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View Full Version : WOW, THE SMASHING PUMPKINS ARE EVIL



C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 03:42 PM
I now have even more reason to HATE them besides their latest lame ass recordings. See below. I knew they did this whole (SUDO) reunion thing for the dolla, but try having some fucking dignity Billy, jeesh, you piece of shit has-been. ANNOUNCEMENT! Dick move coming soon to all those who worship his dumbass... see below.

(from pitchfork)

Well, that's the nail in the coffin, then. Just when we were slightly, slightly starting to care about the Smashing Pumpkins again-- what with the release of their long-awaited new album Zeitgeist, and its not-terrible first single, "Tarantula"-- here comes something that makes us more than a bit mellon collie.

Billy and company would like you to know that they fully support the extinction of the American independent record store at the hand of large, faceless, little-guy-crushing big boxes. They also support bleeding their fans dry. How? By releasing FOUR different versions of Zeitgeist.

Best Buy and Target each get a version with an exclusive bonus track. So does iTunes. Like, a different one for each. Everybody else gets the regular version with no bonus tracks. So if you want all of the bonus tracks, you have to buy an album at Best Buy, an album at Target, and an album at iTunes. (Ooh, the presale iTunes version also comes with an extra set of Smashing Pumpkins covers by the Bravery, the Academy Is..., Panic at the Disco, Test Your Reflex, and +44. Ooh.)

Making fans who've been waiting the better part of a decade for new Smashing Pumpkins tunes buy an album several times over is, you know, bullshit. My god, you have to go to Target (and only Target!) to get the version with the title track! That just ain't right.

The Smashing Pumpkins are on tour. Whatever.

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/43795-smashing-pumpkins-to-fans-indie-stores-fuck-you

The day they play Coachella is the day I'm not going, because all of Billy's new fave bands would be there as well, Panic At the Disco, +44, Fall Out Boy, etc... etc...

shakermaker113
06-21-2007, 04:06 PM
wow. I hate the music industry.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
06-21-2007, 04:08 PM
this really pissed me off. especially after I was warming up to the idea of seeing the "reunion" if it came through Denver. Why the fukc would they pull this shit?

suprefan
06-21-2007, 04:34 PM
Cause Billy is weird and his ego is bigger than Stings.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
06-21-2007, 05:10 PM
The day they play Coachella is the day I'm not going, because all of Billy's new fave bands would be there as well, Panic At the Disco, +44, Fall Out Boy, etc... etc...

I don't think Coachella would ever sink this low...

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 05:28 PM
sheiiiit, like you werent going to just steal all three versions off the internet.

crazzz2007
06-21-2007, 05:58 PM
smashing pumpkins are the new guns n roses

whynotsmile99
06-21-2007, 06:05 PM
I can't complain since I wasn't going to pay for it anyway. besides, it's just one extra most likely shitty song. no biggie. done all the time

atom heart
06-21-2007, 06:14 PM
Billboard should probably ban them from the charts like the UK did Beck because his sticker book was extra incentive. I know there are plenty of die-hard fans out there who will buy all four for the hell of it (fools).

JustSteve
06-21-2007, 06:41 PM
smashing pumpkins are the new guns n roses

haha, i used to work for gnr's management, among others, in the mid to late 90's and into the early 2000's and during that time we were in negotiations to manage billy corgan, actually spoke to him on the phone a couple times. luckily for us sharon osbourne won out and i think we all know how that turned out. if not, here is a quote from the statement she released back then: "...I must resign due to medical reasons... Billy Corgan was making me sick!".

just a little random info for ya'll...

Simonc
06-21-2007, 08:01 PM
I would have love to seen the same piece written when Bloc Party essentially did the same exact thing. This is hypocrisy at it's finest! I just never would have thought that Pitchfork would make it so obvious to their readers how much they actually do detest Billy Corgan.

Nate put's it best here from another blog -
"Wow, I'm seriously embarassed for you guys right now. How you allowed this recent "report" to run is beyond me.

The Pumpkins donated every penny from the proceeds of their 1998 Adore Tour to charity. In 2000, they released their final album for free online when the label wouldn't release it. On their current tour, they are charging $20 per ticket at the residencies and are allowing open bootlegging. The situation with the bonus tracks is reprehensible, but to suggest that this is the band's fault smacks of amateurism.

I've enjoyed your site for years. It's a great place for news and the reviews are generally well written, even if I disagree with them. This story falls miles short of your usual quality and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. Check the facts before you run another mindless hatchet job like this. "

menikmati
06-21-2007, 08:07 PM
Fuck the Smashing Pumpkins

suprefan
06-21-2007, 08:17 PM
I would have love to seen the same piece written when Bloc Party essentially did the same exact thing. This is hypocrisy at it's finest! I just never would have thought that Pitchfork would make it so obvious to their readers how much they actually do detest Billy Corgan.

Nate put's it best here from another blog -
"Wow, I'm seriously embarassed for you guys right now. How you allowed this recent "report" to run is beyond me.

The Pumpkins donated every penny from the proceeds of their 1998 Adore Tour to charity. In 2000, they released their final album for free online when the label wouldn't release it. On their current tour, they are charging $20 per ticket at the residencies and are allowing open bootlegging. The situation with the bonus tracks is reprehensible, but to suggest that this is the band's fault smacks of amateurism.

I've enjoyed your site for years. It's a great place for news and the reviews are generally well written, even if I disagree with them. This story falls miles short of your usual quality and I really hope it's not a sign of things to come. Check the facts before you run another mindless hatchet job like this. "



SHUT UP WE DONT CARE. WE WANT ALL OUR BONUS TRACKS AND ONLY ONE ''VERSION'' OF THE CD

Somewhat Damaged
06-21-2007, 08:20 PM
The day they play Coachella is the day I'm not going, because all of Billy's new fave bands would be there as well, Panic At the Disco, +44, Fall Out Boy, etc... etc...

What if Underworld was headlining the Sahara and only, say, +44 were playing? Would you still boycott then?

BTW, I think this is retarded. I've already pre-ordered on iTunes so I can have access to the presale (I'd like to see them in concert still), but I don't care enough about them to NEED every song they make.

ficklecycle
06-21-2007, 08:25 PM
Smashing Pumpkins suck anyways.

tessalasset
06-21-2007, 08:32 PM
SHUT UP WE DONT CARE. WE WANT ALL OUR BONUS TRACKS AND ONLY ONE ''VERSION'' OF THE CDyou sound like you're 5 when you say stuff like this. are you joking?

suprefan
06-21-2007, 08:36 PM
you sound like you're 5 when you say stuff like this. are you joking?

Yeah, I just wanted to do something to follow up Eriks post.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 08:37 PM
What if Underworld was headlining the Sahara and only, say, +44 were playing? Would you still boycott then?

BTW, I think this is retarded. I've already pre-ordered on iTunes so I can have access to the presale (I'd like to see them in concert still), but I don't care enough about them to NEED every song they make.

Yeah I'd still go, still badmouth the hell out of +44 though.

This whole thing (reunion included) just disappoints me really. I really like the first few SP records, honest. I just think the Corgster hit a point where he thought he was better than everyone else, then it all spiraled down after that.

Now when he could've made something special he first half asses a reunion, then pulls this corporate shit. Hell I almost let the art for the single slide (not really cuz it was shit - Paris Hilton, are you fucking kidding Billy?) this is pretty lame for anybody. Hell, if Arcade Fire pulled this shit - I'd say the same thing.

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 08:49 PM
I cannot believe people are bitching about this.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 09:04 PM
really?

This is about as middle finger to music lovers as a band can get. People actually care about this stuff, so yeah people (like me) are bitching because it sucks that someone so well known, and respected (not by me), would do something like this - he might as well sign to the Starbucks label and charge 18 bucks for Zeitgeist.

Its lame, and his ass should be called out on it.

DeltaSigChi4
06-21-2007, 09:17 PM
Yeah I'd still go, still

So, you're a liar. Have no integrity. And no backbone.

Thanks. Explains a lot.

E

superfiction
06-21-2007, 09:22 PM
honestly just buy one coppy and download the bonus tracks. who really cares. im a huge pumpkins fan and i honestly couldnt care less about this

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 09:30 PM
really?

This is about as middle finger to music lovers as a band can get. People actually care about this stuff, so yeah people (like me) are bitching because it sucks that someone so well known, and respected (not by me), would do something like this - he might as well sign to the Starbucks label and charge 18 bucks for Zeitgeist.

Its lame, and his ass should be called out on it.


Billy is making money. Its a business as much as it is an art. He knows more than half the SP fans will DL the album illegally and that goes for people who will DL it just for the fuck of it. Thats why you see so many more artists touring these days and charging 40+ a ticket. Thats recouping expenses plus a cd per ticket sale. I do it. I DL music! but I pay the money for the artists I want to see live whatever they may charge. CDS are dead. Its a dead technology. Paying for MP3 is next. Artists will have to actually work for thier money now, it is a renaissance of sorts. It will actually bring back the rock star to music.

leo01g
06-21-2007, 09:37 PM
I cant wait till they play in LA. I already pre-ordered my Zeitgeist copy from I-tunes.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 09:39 PM
So, you're a liar. Have no integrity. And no backbone.

Thanks. Explains a lot.

E

Awww look everyone - little guy is trying to make a point.

How cute.

look at the post you fucking idiot. if +44 played (with Underworld), that was all that was asked.

i have no integrety? whatevs man - take the cock out of your ass and quit being such a mental midget you scalping fuck.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 09:40 PM
Billy is making money. Its a business as much as it is an art. He knows more than half the SP fans will DL the album illegally and that goes for people who will DL it just for the fuck of it. Thats why you see so many more artists touring these days and charging 40+ a ticket. Thats recouping expenses plus a cd per ticket sale. I do it. I DL music! but I pay the money for the artists I want to see live whatever they may charge. CDS are dead. Its a dead technology. Paying for MP3 is next. Artists will have to actually work for thier money now, it is a renaissance of sorts. It will actually bring back the rock star to music.

you make some valid points - but its dangerous to keeping thinking like that. Illegal DL-ing is not helping matters right now - i dont know what will though either, no one does. this renaissance coud be a giant turd in the end...

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 09:41 PM
why?

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 09:43 PM
Imagine the live shows.....different set lists each concert.....limited ed. merch....ect.....it brings back the concert scene....the community.

This is why large concerts like coachella, lolla, and bonaroo are becoming more popular....its great money for artist....good money from sponsers to the promoters....not to mention the cities that host the concerts..... and the spontaneity of live shows.

This is also why ticket sales are going up.....I will pay for the live shows always.....its the merch boths food and water ect.... bare necessities prices is the only thing ill bitch about.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 09:52 PM
Imagine the live shows.....different set lists each concert.....limited ed. merch....ect.....it brings back the concert scene....the community.

This is why large concerts like coachella, lolla, and bonaroo are becoming more popular....its great money for artist....good money from sponsers to the promoters....not to mention the cities that host the concerts..... and the spontaneity of live shows.

concerts are alive and kicking - no doubt - but with the outlet comes a high price - namely more and more corporate sponsership, and higher ticket prices in the end. Concerts are going to be so important, promotors as well as artists will be forced to back up the funding this way to "insure" success on what will be/is their bread and butter.

Look at the recent Rolling Stone article on concert ticket prices and how they've increased well beyond what was projected, they are like 15 years ahead, we are basically paying 2022 prices today.

Furthur more, I have always said poeple (majority) that get things easy (say like mp3's) don't appreciate them. MP3's have an aire of disposability to them, that's not going to change, it's a sad fact of the format.

I've seen this happen over the years. Less and less peple are having record "experiences", its the age of the single itunes Dl or illegal song off Limewire (or wherever), that to me is scary, not exciting.

This is a much bigger topic than you or I can address. The fact is (of this post) Billy Corgan is a greedy douche.

saxomophone
06-21-2007, 10:00 PM
And how do you know that all of this is Billy's idea?
Don't you think the ticket prices for shows would be more than 20/25 dollars if Billy was so money hungry?
Stop whining. You don't have to buy all the albums.

|\| | |/|
06-21-2007, 10:02 PM
Who gives a fuck? Just download the B-sides, sheesh. Bands are not 100% in controll of shit like this, and while I wouldn't put it past Billy to agree to something like this, I doubt he's sitting in a huge armchair tapping his fingers together with a (nasaly) evil bellow seeing his master plan for money domination nearing completion.

And to the album experiance topic, I fully agree that it's a beautiful thing and should be more embraced by modern bands and fans alike, but the final cut of this album is the same for each release. B-sides have no official place on the album, so it doesn't bother me at all to download them, because they're out of context.

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 10:03 PM
concerts are alive and kicking - no doubt - but with the outlet comes a high price - namely more and more corporate sponsership, and higher ticket prices in the end. Concerts are going to be so important, promotors as well as artists will be forced to back up the funding this way to "insure" success on what will be/is their bread and butter.

Look at the recent Rolling Stone article on concert ticket prices and how they've increased well beyond what was projected, they are like 15 years ahead, we are basically paying 2022 prices today.

Furthur more, I have always said poeple (majority) that get things easy (say like mp3's) don't appreciate them. MP3's have an aire of disposability to them, that's not going to change, it's a sad fact of the format.

I've seen this happen over the years. Less and less peple are having record "experiences", its the age of the single itunes Dl or illegal song off Limewire (or wherever), that to me is scary, not exciting.

This is a much bigger topic than you or I can address. The fact is (of this post) Billy Corgan is a greedy douche.


I will agree with you, to an extent. Its up to the promoters not to be to greedy as to push away the fans with over saturation of advertising, but its becoming almost like the nascar business model of drowning the consumer in ads. If they charged a little more for ticket prices to gaurentee a once in a lifetime show people will pay for it because they know that the artist will live up to expectations. Its the age of instant info....if an artist puts on a shitty show or fucks over thier audience, goddamn right the fans are going to be expecting at the next show and may not give them a second chance. Thats why promoters could learn so much from burning man......it creates itself "community from the people" they let it be what it is. The people decide give, it to them, they decide the outcome, but its within the limits of the promoters capability and regulations....if you blow people away (sensory overload) you bet they will keep coming back for more.

sorry if it did not make sense im kinda drunk.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 10:08 PM
And how do you know that all of this is Billy's idea?
Don't you think the ticket prices for shows would be more than 20/25 dollars if Billy was so money hungry?
Stop whining. You don't have to buy all the albums.


I'm not buying the albums because they are shitty, I'm not whining because I'm pointing out something that's as crooked as music can get, Billy is behind this cause its his f-ing band.

The ticket prices (for this starter tour) is a great thing he did - about the only great thing since Melon Collie.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Who gives a fuck? Just download the B-sides, sheesh. Bands are not 100% in controll of shit like this, and while I wouldn't put it past Billy to agree to something like this, I doubt he's sitting in a huge armchair tapping his fingers together with a (nasaly) evil bellow seeing his master plan for money domination nearing completion.

And to the album experiance topic, I fully agree that it's a beautiful thing and should be more embraced by modern bands and fans alike, but the final cut of this album is the same for each release. B-sides have no official place on the album, so it doesn't bother me at all to download them, because they're out of context.

true.

Still shitty though because he doesn't include the indie shop in his plans

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 10:11 PM
I will agree with you, to an extent. Its up to the promoters not to be to greedy as to push away the fans with over saturation of advertising, but its becoming almost like the nascar business model of drowning the consumer in ads. If they charged a little more for ticket prices to gaurentee a once in a lifetime show people will pay for it because they know that the artist will live up to expectations. Its the age of instant info....if an artist puts on a shitty show or fucks over thier audience, goddamn right the fans are going to be expecting at the next show and may not give them a second chance. Thats why promoters could learn so much from burning man......it creates itself "community from the people" they let it be what it is. The people decide give, it to them, they decide the outcome, but its within the limits of the promoters capability and regulations....if you blow people away (sensory overload) you bet they will keep coming back for more.

sorry if it did not make sense im kinda drunk.

makes sense.

just call me worried about the future.

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Indie shops are dead.....They need to change up thier business model. I will always support them, they need to think smarter. Not work harder.

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 10:13 PM
makes sense.

just call me worried about the future.

Im going to call you Morty. Is your name Morty?

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Indie shops are dead.....They need to change up thier business model. I will always support them, they need to think smarter. Not work harder.

everyone says this - but change to what?

BUT the point I'm making is Billy has turned his back on the very thing that has put him (or helped put him) in this position.

C DUB YA
06-21-2007, 10:14 PM
Im going to call you Morty. Is your name Morty?

hahahaha

no

but call me what you will

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 10:27 PM
everyone says this - but change to what?

BUT the point I'm making is Billy has turned his back on the very thing that has put him (or helped put him) in this position.

Thats just it.....Starbucks is trying to become your new record store....free internet, coffee shop, open late, community of meeting new people, soon you will be able to dl tons of music.....

If indie shops want to survive the need to provide items such as limited ed. merch, have intimate shows....get thier local neighborhoods/local bands involved, allow high speed internet, charge a price for music dl's have live music....have it more like SF in the 60's....not that I know the first thing about that.....but make it more about the scene....the music and the love of it. Make it more about the power of the people.

roberto73
06-21-2007, 10:31 PM
Still shitty though because he doesn't include the indie shop in his plans

I think this is what bothers me. Bands releasing different versions of albums isn't anything new, and I've happily snatched up two or three copies of import singles so I could grab all the b-sides. It's the fact that Corgan chose to license these special versions of his album to chain stores. At a time when small music stores are really suffering, it is a big middle finger to them to cut deals with places that, let's not forget, aren't music stores. These places are very upfront about how they view music: as cheap products that draw people into the store in the hope that they'll look around and buy something expensive. Is that how Corgan views his music? As a tool that helps someone buy a fucking washing machine? I absolutely understand that music is a business as well as an art. But that doesn't mean established artists (espcially ones that started out on independent record labels; in Corgan's case, Caroline) have to suck the big corporate schlong. If he really wanted to be a noncomformist, he would've given the small stores the special version and let the people buying it at Target get the bare bones edition.

And do any of the people sticking up for him really believe he was ignorant of this plan? I admit I don't know all the in's and out's of the financial end of music, but I find it hard to believe that a musician of Corgan's stature wouldn't have had to sign off on this at some point. That makes him complicit, and it makes him, to quote Bill Hicks, just another whore at the capitalist gangbang.

J~$$$
06-21-2007, 10:35 PM
billy corgan can kiss my ass, he has never once cared about his fans, fuck him. Thats why I will steal his new album + all new bonus tracks, I wont listen to it but my lil sis might.

suprefan
06-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Indie shops are dead.....They need to change up thier business model. I will always support them, they need to think smarter. Not work harder.

Except for Amoeba, its nice to live close by one. Althogh Rhino and Aarons records closed because of them, they still are the kings of the indie record store.

DeltaSigChi4
06-21-2007, 10:42 PM
i have no integrety? whatevs man - take the cock out of your ass and quit being such a mental midget you scalping fuck.

integrity*

And follow the previously posted:




The day they play Coachella is the day I'm not going

The above quote stating that if Smashing Pumpkins played, you would not go.

Then ...


What if Underworld was headlining the Sahara and only, say, +44 were playing? Would you still boycott then?




Yeah I'd still go, still badmouth the hell out of +44 though.



In closing, you're a lil' bitch.

E

ficklecycle
06-22-2007, 02:10 AM
Served.

sonofhal
06-22-2007, 03:50 AM
And how do you know that all of this is Billy's idea?

I don't think anyone else in the band is allowed to have ideas, and Billy is a big enough control freak to not let anything get through without his blessing. (regardless of who's idea it was)

The only positive comments people seem to be making about the reunion is that the new bass player is hot. Yawn.

Boourns
06-22-2007, 04:14 AM
I see pitchfork still can't understand the difference between news and editorial. But yeah, this sucks, and Billy Corgan has horrible taste in music. Remember when he was an alternative music icon? Yeah, me neither.

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 04:58 AM
integrity*

And follow the previously posted:




The above quote stating that if Smashing Pumpkins played, you would not go.

Then ...







In closing, you're a lil' bitch.

E

Again the BIGGEST bitch on here is DELTA the scalper.

Ok, I read that differently than you did. So to answer your concern because you DO seem very concerned with my hypothetical statement... if SP and +44 play then no, I ain't going.

are you happy now you cuntbag?

This guy? Jesus.

I never ignore anyone but now I will use the ignore for the first time ever. See ya Delta ya fuck!

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 05:02 AM
I think this is what bothers me. Bands releasing different versions of albums isn't anything new, and I've happily snatched up two or three copies of import singles so I could grab all the b-sides. It's the fact that Corgan chose to license these special versions of his album to chain stores. At a time when small music stores are really suffering, it is a big middle finger to them to cut deals with places that, let's not forget, aren't music stores. These places are very upfront about how they view music: as cheap products that draw people into the store in the hope that they'll look around and buy something expensive. Is that how Corgan views his music? As a tool that helps someone buy a fucking washing machine? I absolutely understand that music is a business as well as an art. But that doesn't mean established artists (espcially ones that started out on independent record labels; in Corgan's case, Caroline) have to suck the big corporate schlong. If he really wanted to be a noncomformist, he would've given the small stores the special version and let the people buying it at Target get the bare bones edition.

And do any of the people sticking up for him really believe he was ignorant of this plan? I admit I don't know all the in's and out's of the financial end of music, but I find it hard to believe that a musician of Corgan's stature wouldn't have had to sign off on this at some point. That makes him complicit, and it makes him, to quote Bill Hicks, just another whore at the capitalist gangbang.


well said - all of it.

Daft Fro
06-22-2007, 05:13 AM
We all know that a week before the cd comes out, there will already be a torrent that has the album + the 3 from the corporate whores. And you know you will download it :P

But yea, this whole thing is looking a little ehhh....almost embarassing for those who had some faith....*cough* =\

DeltaSigChi4
06-22-2007, 05:59 AM
I never ignore anyone but now I will use the ignore for the first time ever. See ya Delta ya fuck!

Ignore away you cumquat. Do us all a favour and stop posting as well.

Imbecile.

E

DeltaSigChi4
06-22-2007, 06:01 AM
And you know you will download it :P


I'm going to purchase the iTunes version so I can see half of Smashing Pumpkins live, and I am not illegally downloading anything. In fact, I don't even have torrent software on my machine. Stealing art is quite low in non-philistine eyes.

E

sonofhal
06-22-2007, 06:53 AM
Stealing art is quite low in non-philistine eyes.

E

Whereas being a douche.....

thinnerair
06-22-2007, 06:59 AM
bitch bitch bitch.
moan moan moan.


RHCP did the same shit with 'Stadium Arcadium' and nobody said shit.
The bands that did the Smashing Pumpkins cover songs that are included in that presale are part of a package that was put together by SPIN magazine. Besides, those tracks are available for free download on Myspace and are going to be released with a special edition of SPIN magazine later this summer. Ugh.

The Smashing Pumpkins have over 900 songs in their catalog (www.spfc.org)
and people bitch about 2 or 3 songs? Sheesh.

Good Days Last
06-22-2007, 07:01 AM
You guys are such babies.

Seriously. You're all acting like you HAVE to buy EVERY VERSION.

Well stop being sheep and stop listening to pitchfork. They suck.

Just buy one, download the bonus tracks illegally somewhere, eh?
Goll, this thread infuriates me because people whine about the stupidest things. I mean, if Arcade Fire, or whatever other indie-crap bands you like released 4 different versions, you'd all be pissing yourselves to buy all 4.

Including you threadstarter.

sonofhal
06-22-2007, 07:06 AM
bitch bitch bitch.
moan moan moan.


RHCP did the same shit with 'Stadium Arcadium' and nobody said shit.
.

No. They just heard shit instead.

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 07:26 AM
You guys are such babies.

Seriously. You're all acting like you HAVE to buy EVERY VERSION.

Well stop being sheep and stop listening to pitchfork. They suck.

Just buy one, download the bonus tracks illegally somewhere, eh?
Goll, this thread infuriates me because people whine about the stupidest things. I mean, if Arcade Fire, or whatever other indie-crap bands you like released 4 different versions, you'd all be pissing yourselves to buy all 4.

Including you threadstarter.

Um, No, no I wouldn't go buy all 4.

I have no interest in the crappy SP music, though - but thats not the point.

and this thread isn't about buying the versions as much as it is Billy dealing with big box - NON music stores in the first place. If the Arcade Fire (or whoever) decided to deal ONLY with those type stores and ignore indies or whatever, then that would be shitty thing to do, it doesn't matter who the band is.

and Rolling Stone and Q have reported on this as well, so its not just Pitchfork.

luckyface
06-22-2007, 07:35 AM
Not that I think the band had nothing to do with it, but how do we know this was directly tied to them and not the label?

It's stupid to have those different versions of the album, but I will just download them later in some way shape or form, anyway. So this isn't a big deal to me.

roberto73
06-22-2007, 07:37 AM
You guys are such babies.

Seriously. You're all acting like you HAVE to buy EVERY VERSION.

Well stop being sheep and stop listening to pitchfork. They suck.

Just buy one, download the bonus tracks illegally somewhere, eh?
Goll, this thread infuriates me because people whine about the stupidest things. I mean, if Arcade Fire, or whatever other indie-crap bands you like released 4 different versions, you'd all be pissing yourselves to buy all 4.

Including you threadstarter.

You didn't even read my post, did you? You couldn't have, because if you did, you'd know that I'm not taking issue with Corgan issuing multiple versions of his album. What irks me is Corgan licensing these special editions to large chain stores like Best Buy and Target – places that aren't music stores, and that use music as a tool to get people to buy high-price items. If you haven't read anything about music retail recently, stores like Best Buy account for more and more sales, and they're driving small music stores – stores that love music and exist to cater to people who love music – out of business. If you consider that to be "whin[ing] about the stupidest things," I'd ask you, if you're a music fan, to reevaluate your priorities.

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 07:38 AM
Not that I think the band had nothing to do with it, but how do we know this was directly tied to them and not the label?

It's stupid to have those different versions of the album, but I will just download them later in some way shape or form, anyway. So this isn't a big deal to me.

I guess no one really knows - but I think its safe to assume Billy has some say in the matter, and what he views as a "cool" marketing idea is coming off greedy and calculated... in a very bad way.

It flies in the face of everything he once did on an indie. I realize artists change and sometimes their integrity changes as well, sometimes for the worse. Success is a slippery slope for some. I would have loved if the new SP album was great (it isn't) and I would have loved if Billy went about this whole thing like he did when Gish or Siamese came out. (for example he gave indie stores exclusive LP promos of Gish, knowing thats where his fans came from)

he has been quoted many times saying that the Pumpkins success is because of indie radio and indie record stores, as well as the Chicago fans that started the snowball. (CMJ and Select magazine)

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
06-22-2007, 07:42 AM
Indie shops are dead.....They need to change up thier business model. I will always support them, they need to think smarter. Not work harder.

I completely agree on this %100. I love indie shops because of their variety not the prices..And when I can find stuff @ Best Buy or Target, that I normally would have only found in a indie shop 5 years ago for much cheaper then they have lost their advantage. Flaming Lips, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Bjork, Sigur Ros, Radiohead can all be found at the stores I mentioned. Sometimes for as much as $6 cheaper. Last Cd I was looking for couldn't be found at either was Girl Talk's Night Ripper...And where did I found it? For $18 at effing Virgin...

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
06-22-2007, 07:45 AM
I see pitchfork still can't understand the difference between news and editorial. But yeah, this sucks, and Billy Corgan has horrible taste in music. Remember when he was an alternative music icon? Yeah, me neither.

Agree, I love pitchfork but they can be incredible biased with their reporting. Their reviews the past few years have been very scattershot as well. Alas, I still go to them for new stuff..

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 07:52 AM
I completely agree on this %100. I love indie shops because of their variety not the prices..And when I can find stuff @ Best Buy or Target, that I normally would have only found in a indie shop 5 years ago for much cheaper then they have lost their advantage. Flaming Lips, Rodrigo Y Gabriela, Bjork, Sigur Ros, Radiohead can all be found at the stores I mentioned. Sometimes for as much as $6 cheaper. Last Cd I was looking for couldn't be found at either was Girl Talk's Night Ripper...And where did I found it? For $18 at effing Virgin...

Girl Talk... I'm surprised Virgin carried that with all the legal woes that disc is in.

I agree with you.

Indie shops need to be there for things I can not find. But i have found the selection at these big box stores is horrid. I have gone to Best Buy to purchase even a minor release (its close to my work) but its either only a few dollars cheaper, or more likely NOT CARRIED IN STOCK. So I usually order it from insound or my local indie shop has it (we here in C-Bus have 4 good ones by the way). I pay a few dollars more and maybe drive a few more miles, but I think its worth it because what I'm buying usually is.

for example

Went to Best Buy Tuesday. Wanted to get the new Art Brut and Tokyo Police Club (for a gift) they had neither.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
06-22-2007, 08:03 AM
Girl Talk... I'm surprised Virgin carried that with all the legal woes that disc is in.

I agree with you.

Indie shops need to be there for things I can not find. But i have found the selection at these big box stores is horrid. I have gone to Best Buy to purchase even a minor release (its close to my work) but its either only a few dollars cheaper, or more likely NOT CARRIED IN STOCK. So I usually order it from insound or my local indie shop has it (we here in C-Bus have 4 good ones by the way). I pay a few dollars more and maybe drive a few more miles, but I think its worth it because what I'm buying usually is.

for example

Went to Best Buy Tuesday. Wanted to get the new Art Brut and Tokyo Police Club (for a gift) they had neither.

Online stores are another source of their woes. I have been to shops where they say they will special order it, but if that is the case then I could do it online myself for cheaper.

Good Days Last
06-22-2007, 08:04 AM
You didn't even read my post, did you? You couldn't have, because if you did, you'd know that I'm not taking issue with Corgan issuing multiple versions of his album. What irks me is Corgan licensing these special editions to large chain stores like Best Buy and Target – places that aren't music stores, and that use music as a tool to get people to buy high-price items. If you haven't read anything about music retail recently, stores like Best Buy account for more and more sales, and they're driving small music stores – stores that love music and exist to cater to people who love music – out of business. If you consider that to be "whin[ing] about the stupidest things," I'd ask you, if you're a music fan, to reevaluate your priorities.

I did read your post, but maybe I didn't respond to all of it.

I understand that smaller music stores are going out of business due to the Wal-Marts and Targets of the world. But that's how the consumer is willing to lean. This reaches far greater than being a "music fan'. This music business is exactly that. A music business. You're going to put your albums in the greatest position to be sold. And if you claim to just want to put your music out to "be heard" than you're going to put your albums in the greatest position to be heard. And that is in the larger more commercial stores.

The neighborhood music stores had their glory years, but they're a dying breed. I'm not endorsing Conglomerate giants, but it's fact. You said it yourself. Best Buy is accounting for more sales. It's simply more convenient to the majority of the public to count on one store for more than one need these days. As a music fan, I have been disturbed at times of the way music has been taken, and shaken down. There a very few legit artists these days in it for the music. Maybe I took a wrong approach by bashing the indie artists because they have things more under control with their music by not letting the bigger companies push them around.

DeltaSigChi4
06-22-2007, 08:05 AM
WAH,WAH,WAH,WAH,WAH.

Everyone whining and complaining like lil bitches are ......

LIL BITCHES.

Don't like how Billy Corgan or ANYONE is handling selling their records? DON'T FUCKING BUY THEM YOU FUCKING IDIOT!!

Spend your time reading what Pitchfork has to say about music instead of listening.

E

JustSteve
06-22-2007, 08:15 AM
I Last Cd I was looking for couldn't be found at either was Girl Talk's Night Ripper...And where did I found it? For $18 at effing Virgin...

why didn't you just buy it on his site where you pay $10 and download it immediately AND they send you the actual cd, as well.

thinnerair
06-22-2007, 08:26 AM
The whole issue sucks.
Because of insane amounts of downloading, bands have to generate some sort of incentive for people to go out and buy a CD. Bands have to create 4 special edition cds to recoup lost revenue from record sales. It's not just a matter of a band 'not getting as money as possible' but it also has to do with recouping costs for putting out a record. Billy Corgan hires 2 producers to work on this record. One of which is Terry Date, who pulls in almost 6 figures before points on the record. The band has to find a way to make this money back.
So, what if the band says that they are going to give these exclusives to record stores. That means that management has to deal with thousands of individual purchasing departments from various indie record stores. Then you have the issue that some indie stores aren't subscribed to Soundscan, so those sales are going to be reflected in the Billboard Top 100, which then leads the press to believe that the record didn't do as well as it may have, simply because they rely on Billboard for their figures.

Then, lets say that they do in fact say that they want to cater to the indie stores and provide them with the exclusive versions. What about the big box stores? They are responsible for a huge percentage of their sales. They are entitled to some exclusivity. Corgan is just gonna say no to Walmartbecause he's really too punk rock at heart? So, then Walmart decides to charge a bit more for their 'regular' version of the cd and his sales suffer in the long run...or they might not even carry the record at all.

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 09:33 AM
The whole issue sucks.
Because of insane amounts of downloading, bands have to generate some sort of incentive for people to go out and buy a CD. Bands have to create 4 special edition cds to recoup lost revenue from record sales. It's not just a matter of a band 'not getting as money as possible' but it also has to do with recouping costs for putting out a record. Billy Corgan hires 2 producers to work on this record. One of which is Terry Date, who pulls in almost 6 figures before points on the record. The band has to find a way to make this money back.
So, what if the band says that they are going to give these exclusives to record stores. That means that management has to deal with thousands of individual purchasing departments from various indie record stores. Then you have the issue that some indie stores aren't subscribed to Soundscan, so those sales are going to be reflected in the Billboard Top 100, which then leads the press to believe that the record didn't do as well as it may have, simply because they rely on Billboard for their figures.

Then, lets say that they do in fact say that they want to cater to the indie stores and provide them with the exclusive versions. What about the big box stores? They are responsible for a huge percentage of their sales. They are entitled to some exclusivity. Corgan is just gonna say no to Walmartbecause he's really too punk rock at heart? So, then Walmart decides to charge a bit more for their 'regular' version of the cd and his sales suffer in the long run...or they might not even carry the record at all.

the issue does suck

BUT just because a huge big box store sells more, does that mean they should be given the exclusives? Something crooked about that logic, because as its been stated many times here those stores don't CARE about music at all. They view them (music sales) as loss leaders.

Billy paying a producer is his thing, so what? From the sounds of things he should of produced it himself.

bands don't have to put out 4 versions... but again thats NOT the issue its making those special versions for the big box stores that really don't give a shit about what you do as a creative property. And saying f-off to the indie stores and fans that fucking gave you a career in the first place.

Simonc
06-22-2007, 10:25 AM
This is good to see, some Pitchfork backlash-
http://www.harpmagazine.com/news/detail.cfm?article=11353

Smashing Pumpkins Ignite Indie Purism Brou-Ha-Ha
Fred Mills
June 22, 2007
On the eve of the Smashing Pumpkins tour that kicks off Saturday night (June 23) with a nine-date residency in Asheville, NC (just a stones’ throw from HARP’s southern bureau, in fact), music websites and the blogosphere erupted in a napalm-strafed shitstorm over the band’s plans to release four different versions of their comeback album Zeitgeist. Consumers will be able to choose between purchasing the album at your standard mom-and-pop indie record store or, by shopping at either Best Buy, Target and iTunes, receive a differently configured Zeitgeist containing an exclusive-to-that-retailer bonus tracks.

Those configurations line up thusly:

Standard tracklist:

1 Doomsday Clock
2 7 Shades of Black
3 Bleeding the Orchid
4 That's the Way (My Love Is)
5 Tarantula
6 Starz
7 United States
8 Neverlost
9 Bring the Light
10 (Come On) Let's Go!
11 For God and Country
12 Pomp and Circumstances

Best Buy:

1. Doomsday Clock
2. 7 Shades of Black
3. Bleeding the Orchid
4. That's the Way (My Love Is)
5. Tarantula
6. Starz
7. United States
8. Neverlost
9. Death From Above (bonus track)
10. Bring the Light
11. (Come On) Let's Go!
12. For God and Country
13. Pomp and Circumstances

Target:

1. Doomsday Clock
2. 7 Shades of Black
3. Bleeding the Orchid
4. That's the Way (My Love Is)
5. Tarantula
6. Starz
7. United States
8. Neverlost
9. Bring the Light
10. (Come On) Let's Go!
11. For God and Country
12. Pomp and Circumstances
13. Zeitgeist (bonus track)

iTunes:

1. Doomsday Clock
2. 7 Shades of Black
3. Bleeding the Orchid
4. That's the Way (My Love Is)
5. Tarantula
6. Starz
7. United States
8. Neverlost
9. Bring the Light
10. (Come On) Let's Go!
11. For God and Country
12. Pomp and Circumstances
13. Stellar (bonus track)

Weighing in most vehemently on this apparently egregious stroke of marketing (“giving consumers a choice” is a synonym) was Pitchfork, who led off with the following header: “Smashing Pumpkins to Fans, Indie Stores: Fuck You” and followed that with the subhead “Warning: Excessive greed may cause baldness, artistic impotence.”

The ensuing editorial read, in part:

“Just when we were slightly, slightly starting to care about the Smashing Pumpkins again—what with the release of their long-awaited new album Zeitgeist, and its not-terrible first single, ‘Tarantula’—here comes something that makes us more than a bit mellon collie. Billy and company would like you to know that they fully support the extinction of the American independent record store at the hand of large, faceless, little-guy-crushing big boxes. They also support bleeding their fans dry. How? By releasing FOUR different versions of Zeitgeist… Making fans who've been waiting the better part of a decade for new Smashing Pumpkins tunes buy an album several times over is, you know, bullshit. My god, you have to go to Target (and only Target!) to get the version with the title track! That just ain't right. The Smashing Pumpkins are on tour. Whatever.”

Other media sources offered their own commentary in varying degrees of snark, disdain and outrage. Over at the Bad Idea Bluejeans blog, for example, wrote:

“Apparently it wasn't enough for Billy Corgan to simply masquerade his new band as a reunited version of the Smashing Pumpkins…. Here's a charming tale of how they plan to sell their "comeback" album. Best Buy and Target each get a version with an exclusive bonus track. So does iTunes. Like, a different one for each. Everybody else gets the regular version with no bonus tracks. So if you want all of the bonus tracks, you have to buy an album at Best Buy, an album at Target, and an album at iTunes.

“So it looks like they're putting out four different versions of the album, right? Oh if only. I did a little snooping and discovered that there will actually be twelve different versions of the album worldwide. TWELVE! In actuality, you can put out 50 different versions for all I care. If your fans are stupid enough to swallow the nonsense of buying multiple copies of an album in each cover with each bonus track, then more power to you. And the fact is that the bonus tracks will float around online, so if people really want to hear them, they can do it. But the distribution method of screwing over independent record stores is complete bullshit. You could at least ship the different bonus track versions around, instead of going out of your way to force people to buy the album at Best Buy or Target instead of an actual record store. It makes you wonder if Billy Corgan ever received the age old advice of "Don't shit where you eat." Dinner is served!”

And so it goes, as every Monday morning rock quarterback on the Internet weighs in today (Friday morning, technically speaking) with his or her own redundant spin on things. What these indie purists conveniently fail to mention is that the Pumpkins’ strategy is nothing new; retailers have been offering premiums since the dawn of commerce in order to entice consumers to shop at their particular outlet, and the creators of goods have generally gone along with it too, often entering into temporarily exclusive partnerships with the retailers they think can most effectively sell their product. (I recall going specifically to Best Buy a few years ago because I wanted a free Beatles teeshirt that was being given away to the first 50 or so people who bought a new Beatles book.)

A quick google just of Best Buy’s “exclusives” in the recent past yields a diverse selection of artists who’ve partnered with the company to offer bonus content: the Who, the Beach Boys, the Bravery, Dixie Chicks, Rush, Shiny Toy Guns (who?), Paul McCartney, Killswitch Engage… that’s all within the first 20 results. Most if not all of those bands are on major labels, of course, but so what? The Pumpkins are too.

Obviously it’s the fact that independent stores are being left out of the equation here that is rubbing folks the wrong way. The so-called “big-box stigma” comes into play too—in the past yours truly has often referred to Best Buy as “The Evil Empire” so I can certainly empathize with people whose impulse is to bash Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, etc. That indie stores are disappearing rapidly in the U.S. and across the globe is a tragedy, absolutely—I worked at one for ten years—and scenarios like this, on the surface, appear to give Best Buy et al an unfair advantage which further contributes to the indies’ decline.

Of course, it’s easy to overlook the fact that indie stores have also been the beneficiaries of similar arrangements, working with record labels to offer freebies, premiums or exclusive-to-their-chain titles to their customers. Those days may now be on the wane or even a thing of the past, given how a lot of labels advertising and marketing budgets have undergone a lot of belt-tightening, but I don’t recall anyone ever raising a stink over this or that mom-and-pop store getting some kind of unfair advantage.

And let us not forget to mention iTunes, which practically on a weekly basis has a slew of new “iTunes exclusives,” from early-release singles to albums and EPs you can’t get anywhere else. I mean, gee whiz, I sure would like to have that Yo La Tengo exclusive iTunes-only EP but I don’t have the necessary computer gear that would allow me to utilize and download/burn iTunes material, so I guess I’m just shit out of luck. Was that a case of Yo La Tengo giving iTunes “an unfair advantage,” hmm?

At this stage in the game, let’s face it—this is much ado about nothing, or at least a lot to do about something you can’t do anything about. The filly’s not only left the gate, but it’s rounding the second turn by now. Artists have made and will continue to make the decision on how best to market themselves and sell their art. And c’mon, people, don’t be deliberately naïve just to make an editorial point: people know how to get their hands on this so-called “exclusive content” once it’s been released without having to purchase a record multiple times. File sharing sites like Dime A Dozen abound; friends who know workarounds for thwarting copy protection software will burn discs for friends; and based on firsthand observation during my record store tenure, I’ll make a prediction that high school and college kids will just go in and shoplift the stuff. Not that we here at your friendly neighborhood HARP advocate any illegal, immoral or otherwise untoward activity.

Meanwhile, the Smashing Pumpkins are probably laughing their ass off at all the free publicity they’re getting over this album-release brou-ha-ha.

This has been a public service announcement—with guitars

faxman75
06-22-2007, 10:31 AM
Some people get really angry about really stupid shit.

Fuck pitchfork. I get a few indie suggestions from them every now and again but overall they are pretty much all total music snobs. I consider myself a music snob but they are fucking elitists.

DIE INDIE SCUM...............

Thank you.

C DUB YA
06-22-2007, 11:07 AM
FUCK HARP MAGAZINE.

Talk about a shitty pub.

alpharuin
06-22-2007, 01:48 PM
This is a very douche move by Billy. I will not be picking up the new album, nor was I planning to.

shakermaker113
06-22-2007, 04:24 PM
I understand that smaller music stores are going out of business due to the Wal-Marts and Targets of the world.

hold on, where did you hear that? I know this is common for say book stores, but last I heard indie music stores (amoeba in particular) were thriving while larger stores (e.g. virgin, and until recently tower) were struggling.

wal-marts and targets have a convenience advantage over virgin and tower. if someone is picking up trash liners (or some other frequently purchased item) at target, and they also happen to want a cd that is in stock, they aren't going to go to another store.

but target and wal-mart will never provide the same kind of selection a dedicated store can -- there have been several testimonies of this in the thread already.

mega marts and indie stores are in different leagues, so I don't think either will drown the other out. major record stores seem to be in trouble, but as far as I can tell the indie stores are doing just fine.

BoneDaddy
06-22-2007, 07:43 PM
I am appalled and aghast that people would want to make money off of the product they make. HOW DARE THEY! Next you'll know, I'll find out that politicians are corrupt, corporations are corrupt and that democracy is a bunch of bunk. My world is imploding as I type. :confused:























































Give me a FUCKING break.:dumbo

faxman75
06-23-2007, 12:20 AM
The record co. aka Reprise makes the lions share of the profits from the album itself. Pitchfork really do come off as neive in that article. I don't think the Smashing Pumpkins have ever claimed any sort of indie status and last I checked musicians do like to make a living.

Ripping off the fan is chargin $18 a cd, not selling it with different bonus tracks at different stores.

superfiction
06-23-2007, 12:50 AM
even if they have say they dont have control. someone post that intervew of trent reznor talking about the year zero price in australia and how pissed he is about it. thats a perfect example

bballarl
06-23-2007, 01:04 AM
I honestly don't understand the consternation. If the issue is the extra tracks, download them like the rest of us will. If the issue is the fact you can buy it in Wal-Mart and Best Buy and indie stores don't get the bonus stuff, realize that this is the direction music is going in. I don't like The White Stripes any less because I bought Icky Thump for $9.99 at Target the day it came out.

And seriously, c'mon Pitchfork. I'm getting so tired of this shit.

shakermaker113
06-23-2007, 07:22 AM
the consternation is that this is a capitalist move, when a lot of people would like to think that billy & co have some artistic integrity. it's a move made purely for financial reasons -- probably to benefit the stores more than anyone else.
all this achieves is getting people to buy at those particular stores, and possibly getting a number of people to buy more than one copy.

faxman75
06-23-2007, 08:55 AM
the consternation is that this is a capitalist move, when a lot of people would like to think that billy & co have some artistic integrity. it's a move made purely for financial reasons -- probably to benefit the stores more than anyone else.
all this achieves is getting people to buy at those particular stores, and possibly getting a number of people to buy more than one copy.


Artistic inegrity? Are you fucking kidding me? Once an artist creates work, it is his to do with as he please. I hope someone tells you some day how you can't market you work and you should be called a piece of shit for any business decisions you make that allow you to get more money for you and your family.

Retards. I hope Billy makes 10 billion dollars off of this but the fact is that you seem to blatantly ignore is the artist isn't making very much money at all off of album sales. Billy makes his money touring and as someone stated earlier name another fucking artist who donated all the proceeds from a a tour to charity??/


Q Prime, the management for the band, released figures from the 15 city charity tour. The band donated virtually all of the ticket revenues totalling exactly $2,686,973.59


But Billy is a scumbag. Those of you who criticize Billy for this are douchebags.

luckyface
06-23-2007, 10:37 AM
Seriously people, is this really something that you dwell on? If it is, find some other hobbies.

shakermaker113
06-23-2007, 10:51 AM
Artistic inegrity? Are you fucking kidding me? Once an artist creates work, it is his to do with as he please.

fair enough. but whoever is responsible -- and it may not be Billy -- is certainly not very thoughful. if they were concerned about fans they wouldn't make it so difficult for fans to legitimately get the songs they want (and then complain about the piracy).

that's probably what this is about. not integrity, as I first suggested, but just neglect.

corbo
06-23-2007, 10:54 AM
TEV. now im just gonna DOWNLOAD the fucking songs and not give him a single fucking penny.

faxman75
06-23-2007, 07:44 PM
you sure showed him

C DUB YA
06-24-2007, 05:47 AM
Point is this -

he could made this whole shebang a lot "better" (cooler, artisitic,...whatever) if he just kept Walmart and the like out of it.

Those stores are going to carry it anyway - he could've set something up with the indie stores where they could get a cd single or ep with all the bonus tracks... and reward those people and store owners for sticking with him. Instead you are rewarding those who really don't give a shit about you, and thus - you don't give a shit about the little guys in this world.

Thumbs up Billy, good show.

Oh this record is going to tank by the way.

faxman75
06-24-2007, 08:08 AM
Yes, he sure could have because all kinds of bands are releasing special tracks just to the indie stores. That makes tons of sense too right, I mean even though most people are buying there cd's elsewhere, he should distribute and pay special attention to the Indie Record store fans instead, just so the most snobish and elitist of all music fans can benefit and we can all wave our anti target and best buy flag.

Again you are blaming the artist for album distribution, not the records label and don't seem to care about the difference much like you bashed walmart and the story never even mentioned walmart.

Differences matter so far you are just rambling and complaining for the sake of rambling and complaining. You can't even get the facts straight.

C DUB YA
06-24-2007, 12:14 PM
Yes, he sure could have because all kinds of bands are releasing special tracks just to the indie stores. That makes tons of sense too right, I mean even though most people are buying there cd's elsewhere, he should distribute and pay special attention to the Indie Record store fans instead, just so the most snobish and elitist of all music fans can benefit and we can all wave our anti target and best buy flag.

Again you are blaming the artist for album distribution, not the records label and don't seem to care about the difference much like you bashed walmart and the story never even mentioned walmart.

Differences matter so far you are just rambling and complaining for the sake of rambling and complaining. You can't even get the facts straight.

Really? C'mon Faxman - you don't think this is shitty? Not in the least???

There's nothing elitest about it (maybe on Billy's and the labels part)

I can go on and on and how many (special editions) have been made over the years. I could always count on my local indie shop to carry such an item. Let's see... The Radiohead special editions come to mind. ANYWAY, I can never find that type of stuff at a big box. I ordered my Interpol Deluxe from an indie because who wants to clown around with know nothings at Best Buy? They have no idea if they are going to carry it - hell, they have no idea who Interpol is. So I don't usually shop there for my music, is that elitist? If so, then I guess I am one.

If I like the buying experinece of my fave indie shop here, going in shooting the shit about good records I've heard, picking up an unexpected 12" or t-shirt, does that make me elitist snob, or do I just care more about what I listen to and how I spend my music dollars?

So - when the Smashing Lumpkins and their label decided to exclude something that normally is up to the retailer to decide on whether they want to stock it - I cry foul. They have taken those who like his band out of their indie shops and force them to buy at a big box retailer, becaus ethe smaller stores have no say in what version they get - cuz they DON'T get one.

Jesus man, insert Target or whatever store you want - I wasn't bashing the Wal Mart store on purpose. In fact, insert any big box store (Best Buy, Target, Walmart, Costco, Circuit City, K Mart) they are all basically the same on how they handle and look at music - LOSS LEADERS, and that's what I was referring to. But you knew that.

J~$$$
06-24-2007, 02:23 PM
I heard an interview today that chuck morris and AEG live are trying to get the SP to play Redrocks at the end of the summer.

chiapet
06-24-2007, 04:06 PM
I honestly didn't realize people still cared enough about them to justify multiple versions of the album. But then apparently they are playing something like two or three weeks of shows here in SF, and *every* one of them sold out. It's astounding. (And kind of insulting to me that a venue is going to be tied up with the fucking smashing pumpkins for weeks when better bands could be playing).

Good Days Last
06-25-2007, 11:49 AM
hold on, where did you hear that? I know this is common for say book stores, but last I heard indie music stores (amoeba in particular) were thriving while larger stores (e.g. virgin, and until recently tower) were struggling.

wal-marts and targets have a convenience advantage over virgin and tower. if someone is picking up trash liners (or some other frequently purchased item) at target, and they also happen to want a cd that is in stock, they aren't going to go to another store.

but target and wal-mart will never provide the same kind of selection a dedicated store can -- there have been several testimonies of this in the thread already.

mega marts and indie stores are in different leagues, so I don't think either will drown the other out. major record stores seem to be in trouble, but as far as I can tell the indie stores are doing just fine.


Locally, I've had two or three indie shops close down on me. And this is a GROWING area that I'm living in. Unless I just live in a crappy area musically (which I do) then I'm going to assume the music scene is collapsing at other places also.

I mean, we've had basically two music venues close down here also. The two biggest of the area. Just because some stupid hardcore bands come and the stupid kids that follow them decide to start all sorts of tough guy shit. Just a bunch of white skater kids in Utah trying hard to be hardcore and gangsta.

Maybe I'm just frustrated due to the lack of music scene at all here.

C DUB YA
06-25-2007, 01:01 PM
5 years ago we had 8 indie owned music stores throughout Columbus, now we have 4 with one of those announcing its closure happening by summer's end.

Venues are faring about the same. two closures of small clubs and the announcement that we are losing our ampiththeater because the land is too valuable for it now.

C DUB YA
06-28-2007, 07:56 AM
UGH.

the artwork for the single screams of desperartion and is not at all clever.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j32/carywhitt/515PWiIYFPL.jpg

betao
06-28-2007, 10:19 AM
is that paris hilton?

C DUB YA
06-28-2007, 07:59 PM
yes.

betao
06-28-2007, 08:15 PM
what did tarantulas do to deserve this?

algunz
06-28-2007, 08:22 PM
Is that for real?

chrisrockstar
06-29-2007, 03:12 PM
you guys are idiots.
I joined this forum just to say that.

Questioning an artists "artistic integrity" is not something that anyone has the right to do.
you don't know what their intentions are and where their records are sold has nothing to do with the matter.
Smashing Pumpkins are an amazing band and them having multiple versions is no worse than an "indie" band releasing an LP AND a cd.

you need to grow up and realize that musicians need to eat. they get about 5% of their record sales...so most of their money isnt coming from the albums anyway...its coming from the concerts they play...that are not highly priced at all...they gave away an entire album..and like people has previously stated....have given audiences the right to record their performances in any manor they would like.

would you take a smaller paycheck just to be nice to one of your customers?

betao
06-29-2007, 03:50 PM
you and C DUB should never been in the same room at the same time.

luckyface
06-29-2007, 04:37 PM
I am a huge Pumpkins fan and I don't care at all that they are releasing the CD like this. With that said, chrisrockstar is the biggest fanboy I have ever seen.

C DUB YA
06-29-2007, 09:39 PM
hehe

yeah joining this board just to defend the steaming pile of crap known as SP 2007, is a bold and silly move.

Talk about idiots...



you need to grow up and realize that musicians need to eat. they get about 5% of their record sales...so most of their money isnt coming from the albums anyway...its coming from the concerts they play...that are not highly priced at all...they gave away an entire album..and like people has previously stated....have given audiences the right to record their performances in any manor they would like.


the whole paragraph about bands needing to eat - stupid. If it was a no-name band trying to release their debut would be one thing - but we are talkng about someone who is doing (or done) just fine for themselves in that department. So I think greedy is a word that comes to mind when thinking about Mr. Corgan. He can play all the $25 concerts he wants to (which won't last long by the way), that still doesn't make it ok to be a douche bag about everything else.

and yes, the Tarantula sleeve is for real.

kyzer soze
07-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Album leaked!

suprefan
07-01-2007, 05:13 PM
We know, welcome to last night.

mandelbaum
07-03-2007, 01:35 PM
I now have even more reason to HATE them besides their latest lame ass recordings. See below. I knew they did this whole (SUDO) reunion thing for the dolla, but try having some fucking dignity Billy, jeesh, you piece of shit has-been. ANNOUNCEMENT! Dick move coming soon to all those who worship his dumbass... see below.

(from pitchfork)

Well, that's the nail in the coffin, then. Just when we were slightly, slightly starting to care about the Smashing Pumpkins again-- what with the release of their long-awaited new album Zeitgeist, and its not-terrible first single, "Tarantula"-- here comes something that makes us more than a bit mellon collie.

Billy and company would like you to know that they fully support the extinction of the American independent record store at the hand of large, faceless, little-guy-crushing big boxes. They also support bleeding their fans dry. How? By releasing FOUR different versions of Zeitgeist.

Best Buy and Target each get a version with an exclusive bonus track. So does iTunes. Like, a different one for each. Everybody else gets the regular version with no bonus tracks. So if you want all of the bonus tracks, you have to buy an album at Best Buy, an album at Target, and an album at iTunes. (Ooh, the presale iTunes version also comes with an extra set of Smashing Pumpkins covers by the Bravery, the Academy Is..., Panic at the Disco, Test Your Reflex, and +44. Ooh.)

Making fans who've been waiting the better part of a decade for new Smashing Pumpkins tunes buy an album several times over is, you know, bullshit. My god, you have to go to Target (and only Target!) to get the version with the title track! That just ain't right.

The Smashing Pumpkins are on tour. Whatever.

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/43795-smashing-pumpkins-to-fans-indie-stores-fuck-you

The day they play Coachella is the day I'm not going, because all of Billy's new fave bands would be there as well, Panic At the Disco, +44, Fall Out Boy, etc... etc...

Dude. You really need to stop letting the Smashing Pumpkins get to you so much. It's quite pathetic.

C DUB YA
07-03-2007, 08:39 PM
nobody "gets" to me mandel...

I like talking music, good and bad. Thats it, nothing pathethic about that at all.

TeamCoachellaHellYeah
07-04-2007, 05:48 AM
nobody "gets" to me mandel...

I like talking music, good and bad. Thats it, nothing pathethic about that at all.

Word...

faxman75
07-04-2007, 11:09 AM
hehe

yeah joining this board just to defend the steaming pile of crap known as SP 2007, is a bold and silly move.

Talk about idiots...



the whole paragraph about bands needing to eat - stupid. If it was a no-name band trying to release their debut would be one thing - but we are talkng about someone who is doing (or done) just fine for themselves in that department. So I think greedy is a word that comes to mind when thinking about Mr. Corgan. He can play all the $25 concerts he wants to (which won't last long by the way), that still doesn't make it ok to be a douche bag about everything else.

and yes, the Tarantula sleeve is for real.


Listening to you argue is funny. Your vocabulary consists of you calling someone else stupid and an idiot. Then you even call the band a steaming pile of crap and corgan a douchebag.

Some might consider this insightful or stimulating conversation. Others probably dismiss your commentary as juvenile and immature. You seem to lack the intellect it takes to debate like an adult.

betao
07-04-2007, 12:44 PM
hehe

yeah joining this board just to defend the steaming pile of crap known as SP 2007, is a bold and silly move.



also I wouldnt really call it a "bold" move, considering alot of people are already defending them.

hawkingvsreeve
07-04-2007, 01:42 PM
The fact that this is upsetting people so much is ridiculous.

First of all, these are BONUS tracks. Tracks that were never inteneded to be part of the record in the first place. You are complaining about being forced to purchase it somewhere other than an indie store, with more songs for a likely lower cost? Knock it off.

As far as leaving indie stores out, it's dollars and cents. They don't sell as many records as a Best Buy type store. The goal of selling a record is to make money. If you can make more money by adding some, again, BONUS content exclusive to the stores that SELL THE MOST RECORDS, well then that is just smart business.

C Dub, you should read Atlas Shrugged.

I'm not a fan of Billy Corgan for reasons completely unrelated to the selling/advertising campaign of his new album. It's his album, and therefore his choice.


Also, Nando, you are a beacon of light in this dark dark thread.

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 12:50 PM
Listening to you argue is funny. Your vocabulary consists of you calling someone else stupid and an idiot. Then you even call the band a steaming pile of crap and corgan a douchebag.

Some might consider this insightful or stimulating conversation. Others probably dismiss your commentary as juvenile and immature. You seem to lack the intellect it takes to debate like an adult.

Reading your holier than thou posts is funny to me.

Maybe I should chill on the name calling? That's something I can do.

I do more than just spit hatred of the SP and call people douchebags, you of all people on here know that. Well, now if I wanted to keep it "juvenille and immature", I'd say, fuck you Faxman - because you are basically doing the same thing by suggesting I'm not smart, well-read, or whatever.

I can debate whatever, however, you want me to, but there's not much difference in what I said and you pegging me as stupid. Isn't just as bad as me calling The Smashing Pumpkins a steaming pile, or whatever?

Am I missing something here? What's wrong with calling Corgan a douchebag about this record/reunion fiasco, when I kinda think he is?

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 12:52 PM
The fact that this is upsetting people so much is ridiculous.

C Dub, you should read Atlas Shrugged.



I'm not upset in the least bit, I think its shitty and I cried foul. That's all.

Oh? And why should I read that? I (kinda) know what the book is about and I hardly think I'm demonizing art in the form of speaking out about my disdain for The Smashing Pumpkins. To me, your reading tip suggests I offer nothing positive to this board which I'd have to disagree.

Or maybe you're suggesting I brush up with a course in Objectism or just basic Philosophy. Again, I don't know enough about Rand's books to offer up a rebuttal, maybe I should ask Brad Pitt?

(that last part was a joke, he has tried to get the movies of both Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged going)

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 12:55 PM
ADDITIONAL NOTE.

SMASHING PUMPKINS
Fall tour.

Tickets $40-85 (not including fees) They are $54 here in Ohio. Just thought I'd pass along... Oh and most of the venues are still rather small-ish, so if your a fan, act fast I guess.

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 12:58 PM
also I wouldnt really call it a "bold" move, considering alot of people are already defending them.

I agree, that was sarcastic.

saxomophone
07-05-2007, 02:21 PM
ADDITIONAL NOTE.

SMASHING PUMPKINS
Fall tour.

Tickets $40-85 (not including fees) They are $54 here in Ohio. Just thought I'd pass along... Oh and most of the venues are still rather small-ish, so if your a fan, act fast I guess.

Where are you getting this!? Most of their shows haven't gone on sale yet and prices haven't been listed yet.

mandelbaum
07-05-2007, 04:28 PM
I'm not upset in the least bit, I think its shitty and I cried foul. That's all.

Oh? And why should I read that? I (kinda) know what the book is about and I hardly think I'm demonizing art in the form of speaking out about my disdain for The Smashing Pumpkins. To me, your reading tip suggests I offer nothing positive to this board which I'd have to disagree.

Or maybe you're suggesting I brush up with a course in Objectism or just basic Philosophy. Again, I don't know enough about Rand's books to offer up a rebuttal, maybe I should ask Brad Pitt?

(that last part was a joke, he has tried to get the movies of both Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged going)

Atlas Shrugged is basically a lesson in economics.

And the only Smashing Pumpkins show listed on Ticketmaster so far has tickets of $35-$50. Not $40-$85 (of course some other cities could be in this range). As a fan, I don't mind the high prices since they are playing smaller venues. Plus I got the chance to see them in Asheville for $20.

As for saying that nothing "gets to you"...that is obviously wrong. I've never seen someone post so vehemenently against a band as much as you. Let it go.

mandelbaum
07-05-2007, 04:50 PM
Just for good measure, let's put to rest all of these misconceptions that Billy is all about money and nothing but Mr. Super Ego. Here are some examples of what the Pumpkins have done for their fans (and others) over the years. These are only things that I have first hand knowledge of, so I'm sure there are many others.

1) The Adore charity tour. SP donated all ticket proceeds AND bore all costs from this tour. In total, the band donated $2,686,973.59 to various charities around the country in 1998 (http://www.starla.org/chrono/1998.html). As for why:

"There were many reasons the band chose to launch a charity tour. Billy felt he didn't have the support systems that a lot of the charities are providing to the youth now. Billy needed and used "a real strength of character to get through a lot of difficult situations."

2) The band always had a thing for smaller venue shows even though they could easily sell out larger venues. I remember seeing them at St. Andrew Hall in '99, The Canopy Club in '00 (about 800 people), the Metro a few times, etc. Tickets were always $20-$25 and those are some of the greatest concerts I ever saw.

3) At an autograph signing in Champaign, IL back in early 2000, about 40-50 people had spent the night or gotten to the record store to get in line before 8AM (signing was in the afternoon). A few minutes after 8AM, Billy showed up at the record store and took every person in line to breakfast at IHOP. He allowed the fans to ask him questions for over 2 hours and gave them wristbands to get into the signing later that afternoon (and picked up the breakfast tab).

4) Before Machina came out, Billy invited some well known Smashing Pumpkins fans (mainly large bootleg collectors and those that maintained very informative websites at the time) from all across the country to come to the studio and listen to the new album and provide feedback.

5) After the first of two shows at the Aragon Ballroom in Chicago in 2000, Billy was backstage with some fans. He gave them some demo tapes that had never been out of his possession as well as copies of some original handwritten lyrics to Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness. When giving the tapes to the fan, Billy said "You guys would probably enjoy these more than me."

6) Machina II - This album was given away for free over the internet for the fans to enjoy.

So there you go. I don't care if you like Smashing Pumpkins' music or not, but I'm definitely tired of people badmouthing the band as money hungry and pompous. And for the record, I have not seen Billy call this a "reunion". Those are the media's words. I know how people love to get all riled up about that too. I'm not saying that Billy doesn't want to make money by coming back, but he certainly isn't the "evil" person that some of you try to make him out to be.

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 05:23 PM
Where are you getting this!? Most of their shows haven't gone on sale yet and prices haven't been listed yet.

they announced the Columbus show on the radio today. $45 minus ticketmaster

The Washington show is the one that ranges from 40-75

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 05:25 PM
fine - The Smashing Pumpkins are the greatest band ever.

whatever.

mandelbaum
07-05-2007, 05:39 PM
they announced the Columbus show on the radio today. $45 minus ticketmaster

The Washington show is the one that ranges from 40-75

The Washington show (if you are referring to the state of Washington) is listed on Ticketmaster as $35-$50. They are also playing Washington DC on Tuesday, but that's at a small venue (9:30 Club) and is only $30.

C DUB YA
07-05-2007, 07:04 PM
you can buy special gold circle seating for 75 to the washington state show - I am done arguing with you

mandelbaum
07-06-2007, 03:33 AM
you can buy special gold circle seating for 75 to the washington state show - I am done arguing with you

Yeah, it sucks when facts get in the way of your rhetoric doesn't it?

C DUB YA
07-06-2007, 06:39 AM
Yeah, it sucks when facts get in the way of your rhetoric doesn't it?

You have it all wrong. There was no rhetoric in my post about the ticket prices. In fact, the venue they are playing here just announced the show is an indoor set-up which means about 2500 instead of 5000 capacity. Again just saying to act fast if you want to go.

Go re-read the post if you must.

I wasn't pointing out the ticket prices as a haha, hey look at those high prices. It was just a FYI, because I still think the prices are very fair considering most of the venues are smaller than normal, and the EXTREMELY quick sell outs would prolly continue.

betao
07-06-2007, 08:14 AM
That show at the 9:30 Club is tempting... I love that place, saw Thievery Corporation do a full live show there back in December, it was awesome. But its too short of notice.

betao
07-06-2007, 08:16 AM
My god nevermind! The DC show at the 9:30 club is already sold out, and it went on sale at 10. For such short notice, damn!!

mandelbaum
07-06-2007, 11:21 AM
You have it all wrong. There was no rhetoric in my post about the ticket prices. In fact, the venue they are playing here just announced the show is an indoor set-up which means about 2500 instead of 5000 capacity. Again just saying to act fast if you want to go.

Go re-read the post if you must.

I wasn't pointing out the ticket prices as a haha, hey look at those high prices. It was just a FYI, because I still think the prices are very fair considering most of the venues are smaller than normal, and the EXTREMELY quick sell outs would prolly continue.

Ok John Kerry.

C DUB YA
07-06-2007, 02:47 PM
Ok John Kerry.

You need to re-read posts.

I never have ragged them about their ticket prices - even if I'm not going to go see them, (I don't care to), I posted that for everyone else as a heads up - my opinion of them as a band is the same. So the John Kerry comment is as outdated as it is incorrect.

C DUB YA
07-06-2007, 02:48 PM
My god nevermind! The DC show at the 9:30 club is already sold out, and it went on sale at 10. For such short notice, damn!!

I'm sure its going to be more of the same all over the country. Small venues galore.