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amyzzz
11-18-2008, 02:15 PM
We were just talking about kissing. Meh.

locachica73
11-18-2008, 02:15 PM
LOL yeah and gas has gone down significantly so he could still get the "special".

Mr. Dylanja
11-18-2008, 02:19 PM
If you're going to Tucson, Tommy, might as well go to Rocky Pointe, just sayin...

TommyboyUNM
11-18-2008, 02:19 PM
Tucson is a long way to drive for hookers, I assumed you wouldn't want to waste the money on gas if you were paying for sex too.


I'm flying and I have extra money to spend on hookers. So I thought "why not Tucson?".

LooseAtTheZoo
11-18-2008, 02:20 PM
Great philosophy

As Steve Coogan says, "Remember that no matter where you go in the world, wherever you are will always be better than Tucson, AZ."

locachica73
11-18-2008, 02:20 PM
New Years at Rocky Pointe sounds a little dangerous. And you don't really go through Tucson to get to Rocky Pointe do you? Isn't it further west? And he sure as shit doesnt want to go to Nogales. Unless its just to make a prescription/liquor run.

TommyboyUNM
11-18-2008, 02:21 PM
If you're going to Tucson, Tommy, might as well go to Rocky Pointe, just sayin...


I doubt Rocky Pointe will offer up the type of hospitality that Tucson will at this particular time.

locachica73
11-18-2008, 02:21 PM
yes but does tucson have a donkey show?

TommyboyUNM
11-18-2008, 02:23 PM
yes but does tucson have a donkey show?


Shit, you guys are bringing up all the good points. I'm sure it can be arranged?

LooseAtTheZoo
11-18-2008, 02:23 PM
New Years at Rocky Pointe sounds a little dangerous. And you don't really go through Tucson to get to Rocky Pointe do you? Isn't it further west? And he sure as shit doesnt want to go to Nogales. Unless its just to make a prescription/liquor run.

Especially considering how Mexico is going down in flames. The country's power structure is falling apart

faxman75
11-18-2008, 02:37 PM
This thread all of the sudden is kicking ass, donkey shows, hookers. prescription drugs, infadelity.....don't stop guys. Good stuff.

I know plenty of people who have gone to rocky point over new years and didn't get murdered or raped or anything. :) That's not a bad idea actually. Not murdering and raping but going to rocky point.

TommyboyUNM
11-18-2008, 02:43 PM
That's not a bad idea actually. Not murdering and raping but going to rocky point.



No no no it's the other way around. Unless you're into that sorta thing.

faxman75
11-18-2008, 03:01 PM
Fortunately i'm not into either so I wouldn't know which to do first. Hmm kinda makes me wonder about your priorities though. ;)

TommyboyUNM
11-18-2008, 03:09 PM
Fortunately i'm not into either so I wouldn't know which to do first. Hmm kinda makes me wonder about your priorities though. ;)


I think there would be a logical order to those acts. You don't have to have experience. Though with one of the ways there would be less fighting and screaming. I can make cases for both there faxy.

amyzzz
11-18-2008, 03:21 PM
You're just splitting hairs here. If you were a murderer and rapist, if you were THAT BAD already, would it really be so much worse to be a necrophiliac? I mean really.

Mr. Dylanja
11-18-2008, 03:24 PM
zzz's the more disturbing the discussion, the more comfortable you seem to be. I'll be sure to bring up mutilation at the dinner :D

amyzzz
11-18-2008, 03:27 PM
I can compartmentalize while eating very easily. I remember blithely mentioning diaper messes and doggy mishaps during many meals whilst my husband looked at me in disgust. Oops!

Mr. Dylanja
11-18-2008, 03:36 PM
Note to self: sit on the opposite end of zzz's

locachica73
11-18-2008, 03:39 PM
mutilization is ok but babie diapers bad... OK I am making notes.

amyzzz
11-18-2008, 03:39 PM
I won't say a word.

Mr. Dylanja
11-18-2008, 03:40 PM
*making hand gestures* Can you sign?

amyzzz
11-18-2008, 03:44 PM
I should learn.

faxman75
11-18-2008, 09:16 PM
Went to the Coyotes game tonight. Pretty fucking great. I love live hockey. By far my favorite live sport. Blackhawks won in a shootout! I think I got flashed by a damn fucking photo radar on the way home doing 78in a 55 probably. Fuck. No answering the door for me for a couple months. I rarely do anyway.

Going to see a friend perform in Kiss Me Kate the musical on Thursday night. I fucking hate musicals. 2 hours. Rough. The only musicals I liked would be Wonka (if you call it that) and Dancer in the Dark which is the most depressing musical ever but Bjork really nails it.

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 04:19 AM
awww, come on fax, cole porter!!! "why can't you behave" is something i sing all the time :p

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 04:51 AM
Went to the Coyotes game tonight. Pretty fucking great. I love live hockey. By far my favorite live sport. Blackhawks won in a shootout! I think I got flashed by a damn fucking photo radar on the way home doing 78in a 55 probably. Fuck. No answering the door for me for a couple months. I rarely do anyway.

Going to see a friend perform in Kiss Me Kate the musical on Thursday night. I fucking hate musicals. 2 hours. Rough. The only musicals I liked would be Wonka (if you call it that) and Dancer in the Dark which is the most depressing musical ever but Bjork really nails it.

Out of curiosity, what actual stage musicals have you seen? Because musical theater has been transformed in the past few years.

faxman75
11-19-2008, 06:03 AM
Transformed? Like does that mean they don't sing during musicals anymore? I had no idea there was some sweeping transformation of musicals. Enlighten me, maybe i'll go into this with a better attitude.

faxman75
11-19-2008, 06:08 AM
awww, come on fax, cole porter!!! "why can't you behave" is something i sing all the time :p

I had this idea that I would bring my ipod and whenever they broke into song I would just quietly turn on some NIN or something. I'm just wondering why I committed. It's not even actually a friend. It's more like a friends girlfriend. In an initiative to get out more, i've decided i'm going to support everyones projects. That went well on Friday night as I went to see my friends band The Hung Dynasty play at Casa Blancas. I hadn't seen him play in like 3 years and they actually rocked. Way heavier and darker sound than they used to have and they rocked metallica Seek and Destroy.

downingthief
11-19-2008, 07:14 AM
Went to the Coyotes game tonight. Pretty fucking great. I love live hockey. By far my favorite live sport. Blackhawks won in a shootout! I think I got flashed by a damn fucking photo radar on the way home doing 78in a 55 probably. Fuck. No answering the door for me for a couple months. I rarely do anyway.

Going to see a friend perform in Kiss Me Kate the musical on Thursday night. I fucking hate musicals. 2 hours. Rough. The only musicals I liked would be Wonka (if you call it that) and Dancer in the Dark which is the most depressing musical ever but Bjork really nails it.

Kiss Me Kate is a classic! One of the earliest memories I have as a kid is my Mom working the lights for that show in her theater group. I was about 4, I think.

faxman75
11-19-2008, 07:23 AM
I guess it's good i'm going in with low expectations. Maybe I will be surprised.

I just figured out the secret to photo radar which doesn't include avoiding the door. I'm thinking I may sell the secret on craigslist or ebay since I have verified proof that it works.

anything to make a buck.

locachica73
11-19-2008, 07:26 AM
The secret... don't speed. The other secret, don't pay the ticket until they actually show up to serve you, which in most cases won't happen. They have said there are others, like reflective covers on license plates but no proof that it works.

faxman75
11-19-2008, 07:31 AM
The reflective covers do work but my secret is none of the above. I don't mind telling a couple of you in Pm land. All I know is the ticket came, my ex wrote something on it and a few weeks later she recieved a dismissal in the mail.

locachica73
11-19-2008, 07:32 AM
Please PM me because as much time as I spend driving on these damn freeways its just a matter of time before I get flashed for the 4th time.

sin213
11-19-2008, 08:25 AM
someone should drive around with a paintgun and hit all the cameras over and over and over. just splat some paint across the lenses...

god i hate those things.

locachica73
11-19-2008, 08:33 AM
My kids are up for hire if you want to pay them to do it, they are good with spray paint. j/k. Although like I said before, once someone gets blinded by the flash at night and gets in a wreck, they should sue the city and then we will see how fast the cameras come down.

bug on your lip
11-19-2008, 10:26 AM
Superbug found in 40% of AZs grocery meat

C. diff has long been a common, usually benign bug associated with simple, easily treated diarrhea in older patients in hospitals and nursing homes. About 3 percent of healthy adults harbor the bacteria with no problem. But overuse of antibiotics has allowed the germ to develop resistance in recent years, doctors said, creating the toxic new type that stumps traditional treatment.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27774614

captncrzy
11-19-2008, 10:51 AM
Christ. Gross.

locachica73
11-19-2008, 10:52 AM
I am glad I rarely eat meat at this point. Just don't tell me it's found in beer and I will be happy.

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 11:55 AM
calicornia gave me some fucking parasite called giardia, so i think we're square.

locachica73
11-19-2008, 11:58 AM
So my sister is taking me to the Deerhunter show on the 29th, can anyone give me any insight as to what I should expect?

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 04:09 PM
Transformed? Like does that mean they don't sing during musicals anymore? I had no idea there was some sweeping transformation of musicals. Enlighten me, maybe i'll go into this with a better attitude.
I would be happy too!

For starters, most of this conversation will not apply to Kiss Me, Kate. It is a golden age musical that has not aged particularly well. Rather, I'd like to give you a general overview of the transformation of Broadway theater over the past several years, as seen through the Best Musical winners, which actually do a good job of delineating musical trends. (Keep in mind this bypasses the transformation that began under Michael Bennett, Steven Sondheim, and Andrew Lloyd Webber, all phases within themselves).

We'll start with Rent, 1996. This was the beginning of a counterculutral movement on Broadway, addressing tough subjects that before had either been glossed over or highly theatricalized for the stage. Rent has been hailed as the moment that rock came to Broadway, and this is true: it was the first original score that embraced rock standards, while still maintaining an operatic point of reference. However, there was a backlash to Rent that many saw as a cheapening of musical theater, resulting in a return to the grand scale with Titanic in 1997. Another result of Rents massive popularity was the packaging of the musical to a more youthful generation. Not since Cameron Mackintosh produced Webbers shows in the late 70's and 80's had there been such a conscious movement towards marketability on Broadway.

This trend continued with the Lion King in 1998, entertainment for the masses appealing to a wide range of audiences. Julie Taymor, however, lessened criticism of such a pop commodity by creating a truly creative aesthetic on stage, making mass art and remakes into an art form. Still, this provoked other, more derivative directors to presume they could take any piece of trash, slap a new gloss on it, and market it to an already existing market. The success of Lion King stagnated the creative market by creating the false assumption that you can have a surefire hit with a built-in audience (which was disproved by failures such as Imagine, Happy Feet, Happy Days, The Times They are a-Changin, etc...). This trend continues to this day because, unfortunately, these shows cost relatively little to put on and are sometimes enormously successful. Take the Producers, a remake that garnered the most Tony wins of any musical in history, or Mamma Mia, or Hairspray. Broadway fell into the remake rut that, while creating some fresh tunes, in no way encourage creativity or rebellion.

This changed with Avenue Q. It was the start of a post-Rent counter-cultural irreverence movement in musical theater, the idea you can be funny with a great score and still have emotional gravitas and earn widespread critical acclaim. Avenue Q, a sarcastic, caustic little musical triumphed over theatrical bombast such as Wicked. It set the stage for other successful musicals that do not fit the Broadway mold in the music or form of storytelling. However, it also inspired a self-referencing mood on Broadway that true creatives have been reacting against since, while other shows such as Legally Blonde, (Title of Show), and Spamalot have continued embracing this standard. Self-reference earned laughs, but it turned-off many people who were not involved with the theater community, resulting again in more musical remakes like the Color Purple, the Wedding Singer, Jersey Boys, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, or the Drowsy Chaperone.

Spring Awakening, Passing Strange, and In The Heights have been the culmination of this transformation in musical theater. All were highly successful in both the critical and commercial realm without sacrificing artistic integrity. They brought entirely fresh subject matter and musical styles to Broadway while also including nods to classics. And beyond these, Broadway is finally getting smart. Musicals like Young Frankenstein and Xanadu flop while genuinely artistic works such as Fela! or Lovemusik are successes. There is continuing to be a craving for and a focus on small scale, emotionally alive works, although unfortunately the majority of Broadway producers want to see there money on stage in spectacle. It is no mistake that the best new musicals of recent years have all been independently funded, not having to answer too business conglomerates who only see the green.

Here are some videos from the past few years that hopefully will illustrate my point about the change occurring on Broadway. Note especially the subject matter, emotion, general tone, and style of music. Watch if you can.

Avenue Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJCU4xf5IJE

Spring Awakening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcMxyIAQeW0

Passing Strange

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKaJdMjdvwk

In The Heights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Rd7Cpx-Ss

Enjoy! And I would love some feedback as well!

amyzzz
11-19-2008, 04:14 PM
I saw both Rent and The Lion King in London. The end.

captncrzy
11-19-2008, 04:22 PM
That's pretty cool. When we go to London, I want to check out a show...

amyzzz
11-19-2008, 04:25 PM
It's funny watching Brit actors do American accents.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 04:25 PM
Are the videos not working? I clicked Youtube button and pasted the links in between the brackets...

mountmccabe
11-19-2008, 04:37 PM
For youtube links you just want to use the text after the v=

Thus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p34oJdXNC70

becomes

(yt)p34oJdXNC70(/yt)

which, when I use brackets instead of parentheses becomes

p34oJdXNC70

mountmccabe
11-19-2008, 04:41 PM
So my sister is taking me to the Deerhunter show on the 29th, can anyone give me any insight as to what I should expect?

This is sort of what it will look like

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i269/mountmccabe/Shows/The%20Ponys%20and%20Deerhunter/c17768a0.jpg

Deerhunter's music moves between psychedelic pop to melodic drones. I bet they will be playing a lot of their latest album, Microcastle which is fairly amazing.

amyzzz
11-19-2008, 04:45 PM
That guy looks anorexic. I'm assuming he's the same guy from that one "best show" pic.

Mr. Dylanja
11-19-2008, 04:56 PM
I think he has AIDZ, like for reals!!

amyzzz
11-19-2008, 04:57 PM
Oh man. I feel so bad now.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 05:01 PM
Thanks zzz. Consider this an addendum to my list.

Avenue Q
PJCU4xf5IJE

Spring Awakening
gcMxyIAQeW0

In The Heights
B2Rd7Cpx-Ss

Passing Strange
jKaJdMjdvwk

Cheers!

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 05:42 PM
the change in musical theatre was a much slower progression than rent. there was a lot that led up to rent. i though cannot speak to much after rent, as that is when my days in the theatre started to end.

hair would more accurately be the first musical to bring rock to the stage, IMO, along with jesus christ superstar (*gags a little*). even grease. other shows such as blood brothers and even shows like falsettos had quite a bit of edge with songs like "four jews in a room bitching". i'd even argue that webber shows like starlight express, phantom and cats with their heavy synth were very modern for their time.

musicals have always pushed the boundaries i think more than people realize. even gershwin pushed the boundaries with porgy & bess and that was in the 30s.

i do have a soft spot for the old musicals. while kiss me kate is very dated, it is a very cute & fun show. i just like a lot of the music. and though a lot of it is dated, it is still quality music. "why can't you behave" could be gorgeously covered by someone like fiona apple today and still sound just as good. musicals are like my personal gospel in that it's what i grew up on, so i know not everyone is going to agree with me. but kiss me kate is of an era when songs from musicals were also popular hits (dancing in the dark, someone to watch over me, too darn hot, a number made famous by miss ella fitzgerald).

and while in many ways the style of music has changed, most of the good musicals are still just good stories with quality music. i think musicals aren't for all people, it is a very different medium than a lot of people are used to. it can also be more enjoyable when you know the people on stage or can tell that they are really pouring their heart out. remember these people are doing all of this live. but there is some real, quality modern stuff that most people can enjoy, like what has already been mentioned by gonshman. the shows with beautiful stories will always be more successful, IMO. i know i have yet to take someone to les miserables who didn't get all choked up when eponine and fantine sing "to love another person is to see the face of god".

just my two cents. i'm really out of it, so if that didn't make sense, sorry, lol. in london, i got to see jonathan pryce as fagan in oliver, les miserables, blood brothers (SO LUCKY to have seen this), grease (so freaking strange to see in LONDON) and i believe we saw julius ceasar (not a musical). we also saw some sort of agatha christie mystery that was just premiering at this really neat old theatre. i was on tour with a children's singing group, so naturally we saw as much as we could. i wish i could have afforded to see the buddy holly musical though, bummed i was too broke for that.

mountmccabe
11-19-2008, 05:43 PM
That guy looks anorexic. I'm assuming he's the same guy from that one "best show" pic.


I think he has AIDZ, like for reals!!

Marfan Syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marfan_syndrome).

faxman75
11-19-2008, 05:47 PM
Gonshman, I looked at your post and was intimidated by the length, I did say post right? Ok, so I started watching the clip from Avenue Q, liked it a lot. I then said to myself i'm gonna read this well thought out post and man thank you. Full of insight and very well written. I've never been to Broadway and have only seen a handful of plays. I have a love for stage art though i'm just really stubborn and not very patient when it comes to actually putting forth the effort of seeking out plays. I'm hoping tomorrow nights viewing will re instill that desire in me. Though Phoenix is far from broadway I really enjoy watching actors on stage in the live the setting.

It seems from your explanation Broadway was always sort of "old school" or stuck in their ways and now it's getting to be a rather exciting time as classic representations take on the new breed of musicals as they are much more in depth with plot, current events and social issues that would have been avoided previously. All the while the audience seems to be able to recognize when it's too much or forced.

Not sure if this is an accurate account of what you described but either way, thank you for sharing your insight. :)

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 05:52 PM
i think the progression in musical theatre from the "old" to the "new" is more subtle than it would seem. for example, gilbert & sullivan, to gershwin & porter, rogers & hammerstein, to sondheim <3 <3 <3, to webber/ mitchell & schonberg to johnathan larson and the more modern works. i would argue that there are very different traits in all these artists.

Mr. Dylanja
11-19-2008, 05:59 PM
If you guys keep up this Broadway talk, Bakersfield and I are going to start up the D-Back talk again...

mountmccabe
11-19-2008, 06:02 PM
I kind of want to see both Albee's Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Jarry's Ubu Roi this weekend.

I am more of a fan of non-musical theater.

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 06:11 PM
I kind of want to see both Albee's Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and Jarry's Ubu Roi this weekend.

I am more of a fan of non-musical theater.

i haven't seen virginia wolf live but man, that i gotta see.

i was always better at non-musical theatre myself, lol. i'm definitely more of an actor than a singer. it's funny how most theatre people are one or the other. most people that excel in musical theatre come off as fake in regular theatre. at least that's been my experience.

where is virginia wolf this weekend? my friend pj keeps trying to get me out to the theatre again.

mountmccabe
11-19-2008, 06:21 PM
Peoria. Theater Works (http://www.theaterworks.org/) is doing it at the Black Box State at the Peoria Center for the Performing Arts. Maybe let me know if you actually decide to go.

My take would be that musical theater is, in fact, more fakery, more stylized, more artistic license. People don't actually sing like that in really. There's less dancing, less singing and more standing there trying to act natural.

Depends on the piece, of course.

chairmenmeow47
11-19-2008, 06:24 PM
awwww, theatre works was my freaking second home when it was at the barn on 67th and thunderbird!!! i remember spending the night on the house of blue leaves set when the stupid swift trucking people were threatening to put padlocks on the place. i've only been to the new theatre once for the 10th anniversary of the founder's death, but i was happy to see they used his plans for construction.

$10 for a student ticket ain't bad. i have to drop my friend off in glendale sunday morning too, i might just try to make the 2pm show if i'm feeling better. i'll let you know :)

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 07:27 PM
i think the progression in musical theatre from the "old" to the "new" is more subtle than it would seem. for example, gilbert & sullivan, to gershwin & porter, rogers & hammerstein, to sondheim <3 <3 <3, to webber/ mitchell & schonberg to johnathan larson and the more modern works. i would argue that there are very different traits in all these artists.

I agree with all of this. I could go much more in depth than my previous post to concern all eras.

As for Hair being the first rock musical, that can always be disputed. Technically, Broadway has been "saved" by rock several times, Rent just had the greatest impact on what theater is today. Hair was an orthodox musical with a relatively weak score that, in my opinion, succeeded partially as a result of the rebellion occurring in the age it premiered. But that is a completely different argument. Though, if you want to claim Grease brought rock to stage, than Bye Bye Birdie would actually be its predecessor.

I completely agree with your point about the subtleties of change, though. And I love some of the classics which have aged perfectly, which I do not think Kiss Me Kate has (such as Gypsy, Company, Cabaret, I Can Get it for you Wholesale, South Pacific, How to Succeed, Carousel, it goes on and on.

If you really want to get nitpicky, and just for arguments sake delineate Old Broadway and New Broadway. the splitting point is Promises, Promises.

I would love to talk musicals some more.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-19-2008, 07:30 PM
Peoria. Theater Works (http://www.theaterworks.org/) is doing it at the Black Box State at the Peoria Center for the Performing Arts. Maybe let me know if you actually decide to go.

My take would be that musical theater is, in fact, more fakery, more stylized, more artistic license. People don't actually sing like that in really. There's less dancing, less singing and more standing there trying to act natural.

Depends on the piece, of course.

Nice caveat at the end. Some pieces definitely call for American Idol theatrics and emotions. Avoid those.

Things like Legally Blonde the Musical can never have the impact on you that a truly great musical can have.

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 02:37 AM
I just posted this in the music form. I don't know if anyone else here likes Snow Patrol but...
FREE!

PATROL ANNOUNCE US SHOWS FOR DECEMBER!

As an early Christmas surprise Snow Patrol will be heading to the US for a whistle-stop tour in just two weeks time. The band will play four Christmas radio shows, as well as teaming up with ShockHound.com for a trio of FREE shows.

Kicking off in New York on December 1st the band will play the first of their radio shows at the Bowery Ballroom for WRXP, followed by two shows alongside Death Cab For Cutie at the 104 the X-mas Bash in Barton Rouge and 102.1’s How the Edge Stole Christmas at the Nokia Theatre at Grand Prairie, Dallas. The final radio show sees the Patrol play the KBCO Holiday Concert Series at the Gothic Theatre. Click HERE for full ticket information.

The final three shows of the tour see SP team up with All-in-One music site ShockHound.com for a set of FREE shows. The band will make stops in Phoenix, Las Vegas and San Diego, with tickets available freely to the public from November 21st.

For full information, and details on how to get tickets for the free shows, log on to www.shockhound.com.

The tour dates are:

Dec 1st - WRXP, Bowery Ballroom, New York, NY
Dec 3rd - KNXX 104 the Xmas Bash, Baton Rouge River Center, LA
Dec 4th - KDGE 102.1 How the Edge Stole Christmas, Nokia Theatre, Grand Prairie, Dallas, TX
Dec 7th - KBCO 97.3 The KBCO Holiday Concert Series, Gothic Theatre, Denver, CO
Dec 9th - The Clubhouse, Tempe, AZ (with Shockhound.com)
Dec 10th - Wasted Space @ The Hard Rock, Las vegas, NV (with Shockhound.com)
Dec 13th - House of Blues, San Diego, CA (with Shockhound.com)

I have to say this seriously gets my panties in a really happy bunch! YAY!!!

LooseAtTheZoo
11-20-2008, 05:07 AM
Nice find on the Snow Patrol shows, zzz. I'm amazed they came to Phoenix

SAT scores today! Woo-hoo!

locachica73
11-20-2008, 06:25 AM
This is sort of what it will look like

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i269/mountmccabe/Shows/The%20Ponys%20and%20Deerhunter/c17768a0.jpg

Deerhunter's music moves between psychedelic pop to melodic drones. I bet they will be playing a lot of their latest album, Microcastle which is fairly amazing.

Thank you. I am looking forward to it, my sister loves introducing me to new music.

TomAz
11-20-2008, 07:00 AM
I wish they weren't playing modified.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 07:08 AM
I agree with all of this. I could go much more in depth than my previous post to concern all eras.

As for Hair being the first rock musical, that can always be disputed. Technically, Broadway has been "saved" by rock several times, Rent just had the greatest impact on what theater is today. Hair was an orthodox musical with a relatively weak score that, in my opinion, succeeded partially as a result of the rebellion occurring in the age it premiered. But that is a completely different argument. Though, if you want to claim Grease brought rock to stage, than Bye Bye Birdie would actually be its predecessor.

I completely agree with your point about the subtleties of change, though. And I love some of the classics which have aged perfectly, which I do not think Kiss Me Kate has (such as Gypsy, Company, Cabaret, I Can Get it for you Wholesale, South Pacific, How to Succeed, Carousel, it goes on and on.

If you really want to get nitpicky, and just for arguments sake delineate Old Broadway and New Broadway. the splitting point is Promises, Promises.

I would love to talk musicals some more.

Don't forget about the impact that West Side Story had, either (still one of my faves).

Cabaret is pure genius. Just recently watched the movie version, and it holds up extremely well. An amazing work.
My first ever stage performance was singing in a Cabaret chorus for the Phoenix Children's Little Theater. That was the beginning of my stage addiction. :)

TomAz
11-20-2008, 07:17 AM
I would love to talk musicals some more.

and then fashion and interior design.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 07:18 AM
I wish they weren't playing modified.

What's wrong with Modified?

faxman75
11-20-2008, 07:19 AM
Janet Napolitano might run homeland security. Wasn't there talk of possibly eliminating that office after it was deemed worthless and Tom Ridge stepped down?

TomAz
11-20-2008, 07:23 AM
the change in musical theatre was a much slower progression than rent. there was a lot that led up to rent. i though cannot speak to much after rent, as that is when my days in the theatre started to end.

hair would more accurately be the first musical to bring rock to the stage, IMO, along with jesus christ superstar (*gags a little*). even grease. other shows such as blood brothers and even shows like falsettos had quite a bit of edge with songs like "four jews in a room bitching". i'd even argue that webber shows like starlight express, phantom and cats with their heavy synth were very modern for their time.

musicals have always pushed the boundaries i think more than people realize. even gershwin pushed the boundaries with porgy & bess and that was in the 30s.

i do have a soft spot for the old musicals. while kiss me kate is very dated, it is a very cute & fun show. i just like a lot of the music. and though a lot of it is dated, it is still quality music. "why can't you behave" could be gorgeously covered by someone like fiona apple today and still sound just as good. musicals are like my personal gospel in that it's what i grew up on, so i know not everyone is going to agree with me. but kiss me kate is of an era when songs from musicals were also popular hits (dancing in the dark, someone to watch over me, too darn hot, a number made famous by miss ella fitzgerald).

and while in many ways the style of music has changed, most of the good musicals are still just good stories with quality music. i think musicals aren't for all people, it is a very different medium than a lot of people are used to. it can also be more enjoyable when you know the people on stage or can tell that they are really pouring their heart out. remember these people are doing all of this live. but there is some real, quality modern stuff that most people can enjoy, like what has already been mentioned by gonshman. the shows with beautiful stories will always be more successful, IMO. i know i have yet to take someone to les miserables who didn't get all choked up when eponine and fantine sing "to love another person is to see the face of god".

just my two cents. i'm really out of it, so if that didn't make sense, sorry, lol. in london, i got to see jonathan pryce as fagan in oliver, les miserables, blood brothers (SO LUCKY to have seen this), grease (so freaking strange to see in LONDON) and i believe we saw julius ceasar (not a musical). we also saw some sort of agatha christie mystery that was just premiering at this really neat old theatre. i was on tour with a children's singing group, so naturally we saw as much as we could. i wish i could have afforded to see the buddy holly musical though, bummed i was too broke for that.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30824

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 08:20 AM
What's wrong with Modified?
I would venture to guess...no alcohol.

TomAz
11-20-2008, 08:36 AM
I would venture to guess...no alcohol.

the more complete picture is, hanging out with a bunch of snotnosed 22 year olds with smarmy attitudes, without refuge to beer, is more than I can tolerate. Regardless of how good the band is.

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 08:39 AM
Hey Tom

TomAz
11-20-2008, 08:42 AM
yes?

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 08:45 AM
Still haven't reached 14,000 yet, have you....

TomAz
11-20-2008, 08:57 AM
i been busy.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 09:27 AM
Ignorant Tool fans (myself included) and Whino's unite!! My boy MJK, is on the cover of this weeks NT, check it out!

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 09:35 AM
I wish I could see ads online so I don't have to go pick up a damn New Times. I'm agonizing over the Franz Ferdinand tour, and I wanna know if there's a Phx date in there.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 09:40 AM
Sorry zzzizzzles, I don't see any FF dates in the Upcoming Shows area. I am excited to see George Clinton coming back to town Jan. 7th tho, I HIGHLY suggest seeing him to anyone that hasn't!!

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 09:41 AM
No, you're doing it wrong. You have to check through the ENTIRE THING and look at all the ads, sonny boy.

edit: although on second thought, FF is big enough to show up in upcoming shows prolly

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 09:43 AM
And thank you dylz.

chairmenmeow47
11-20-2008, 11:03 AM
I agree with all of this. I could go much more in depth than my previous post to concern all eras.

As for Hair being the first rock musical, that can always be disputed. Technically, Broadway has been "saved" by rock several times, Rent just had the greatest impact on what theater is today. Hair was an orthodox musical with a relatively weak score that, in my opinion, succeeded partially as a result of the rebellion occurring in the age it premiered. But that is a completely different argument. Though, if you want to claim Grease brought rock to stage, than Bye Bye Birdie would actually be its predecessor.

I completely agree with your point about the subtleties of change, though. And I love some of the classics which have aged perfectly, which I do not think Kiss Me Kate has (such as Gypsy, Company, Cabaret, I Can Get it for you Wholesale, South Pacific, How to Succeed, Carousel, it goes on and on.

If you really want to get nitpicky, and just for arguments sake delineate Old Broadway and New Broadway. the splitting point is Promises, Promises.

I would love to talk musicals some more.

many of those shows have aged perfectly, but are still very dated, like kiss me kate. which is ok, they represent their time. just like hair. i definitely wasn't trying to nitpick, but rather point out that the change in musical theatre, for the most part, has been a slow progression. great additions though sean with cabaret and as much as i hate to admit it, west side story. my god, i forget that sondheim actually did they lyrics. i think he broke way more ground with sweeney todd though, i mean, half the audience walked out of the premiere.

i would still argue that hair was the first successful rock musical as it not only had rock music, like grease and yes, bye bye birdie (which i love WAY more than grease), but hair, like rent, touches on the serious issues of that generation and was quite shocking. it is also a wonderful set of music, i've been listening a lot recently, so we'll just have to disagree on that, lol. but it is also a bit dated based on the subject matter, just like rent is today. i'm sorry, but the fear of the millenium, the fear of aids and the desire to do absolutely nothing for a living is very 80s/90s and does not represent today's times.

don't get me wrong, it's still a fun show, but it is still just a representation of the time, like hair. and rent is just a modern adaptation of la boheme. bohemia and rebellion are consistent themes throughout musical theatre, from hair to rent. rent didn't exactly break ground in that sense, it was just the first time we really heard that voice of a generation. i would agree though that it opened the way for other, similar musicals to take the stage with success. hair also did something similar with jesus christ superstar, and even godspell to a degree, but that has more to do with stage production than score.

great thoughts, gonshman :)

and i love the onion, tom :)

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 11:04 AM
Wait a minute here...did you just dismiss West Side Story? :nono

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 11:07 AM
I like you guys and girls but can you please create a Broadway/Play thread? Pleez?

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 11:10 AM
When you stick ALL your sports shit in the sports thread. :)

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 11:13 AM
We have zzz's, we have!!

chairmenmeow47
11-20-2008, 11:14 AM
this is a music website and it isn't really a discussion that's going to be going on forever so i'm not moving anything. christ, there is some pointless shit on here and the one time people actually get into a discussion about MUSIC in this thread, someone wants it moved?!

and yes, i dismissed west side story, lol. i feel pretty?!?!?!

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 11:17 AM
That's my absolute favorite musical ever, Ivy! My god the music in that is amazing.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 11:17 AM
Retract the claws Ivysaur, I'm sorry, please by all means continue on...

locachica73
11-20-2008, 11:21 AM
OK are Broadway shows the same as Musicals? If so I will say that I went to NYC and seen Miss Saigon on Broadway the year it closed. It was the mose awesome experience ever. I cried so damn hard but it was a good cry, amazing shit.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 11:44 AM
OK are Broadway shows the same as Musicals? If so I will say that I went to NYC and seen Miss Saigon on Broadway the year it closed. It was the mose awesome experience ever. I cried so damn hard but it was a good cry, amazing shit.

Yes.

I saw Miss Saigon here a few years back. To quote zzz, I was "meh".

Now, Les Miz...that is truly a sight to behold.

TomAz
11-20-2008, 11:45 AM
hey Mr D

Suns - Lakers tonight.

I hope Shaq swats kobe to the 3rd row.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 11:49 AM
See I was planning on taking tonight off from the bar but now I feel I have to go to root for my team and watch Kobe get swatted to the 3rd row.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 11:52 AM
hey Mr D

Suns - Lakers tonight.

I hope Shaq swats kobe to the 3rd row.

I MAY be courtside. If I am, I will wave to y'alls.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 11:54 AM
I MAY be courtside. If I am, I will wave to y'alls.


What?!? How might you pull that off?

I've lived in this town my whole life and my biggest connection is the New Times...


Tom, thanks for the thread revival.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 11:56 AM
I had a freind try to sell me tickets for $65 a piece, not courtside but decent seats, but I am poor. :(

Although I will admit, I have been to several games and I prefer to hang at the bar with the real fans, most of the people at the game are networking and not even paying attention.

mountmccabe
11-20-2008, 11:58 AM
I wish they weren't playing modified.

Tom, come anyway. I will buy you a Boddington's at Lost Leaf around the corner.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 11:59 AM
Yes.

I saw Miss Saigon here a few years back. To quote zzz, I was "meh".

Now, Les Miz...that is truly a sight to behold.

Miss Saigon was the first production I had ever seen. It was just so intense. And being a new mother at the time the ending really got to me. We walked back from the theatre to our hotel and I damn near cried all the way. People there thought I was insane... or more insane then the rest of the people on the street.

Since then I have seen a few more shows, but Miss Saigon just always sticks out in my head. I wanted to see Phantom but my sister and father had already seen that... I also wanted to see Jeckyl and Hyde when Sebastian Bach played in it, I use to have the biggest crush on that guy when he was in Skid Row.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 12:05 PM
What?!? How might you pull that off?

I've lived in this town my whole life and my biggest connection is the New Times...


Tom, thanks for the thread revival.

I cannot reveal my sources. :)

It's a long shot, but a long shot is better than no shot.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 12:05 PM
Tom, come anyway. I will buy you a Boddington's at Lost Leaf around the corner.

I am going to try and make this.

chairmenmeow47
11-20-2008, 12:19 PM
sorry amy, i think it's painfully cheesy. but i understand the nostalgia for a lot of people with it. and i think my love for miss saigon comes with my painful desire to play ellen. and they have a fucking helicopter on the stage!!! but yes, les miz wins at musicals.

and i really couldn't care less if people want to talk about sports :)

locachica73
11-20-2008, 12:22 PM
The helicopter blew me the fuck away. Actually feeling the wind from it while sitting inside. AMAZING

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Cheezy? We ARE talking about musicals here, are we not? Someone give me a musical that is NOT cheezy.

faxman75
11-20-2008, 12:28 PM
Dancer in the Dark.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 12:33 PM
the title alone sounds a little cheezy. i seen Swing, it wasn't cheezy but it wasn't a show really, just a bunch of dancing. Very cool dancing though. Lion King was kinda cheezy though.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 12:35 PM
Cheezy? We ARE talking about musicals here, are we not? Someone give me a musical that is NOT cheezy.


I always thought musicals were more fruity than cheezy.

sbessiso
11-20-2008, 12:36 PM
Theyre a delicious combination of both. Ever so yummy and damn nutritious too

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 12:36 PM
Dancer in the Dark.It has its cheezy moments.

faxman75
11-20-2008, 12:39 PM
Dancer in the Dark is not cheesy, come on people, you're stretching.

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 12:41 PM
Well, that one guy she sings a duet with is cheezy. And he can't sing.

TomAz
11-20-2008, 12:42 PM
See I was planning on taking tonight off from the bar but now I feel I have to go to root for my team and watch Kobe get swatted to the 3rd row.

I don't understand. You work at a bar at US Airways Center?


I MAY be courtside. If I am, I will wave to y'alls.

Color me jealous.


I had a freind try to sell me tickets for $65 a piece, not courtside but decent seats, but I am poor. :(



Ask your friend if the tickets are still for sale.


Tom, come anyway. I will buy you a Boddington's at Lost Leaf around the corner.


I am going to try and make this.

Well now, I may just consider this.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 12:43 PM
I don't understand. You work at a bar at US Airways Center?

LocaLexusClub

locachica73
11-20-2008, 12:45 PM
I don't understand. You work at a bar at US Airways Center?

Ask your friend if the tickets are still for sale.


No but wouldn't that be cool... I meant that I wasn't going to go up to my local bar since I was there last night for poker. But my tv at home sucks, one of the tubes is out so the screen is dark, its hard to watch basketball on there because half the time I can't tell who has the ball.

And she already sent out an email saying she had sold them. Sorry, I probably should have mentioned it yesterday when she sent out the email.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 12:46 PM
LocaLexusClub

I prefer LocaMota... that nickname makes me look like I will come out and fix your flat tire.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 01:12 PM
I know which nickname you prefer, Localush :)

TommyboyUNM
11-20-2008, 01:29 PM
I prefer LocaMota... that nickname makes me look like I will come out and fix your flat tire.


Or you'll come out and sell me a dime bag.

downingthief
11-20-2008, 02:01 PM
Not very good news for all of you Mesa people:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/mesa/articles/2008/11/20/20081120mr-mesabudget1120-ON.html

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 02:08 PM
At least I don't bother going to the library anymore. It's never open when I want to go anyway. *sigh*

LooseAtTheZoo
11-20-2008, 02:19 PM
Whoever said they were lucky to see Blood Brothers, you're gonna get another shot. Nearly Naked theater is putting it on in the spring.

Miss Saigon never worked for me only because it was so similar to Les Mis. Les Mis was my first real musical (I have since seen it, probably 7 or 8 times) and stuff like the similar chord progressions from "On My Own" and "Come to Me" that transfer over to Miss Saigon just bug me. And Schoenberg and Boublil really struck out on The Pirate Queen.

The West Side Story movie remains better than the stage show, and it doesn't show off Sondheims true lyrical talents.

ZZZ, non-cheesy musicals - Contact, Assassins, Sweeney Todd, Company, Evita, Gypsy, Tick Tick Boom, Spring Awakening, LoveMusik, etc, etc... You get the point.

amyzzz
11-20-2008, 02:31 PM
I love Gypsy.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 02:33 PM
Ivy, isn't Pac D your buddy? He's pictured in the Needle Exchange section of NT.

chairmenmeow47
11-20-2008, 02:44 PM
pac d is my buddy! i'll have to check that out!!! randy had to get through pac d and my friend amy before he could take me home the weekend of edc, lol.

and gonshman, i meant to see blood brothers in london at a professional theatre in 1995. i did hear that nearly naked is doing it, and that's awesome, but i meant that i was lucky to see the professional production in london since it's a very british show. i've only seen one show at nearly naked (review for reefer madness earlier in the thread). they were pretty cool, but there is absolutely no reason those people needed mics. i'd argue that the old barn (theatre works, original location) had about the same size and similar acoustics and we'd have been laughed at for using mics. i don't get it.

TomAz
11-20-2008, 02:49 PM
so. the suns. woohoo.

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 02:53 PM
Touche Tom, touche...

LooseAtTheZoo
11-20-2008, 03:02 PM
pac d is my buddy! i'll have to check that out!!! randy had to get through pac d and my friend amy before he could take me home the weekend of edc, lol.

and gonshman, i meant to see blood brothers in london at a professional theatre in 1995. i did hear that nearly naked is doing it, and that's awesome, but i meant that i was lucky to see the professional production in london since it's a very british show. i've only seen one show at nearly naked (review for reefer madness earlier in the thread). they were pretty cool, but there is absolutely no reason those people needed mics. i'd argue that the old barn (theatre works, original location) had about the same size and similar acoustics and we'd have been laughed at for using mics. i don't get it.

The one guy (Jimmy) only had a mike so they could give the impression he was actually singing.

chairmenmeow47
11-20-2008, 03:04 PM
The one guy (Jimmy) only had a mike so they could give the impression he was actually singing.

are you sure it was just one guy? my friend and i both noticed more than that. he definitely blew.

locachica73
11-20-2008, 03:08 PM
I know which nickname you prefer, Localush :)

Hey, it apparently fits. Although I still stick with the fact that I am a social drinker and a social butterfly therefore I am a social butterfly drinker.


Or you'll come out and sell me a dime bag.

Well it has been known to happen, once or twice.

GO SUNS!!!

Mr. Dylanja
11-20-2008, 08:27 PM
Well the way things look now, I'd rather talk about musicals tomorrow instead of the Suns:(

locachica73
11-20-2008, 08:29 PM
:( yes this is not looking good for us. glad i didn't go to the bar to watch this shit.

bakersfield
11-20-2008, 08:49 PM
Suns look like crap. They really bore me this year.
I was glad to see D'Antoni go, but I should have been careful what I wished for...

LC...good moves on the Fantasy Basketball front!

Somewhat Damaged
11-20-2008, 09:02 PM
randy had to get through pac d and my friend amy before he could take me home the weekend of edc, lol.

For some reason, this conjures images of Bruce Lee making his way through the various levels of villains (including Kareem Abdul-Jabbar!) en route to the final confrontation in Enter the Dragon.

happypappy420
11-20-2008, 09:35 PM
ha, ha. poor phil.....


Traffic camera snaps shot of Phoenix mayor
Lauren Kawam - Nov. 20, 2008 10:07 PM The Arizona Republic


The Valley's growing number of traffic-enforcement cameras have nabbed a celebrity violator: Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon.

Gordon said he failed in August to stop completely at a red light before turning right at the intersection of 7th Street and Northern Avenue in north Phoenix.

He said he remembered the light flashing from the camera, and days after the incident, he was notified by mail of his traffic violation.

He also said that he would most likely serve through a live online traffic school session.

"I have definitely learned my lesson," Gordon said.

The mayor also said to avoid a conflict of interest between the city he serves and the city he was cited in, the case was moved to a Scottsdale court.

locachica73
11-21-2008, 06:11 AM
Suns look like crap. They really bore me this year.
I was glad to see D'Antoni go, but I should have been careful what I wished for...

LC...good moves on the Fantasy Basketball front!

We will see, I was doing pretty good while ignorning my team, now that I made some changes I will probably lose.

kroqken
11-21-2008, 06:33 AM
I would like Phoenix for the weather. Hot and dry is heavenly.

chairmenmeow47
11-21-2008, 12:31 PM
god i hate the stupid photo radar. hey, let's blind someone with light who's traveling too fast, BRILLIANT!

captncrzy
11-21-2008, 12:35 PM
I love driving on the freeway at night now; there's always lights flashing ahead of me. Good reminder to slow down.

faxman75
11-21-2008, 12:40 PM
god i hate the stupid photo radar. hey, let's blind someone with light who's traveling too fast, BRILLIANT!

that's exactly how I knew it was me that got flashed. I was like WTF then of course cursing and being pissed the rest of the way home.

chairmenmeow47
11-21-2008, 12:42 PM
i love all the signs too about "photo enforcement", umm, thanks, i'll just slowdown.

i noticed last weekend the cameras on the 101 east side heading north and then heading west were turned off, that was AWESOME!


For some reason, this conjures images of Bruce Lee making his way through the various levels of villains (including Kareem Abdul-Jabbar!) en route to the final confrontation in Enter the Dragon.

LOL, it was kinda like that actually. my friend gordon had been telling D and my girlfriend to watch out for "that guy" and make sure he was ok. then amy said she wanted a copy of his drivers license and she was going to take a picture of it to get it. on the way out, randy and i were texting and i told him to prepare for intense interrogation. he jokingly asked if he should bring a copy of his ID and i was like "actually, yes!" that really earned him points with my girlfriend, lol. it was just funny, he must have wondered who the hell i thought i was!

Mr. Dylanja
11-21-2008, 12:45 PM
Fax, :thu or :nono?

bakersfield
11-21-2008, 08:48 PM
Have friends coming in town soon...let me hear recommendations of places to eat & drink at a moderate price in Central PHX.
Let's say, north of the 10, b/w 19th Ave & 16th St.

TomAz
11-21-2008, 08:49 PM
george & dragon

bakersfield
11-21-2008, 08:53 PM
george & dragon

I have driven by countless times (I live up in Arrowhead Ranch) & have wondered about it.

Good food & atmosphere??

TomAz
11-21-2008, 09:03 PM
well it's british, and full of expat brits, so the atmosphere is pretty lame.

(that was for stef and chris)


Good beer, decent food, very casual. love their wings.

chairmenmeow47
11-22-2008, 06:11 AM
MACAYOS!!! fuck the haters :)

and if anyone is bored tonight, check out illumination (http://stimulateproductions.net/images/illumination_back.jpg). i'm too broke and not feeling well to go, but my friend amy (she was at the george & dragon that one time) is showing some art, along with other people, check it out!!!

faxman75
11-22-2008, 06:18 AM
Fax, :thu or :nono?

:thu

:)

captncrzy
11-22-2008, 08:03 AM
G&D has the best fish and chips evar. Tons of good beers on draft.

Also, there's Los Dos Molinos on 11th St and Washington. Killer mexican food.


For tourists, you can always hit up Cooperstown.

sin213
11-22-2008, 08:19 AM
los dos is excellent if you want mexican food. i've gone to the one on the east side over on alma school between main and broadway for about 10 years now. beware...their salsa is H O T! mmm...now i want to go there today. :)

they do have the other location in central phx too.

faxman75
11-22-2008, 08:40 AM
I love the one in south central phoenix. I went to the one on Washington once and was disappointed but that could have just been an off day. Los Dos is really good especially if you like spicy. I need to go there again some day.

I support all three of Capt. Crazy's suggestions. Cooperstown has good bar food.

PC-2 Violence
11-22-2008, 09:19 AM
Have friends coming in town soon...let me hear recommendations of places to eat & drink at a moderate price in Central PHX.
Let's say, north of the 10, b/w 19th Ave & 16th St.

Lux / Pane Bianco

PC-2 Violence
11-22-2008, 09:20 AM
I would like Phoenix for the weather. Hot and dry is heavenly.

Last night was beautiful, but when the seasons never really change, it makes it hard to get into the holidays.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-22-2008, 11:27 AM
For real, authentic Mexican food, in the style from Mexico City, take your friend to Reyes de Las Tortas. Best burrito you will ever have for 5 bucks, and gigantic tortas that are 8 bucks or less.

captncrzy
11-22-2008, 02:12 PM
There's also Postino's in the Arcadia district if they are wine drinkers. It's wine and little dishes-best bruchetta ever. postinoswinecafe.com

TomAz
11-22-2008, 02:49 PM
For real, authentic Mexican food, in the style from Mexico City, take your friend to Reyes de Las Tortas. Best burrito you will ever have for 5 bucks, and gigantic tortas that are 8 bucks or less.

when I was in Mexico City a few years ago I didn't see a single burrito. Not one.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-22-2008, 03:49 PM
when I was in Mexico City a few years ago I didn't see a single burrito. Not one.

http://www.azcentral.com/ent/dining/articles/2007/09/11/20070911losreyes.html

And there are "burritos," or the Mexican equivalent, all over Mexico City. My friend who was born and raised there still raves about the street stands. They're just different kinds, not slathered with beens and cheese and sour cream, etc..

bakersfield
11-22-2008, 09:24 PM
For real, authentic Mexican food, in the style from Mexico City, take your friend to Reyes de Las Tortas. Best burrito you will ever have for 5 bucks, and gigantic tortas that are 8 bucks or less.

I have been reading about that place. Sounds great!

bakersfield
11-22-2008, 09:32 PM
There's also Postino's in the Arcadia district if they are wine drinkers. It's wine and little dishes-best bruchetta ever. postinoswinecafe.com

I am drinking a bottle of wine now. But these are my buddies I grew up with in Bakersfield. We have been drinking a ton of beer together since the 80's.
They are flying in on a Friday night in December for Cards - Vikings game.
Usually when they come in, we spend a lot of time downtown for Suns/Dbacks. So we usually hit Cooperstown, Tom's tavern, Majerle's, etc. This time I thought it would be good to stop somewhere north of downtown, on our way up to my place in Arrowhead.
George & Dragon sounds like their style.

locachica73
11-23-2008, 07:57 AM
Have friends coming in town soon...let me hear recommendations of places to eat & drink at a moderate price in Central PHX.
Let's say, north of the 10, b/w 19th Ave & 16th St.

Richardsons at 16th Street and Bethany Home is always excellent. They have great house prickly pair margaritas, and awesome food, a little high priced but well worth it. There is also a great italian place at 16th and Morton called tutu santis. OK I just made myself hungry.

downingthief
11-23-2008, 08:39 AM
Richardsons at 16th Street and Bethany Home is always excellent. They have great house prickly pair margaritas, and awesome food, a little high priced but well worth it. There is also a great italian place at 16th and Morton called tutu santis. OK I just made myself hungry.

I strongly concur with Richardson's. Best red sauce in town. Try the garlic plate, too.

mountmccabe
11-23-2008, 08:40 AM
Whoah. I just realized that the Sonora Brewhouse at 3rd St and Camelback is not affiliated with Sonoran Brewing Company. At any rate they still have great, locally brewed beers on tap and a really good menu.

downingthief
11-23-2008, 08:46 AM
We finally went to Los Sombreros last night. It is on Scottsdale, South of Thomas.
I never thought much of it, because let's face it...Los Sombreros is an awful name. It screams "same old Mexican food". Boy, was I wrong!

It is more of a Mexico City style (more seafood, pork, etc). Bit higher end, but not too over priced (my meal was $17). And, you get a mess of food. I had the Chillaquiles con camarones. Basically, shrimp and tortillas in a green sauce with cheese. Got it with the black beans and rice. It was perfection.

You all need to put this one your "must go" list immediately. :)

chairmenmeow47
11-23-2008, 10:37 AM
there's a los dos molinos by my house too. it's good, but FUCKING spicy.

captncrzy
11-23-2008, 10:51 AM
Whoah. I just realized that the Sonora Brewhouse at 3rd St and Camelback is not affiliated with Sonoran Brewing Company. At any rate they still have great, locally brewed beers on tap and a really good menu.

I've eaten there before; good beers and food. Weird atmosphere though. When we were there, it was really quiet. Maybe it was just the night we were there.

locachica73
11-23-2008, 10:54 AM
I strongly concur with Richardson's. Best red sauce in town. Try the garlic plate, too.

The bacon wrapped shrimp are fucking fantastic too. There is a spicey creamy pasta that I get there with the bacon wrapped shrimp on top. It is damn near better than.... nevermind.


Whoah. I just realized that the Sonora Brewhouse at 3rd St and Camelback is not affiliated with Sonoran Brewing Company. At any rate they still have great, locally brewed beers on tap and a really good menu.

In the fall winter months they have an awesome vanilla porter.

westcoastpirate
11-23-2008, 08:06 PM
I've eaten there before; good beers and food. Weird atmosphere though. When we were there, it was really quiet. Maybe it was just the night we were there.

It's always dead there.

Go to Barrio Cafe if you want high end fusion, bomb-ass house margaritas. Or hit up Rito's/Carolina's during the week if you want cheap Mexican.

Bars downtown: Hit up the Roosevelt, good food and great brews. Lost Leaf for beer, Carly's for food and beer (last time I was there $2 Stellas, on a Friday?! Score!), Fate for asian and bombers, Rose and Crown at Heritage Square for fish and chips and beer, Majerle's on a Friday night for a Suns home game is the spot.

More north: Sonora Brewery, Rosie McCaffreys (much better than Seamus), Padre's (latin and mojitos), Armadillo Grill for cheap eats and drink specials, the Rokery for wine, CJ O'Talleys for come crunk ass dive bar action (right next to Richardson's), Swizzle Inn for cheap beer and great jukebox, Aunt Chilada's is hopping for happy hour on Thurs and Fri, also hit up Zoe's Kitchen for great food near 16th St and Camelback or 7th Ave and McDowell.

Downtown and Central Corridor are my spots.

LooseAtTheZoo
11-23-2008, 09:12 PM
It's always dead there.

Go to Barrio Cafe if you want high end fusion, bomb-ass house margaritas. Or hit up Rito's/Carolina's during the week if you want cheap Mexican.

Bars downtown: Hit up the Roosevelt, good food and great brews. Lost Leaf for beer, Carly's for food and beer (last time I was there $2 Stellas, on a Friday?! Score!), Fate for asian and bombers, Rose and Crown at Heritage Square for fish and chips and beer, Majerle's on a Friday night for a Suns home game is the spot.

More north: Sonora Brewery, Rosie McCaffreys (much better than Seamus), Padre's (latin and mojitos), Armadillo Grill for cheap eats and drink specials, the Rokery for wine, CJ O'Talleys for come crunk ass dive bar action (right next to Richardson's), Swizzle Inn for cheap beer and great jukebox, Aunt Chilada's is hopping for happy hour on Thurs and Fri, also hit up Zoe's Kitchen for great food near 16th St and Camelback or 7th Ave and McDowell.

Downtown and Central Corridor are my spots.

Rosies is awesome. They treat you like family there, especially the Irish grandma who just kind of roams around taking orders and bringing you free drinks.

kroqken
11-24-2008, 01:51 AM
602 > 480> 623

LooseAtTheZoo
11-24-2008, 05:21 AM
602 > 480> 623

Don't come in here too.

faxman75
11-24-2008, 06:05 AM
602 > 480> 623

You've obviously never been to phoenix Ken. 602=480=623=meth

locachica73
11-24-2008, 06:05 AM
Rosies is awesome. They treat you like family there, especially the Irish grandma who just kind of roams around taking orders and bringing you free drinks.

I have only been to Rosies once but it was a great time, although it was a Friday night and the place was so packed you could barely walk around. That stressed me out a bit but everything else was great.

faxman75
11-24-2008, 07:18 AM
What page is the info for Friday on? I give up. I looked at the last 5 pages or so....well skimmed. Anyway, where at and what time? :)

locachica73
11-24-2008, 07:27 AM
It was around 139. I know there is talk about Chelsies and I believe that is where was decided. I am not sure on times though.

faxman75
11-24-2008, 07:29 AM
Nothing but strip clubs and band talk on that page.....

locachica73
11-24-2008, 07:46 AM
we are booked for 8pm at the chealsea's place on friday, the 28th. only place they had was the front patio. reservation is under "ivy". see you all there!

whooo hooo I found it. :)

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 07:47 AM
PHOENIX THREAD COACHELLA BOARD CELEBRATES THANKSGIVING WITH MEAT, POTATOES AND BEER!

when: friday, november 28th @ 8:00 PM
where: gordon biersch (http://www.gordonbiersch.com/restaurants/index.php?pg=location&sub=loc&location_id=10). reservation is under "audra" (map of the 5th street & mill avenue area (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=420+South+Mill+Ave+Suite+201+Tempe,+AZ+85281++%0 9))
how much: MAKE THINGS EASY & BRING FUCKING CASH (menu) (http://www.gordonbiersch.com/resources/pdf/menu_GBTM_GD_ST_SC_071808.pdf) roughly $9-$30 for an entree
who's going:


chairmenmeow47
RotationSlimWang
captncrzy
Somewhat Damaged
amyzzz
jacob
faxman75
Mr. Dylanja
locachica73


***EDIT*** THIS HAS BEEN UPDATED, NEW LOCATION AS OF 11/25

see you all friday :)

downingthief
11-24-2008, 07:52 AM
PHOENIX THREAD COACHELLA BOARD CELEBRATES THANKSGIVING WITH MEAT, POTATOES AND BEER!

when: friday, november 28th @ 8:00 PM
where: chelsea's kitchen (http://www.chelseaskitchenaz.com/) (map of the 40th street & camelback area (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl))
how much: MAKE THINGS EASY & BRING FUCKING CASH (menu) (http://www.chelseaskitchenaz.com/menu.html) $12-$17 for an entree
who's going:


chairmenmeow47
RotationSlimWang
captncrzy
Somewhat Damaged
amyzzz
jacob
faxman75
Mr. Dylanja
locachica73


see you all friday :)

I will be there in spirit. Get drunk and be merry!

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 07:53 AM
I will be there in spirit. Get drunk and be merry!

we shall miss you and your wife for sure, she's so friendly!!! :)

faxman75
11-24-2008, 08:09 AM
Perfect. Thank you :)

faxman75
11-24-2008, 08:12 AM
Is there a dress code? Should I avoid shorts and a tshirt?

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 08:19 AM
i think you'll be fine, but i'll let jen make the final call on that since she's been there. jesus christ, people wear shorts and tee-shirts to the theatre out here, so can't be too crazy of a dress code, lol.

locachica73
11-24-2008, 08:21 AM
Although if I remember right we will be sitting outside in an area that doesn't have a fire so if they don't have the propane heaters you might want to bring a sweater or something.

faxman75
11-24-2008, 08:22 AM
I'm ok either way. Just don't want to stand out so i'll probably stick with khaki's and a polo shirt or some shit. :)

RotationSlimWang
11-24-2008, 08:46 AM
When is Tom going to show up to one of these shindigs?

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 08:48 AM
tom met up with us at rula bula, he just has family obligations this time around :)

faxman75
11-24-2008, 08:49 AM
Tom was at our Rula Bula gathering.

Mr. Dylanja
11-24-2008, 08:52 AM
Just don't want to stand out so i'll probably stick with khaki's and a polo shirt or some shit. :)

Just be sure to wear that lil thing I like, Faxy.


When is Tom going to show up to one of these shindigs?

Tom will show up when it's at Luby's Cafeteria.

locachica73
11-24-2008, 08:54 AM
Hey, Luby's is very serious out here in old folks land. Meatloaf and instant potatoes. YUM

faxman75
11-24-2008, 08:55 AM
Just be sure to wear that lil thing I like, Faxy.



It's not detachable you know..... pfft

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 08:56 AM
awww, Mr. Dylanja made a funny :p

i watched the savages this weekend and the beginning part was filmed in sun city, right by my parents, lol.

captncrzy
11-24-2008, 09:25 AM
Why wouldn't those effers take a reservation for the back patio?

chairmenmeow47
11-24-2008, 09:29 AM
Why wouldn't those effers take a reservation for the back patio?

because the front patio was all that was available.

mountmccabe
11-24-2008, 10:23 AM
It's always dead there.

Not true. I've showed up at Sonora Brewhouse and had to wait for a table.



Go to Barrio Cafe if you want high end fusion, bomb-ass house margaritas. Or hit up Rito's/Carolina's during the week if you want cheap Mexican.

Bars downtown: Hit up the Roosevelt, good food and great brews. Lost Leaf for beer, Carly's for food and beer (last time I was there $2 Stellas, on a Friday?! Score!), Fate for asian and bombers, Rose and Crown at Heritage Square for fish and chips and beer, Majerle's on a Friday night for a Suns home game is the spot.

Carolina's is awesome food. I love it.

The Lost Leaf is cool but lack of anything on tap mitigates that somewhat. Carly's is a fantastic place; I love their food and they have great beer on tap. Fate is a cool place though I've just had drinks, never eaten there though it should be noted that it gets cold at night in Phoenix now and Fate is almost all outside so dress warmly.

That being said all of these places are further south than requested and, honestly, given the description of his friends and where they'd like to eat/drink/hang none of these places (except Majerle's, which he mentioned they'd been to before) are appropriate suggestions.


More north: Sonora Brewery, Rosie McCaffreys (much better than Seamus), Padre's (latin and mojitos), Armadillo Grill for cheap eats and drink specials, the Rokery for wine, CJ O'Talleys for come crunk ass dive bar action (right next to Richardson's), Swizzle Inn for cheap beer and great jukebox, Aunt Chilada's is hopping for happy hour on Thurs and Fri, also hit up Zoe's Kitchen for great food near 16th St and Camelback or 7th Ave and McDowell.

Downtown and Central Corridor are my spots.

Rosie McCaffreys is a good suggestion, Padre's is great but probably a little on the expensive side; same with Aunt Chilada's. I don't know most of those other places (other than Sonora Brewhouse, as discussed above.)

Oh, yeah, I ate at Zoe's on 7th Ave and McDowell after seeing Ubu Roi and the food was boring and did not sit well. I felt pretty crappy last night. It's a cute place but I'm not going back.

PC-2 Violence
11-24-2008, 10:27 AM
If I crash for drinks, is it going to fuck up/bump you guys into gratuity included?

faxman75
11-24-2008, 10:31 AM
I have no idea but just play it loose. Walk in, stop at the bar, order and pay for a drink and come out and bullshit with us. I don't see that being an issue.

TomAz
11-24-2008, 10:52 AM
***EDIT*** thanks to loca for reminding us that we're sitting at the front patio, so dress warm to be safe

Current forecast for Friday: A few showers. High 66, Low 52.

Mr. Dylanja
11-24-2008, 10:55 AM
Way to rain on the parade, Tom.

TomAz
11-24-2008, 11:12 AM
oh, there's going to be a parade?!

amyzzz
11-24-2008, 11:14 AM
I'm out if it's raining. Fuck that.

captncrzy
11-24-2008, 11:15 AM
because the front patio was all that was available.

Those buttholes. I don't think there's a fireplace out there on the front patio...if it's gonna be cold, maybe it's better to sit inside.

faxman75
11-24-2008, 11:34 AM
you people act like you're too highclass to get one of these going if need be....





















http://hallockpottery.com/resources/_wsb_450x338_fire4.jpg

locachica73
11-24-2008, 11:53 AM
That was my Friday.

bakersfield
11-24-2008, 09:20 PM
Has anyone been to Pizza A Metro at Thomas & I-17?
It is a hole in the wall (Circle K strip mall) that I heard was incredible.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 05:47 AM
No I haven't but I have been to Phoenix House Of Pizza which is down on 48th Street and Van Buren, same kind of place, hole next to a circle k and laundromat and they have fabulous pizza as well.

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 06:38 AM
all this discussion about the front patio would have been a lot more helpful when i originally announced that was all they had available, lol.

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 06:51 AM
Sorry.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 06:54 AM
I am not too worried about the cold, I am sure they have propane heaters. But the rain might make it a bit uncomfortable.

TomAz
11-25-2008, 06:57 AM
now they are saying the rain will be gone by Friday.

http://www.kimrichter.com/Blog/uploaded_images/Percy-791045.jpg

locachica73
11-25-2008, 07:02 AM
It is sprinkling right now out in Sun City, I had to close my sun roof. So chances of it still raining on Friday are very slim.

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 07:06 AM
now they are saying the rain will be gone by Friday.

http://www.kimrichter.com/Blog/uploaded_images/Percy-791045.jpg

Thanks for clearing that up, Tom.

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 07:37 AM
it's not a big deal, it's just that the front patio was ALL that was available, which means we can't change the reservation to sit inside as inside is not an option. so if someone else wants to find a reservation for 9 somewhere else, have at it. otherwise, unfortunatley the front patio is our only choice. hopefully the rain will be gone like tom said at least.

amyzzz
11-25-2008, 08:28 AM
If there's no rain, I'm back in. :)

downingthief
11-25-2008, 08:44 AM
If there's no rain, I'm back in. :)

Why do you not like the rain, Amy?

amyzzz
11-25-2008, 08:46 AM
I don't like the rain on me while I'm eating. Do you?

downingthief
11-25-2008, 08:59 AM
I don't like the rain on me while I'm eating. Do you?

Sure. It's quite liberating.

amyzzz
11-25-2008, 09:04 AM
This would be cold rain though. It's November.

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 09:05 AM
We can go wherever; I don't really care.

Since those that are going are mostly east-siders, we can hit someplace like Gordon Bierch on Mill-that's american food. Or The Rose and Crown downtown.

I brought up Chelsea's only because of that killer back patio. It was alsoo 90 degrees outside and I couldn't fathom it being cold on Friday.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 09:07 AM
You're kidding me. We are starting over? We are ditching this place because it might rain? What state am I in again? Chance of rain on any given day despite the weather report.....slim to none.

Alright ladies, let us know what you all decide. lolz

amyzzz
11-25-2008, 09:09 AM
I really don't care where we go, but I don't know about starting all over again. I can always wear a jacket.

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 09:11 AM
What do you mean, starting all over again? It's not like we're there and leaving.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 09:12 AM
Umm some of us are here and getting cold waiting!

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 09:16 AM
if someone wants to get a reservation for 9 people somewhere else, i'm open to that. i'm ok with the cold though at chelsea's as long as there's no rain. i just don't want to walk-in somewhere with 9 people on black friday.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 09:18 AM
I will continue checking back and where ever you all decide I will be there with bells on, and a sweater. I find that trying to get 9 people to agree on anything and getting out somewhere is like trying to herd cats. Thank you Ivy for being the social coordinator, I know how frustrating it can be.

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 09:25 AM
no problem. if i hadn't been so freaking sick lately i probably would have put more thought into trying to find another place or something. it sucks cause after all that talk about choosing a restaraunt, i'm not even really going to be able to enjoy my food since i can't have dairy, which is like half my diet, lol. and i can't eat much without feeling sick right now. corn.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 09:29 AM
Smoke a bowl before eating and you will feel fine. I have been having some stomach issues lately myself and found that smoking a little pot helps.

If you're looking for steak and potatoes then might I suggest Four Peaks Brewery, they have a very wide range of food from steak to pasta to good appetizers and so on. It is central Tempe and I know we were going to try to hit that place last time but it wasn't close enough to the venue that you all were heading to. If you want I can call and see if there is a reservation if everyone agrees. Or we can just stick with Chelseas and hope for no rain.

amyzzz
11-25-2008, 09:38 AM
I'm open to it, loca.

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 09:49 AM
if you can actually get a table at four peaks i'm all for it. it's kinda hard to get a table there on a weekend though since it's so small.

and i've had a stomach parasite, loca. while smoke helps, it's a long recovery for me regardless.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 09:52 AM
They do not take reservations but will do their best to accomadate your party. I guess I should have called prior to bringing it up... Sorry.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:02 AM
My only other thought is The Yardhouse on Scottsdale Road & Camelback, I know they do reservations because I go there each year for my birthday. They only do reservations for 10 or more but we could make it for 10 and then say someone didn't show up. Other then that I am cool with wherever.

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 10:03 AM
Tom's probably doing his rain dance as we speak....

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 10:04 AM
i think everyone sounded ok with the yardhouse so try that.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:09 AM
OK I quit, they don't make reservations after 7 pm on Fridays or Saturdays. Phoenix Sucks. Dumb Dumb Dumb

PC-2 Violence
11-25-2008, 10:10 AM
Ill bring the mistletoe.

PC-2 Violence
11-25-2008, 10:11 AM
OK I quit, they don't make reservations after 7 pm on Fridays or Saturdays. Phoenix Sucks. Dumb Dumb Dumb

Scottsdale. It is also a restaurant at the mall...on black Friday...

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 10:11 AM
Chica, steal the company card and treat us all to Donovan's!!

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:14 AM
Scottsdale. It is also a restaurant at the mall...on black Friday...

Very good point, what was I thinking.


Chica, steal the company card and treat us all to Donovan's!!

Damn I wish. I have never been there but have heard some good things. My company did take my department out to Top of The Rock once, I had pecan crusted chilean sea bass. It was damn near orgasmic.

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Rick and I can get to Four Peaks early and get a table....

PC-2 Violence
11-25-2008, 10:22 AM
Haha I bet if you asked Fax, he would say just go with the flow. Everyone will be happy to see each other and the situation combined with the personalities will provide the good times.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:23 AM
I was thinking the same thing. I have nothing else going on that day so I wouldn't mind getting there early and having a couple beers to losen up before everyone else arrives. Apparently last time I came off as shy.... WEIRD

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 10:24 AM
Let's just do Four Peaks then. It's more our speed anyway. We'll get there around 7.
1340 E 8th St Tempe AZ

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 10:25 AM
I'll be there at noon.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 10:26 AM
Sounds good.

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 10:26 AM
four peaks i don't think will seat you without most of your party present, so i'm not sure how that would work. they get really busy on most any night, so i can't imagine how black friday will be. also, there's still the possibility we will be outside considering half the seating is patio and the inside isn't really "closed" as there are no doors.

if that's what people want to do though i'm fine with that since i'm down the street from four peaks. it's not a good restaurant for waiting around though unless you can belly up to the bar or enjoy standing outside the restaurant because no matter where you are, you're generally in the way at four peaks, lol.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 10:28 AM
Boston Market?









yes...i post mostly for my own entertainment

captncrzy
11-25-2008, 10:31 AM
four peaks i don't think will seat you without most of your party present, so i'm not sure how that would work. they get really busy on most any night, so i can't imagine how black friday will be. also, there's still the possibility we will be outside considering half the seating is patio and the inside isn't really "closed" as there are no doors.

if that's what people want to do though i'm fine with that since i'm down the street from four peaks. it's not a good restaurant for waiting around though unless you can belly up to the bar or enjoy standing outside the restaurant because no matter where you are, you're generally in the way at four peaks, lol.

Yeah, but I figure if we get there at seven and tell them "party of nine", it'll be a good hour before the table is ready. I'm also thinking it might not be too bad since it's near ASU and a lot of students go home for Thanksgiving.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 10:33 AM
I'm also thinking it might not be too bad since it's near ASU and a lot of students go home for Thanksgiving.

Not "those" students. They were raised by wolves. A scary bunch of ruffians.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:33 AM
Actually the few times I have been there it was packed during happy hour and reverse happy hour at 10 but in between it slowed down quite a bit. I will plan on being there around 7 as well that way we might have a better chance of getting to sit down.

Hey Mr D. Care to carpool since we are neighbors and all?

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 10:34 AM
Are you asking me for a ride, Loca?

chairmenmeow47
11-25-2008, 10:35 AM
if people want to go to four peaks really badly, i'm ok with that even if we might be outside since it's close to me. i just don't want to wait around for a table to open. the bar area gets really crowded, so if you can't get an actual seat at the bar to wait, you're better off standing out in front of the restaurant where you can't have drinks.

and did anyone try to make a reservation? i know i had a friend who made one recently, but she used to work there so that might have made a difference.

faxman75
11-25-2008, 10:35 AM
Dylan, I knew you would cheat on me.

locachica73
11-25-2008, 10:35 AM
Nah I was gonna drive, but parking there sucks so I was gonna see if you wanted to ride together, but if not no biggie.

Mr. Dylanja
11-25-2008, 10:36 AM
I say we all order in at the same time and chat in this thread while we eat!