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mob roulette
08-07-2007, 07:56 PM
He did it. Discuss if you'd like.

menikmati
08-07-2007, 07:57 PM
my dad turned down tickets to this game

ficklecycle
08-07-2007, 07:59 PM
who were they up against?

fober
08-07-2007, 08:00 PM
I hope he hits another 1,000 homeruns as a DH in the AL.

Suck it you haters.

Good Days Last
08-07-2007, 08:02 PM
who were they up against?

Washington Nationals. Regardless of BB's HR, it's been a pretty awesome game. HR's everywhere.

suprefan
08-07-2007, 08:17 PM
I think its great, but all the haters will come out on this for sure. There was a great article in the times about everyone in society being a hypocrite on all leveles when it came to getting an ''edge'' whether it be studying all night and taking pills to stay awake to having a red bull before you went and played a round of golf.

ficklecycle
08-07-2007, 08:21 PM
I'm proud of the man.

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 08:33 PM
I missed #'s 000-756 so I dont care. And baseball sucks.

fober
08-07-2007, 08:33 PM
If it wasn't for Barry and Mark and Sammy no one would be fooled into thinking baseball was worth watching.

You made your bed baseball, now sleep in it with your shrunken testicles.

ficklecycle
08-07-2007, 08:38 PM
I'll never forget Mark Vs. Sammy.

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 08:41 PM
If it wasn't for Barry and Mark and Sammy no one would be fooled into thinking baseball was worth watching.

You made your bed baseball, now sleep in it with your shrunken testicles.

I just had to laugh at this.

And seriously, not to get off topic, but what kind of self respecting congress holds hearings on steroids in baseball??

oh the "trying to avoid the corruption, lying to go to war, hurricane katrina, gay sex and drugs, and pedophilia scandals" kind of congress

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 08:42 PM
oh and i forgot...before epicycle gets here:



EPIC.

full on idle
08-07-2007, 08:49 PM
I have a ticket to this game in my wallet.
Long story, couldn't go at the last moment.
My coworker that gave me the ticket is going to kill me.

Mr.Nipples
08-07-2007, 08:52 PM
868 homeruns...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mattison_MOR/Baseball%20Cards/Collection/Other/z1980YamakatsuOh.jpg

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 09:00 PM
I'm watching the footage on KTVU of Barry running through the stands giving high fives and its probably the single moment he has given a shit about anyone besides himself.

That movie The Fan is more an indictment of Barry Bonds now more than ever. He's a selfish arrogant prick PERIOD


edit: note I am not making a judgement on his steroid use. I am just saying as a human being is a piece of shit.

nothingman00
08-07-2007, 09:04 PM
868 homeruns...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mattison_MOR/Baseball%20Cards/Collection/Other/z1980YamakatsuOh.jpg

Mr. Sadaharu Oh? Or something like that...

Anyway, it was a nice shot. I just hope everyone in the stands was ok. That was a clusterfuck out there. Still, cool to see history be made.

John Peel is My Co-pilot
08-07-2007, 09:06 PM
Who is this Bonds of whom you speak? The name seems kinda familiar. Does he party with Britney and Linsey? I only read People magazine...

ficklecycle
08-07-2007, 09:08 PM
GIANTS.

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 09:10 PM
Who is this Bonds of whom you speak? The name seems kinda familiar. Does he party with Britney and Linsey? I only read People magazine...

YES! YOU ARE BACK!

edit: apparently you never left. But I haven't seen a post from you for a while...so to me, you are back.

cbrl23
08-07-2007, 09:21 PM
I just had to laugh at this.

And seriously, not to get off topic, but what kind of self respecting congress holds hearings on steroids in baseball??

oh the "trying to avoid the corruption, lying to go to war, hurricane katrina, gay sex and drugs, and pedophilia scandals" kind of congress


The one that knows that pro sports make billions of dollars

John Peel is My Co-pilot
08-07-2007, 09:22 PM
YES! YOU ARE BACK!

edit: apparently you never left. But I haven't seen a post from you for a while...so to me, you are back.


errr...thanks (I think!)

Aw, crap, I don't owe you money do I?

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 09:25 PM
errr...thanks (I think!)

Aw, crap, I don't owe you money do I?

well that you mention it......my girlfriend really wants Vegoose tickets. And if you wanted, you could buy her two tickets and that might smooth things over.

John Peel is My Co-pilot
08-07-2007, 09:28 PM
well that you mention it......my girlfriend really wants Vegoose tickets. And if you wanted, you could buy her two tickets and that might smooth things over.


She didn't tell you? She's already going to Vegoose!

....oops, I've said too much, haven't I?

ficklecycle
08-07-2007, 09:33 PM
Hahaha.

Wheres the beef?
08-07-2007, 09:33 PM
errr...thanks (I think!)

Aw, crap, I don't owe you money do I?

I was looking for a clip from the Simpsons pretzel episode where the dialog between Homer and Fat Tony goes like this:

Fat Tony: "And now it is time for you to do us a favor"

Homer: "You mean the mob only did me a favor only to get a favor in return? I will say 'Good day to you, Sir!'"

Fat Tony is sad.

But this is all I could find:

CELFfOZct7g

Somewhat Damaged
08-07-2007, 09:59 PM
"No deal, McCutchen, that moon money is mine!"

I was on the elliptical machine at the gym, watching a WEC Wreckage fight on VS. When it went to commercial, I flipped over to ESPN right as the pitch was being made. The timing was so perfect that I almost didn't believe the "LIVE" in the upper left corner of the screen.

summerkid
08-07-2007, 11:34 PM
I'm watching the footage on KTVU of Barry running through the stands giving high fives and its probably the single moment he has given a shit about anyone besides himself.

That movie The Fan is more an indictment of Barry Bonds now more than ever. He's a selfish arrogant prick PERIOD


edit: note I am not making a judgement on his steroid use. I am just saying as a human being is a piece of shit.

why not? you can. I mean he did admit to using them. I dont' really care that he's a jerk there's been a lot of great ball players that are jerks. The fact that he's breaking the most hallowed record in sports and he did it illigitimately is what gets me.

summerkid
08-07-2007, 11:40 PM
I was at the game when he hit 755 (i'm a padres season ticket holder no way I'd pay to go to that game) I bood the shit out of this guy. What a disgrace. I was ashamed at my fellow padre fans who politely applauded him. He's a cheat and a fraud. A great player without the roids sure, but I doubt he hits 756 if he never uses them.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 12:09 AM
I was at the game when he hit 755 (i'm a padres season ticket holder no way I'd pay to go to that game) I bood the shit out of this guy. What a disgrace. I was ashamed at my fellow padre fans who politely applauded him. He's a cheat and a fraud. A great player without the roids sure, but I doubt he hits 756 if he never uses them.

disgrace? obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

Babe Ruth, the long time record holder, played in a league that did not allow blacks and Hispanics.

Henry Aaron, the previous record holder, played in an era when use of amphetamines were prevalent.

Bonds has played in an era when steroids were prevalent. But you must realize that pitchers were using roids too. And you must realize that Bonds has been walked more than any other player in HISTORY, by a HUGE margin. If pitchers actually pitched to him, Bonds would have nearly 1000 home runs. And for the last 12 seasons he has been playing his home games in San Francisco, a difficult place to hit home runs.

The only ones who are frauds are the hypocrites who insist on devaluing Bonds' achievements. Why isn't there an outcry about steroid use in the NFL, where its use is far more prevalent that in baseball? Why does no one mention that Bonds trains and prepares harder than any other player? How can you become a 7 time MVP (the next most by any player is 4) simply by taking steroids?

Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. There is no one even close.

summerkid
08-08-2007, 12:47 AM
disgrace? obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

Babe Ruth, the long time record holder, played in a league that did not allow blacks and Hispanics.

Henry Aaron, the previous record holder, played in an era when use of amphetamines were prevalent.

Bonds has played in an era when steroids were prevalent. But you must realize that pitchers were using roids too. And you must realize that Bonds has been walked more than any other player in HISTORY, by a HUGE margin. If pitchers actually pitched to him, Bonds would have nearly 1000 home runs. And for the last 12 seasons he has been playing his home games in San Francisco, a difficult place to hit home runs.

The only ones who are frauds are the hypocrites who insist on devaluing Bonds' achievements. Why isn't there an outcry about steroid use in the NFL, where its use is far more prevalent that in baseball? Why does no one mention that Bonds trains and prepares harder than any other player? How can you become a 7 time MVP (the next most by any player is 4) simply by taking steroids?

Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. There is no one even close.

so so many holes in this argument.

a. you are faulting Ruth for playing in another era? this is stupid.

b. Greenies and Steroids are two different things. I dont think there is necessarily a correlation with amphetimines and power numbers not to mention that they are more likely to help pitchers since they increase stamina so the argument doesnt really make sense here.

c. I have to laugh when you bring up his MVP numbers considering he won 4 of those while on steroids which brings me to this: its estimated that roughly 30% of MLB players were using steroids. This is just conjecture from people that were in and out of the locker rooms at the time. A number I've heard from more than one person that would have an idea. and I bet that number goes down when it comes to pitchers. so even if 30% of the pitchers were juicing he'd have an unfair advantage over 70% of the pitchers he'd be up against. And just because others were using it doesn't excuse his own actions. Bonds devalued his own achievement when he decided to juice and he continues to devalue the numbers of legends like Henry Aaron, Willie Mays, Frank Robinson, and Harmon Killibrew. At the same time he is also devaluing the greatness of players of his own generation like Ken Griffey Jr and Frank Thomas. Guys who didn't use steroids.

d. there isn't an outcry about steroids in football because it isn't so much a game of numbers like baseball is. Those numbers are sacred. 300 wins. 500 hrs. 3,000 hits. And since it is a game of numbers we can clearly see how much steroids effect the level of play, its much more difficult to do that with football.

nothingman00
08-08-2007, 12:52 AM
disgrace? obviously you have no idea what you are talking about.

Babe Ruth, the long time record holder, played in a league that did not allow blacks and Hispanics.

Henry Aaron, the previous record holder, played in an era when use of amphetamines were prevalent.

Bonds has played in an era when steroids were prevalent. But you must realize that pitchers were using roids too. And you must realize that Bonds has been walked more than any other player in HISTORY, by a HUGE margin. If pitchers actually pitched to him, Bonds would have nearly 1000 home runs. And for the last 12 seasons he has been playing his home games in San Francisco, a difficult place to hit home runs.

The only ones who are frauds are the hypocrites who insist on devaluing Bonds' achievements. Why isn't there an outcry about steroid use in the NFL, where its use is far more prevalent that in baseball? Why does no one mention that Bonds trains and prepares harder than any other player? How can you become a 7 time MVP (the next most by any player is 4) simply by taking steroids?

Bonds is the greatest hitter of all time. There is no one even close.

Someone has been reading his espn.com "who's the greatest slugger of all time" debate. I read it too and it made a very compelling case. As big of a douche as Bonds is, he's one of the greatest baseball players of all time. I'd say his godfather, Mr. Willie Mays is the greatest player of all time, but Bonds may very well; be the greatest slugger of all time. Douche or not, the dude can fucking hit a baseball.

summerkid
08-08-2007, 12:55 AM
I really don't care that Barry Bonds is a jerk or not. It does not concern me. What does concern me is that his numbers are tainted. Certainly a great player even without the roids. I mean look at his numbers pre 2001, they are great. But I would not put him ahead of Ken Griffey Jr. now talk about amazing ballplayers I think people forget how great he was and that if his career wasn't riddled by injuries and didn't have freaks like Bonds overshadowing his accomplishments. I don't think there would be any doubt that he was the greatest player ever.

marooko
08-08-2007, 06:49 AM
I think its great, but all the haters will come out on this for sure. There was a great article in the times about everyone in society being a hypocrite on all leveles when it came to getting an ''edge'' whether it be studying all night and taking pills to stay awake to having a red bull before you went and played a round of golf.

all of which are legal. great argument.

this guy is awesome.....

"I don't have any thoughts about Barry. I don't even know how to spell his name," - Hank Aaron.


oh and my own thoughts....barry bonds might be a dick but yeah he is a great baseball player. pretty much always has been. in my opinion his record will be tainted, if i go back to cooperstown im definitely gonna talk crap about seeing his record. so yeah, good ball player, bad person?, for sure. doesnt matter how he acts, what gets me is that of all the people that show evidence of him using, and all that people that admit to it, he still says he hasnt and does not. what a fucking joke.

TomAz
08-08-2007, 07:07 AM
Barry Bonds is a douchebag. I hope he dies of heartbreak and shame.

PassiveTheory
08-08-2007, 08:10 AM
Hank Aaron's still the home run king in my book.

BlueDevil50
08-08-2007, 08:18 AM
Barry Bonds is a douchebag. I hope he dies of heartbreak and shame.

for once im going to agree with tom....pure brilliance


barrys an asshole cheater that doesnt deserve to go down in record books...fuck him and his size 9 head

J~$$$
08-08-2007, 08:31 AM
I want to complain.

luckyface
08-08-2007, 08:34 AM
It has been much more fun to pay attention to sports by not giving a flying fuck about this and what it means to baseball/sports. In the grand scheme of things, does it make any difference whatsoever? This doesn't mean dick. Every era is tainted by something.

And if you really care about this record enough to where you would lose sleep over it, it won't last for long if A-Rod keeps going at the pace he is on right now.

disgustipated
08-08-2007, 08:45 AM
BASEBALL

SUX

Yablonowitz
08-08-2007, 09:10 AM
Anyone who defends Bonds "accomplishment" right now is suffering from denial. The historical differences in eras don't favor Bonds in this arena. He's playing at a time when there are probably 3 or 4 too many baseball teams in general. The overall pitching talent has thinned out and way too many barely mediocre pitchers are in the game now.

Lastly, and one area I just got acquainted with that adds an even darker cloud on his record, is this article (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797), which makes for a compelling case.

And this is coming from a die hard Giants fan. People believe what they want to believe, a lot of times. But really - his HR total is so padded as to be completely irrelevant when compared to Aaron and Babe Ruth's.

TomAz
08-08-2007, 09:15 AM
I don't understand why people are posting "Baseball Sux" and "I don't give a fuck" in this thread. If you don't like baseball, or don't care, why bother posting it? Loudly proclaiming indifference would seem to be inherently contradictory.

TomAz
08-08-2007, 09:15 AM
Anyone who defends Bonds "accomplishment" right now is suffering from denial. The historical differences in eras don't favor Bonds in this arena. He's playing at a time when there are probably 3 or 4 too many baseball teams in general. The overall pitching talent has thinned out and way too many barely mediocre pitchers are in the game now.

Lastly, and one area I just got acquainted with that adds an even darker cloud on his record, is this article (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797), which makes for a compelling case.

And this is coming from a die hard Giants fan. People believe what they want to believe, a lot of times. But really - his HR total is so padded as to be completely irrelevant when compared to Aaron and Babe Ruth's.


say what you want about Yablo, and I know you do, but at least he's an honest man.

JustSteve
08-08-2007, 09:21 AM
most of the time a player's stats decrease with age. early in barry's career he was hitting a home run about every 20 at bats...from 2000 through '07, while in his mid-to-late 30's to early 40's, he has hit a homerun about every 8 at bats. numbers don't lie and these numbers are quite suspicious.

a-rod will be breaking the record in 6 years or so anyways, assuming he hits around 40 hr's a season.

disgustipated
08-08-2007, 09:27 AM
I don't understand why people are posting "Baseball Sux" and "I don't give a fuck" in this thread. If you don't like baseball, or don't care, why bother posting it? Loudly proclaiming indifference would seem to be inherently contradictory.



Discuss if you'd like.

I dont like baseball or Bonds that's why...

fober
08-08-2007, 10:12 AM
Hank Aaron's still the home run king in my book.

Well, technically he's still the king in everyone's book.

They haven't updated them yet.

marooko
08-08-2007, 11:04 AM
Well, technically he's still the king in everyone's book.

They haven't updated them yet.

i was just gonna read before i went to lunch but this made me post. so hear it goes.


hahahahahahahahhahahah. thats pretty good.

PotVsKtl
08-08-2007, 11:13 AM
Idiot.

pewter14
08-08-2007, 11:52 AM
Anyone who defends Bonds "accomplishment" right now is suffering from denial. The historical differences in eras don't favor Bonds in this arena. He's playing at a time when there are probably 3 or 4 too many baseball teams in general. The overall pitching talent has thinned out and way too many barely mediocre pitchers are in the game now.

Lastly, and one area I just got acquainted with that adds an even darker cloud on his record, is this article (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003621797), which makes for a compelling case.

And this is coming from a die hard Giants fan. People believe what they want to believe, a lot of times. But really - his HR total is so padded as to be completely irrelevant when compared to Aaron and Babe Ruth's.

I'll preface this with saying I'm neither a Bonds sympathizer nor a Bonds hater ... I'm just a huge fan of the game of baseball ....

The problem here is people revere this record so much, but it's just plain idiotic to compare numbers of ball players of different eras ... yet, baseball is so stats driven, everyone has to have one be all end all answer, but, it's near impossible to compare players accurately based solely upon ink on paper, which is the only way we can compare these guys.

Yes, Ruth played in a time where they did not allow blacks, I think this was an unfair advantage for him ... it wasn't his fault, it was just how the game was played then ... the ball parks were also massive, which hurt him. Honestly, he gets my vote for most dominating player ... the numbers he put up compared to anyone else in that era ... they are flat out disgusting ... he was WAY beyond his time, more then anyone else ever has based on the numbers.

Over time, there have been so many changes to the game, new technologies, different rules, different ball parks, different ways to maintain health (both legal and illegal), the fact we now have specialized pitchers with specific roles (which I would say works agaisnt the modern player) ... the problem is, everyone feels this damn need to put someone at #1 ... but comparing Bonds to Aaron to Ruth just isn't an apples to apples (to apples) comparison ... it isn't ... deal with it.

Why can't we just all agree that guys like Mays, Ruth, Aaron, Ruth, Bonds, Frank Robinson ... they were all just great freakin' hitters ...

Poor Ted Williams spent 3 years of his prime in the war ... who knows how that affected his career ... maybe he would have been the HR king .... but, whatever, he's still one of the best hitters ever to walk the planet, and no one would argue that ... and the same words should be used for Barry Lamar Bonds ... was he the best? Don't know ... but, I don't need a best ...

Yablonowitz
08-08-2007, 11:59 AM
Well, yeah. My favorite Giants team was the '93 Giants when they won 103 games and still lost the pennant to the Braves. Bonds was much leaner but far more of an overall asset to the team at the time - his base stealing and outfielding were more impressive.


That elbow guard article is pretty interesting though.

Mr. Dylanja
08-08-2007, 12:09 PM
A-Rod is gonna pass him.

I'm just glad he didn't hit it @ Chase Feild.

GO D-BACKS!!!

Look out NL West, we locked up Byrnes and brought up Upton (almost hit for the cycle last night) !!

marooko
08-08-2007, 12:13 PM
Idiot.

you know you love me pot. thats why you feel compelled to post. DIC!

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 02:04 PM
Anyone who defends Bonds "accomplishment" right now is suffering from denial. The historical differences in eras don't favor Bonds in this arena. He's playing at a time when there are probably 3 or 4 too many baseball teams in general. The overall pitching talent has thinned out and way too many barely mediocre pitchers are in the game now.


You are making the "dilution" argument, that somehow because there are so many more teams today the talent level suffers.

The argument pretty much fails. Every single MLB player today is better than every single player from Ruth's era. Many, many, many more people play baseball today than back then. They practice harder. The pitchers pitch far better. The methods of training are far superior. You cannot compare today's talent with the Ruth era.

If you think pitchers today are mediocre, then I wonder what you would think of the Ruth era pitchers if you actually saw them play? They were basically amateurs.

marooko
08-08-2007, 02:15 PM
You are making the "dilution" argument, that somehow because there are so many more teams today the talent level suffers.

The argument pretty much fails. Every single MLB player today is better than every single player from Ruth's era. Many, many, many more people play baseball today than back then. They practice harder. The pitchers pitch far better. The methods of training are far superior. You cannot compare today's talent with the Ruth era.

If you think pitchers today are mediocre, then I wonder what you would think of the Ruth era pitchers if you actually saw them play? They were basically amateurs.

roid head just broke a record "YESTERDAY" which stood for 20+ years. dont make me look up more records that still stand. ill leave the rest for someone else.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 02:28 PM
roid head just broke a record "YESTERDAY" which stood for 20+ years. dont make me look up more records that still stand. ill leave the rest for someone else.

what the hell are you talking about? you make absolutely no sense.

TomAz
08-08-2007, 02:29 PM
yeah I'm not seeing the logic there either.

summerkid
08-08-2007, 02:37 PM
I think he's saying that crazzz is waisting his time talking about Ruth because Bond's broke Aaron's record not Ruth's.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 02:46 PM
I think he's saying that crazzz is waisting his time talking about Ruth because Bond's broke Aaron's record not Ruth's.

i was comparing the Bonds era to the Ruth era because the post I replied to was about comparing eras. so his comment still makes no sense.

Mr.Nipples
08-08-2007, 02:50 PM
barry bonds is an assclown...and i agree yablo, the 93' giants were hard...

mob roulette
08-08-2007, 03:15 PM
That's a great article, Yablo. I still love baseball, but that's a great article.

marooko
08-08-2007, 04:12 PM
what the hell are you talking about? you make absolutely no sense.

you just dont get it.


yeah I'm not seeing the logic there either.

its coming.


I think he's saying that crazzz is waisting his time talking about Ruth because Bond's broke Aaron's record not Ruth's.

thats not it.


i was comparing the Bonds era to the Ruth era because the post I replied to was about comparing eras. so his comment still makes no sense.

here it is.

the response was towards what i highlighted in red.

in short, if all the players now where so much better all records would be current. which they are not. not an amazing argument just a simple one. by saying ill leave the rest up to someone else i was insinuating that there were other problems with what you said. get it?

edit: im not saying that they arent better, i just dont think every single player is better to any amazing extent.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 04:41 PM
the response was towards what i highlighted in red.

in short, if all the players now where so much better all records would be current. which they are not. not an amazing argument just a simple one. by saying ill leave the rest up to someone else i was insinuating that there were other problems with what you said. get it?


ya, i get it. it is simple. but not your argument. your mind.

marooko
08-08-2007, 05:06 PM
want me to feed you another line?

if you were half as smart as you think you are you could have come at me with something better than that. i was gonna change my comment a little bit but ill leave it up. read it again and try again.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 05:09 PM
want me to feed you another line?

if you were half as smart as you think you are you could have come at me with something better than that. i was gonna change my comment a little bit but ill leave it up. read it again and try again.

marooko, you are an idiot.

you are arguing that a 100 year old record that still stands today means that todays players cannot be better than players from 100 years ago. that's the stupidest argument i have ever heard. i did not try to come up with anything because your argument doesn't even deserve a response, you simple minded moron.

crazzz2007
08-08-2007, 05:21 PM
Maybe an example would help you understand, since your logical reasoning skills are obviously subpar.

Johnny Vander Meer pitched two [2] consecutive no hitters in 1938. This record will never be broken. Johnny Vander Meer's lifetime record was 119-121. He didn't even win half the games he pitched. He was a mediocre player.

By your reasoning, he must be better than everyone pitching today. How can you not fathom the concept that records set in an entirely different era cannot be an accurate barometer to compare the quality of the players from that era to the quality of the players from this era? You don't need to answer the question. I know it's hard to admit to yourself that you are an idiot.

joppy-slow
08-08-2007, 05:38 PM
barry bonds will never have a candy bar named after him, maybe an energy drink.. babe ruth is still the best baseball player.. ever..

some quick facts:

Babe Ruth is the only player ever to hit three home runs in a World Series game on two separate occasions-Game 4 of the 1926 Series and Game 4 of the 1928 Series.

Ruth's career .690 slugging percentage is the highest total in the history of Major League Baseball. (Slugging percentage is calculated by dividing total bases by at-bats.)

Babe Ruth holds the record for the longest complete game victory in World Series history. In 1916, as a member of the Boston Red Sox, Ruth pitched 14 innings to defeat the Brooklyn Robins. He only allowed one run in the first inning, then settled down to shut out the Robins for the next 13 innings for the 2-1 win. The Red Sox would go on to win the Series in 5 games.

I would love to see Barry Bonds pitch and bat in the same game..

too bad his record is only going to last for about 6 years when A-Rod breaks it.

joppy-slow
08-08-2007, 05:45 PM
Babe Ruth, the long time record holder, played in a league that did not allow blacks and Hispanics.

oh my fuck.. what a dumb argument...

That's like saying "Italy's world cup squad that won the 2006 world cup is not as good as Brazil's 2002 team because they didn't have any black players on their team.. spare me a fucking dime..

Yablonowitz
08-08-2007, 06:32 PM
You are making the "dilution" argument, that somehow because there are so many more teams today the talent level suffers.

The argument pretty much fails. Every single MLB player today is better than every single player from Ruth's era. Many, many, many more people play baseball today than back then. They practice harder. The pitchers pitch far better. The methods of training are far superior. You cannot compare today's talent with the Ruth era.

If you think pitchers today are mediocre, then I wonder what you would think of the Ruth era pitchers if you actually saw them play? They were basically amateurs.

It's an impossible task to compare eras, I will grant you that. But I think you can start to get at it when you compare the hitting and pitching stats of the eras. Did pitchers or hitters have the overall advantage in Ruth's era? What were the averages compared to the ERAs like? Were there more runs scored, more hits, more HRs, doubles, etc? I don't know, actually. That would probably be the wisest way of going about determining how impressive a statistic is in its era. If that makes sense.

And it was Adamnikyo who showed me the elbow armor article, so I gots to give a shout out to him. That is a much more difficult piece of information to argue with than the steroids even, IMO.

mob roulette
08-08-2007, 06:58 PM
757. So what does he do now anyway? Anybody think he's gonna retire? Or take that easy AL money? Could be the National League too, I guess, but I doubt it.

summerkid
08-08-2007, 07:39 PM
It's an impossible task to compare eras, I will grant you that. But I think you can start to get at it when you compare the hitting and pitching stats of the eras. Did pitchers or hitters have the overall advantage in Ruth's era? What were the averages compared to the ERAs like? Were there more runs scored, more hits, more HRs, doubles, etc? I don't know, actually. That would probably be the wisest way of going about determining how impressive a statistic is in its era. If that makes sense.

And it was Adamnikyo who showed me the elbow armor article, so I gots to give a shout out to him. That is a much more difficult piece of information to argue with than the steroids even, IMO.

If you look at the numbers before Ruth came onto the scene they are an absolute joke from a hitters standpoint. i think the record for career home runs was in the 150 something or around there.

Hannahrain
08-08-2007, 11:24 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-bonds-ball&prov=ap&type=lgns

marooko
08-09-2007, 06:35 AM
marooko, you are an idiot.

you are arguing that a 100 year old record that still stands today means that todays players cannot be better than players from 100 years ago. that's the stupidest argument i have ever heard. i did not try to come up with anything because your argument doesn't even deserve a response, you simple minded moron.

thats better.


Maybe an example would help you understand, since your logical reasoning skills are obviously subpar.

Johnny Vander Meer pitched two [2] consecutive no hitters in 1938. This record will never be broken. Johnny Vander Meer's lifetime record was 119-121. He didn't even win half the games he pitched. He was a mediocre player.

By your reasoning, he must be better than everyone pitching today. How can you not fathom the concept that records set in an entirely different era cannot be an accurate barometer to compare the quality of the players from that era to the quality of the players from this era? You don't need to answer the question. I know it's hard to admit to yourself that you are an idiot.

even came back for more.

yeah, not sure what i was thinking when i was writing, after i was done and thought about it a sec. i was like, well that was pretty dumb. if they were all progressing in their respective skills at the same time they would essentially cancel each other out and it would be just as tough to set or break a record. i was thinking of it in the sense that everyone excelling in their respective position equally to achieve this would be pretty rare. i could have worded it better, but...coulda woulda shoulda, so whatever.

TomAz
08-09-2007, 06:53 AM
oh my fuck.. what a dumb argument...

That's like saying "Italy's world cup squad that won the 2006 world cup is not as good as Brazil's 2002 team because they didn't have any black players on their team.. spare me a fucking dime..

Your analogy is flawed. It's not a race matter per se, it's a statistical argument that arises from eliminating groups of people from the pool of potential players. The more you eliminate the weaker the over all talent becomes. For example: if you have a pool of one million potential athletes the odds of finding a "one in a million" talent are about 50/50. If the pool is 2 million the odds are more like 75/25.

Yablonowitz
08-09-2007, 06:55 AM
757. So what does he do now anyway? Anybody think he's gonna retire? Or take that easy AL money? Could be the National League too, I guess, but I doubt it.

I don't really care. I just hope he gets off my team so we can start focusing on other matters, like winning, again.

I'd also like to see Brian Sabean go too. He's extended this circus and did all he could to diminish the team's chances for winning the NL West or even being a viable candidate.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 07:17 AM
barry bonds will never have a candy bar named after him, maybe an energy drink.. babe ruth is still the best baseball player.. ever..

some quick facts:

Babe Ruth is the only player ever to hit three home runs in a World Series game on two separate occasions-Game 4 of the 1926 Series and Game 4 of the 1928 Series.

Ruth's career .690 slugging percentage is the highest total in the history of Major League Baseball. (Slugging percentage is calculated by dividing total bases by at-bats.)

Babe Ruth holds the record for the longest complete game victory in World Series history. In 1916, as a member of the Boston Red Sox, Ruth pitched 14 innings to defeat the Brooklyn Robins. He only allowed one run in the first inning, then settled down to shut out the Robins for the next 13 innings for the 2-1 win. The Red Sox would go on to win the Series in 5 games.

I would love to see Barry Bonds pitch and bat in the same game..

too bad his record is only going to last for about 6 years when A-Rod breaks it.

ya ya, whatever. ruth was playing against amateurs. also he never played against any blacks or Hispanics. this obviously was not his fault, but it takes away from his accomplishments.

marooko
08-09-2007, 07:20 AM
least he didnt cheat.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 07:20 AM
oh my fuck.. what a dumb argument...

That's like saying "Italy's world cup squad that won the 2006 world cup is not as good as Brazil's 2002 team because they didn't have any black players on their team.. spare me a fucking dime..

dumb argument? please explain yourself. i'm not blaming ruth. he had no say in the matter. the fact remains that ruth did not have to compete against some of the best players in THIS COUNTRY because they were NOT ALLOWED to play.

Your analogy to the Italian soccer team is the worst analogy ever.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 07:24 AM
least he didnt cheat.

true. but he never used his huge influence to do anything about the issue of race.

marooko
08-09-2007, 02:07 PM
they should revoke his record for that.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 02:11 PM
they should revoke his record for that.

what record?

summerkid
08-09-2007, 02:24 PM
dumb argument? please explain yourself. i'm not blaming ruth. he had no say in the matter. the fact remains that ruth did not have to compete against some of the best players in THIS COUNTRY because they were NOT ALLOWED to play.

Your analogy to the Italian soccer team is the worst analogy ever.

I can't believe we are arguing about this. It seems like your deflecting criticism of Bonds and putting it on Ruth. Ruth didn't cheat the game he played against who he was allowed to play against. It does not take away from what he did. Compare his numbers to other players in his time and they are just sick. Bonds has no respect for the game and as a fan of the game i have no respect for him.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 02:44 PM
I can't believe we are arguing about this. It seems like your deflecting criticism of Bonds and putting it on Ruth. Ruth didn't cheat the game he played against who he was allowed to play against. It does not take away from what he did. Compare his numbers to other players in his time and they are just sick. Bonds has no respect for the game and as a fan of the game i have no respect for him.

i'm not criticizing ruth at all. i'm criticizing those who give ruth god-like status.

the fact is that the game of baseball was pretty much in its infancy during the ruth era. that he was so much better than every one else in his era could mean he was the best player ever. but it probably means that most players during that time just weren't very good.

add to this the fact that blacks and Hispanics were not allowed to compete against ruth.

how can you simply brush off these arguments?

TomAz
08-09-2007, 02:47 PM
I can't believe we are arguing about this. It seems like your deflecting criticism of Bonds and putting it on Ruth. Ruth didn't cheat the game he played against who he was allowed to play against. It does not take away from what he did. Compare his numbers to other players in his time and they are just sick. Bonds has no respect for the game and as a fan of the game i have no respect for him.

amen brother


i'm not criticizing ruth at all. i'm criticizing those who give ruth god-like status.

the fact is that the game of baseball was pretty much in its infancy during the ruth era. that he was so much better than every one else in his era could mean he was the best player ever. but it probably means that most players during that time just weren't very good.

add to this the fact that blacks and Hispanics were not allowed to compete against ruth.

how can you simply brush off these arguments?

because the points you raise are not willful acts that Ruth did. they are the circumstances of the era in which he played. That's what makes Ruth different from Bonds. Steroid use is a willful act.

J~$$$
08-09-2007, 02:49 PM
I hope the crazy Nipponese guy breaks the record in a few years.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 02:49 PM
because the points you raise are not willful acts that Ruth did. they are the circumstances of the era in which he played. That's what makes Ruth different from Bonds. Steroid use is a willful act.

but i'm trying to get at who was the better player. not who was a better person or more ethical.

SFChrissy
08-09-2007, 02:52 PM
I missed #'s 000-756 so I dont care. And baseball sucks.


Totally!!!

TomAz
08-09-2007, 02:53 PM
but i'm trying to get at who was the better player. not who was a better person or more ethical.

half the majors today is better than Ruth ever was. eh maybe not half. But a fair proportion.

but I thought the original question was how do we feel about the Bonds record. and that you brought up the Ruth stuff as a point, to say that Ruth's record was itself not without its own kind of taint. To which my willful acts argument was, I can accept the issues surrounding the Ruth stats much more easily than I can the Bonds stuff, because Ruth didn't have a choice and Bonds did.

crazzz2007
08-09-2007, 03:09 PM
half the majors today is better than Ruth ever was. eh maybe not half. But a fair proportion.

but I thought the original question was how do we feel about the Bonds record. and that you brought up the Ruth stuff as a point, to say that Ruth's record was itself not without its own kind of taint. To which my willful acts argument was, I can accept the issues surrounding the Ruth stats much more easily than I can the Bonds stuff, because Ruth didn't have a choice and Bonds did.

i guess what i'm saying is that ruth's records aren't tainted because of anything he did. rather, his achievements are over-exaggerated. he's like paul bunyan.

TomAz
08-09-2007, 03:18 PM
over-exaggerated? hahahahahaha

but yeah he's been mythologized. same thing happens with bands too you know. especially 60s bands. The Doors. now there's a paul bunyan of a band.

marooko
08-09-2007, 04:06 PM
what record?

yeah i guess huh? haha

joppy-slow
08-09-2007, 07:31 PM
Yeah, and he never played against the Chinese or Japanese either. This is premise of your argument: 50 years from now people will be saying "Bonds record is a farce because the population of the world was only around 6 billion people, back in 2007. And no one from the Pacific Island's played baseball.. Now that the Germans and Russians are playing and the population is 9 billion, players have a harder time breaking records. So blah blah is a better baseball player.” An amazing player is still an amazing player…
You can look at all the dis-advantages that Ruth had.. no supplements, no steroids, no trainers, equipment, etc.. Of course players now are going to look faster and more in-tune.. sports evolve, as do the players..

I think we will agree to disagree. I still think Ruth is the best baseball player ever.. I would love to see Barry Bond’s pitch one game, just for shits and giggles..

Rather than argue here.. please read the following arguments here:

http://talk-baseball.com/index.php?topic=150.0

Yablonowitz
08-10-2007, 08:06 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v682/yablonowitz/pic17421.jpg

Rookie card.