2007, 01:00 PM
How does that make it any less true than other articles out there putting all the blame on humans?

Whatever I guess. I'm not going to change anyone's mind and vice versa. I'm not looking at this thread anymore.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 01:02 PM
There are no serious articles putting all the blame all on humans. There are no serious scientists putting all the blame on humans. You are arguing against what we call a straw man. Considering your mother is an "environmental geologist" who believes we are in an ice age, it's not surprising you have a warped view of the argument. Does she work for the Creation Museum?

TomAz
12-10-2007, 01:02 PM
How does that make it any less true than other articles out there putting all the blame on humans?
how does it being unbalance and biased make it any less true? did you really ask that?

also, here's this:
http://www.nasa.gov/worldbook/global_warming_worldbook.html


also, this provides interesting insight into the "debate" itself
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/edu/gwdebate/

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 01:04 PM
Vw5Vcnjv5Bo

marooko
12-10-2007, 01:06 PM
you guys still here?

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 01:06 PM
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1653

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Shut the fuck up marooko, this is our thread now that you've bailed out like a JAP at a hog farm.

Alchemy
12-10-2007, 01:07 PM
It suprises me that people discredit the educated because of what they see on TV or read in magazines.

I discredit your ill-informed example of the educated due to evidence. You assume evidence that I see on TV, but I happen to be a student at a university. I have taken classes about the effect humanity has on the Earth because I AM AN ANTHROPOLOGY MINOR (study of humans, so global warming is kind of important to us), so there is your magazine Ms. Dawn. I am around people who have earned doctorates in geology and anthropology all the time, and they love to chat about this. I'm no expert on global warming, but you don't need to be an expert to know how to filter out pseudo-scientific claims, or poorly developed ideas. It isn't strange that the educated people I speak of greatly outnumber the ones you speak of? Here's a good magazine for you, even though they are "inferior" to your environmental geologist: The Skeptical Inquirer.




Also, technically, it wouldn't really be a smart thing for a person to be named Alchemy due to its connection to historical thinkers and innovators, because now-a-days alchemy is a hokey thing. That's why chemistry is around, but alchemy is an exciting history subject, and as previously said, a good addition to a dungeons and dragons game.

Still though, I have come across bits and pieces of knowledge at school. It's not all alchemy here.

marooko
12-10-2007, 01:10 PM
Shut the fuck up marooko, this is our thread now that you've bailed out like a JAP at a hog farm.

fuck you.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 01:12 PM
N__UBXS_o7U

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 01:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/amafifa/globalwarming.jpg

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 01:55 PM
http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1653

I love Henry Waxman. But he's really got to be in the running for the ugliest man on earth competition.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 01:56 PM
http://cobweb.ecn.purdue.edu/~pbarr/waxman.jpg

bballarl
12-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Global warming is the new trucker hat.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:02 PM
a couple of you got it.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 02:05 PM
We all got it. You called global warming a scare tactic then tried to back out of it. Go fall in a ditch.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:10 PM
We all got it. You called global warming a scare tactic then tried to back out of it. Go fall in a ditch.

no, you said i called it a scare tactic.

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 02:15 PM
Then you aren't capable of communicating effectively with non-tarded human beings. Either way I'd prefer it if you were below sea level.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:18 PM
Then you aren't capable of communicating effectively with non-tarded human beings. Either way I'd prefer it if you were below sea level.

i think its more like, you cant understand what you read and refuse to ask questions. you just assume its an irrelvant topic due to your lack of understanding.

wanna go swimming?

PotVsKtl
12-10-2007, 02:22 PM
Ignored. Delete.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:22 PM
no, you said i called it a scare tactic.

are you suggesting potvsktl wrote your very first post in this thread?


I'm starting to get a little worried here. do we need to call an ambulance?

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:26 PM
Ignored. Delete.



i think im gonna cry now.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:29 PM
are you suggesting potvsktl wrote your very first post in this thread?


I'm starting to get a little worried here. do we need to call an ambulance?

fucking genius!!!! what took you so long to figure that out?

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:34 PM
fucking genius!!!! what took you so long to figure that out?


You have the subtlety of a steak knife. You're not smart enough to joke your way out of a fuck up.

Your first post contradicts your subsequent posts. period. It doesn't matter what you meant to convey. That's what was conveyed. If you didn't intend for that to happen then you're just an inarticulate slob with no sense humor.

Alchemy
12-10-2007, 02:39 PM
I've never put anybody on ignore before, but I am sure doctors would advise me that Marooko's posts aren't good for my health.

So I'll start there.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:39 PM
im guess you werent sitting up straight when you typed this one.


are you suggesting potvsktl wrote your very first post in this thread?


I'm starting to get a little worried here. do we need to call an ambulance?

This one I'm thinking you were.


You have the subtlety of a steak knife. You're not smart enough to joke your way out of a fuck up.

Your first post contradicts your subsequent posts. period. It doesn't matter what you meant to convey. That's what was conveyed. If you didn't intend for that to happen then you're just an inarticulate slob with no sense humor.

Alchemy
12-10-2007, 02:40 PM
This message is hidden because marooko is on your ignore list.

Is the smartest thing I've ever seen in one of Marooko's posts.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 02:41 PM
zSd16JQvJwU&rel=1

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:41 PM
you're just flailing like a bleeding toddler right now. It's pretty amusing actually. Your little "you're too stupid to get what I'm saying" bit is adorable.

J~$$$
12-10-2007, 02:43 PM
Marooko= garbage fires.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:46 PM
you're just flailing like a bleeding toddler right now. It's pretty amusing actually. Your little "you're too stupid to get what I'm saying" bit is adorable.

thats not at all what im saying.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:48 PM
thats not at all what im saying.

you just did it again.

This is starting to feel like a video game.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:49 PM
that wont work.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:50 PM
*ding*

marooko now waddles back to the left.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:51 PM
i will never go left.

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 02:53 PM
that's why it's so amusing when you do.

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:53 PM
so how have you been?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 02:54 PM
It started as a scare tactic and now it's a marketing scheme. Anyone annoyed by this or buying in? discuss please.

Talk to Greenland....

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:55 PM
Talk to Greenland....

talk to my ass.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 02:57 PM
talk to my ass.

I thought I was...

marooko
12-10-2007, 02:59 PM
in a way.

Wheres the beef?
12-10-2007, 03:00 PM
I dont buy it either. My mom is actually an environmental geologist and she always sends me information about how its not the end of the world like everyone would like us to believe it is. Yes, perhaps the weather is changing and perhaps it is getting a little warmer, but it doesn't mean the earth is going to explode. I like to think of it like this... When the dinosaurs ruled the earth, it was hot and tropical pretty much everywhere. I'm in Canada, and its covered in snow right now... but way back when, it was covered in palm trees. What makes this weather the correct weather? According to my lovely mother, we are techinally still in what is considered an 'ice age'... I dont fear global warming. I welcome it.

Humans are the most adaptable creatures. We are like virus's. I'm sure if the whole world turned to liquid magma, we would somehow make magma proof ships to live in and grow genetically engineered vegetables and clone cows to eat.

All the hype is good though too, because a lot of things are starting to change for the better, environment wise. Just because I dont believe in global warming as something bad and dangerous, doesn't mean I dont believe in recycling, cutting down exhaust emmisions, eating organic food, etc...
I saw a commerical on TV the other day for a car that has pure water vapour emmisions... and it made me very happy. So all this attention to global warming isn't going to hurt anybody. Whatever it takes I guess.


Your mom might want to try a biology class.

marooko
12-10-2007, 03:01 PM
i said nothing about the veracity of the argument, i was refering to how it is being sold to you, me and everyone else.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 03:01 PM
Your mom might want to try a biology class.

Burn.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 03:04 PM
i said nothing about the veracity of the argument, i was refering to how it is being sold to you, me and everyone else.

Yeah, in a way a lot of people are going to sell it as a scare tactic to profit from it but that is the way the world works...I have been following the argument since before Al Gore made it fashionable but really there is no other way to explain it other then scare tactics.. when most of the major economic cities are at sea level by the ocean (Hong Kong, Tokyo, LA, New York, Seattle, Shanghai, Mumbai, London), how else do you explain that one day these cities will all be under water because of our doing?

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 03:05 PM
It started as a scare tactic and now it's a marketing scheme. Anyone annoyed by this or buying in? discuss please.


no, you said i called it a scare tactic.


Marooko. Are these not your words? How much gas have you huffed in your lifetime?

Edit: And FUCK you guys for making me hit "view post." GODDDAMN I hate myself.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 03:12 PM
BTW: is Marooko your real name? because if that is the case we have the same damn name...

Yablonowitz
12-10-2007, 03:14 PM
BTW: is Marooko your real name? because if that is the case we have the same damn name...

Is that something you'd want publicly released?

marooko
12-10-2007, 03:14 PM
BTW: is Marooko your real name? because if that is the case we have the same damn name...


are you fucking serious?

TomAz
12-10-2007, 03:26 PM
Yeah, in a way a lot of people are going to sell it as a scare tactic to profit from it but that is the way the world works...

well, yeah. More precisely, what the "global warming people" are trying to do is get masses of people to change their behavior. Like, billions. How do you get masses of people to change? well.. advertising/mass marketing worked for Coke, so why wouldn't it work for responsible environmental behavior? it may be annoying, but, can you think of a better idea that might actually work?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
12-10-2007, 03:30 PM
well, yeah. More precisely, what the "global warming people" are trying to do is get masses of people to change their behavior. Like, billions. How do you get masses of people to change? well.. advertising/mass marketing worked for Coke, so why wouldn't it work for responsible environmental behavior? it may be annoying, but, can you think of a better idea that might actually work?

Nope, it is the way it needs to be done...I agree with you %100 on this...

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 04:27 PM
well, yeah. More precisely, what the "global warming people" are trying to do is get masses of people to change their behavior. Like, billions. How do you get masses of people to change? well.. advertising/mass marketing worked for Coke, so why wouldn't it work for responsible environmental behavior? it may be annoying, but, can you think of a better idea that might actually work?

bowie hand jobs.

full on idle
12-10-2007, 04:39 PM
Flailing around like a bleeding toddler made me cringe.

Lt. Dangel
12-10-2007, 05:34 PM
Personally Im more annoyed with the convenience of this "all of the sudden we get it" global warming advertising barage than the barage itself.

Marooko why dont you just say what you really think...that you hate the collective corporate convenience of it all.

Academics/Scientists/Dudes that spend their entire lives studying this shit have known global warming/climate change has been happening for a "relatively" long time now, and have been sharing these findings with our government for years. Youre just pissed off that as a collectivity the corporations and the media (the corporate voice) have all agreed at once to "get it" all of a sudden and cash in.

A better question is: Who decided and how was it decided: when it would be a good time to start giving a damn? And I gaurantee the decision of when to give a damn was conveniently cooridinated with the release of Gore's movie...thats one thing I am sure of.

It seems to me a decision that big would have to involve a collectivity of the energy status quo including but not limited to: fossil fuels, renewable sources, and nuclear sources (coal, petroleum, and natural gas,solar, wind, hydroelectric, biomass, and geothermal power, fission and fusion), and the profit potential within each category....which is a complex equation, nonetheless an easier equation to calculate once everybody is on board the "Global Warming is fuked up" Ship, and time has been given to investigate the technological and economic feasability of transitioning to renewable resources.

Personally I think the Bush Administration was a gauranteed 8 more years of Fossil Fuel profits and nothing more than an agreed upon deal drawn up to appease Oil /Natural Gas Powers concerns that a transition to renewable energies would move too quickly. Basically the Bush administration, as I see it, is the offensive line giving their quaterback (fossil fuels) enough time to make a clean completion for big yardage to set up for a field goal before energy half time.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 05:36 PM
YAK BALLZ!

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 05:51 PM
well, yeah. More precisely, what the "global warming people" are trying to do is get masses of people to change their behavior. Like, billions. How do you get masses of people to change? well.. advertising/mass marketing worked for Coke, so why wouldn't it work for responsible environmental behavior? it may be annoying, but, can you think of a better idea that might actually work?

My real issue with this tactic is that it completely misses the point. Motivating civilians to recycle and shit is, I'm sorry, but a very tiny piece of the problem. Even government measures like the Kyoto protocol are ignoring the fact that until "green" methods are made affordable, corporations will not adopt them--cannot adopt them. If the global warming people and the government wanted to really make ecological reform possible their main priority would be funding and motivating research into any and all clean alternatives at a cost comparable to our current fuels.

Economics dictates everything. Guilt does nothing. Neither does hippie bullshit or Al Gore and certainly not documentaries, heavens no. Even if the western world got such a stick up their asses about things that we forced our corporations to start acting better it's still financially unfeasible for them to truly switch to green measures, which still doesn't do anything about the 2.5 billion people in Asia that have much bigger worries than global warming and are trying to mobilize an industrial power as quickly as possible.

marooko
12-10-2007, 05:56 PM
Personally Im more annoyed with the convenience of this "all of the sudden we get it" global warming advertising barage than the barage itself.

Marooko why dont you just say what you really think...that you hate the collective corporate convenience of it all.

Academics/Scientists/Dudes that spend their entire lives studying this shit have known global warming/climate change has been happening for a "relatively" long time now, and have been sharing these findings with our government for years. Youre just pissed off that as a collectivity the corporations and the media (the corporate voice) have all agreed at once to "get it" all of a sudden and cash in.


absolutely correct. it bothers me that its now a money making scheme, nothing to due with the facts at all. none of the commercials i hear give any facts about global warming or climate change or whatever you wanna call it, but they do tell you exactly who to send money to, to make it right. hence: i dont wanna buy(purchase) your global warming.

yeah, maybe good will come of it, but isnt this a major problem? buy, buy, buy. is it really the thought that counts? do the ends really justify the means? thats not to say companies shouldnt be offering ways to minimize our carbon footprint, but do we have to dupe people into buying more crap? its like a charity that collects millions of dollars and has an outrageous overhead, are they really trying to do good, or make money?

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 05:58 PM
Um... what are the global warming people trying to convince people to buy? And how do you think they're going to get anything accomplished without funding?

Alchemy
12-10-2007, 06:07 PM
Personally Im more annoyed with the convenience of this "all of the sudden we get it" global warming advertising barage than the barage itself.

Marooko why dont you just say what you really think...that you hate the collective corporate convenience of it all.

Academics/Scientists/Dudes that spend their entire lives studying this shit have known global warming/climate change has been happening for a "relatively" long time now, and have been sharing these findings with our government for years. Youre just pissed off that as a collectivity the corporations and the media (the corporate voice) have all agreed at once to "get it" all of a sudden and cash in.

A better question is: Who decided and how was it decided: when it would be a good time to start giving a damn? And I gaurantee the decision of when to give a damn was conveniently cooridinated with the release of Gore's movie...thats one thing I am sure of.

It seems to me a decision that big would have to involve a collectivity of the energy status quo including but not limited to: fossil fuels, renewable sources, and nuclear sources (coal, petroleum, and natural gas,solar, wind, hydroelectric, biomass, and geothermal power, fission and fusion), and the profit potential within each category....which is a complex equation, nonetheless an easier equation to calculate once everybody is on board the "Global Warming is fuked up" Ship, and time has been given to investigate the technological and economic feasability of transitioning to renewable resources.

I'm sure Marooko doesn't think that. He doesn't think much at all, it seems.

Big corporations try and "cash in" all the time. Global warming is not exactly a special case. As far as the government is concerned, global warming is not something they wanted to throw out there. I mean, look at how the Bush administration handled global warming all this time. Paying "scientists" to lie with nonsense "facts". The only reason they are more open about it now is because its getting harder to persuade people that global warming is not happening (especially that big corporations are using it for sales, which is a good thing in a way). The last thing the government needs is for the general public to start listening to scientists. Scientists say things like, "Let's try making an alternative to oil." It would be very bad for business and politics to let scientists get their word in.

What I am saying is that you can't say scientists have been keeping quiet in some conspiracy against you, because that isn't true. Scientists have been publishing this shit for years. The mass media just wasn't interested until somebody like Al Gore did a movie on it. You shouldn't see Al Gore as a bad guy, because although he can be seen as biased at times; He gave a better voice to those scientists who are trying to figure things out and solve things as unbiased as possible.

marooko
12-10-2007, 06:19 PM
Um... what are the global warming people trying to convince people to buy? And how do you think they're going to get anything accomplished without funding?

not a material object, more like a service. you pay to minimze your carbon footprint. and not that they shouldnt offer such services, but maybe they can educate people, not scare, lie or just sell. we can all learn to do things to minimize our effect on the planet, as opposed to just paying some fee and hoping it gets done and doing nothing more. maybe with education and funding, a real difference can be made.

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 06:23 PM
As I've said, the only way to actually make a difference is to make more environment friendly power mechanisms fiscally reasonable. This will take money. But yes, you're right in that not nearly enough of that money is going towards this end. Aside from that, you've been an awful pain in the ass with this thread. Please cut it the fuck out. Thank you.

marooko
12-10-2007, 06:30 PM
and i thought there was actually gonna be discussion on the topic.

thelastgreatman
12-10-2007, 06:33 PM
There's been enough. Look, what do you want? You think just because they're on the right side they're not going to be fuckups? You think the corporations aren't going to co-opt it and put it in their commercials? This is what happens when a problem is too big for any single person to actually do anything about. This is why there are commercials asking us to send money to feed starving Africans, when the fact is that each one of those donations and helping hands is merely prolonging the continued suffering of people living in world that has no infrastructure with which to support their lifes. Our carbon footprints are bullshit. But people want a pacifier. And sometimes pacifiers are worth having in the meantime.

marooko
12-10-2007, 06:38 PM
But people want a pacifier.

so true.

roberto73
12-10-2007, 06:39 PM
and i thought there was actually gonna be discussion on the topic.

You've got six pages. Granted, it took three to figure out what the hell your original post was about, so you should be thankful you got this much.

marooko
12-10-2007, 06:45 PM
thankful, im elated.

kreutz2112
12-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Caving in on global warming is like giving Carl Sagan a blowjob.

i read like 6 posts into this thread and stopped because this is all that matters. hilarious tom.

Mr.Nipples
12-10-2007, 08:41 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/seagal_blog275x281.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/es335.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/flyingv.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/live_fist.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/live_bar.jpg

betao
12-10-2007, 08:42 PM
al gore for coachella 08!

Wheres the beef?
12-10-2007, 09:44 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/seagal_blog275x281.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/funkychowder/seagal/flyingv.jpg


Holy shit. I didn't know On Deadly Ground was also a band!

jackstraw94086
12-10-2007, 11:11 PM
http://www.animalshaveproblemstoo.com/pics/431.gif

Alchemy
12-11-2007, 05:20 AM
9IjGNJPNyzU

TomAz
12-11-2007, 05:55 AM
My real issue with this tactic is that it completely misses the point. Motivating civilians to recycle and shit is, I'm sorry, but a very tiny piece of the problem. Even government measures like the Kyoto protocol are ignoring the fact that until "green" methods are made affordable, corporations will not adopt them--cannot adopt them. If the global warming people and the government wanted to really make ecological reform possible their main priority would be funding and motivating research into any and all clean alternatives at a cost comparable to our current fuels.

Economics dictates everything. Guilt does nothing. Neither does hippie bullshit or Al Gore and certainly not documentaries, heavens no. Even if the western world got such a stick up their asses about things that we forced our corporations to start acting better it's still financially unfeasible for them to truly switch to green measures, which still doesn't do anything about the 2.5 billion people in Asia that have much bigger worries than global warming and are trying to mobilize an industrial power as quickly as possible.

I think the idea is that only by getting the public firmly in favor of strong measures to curb global warming can governments put in place the tough and costly regulations on industry to make it happen.

Yablonowitz
12-11-2007, 07:15 AM
Gore helped give the issue significant awareness in this country. It really wasn't talked about in the popular press like it is now.

Plus oil price hikes have helped.

When you have an economy based on businesses striving to improve their stock prices every quarter, you're just not going to get leaders with "vision" enough to make the kinds of changes required. This is why we have government. Supposedly. Lobbying and giving millions in PAC money to congressmen is a great way to make them think it's not worth making broad, significant, sweeping changes. But soon Australia's going to fall in line on Kyoto and only the US will be opposed. Things are going to get interesting.

jackstraw94086
12-11-2007, 08:00 AM
Last I heard China was still classified as a developing country by the Kyoto protocol and thus is exempt from most of the reduction standards.

If this is still the case then the kyoto protocol is outdated and complete bullshit. China is now a worse polluter than the US.

Yablonowitz
12-11-2007, 08:43 AM
Last I heard China was still classified as a developing country by the Kyoto protocol and thus is exempt from most of the reduction standards.

If this is still the case then the kyoto protocol is outdated and complete bullshit. China is now a worse polluter than the US.

I agree. I think the point isn't that it's going to be the answer. It's the start of a process.

Melanie.Dawn
12-11-2007, 08:49 AM
Everyone should watch 'Manufactured Landscapes'. It's pretty insane. It gave me a whole new perspective on what we are doing to the planet. And it's good because it doesn't tell you how to think or what you should think, it just shows you things.

http://www.zeitgeistfilms.com/film.php?directoryname=manufacturedlandscapes

J~$$$
12-11-2007, 08:51 AM
I like things.

full on idle
12-11-2007, 08:53 AM
As the world population soars towards eight billion, critical issues of survival face all of us. Living on a planet of finite resources means that human life can not be sustained indefinitely without careful thought and compassion coupled with political courage.

While the catastrophic impact of global warming is well documented, the U.S. has yet to rejoin the Kyoto Treaty. A Kucinich administration would immediately put the United States in the forefront of solving the global warming crisis by rejoining the Kyoto accord and implementing its recommendations.

"On the domestic front, I am an original co-sponsor in the House of Representatives of HR 1950, the Safe Climate Act of 2007. This is an act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and protect the climate introduced by Rep. Henry Waxman of California. As President I will continue to support the goals and targets of this important piece of legislation."

Oil is also an immense sustainability issue. With the peak of U.S. oil production some decades in the past and the world facing inevitable shortages in the near future, a continuation of our present energy policies is a prescription for unending conflicts. No candidate understands the precarious environmental perch man sits on more than Dennis Kucinich who has promised:


"As President, I will lead the way in protecting our oceans, rivers and rural environments. I will also lead in fighting for clean, affordable and accessible drinking water. I have worked hand-in-hand with the environmental movement on many battles, from thwarting a nuclear waste dump to boosting organics to demanding labels on genetically-engineered products. A clean environment, a sustainable economy, and an intact ozone layer are not luxuries, but necessities for our planet's future."

http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/a-sustainable-future/

J~$$$
12-11-2007, 08:55 AM
God bless you foi. Keep up the good word.

J~$$$
12-11-2007, 09:04 AM
There is a great interview with kucinich about green policy on salon.com

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/12/11/kucinich_qa/

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 09:08 AM
I think the idea is that only by getting the public firmly in favor of strong measures to curb global warming can governments put in place the tough and costly regulations on industry to make it happen.

Tom, my point is that you cannot regulate industry to destroy itself. The measures of the Kyoto protocol are an attempt to curtail the damage done by a world that runs on fuel sources that are inherently damaging and cannot be sustained, and also do nothing about China, India, etc. The only way to succeed is to focus our efforts on making environmentally friendlier forms of fuel NOT costly. This will take about 30 years or so though, probably. Nonetheless, it's the only way.

full on idle
12-11-2007, 09:13 AM
Ls7beTVd8ow

SFChrissy
12-11-2007, 02:35 PM
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2007/12/02/1137145-un-kicks-off-bali-climate-conference

Images (showing 1 of 4 photos)
A member of Green Peace activist sets up a giant thermometer as a symbol of global warming during their campaign in Nusa Dua, Bali, Indonesia, Sunday, Dec. 2, 2007. World leaders launch marathon negotiations Monday on how to fight global warming, which left unchecked could cause devastating sea level rises, send millions further into poverty and lead to the mass extinction of plants and animals. (AP Photo/Firdia Lisnawati)

A group of Indonesian cycle on the road during campaign for reduction of the emission of the greenhouse gas in Denpasar, Bali, Indonesia, Sunday, Dec. 2, 2007. Indonesia is to host a U.N. conference on climate change on Bali island to discuss the next stage in global efforts to control emissions from greenhouse gas blamed for global warming. (AP Photo/Firdia Lisnawati)

A worker inside a crane works near smoke spilling from a power plant smoke stack in Beijing, China, Monday, Dec. 3, 2007. Coal-burning power plants belch pollutants into the air in China, contributing to global warming that experts say has destroyed billions of dollars in crops. (AP Photo/Ng Han Guan)

Smoke spills from a power plant smoke stack near residential apartments in Beijing, China, Monday, Dec. 3, 2007. Coal-burning power plants belch pollutants into the air in China, contributing to global warming that experts say has destroyed billions of dollars in crops. (AP Photo/Ng Han Guan)
BALI — Faced with melting polar ice caps and worsening droughts, climate experts at a massive U.N. conference Monday urged quick action toward a new international pact stemming an increasingly destructive rise in world temperatures.

A key goal of the two-week conference, which opened with delegates from nearly 190 countries in attendance, will be to draw a skeptical United States into an agreement to cut emissions of carbon dioxide and other so-called greenhouse gases.

While the U.S. delegation declared it would not be a "roadblock" to a new agreement, Washington remains opposed to steps many other countries support, such as mandatory emissions cuts by rich nations and a target for limiting the rise in global temperatures.
The American position suffered a blow Monday when the new Australian prime minister signed papers to ratify the Kyoto Protocol climate pact. The move leaves the U.S. — the world's top emitter of greenhouse gases — as the sole industrial power not to have joined.

Conference leaders urged delegates to move quickly to combat climate change.

"The eyes of the world are upon you. There is a huge responsibility for Bali to deliver," said Yvo de Boer, the executive secretary of the conference. "The world now expects a quantum leap forward."

The conference kicked off amid growing global momentum for dramatic action to stop rising temperatures that scientists say could lead to swamping of coastal areas and islands by higher oceans, the wiping out of species, economic havoc and a spike in natural disasters such as storms, fires and droughts.

The Bali meeting will be the first major conference of its kind since former Vice President Al Gore — due to arrive next week — and a U.N. scientific council won the Nobel Peace Prize in October for their environmental work.

The immediate aim will be to launch negotiations toward a pact to replace the Kyoto Protocol when it expires in 2012, and set an agenda for the talks and a deadline. The U.N. says such an agreement should be concluded by 2009 in order to have a system in place in time.

Among the most contentious issues ahead will be whether emission cuts should be mandatory or voluntary. Also to be tackled will be to what extent up-and-coming economies like China and India will have to rein in their skyrocketing emissions, and how to help the world's poorest countries adapt to a worsening climate.

The American delegation was clearly on the defensive in Bali, presenting a statement detailing the ways the U.S. is fighting global warming without submitting to mandatory emissions targets.

"We're not here to be a roadblock," insisted Harlan L. Watson, the senior U.S. climate negotiator. "We're committed to a successful conclusion, and we're going to work very constructively to make that happen."

Confronted with the scientific reports of the past year, the Bush administration has signaled a willingness to play a larger role in the negotiations, and U.N. officials agree they must craft a post-Kyoto framework that Washington will go along with.

Australia abandoned the anti-Kyoto alliance with the U.S. on Monday, when new Prime Minister Kevin Rudd signed the paperwork to ratify the pact. Delegates in Bali erupted in applause when Australia's delegate, Howard Bamsey, told the plenary that Canberra was jumping on board.

Environmentalists at the conference cited what they saw as growing international momentum for tougher safeguards against global warming. Even critics of the Bush administration pointed out that many individual states, such as California, were on the forefront of cutting emissions.

"Despite the failure of the current president to take serious action on global warming, the political landscape in the United States is shifting dramatically in favor of mandatory limits on global warming pollution," said Alden Meyer of the Union of Concerned Scientists, citing upcoming action in the U.S. Congress.

Trying to fend off charges that America is not doing enough, Bush said last week a final Energy Department report showed U.S. emissions of carbon dioxide, a leading greenhouse gas, declined by 1.5 percent last year while the economy grew.

full on idle
12-11-2007, 02:38 PM
Awesome a link. What is it.

SFChrissy
12-11-2007, 03:02 PM
just an example of Bush's rediculous superiority kinda like yours and some of the other kooks on this board...

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 03:05 PM
Something interesting about what would happen if we did hop on Kyoto. Isn't it entirely possible that even more of our factories would just be sent to China and India? And by "entirely possible" I mean "unbelievably likely."

Yablonowitz
12-11-2007, 03:32 PM
Something interesting about what would happen if we did hop on Kyoto. Isn't it entirely possible that even more of our factories would just be sent to China and India? And by "entirely possible" I mean "unbelievably likely."


Edit: dumb response.

I think that if we get the US on board for Kyoto, there'll soon be a push for China and India to be part of it for this very reason.

SFChrissy
12-11-2007, 03:42 PM
that may be inevitable seeing how financial investment companies are working towards more investment opportunities in those countries and embrace that development.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 03:51 PM
yeah it's more or less inevitable anyway, but wouldn't it just be all too convenient of an excuse for American corporations to shift ALL the fucking jobs to the third-world? I'm surprised Bush doesn't go ahead and ratify the fucker. Then the corporations get to blame the liberals for forcing them to move the operation to China for making it too expensive here and they make record profits!

SFChrissy
12-11-2007, 03:54 PM
Edit: dumb response.

I think that if we get the US on board for Kyoto, there'll soon be a push for China and India to be part of it for this very reason.

BINGO!!! Change the push to enforce china/india to participate since they're pollutions are highest for developing countries.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 04:23 PM
You think China and India are going to sacrifice finally having an economy for the environment? Dude, China and India have way bigger issues to deal with then the fucking environment. They're not worried about polar bears. Most of them are so hungry they'd kill and eat a polar bear and prop up its carcass as a new house.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 04:24 PM
And fine, don't move the factories to China--move them to the Philipines. You miss the point. There will always be somewhere to move to where these kind of restrictions just aren't a priority. They'll BUILD the fucking place if they have to. Don't shy away from the truth just because it meant agreeing with me, Yabs.

full on idle
12-11-2007, 04:35 PM
Don't we have to start somewhere lil' Wang?

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 04:40 PM
Don't we have to start somewhere lil' Wang?

Huh? Don't you have to start somewhere what? Your sentence doesn't make much sense, big Valarie.

full on idle
12-11-2007, 04:46 PM
never mind I don't want to do this I have too much work to do.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 05:13 PM
If you meant "start somewhere" as in start agreeing with me, you just didn't see what Yabs had posted before he edited it.

Yablonowitz
12-11-2007, 06:46 PM
And fine, don't move the factories to China--move them to the Philipines. You miss the point. There will always be somewhere to move to where these kind of restrictions just aren't a priority. They'll BUILD the fucking place if they have to. Don't shy away from the truth just because it meant agreeing with me, Yabs.

It's painful for me the amount of issues I do agree with you on, trust me. But I'm just not quite a fatalistic and cynical as you. I think getting the Kyoto Protocol moving and then working with the UN to broaden restrictions to the developing countries is possible. The UN should also put more pressure on developed countries to develop energy sources and technlogy that are greener and share them with the developing world. I also crazily believe it can be done in a profitable way. I'm naive.

theburiedlife
12-11-2007, 06:51 PM
Last I heard China was still classified as a developing country by the Kyoto protocol and thus is exempt from most of the reduction standards.

If this is still the case then the kyoto protocol is outdated and complete bullshit. China is now a worse polluter than the US.

They don't exceed out carbon emission at the moment, but in a few years they will, and they make no effort to produce clean energy (aside from the Three Georges Dam), running primarily on coal.

Per Capita we quadruple the amount of carbon emission of every other country, including China. Sure, China has a problem and the Kyoto needs to work with China. Having this "Ill only go if you will" attitude is what is holding this country back.

Funny thing, people at the Bali summit were proposing to pay Indonesia to not cut its rain forests down in an effort to stop deforestation.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 06:52 PM
It's painful for me the amount of issues I do agree with you on, trust me. But I'm just not quite a fatalistic and cynical as you. I think getting the Kyoto Protocol moving and then working with the UN to broaden restrictions to the developing countries is possible. The UN should also put more pressure on developed countries to develop energy sources and technlogy that are greener and share them with the developing world. I also crazily believe it can be done in a profitable way. I'm naive.
No, you're not exactly wrong--it can be done and in a profitable way, but the solution is not to try to tell corporations "you can't do this." I don't say this just to wave an American flag or anything, but the fact is that capitalism IS natural law. Anything you do that drastically goes against capitalistic principles is a futile attempt to fight the way reality is, and humans as a function of the laws of capitalism will find a way to circumvent it. You can't tell people "find another way" when it's the only economically sound way to function at the moment. Brazil managed to become energy efficient because the government had the foresight to fund and develop other forms of energy--not because they made fossil fuels illegal. I know that's not what Kyoto protocols do, although after this discussion I'm thinking I ought to look up exactly what they do say so I can further flush out this argument. Point is putting a lid on a smoke stack is not a solution to this problem. We need massive changes, and they must derive from financial efficiency, not battle it.

Alchemy
12-11-2007, 06:53 PM
The UN should enforce the "lets go green" protocols with their army.







Oh wait...






The UN doesn't have an army.








I guess they should shut the fuck up. Shut. The. Fuck. Up.











I don't believe what I just said. I just wanted to make that reference.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 06:55 PM
They don't exceed out carbon emission at the moment, but in a few years they will, and they make no effort to produce clean energy (aside from the Three Georges Dam), running primarily on coal.

Per Capita we quadruple the amount of carbon emission of every other country, including China. Sure, China has a problem and the Kyoto needs to work with China. Having this "Ill only go if you will" attitude is what is holding this country back.

Funny thing, people at the Bali summit were proposing to pay Indonesia to not cut its rain forests down in an effort to stop deforestation.

If we quadruple them per capita, and they have four times as many people as we do, than both nations create an equal amount of carbon emissions. This has nothing to do with why I disagree with your position, but I just think it's funny.

theburiedlife
12-11-2007, 07:02 PM
If we quadruple them per capita, and they have four times as many people as we do, than both nations create an equal amount of carbon emissions. This has nothing to do with why I disagree with your position, but I just think it's funny.

We still slightly relase more Co2 into the atmosphere.

Heh, it's fucked in a way. But we need to be the first ones to step into the water.

thelastgreatman
12-11-2007, 07:15 PM
It wouldn't even make a dent.

theburiedlife
12-11-2007, 07:40 PM
Elaborate please, you don't believe the efforts to curb emissions will not have an effect on private industry or will do nothing to halt the acceleration of climate change?

jackstraw94086
12-12-2007, 08:03 AM
There's no rationalizing your way out of why China and India's (and a fucking host of other developing countries) exemptions fuck up the Kyoto protocol. There just isn't. If you want to push a dump truck of sand up your vag and spout some shit about how they should be able to "catch up" or that they'll have a crisis of conscience and follow our example anyway then go for it. It's not going to fucking happen.

Randy's actually right on this one. China's not going to shoot its economy in the foot if it doesn't have to. There are many studies (from countries other than our own as well) which claim the current Kyoto protocol would only delay global warming by a just few years. Write a new fucking Kyoto protocol. China's middle class is exploding. If that explosion is based on burning coal well then that's a fucking shame, but it's not the rest of the world's fault, and certainly not ours. Maybe their reduction standards don't have to be as strict as us greedy assholes who demand big cars and 2 new phones a year and flat screen TVs, etc.

In 10 years we'll just have China being the standout asshole who sign up and the planet isn't really any better off than it is right this moment.

Go to Asia and see what pollution really looks like.

bug on your lip
12-12-2007, 08:07 AM
currently China is trying to restrict automobile ownership

Yablonowitz
12-12-2007, 08:07 AM
Well, I'm certainly not one to say that China and India don't need to be brought in and required to curb their emmissions. China in particular has got to be a key focus. Maybe re-writing Kyoto is the best solution. I'm not necessarily for Kyoto, I'm for the objective of Kyoto which is to curb worldwide carbon emmissions.

thelastgreatman
12-12-2007, 08:10 AM
Does Kyoto have any provisions in it mandating resources to be allocated to the development of cleaner energy sources? I would imagine it would, but maybe not.

bug on your lip
12-12-2007, 08:11 AM
China doesn't want to enter the Machiavellian world of "Oil by force"...

they want to stay ambivalent...
and they have the dictatorship to enforce Green policies

like i said they are restricting car ownership and aggresively pursuing alt energy..
But this of course is in regards to Oil related pollution, hard metals are a diff story

I would say India is going to be a bigger problem in regards to Oil related pollution

jackstraw94086
12-12-2007, 08:21 AM
China doesn't want to enter the Machiavellian world of "Oil by force"...

they want to stay ambivalent...
and they have the dictatorship to enforce Green policies

like i said they are restricting car ownership and aggresively pursuing alt energy..
But this of course is in regards to Oil related pollution, hard metals are a diff story

I would say India is going to be a bigger problem in regards to Oil related pollution

I've got mixed feelings about the car restriction thing. It sounds to me like the government punishing the people instead of pressuring the car manufacturers, ultimately hurting both (although I'll bet the car restriction has mostly to do with imports).

But hey, it's their country. If they tolerate that sort of thing then thats fantastic for the rest of the world. History kind of goes against that kind of behavior though....

bug on your lip
12-12-2007, 08:23 AM
they have a weird mentality over there tho

people seem not to frown on Corruption

they strive to be the Corruptors

jackstraw94086
12-12-2007, 08:29 AM
I believe you, I just think that it may be because they've been poor and/or subjugated for so long. We'll see what happens when they get some wealth. People always want more once they get a taste. people are dicks. Skin color is irrelevant.

Mr.Nipples
12-12-2007, 08:38 AM
you people are smart!

SFChrissy
12-12-2007, 08:38 AM
And fine, don't move the factories to China--move them to the Philipines. You miss the point. There will always be somewhere to move to where these kind of restrictions just aren't a priority. They'll BUILD the fucking place if they have to. Don't shy away from the truth just because it meant agreeing with me, Yabs.

I'm butting in before I finish reading what you guys added after i left last night...but if the restrictions were global and didn't discriminate on a country's economy/or level of pollutants the american factories that would potentially move to china,india,manilla would have the financial support to build factories in those meeting the stringent ecological requirements. There is sooo much development in this and other countries that meeting LEED requirements should be mandatory but aren't...

SFChrissy
12-12-2007, 08:45 AM
The UN should also put more pressure on developed countries to develop energy sources and technlogy that are greener and share them with the developing world. I also crazily believe it can be done in a profitable way. I'm naive.

The company I work for just completed construction on a Jr College that meets 9 LEED requirements. The campus is fully electrically independent of PG&E utilizing on site solar panels and in turn generating revenue by selling power back to PG&E...it is being done and should be more widely practiced through out the world...spend now save later.

SFChrissy
12-12-2007, 08:51 AM
Funny thing, people at the Bali summit were proposing to pay Indonesia to not cut its rain forests down in an effort to stop deforestation.

Yeahhh it would be nice if Architects and Society with deep pockets would choose not to build a luxurious deck or benches with 6" planks of Ipe wood that's only obtainable from 2 mills deep in the Brazilian Forests...

bug on your lip
12-12-2007, 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Yablonowitz View Post
The UN should also put more pressure on developed countries to develop energy sources and technlogy that are greener and share them with the developing world. I also crazily believe it can be done in a profitable way. I'm naive.

#1 rule about Economics is:
you must provide an incentive to make someone change their behavior

J~$$$
12-12-2007, 08:52 AM
LEED membership is just another overhead cost. Most developing countries barely meet safety standards let alone green standards.

SFChrissy
12-12-2007, 08:54 AM
LEED membership is just another overhead cost. Most developing countries barely meet safety standards let alone green standards.

eliminate the membership and utilize the idea as a boilerplate template is what I'm implying.

TomAz
01-02-2008, 12:42 PM
This article in the paper yesterday is a really good example of healthy skepticism. The article does not dispute the reality of global warming or man's role in it. But it's really an interesting take about how the press and others misrepresent the facts about global warming to further their cause. just goes to show how much bullshit there is in the public debate.

link here. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/01/science/01tier.html?_r=1&ref=science&oref=slogin)

C&P here:

In 2008, a 100 Percent Chance of Alarm
By JOHN TIERNEY
Published: January 1, 2008


I’d like to wish you a happy New Year, but I’m afraid I have a different sort of prediction.

You’re in for very bad weather. In 2008, your television will bring you image after frightening image of natural havoc linked to global warming. You will be told that such bizarre weather must be a sign of dangerous climate change — and that these images are a mere preview of what’s in store unless we act quickly to cool the planet.

Unfortunately, I can’t be more specific. I don’t know if disaster will come by flood or drought, hurricane or blizzard, fire or ice. Nor do I have any idea how much the planet will warm this year or what that means for your local forecast. Long-term climate models cannot explain short-term weather.

But there’s bound to be some weird weather somewhere, and we will react like the sailors in the Book of Jonah. When a storm hit their ship, they didn’t ascribe it to a seasonal weather pattern. They quickly identified the cause (Jonah’s sinfulness) and agreed to an appropriate policy response (throw Jonah overboard).

Today’s interpreters of the weather are what social scientists call availability entrepreneurs: the activists, journalists and publicity-savvy scientists who selectively monitor the globe looking for newsworthy evidence of a new form of sinfulness, burning fossil fuels.

A year ago, British meteorologists made headlines predicting that the buildup of greenhouse gases would help make 2007 the hottest year on record. At year’s end, even though the British scientists reported the global temperature average was not a new record — it was actually lower than any year since 2001 — the BBC confidently proclaimed, “2007 Data Confirms Warming Trend.”

When the Arctic sea ice last year hit the lowest level ever recorded by satellites, it was big news and heralded as a sign that the whole planet was warming. When the Antarctic sea ice last year reached the highest level ever recorded by satellites, it was pretty much ignored. A large part of Antarctica has been cooling recently, but most coverage of that continent has focused on one small part that has warmed.

When Hurricane Katrina flooded New Orleans in 2005, it was supposed to be a harbinger of the stormier world predicted by some climate modelers. When the next two hurricane seasons were fairly calm — by some measures, last season in the Northern Hemisphere was the calmest in three decades — the availability entrepreneurs changed the subject. Droughts in California and Australia became the new harbingers of climate change (never mind that a warmer planet is projected to have more, not less, precipitation over all).

The most charitable excuse for this bias in weather divination is that the entrepreneurs are trying to offset another bias. The planet has indeed gotten warmer, and it is projected to keep warming because of greenhouse emissions, but this process is too slow to make much impact on the public.

When judging risks, we often go wrong by using what’s called the availability heuristic: we gauge a danger according to how many examples of it are readily available in our minds. Thus we overestimate the odds of dying in a terrorist attack or a plane crash because we’ve seen such dramatic deaths so often on television; we underestimate the risks of dying from a stroke because we don’t have so many vivid images readily available.

Slow warming doesn’t make for memorable images on television or in people’s minds, so activists, journalists and scientists have looked to hurricanes, wild fires and starving polar bears instead. They have used these images to start an “availability cascade,” a term coined by Timur Kuran, a professor of economics and law at the University of Southern California, and Cass R. Sunstein, a law professor at the University of Chicago.

The availability cascade is a self-perpetuating process: the more attention a danger gets, the more worried people become, leading to more news coverage and more fear. Once the images of Sept. 11 made terrorism seem a major threat, the press and the police lavished attention on potential new attacks and supposed plots. After Three Mile Island and “The China Syndrome,” minor malfunctions at nuclear power plants suddenly became newsworthy.

“Many people concerned about climate change,” Dr. Sunstein says, “want to create an availability cascade by fixing an incident in people’s minds. Hurricane Katrina is just an early example; there will be others. I don’t doubt that climate change is real and that it presents a serious threat, but there’s a danger that any ‘consensus’ on particular events or specific findings is, in part, a cascade.”

Once a cascade is under way, it becomes tough to sort out risks because experts become reluctant to dispute the popular wisdom, and are ignored if they do. Now that the melting Arctic has become the symbol of global warming, there’s not much interest in hearing other explanations of why the ice is melting — or why the globe’s other pole isn’t melting, too.

Global warming has an impact on both polar regions, but they’re also strongly influenced by regional weather patterns and ocean currents. Two studies by NASA and university scientists last year concluded that much of the recent melting of Arctic sea ice was related to a cyclical change in ocean currents and winds, but those studies got relatively little attention — and were certainly no match for the images of struggling polar bears so popular with availability entrepreneurs.

Roger A. Pielke Jr., a professor of environmental studies at the University of Colorado, recently noted the very different reception received last year by two conflicting papers on the link between hurricanes and global warming. He counted 79 news articles about a paper in the Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society, and only 3 news articles about one in a far more prestigious journal, Nature.

Guess which paper jibed with the theory — and image of Katrina — presented by Al Gore’s “Inconvenient Truth”?

It was, of course, the paper in the more obscure journal, which suggested that global warming is creating more hurricanes. The paper in Nature concluded that global warming has a minimal effect on hurricanes. It was published in December — by coincidence, the same week that Mr. Gore received his Nobel Peace Prize.

In his acceptance speech, Mr. Gore didn’t dwell on the complexities of the hurricane debate. Nor, in his roundup of the 2007 weather, did he mention how calm the hurricane season had been. Instead, he alluded somewhat mysteriously to “stronger storms in the Atlantic and Pacific,” and focused on other kinds of disasters, like “massive droughts” and “massive flooding.”

“In the last few months,” Mr. Gore said, “it has been harder and harder to misinterpret the signs that our world is spinning out of kilter.” But he was being too modest. Thanks to availability entrepreneurs like him, misinterpreting the weather is getting easier and easier.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-02-2008, 12:44 PM
yeah, I agree with the article..Too many people linked Hurrican Katrina to global warming when in reality it was just New Orleans time to get hit...

EDIT: That is not to say I don't think global warming isn't happening but that too many people are going to link everyday weather things to it..

J~$$$
01-02-2008, 12:49 PM
I have posted it before and Im posting it again to go along with TomAz article.


We're so self-important. So self-important. Everybody's going to save something now. "Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails." And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. What? Are these fucking people kidding me? Save the planet, we don't even know how to take care of ourselves yet. We haven't learned how to care for one another, we're gonna save the fucking planet?

I'm getting tired of that shit. Tired of that shit. I'm tired of fucking Earth Day, I'm tired of these self-righteous environmentalists, these white, bourgeois liberals who think the only thing wrong with this country is there aren't enough bicycle paths. People trying to make the world save for their Volvos. Besides, environmentalists don't give a shit about the planet. They don't care about the planet. Not in the abstract they don't. Not in the abstract they don't. You know what they're interested in? A clean place to live. Their own habitat. They're worried that some day in the future, they might be personally inconvenienced. Narrow, unenlightened self-interest doesn't impress me.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with the planet. Nothing wrong with the planet. The planet is fine. The PEOPLE are fucked. Difference. Difference. The planet is fine. Compared to the people, the planet is doing great. Been here four and a half billion years. Did you ever think about the arithmetic? The planet has been here four and a half billion years. We've been here, what, a hundred thousand? Maybe two hundred thousand? And we've only been engaged in heavy industry for a little over two hundred years. Two hundred years versus four and a half billion. And we have the CONCEIT to think that somehow we're a threat? That somehow we're gonna put in jeopardy this beautiful little blue-green ball that's just a-floatin' around the sun?

The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through all kinds of things worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles...hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worlwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages...And we think some plastic bags, and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet...the planet...the planet isn't going anywhere. WE ARE!

We're going away. Pack your shit, folks. We're going away. And we won't leave much of a trace, either. Thank God for that. Maybe a little styrofoam. Maybe. A little styrofoam. The planet'll be here and we'll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet'll shake us off like a bad case of fleas. A surface nuisance.

You wanna know how the planet's doing? Ask those people at Pompeii, who are frozen into position from volcanic ash, how the planet's doing. You wanna know if the planet's all right, ask those people in Mexico City or Armenia or a hundred other places buried under thousands of tons of earthquake rubble, if they feel like a threat to the planet this week. Or how about those people in Kilowaia, Hawaii, who built their homes right next to an active volcano, and then wonder why they have lava in the living room.

The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic...asshole.

So, the plastic is here, our job is done, we can be phased out now. And I think that's begun. Don't you think that's already started? I think, to be fair, the planet sees us as a mild threat. Something to be dealt with. And the planet can defend itself in an organized, collective way, the way a beehive or an ant colony can. A collective defense mechanism. The planet will think of something. What would you do if you were the planet? How would you defend yourself against this troublesome, pesky species? Let's see... Viruses. Viruses might be good. They seem vulnerable to viruses. And, uh...viruses are tricky, always mutating and forming new strains whenever a vaccine is developed. Perhaps, this first virus could be one that compromises the immune system of these creatures. Perhaps a human immunodeficiency virus, making them vulnerable to all sorts of other diseases and infections that might come along. And maybe it could be spread sexually, making them a little reluctant to engage in the act of reproduction.

Well, that's a poetic note. And it's a start. And I can dream, can't I? See I don't worry about the little things: bees, trees, whales, snails. I think we're part of a greater wisdom than we will ever understand. A higher order. Call it what you want. Know what I call it? The Big Electron. The Big Electron...whoooa. Whoooa. Whoooa. It doesn't punish, it doesn't reward, it doesn't judge at all. It just is. And so are we. For a little while.

~George Carlin

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-02-2008, 12:58 PM
I love George Carlin...

kreutz2112
01-02-2008, 01:06 PM
that George Carlin thing is funny, but complete bullshit.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-02-2008, 01:08 PM
he is right about the type of people though...Ever heard of Boulder,CO?
Very left college town that prides it self on being green, but everyone has a SUV...go figure...

I just try to do my part.

kreutz2112
01-02-2008, 01:15 PM
I agree about the people he talks about. The last 5 or 6 paragraphs are where he starts talking out of his ass.

TomAz
01-02-2008, 01:16 PM
I agree with the self-important activist bit. Nothing is more annoying than someone on a crusade. I blame it on the 60s.

kreutz2112
01-02-2008, 01:18 PM
yeah, what Tom said.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-02-2008, 01:20 PM
I agree with the self-important activist bit. Nothing is more annoying than someone on a crusade. I blame it on the 60s.

seriously that generation really needs to die off before we can really fix things....

canexplain
01-02-2008, 01:32 PM
I agree with the self-important activist bit. Nothing is more annoying than someone on a crusade. I blame it on the 60s.

tom blames everything on the 60's like he wasnt around then lol ... canx**

TomAz
01-02-2008, 01:34 PM
that's right ron, i turned 8 in 1970. the 60s were a big part of my life. ha.

actually the one thing more annoying than crusading activists is The Big Chill. what a bunch of smug, self-righteous, self-satisfied goons.

canexplain
01-02-2008, 01:37 PM
that's right ron, i turned 8 in 1970. the 60s were a big part of my life. ha.

actually the one thing more annoying than crusading activists is The Big Chill. what a bunch of smug, self-righteous, self-satisfied goons.

i will agree on the big chill statement but:
I blame everything on the later generations for being so wimpy and sheep just trying to make a buck at any cost and screw everyone else … the only thing most people care about is money …. No conscience, no guts, no original thinking …. grrrrrrr canx**

faxman75
01-02-2008, 01:38 PM
no, i am someone that believes it is an issue, but doesn't agree we should be scared into believing something or have it sold to us.


Christianity?

TomAz
01-02-2008, 01:38 PM
i will agree on the big chill statement but:
I blame everything on the later generations for being so wimpy and sheep just trying to make a buck at any cost and screw everyone else … the only thing most people care about is money …. No conscience, no guts, no original thinking …. grrrrrrr canx**

ok, I'll bite, just for the sake of the debate, ron.

what is 'wimpy' and 'sheep' about making rational decisions in one's own best economic interest? seems like common sense to me.

J~$$$
01-02-2008, 01:41 PM
i will agree on the big chill statement but:
I blame everything on the later generations for being so wimpy and sheep just trying to make a buck at any cost and screw everyone else … the only thing most people care about is money …. No conscience, no guts, no original thinking …. grrrrrrr canx**

hahahahaha you taught us well.

J~$$$
01-02-2008, 02:02 PM
Technology and innovation will set you free. Technological Singularity will be here soon and we will be saved.

canexplain
01-02-2008, 02:24 PM
ok, I'll bite, just for the sake of the debate, ron.

what is 'wimpy' and 'sheep' about making rational decisions in one's own best economic interest? seems like common sense to me.

well i guess that is not a fair statement .... i will never be rich probably, but i have not been broke or couldnt pay the bills in about 30 years so i never had to make those kind of decisions in most of your lifetimes ... and making rational decisions about ones funds is not bad if that is not the only thing you care about ... it seems that is the only reason most people do anything these days ... how can i make a buck ... canx**

Yablonowitz
01-02-2008, 03:02 PM
ok, I'll bite, just for the sake of the debate, ron.

what is 'wimpy' and 'sheep' about making rational decisions in one's own best economic interest? seems like common sense to me.

Onward rickshaw driver! Don't be late again!

TomAz
01-02-2008, 03:29 PM
i don't think i ever got the 'rickshaw' joke.

but for the record I've never ridden in a rickshaw. a tuk-tuk, though, yes.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-02-2008, 03:54 PM
Onward rickshaw driver! Don't be late again!

Those rickshaw drivers in India actually make a pretty good living doing that...the government in the Indian state of west bengal tried to ban it because it was inhumane and all the rickshaw drivers told them to suck it...

whynotsmile99
01-02-2008, 04:23 PM
i don't think i ever got the 'rickshaw' joke.

but for the record I've never ridden in a rickshaw. a tuk-tuk, though, yes.

the rickshaws in Malaysia were great. THey are all tricked out with better sound systems than I have in my car. Of course, they only play shitty American pop music, but I have good memories getting carried around southern Malaysia in one of these listening to Kelly Clarkson and Fergie at full blast


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/jdrubin1675/South%20East%20Asia%202007/DSC_01692.jpg


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/jdrubin1675/South%20East%20Asia%202007/DSC_01272.jpg

Wheres the beef?
01-02-2008, 11:24 PM
he is right about the type of people though...Ever heard of Boulder,CO?
Very left college town that prides it self on being green, but everyone has a SUV...go figure...

I just try to do my part.

Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanks.

TomAz
01-03-2008, 05:15 AM
the rickshaws in Malaysia were great. THey are all tricked out with better sound systems than I have in my car. Of course, they only play shitty American pop music, but I have good memories getting carried around southern Malaysia in one of these listening to Kelly Clarkson and Fergie at full blast


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/jdrubin1675/South%20East%20Asia%202007/DSC_01692.jpg


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a272/jdrubin1675/South%20East%20Asia%202007/DSC_01272.jpg

is that Malacca?

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
01-03-2008, 06:41 AM
anymore pics from Malaysia?