PDA

View Full Version : Despicable Debuts



roberto73
08-20-2007, 02:36 PM
As much as I hate to interrupt this board from its recent spate of truly thought-provoking discussions, here's an actual music-based thread:

I tracked down a copy of Sigur Ros' 1997 debut, Von, and gave it a listen last night. I'm being charitable when I call it virtually unlistenable. Really. It's the Metal Machine Music of ambient post-rock. But when you consider how monumentally great their second album is, it makes their debut downright confusing. I mean, based on the evidence supplied by Von, who knew what they were capable of?

Can you, astute board members, think of other debut albums that give no indication of a band's future greatness? Debut albums that, taken on their own, should relegate those responsible to a lifetime on the county fair circuit, even though the band would eventually go on to make amazing music? Which bands had to overcome their debut to make music of worth?

(Another potential choice: Radiohead's Pablo Honey. A couple good songs, yes, but there's nothing on there that indicates The Bends was just around the corner, or that OK Computer was waiting in the wings.)

Mr.Nipples
08-20-2007, 02:41 PM
i like metal machine music. anyways, alot of people dont like the first meat puppets LP.

Wheres the beef?
08-20-2007, 02:42 PM
I predict a bright future for this thread.

thinnerair
08-20-2007, 02:50 PM
the first Hum record was pretty f-ing bad.
Then they put out 2 incredible full lengths.

disgustipated
08-20-2007, 02:56 PM
the first Hum record was pretty f-ing bad.
Then they put out 2 incredible full lengths.

Absolutely...

you'd prefer is still in heavy rotation today.


you and I enjoy the same stuff.

breakjaw
08-20-2007, 03:00 PM
That's easy.This:
http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Albums/TWODB/cover2-small.gif
Songs (Time)
All songs written by David Bowie.

Uncle Arthur (2:07)
Love You Till Tuesday (3:09)
There Is A Happy Land (3:11)
Little Bombardier (3:24)
Sell Me A Coat (2:58)
Silly Boy Blue (3:48)
The London Boys (?)
Karma Man (?)
Rubber Band (?)
Let Me Sleep Beside You (?)
Come And Buy My Toys (2:07)
She's Got Medals (2:23)
In the Heat of the Morning (?)
When I Live My Dream (3:22)
Release details
Released 1970

PineapplePete
08-20-2007, 03:06 PM
Arcade Fire EP...as you said "virtually unlistenable"

breakjaw
08-20-2007, 03:14 PM
Also I wouldn't say "despicable",but I didn't see any indication from Hot Chip's debut ("Coming On Strong") that they would be as great as they are.

TomAz
08-20-2007, 03:16 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/74/SonicYouthEP.jpg/200px-SonicYouthEP.jpg

edit: oh and also

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drg200/g262/g26263yby0s.jpg


these two records are why I got into Sonic Youth years too late.

saxomophone
08-20-2007, 04:20 PM
Arcade Fire EP...as you said "virtually unlistenable"

Oh my word! Are you being serious?

breakjaw
08-20-2007, 04:22 PM
Totally agree w/Tom on SY.Really started getting good with Death Valley 69/Sister SST period.
Also how cool would it be if Bowie started working in some of his atrocious '60's songs into his live act?Like doing "Sell Me A Coat" as an encore?Or "Suffragette City" followed immediately with "Come and Buy My Toys"?

saxomophone
08-20-2007, 04:26 PM
http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/drg200/g262/g26263yby0s.jpg


Oh my word x2!
I haven't given it a proper listen yet, but you don't at least like Shaking Hell, Inhuman, World Looks Red, Kill Yr Idols???

breakjaw
08-20-2007, 04:28 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Allmusicselftitled.jpg

menikmati
08-20-2007, 04:32 PM
Arcade Fire EP unlistenable??? Please tell me you're joking.

TomAz
08-20-2007, 04:34 PM
Oh my word x2!
I haven't given it a proper listen yet, but you don't at least like Shaking Hell, Inhuman, World Looks Red, Kill Yr Idols???

eh, I posted the Confusion is Sex/Kill Yr Idols combined cover. But really Confusion is Sex was released separately, originally, and that's what I meant.

but, really, no, I don't go for that stuff. SY got better when they discovered songs.

mob roulette
08-20-2007, 04:41 PM
Oh Saaaaaaaaaaaandy, the aurora is rising behiiiiiiiiiiiiiiind us....

mountmccabe
08-20-2007, 05:27 PM
(Another potential choice: Radiohead's Pablo Honey. A couple good songs, yes, but there's nothing on there that indicates The Bends was just around the corner, or that OK Computer was waiting in the wings.)

I loved Pablo Honey. The Bends took me a bit to get into; OK Computer was immediate, though.


Underworld. Their first two albums (before Darren Emerson) were rather awful. Then came dubnobasswithyourheadman which was magical and awesome.


It's tough to find examples in this direction.

captncrzy
08-20-2007, 05:55 PM
Nice job, Roberto.

Dave Gahan's solo debut was just bloody awful. This next one is supposed to be more electronic but I guess we'll see.

Pete-I don't think you can count an EP as a debut. That's like comparing a 2nd year film school's first movie short to his first full-length corporate-financed screen debut.

PineapplePete
08-20-2007, 06:05 PM
Oh my word! Are you being serious?


Arcade Fire EP unlistenable??? Please tell me you're joking.

ya srsly

Alchemy
08-20-2007, 06:11 PM
I can listen to Von actually. I don't think that album is bad.

I do, however, think that Pablo Honey is unlistenable.

EDIT: Also, I think EP is better than Neon Bible.

miscorrections
08-20-2007, 06:15 PM
ep > neon bible for sure. once you sort of make the compensations for length and everything.

Jenniehoo
08-20-2007, 06:19 PM
Tori Amos' first album was a front woman for an 80's band called Y Kant Tori Read. The music was as horrible as I am gay.

PineapplePete
08-20-2007, 06:33 PM
ep > neon bible for sure. once you sort of make the compensations for length and everything.

i really enjoy the grandeur of Neon Bible, much unlike others (as far as i know)

ep < neon bible < funeral

Deviate_420
08-20-2007, 06:41 PM
Homework was a rather sub par release.

Alchemy
08-20-2007, 06:43 PM
The grandeur of Neon Bible? That's why I didn't like it, because that epic grandeur feeling from EP and Funeral were missing. The only epic songs of grandeur in Neon Bible were "No Cars Go" and "The Well & The Lighthouse", and well, EP called dibs on "No Cars Go" already. A lot of the songs on the new album were too linear for me. It seemed like they followed a simple track.

full on idle
08-20-2007, 06:59 PM
Tori Amos' first album was a front woman for an 80's band called Y Kant Tori Read. The music was as horrible as I am gay.

That's pretty gay.

KenMixtape
08-20-2007, 07:20 PM
tv on the radio - ok calculator

mountmccabe
08-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Tori Amos' first album was a front woman for an 80's band called Y Kant Tori Read. The music was as horrible as I am gay.

Ooh, good choice.

Mr.Nipples
08-20-2007, 07:29 PM
gza-words from the genius

i listened to it today after reading this thread and this album is dogshit compared to liquid swords...

ThomThom
08-20-2007, 07:54 PM
Arcade Fire EP...as you said "virtually unlistenable"

So their EP is unlistenable but you like Funeral? How that makes sense to anybody is completely beyond me...

i_like_cake530
08-20-2007, 08:12 PM
Arcade Fire EP...as you said "virtually unlistenable"

Pete, have you learned nothing? This one was a gimme. You're lucky Delta was banned....

i_like_cake530
08-20-2007, 08:14 PM
So their EP is unlistenable but you like Funeral? How that makes sense to anybody is completely beyond me...

ah but it doesn't...not even to Pete

PassiveTheory
08-20-2007, 08:19 PM
Both of Dredg's CDs pre-Catch Without Arms are fucking awful... Leitmotif and El Cielo are just damn well unlistenable...

Alchemy
08-20-2007, 08:28 PM
Not liking EP but liking Funeral is sort of like being a fan of OK Computer, but not being a fan of OK Computer. Nothing makes sense.

roberto73
08-20-2007, 08:57 PM
Alchemy, how do you feel about Blur's first album? I don't exactly think it's a failure, but when you look at it in comparison to Modern Life Is Rubbish and Parklife, I don't think there was anything there to indicate where they'd be going next. More than anything, it seems to be a product of that early 90's "baggy" scene, like they hadn't quite figured themselves out yet and just decided to fit in with the prevailing trend.

woogie846
08-20-2007, 09:16 PM
Homework was a rather sub par release.

I totally agree, I never thought Homework was that great, I enjoyed releases after than much, much more.

shakermaker113
08-20-2007, 09:51 PM
Homework was a rather sub par release.

I think you could get shot for saying that around here.

John Peel is My Co-pilot
08-20-2007, 11:00 PM
Alchemy, how do you feel about Blur's first album? I don't exactly think it's a failure, but when you look at it in comparison to Modern Life Is Rubbish and Parklife, I don't think there was anything there to indicate where they'd be going next. More than anything, it seems to be a product of that early 90's "baggy" scene, like they hadn't quite figured themselves out yet and just decided to fit in with the prevailing trend.

Any album with "Bang" and "There's No Other Way" on it could never be disappointing in my op.

For me, the best example of this phenomenon is Pulp. Who would have thought that "It" in 1983 - as twee and folky as it is at times - would signal the talent that is Jarvis?

PineapplePete
08-20-2007, 11:47 PM
Note** - This post is a response to all posts regarding my first post

I started off listening to Funeral, which i still think is the best of the three. Then I listened to Neon Bible, which I also enjoyed well enough. Finally i bought the EP and took a listen...but it just didn't feel right. Maybe it was because i listened to them out of order, but something didnt click with me like the other two did. i gave it a few thourough (sp?) listens, but i couldnt get with it.

the EP and Funeral are two different monsters. it is possible to dislike one and like the other...

although i do agree that Arcade were kinda playing safe with Neon Bible...i still like it better than the EP

bballarl
08-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Alchemy, how do you feel about Blur's first album? I don't exactly think it's a failure, but when you look at it in comparison to Modern Life Is Rubbish and Parklife, I don't think there was anything there to indicate where they'd be going next. More than anything, it seems to be a product of that early 90's "baggy" scene, like they hadn't quite figured themselves out yet and just decided to fit in with the prevailing trend.

While I'm not Alchemy, I have to chime in. That is not a bad record by any stretch. I think it's a record made by a band still in the process of finding themselves musically. They started to really establish their sound as a group with Modern Life, and that record is a logical stepping stone into the brilliant, classic, and sound-defining moment that is Parklife.

summerkid
08-21-2007, 12:46 AM
I love the Flaming Lips and all, but who knew when listening to their earlier stuff they'd end up making something as good as Soft Bulletin or Yoshimi.

Mr.Nipples
08-21-2007, 12:51 AM
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb49/amidrjekylloramimrhyde/daffyduck.jpg

rage patton
08-21-2007, 12:54 AM
And THAT is why I would never get rid of my Nipples.

roberto73
08-21-2007, 04:45 AM
Any album with "Bang" and "There's No Other Way" on it could never be disappointing in my op.

For me, the best example of this phenomenon is Pulp. Who would have thought that "It" in 1983 - as twee and folky as it is at times - would signal the talent that is Jarvis?


While I'm not Alchemy, I have to chime in. That is not a bad record by any stretch. I think it's a record made by a band still in the process of finding themselves musically. They started to really establish their sound as a group with Modern Life, and that record is a logical stepping stone into the brilliant, classic, and sound-defining moment that is Parklife.

I agree with both these assessments of Blur's first. I actually like the album quite a bit, but it's their one album that doesn't seem to "fit." From Modern Life on, every album seems like the work of a band with a paricular vision, while Leisure sounds, to me, a little anonymous.

And John Peel, good call on Pulp. My introduction to them was His 'n' Hers when it came out in '94, and it wasn't until recently that I backtracked from that album. Their earliest stuff is definitely a little dodgy.

Tylerdurden31
08-21-2007, 07:32 AM
I can't really listen to Opiate or Undertow after the last 3 LPs Tool put out. They're pretty much musical garbage.

disgustipated
08-21-2007, 08:15 AM
you're crazy.

musical garbage...pppfffft!


I knew it was a matter of time until Opiate came up in here. For the sake of this thread you could make a valid arguement for the EP, one would have never expected the '91 Tool to evolve into what we hear today. Undertow however, was them starting to tap into their musical greatness.

Alchemy
08-21-2007, 08:21 AM
Alchemy, how do you feel about Blur's first album? I don't exactly think it's a failure, but when you look at it in comparison to Modern Life Is Rubbish and Parklife, I don't think there was anything there to indicate where they'd be going next. More than anything, it seems to be a product of that early 90's "baggy" scene, like they hadn't quite figured themselves out yet and just decided to fit in with the prevailing trend.

Here I finally am. To me, that album had a feel of indication to Modern Life is Rubbish, or actually it's the other way around. I don't think that Leisure is at all a failure. With songs like "She's So High", "Bang", "Sing", "There's No Other Way" and "Fool", it's a gemstone of an album. Anyways, I listen to Modern Life is Rubbish as an album similar to Leisure, but with catchier melodies. It's true though, that listening to Leisure and skipping right over to Parklife, you'll be like, "How did this happen?" I think each album shows evolution to the next album, but not the album coming after the next. Except after The Great Escape, probably. They pretty much got down their sound by then.

I think the big Blur failure was Think Tank. Although, I don't consider it to be Blur if Graham Coxon is missing. That would be like calling Texas all of the United States. So I just called that Blur an untitled Damon Albarn project.

thinnerair
08-21-2007, 08:48 AM
you're crazy.

musical garbage...pppfffft!


I knew it was a matter of time until Opiate came up in here. For the sake of this thread you could make a valid arguement for the EP, one would have never expected the '91 Tool to evolve into what we hear today. Undertow however, was them starting to tap into their musical greatness.

'Undertow' is a pretty decent record. I have friends that cosider 'Opiate' at the top of their lists, followed by 'ÆNIMA' which is simply a brilliant record. A lot of their other stuff is 'whatever' to me. I thought 'Lateralus' was boring as hell with some spots here and there showcasing their technical proficiency.

bballarl
08-21-2007, 09:24 AM
I don't dig Undertow or Opiate either. I have tried, but neither do anything for me.

M Sparks
08-21-2007, 09:47 AM
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Y4QMNF03L._AA240_.jpg
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51XWTR3XBKL._AA240_.jpg
Except "Orgone Accumulator"
http://g-ec2.images-amazon.com/images/I/41A2AG0365L._AA240_.jpg

Yablonowitz
08-21-2007, 09:58 AM
While I wouldn't consider any of Spoon's albums to be remotely close to "bad," their earlier stuff certainly didn't sound like a band that was preparing to reach the heights of Girls Can Tell - Kill the Moonlight - Gimme Fiction and Ga Ga Ga Ga Ga.

TomAz
08-21-2007, 10:15 AM
http://www.connollyco.com/discography/paul_mccartney/mccartney_hi.jpg

TomAz
08-21-2007, 10:17 AM
http://wilcoworld.net/records/images/wilco_am.jpg

I actually like this CD quite a bit, but like yablo's comment on Spoon, nothing on AM really even hints at the greatness to come.

Tylerdurden31
08-21-2007, 10:24 AM
you're crazy.

musical garbage...pppfffft!


I knew it was a matter of time until Opiate came up in here. For the sake of this thread you could make a valid arguement for the EP, one would have never expected the '91 Tool to evolve into what we hear today. Undertow however, was them starting to tap into their musical greatness.

the song Opiate is great...there's a few songs here and there on Undertow that I like. I guess for me Danny Carey is the main draw. His skills grew exponentially when Ænima came out. That's my personal reasoning

downingthief
08-21-2007, 11:04 AM
Ok, I know Erik will hate me for this, but...

http://www.christianmusic.com/PHOTOS/bleach-nirvana.jpg

No, I don't think it was a "dispicable debut", but it is far inferior to what came after.

amyzzz
08-21-2007, 11:08 AM
I love both Blur's Leisure and Think Tank. I don't really listen to their other CD's much. Actually, I only own a few of them.

Toni Halliday (of Curve) had a really awful debut solo album, although I thoroughly enjoy all the Curve albums.

Deviate_420
08-21-2007, 11:21 AM
I can't really listen to Opiate or Undertow after the last 3 LPs Tool put out. They're pretty much musical garbage.

Undertow is a great album as is Opiate. But trying to compare them to Lateralus, Aenimia, or 10,000 days is like comparing a Ferrari to a Bentley.